Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

[Arjun]

For BJP cadres and BJP voters outside of the cow belt, I would estimate 85%+ for Modi...Cowbelt needs more analysis and is also crucial for win/loss scenario. The sooner the sentiment in the cow belt starts matching the rest of the nation - the better it would be for the country.

[VikramS]

sanku You are creating as strawman.

Local leaders are looking for someone who is can bring in voters and excite the cadres. You have to be truly died in the wool loh-purush fan if you feel that he excites the cadre. There may be some pockets where Namo may polarize the anti NaMo vote. But reverse polarization can be an easily as powerful.

Good thing is that NaMo has a governance recored to run on; he does not need the Hinduvta platform. Loh Purush has nothing but Hinduvta he has one forsaken.

There are many pieces in the chain but they roll over the pulley. If the pulley is well-oiled and smooth, the chain rolls. If the pulley is rusted the chain gets stuck.

[Sanku]

sanku You are creating as strawman..

I am afraid you have not understood me, which is ok, but I do not like your attitude of lack of willingness to listen and engage, at least that is what I percieve.

Good thing is that NaMo has a governance recored to run on; he does not need the Hinduvta platform. Loh Purush has nothing but Hinduvta he has one forsaken.

I think the above betrays your mindset, I am afraid you are going to be disappointed, as are those who expect Modi to be ONLY hindutva or bust.

That is why it is important to understand the nuances and not be either or.

Local leaders are looking for someone who is can bring in voters and excite the cadres.

Yes, but they are NOT only looking for that, they are looking for what would be their role and responsibility pre elections, the rewards post election. They are looking at how well they are connected to the leader, how much of the message they understand, how much alignment is there, what needs to be done to get alignment.

All this does take time. Its not that Modi will one day auto-magically telepath himself into the minds of each prabhari, each district officer and each booth manager -- this alignment will both take time and happen through chain of command starting at Delhi.

Maino is not in charge because she wins or because the cadre love her, she is in charge because she controls the congress from the top totally. While congress may not be exactly like BJP, but some things are constant in all parties and all organizational structures.

Further more, even assuming Modi can bring in voters, a big assumption right now, Modi can not be everywhere, a typical political party needs to reach out to electorate in rallies of 10-20 thousands, multiple such rallies, and local outreach programs. That is what brings voters to the booth. Modi is not a magic pill who will be everywhere and anywhere. Local leaders have a huge role to play and have their task cut out.

A national leader is ONLY a force multiplier, and while the force multiplier is important, they key is efficiency of the basic forces and how well the force multiplier is plugged into the system.

There is no point having a Gee whiz billion dollar AWACS if all you have is a handful of 70s mig 21 with no data link. You might be better off with a spotter plane.

The example is to illustrate that a single factor, golden bullet wont magically work, things are complicated and the full picture needs to be looked at.

There may be some pockets where Namo may polarize the anti NaMo vote. But reverse polarization can be an easily as powerful.

Numbers numbers numbers, all is only numbers.

[Neela]

Narendra Modi’s Patel test

An important piece of history. Patel also needs to take a share of the blame for allowing Nehru to be foisted by Gandhi via blatant illegality. A failure of judgment on the part of Patel, for which the nation is paying a very heavy price.

So Gandhi and Nehru pull the rug under Patel & it is then Patel's fault. You have now gone Paki with lahori logic.

[Pranav]

So Gandhi and Nehru pull the rug under Patel & it is then Patel's fault. You have now gone Paki with lahori logic.

The question is whether Patel realized that it was not merely a matter of the rug being pulled out from under him, but a crime against national interest. Secondly, whether he did everything within his power to prevent that crime against the nation. One can certainly learn from people's mistakes, even if their good intentions are not being doubted.

[Virupaksha]

Patel had the example of SCB before him. If he had protested, he would been thrown out by Gandhi-Nehru nexus. Remember even being the president of congress and overwhelming support of congress majority wasnt enough to stop that nexus.

Thank god that Patel did what he did. If he had protested and had been left out in cold like SCB, we wouldnt have been 1 nation with problems in kashmir, we would have been 550 nations.

[Hari Seldon]

Clearly Modi is moving ahead at his own pace, seemingly assured that he will be the de facto if not the de jure PM candidate from the BJP side.

Nomination to the head of the campaign committee will give NM a veto on ticket distribution and there lies the crux - it allows NM to build up his own base among elected reps in the LS, yes, but also down the line in the state assemblies.

NM can go easy on MP, Goa, Rajasthan and Chattisgarh for campaigning as they already have strong CMs (CM candidates). Opportunity is highest IMO in MH, UP, Asom, Odisha and Maybe Telengana part of AP. Would absolutely love it if NM in his personal capacity takes time out to visit the kamakhya shrine in Asom, the Tirumala shrine in AP, Vaishno in Jammu and yes, the biggie itself - RJB in UP during his outreach and campaigning process.

[Sanku]

the biggie itself - RJB in UP during his outreach and campaigning process.

Excellent suggestion Hari ji.

[Adrija]

Sanku, your persistence in creating FUD is admirable, but not sure what your agenda is....

Are you saying that the cadre prefers Advani over Modi? That goes against all evidence on the ground, including recorded most recently in the BJP National Convention

Yes, but they are NOT only looking for that, they are looking for what would be their role and responsibility pre elections, the rewards post election. They are looking at how well they are connected to the leader, how much of the message they understand, how much alignment is there, what needs to be done to get alignment.

And THIS is why the BJP should not annoint Modi? This is a natural process once a party comes to power (any party), but it has to come to power in the first place

All this does take time. Its not that Modi will one day auto-magically telepath himself into the minds of each prabhari, each district officer and each booth manager -- this alignment will both take time and happen through chain of command starting at Delhi.

All the more reason to start NOW

So are you saying that BJP should not declare NM as primus inter pares, or that it should go into 2014 elections under LKA's leadership (with him implicitly being the PM candidate)?

LKA should publicly announce his retirement, and/ or at the very least make clear that he does not see himself as a PM candidate (even if he chooses to campaign). That is the least he owes the party, given that the BJP fought the last elections explicitly identifying him as their PM candidate.........rest is parkaalam.....it will happen..

My 2 np

[Hari Seldon]

from twitter, TIFWIW:

Albatrossinflight ‏@albatrossinfo 2m
This is #Brilliant by #NaMoinKar ; in Mangalore there is polarization & NaMo subtly raises #Hindu issues to help BJP electorally

#NaMoinKar Raises the issue of cow slaughter; "Congress promises free cow slaughter if voted to power in Karnataka".

Interesting conversation with people in Bangalore's Gandhi Bazaar area. #Karnataka election is now evenly poised. #Congress lost advantage.

#KarnatakaPolls Congress - 104, BJP - 48, JDS - 48, KJP - 14, Others - 10 as per #NDTV prediction based on ULB polls. Not feasible.

[Hari Seldon]

Deshabhakta ‏@Deshabhakta 4m
#NaMoInMlr now live on Suvarna News 24x7

[Hari Seldon]

was wondering how non-hindi speaking kannadigas will connect with NaMo in mangalore... here's the link... seems the channels are doing live translation as he is speaking...

http://www.istream.com/livetv/71/Suvarn ... %C2%ADNews

Suddenly live telecast was called off in the midle of the spech. Now this link is working.

http://news13.in/news13-live/

[Sriman]

was wondering how non-hindi speaking kannadigas will connect with NaMo in mangalore...

It'll be tough. My father had trouble keeping up. Anyway, the main impact will be for Loksabha elections. So it's good that he starts occupying mind space.

[Neela]

So Gandhi and Nehru pull the rug under Patel & it is then Patel's fault. You have now gone Paki with lahori logic.

The question is whether Patel realized that it was not merely a matter of the rug being pulled out from under him, but a crime against national interest. Secondly, whether he did everything within his power to prevent that crime against the nation. One can certainly learn from people's mistakes, even if their good intentions are not being doubted.

Sire, rich stuff, but what did you learn from Gandhi and Nehru overriding Patel? A rational argument must start with the cause and not the effect.
Do you realize that you are using the Torn shirt open fly argument here. You cannot deal with that & make a sick, pathetic attempt at rationalization and blaming it on Patel.

And no, you do not stop there. You now accuse of Patel of not doing enough to "prevent a crime against a nation". Well Patel stitched together 500 states and gave India its shape. He does not need no certificates from the likes of you who have , apart from just vocal claims of national interest, nothing to show of that caliber. Patel gave in for reasons no one knows. But that does not give you to wag your tongue like the way you did.

Criticism is fine but when you use warped Paki logic, you come out as a man incapable of discerning cause and effect. And when you start off with a false premise, your entire line of thought starts to become cringeworthy! Which is why you resort to platitudes like "one can certainly learn from mistakes" nonsense! Without cogent , clear and precise arguments, you start your ramble, which to be frank, is like a schoolboy debate!

[Sanku]

Sanku, your persistence in creating FUD is admirable, but not sure what your agenda is....

There is no FUD and there is agenda is to have a meaningful discussion and not a rediff level exchange.

If there is something you have to contribute there. Most welcome. However to do that you have to first make some effort from your side to understand what is being said.

If you wish to discuss what you think I said, you will have to find some one else, thank you very much, and oh also learn to how engage some one with civility.

[Sanku]

from twitter, TIFWIW:

#NaMoinKar Raises the issue of cow slaughter; "Congress promises free cow slaughter if voted to power in Karnataka".

Narendra Modi has been raising this issue very regularly, there is a central scheme to promote Beef exports, he has been speaking against that at a number of places as well.

[Sanku]

Modi in Mangalore: We need a Congress-free India

[RajeshA]

OT, but Yuddhistra already lost her. He gambled his wife away on a dice game. Who is the bigger idiot Karna or Yuddhistra.

OT, Once Yuddhishtra had lost himself in the game of dice, and thus become a slave, he had lost the right to wager Draupadi, even if one were to consider that a free husband possessed his wife!

[Muppalla]

Now live from Belgaum. Hitting bad at Sonia in this meet.

3:31 pm: Modi tells his Karnataka audience that the one good thing that Gujaratis did was to get rid of Congress. The development then happened due to the enterprising people of Gujarat. Modi raises the slogan of "Bharat mata kii jai" and ends his speech.


3:27 pm: Modi says Karnataka has to be saved and it has the potential to be greater than even Gujarat. He congratulates the BJP leadership in Karnataka and says rising prices are one issue facing the nation today. Sonia Gandhi spoke not a single word about rising prices despite her party promising to reduce prices. Sonia should have apologised to the people of Karnataka for failing to do so.


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3:24 pm: Modi calls Congress a party that believes in political untouchability. BJP, he says, has done its best to fill the holes Congress created. Till such time as Congress is in power, the nation can't be united and great. In order for us to reach our full potential, Congress must go. Modi says the first stage of this mission must come to fruition in Karnataka.


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3:20 pm: Modi says he believes that the people of Karnataka will not make the mistake of handing their State over to Congress.


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3:19 pm: Modi asks his audience if they want the ills of Delhi brought into Karnataka. He says no matter how angry a family member is with his family, he or she never sets fire to his house. Modi then asks his audience that even if they are angry with him for some reason, they should not take the anger out on their own State. Delhi is home to Congress arrogance and should never be given charge of Karnataka.


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3:16 pm: Modi says that when a Kerala Minister came to meet him, he was asked to explain his conduct by Congress leadership. But the same Congress leadership says nothing and does nothing when Pakistani terrorists enter our territory and behead our soldiers.


3:13 pm: Modi asks his audience if they feel safe under the UPA. His audience says no. He asks them to withdraw support and let the Government sink.


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3:09 pm: Modi says Congress has no interest in good governance. They have politicised all Constitutional bodies and subverted the system for their own ends. CBI, for example, is being misused for purposes of political vendetta. Modi says that the ditches that Congress has dug, will be the party's death.


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3:07 pm: Modi speaks of the Government's policy paralysis and asks Manmohan Singh about the solar energy policy that his Government brought. Modi congratulates Jagadish Shettar for enabling a solar power infrastructure in Karnataka and making it self-reliant.




3:02 pm: Narendra Modi tells his audience that it does not behove Congress to talk about corruption. It was the Congress which shamed the nation by committing corruption in the Commonwealth Games. Sonia Gandhi asks where the Central funds given to Karnataka went. Modi asks where is all the tax money paid by Karnataka to Dilli sarkar

[Muppalla]

Narendra Modi has been raising this issue very regularly, there is a central scheme to promote Beef exports, he has been speaking against that at a number of places as well.

There is a specific reason for raising it in KA. The BJP government banned cow slaughter. One of the CM candidates of INC Siddhiramaiah promised to lift the ban as soon as they come to power.

[Pranav]

The question is whether Patel realized that it was not merely a matter of the rug being pulled out from under him, but a crime against national interest. Secondly, whether he did everything within his power to prevent that crime against the nation. One can certainly learn from people's mistakes, even if their good intentions are not being doubted.

Sire, rich stuff, but what did you learn from Gandhi and Nehru overriding Patel? A rational argument must start with the cause and not the effect.
Do you realize that you are using the Torn shirt open fly argument here. You cannot deal with that & make a sick, pathetic attempt at rationalization and blaming it on Patel.

And no, you do not stop there. You now accuse of Patel of not doing enough to "prevent a crime against a nation". Well Patel stitched together 500 states and gave India its shape. He does not need no certificates from the likes of you who have , apart from just vocal claims of national interest, nothing to show of that caliber. Patel gave in for reasons no one knows. But that does not give you to wag your tongue like the way you did.

Criticism is fine but when you use warped Paki logic, you come out as a man incapable of discerning cause and effect. And when you start off with a false premise, your entire line of thought starts to become cringeworthy! Which is why you resort to platitudes like "one can certainly learn from mistakes" nonsense! Without cogent , clear and precise arguments, you start your ramble, which to be frank, is like a schoolboy debate!

Neela ji, as far as one can decipher from your garbled outpourings, you have not refuted any of the 3 sentences I wrote, in the post you are quoting. You are welcome to try again, being more precise this time.

[Neela]

^^^
Pranav,
Have a look at other threads! Sense the tone!
Stop embarrassing yourself.

[member_20317]

Modi in Mangalore: We need a Congress-free India

With that kind of attendance in a 6 lac population town, there could be a danger of BJP undershooting in the campaign. All of us have virtually written off Karnataka.

Dakshin Kanada is expected to be a BJP stronghold kya?

[Sriman]

With that kind of attendance in a 6 lac population town, there could be a danger of BJP undershooting in the campaign. All of us have virtually written off Karnataka.
Dakshin Kanada is expected to be a BJP stronghold kya?

Yes and it's also more of an ideological stronghold as well. BJP's presence in KA was mainly in Dakshina Kannada for a long time.

[Muppalla]

Sanku ji and others who have apprehensions about Bihar and Muslim votes - This is the second poll in two years by LensOnNews. The only way one can live in self-denial is by blaming GVL. The strong arguments will be he failed in some of his previous surveys and big one being 2009.

Split with Nitish will only boost BJP in Bihar: LensOnNews Poll

With the BJP seemingly decided on projecting Narendra Modi as its PM candidate and its close ally Nitish Kumar of JD(U) equally firm in his opposition to the idea, a split in the NDA alliance looks inevitable; most observers think it’s not a question of if, but when.

Against this backdrop, a poll has been conducted by the popular news website LensOnNews.com to explore various scenarios: the outcome of the coming Lok Sabha election in Bihar if the NDA (the BJP-JDU combine) remains intact; secondly if the two allies were to part ways and the BJP and the JDU were to fight the elections separately; and thirdly if the JDU were to join Congress/UPA in a pre-poll alliance to fight a Narendra Modi-led BJP.

The survey findings show that the BJP would be a big gainer in terms of its individual tally should the NDA alliance break up. And the Janata Dal (United) stands to get routed in Lok Sabha polls should it decide to go alone.

The LensOnNews survey was conducted among a representative cross-sectional sample of 2400 voters in 10 parliamentary constituencies of Bihar from 18th to 24th April 2013. The poll findings carry a margin of error of four per cent.

There is a clear trend line from 2009 onwards showing increasing popular support for the BJP in Bihar at the expense of other parties including its own ally the JDU. Thus the BJP’s vote share increased from 14 per cent in the Lok Sabha poll of 2009 to 16.5 per cent in the assembly elections of 2010, while the JDU’s vote share declined from 24 per cent to 22 per cent; the vote share of RJD/LJP declined marginally from 26 to 25.5 per cent; and that of Congress went down from 10.3 to 8.4 per cent.

The findings of the LenOnNews poll are consistent with this trend, showing the BJP increasing its vote share further to 31 per cent if it fights the coming Lok Sabha elections on its own – due to ‘the Modi factor’. This is the ground reality when Narendra Modi has not held even a single rally in Bihar, nay has not even set foot in Bihar. There is every reason to think that when he starts campaigning in earnest it will only consolidate and further strengthen BJP’s position in the state.

[muraliravi]

No avail Muppalla ji, sanku ji just does not see any advantage of modi over advani. He will say that with advani as pm nominee if bjp goes alond in bihar they will get all 40. By the way this survey says that for modi as pm in bihar bjp gets 31%. This is the same % in 3 other independent surveys, ndtv, india today and i forgot the 3 rd.

I am sure the cadre will reject the concept if advani quite outrightly.

[Yagnasri]

I think NaMo should spend more time in Karnataka - Win or lose he will be remembered when Lok Sabha elections come. It will familiarise him to the people of Karnataka. Yaddi has to come down after May results or perish after that. May be we all lost hope on Karnataka Assembly a bit too soon.

[Muppalla]

No avail Muppalla ji, sanku ji just does not see any advantage of modi over advani. He will say that with advani as pm nominee if bjp goes alond in bihar they will get all 40. By the way this survey says that for modi as pm in bihar bjp gets 31%. This is the same % in 3 other independent surveys, ndtv, india today and i forgot the 3 rd.

I am sure the cadre will reject the concept if advani quite outrightly.

Advani is only a content for discussion. He is not even in consideration inside BJP per every meet brief. Few prominent RSS/VHP leaders are actually anti-Advani even though they are not that cool to pro-Modi. There is no competition or democratic voting and it is a near unanimity that is scaring the old timers inside the party.

[member_20317]

I think NaMo should spend more time in Karnataka - Win or lose he will be remembered when Lok Sabha elections come. It will familiarise him to the people of Karnataka. Yaddi has to come down after May results or perish after that. May be we all lost hope on Karnataka Assembly a bit too soon.

If BJP and Yaddi, both remain around ==, after the results then there could be a chance of Modi bringing back Yaddi. In the process political capital of LKA would be grievously damaged.

Just thinking out aloud.

[SwamyG]

Disha: like you I too consider what I know and have read is very small, and there is a lot more in this world. I follow the poetess Avaiyar's philosophy when it comes to knowledge. I understand that argument about who lost whom first, and I do have read my epics as much as possible. My point is Karna was a complex character, and MB cannot be easily parsed in to black and white. Anyway OT. Maybe again in nukkad or off topic some other time .

[panduranghari]

The irony is that American foreign policy vis.a.vis India is now limited to and played by a extremely small group of deracinated Indians and the terrorist Islamic republic of Pakistan.

It is blessing in disguise.

Quite right.

Modi has made a certain section of population identify themselves as Anti-Nationals. He never forced them to, but the desh drohis just did that. Now that these clowns have put their heads above the parapet, sharp shooters can take them down.

[panduranghari]

Without NaMo BJP will not even get to three digits

Thats not accurate and you know it. The better way to put it is, with Modi the chances of BJP getting more than 200 are higher but without him the chances of sub 200 are higher.

[SwamyG]

Another of those silly gut feelings, methinks if Modi eventually is projected as the PM candidate.....BJP will take UP. There are pleasant surprises in store. But then it is INC...you never know what is its quiver.

[Muppalla]

Modi's address to merchant's body in Mumbai - Live

http://www.narendramodi.in/liveevent/social/

[RoyG]

Another of those silly gut feelings, methinks if Modi eventually is projected as the PM candidate.....BJP will take UP. There are pleasant surprises in store. But then it is INC...you never know what is its quiver.

You're right. I was listening to the Tavleen Singh show on Niticentral and she brought up a good point when conversing with Kanchan. There wouldn't be this many leaks happening regarding various scams if Congress had a good chance at winning the elections. Politicians and bureaucrats are trying to save themselves from any severe punishment before the government goes into election mode (I feel like mid year is inevitable before the string of assembly polls). Expect Sonia to go abroad for "medical treatment" for good. The only problem is everyone around her may not let her jump ship. She's in a really dangerous position. Ahmed Patel, her Chanakya, is currently in damage control mode because of SC judgment on Coalgate. Modi has to be extra careful.

[Sanku]

Sanku ji and others who have apprehensions about Bihar and Muslim votes - This is the second poll in two years by LensOnNews. The only way one can live in self-denial is by blaming GVL. The strong arguments will be he failed in some of his previous surveys and big one being 2009.

Split with Nitish will only boost BJP in Bihar: LensOnNews Poll

[/quote]

Thank you Muppalla ji, this is certainly useful and the first report that I have seen of this kind. murali-ji refers to three other surveys, but I don't know what or where they are.

On the question of how much credibility we can give to this survey -- given that GVL last mistake, I think this may be accepted prima facie but further work should be done to confirm the same.

[Manish_Sharma]

So Gandhi and Nehru pull the rug under Patel & it is then Patel's fault. You have now gone Paki with lahori logic.

The question is whether Patel realized that it was not merely a matter of the rug being pulled out from under him, but a crime against national interest. Secondly, whether he did everything within his power to prevent that crime against the nation. One can certainly learn from people's mistakes, even if their good intentions are not being doubted.

Well Patel stitched together 500 states and gave India its shape. He does not need no certificates from the likes of you who have , apart from just vocal claims of national interest, nothing to show of that caliber. Patel gave in for reasons no one knows. But that does not give you to wag your tongue like the way you did. [/quote]

Well said Neela ji, this slimey NACxlite pranav has been doing it everywhere for quite sometime.

1. Not answering how corrupt kejri stayed all the time in delhi avoiding every 3 years mandatory transfer, how corrupt kejri's corrupt wife continues in delhi avoiding any transfer. Did kejri get foreign funds for his ngo during his govt. job.

2. He wants Modi to break bjp if they don't allow him to be PM candidate. My suggestion pranav is much smarter than kejri so pranav should break aap and make a new party. pranav(Sh. Modi) - kejri (Sh. Advani)

3. Even in China thread he wants us to 'understand from chinese point of view' and 'end corruption' before taking on chinese.

4. And now even the greatest integrater of current Bharatvarsh is also tainted in his eyes.

5. Funny I never read him writing about growing menace of maoism-naxlism, I never read him taking on traitors CPI-M , who had supported china in 1962 and are supporting them upto this day.

6. Where is this bloody NACxlite corrupt khujliwal? Pranav has to provide khujliwal's take on current chinese intrusion as pranav is declared member of AAP!

[RoyG]

Once you win over the financial capital Mumbai the governance and security capital Delhi will be completely naked. UP is next. Congress is in snap count mode and political nukes will be flying soon.

Modi is now talking about military power. He is aiming for the top spot for sure. Advani should retire and go into meditation.

[SwamyG]

He is fvking awesome.....

1. beta, hamare pass be dum hain....
2. Statute of Unity.....
3. Skill....Speed.....Scale
4. tumare pass suraj hain ki nahin...

His idea is to make India really mahan......and wants the World to understand that....he understands human psychology and global politics/business well. he connects various dots.....it does not matter if he created those dots.

He has clean vision, goal.....and it is possible to implement. A rudderless vehicle will just meander.......Modiship definitely reaching different ports.

[manju]

was wondering how non-hindi speaking kannadigas will connect with NaMo in mangalore...

It'll be tough. My father had trouble keeping up. Anyway, the main impact will be for Loksabha elections. So it's good that he starts occupying mind space.

In Karnataka, many people if they have completed high school level education can comprehend Hindi decent enough to understand him, I think.

Many people living in cities, even if not literate/educated know/understand Hindi better.