Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 07 May 2013 21:57

Modi govt says food Bill against federal structure

http://m.indianexpress.com/news/modi-go ... re/881324/

disha · Post by **disha** » 07 May 2013 21:59

Well BRFites can be ahead of curve but at the end of the curve they fall down fall back into the human category. :ROFL:

Very effective campaign by IBNLive, no fotu of hugs, no 2 secs clip, just some twits and damage done! Are we so de-moralized? That we are staring at defeat when we are at cusp of victory?

Somebody mentioned the other day that with BJP loss in K'tka, BJP is down to governing only 2 states - MP and Guj and hence lost polity over India. Except Ktka, which is due to Yeddi's own ego and mismanagement from BJP, BJP on its own has more states than CongI, discounting NE and incl. Assam. Rest is all coalition or other regional parties. In short, a gain of even 5 more states at local/regional level does not count, since Indian voter is smart enough to think both locally and nationally (have seen that in various elections)., so KTK going CONgi way will not mean much (other than more money for electioneering in national elections).

disha · Post by **disha** » 07 May 2013 22:00

Excellent JohneeG

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 07 May 2013 22:02

disha wrote:
Sushupti wrote:
IBNLive is doing a hack job for CONgi. Sonia *never* hugged Sushma, she just put her hand on Sushma's shoulders to "talk about the FSB". IBNLive is using that opportunity to divide BJP. Very effective.

As per latest from Kanchan Da it was a media spin. So, my apologies.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 07 May 2013 22:29

Sushupti wrote: Refer to the Arun Shourie interview of 2010.

I like how you cherry pick facts to suite your agenda. For example, you will never mention that Arun Shourie also literally worshiped the ground ABV walked on? So Arun Shouries views become acceptable proof for one, but not for another? (It is another fact that you are still twisting what AS said into something else)

When bad mouthing BJP for a behavior, why not accept when Modi also does the exact same? (interacting with Muslims, running a secular government etc?) -- Why the imagined gaps between BJP and Modi and create wedges in BJP by cherry picking facts?

Here is something from Arun Shourie himself on the topic of honesty INC style and games press play, of paraphrasing, interpreting and such.
http://arunshourie.wordpress.com/catego ... -vajpayee/

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 07 May 2013 22:42

Sanku wrote:
Sushupti wrote: Refer to the Arun Shourie interview of 2010.
I like how you cherry pick facts to suite your agenda. For example, you will never mention that Arun Shourie also literally worshiped the ground ABV walked on? So Arun Shouries views become acceptable proof for one, but not for another? (It is another fact that you are still twisting what AS said into something else)

When bad mouthing BJP for a behavior, why not accept when Modi also does the exact same? (interacting with Muslims, running a secular government etc?) -- Why the imagined gaps between BJP and Modi and create wedges in BJP by cherry picking facts?

Here is something from Arun Shourie himself on the topic of honesty INC style and games press play, of paraphrasing, interpreting and such.
http://arunshourie.wordpress.com/catego ... -vajpayee/

I know that Shourie worships ABV. He was doing that as late as 2011 when 2G broke out. I never opposed ABV for lack of qualities. My problem with him is that he tried to build BJP in the image of Nehruvian ideals.Regarding Modi, when did we hear ABV calling for "Congress Mukt Bharat"?.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 07 May 2013 22:52

Sushupti wrote: I know that Shourie worships ABV. He was doing that as late as 2011 when 2G broke out. I never opposed ABV for lack of qualities. My problem with him is that he tried to build BJP in the image of Nehruvian ideals.Regarding Modi, when did we hear ABV calling for "Congress Mukt Bharat"?.

That is quite a bit of climb down from your usual name calling exercise of ABV, meanwhile, why would Shourie, a staunch anti Nehruvian support ABV if ABV was trying to make BJP in Nehruvian ideals?

ABV who tasked AS to dismantle the Lic, quota permit raj was a Nehruvian person?

I am speechless.

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ABV never called for Congress Mukt bharat because he thought he had achieved it already, and post 2004, he had never been in shape to push something.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 07 May 2013 23:18

disha wrote:Excellent JohneeG

++100

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 07 May 2013 23:54

Gujarat all set to create world’s largest manmade freshwater reservoir in the sea

http://www.narendramodi.in/gujarat-all- ... n-the-sea/

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 08 May 2013 01:17

Sonia reaches out to Sushma Swaraj as government fails to get food bill passed

http://www.hindustantimes.com/India-new ... 56308.aspx

vivek.rao · Post by **vivek.rao** » 08 May 2013 01:58

All sonia has to say to shushma is: you or Advani should be PM candidate. Sushma a will make a deal. That is how weak we are as a nation. Uncontrollable greed and ego.

muraliravi · Post by **muraliravi** » 08 May 2013 02:18

vivek.rao wrote:All sonia has to say to shushma is: you or Advani should be PM candidate. Sushma a will make a deal. That is how weak we are as a nation. Uncontrollable greed and ego.

Thats not going to happen. Modi is smart enough to have understood their wheeling-dealings. Thats why he did not even make statements like "We are not against the bill, but congress is using it for elections". He directly said that the bill is against India's federal structure. The delhi gang of BJP cant do much after such statements.

krisna · Post by **krisna** » 08 May 2013 02:26

SwamyG wrote:Theo Saar, I never knew one could arrive at the conclusion younarrived. My usage was to leave it up to the users to throw that article in the dust bin, or house it in the anti-Modi rant bin, shred it, dismiss it, shred it ityadi. The author has good credentials, and works in Gujarat. However, unfortunately for him Modi has not been found guilty in spite of all the efforts. Gujarat is doing good, is it the best ? I don't care, as long as its people are happy, prosperous and have justice.

Yup, I have noted that a lot happens because of Modi's efforts. Sometimes I too think if it is all authoritarianism. But then a man driving growth and progress, is better than another man just driving corruption, division, neglect and maintaining status quo.

not picking on you SwamyG, only detractors of NaMo talk about authoritanism. This is total BS in reality.
NaMo has done simply democratic ways of bringing work whereas c-system put authoritamnism at work as simple as that.

NaMo does not transfer people at will. His administartion normally gives 2-3 years or more for the offciers to show results. They are held accountable to the people they work. His main role is that of a facilitator-- makes simple rules and gives authority to the local officials to deal with the local problems. Local officials do not go to thier superiors or high command for orders(authoritarian C system). He works hard and make himself as an example. He is freely accessible to local leaders irrespective of party, openly transparent, gives his views with no enforcement of his views etc. He does not interfere in law and order unlike the c-system. He gives a free hand to the police. Hence the police have curbed goondas, criminals of all parties including his own party to a large extent.
----------------------------------------------------
Giving free hand to police is the prime reason that Godhra riots got convicted. No other riot in history of India have been convicted as in godhra. SIT from supreme court works with local officals who were given free hand by NaMo. SIT cannot do anything if local officals/politicans scr*w the things. Remember other riots have had very poor record in conviction.
There are no riots in Gujarat due to freed police by NaMo. That is the plain truth.
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many of his talks are peppered with statements that same files same officals same police etc work wonders in Gujarat precisely becasue of sense of participation in the community, pride in work and welfare of people. He makes it as it is their work and not his. he always attributes it to people and not himself. He says numerou times in his decade long CMship-- he wants to strenghten grassroots democracy, make people activelky particpate in it to make things work, not cry and go to politicans which create entrenched communities/vote banks.
His detractors make it as he is selling himself.

He is the most democratic of all leaders we have in India.

All his detractors say "he is authoritan" "dictator" without any examples.
he is a cut above the rest.
he is the shining star amongst the worst politicans.

krisna · Post by **krisna** » 08 May 2013 02:37

vivek.rao wrote:All sonia has to say to shushma is: you or Advani should be PM candidate. Sushma a will make a deal. That is how weak we are as a nation. Uncontrollable greed and ego.

dili billi are close to powers to be in dilli.
it is on record of old man's protege that they only fight in parliament but friends outside. AJ and SS are good parliamentarians that is it, but not enough. old man is demented type with grand delusions now. AK is hedging his bets now that his power base in KA is shaky, may become chameleon. he is the weakest of dilli billi more amenable to NaMo.
If old man goes then SS and AJ will have to change. old man has lot of influence across political spectrum, also due to NaMo factor.

They are soft on termite party correctly pointed by Jethmalani.

krisna · Post by **krisna** » 08 May 2013 02:51

^^^^
continuing on the above 2 posts of mine,
NaMo does brings political tsunami to the well entrenched c system of congress.

By bringing peoples participation, local officials are held accountable to them and not to high command. authoritarism is curbed.
Transfers of officals are reduced to minimum, local officlas held accountable to local people. thay have to be tarnsparent and work for the. they have to define policies for short and long term which are doable, not political grandstanding for votes as in election time.
corruption is reduced due to transparency, no transfers for political favors, free police, vigilant people due to grasroots democracy support.
crime will be reduced due to free police, non interference in police matters.
no appeasement of any sections of the society

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other areas which he excels are ideas and vision which he exhibits in numerous speeches which is out of box ones-- all are eminently doable to do good to India.

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He is incorruptible and a man of principles, hence a significant threat to the pervasive influence currently in c system.

All in all, he is totally repudiates c system in thoughts and actions in all apsects.

Hence he is the biggest threat to c system since independence.

arindam · Post by **arindam** » 08 May 2013 09:23

http://www.openthemagazine.com/article/ ... odi-s-wife

Found this article to be hidden away in "Assembly election 2012" thread.

It is from 2009 and as per the article, Modi is an authoritarian, patriarch demon, who has kept his own wife in house arrest. Well, that is what seemed like or rather being conveyed. Another paid article may be.

What I read between the lines; she doesn't wield the kind of power we are habituated in experiencing from kith and kins of politicians in every sphere of our life. She lives out of simple, decent means while helping the community at large. An expectation from each and every citizens of our country. The article didn't surmise it properly though. As usual, it has to bring in some kind of anti-Modi factor to do equal equal on the atrocities of everyday politician with that of Modi.

Contrast this to the most recent example of Chiru's sons guards' beating of local techie for obstructing their car in traffic.

The kind of scrutiny Modi has been subjected to since 2002 is sheer mind numbing and not sure what he has been through prior to that. I am taking a bit of liberty here but he is "Loh and Bikash Purush the Second"

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 08 May 2013 09:31

Yes, I am a great anti-Modi individual and his fieriest detractor. By posting in BRF my opinions, I plan to sway BRFites and eventually undermine Modi and BJP. I am so full of myself, that I think I can fool everybody. I wish you had not outed me. Finally, I also plan to get Rahul Gandhi get elected as US President. Meanwhile I also plan to work with Fiji government and ban Modi's entry into New Zealand.

member_20317 · Post by **member_20317** » 08 May 2013 09:53

^

Some other time perhaps.

But now that Karnataka ka kalyaan ho gaya, hope the central leadership in BhaJPa see this in the proper light and cooperate. Just hope the Parl. Com. meeting later in the day decides something positive and does that amicably. The tear that started from Karnataka should not be allowed to extend to the center.

Neela · Post by **Neela** » 08 May 2013 10:15

SwamyG wrote: Yup, I have noted that a lot happens because of Modi's efforts. Sometimes I too think if it is all authoritarianism. But then a man driving growth and progress, is better than another man just driving corruption, division, neglect and maintaining status quo.

Saar why you dont think US Presidential system authoritarian? No one in Modi's team or party is complaining. GJ people not complaining. Only the usual suspects i.e political parties, CON's attack dog the media & the usual worthless rabble rousers are claiming so. Surely you must have some kind of evidence to make a statement like that.
Or there could be a slight chance that Modi is a good man and a great leader. ( Great in comparison to the scum he rubs shoulders with). And that is the reason why so many people sway to his tunes. Poeple do that out of own volition.
But even if he is a little authoritarian, please tell me how it is any different from your boss, a family, a company like Apple etc.

As a voter, these are the things we must discern in the order given & then pick our choice:
1. First, never feed a troll on BRF. you will waste time.
2. PIck the parties with nationalistic views . Nation first.
3. Then pick the ones which promotes national integration
4. Pick the ones from that list which treats everyone the same and respects the law.
5. And then pick the one that you think will do the most for your own people and you.

( maybe the above in reverse order what minorities want) All of the above advice is free.
I notice that you had written "Sometime I too...." . "I too"? Like in 'I am better more balanced than you guys "I too"'. What are you? Chitragupta?

Hehehe...just kidding SwamyG. Chill & relax. And take the advice of my spiritual guru Sri Sri Sri Goundamani .

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 08 May 2013 11:22

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 08 May 2013 11:50

few observations. dynasty knows the nation better. that is why they are looking forward to rule the nation in 2014. the urban vote is irrelevant. it is ths rural vote that matters. the bjp has no hope of being able to change the mind sets of the rural voters.

unlesz they can do so. upa 3 comes next along sith a lost generation in terms of hope and future sacrificed to the alter of political oppotunitism.

modi cantsave us .

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 08 May 2013 12:33

merlin · Post by **merlin** » 08 May 2013 12:50

Sushupti wrote:

Ha, ha. How very predictable

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 08 May 2013 14:17

From Net random musings

Why a Governor was able to shake a BJP govt thus leading it to a drastic fall in Karnataka and why a Governor could inspite of her pro congress activity could not do it in Gujarat - why all NGO's which gets funding from central could not do it Gujarat - time to introspect for BJP..
Selecet and Elect non coorrupt leaders..
Because of a corrupt CM Governor won the election for congress..!

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 08 May 2013 14:18

BJP at 21% is quite bad. I for one expected them to be around 25. Parliamentory Board meeting is now called all of a sudden. No indication at all. I predict they will form a committee to take stock after KA result and examine the reasons. Modi not attending is interesting.

INC I am sure is going to "go to town on Modi failure to win KA" and may temp to " go to the nation early" But ABV (along whom CBN also) went early on India shining we know what happend. INC is well advised to compleate their term. They may not get furture chances.

Supratik · Post by **Supratik** » 08 May 2013 15:05

No, they will wait for FSB to kick-in, IMO.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 08 May 2013 16:02

Narayana Rao wrote:BJP at 21% is quite bad. I for one expected them to be around 25. Parliamentory Board meeting is now called all of a sudden. No indication at all. I predict they will form a committee to take stock after KA result and examine the reasons. Modi not attending is interesting.

INC I am sure is going to "go to town on Modi failure to win KA" and may temp to " go to the nation early" But ABV (along whom CBN also) went early on India shining we know what happend. INC is well advised to compleate their term. They may not get furture chances.

Not INC, watch out for BJP leaders saying that on TV. It seems that Ravi Shankar prasad said "modi magic cannot work in KA'

. Even for his three speeches there are folks ready with knives.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 08 May 2013 16:37

Muppalla wrote: Not INC, watch out for BJP leaders saying that on TV. It seems that Ravi Shankar prasad said "modi magic cannot work in KA' . Even for his three speeches there are folks ready with knives.

Exact quote is necessary, he could be saying Modi is not a magician to effect outcome with limited effort, or anything else, so knowing the exact quote is important.

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 08 May 2013 16:42

Let INC go blare this and it will only add to the modi popularity.

BJP lost state elections expectedly due to vote splits and desertion due to bad performance. Pinning it on modi wont work beyond the echo chambers of inc.

Arunkumar · Post by **Arunkumar** » 08 May 2013 17:05

Gus wrote:Let INC go blare this and it will only add to the modi popularity.
........
.

+100.
After watching NDTV and watching the amount of coverage it gave to Narendra Modi , high time its renamed to Narendra Damodar TV.

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 08 May 2013 17:10

Gus wrote:Let INC go blare this and it will only add to the modi popularity.

BJP lost state elections expectedly due to vote splits and desertion due to bad performance. Pinning it on modi wont work beyond the echo chambers of inc.

The grassroots workers will definitely appreciate the fact that he came and campaigned, even though it was a lost cause, and even though he knew full well that the MSM would try to pin the blame on him. The main opposition to Modi, at this stage, is from within the party, and that rapport with the grassroots is what is necessary at this time.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 08 May 2013 19:29

Even if Modi is declared PM candidate, I am not sure Modi would really be fighting from any constituency during the General Elections. He would move to the Center only as PM, which depends on BJP getting a good strong majority, and sufficient NDA allies not opposed to his candidature.

Otherwise Modi would like to stay in Gujarat, where he has many dreams still.

So I think Modi would say he wants to concentrate first on the elections and not be distracted by winning his seat. Depending on the outcome, if it is possible to put together an NDA government, he would contest then from someplace - Gujarat or UP. If it is not possible, he continues as Gujarat's popular CM, and waits it out for 2018/19.

I don't think he is particularly interested in sitting in the Opposition benches in Loksabha with zero productivity, zero action.

So,
PM candidature - Yes
Constituency in General Elections - No

krisna · Post by **krisna** » 08 May 2013 19:31

perception of the party matters a lot-

1) BJP was a party with corruption issues- dumped yeddy till cleared by judiciary, later was kicked out from party. This is the strongest stand taken by any party against corruption.
whatever the reasons given for or against them.

2) In the same breath consider congis- they have never done this -- no corrupt person has been kicked out-- only person who directly challenged the termite party heads were put down to size. Reason broadly is - congress=corrupt. hence people are aware but have got used to it. familiarity breeds contempt. Hence people vote congis as alternative if something goes wrong with BJP/other party.

3) presstitutes play a huge role which is underestimated by all. press statements percolate to a significant number of people. similar to advertisements creates awareness with the issues.

4) local factors play a important/dominant role. However other issues mentioned above also help in it. especilally enticing laggard voters, and swing voters to some extent.

5) whatever happens to congis- whether corrupt or not- its traditional supporters - minorities and sc/sts never desert the party. This is something to understand. particlularly minorities. They never change parties -- ex MIM in Hyderabad, local strong muslim parties and congis in the rest of the country. To hell with corruption poor governance or any other -- they unfailingly vote them. . sc/sts monoploy has been broken with rise of awareness of sc/sts etc but minorities have a strong sense of identity which is further worsened by its supporters parties.

6) non minorities swing between all parties -- who are the ones who bring or vote out BJP. They are not the vote banks like minorities and others(ex KHAM, MY etc)

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IOW non minorities and well aware folks(noncaptive vote banks) talk about governance corruption etc, they are the swing voters in broad sense. they make or break BJP.

Here NaMo has the strongest support base because of his record on the ground, despite aggressive attempts by c-system to break him. he also keeps in touch with people through his innovative use of technoogy in bringing transparency to his functioning which has created a favorable wind to him.
c system knows the pulse of its traditional voter banks who will never desert it.
If a small whiff of any corruption charges or any other lie sticks to NaMo the whole support base of NaMo(non captive banks) will collapse in no time.

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people blame the d4 or others for faults of BJP , but these are really secondary effects. The primary issues are the above which have to be taken care of.
The same trouble is with congis if not much more but they have a better record of winning.

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Overall BJP will always fight with its back to its wall despite whatever steps it takes to fight corruption or any other charges.( including kandahar, kargil etc etc).

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 08 May 2013 19:47

RajeshA wrote:Even if Modi is declared PM candidate, I am not sure Modi would really be fighting from any constituency during the General Elections. He would move to the Center only as PM, which depends on BJP getting a good strong majority, and sufficient NDA allies not opposed to his candidature.

Otherwise Modi would like to stay in Gujarat, where he has many dreams still.

So I think Modi would say he wants to concentrate first on the elections and not be distracted by winning his seat. Depending on the outcome, if it is possible to put together an NDA government, he would contest then from someplace - Gujarat or UP. If it is not possible, he continues as Gujarat's popular CM, and waits it out for 2018/19.

I don't think he is particularly interested in sitting in the Opposition benches in Loksabha with zero productivity, zero action.

So,
PM candidature - Yes
Constituency in General Elections - No

Winning a seat is not at all a big deal for NaMo. He will not even have to campaign. But he may not feel the need to contest unless there is full clarity about his role. If the party is firmly behind him, and makes him PM candidate, he may contest.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 08 May 2013 19:50

Pranav wrote:Winning a seat is not at all a big deal for NaMo. But he may not feel the need to contest unless there is full clarity about his role.

I think clarity about his role would be coming very soon - May/June! I think he would want clarity about BJP's win in Delhi first before he contests!

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 08 May 2013 19:52

RajeshA wrote:
Pranav wrote:Winning a seat is not at all a big deal for NaMo. But he may not feel the need to contest unless there is full clarity about his role.
I think clarity about his role would be coming very soon - May/June! I think he would want clarity about BJP's win in Delhi first before he contests!

What does RSS want? If people want clarity that is the clarity that is needed first. Is RSS clear? Does it have a gameplan? What are its thoughts in future?

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 08 May 2013 19:55

RVAIDYA ‏@rvaidya2000

There is a move to make NaMo as leader but with both hands and legs tied. He must get power/freedom of a leader to decide strategy &team RT

https://twitter.com/rvaidya2000/status/ ... 4208888832

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 08 May 2013 20:00

RajeshA wrote:
Pranav wrote:Winning a seat is not at all a big deal for NaMo. But he may not feel the need to contest unless there is full clarity about his role.
I think clarity about his role would be coming very soon - May/June! I think he would want clarity about BJP's win in Delhi first before he contests!

IMO if the party is willing to work under his leadership, he may take responsibility and contest the election regardless of the prospects.

By the way, would he have to resign his assembly seat before contesting Lok Sabha election?

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 08 May 2013 20:07

Pranav wrote: By the way, would he have to resign his assembly seat before contesting Lok Sabha election?

No, he has to resign one later though.

ShyamSP · Post by **ShyamSP** » 08 May 2013 20:11

Pranav wrote:
RajeshA wrote: I think clarity about his role would be coming very soon - May/June! I think he would want clarity about BJP's win in Delhi first before he contests!
IMO if the party is willing to work under his leadership, he may take responsibility and contest the election regardless of the prospects.

By the way, would he have to resign his assembly seat before contesting Lok Sabha election?

You can run for MLA and MP same time and also in multiple constituencies. You can only take one role however after the win.

If BJP wants to win, they need to clean up all top leaders who created mess and caused failure regardless of Yeddi because he no longer is there in the party.

Two among them are:
- Sushma who messed up both Karnataka and AP
- Advani for forcing Yeddi out and causing self-destruction in Karnataka