Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

[SwamyG]

( maybe the above in reverse order what minorities want) All of the above advice is free.
I notice that you had written "Sometime I too...." . "I too"? Like in 'I am better more balanced than you guys "I too"'. What are you? Chitragupta?

Hehehe...just kidding SwamyG. Chill & relax. And take the advice of my spiritual guru Sri Sri Sri Goundamani .

Naaa...I do not think I am better. The "too" means "that even I a Mod-supporter"

[Sushupti]

More than half the seats, 21/40, won by BJP are from the three districts Modi spoke.

[muraliravi]

More than half the seats, 21/40, won by BJP are from the three districts Modi spoke.

That is the key point he has to use. I think Modi knew this well in advance. My guess he could have campaigned extensively in KA like rahul did in UP (hate the comparison, but still just for reference). He decided not to. The point being that he wanted the RSS and BJP top brass to take note of the rot that Ananth Kumar, LKA and Sushma have created in KA. He wants their head for this mess. If he had started campaigning with Shettar about 8-9 months ago, I am sure they could have gotten close to 75 seats which would created a hung assembly and AK, LKA and SS would walk away with no accountability.

Rajnath and Modi even tried to bring back Yeddy before the election, but LKA kept vetoeing it. I want these 3 out of the party's board. period. I think that is what modi has conveyed to rajnath and said that he will not attend the meeting on Karnataka today. No point attending when the people who created the rot are presiding it. This is time for rajnath and rss top brass to bury their ego and anoint Modi and kick these 3 out.

[fanne]

yup these three (or at least 1) should be made to resign or kicked. if their supporter want to go with him, i will buy them the tickets (they are handfull).

[RoyG]

This should be the goal of Modi and his supporters at this point. Chuck Advani and Sushma and get the party moving together. These people are useless that are concerned more with keeping their skeletons from falling out of the closet and filling their pockets.

[Sushupti]

Rajnath Singh is on Twitter.
https://twitter.com/BJPRajnathSingh

[Muppalla]

Little old but this is an important news for this thread.

Sena says not against Modi’s PM candidature

Express news service Posted online: Thu May 02 2013, 01:50 hrs

Mumbai : On the eve of Narendra Modi’s Mumbai visit, Shiv Sena president Uddhav Thackeray told a gathering of supporters in Goregaon the party was never opposed to the Gujarat CM’s candidature for the Prime Minister’s post. He said Sena would support any candidate who spoke of Hindu welfare.
“I have never opposed the candidature of Narendra Modi. Our stand is clear, whoever speaks of Hindu welfare Sena will support him,” Thackeray said. Sena and Modi share an uneasy relationship. Thackeray is not happy with the Hindu Hriday Samrat reference to Modi. Sena claims the term was originally coined for its founder the late Bal Thackeray.

Now there is no one against Modi other than few in BJP and Nitish.

[Agnimitra]

Triangulating Hindutva: The Fundamentalist, Reformist & Traditionalist

Some lessons can be learned from the electoral loss in Karnataka for forces purporting to represent 'Hindutva'. The loss of bastions like Mangalore is attributed by some to the foolhardiness of those leaders who reduced 'Hindutva' to moral policing and protecting old superstitions in the name of tradition.

It is also immediately relevant to point out that a slap in the face of 'traditionalist' activism is by no means equivalent to a defeat for 'Hindutva', but is rather a very welcome shift for its most dynamic vectors at the present time. Consider this post on another blog:

Kal Chiron's Blog: Rise of Narendra Modi - Return of Savarkar's stream of thought?

The Parting of the Waters
It may be significant that the encrustation of the 'traditionalist' constituency for 'Hindutva' has received a well-deserved setback, opening the way for the 'fundamentalists' and 'reformist' vectors to take control at this point. Meanwhile, the Congress and its casteist litter find themselves increasingly veering towards the extremely shrill "secularist" or "rejectionist" end - a prelude to their ultimate irrelevance or subsumation within a Dharmic viewpoint. Could this polarization of extremes and their insanities be clearing a passage for the sane but strong Vedic fundamentalists to lead the wandering Bharatas across to their native land?

[RoyG]

What exactly do fundamentalists and reformists believe in? Why is it that we always categorize ourselves within western -isms and -ists? All I see is a movement towards less government , more development and cleaner environment, and civilizational values stemming from plurality of ideas and freedom of speech.

[prahaar]

What exactly do fundamentalists and reformists believe in? Why is it that we always categorize ourselves within western -isms and -ists? All I see is a movement towards less government , more development and cleaner environment, and civilizational values stemming from plurality of ideas and freedom of speech.

Plurality of ideas is already present in India, the problem is that the current system includes "exclusive ideas" in the name of pluralism, which may be fine in theory, but in practice it breeds conflict. And the political backing for "exclusive ideas" ideas has allowed "freedom of speech" to be acceptable in a walled garden, where only certain ideas are possible for debate. And this is not limited to religious domain, but one can see that in many other domains (ex. social, political, etc.). Unfortunately, I do not see that happening (i.e. movement towards plurality of ideas and freedom of speech).

[Agnimitra]

Why is it that we always categorize ourselves within western -isms and -ists?

The point was NOt to categorize any person. I said:

Without trying to pigeonhole any individual as a 'traditionalist', 'fundamentalist' or 'reformist', how can we define these terms in a schema of form and substance?

What exactly do fundamentalists and reformists believe in?

Depends on which civilizational context they come from - Vedic or non-Vedic.

Vedic fundamentalist believes in creative Balance in the torrent of this changing world. Non-Vedic fundamentalist believes in continuous revolution.

The point was that certain tendencies in society have to be sorted out in order to make way for a real transition. In order to fend of a Pinko, its ok to have a Tejo as an opposing force. But once that space is created, then the mainstream must be lead by a person whose fundamentals are based on creative Balance.

[member_20317]

There was a 'post KA results' meeting supposed to have happened yesterday. In Delhi involving Parl Comm BJP leaders. First heard NM was going then somebody mentioned he was not. What happened? Did the meeting take place at all. Nothing on the net.

[Pranav]

There was a 'post KA results' meeting supposed to have happened yesterday. In Delhi involving Parl Comm BJP leaders. First heard NM was going then somebody mentioned he was not. What happened? Did the meeting take place at all. Nothing on the net.

Yes the meeting took place (was mentioned on Sagarika's show) but Modi apparently had a toothache and did not attend.

[RamaY]

BSP MP who walked out of Vande Mataram sees no reason to apologise

“I request that Muslims not be compelled to sing this song since it is against the Sharia.. the song tells people to bow before Bharat Mata,” he said.

There always exist these elements who demand that their anti-national behavior is entertained else India would not be secular.

That is why NM said "India First" is his definition of secularism. I remember some Modi supporters felt it is not Hindutva enough.

[Sanku]

I remember some Modi supporters felt it is not Hindutva enough.

Hindutva enough would be also explicitly saying that India == Bharat == Hindutva.

[Hari Seldon]

Am glad the loss in KA was heavy enough that accountability be fixed, consequences visited and heads roll (figuratively speaking) for the expected disaster.

But yup, no point holding my breath for change to happen to the extent necessary, starting at the very top.

[Sushupti]

Guys now Doggi Raja has come out in the defense of Bansal.

[Arjun]

Good analysis of KA loss- Karnataka: BJP must learn from defeat

The most insightful bit is this:

It is both paradoxical and counter-intuitive that it is not Narendra Modi that has an acceptability problem but it is the BJP as a Party that has an acceptability problem.

The lesson from Karnataka for the BJP is that the most superhuman campaign by one individual will come to naught if it is not backed by a performant organisation and by a credible candidate. In our indirect democracy, when the average voter, even if marginally enthused by Narendra Modi, steps into the polling booth and stares at the ballot, they will not see Narendra Modi but the local candidate. Unless the BJP rank and file bring extraordinary pressure to bear on the BJP’s leadership to choose credible candidates who exude Narendra Modi’s persona both with their conduct and in their views, their dream of seeing Modi in Delhi will remain distant.

[Sanku]

The most insightful bit is this:

Unless the BJP rank and file bring extraordinary pressure to bear on the BJP’s leadership to choose credible candidates who exude Narendra Modi’s persona both with their conduct and in their views, their dream of seeing Modi in Delhi will remain distant.

Sir, wasnt I saying this before?

And no LKA cant be blamed for this, this is all local. BJP in Kkta lost at local level.

[rkirankr]

And no LKA cant be blamed for this, this is all local. BJP in Kkta lost at local level.

Maybe but the Delhi team's constant interference did hurt BJP. Even if the D4 do a 100 yr tapasya in himalayas, they will not get the power to restore Karnataka to BJP. It has to be done by local leaders only. If they really wanted to do something, they should have supported Yeddy to get out of the vice like grip of Reddys. Local infighting plus D4s contribution helped congress

[panduranghari]

What exactly do fundamentalists and reformists believe in? Why is it that we always categorize ourselves within western -isms and -ists? All I see is a movement towards less government , more development and cleaner environment, and civilizational values stemming from plurality of ideas and freedom of speech.

More governance and less government has always been a hall mark of Bharat. What we really need is passive autocracy. The passive bit is very critical. It was the way the king presided over the masses and let the mantri's do their job. King acts like final arbiter. Modi's idea of more governance less government is very much like the ways of past. A move from democracy to passive autocracy is must to preserve Bharat.

[Sanku]

And no LKA cant be blamed for this, this is all local. BJP in Kkta lost at local level.

Maybe but the Delhi team's constant interference did hurt BJP. Even if the D4 do a 100 yr tapasya in himalayas, they will not get the power to restore Karnataka to BJP. It has to be done by local leaders only. If they really wanted to do something, they should have supported Yeddy to get out of the vice like grip of Reddys. Local infighting plus D4s contribution helped congress

It is better to lose, and reinvent. If they cant reinvent themselves in the mold of other BJP govts, then having BJP in Kkta at state is hardly useful.

Yeddi was not running a Govt which was remotely like any other BJP govt. All the good work by BJP in Kkta is over last three years, yet the first two years of Yeddi haunt BJP so much that BJP rule is associated with first two years than last two.

[krisna]

Amidst the well deserved jhappad that local bjp got in KA polls, one thing to observe is the fear of Congo netas in dilli.
Even though NaMo did only 3 rallies , congis are on rooftops shouting like monkeys about NaMo failure outside GJ.

This shows they are deeply afraid of him and fear his dilli ascension.
Augurs well for the non congis to continue their march confidently.

IOW another round of free publicity to NaMo which is well deserved I would say in different light.

[member_20317]

Sanku bhai, I don't agree with almost anything you say but I respect the way you never give up and fight only for your own stand. Looks like you have never heard of ‘dilemma’. I hope you are making a world of your own otherwise I would hate to have so much of my time taken away from me.

But now I guess it is time to finally and respectfully say good bye to LKA and his team. We cannot forget how he remained loyal to RSS even when he was asked to divorce them, we love him for RJB and for remaining in the shadows of ABV (sulk notwithstanding). We love him for siding with NM when the world was against NM and for other things that we do not know of. But there are times when a man needs to yield to realities. Reality is LKA behaved like a Dhritarashtra, more concerned about his own dilemmas then about his people. People have gotten condemned for much less. Yeddi was not honest, is something LKA had all the means to figure out earlier. That KA BJP was devoid of ideas is something that could have been set right in all the time the blind king had. KA BJP deserved what came their way but LKA cannot escape the fact that as the senior most leader it was his job to have taken care of these problems. If he and the other unelectables have any sense of propriety left they should own up to their share of the blame and allow others within BJP to put in their mite. Uttarakhand, HP, KA now and UP, Delhi, Rajasthan earlier all lost to mis-management by central party leadership.

When will this bleed stop. And if it was always about local issues then why do we need a central leadership at all.

[fanne]

LKA,SS and AK must pay the price. They ran with it and lost in spite of everyone warning them. Though LKA wish of Moksha did not materealize, BJP actually got 40 more than what Love Purush may have implied (i.e. Moksha), it is time that BJP gave him Moksha from party responsibilities. Probaly few pwople may leave because of him, I may count Sudhir Kulkarni, maybe SS andk AK and maybe one forum member. But I guess BJP can live with a loss of 4-5 votes and gain millions in return!!

[munna]

Ho Hum! Finally Shanta Kumar has had his fill and decimated the party to nothingness in Karnataka.

The larger that point that emerges from this debacle is the one I alluded to before. if Narendra Modi has any PM ambitions then his team and he should set out to address leadership issues in all the states before he can dare dream of a win. There are plenty of talented mobilizers and mass leaders in the party who are cooling their heels. If he is able to cultivate these leaders as his loyal generals then BJP will be able to take on everybody and their uncles. NaMo will go nowhere without a team of leaders in each state. He should start calling such folks now, morality be damned. If they cannot win power then they have no right to be in politics itself. Or better still become B team of AAP.

PS: SS has less of a role in L'Affaire d'Yeddyurappa. She had no dog in the fight till Bellary belt got infected. It was Iron Man and Infinite Man who indulged in motiveless malevolence towards their own CM.

[Hari Seldon]

^^Q fanne is who'll bell the cat?

Don't expect the LKA-SS-AK trio to leave on their own.

And no, I don't quite see Rajnath singh asking them to 'go', either. They've a majority of the parliamentary board with them, IIRC.

Even with everything going right for NM, dislodging the C-system from spawning another UPA was an uphill battle but with the unholy trio in Dilli, its well nigh a write-off altogether, I fear. "Sigh".

[Prem]

BSP MP who walked out of Vande Mataram sees no reason to apologise“I request that Muslims not be compelled to sing this song since it is against the Sharia.. the song tells people to bow before Bharat Mata,” he said.
There always exist these elements who demand that their anti-national behavior is entertained else India would not be secular.That is why NM said "India First" is his definition of secularism. I remember some Modi supporters felt it is not Hindutva enough.

So now we know that if If India have to fight a war against Islamic elements , then this Secular and his type will not act on behalf of Indian security because its against Sharia. Sharia over Indian spirit of Motherland .
Shariat Pey hai Secular Dill Naasaz
Indian Security Intersts Ka Nahi Andaaz
Gaddari Issi Kaa Naam Hai.

[muraliravi]

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/home ... 959838.cms

NEW DELHI: A jubilant Congress may have celebrated its decisive victory in Karnataka by saying that the outcome's exposed the claim about Narendra Modi being the biggest vote-getter but the saffron debacle may only escalate the clamour within the BJP for projection of the Gujarat CM.

Many in the BJP see the party's fall from grace in its only southern stronghold as validation of beliefs that "politics-as-usual" won't work anymore and that the party must rally behind Modi to benefi t from popular resentment against Congress.

Sources involved with the party's Karnataka campaign said the outcome could've been worse but for Modi whose appeal worked in Bangalore and Hubli-Belgaum regions. "He revived spirits of the cadre," said a functionary.

Sources said what Modi could achieve with a campaign which was largely symbolic could only enhance his appeal among the cadre who have, for all practical purposes, already proclaimed him to be their PM candidate for 2014. This is signifi cant given the belief that pro-Modi fervour among the ranks will fi nally trump resistance he faces from some on the parliamentary board. "It's inevitable," said an insider on whether the setback will boost hope in Modi's ability to turn things around for the party. The past three weeks, say sources, have seen the groundswell growing for the Gujarat CM.

This was evident last month in Patna when Shatrughan Sinha's advocacy for L K Advani was countered by workers who raised slogans in Modi's favour at an event to celebrate the birth anniversary of Babu Kunwar Singh, a hero of the 1857 revolt.

Then, Bihar deputy CM Sushil Kumar Modi declared that BJP may project an OBC representative as PM candidate. This was seen as a reference to Modi. Sushil Modi enjoys considerable goodwill among RSS brass, and has worked hard to preserve the alliance with Nitish Kumar, set to quit NDA if BJP declares Modi BJP's PM candidate. Bangalore witnessed similar scenes in the state's last phase of campaigning. BJP workers made their displeasure known when party general secretary Ananth Kumar prolonged their wait for Modi's speech on the lawns of National College.

[Sushupti]

LKA,SS and AK must pay the price. They ran with it and lost in spite of everyone warning them. Though LKA wish of Moksha did not materealize, BJP actually got 40 more than what Love Purush may have implied (i.e. Moksha), it is time that BJP gave him Moksha from party responsibilities. Probaly few pwople may leave because of him, I may count Sudhir Kulkarni, maybe SS andk AK and maybe one forum member. But I guess BJP can live with a loss of 4-5 votes and gain millions in return!!

For all his loyalty towards "Loh Purush", I think that "one member" is well wisher of the BJP. Once he decides to disinvest his ego from "Loh Purush", i don't see any difference between him and rest of the BJP supporters on this forum.

[RamaY]

BSP MP who walked out of Vande Mataram sees no reason to apologise“I request that Muslims not be compelled to sing this song since it is against the Sharia.. the song tells people to bow before Bharat Mata,” he said.
There always exist these elements who demand that their anti-national behavior is entertained else India would not be secular.That is why NM said "India First" is his definition of secularism. I remember some Modi supporters felt it is not Hindutva enough.

So now we know that if If India have to fight a war against Islamic elements , then this Secular and his type will not act on behalf of Indian security because its against Sharia. Sharia over Indian spirit of Motherland .
Shariat Pey hai Secular Dill Naasaz
Indian Security Intersts Ka Nahi Andaaz
Gaddari Issi Kaa Naam Hai.

Pyarullah,

There still can be a fine line. This individual did not say he wouldnt fight for or protect Bharat from external aggression. He simply not consider it as worthy of reverence, per his religious convictions. IMHO, he would fight for her more viciously than others for he occupies/owns/enjoys.

This is how Mughals ruled Bharat. They protected their kingdoms, coincidentally it was Bharat, from external aggressors same as a Hindu king would. Same goes with British who, perhaps did more to Bharat (I read this comment in some thread today/yesterday), by protecting its frontiers and even extending its territory, even if they did so as colonizers.

When you take a good dose of Secularism, an individual is considered the protector of a girl, irrespective of whether he considers her as his Devata/mother or sister/daughter/friend or wife/concubines or sex-slave/prostitute. When people say secularism is an unifier, this is how they do it.

[Prem]

RamaYa
When the clear lines are required , the blurring, blinding by secularism create uncertainty at the time of adversity. Double mindedness is not good in the time of Aar Paar Maar Dhaar which will soon be either invited or imposed on Indians.

BTW, Narendar Bhai now more look like Abhimanyu Modi where all of his own elders are trying to kill him using all fair and unfair methods.

[RamaY]

^ he is not Abhimanyu anymore. He came out of padmavyuha in December 2012. He is Krishna+Arjuna now (both Radhika and Radhasaradhi).

The confusion we see now is what would have happened in both camps if Abhimanyu were to comeout of Padmavyuha alive. This would mean
- if/whenhow to end Saindhava
- go back to regular war for there is no difference from the previous day
- Drona needs a new strategy for there cannot be "aswathama hata: kunjaraha"
- need new strategy for Karna

And so on..

[RamaY]

From Indian economy thread...

The "socialist" rubbish was pure opportunism and can be traced to Indira Gandhi's lurch to the left to win power in the Congress and check mate the internal opposition. As part of that , she made a bargain with the devil and allowed the CPI ding dongs to get into positions of influence in academia and arts and social sciences .

Vinaji

I think the communists/leftist IEDeology was given space in academia, arts, social sciences, policy and planning commission by none other than JLN. His daughter just added the "socialist and secular" words to the preamble.

One way IG made the subversion started by her father, constitutional.

[Sushupti]

From Indian economy thread...

The "socialist" rubbish was pure opportunism and can be traced to Indira Gandhi's lurch to the left to win power in the Congress and check mate the internal opposition. As part of that , she made a bargain with the devil and allowed the CPI ding dongs to get into positions of influence in academia and arts and social sciences .

Vinaji

I think the communists/leftist IEDeology was given space in academia, arts, social sciences, policy and planning commission by none other than JLN. His daughter just added the "socialist and secular" words to the preamble.

One way IG made the subversion started by her father, constitutional.

It was only after the signing of "Indo–Soviet Treaty of Peace" in 1971 academia was allowed to be dominated by Lefties. Probably it was quid pro quo for Soviet military support. Nehru was leftist but leftist didn't have guts to hound out any non leftist.As people say Indira destroyed most of institutions of country. In the case of academia she outsourced this job to leftist.

[Hari Seldon]

The bjp's dilli billis will probably now hope to make NM the PM candidate but with one arm and leg tiod up. WOn't work. They'll want to harvest his hard earned credibility and mass appeal for their own ends. Sadly for them, NM is too much of a realist to fall for this BS.

Even when namo was a nobody and catapulted top CMship in GJ as its nth bjp CM in n years, he went to the RSS and bargained hard. Basioc argument was - if you want me to fix the mess, empower me to do so, don't just send me there restrained. The RSS agreed and the rest is history.

I'm hoping something similar may happen yet again. What is clear to mke is that namo won't become the PM face until he is assured he is empowered enough to bring about meaningful if bitter change in the organizational superstructure. He'll prefer to sit out the polls as GJ CM if D4 play too clever by half. Too early to tell which way things will go, but we'll see.

[Nikhil T]

Very interesting quote hidden deep in Outlook's cover story this month

Sanjay Baru was closely associated with UPA 1's PMO.
A general practitioner

The Congress, on its part, is either avoiding the issue or defending Manmohan on record. Off the record, however, it is blaming the PM and the law minister in order to—what else—distance the dynasty and the party from all the ignominy. Hence an SMS about the ‘Kaur group’ versus the ‘core group’ doing the rounds. (The suggestion being that the law minister was chosen as part of some sort of Punjab cabal encouraged by the prime minister’s wife, Gursharan Kaur.) “It’s the usual routine,” says Sanjaya Baru, former media advisor to the PM and now fellow at the Centre for Policy Research. “Blame all the bad things on Manmohan and have all the good things credited to the Gandhis.”

[Sanku]

Sanku bhai, I don't agree with almost anything you say but I respect the way you never give up and fight only for your own stand. Looks like you have never heard of ‘dilemma’. I hope you are making a world of your own otherwise I would hate to have so much of my time taken away from me.

ravi_g, (and Sushupti ji since he showed interest in this) I did not understand you at all above. In any case let me try and explain my point of view based on my little understanding of what you said.

1) You should not waste any time on what I am saying, I am a no body with time on his hands.
2) I have NO loyalty to LKA, Modi or even BJP, my percieved and stated alignment with BJP and its leaders is merely out of moderately enlightened self interest in the only one point I have loyalty for.
3) My views on NaMo and LKA are their roles and responsibilities are my statements on the objective realities as I perceive and as much as I am capable of.

With those disclaimers, I have never said that the mess in Kkta is not Central leaderships responsibility, yes it is. But then central leadership in BJP is not a "High command" a la INC which micro manages everything, there are issues both ways. The problems of BJP in Kkta are linked to the same reason which took it to power in Kkta. Same reason biting back.

Yeddi was an important element with his 10% vote share and Lingayat base, no doubt, but he also led to the downfall in many ways, blaming Ananth Kumar, or Shanta Kumar (for Kkta???????) or LKA and SS in this context is merely cathartic, since those are significantly minor reasons.

An LKA or SS is not the "gleat leadel" who can override the RSS (from whom Yeddi also draws) and BJP collective. So BJP's success and failures are collective.

That is precisely why ONE NaMo wont swing it for BJP. It is not a leader driven party, it is a collective. (it is a bee hive) (runs and hides)

[VikramS]

Guys found this speech by Balraj Sahni at JNU.
From 1972
http://www.jnu.ac.in/jnuta/balraj_sahni.htm

Sadly nothing has changed!

But echoes a lot what Modi says

[kmkraoind]

Better for BJP to demand edible oil, pulses, soya, vegetable, fruits and eggs to be included in FSB:
1. If Congress relents, claim Comprehensive FSB as BJP victory.
2. If Congress did not oblige, claim Congress is insensitive to comprehensive nutrition to poor Indians.

But BJP or NaMo should not give credit to Congress of FSB (people's money) at the same time should not take blame for stalling FSB. Let shove in Congress' mouth a big that they cannot swallow or spit.