Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

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Muppalla
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Muppalla »

Sanku wrote:^^^
Hain jee, so in the same vein what stopped Siryoya ji from taking up cudgels before BJP lost.

Yawnnnn.... need to go get some more beer and popcorn.
I know you want Advani as preferred over Modi. I respect that. However, you can do better than above. The MLC person is not a biggie and his views are views of bigger cross section. He had put his honest opinion and he is fired for that. Advani writing his musings over the web is also dissident activity. Rajanath should have fired Advani too but he is too biggie to handle. If JS was fired for just writing a book, why not Advani be fired for Jinnah-secular stuff and all these criticizing his own party in the public fora.

There are several Siryoya in the BJP at this moment who will blow up anytime. Let us see how many they will fire.

Without getting into is Advani right or wrong, does Modi can bring 200 seats or not. If BJP is democratic, they should implement the results of the exercise that they took. They collected using an electoral college who should be next PM candidate. Let them reveal and just take the decision. It is a party with a difference right?

The India Today article summarizes it right.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Sanku »

Muppalla wrote: I know you want Advani as preferred over Modi. I respect that.
Muppalla ji; the whole problem starts when you go from

0) Sanku expressed that he prefers LKA in PM seat IF NDA wins 2014

to

1) Sanku has expressed a preference for LKA in PM seat which means he prefers LKA over Modi
2) Sanku's views about events in Kkta are driven from his preference for LKA.

This is unfortunate for me since my views come across as being biased :(

==============================================================

To the topic of Kkta --
1) The issue of setting up BJP govt in manner which involved skullduggery (yes it did) and Yeddi's tantrums, petty corruption, issue of morality w.r.t. Shobha Karandjale are two different things totally. I would have maintained it, if it was Advani/Rajnath/Gadakari/<XYZ>

In fact, I have no knowledge that NaMo's position is different from that of central BJPs on this issue. Many folks seem to suggest that NaMo would have a different take, I see nothing to justify that belief.

Yes, BJP/Advani did support Yeddi when Yeddi was under pressure, they also supported the other faction. Basically, they did not want to take sides, and they kept trying to paper over the faction fight and get the ship back on track.

2) Now that BJP has lost in Kkta, any number of people small or big will crawl out of the wood work and throw mud around. Too many people associate loyalty == victory.

3) JS being fired for writing that book was stupid, and mistake on the part of the BJP, however given JS as a RS type and everything, and given that he is back, it is mostly a non issue.

4) Should Advani have written that blog, or should he have not spoken about it? I think the BJP wont get back with Yeddi in Kkta, too much has happened, not unless Yeddi turns a new leaf comes back and apologizes to all his colleagues he has bad mouthed and agrees that he is a party worker and because he can get votes, he wont throw his weight around on others.

That is a long journey + I think INC is propping up Yeddi to split, the Yeddi move is pure INC game, which Yeddi allowed himself to take part in, willingly. BJP has to see what it can do in KKta - Yeddi.

In that context, crying for Yeddi and the past government is a non issue, might as well move forward. I think the blog comes handy there.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by munna »

I think if UPA has any sense then it should bring the election further. What Lehar Singh wrote in his letter to Loh Purush about funding the rallies and events is very pertinent. Any battle needs soldiers and funds to mobilize an army. BJP as a political army is looking forwards to doing a bhajan-kirtan evening full of sermons and moralizing by dubious preachers, they are refusing to prepare for the fight.
Operation wipeout is in full swing! Some party workers actually want the process to be over as soon as possible, atleast the reconstruction can begin then. Advani should have the moral courage to reply to his detractors.

No Funds
No Leaders
No Seats
No Campaign

Mission Lok Sabha? Fat chance
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Pranav »

Sanku wrote:
Pranav wrote: What is your Khujli jee?

Meetings in Chicago can be paid for by NRIs. Meetings in India can be paid for by folks whose names are posted publicly on a website.

I hold no brief for anybody but many Kejriwal opponents (who are invariably of the well-fed type) often overshoot with wild and unsupported allegations. Come with some well-supported data and one would be happy to listen.
The FUD factory is in full flow.

BTW, Pranav, Khujliwal has called Modi a crook for supporting Adani etc?

Whats your take on that?
Let there be a structured (preferably written) debate between the two sides, in which issues are discussed threadbare point by point ...

IMO one weakness of Modi is inadequate response to criticism ... be it 2002 riots or other issues.

Arun Shourie is the gold standard as far as clarity of communication is concerned. Till Madhu Kishwar took it up, nobody had addressed the riots issue very systematically.
Last edited by Pranav on 18 May 2013 17:06, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Pranav »

ravi_g wrote:
Pranav wrote: What is your Khujli jee?

Meetings in Chicago can be paid for by NRIs. Meetings in India can be paid for by folks whose names are posted publicly on a website.

I hold no brief for anybody but many Kejriwal opponents (who are invariably of the well-fed type) often overshoot with wild and unsupported allegations. Come with some well-supported data and one would be happy to listen.

Pranav ji, basic principle of accountability is matching of inflows and outflows. This is accounting and is the first step in creating accountability.

Let the AAP present its programs matched to their cash outflows and then match those outflows to their cash inflows. Till then its all up in the air.

A contributor's list is a naked ankle and not the lady herself. :)
Besides lists of donors, they publish audited accounts too, iirc.

Well founded and careful criticism of any political org is always welcome.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Sanku »

Pranav wrote: Let there be a structured (preferably written) debate between the two sides,
Dont avoid the question. I asked for your take Khujliwal has laid some charges on Modi, I think they are crap. I also think the entire 2002 nautanki is crap. Whether or not Madhu Kishwar writes and clears Modi's name is totally inconsequential as far as I am concerned. No one gives a damn for Madhu Kishwar in real world. Only twitterati can scratch their itch through her writings, and they are entirely inconsequential.

I respect Arun Shourie a lot, but what has Arun Shourie got to do with anything here? He is not a CM, not a major political person. He gets elected through RS, and does what the party tells him to.

So quit beating the bush, and pick your side. Do you, or do you not support Khujliwal in his jihad against Modi.

For the record I think Khujliwal is a crook and congress B teams. All the leftists in the congress mold, whether in or outside the party are Congress funded hypocrites giving bhashan while living off state maal.

Khujliwal is the prime example of such a NGO leech, born and brought up in the nursery of leeches.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Pranav »

Sanku wrote:
Pranav wrote: Let there be a structured (preferably written) debate between the two sides,
Dont avoid the question. I asked for your take Khujliwal has laid some charges on Modi, I think they are crap. I also think the entire 2002 nautanki is crap. Whether or not Madhu Kishwar writes and clears Modi's name is totally inconsequential as far as I am concerned. No one gives a damn for Madhu Kishwar in real world. Only twitterati can scratch their itch through her writings, and they are entirely inconsequential.

I respect Arun Shourie a lot, but what has Arun Shourie got to do with anything here? He is not a CM, not a major political person. He gets elected through RS, and does what the party tells him to.

So quit beating the bush, and pick your side. Do you, or do you not support Khujliwal in his jihad against Modi.

For the record I think Khujliwal is a crook and congress B teams. All the leftists in the congress mold, whether in or outside the party are Congress funded hypocrites giving bhashan while living off state maal.

Khujliwal is the prime example of such a NGO leech, born and brought up in the nursery of leeches.
For the record a lot of people are saying that the Loh Purush is the real B team.

Re Adani etc why should anybody take a stand until there is a proper structured debate between the 2 sides.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by member_23629 »

Pranav Jee: How can you overlook evidence of foreign funding of Kejriwal? Goras are systematically propping up Indians against Modi, BJP and anyone else who supports Hindu nationalism. This is done by giving dollars to enable the guy to carry out operations in India and giving him some Gora award (usually Magsaysay) to raise his profile among Indians (who are hungry for Western recognition and admire Indians who have got it). Kejriwal is the same type of artificially propped up creature by the Goras as Harsh Mander, Teesta Setlavad, etc.
Last edited by member_23629 on 18 May 2013 17:15, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Pranav »

varunkumar wrote:Pranav Jee: How can you overlook evidence of foreign funding of Kejriwal?
Well Magsaysay is a foreign award, yes.

But FCRA does not allow foreign funding for political activity, and I have not seen any well founded allegation that FCRA has been violated.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Sanku »

Pranav wrote:
For the record a lot of people are saying that the Loh Purush is the real B team.

Re Adani why should anybody take a stand until there is a proper structured debate between the 2 sides.
Stop avoiding the question and trying to change the topic. I think there is enough matter on the ground to show Kujliwal is a liar, there needs to be no debate, just like there was no need for debate on 2002. Only people with ulterior motives of shady types will believe 2002 or Khujliwal.

Either you have done your home work and support the accusation of AAP or you think they are liars after doing your homework. What is this complete avoidance of, I have no idea what is the matter here, but I will ask for a debate just because some random idiot some where has leveled some charges?

Do you think Khujliwal has shown prima facie evidence that any one needs to defend? Yes or no.

I am asking for YOUR opinion. You can not say "I have no opinion" and at the same time always support AAP. Chose.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by member_23629 »

Pranav: All I can say is that in your eagerness to associate yourself with AAP, you have become blind. If Kejriwal is acceptable, then Setlavad and Harsh Mander should be acceptable too because they are also eating from the same trough.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Muppalla »

Sanku ji,
No one is praising Yeddi. Not a single post really praises Yeddi either here on BRF or even in any BJP forums. There are no politics in India or anywhere in the world without money, factions and sectarian groupism. However, every party has ideals too. There was never an example even from Mahabharat times till day in any part of the world, a party/a kingdom or an entity can be run purely on ideals.

Yeddi's personal life/favoritism to his kith and kin is used by his detractors to put him in a spot and you are using that too much to prove a point. If you dig really and honestly the same, you will get startling results of Advani and several others. All these are not factors at all in real politik. You just cannot destroy the party until a new real pole that can override Yeddi's vote catching power is emerged. What BJP did is exactly opposite and Advani is architect of all that. You also just cannot wash away current situations until you get to power and change the situations. What Advani did is a below the belt hitting and still trying to look like a champion of anti-corruption. His blogs and utterances are just defending such stuff.


Personalities, selfishness, vested interests, voting/supporting groups, governance, idealism and delivery are all part of kingdoms, parties and government. The real politik is how to balance all these. Karnataka has its own flavor and highest amount of BJP coffers by the way flowed from Karnataka. The persons who are giving money to political parties never ever will give it for free. It is same case whether it is US or India.

Advani knows everything and is a part of it. He is writing those things that no party's tall leaders around the world will write. He is the biggest dissident now. That MLC is just showing the mirror to him.
Last edited by Muppalla on 18 May 2013 17:25, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Pranav »

Sanku wrote:
Pranav wrote:
For the record a lot of people are saying that the Loh Purush is the real B team.

Re Adani why should anybody take a stand until there is a proper structured debate between the 2 sides.
Stop avoiding the question and trying to change the topic. I think there is enough matter on the ground to show Kujliwal is a liar, there needs to be no debate, just like there was no need for debate on 2002. Only people with ulterior motives of shady types will believe 2002 or Khujliwal.

Either you have done your home work and support the accusation of AAP or you think they are liars after doing your homework. What is this complete avoidance of, I have no idea what is the matter here, but I will ask for a debate just because some random idiot some where has leveled some charges?

Do you think Khujliwal has shown prima facie evidence that any one needs to defend? Yes or no.

I am asking for YOUR opinion. You can not say "I have no opinion" and at the same time always support AAP. Chose.
In my opinion, those who are in public life should respond to criticism, rather than ignore it, brazen it out or use ad-hominem tactics. Even if the criticism comes from an ordinary humble citizen.

So yes, I would welcome a response to the allegations Re Adani etc.

The same standards would apply to all political orgs, including the AAP.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Sanku »

varunkumar wrote:Pranav: All I can say is that in your eagerness to associate yourself with AAP, you have become blind. If Kejriwal is acceptable, then Setlavad and Harsh Mander should be acceptable too because they are also eating from the same trough.
Sir, Pranav ji has not "become" blind, he has always been like this onlee. Which is of course not a problem, but what galls me is the same person who will run down NaMo with the likes of Kejriwal and supports anti national people who are in bed with both Congress and outside forces, will turn around and come back and bleed his heart for India and BJP.

I wonder how that all connects.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Sanku »

Muppalla wrote:^^^
No one is praising Yeddi.
IMVHO, there has been a lot of Yeddi or bust, despite all the sheer stupidity (not even going into morality) by Yeddi. Yeddi should be brought back in etc.

I would be very happy if Yeddi ji comes back, but he should not be the old Yeddi. Meanwhile, I think he did sell out to congress, so all such hopes of having Yeddi back and blaming LKA for not supporting Yeddi is not done.
If you dig really and honestly the same, you will get startling results of Advani and several others. All these are not factors at all in real politik. .
Sir HUGE difference between can be done and had been done. Yeddi too was supported till the very very end. So Yeddi has only himself to blame for being stupid. Its not anyones fault.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Pranav »

varunkumar wrote:Pranav: All I can say is that in your eagerness to associate yourself with AAP, you have become blind. If Kejriwal is acceptable, then Setlavad and Harsh Mander should be acceptable too because they are also eating from the same trough.
Where did you get the idea that I am "eager to associate with" someone or the other. Just because I don't go around shouting slogans like our friend Sanku here?

I do welcome anybody working for any proposal that is in national interest.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Sanku »

Pranav wrote:
varunkumar wrote:Pranav: All I can say is that in your eagerness to associate yourself with AAP, you have become blind. If Kejriwal is acceptable, then Setlavad and Harsh Mander should be acceptable too because they are also eating from the same trough.
Where did you get the idea that I am "eager to associate with" someone or the other. Just because I don't go around shouting slogans like our friend Sanku here?

I do welcome anybody working for any proposal that is in national interest.
You are trying to avoid fundamental questions on what you stand for, let us worry about national interests later, let us talk about your interests first shall we?

Then we will see how they align to national interests, we can all decide for ourselves whether your claim is valid or not.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Muppalla »

Sanku wrote:I would be very happy if Yeddi ji comes back, but he should not be the old Yeddi. Meanwhile, I think he did sell out to congress, so all such hopes of having Yeddi back and blaming LKA for not supporting Yeddi is not done.
No, there is a slight difference. Yeddi was pushed to that state knowing well he is not a hugely BJP idealist in the first place. Even when BJP was small, Yeddi threatened to split the party and create a government unless allowed to go in coalition with Kumaraswamy. The party did not have any lofty ideals at that time. In fact Advani was far bigger leader than what he is now. He is a known entity for BJP top folks. It is a fact he will go after or with anyone to get to power and managing him has to be based on the know facts. Reddy brothers, Yeddi and similar stuff is all allowed under the nose of Advani. When Advani was bidding in 2009 for PM ship this is all the same. So Advani taking a Godly position doesn't cut ice.

Bringing back Yeddi is unknown stuff. BJP is as good as over in KA and probably it will whither out.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Murugan »

In which vid namo said, gujarat ke chunav me humko vote mile aur note bhi?
.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Muppalla »

Sanku wrote:Sir HUGE difference between can be done and had been done. Yeddi too was supported till the very very end. So Yeddi has only himself to blame for being stupid. Its not anyones fault.
What is that "till the end"? There is no till the end unless the party has really found a man/folks who can win the state even after dumping Yeddi. So they did it before the end. In case of MP they found Shivraj Singh and dumping Uma for her antics has no problem to party. The party was saved. In Gujarat they found Modi. Whom did they really find in KA to take a drastic action?
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by member_20317 »

Pranav wrote:
ravi_g wrote: Pranav ji, basic principle of accountability is matching of inflows and outflows. This is accounting and is the first step in creating accountability.

Let the AAP present its programs matched to their cash outflows and then match those outflows to their cash inflows. Till then its all up in the air.

Besides lists of donors, they publish audited accounts too, iirc.

Well founded and careful criticism of any political org is always welcome.
Pranav ji,

I used to make audited balance sheets for Real estate firms till some years back and these used to get accepted by bankers, authorities and basically the whole world. My khujli with AK is far surpassed by other khujlis esp. towards the society turning a blind eye to its own common sense and relying instead on the nicely packaged words otherwise called Statutes. I am not trying to convert you. I am rather confident that you would begin to understand a few things as time goes by. The propaganda is pernicious that after a point it is beyond me too to resist effectively.

Anyhow audited balance sheets would be available for other parties too, say for example Kongis, if not to you and me then absolutely definitely to the relevant authorities. People still accuse Kongis of corruption.

My suggestion is not about balance sheet per-se. It is more about tying up loose ends of 'reality on the ground' with the 'inflows and outflows'. I do not fault you on this count since even the seasoned accountants do not do that despite there being an obligation cast on them in this respect. And the really sticky thing is that despite the strong test that I am suggesting you still do not get a guarantee. In such a situation approaching these matters like an engineer is fraught with risks that you may not yet understand.
Last edited by member_20317 on 18 May 2013 17:50, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Sanku »

Muppalla wrote:Advani taking a Godly position doesn't cut ice.
It is political posturing, but useful in the short term to push Congress. Advani is making a virtue of necessity. I understand that.

Right now it is one of the pain points that can be exploited, so some nautanki is necessary, and I do not think Siroya does not understand this, any one in politics wont weaken a plank (however undeserved) of your party.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Sanku »

Muppalla wrote: What is that "till the end"?
Till they were outbid by congress. As simple as that.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Pranav »

Niti Central has published another open letter to Advani -

On reading Advani’s blog … By Praveen Patil - http://www.niticentral.com/2013/05/18/o ... 79264.html

Dear Advaniji,

Sir, I have had the good fortune of attending more than a dozen of your public rallies across many cities and States over the last two decades; the latest being the one you addressed in the national college grounds of Bangalore in 2011 as part of your nationwide rath yatra against corruption. If you remember sir, in late 2011, when you addressed a mammoth rally of some 30 thousand odd people in Bangalore, it had started to rain heavily just as you began to speak. Organisers and BJP functionaries were worried that the people would rush out of the national college grounds to protect themselves from the wrath of the rain gods. But nothing of that sort happened on that day. People simply stood up and picked up the plastic chairs to raise them above their heads to shield themselves. They braved that incessant Bangalore rain to listen to you. That is how much the people of Bangalore and India loved you and respected you.

Exactly two decades ago, in 1991, you and Vajpayee ji addressed a huge rally in Mumbai where I was once again fortunate enough to be present. If you remember sir, the moment you faced the mike to speak out, there was an uproarious cry of ‘Jai Shri Ram’ from the gathered masses. Even though Vajpayee ji was known for his oratorical skills, a vast majority of the people in that gathering had come to listen to you, that is how much the people of Mumbai and India loved you and respected you.

Alas! Love and respect of the ordinary masses come with a sell-by date. Retirement at the peak is an art that Indians have rarely understood, thus we have a 40 something Sachin Tendulkar still wanting to play a game which has long moved past him. Advani ji, every day that you spend involved in active politics is costing you the love of a million of your fans / followers. Please ask yourself tonight after dinner, is the opium of active politics more important than the love and respect of ordinary Indians?

History is an unkindest of judges that human civilisation has bestowed upon us. History has no time for subtleties for it is devoid of human emotions and lacks the leisure of deciphering intentions. If history can be cruel enough to degrade the architect of Indian economic reforms into a modern day Nero who presided over the most corrupt regime India had ever seen, then history can be equally scathing to judge the father of modern India’s right-wing movement as just a faction leader of the BJP. This is how much time and tide have turned against you, sir.

Karnataka is the latest symptom of the disease

The BJP of Karnataka is not a disease sir, it is just the symptom of the underlying illness that the party is suffering from. Losing Karnataka is not the antidote for that disease as you have wrongly prescribed, in fact, the very opposite is true.

One of the last decisions that you, as the patriarch and guide, should take before quitting active politics is to assert that BJP is a political party and not a voluntary organisation. Sir, in a democracy, a political party exists to win elections and not to win TV studio debates or hash tag wars on Twitter. BJP is not RSS.

By choosing electoral defeat as a way forward to cure the perceived moral decline, you are committing a crime sir. It is a criminal act against the vast number of ordinary karyakartas of Karnataka who, by their sweat and blood, brought your party to power in south India. Pray, what are you telling these ordinary karyakartas? You are telling them that their sweat and blood was in vain, because you have decided to surrender the State to win a hollow moral victory over Congress/UPA in television studios!

Sir, you have always been politically correct in your utterances and actions over the decades. You have always addressed even your worst enemies with utmost respect. In fact, despite all her misdeeds and corruption, you have always addressed Sonia Gandhi as ‘Sonia ji’. Thus, to see you use a pejorative term of ‘Yeddi’ to address the former CM of Karnataka, was heart-breaking to say the least. Ask yourself sir, is this the way you would treat someone who has toiled hard for more than 4 decades to build your party in a south-Indian State, notwithstanding whatever differences you have developed lately? If the most vile and most corrupt ‘Sonia ji’ has acquired more respect in your political lexicon than the unwashed Yeddyurappa, then am afraid Indian Right has hit a new nadir.

The abolition of Jagirdari system and the Jan Sangh/BJP’s growth in Rajasthan is an inspiring tale indeed. But, sir, that is totally out of context to the Karnataka conundrum. What is more relevant to Karnataka is what happened in UP just a decade or so ago. The caste-matrix of Karnataka has its parallels in the muddy politics of UP and not in the royally majestic Rajasthan.

In Uttar Pradesh too, a section of upper caste BJP leaders decided to lose an election just to wrest the control of the party from Kalyan Singh. One election loss proved to be one too many, until today, when the BJP has been reduced to a bit player in the largest State.

If UP-isation of Karnataka is the solitary goal that BJP can aim at, then bringing back Yeddyurappa after a decade in wilderness, when he would be a spent force, is the ideal path to follow. Is this what you want to achieve Advani ji? Or do you believe that Anant Kumar ji will wake up one day and suddenly find himself the darling of Kannadigas by sheer magic? Let me remind you sir, that the possibility of the Kalraj Mishras and Lalji Tandons ever becoming mass leaders shrinks from 10 per cent to 3 per cent by the time it reaches the Anant Kumars and Prahlad Joshis, while traversing from UP to Karnataka.

Can the lies of the media beguile the patriarch?

For someone with such a legendary political acumen, it is surprising to note this new-found belief in unverified news reports churned by the usual suspects of Indian mainstream media. Sir, do you sincerely believe that Sonia Gandhi is acting against the corrupt Ministers of the UPA Government against the wishes of the PM? At the same time, you seem to believe that Yeddyurappa indulged in “unabashed corruption” as the CM of Karnataka!

Such callous statements by one of the founding fathers of the BJP leave not only the loyal karyakartas but us ordinary followers in complete disarray. When and how did you decide that Sonia-led Congress is fighting corruption, while BSY was the epitome of immorality?

Sir, you must pay a private visit to Bangalore, while you are at it, just take along any businessman well-versed with Bangalore’s realty scenario for a guided tour of the city and its surroundings. If you ever venture out to do so, you will get the real picture. You will find out that vast tracts of land belong to various politicians of many political parties. “SM Krishna’s son in law”, “Dharam Singh’s son”, “Deve Gowda’s relatives”, “Kumaraswamy” and even “Muttappa Rai” would be some of the names you will hear in this connection. The missing name will be that of “Yeddiyurappa and his sons or relatives”. That is the story that you have totally missed in your blind love for a certain Bangalore MP. The media and the intellectual brigade have either beguiled you with partial facts or you have deliberately chosen to remain blind.

Karnataka is not an exception sir, India is at stake here. Do we Indians deserve another UPA term, just so that you can play your moral one-upmanship? India is fed up with Congress and its non-governance, but please spare the country a moral lecture from Dilli and instead offer a winning alternative. If there is one thing and the only thing that you can do as your last act of nirvana, please liberate BJP from the clutches of Dilli. That should be the only lesson that BJP should learn from Karnataka, rest is all gloss.

Thank You,

A disheartened BJP supporter
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Arunkumar »

Murugan wrote:In which vid namo said, gujarat ke chunav me humko vote mile aur note bhi?
.
I think it was in the conference hosted by Rahul kanwal (India today conf 2013). It was in respect to questionn of fund collection drive.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by chetak »

^^
The BJP "high command" is not as blameless as they make themselves out to be!!

Vishwamitra was a Great Saint Until Menaka Danced Before Him: Or The Story of the BJP

By Sandeep
– May 16, 2013

Note: This is a translation of Pratap Simha’s column in Kannada Prabha entitled, Menake Bandu Kuniyuvavaregu Vishwamitra Mahatapaswiyaagidda. BJPya katheyu haage aaytu! published on 11 May 2013.

Who do we need to blame amongst these: B.S. Yeddyurappa, K.S. Eshwarappa, Jagadish Shettar, Ananth Kumar, Sushma Swaraj, Lal Krishna Advani, and Nitin Gadkari? Who do we hold accountable? Was the Karnataka BJP reduced to this pathetic state thanks to just one person? Or was it the combined “efforts” of these leaders that led to the ignominious end of the first BJP Government in the South in just five years? You might have heard of the Bay of Pigs invasion. That was the brainchild of the CIA which armed the rebels against the Cuban dictator Fidel Castro in order to unseat him. The invasion occurred on 17 April 1961. However, Castro suppressed this uprising in just three days. Meanwhile, back in the U.S. everybody pointed fingers at this “failure” squarely at John F Kennedy. It was during this phase that Kennedy gave us the memorable "Victory has a thousand fathers; defeat is an orphan” quote.

But…

When the BJP formed its first Government in South India in 2008, the leader who questionably championed it to electoral victory was B.S. Yeddyurappa. However, when we observe the shocking drubbing it received on 8 May 2013, we see a thousand leaders responsible for it.

How did the BJP even reach such a humiliating state?

The BJP has stormed back to power in Gujarat thrice in a row and is all set to retain power for a third consecutive time in Madhya Pradesh and Chattisgarh. Manohar Parrikar has already been earned kudos for his governance in Goa. In Rajasthan, the BJP’s prospects to capture power are looking increasingly bright. If this is has been the case with the BJP in various states in the country, why did so much mud stick to it in Karnataka? Just as a leader earns laurels for doing good work, it becomes imperative on him/her to shoulder the responsibility when things go wrong.

Therefore, was B.S. Yeddyurappa, the man who built the BJP in Karnataka from the scratch, an avaricious leader? He was the Deputy Chief Minister in the JDS-BJP coalition Government in 2006 headed by the Chief Minister H.D. Kumaraswamy. In those days, the Sangh Parivar sent one of its own members to the Deputy Chief Minister’s office in order to stem the rot of corruption and middlemen that were littered all over the administration. Yeddyurappa welcomed the move, a demonstration of his commitment for the welfare of the people of Karnataka. Back then, liquor used to be distributed to wine shops through private agents. In a bid to increase the revenue to the state coffers, Yeddyurappa decided to eliminate these agents and reorganize liquor distribution through the state-owned MSIL. Alarmed by this move, the lobby of these private agents approached him with a massive booty, which he refused to touch. He formed a team headed by the then Tax Commissioner Harish Gowda and launched innovative schemes for filling up the state’s treasury and embarked on a series of pro-people programmes. It was around this time that the Chief Minister Kumaraswamy announced a complete waiver of farmers’ loans. Yeddyurappa who was also the Finance Minister opposed this move. Meanwhile, the person deputed by the Sangh to Yeddyurappa’s office also launched Breakfast with the Deputy Chief Minister, an initiative aimed at promoting dialogue and enhancing relations between the Legislators, MPs, and the Party. Legislators, MPs, and party heads of various districts began visiting the Deputy CM everyday for breakfast to discuss their needs, fund allocations for development projects, and ideas on strengthening the party. The idea had a good impact: it built a healthy rapport right from the top between the Deputy CM all the way down to local leaders.

This however, didn’t go down well with a few sycophants who surrounded Yeddyurappa.

Till date, even if Dr. Parameshwar (President of the Karnataka Unit of the Congress Party) or Chief Minister Siddaramaiah needs to meet Sonia Gandhi, they need to first make a call to Oscar Fernandes. In the past, this place was decorated by Margaret Alva. Thus, just like how Oscar, Alva, and Ahmed Patel are to Sonia Gandhi, Shobha Karandlaje and Siddalingaswamy are to Yeddyurappa. The duo now upped their antennae. A fort was suddenly built around Yeddyurappa. The Deputy CM who had genuine concern for the plight of farmers and the state was forced—for various reasons—to endure the unquenchable avarice of such people.

Meanwhile, Kumaraswamy reneged on his promise of giving up the Chief Ministership to Yeddyurappa. Elections were announced on 25 May 2008. Although the BJP romped home with 110 seats, anxiety still prevailed in their camp. There was the danger of the Congress (with 80 seats) and the JDS (with 28 seats) teaming up again with a combined tally of 108 seats. In such circumstances, the BJP was successful in securing the support of 6 Independent MLAs and forming the Government. However, these MLAs were rebels who had walked out of either the Congress or the JDS. Thus, the danger of them returning back to the mother ship was always present. This danger didn’t go away despite giving ministerial berths to five of these Independents. It was then that the BJP embarked on “Operation Kamala,” an episode that directly axes at the foundational aspirations of an electoral democracy. Now, it required at least 5-6 crores to get one MLA to crossover to the BJP, and then it would require another 15-20 crores to win the by-elections as a result of the defection. The mind boggles when we try and compute the amount of money that would have been required to pull 11 MLAs to the BJP’s side. It was then that the party looked at the Bellary Reddy Brothers and Sriramulu.

That only worsened the condition even further. The Reddy Brothers began to openly strut around claiming that it was they who put the BJP in power. They thumbed their nose at the Chief Minister himself and embarked on a spree of arrogance. They held the first batch of MLAs who came over as a result of Operation Kamala in their vise-like grip. Thus, in a bid to rein in both external and internal enemies, Yeddyurappa launched a second round of Operation Kamala. This time, he handpicked people of his own caste and gave them prominent positions in the Government so that his own seat would remain secure. In a line, Yeddyurappa began to spend more time trying to insure his seat than looking into the affairs of the state and the welfare of the people.

The BJP celebrated its second year in Government at the Bangalore palace grounds. Guess who Sushma Swaraj—who flew down all the way from Delhi—praised on the occasion? She sang mellifluous praises of the good work done by Sriramulu, Janaradhan Reddy, and Karunakara Reddy, and didn’t have a single word for Chief Minister Yeddyurappa who had by then put into motion several innovative and pro-people programmes. When such incidents occur, isn’t it but obvious for the Chief Minister to feel jittery?

Yeddyurappa now began to suspect everyone in the party thanks to such episodes, not to mention his numerous run-ins with the wily Ananth Kumar. For Ananth Kumar, this was a God-sent opportunity. He had been sitting idle for 9 years without doing any productive work, and had been whiling away his time spending the money that he had earned when he was a Minister. This is the same Ananth Kumar whose jealousy made him squelch the prospects of another Brahmin leader Suresh Kumar, who has the reputation of being a clean politician. Indeed, prominent members in the Sangh Parivar aver that Ananth Kumar helped Congress party’s leader N.L. Narendra Babu to defeat Suresh Kumar in the 2004 elections. Therefore, would Ananth Kumar, his eyes set on the Chief Minister’s chair, spare Yeddyurappa? It was Ananth Kumar’s hidden hand that engineered the phony rebellion drama led by the Reddy Brothers. The outcome? Jagadish Shettar who was the Speaker became a Minister. However, Yeddyurappa who is sentimental by nature never understood such cabals.

In any case, whatever ensues whenever intra-party fights break out, when there’s mutual distrust, and when everybody lusts for power, also ensued with the BJP. The sage Vishwamitra was a great renunciate until the heavenly damsel Menaka worked her charms on him. In pretty much the same way, the BJP’s weaknesses came out in the open the moment they were confronted with power and money. Even then, things could have been salvaged had the Central BJP leadership come over to Karnataka, worked out a plan for intra-party harmony, and thrown its weight fully behind Yeddyurappa. The party leadership would have then had the moral right to demand accountability from Yeddyurappa if things went wrong. Instead, they repeatedly sent the postman, Dharmendra Pradhan. Even worse, Sushma Swaraj began to behave as if she was the representative of the Reddy Brothers while a senior leader like L.K. Advani acted as if he was Ananth Kumar’s mouthpiece. The consequence: both the Government and the party hurtled towards the ditch. Thanks to the detractors in his own party’s High Command and a media witch hunt, Yeddyurappa was isolated.

The name of the person in the BJP who made hay even as the party was in such doldrums is Dr. Kalladka Prabhakara Bhat who hails from the (undivided) South Canara belt of Mangalore-Udupi. If the BJP today has been thoroughly routed in this region winning just two out of 15 seats, the entire responsibility of the defeat lies squarely on Dr. Prabhakara Bhat’s shoulders. His haughtiness was extraordinary. What most people also forget is the fact that if the South Canara is a BJP stronghold, majority of the credit goes to Jagadish Karanth, and not Prabhakara Bhat. However, Bhat began to project himself as the builder and the pillar of the Sangh Parivar and the party in South Canara. In the guise of doing social good through his school, he embarked on a “collection” drive. This drive became so shameless that it knocked on the doors of even the Kollur Mookambika temple! It was in this connection that a feud erupted between him and Vajpayee Haladi Srinivasa Shetty who hails from Kundapur. He made sure that Srinivasa Shetty was denied a cabinet berth. His arrogant, octopus-like tentacles spread everywhere from temple managements to the Tulu Academy. His loyalists became heads and members of these institutions. Equally, his sycophants like Srikar Prabhu too showed their true colours. The result: selfless party workers began to distance themselves from the party. It was Prabhakara Bhat who tried to deny the election ticket to a decent candidate like Yogish Bhat in favour of his sycophant, the selfsame Srikar Prabhu. When this was unsuccessful, he tried to sabotage Yogish Bhat’s chances. He was also responsible for throwing strong Bunt leaders like Nagaraj Shetty, Shakunthala Shetty, and Haladi Srinivas out of the party. Thus, thanks solely to Prabhakara Bhat, the election results have convincingly shown how the Bunt community has distanced itself from the BJP. He also rendered Kumble Sundarrao, Vinayachandra, Karkala Vijaykumar, Rukmayya Poojary, and Rama Bhat into insignificance. In Bantwal, he ensured that the ticket was given to an industrialist instead of the deserving Padmanabha Kothari thus ensuring the BJP’s defeat. When one observes all this, it is clear that the victories of Haladi Srinivas Shetty and Shakunthala Shetty are nothing but resounding slaps on the face of Prabhakara Bhat.

If the alienation of the Bunts is one side of the story, the other side is even more perverse. Prabhakar Bhat who wanted the Billava and the Mogaveera communities to take the brunt during dire times forgot them when it came to sharing power. Thanks to Bhat, these two communities never received their rightful representation in any area. The unfortunate folks from these communities who went to prison in the pub and the Home Stay episodes are still rotting in prison. It is difficult to find instances in South Canara where the fingers of Brahmins have been hurt. However, those who sacrificed almost everything for the Sangh and the party hailed from the Billava and the Mogaveera communities. Prabhakar Bhat simply, cynically used them. The result is evident in the poll results.

A parallel…

The answer as to what would happen to the BJP if Yeddyurappa quit is as clear as daylight, across the state. Simultaneously, it has also exposed the kind of phony leaders that Ananth Kumar, Eshwarappa, Jagadish Shettar et al really are. Perhaps, the BJP Central leadership has by now received a rude reality check as to the exact kind of “leader” that Ananth Kumar is.

According to G. Madhusudan of the BJP, “Yeddyurappa may be short-tempered, but he’s not a person to hold grudges.” It’s true that while Yeddyurappa is short-tempered, he’s certainly not spurious like most of the so-called BJP leaders of Karnataka. The sooner the BJP Central leadership realizes this fact, the sooner they put forth a conciliatory proposal to him and re-induct him into the party with full honour, the better are the BJP’s chances in the 2014 General Elections. Else, Karnataka will most definitely turn out to be another Uttar Pradesh as far as the BJP is concerned. If it does not re-induct Yeddyurappa, its fate in Karnataka will be the same as that in Uttar Pradesh after it unceremoniously, humiliatingly dumped Kalyan Singh.

Beware!
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Pranav »

ravi_g wrote: My suggestion is not about balance sheet per-se. It is more about tying up loose ends of 'reality on the ground' with the 'inflows and outflows'.
If it is clear that they are spending more on the ground than what they are getting in donations, then it would indeed be problematic. For example, they got donations of some 42 lakhs during the 28 days of Feb 2013 - http://aamaadmiparty.org/Media%20Files/ ... Summry.jpg . Their operations are mainly restricted to Delhi and they seem to rely on unpaid volunteers, for the most part.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by member_20317 »

Pranav ji, If we consider the white in the hands of political parties:

Kongis would manage around 330 Cr p.a. of declared funding ~10% declared donors (20k+ walas) from all over India.

BJP around 170 Cr p.a. and ~20% declared donors (20k+ walas) respectively from all over India.

BSP (SP :)) around 245 Cr p.a. with 0-1% declared donors from UP.

CPM around 70 Cr p.a. with 50% declared donors from 2 states.

For AAP to to get that much money for a small place like Delhi NCR could easily lead to a 5 Cr p.a. (adding the foreign misc. it could be 8-10 Cr pa). Extrapolating that for the whole country coverage would require pretty much the same kind of money that others need. So where is the difference. And he is also getting the same kind of manpower support that others are getting both quality and quantity wise.

So yes that is why we are worried. AK has shown that he can hijack a lot more then his competitors. Just look at the proficiency with which AK has purged the AAP. The silver lining is the result after he gets the dekko. I am also waiting for his debut, its going to be interesting. Only thing I am sad for is my old city Delhi. Delhi keeps oscillating from one dumb idea to another and leads the country in generic stupidity.

People keep looking for the perfect solution. The incremental, the integrative is just not in the picture.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by RamaY »

A group of relatives started a small Yajna with an objective of getting a deshabhakt PM for Bharat. The Yajna will happen for 100 days with every day offering 1000 lotus flowers using this verse from Sri Rudram

"Namo vah kirikebhyo devana hridayebhyo namo vikshinakebhyo namo vichinvatkebhyo"
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Hari Seldon »

Misleading title from TOI, full of old news at that. Their daily dose of Modi to keep attracting eyeballs or what?

Modi juggernaut rolls into UP
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Sushupti »

Modi is living embodiment of Rajiv Malhotra's idea of "Integral Unity".
Narendra Modi: India losing sheen as agricultural nation

See more at: http://www.indianexpress.com/news/naren ... IrDZW.dpuf
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Hari Seldon »

Modi is my leader: Raman Singh

Nice. Need more folks at the state level and above (and below) to say the same thing. Will deflate the trial balloons being floated by the dilliu-billi gang of the bjp high-on-something command...
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Yagnasri »

Raman Singh is very well respected leader. His endorcement of NaMo is very important. Media tried to divide Chouhan of MP.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Arjun »

It's time for the BJP to say 'Modi for PM'
That the Karnataka debacle is an exception and not the trend is obvious from the political indications that are available from the states going to the polls in November this year. In all the four major poll-bound states, the BJP is in ascendance and is unlikely to concede political space to its principal rival — the Congress. For example, in both Madhya Pradesh and Chhattisgarh, the two chief ministers Shivraj Singh Chauhan and Raman Singh have converted their domain into invincible fiefdoms. In Jaipur, Rajasthan chief minister Ashok Gehlot and his party are in complete disarray. Even Sheila Dikshit is looking vulnerable in Delhi where she had performed a commendable hat-trick.

In fact, if Parliamentary polls were held within the next few months, a tainted, shattered Congress would have found it difficult to cross the 125-seat mark — a long way down from its previous 200-plus tally. In the northern and the western states, the Congress is expected to fare badly wherever it is directly pitted against the BJP. In Gujarat, Narendra Modi will continue to hold sway. In Maharashtra, the Shiv Sena-BJP combine may substantially better its score when compared to the last election, and in Haryana, the Bhupinder Hooda charm is fading away. In Punjab, there is no reason to believe that the Akali Dal-BJP alliance is in decline.

But does that mean the BJP surges ahead and forms the next Union government? No, definitely not. The BJP is still severely restricted by its narrow geography and has not really grown beyond its present western and northern boundaries. It may at best reach a tally of 170. And the Congress-BJP taken together will cross the majority mark of 272 by a wafer-thin margin leaving an amount of political space under the control of the Third Front flag-bearers. Mulayam, Mayawati, Mamata, Jayalalithaa, Naveen and Jagan are all capable of picking up a significant percentage of the seats in their respective strongholds.

No doubt, the average BJP worker has realised that the party needs a bigger impetus if the Third Front aspirants are to be kept at bay. And to them this impetus is called the Modi phenomenon.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by RajeshA »

Narayana Rao wrote:Raman Singh is very well respected leader. His endorcement of NaMo is very important. Media tried to divide Chouhan of MP.
Modi is also collecting endorsements by BJP's state leaders. He would need them. His canvassing in Karnataka was also meant to not let the Karnataka BJP unit down. Kalyan Singh has already come out in favor of Modi.

Hopefully Manohar Parrikar, CM of Goa too would come forward and express his support. Shivraj Singh Chauhan however would stand apart from Modi and would become the sanctuary for the Jinnah loving seculars in the BJP. He seems to opening up to Islamic demands as well.. However as long as he gets the necessary Lok Sabha members from BJP elected Al iz well!
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Sanku »

^^
Ok its now SSC's turn to be villianized, lampooned etc is it?

RajeshA ji, I understand that the cause of NaMo for PM is something that is close to your heart, however it is important to not score self goals by the hundreds while we are at it.

The amount of bad mouthing of any and all political figures which have even vaguely been "suspected" of being against NaMo as PM in that has happened on BRF over last few months is going to ensure that if NaMo does become the PM candidate, he will get about 1 vote outside Gujarat.

Had I been from MP and given to emotions, you would have ENSURED that I see NaMo as an anti SSC, imperious figure, whose hordes will run down anyone who has a different opinion.

If you think that asking for "NaMo or bust" is a way of pressurizing BJP to bring him forward, you would be very well advised to rethink the tactics of that strategy.
Last edited by Sanku on 19 May 2013 21:41, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by member_20317 »

RajeshA ji, you cannot deny the logic behind Sanku ji's appeal.

The premise of a political career is an enlightened self interest. If SSC finally gets to go ahead of NM then that would have more to do with the larger politics of the country then with a SSC vs. NM fight mano-a-mano. SSC is wise enough to know that he himself should not break the line and he has done nothing of that sort. Raman Singh and Vasundhara Raje too have acknowledged expressly the seniority+capability of NM. Parrikar has given a Cosmo reply but that is only because he would himself want to fall on the right side of power politics.

I am afraid NaMo is not endangered by the existence of SSC. Internal challange remains primarily LKA. And much more importantly the external threat remains Kongis and their B teams.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by RajeshA »

Sanku ji,

I am not turning anybody into a villain. There will always be factions in BJP, and like in any party that is natural. I am simply pointing out the power-center around which the non-Modi faction would coalesce.

There is a faction in BJP too which feels that BJP should try to build good relations with Muslims. For many reasons, especially electoral reasons, even that is understandable. Even Modi has tried to normalize relations towards Muslims. I don't see anything wrong with that, as long as one is not confused about his Bharatiya/Hindu interests.

In fact, I don't think that SSC would be harming Modi much, especially as he could provide BJP with a solid number of Lok Sabha MPs from MP. I even pointed at this.

But the non-Modi faction in BJP can harm BJP's prospects if they are allowed to interfere elsewhere in India, i.e. outside Madhya Pradesh. That is something I do believe. However as long as the faction provides more MPs to BJP's tally, whether they're pledged to Modi or not, is something that is welcome.

So just being in non-Modi faction is for me not a reason to consider somebody a villain!
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by RajeshA »

ravi_g ji,

I agree with you!
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Muppalla »

SSC is not going to fall for this media circus. He may also endorse NaMo pretty soon. I am again telling Modi's endorsement via an BJP's electoral college is over. NaMo endorsement by highest hindu Gods after Gods (santsadhu sabha in Haridwar) is also complete. BJP is just trying not to ruffle the tall leaders and make the announcement and transition smooth. If push comes to shove the tall and mighty will also be discarded but I hope that stage will not come.
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