Islamic Britain & The Compromised Western Civilization

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 23 May 2013 10:01

That is a big if. They the British lost it after a calm and cunning half-naked hindu fakir wearing a loin cloth made them give up the jewel even after their fakery of tightening the belts.

Comer · Post by **Comer** » 23 May 2013 10:48

I am surprised BBC calls it a terrorist attack. It looks like a couple of knifemen.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 23 May 2013 12:07

from the eye witness interviews on tv - in the initial stages it looked like a road traffic accident and the two attackers appeared to be helping the victim, so a lot of people stopped to come and offer help. apparently they then told men to go away and only women were allowed to approach. one of the men had a handgun which he was waving around - which kept most spectators at bay. a group of school children had to be hurriedly moved away. the women who offered to intervene were indeed very brave. There are confusing reports of whether the victim was beheaded or not, but he was first run over and then stabbed multiple times very savagely.

the regular police arrived quite quickly but kept a cordon around the scene. armed police arrived in 20mins. when the police moved forward the two men apparently charged forward with their weapons. that is when they were shot. witnesses report two double taps and one of the armed cops was a woman - who apparently did the shooting.

listening to the man who spoke to the camera - he sounds like a london raised black guy - so wondering where his islamist credentials are. the manner of the attack and the subsequent behaviour suggests more mentally disturbed behaviour than anything else

apparently before this, two separate planned attacks against service men have been foiled. one recent case was of birmingham based pakistani descent citizens planning to abduct and behead a british soldier of pakistani descent.

panduranghari · Post by **panduranghari** » 23 May 2013 12:47

RamaY wrote:I don't call it bravery. It is public apathy, may be something to do with Britain. I think all Britishers should hang their heads with shame and contemplate what message they are sending to their children.

Its a repraisal against war conducted in dar-ul-islam. So the war has come to dar-ul-harab. Now there is a clamour by secular media in India and west to call this murder not islamic terrorism. As their numbers increase in England, soon they will clamour for more and more.

Brits kind of deserve this wake up call. This man was a naturalised citizen who was initially given asylum. The hand that was feeding them is now being bitten.

panduranghari · Post by **panduranghari** » 23 May 2013 12:49

Prem Kumar wrote:The Islamists have overplayed their hand. Its a high visibility, low impact attack. If the Brits are smart about this, they will keep this issue burning in the media and use it to introduce tough immigration legislation

I hope not. I hope Brits open borders for all pakistanis. India will atleast have some peace then if all Pakjabis are living in Londonistan.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 23 May 2013 14:44

Lalmohan wrote:listening to the man who spoke to the camera - he sounds like a london raised black guy - so wondering where his islamist credentials are. the manner of the attack and the subsequent behaviour suggests more mentally disturbed behaviour than anything else

apparently before this, two separate planned attacks against service men have been foiled. one recent case was of birmingham based pakistani descent citizens planning to abduct and behead a british soldier of pakistani descent.

In the Boston Bombing case, I speculated that the ISI may be now moving on to brainwash and train people of other nationalities in Jihad and terror.

In order for the British and other Western countries to appreciate ISI intelligence cooperation, it is necessary to keep a certain level of Jihadist threat alive.

It seems the Pakistanis may slowly be moving up the Islamic food chain willing to use others as their niggas - Somalis, Boko Haram Nigerians, etc.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 23 May 2013 15:15

boko haram came to mind for me too
there have been british special forces involved in missions against boko haram recently
and there is a large west african community in london

that the focus has moved from 'south asians' to 'clean skins' has been debated for some time now - chechens and possibly balkan muslims for sure (i.e. white looking) but also nigerians... (that might be the achhiles heel)

Rajdeep · Post by **Rajdeep** » 23 May 2013 15:23

Is there any info available on the ethnicity of the second guy who was with the black guy (who talked on camera) ?

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 23 May 2013 15:36

AFP suggesting both attackers had Nigerian connections

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 23 May 2013 16:48

Apparently nigerian convert. spoke with a london accent so brought up in uk. Anjem chaudhury says he knows one of them. So its one of those islam4uk types.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 23 May 2013 16:52

bbc breaking news - both men were 'known' to the security services. their homes have been raided and people in them taken away by police. one name is out there - very clearly west african

last night dhimmi knee jerk reaction was to tell soldiers to not wear uniform outside base. this morning dawood kamran has rescinded that instruction - urges normal behaviour from public and for soldiers to wear uniform as normal

muslim speakers already claiming that these men 'could not have been muslim'

two mosques were firebombed last night

Rajdeep · Post by **Rajdeep** » 23 May 2013 18:04

Soldier's murder is attack on Britain, betrayal of Islam: David Cameron

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/worl ... 225818.cms

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 23 May 2013 18:13

Lalmohan wrote: listening to the man who spoke to the camera - he sounds like a london raised black guy - so wondering where his islamist credentials are. the manner of the attack and the subsequent behaviour suggests more mentally disturbed behaviour than anything else.

Lalmohan ji

If we start calling these acts as you say, implying that the individuals are peaceful, law-abiding citizens until the moment of rage where they commit these ghostly acts, then we solved the problem of terrorism and religious fanaticism permanently.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 23 May 2013 18:22

no i didn't say they were peaceful or normal - they may be either sane and politically motivated, or insane and personally motivated
in this particular case it is difficult to know which way to call it
[boston bombing i would say was sane and political]

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 23 May 2013 18:25

meanwhile, fourth night of street riots in stockholm in an "immigrant area" after allegations of heavy handed policing...

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 23 May 2013 18:36

From Russia Today reporting

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 23 May 2013 19:57

Thinking loud...

I wonder if these kind of random acts are part of Islamist strategy to force external powers stay away from their control regions.

Past two centuries the modus operandi of developed nations is to provide peace, progress and freedoms to their native societies while their militaries do the dirty work in remote regions to expand western geopolitical interests. Now by creating these random incidents, Islamists are disturbing this equation and influencing the native societies to force their governments from acting in Islamist controlled regions.

This way Islamists can gain complete control over their core regions.

The west got freedom of maneuverability using international bodies. The islamists have the "freedom given in non-Islamic societies".

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 23 May 2013 20:28

^^^ i think that is viable, also they have delegated authority down to the grassroots - to let them attack opportunistically. it means fewer spectaculars, but more random acts that appear coherent with a wider strategy

Prem Kumar · Post by **Prem Kumar** » 23 May 2013 21:17

I dont think this was a planned attack with the blessing of some central or delegated Islamic authority. Its a PR disaster for the Islamists and all this for a casualty of 1 soldier. Pretty stupid for a jihadi attack, if you ask me.

If you listen to the video, the black guy says that he wanted the Brits to be shocked at the savagery because that's what women in his country see every day. That's why he and his buddy allowed women to come close and watch. He wanted them to feel traumatized, just like his women back home

This is neither an act of terror nor is it Islamic (at best religion is a side factor). It is simply an act of revenge born out of the anger against British military/mercenary savagery in Africa. Similar to the 2 Sikhs who went to England to kill Dyer for Jallianwala Bagh.

The Brits, of course, want to make this sound like an Islamic attack on their way of life.

Rather than focus on Islam, they should focus on their foreign policy which generates such hatred for them worldwide. This is something they wont introspect about, however because they still have the empire hangover.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 23 May 2013 21:32

Prem Kumar ji,

I don't agree with that evaluation. The man had converted to Islam. In Nigeria there isn't really any big presence of UK troops. So what revenge?

This is the exact kind of attack that would horrify UK the most. The fact that Islamic savagery is being outsourced to the Africans means that UK would need to be careful about a much bigger demography than just a few Pakis. The savagery in the open streets by a few is exactly what traumatizes the most, because it seems the state is losing all control. Concerted terrorist attack by many is something people can recognize as a terrorist attack. But such savagery, can be mind-numbing and people have difficulty getting their heads around it.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 23 May 2013 21:37

>> I dont think this was a planned attack with the blessing of some central or delegated Islamic authority.

I thought that _is_ the preferred attack route now...a distributed swarm of ants than a army of easily spotted elephants. nobody can really predict the who & where of which bee out of 10,000 will sting.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 23 May 2013 21:52

comment & response in the guardian:

> Sometimes just talking to people, and getting them to talk in turn, can calm a tense situation down.

>>Indeed. But I'm sure it won't be my natural reaction when some nut-case is running at me with a meat-cleaver, shouting Allahu Akhbar.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 23 May 2013 22:38

its a classic case of someone going along to after hours classes at the mosque and watching videos of women and children being blown up by nato bombs and abu ghraib, etc. and then hearing soothing voices about how the pure will avenge these wrongs - classic brainwashing

phillip posted a statement by anjem chaudhary on the uk dhaga - he is acknoweledging this attack whilst appearing to condemn it - he in fact is blessing the swarm attack methodology

member_22872 · Post by **member_22872** » 23 May 2013 22:48

At least on CBS, they didn't mention that the terrorist shouted "Allahu Akbar", instead they have drilling that down and said that the guy shouted "God is great" in Arabic.

Prem Kumar · Post by **Prem Kumar** » 23 May 2013 22:49

RajeshA wrote:Prem Kumar ji,

I don't agree with that evaluation. The man had converted to Islam. In Nigeria there isn't really any big presence of UK troops. So what revenge?

This is the exact kind of attack that would horrify UK the most. The fact that Islamic savagery is being outsourced to the Africans means that UK would need to be careful about a much bigger demography than just a few Pakis. The savagery in the open streets by a few is exactly what traumatizes the most, because it seems the state is losing all control. Concerted terrorist attack by many is something people can recognize as a terrorist attack. But such savagery, can be mind-numbing and people have difficulty getting their heads around it.

RajeshA ji: this kind of horror is of the all f@rt and no cr@p kind. There will be a serious backlash for very little gain. If the Islamists wanted to bump off a soldier, they could have done it in a back alley. These guys wanted to make a statement.

British Petroleum is in Nigeria & so is Shell. Busy bribing dictators & strip-mining the land while the poor natives starve. Plus the man could be having a pan-African, anti-imperial angst. Sure enough - Islam pours oil into the fire.

Perhaps imperialism provides the necessary condition & Islam provides the sufficient condition

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 23 May 2013 22:50

I made this comment during Boston attack.

Soon we will see Muslims belonging to non-core Islamic countries attacking various western societies. This will confuse the heck out of western societies, systems and interest groups, because the attacks will be conducted by 'muslims' belonging to a friendly nation. That will make non-islamic nations fall in well laid traps.

Imagine China being attacked by a NK muslim (I know it is a far fetched case), India by a Nepali or Thai muslim, Russia by an indian muslim, America by a german muslim and so on....

Prem Kumar · Post by **Prem Kumar** » 23 May 2013 22:54

Singha wrote:>> I dont think this was a planned attack with the blessing of some central or delegated Islamic authority.

I thought that _is_ the preferred attack route now...a distributed swarm of ants than a army of easily spotted elephants. nobody can really predict the who & where of which bee out of 10,000 will sting.

Quite possible. Like the "thousand grains of sand" Chinese spy network. Any Chinese origin person is potentially a spy.

I had posted elsewhere - increasingly it looks like "Islam itself is the sleeper cell"

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 23 May 2013 22:59

Prem Kumar wrote: I had posted elsewhere - increasingly it looks like "Islam itself is the sleeper cell"

Shhhh.. Dont say it loud. It will be a religious comment.

Garooda · Post by **Garooda** » 24 May 2013 00:05

Victim_Identified

There's a video clip of one of the attacker attending a Islamist protest from 2007 on the webpage.

The soldier killed in an attack in London has been named as Drummer Lee Rigby of the 2nd Battalion the Royal Regiment of Fusiliers.
Drummer Rigby, 25, from Manchester, leaves behind a two-year-old son.

The BBC has uncovered its own footage of one of the alleged Woolwich attackers, taking part in an Islamist demonstration in April 2007 against the arrest of a man from Luton.
Mr Adebolajo can be seen standing in a crowd of men outside Paddington Green police station, holding a placard reading "Crusade Against Muslims".
He is standing next to Anjem Choudary --He was initially on the news and now a flashback from 2007? who was the leader of al-Muhajiroun, a now-banned organisation.
Mr Choudary -- without a doubt a porki said Mr Adebojalo was previously associated with the group, but went his own way in around 2010.

rajsunder · Post by **rajsunder** » 24 May 2013 01:18

Lalmohan wrote:......................

listening to the man who spoke to the camera - he sounds like a london raised black guy - so wondering where his islamist credentials are. the manner of the attack and the subsequent behaviour suggests more mentally disturbed behaviour than anything else
...................

.

he is a muslim convert of nigerian origin, born and brought up in UK
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/ne ... olajo.html

BTW he was called mujahid in his friends circle.

Agnimitra · Post by **Agnimitra** » 24 May 2013 03:44

Biracial Belgian becomes depressed after hopes were crushed and finds acceptance in the Islamic community:

The Belgian Teen Who Went to Fight in Syria: The Brian De Mulder Story

Like many boys in Antwerp, Brian De Mulder dreamed of being a professional footballer. His favorite team was continental powerhouse FC Barcelona and he sought to emulate its Argentine superstar Leo Messi, proudly wearing “10″ on the back of his jersey. He had started playing the game at the age of six and grew into a talented attacker. He planned to make a life of it.

Two years ago, Brian, then 17, was among several youth cut from his local cash-strapped club. He was devastated to be sidelined and distraught at what seemed like the end of a dream, his family told TIME. They couldn’t have predicted what happened next.

Brian was raised Catholic and rarely got into trouble. He was tall and slim, with dark shaggy hair. He was proud of his mixed heritage—his mother is Brazilian—and often wore a white cross around his neck, a childhood gift from her. Shortly after being booted from the roster, a group of Moroccan teenagers invited him to play indoors. He jumped at the chance to the fill the void.

At some point over the next two months, he started hanging around their mosque. They named him Ibrahim, says his older sister, Bruna Rodriguez. Later, he converted to Islam and changed his name to Abu Qasem Brazili. His parents were stunned by the sudden transformation, but the liberal De Mulders tolerated it. “She thought it was a phase of a teenager—of puberty,” Rodriguez, 25, said of their mother, who declined requests to speak with TIME. “‘In six months it will be over,’ she hoped. But it became worse with his age.”
...

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 24 May 2013 04:23

Praveen Swami in firstpost on the london misunderstanding

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 24 May 2013 12:33

swami's article is very good, but his simple solution (respect for the law) immediately raises the question (which law?)

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 24 May 2013 13:07

footage of police shooting the two attackers - quite dramatic
cops shoot attackers

vina · Post by **vina** » 24 May 2013 13:24

An unfortunate incident. However, we would urge everyone to remain calm and keep the peace. Islam is a religion of peace and the acts of a depraved few don't reflect the attitudes of the vast silent majority.

Meanwhile, we would urge the West, specifically Britain, France and Sweden to reflect on on their racist and violent history of suppressing , discriminating and marginalizing their own citizens who profess Islam and the attendant isolation, poverty, alienation and ghettiozation of their Muslim citizens,who innocently came to these countries in good faith. In addition, the atrocities committed by the law enforcement agencies drives many Muslims towards extremism. Seeing that the representation of Muslims in law enforcement, government, higher education and white collared jobs is minuscule, we would recommend that Britain, France and Sweden set aside 20% quota for their Muslim citizens in police , law enforcement, government and professions , and also legislate that at least 5% of all accommodation city areas of London, Paris and Stockholm be given to Muslims in the interest of integrating them into the larger society and lessen alienation.

And to ensure equality, each Muslim citizen must be given an allowance of the equivalent of $5000 to enable them to perform their religious obligation of Hajj/Umra etc.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 24 May 2013 15:11

do the regular british police carry any sidearm?
15 mins to send a trio of armed cops to the scene in metro london seems a bit long...

---
Scotland Yard assigned an armed response unit four minutes later. And it arrived 10 minutes after that.
---

regular khan cops and our indian cops have revolvers or pistols and some of them even have AR15/shotguns in the trunk "just in case"..similar situation the place would be crawling hip deep with khan armed cops long before 15 mins...nobody would have to risk their neck chatting to the munnas and trying to keep them pacified.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 24 May 2013 15:27

ordinary british police do not carry any firearms

woolwich is not considered a high threat area, yesterday on tv a former police commander was saying that firearms teams are sent to patrol in locations which intel perceives to be high threat (financial district, main stations, airports, etc.) - so no firearms teams would normall have a reason to be in woolwich - there are local gangs who are violent, but armed police not normally required

the attack took place out of sight of the army barracks, but i expect army does not have the remit to respond in civillian areas - although i am guessing there would have been some sort of response - even just men running out to help

first police appear to have arrived in 9-10 mins and as per their instructions set up a cordon out of gunshot range, and called for fire team. the fire team arrived 10 mins later. that is a reasonably quick response in a big city on a weekday afternoon

the munnas apparently told passers by that they would kill any police, which is what they tried to do when the firearms team finally did arrive

profiles of the munnas are emerging - seemingly normal middle class christian background - falling into crime and gang influence - suddenly they discover islam at college and become fervent in their desire for jeehard. so ofcourse the only muslim lands the munnas have been to is londonistan.

i am sure that they were groomed for performing this mission, although the mission itself was probably left up to them to plan and execute.

rsingh · Post by **rsingh** » 24 May 2013 17:01

I have impression that police knew something. On 22nd of I went to UK by car. At Calais terminal there was unprecedented checking and 20 min interviews by British Border agents. On normal days you just flash your ID card and complain about weather.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 24 May 2013 18:20

Britain, US and other western countries cannot be secular democratic nations unless they elect Muslim minorities as their presidents, PMs and MPs. They should also allow Muslims in the west adopt Sharia as their law.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 24 May 2013 18:28

lot of nervousness in englistan today

1. aircraft accident at heathrow this morning, but initial fears were for a terror attack

2. latest is that raf typhoons were scrambled just now with a pakistani origin plane diverted from manchester to stanstead airport being intercepted and escorted down after some sort of incident on board