Indian Railways Thread

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 01 May 2013 23:30

Bade wrote:The inspiration for it was not that I had seen it elsewhere. If you are going to run HSR with limited stops on dedicated tracks and with dedicated stations, it is quite possible to include a level of security in line with air travel.

In the current setup for railways, it is nearly impossible to provide for this level of security and have to depend on providence for things to not go wrong, considering the security challenges.

I dont think that is needed on a mass transport. Unobtrusive security is the way to go. Ans HSR may not be able to compete with Airlines.MAS-DEL takes three and half hr incl airport transit. About 2000 kms. Beat that.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 01 May 2013 23:40

Planes carry 200-300 passengers on long haul flights every hour or so,may be not now in India but will in future. HSR ones around 800 - 1000 passengers per train, say every half hour or so. It is a scalable problem, if we can do it for airlines we should be able to do the same for HSR at least.

Luggage screening and frisking can be automated quite a bit.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 02 May 2013 08:10

the real revolution will be average journey speed of express trains in india can be increased across the board to 100kmph.
this to account for stop times will mean running speeds in range of 120-150kmph and lighter wagon designs for quicker acceleration into top speed.

imagine kolkata to guwahati is today 24 hrs for a distance of 900km. it will be cut down to 9 hrs.
bangalore to guwahati which is presently 55 hrs will reduce to 28hrs...a easy 1N/1D journey.

likewise if the avg speed of goods trains is upped from current 30-40kmph to 80kmph economic impact will be big.

we need to spend big on such things.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 02 May 2013 22:28

Bade wrote:Planes carry 200-300 passengers on long haul flights every hour or so,may be not now in India but will in future. HSR ones around 800 - 1000 passengers per train, say every half hour or so. It is a scalable problem, if we can do it for airlines we should be able to do the same for HSR at least.

Luggage screening and frisking can be automated quite a bit.

How many people in Chennai have need to be in Delhi in 4 hrs flat and back the same evening and at what cost? When that happens, solutions will emerge for HSR or more airlines/flight schedules.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 02 May 2013 22:33

Singha wrote:the real revolution will be average journey speed of express trains in india can be increased across the board to 100kmph.
this to account for stop times will mean running speeds in range of 120-150kmph and lighter wagon designs for quicker acceleration into top speed.

imagine kolkata to guwahati is today 24 hrs for a distance of 900km. it will be cut down to 9 hrs.
bangalore to guwahati which is presently 55 hrs will reduce to 28hrs...a easy 1N/1D journey.

likewise if the avg speed of goods trains is upped from current 30-40kmph to 80kmph economic impact will be big.

we need to spend big on such things.

That is very sensible idea and eminently doable. IR needs to spend big on this idea.

If we are able to do 24-29 hrs journey in 8-9 hrs it would come as a big boost to passenger service. Goods train in say double that time will improve GDP a lot.

Supratik · Post by **Supratik** » 02 May 2013 23:59

chaanakya wrote:
That is very sensible idea and eminently doable. IR needs to spend big on this idea.

If we are able to do 24-29 hrs journey in 8-9 hrs it would come as a big boost to passenger service. Goods train in say double that time will improve GDP a lot.

To speed up trains you need to completely overhaul track and signaling. This will require billions. Perhaps they will do it once DFC is running.

Prasad · Post by **Prasad** » 03 May 2013 04:04

chaanakya wrote:
Bade wrote:Planes carry 200-300 passengers on long haul flights every hour or so,may be not now in India but will in future. HSR ones around 800 - 1000 passengers per train, say every half hour or so. It is a scalable problem, if we can do it for airlines we should be able to do the same for HSR at least.

Luggage screening and frisking can be automated quite a bit.

How many people in Chennai have need to be in Delhi in 4 hrs flat and back the same evening and at what cost? When that happens, solutions will emerge for HSR or more airlines/flight schedules.

I doubt cross-country travel has the numbers that we need. But short-medium distance trains, especially in the south are invariably booked as soon as reservation is open. That is the market that trains have to cater to. At current speeds, a distance of 450/500km - chennai - coimbatore/madurai is an overnight/8 hr journey. That is too slow. And between madras and madurai for instance there are atleast 3-4 trains that run full through the year and many more will be filled if present. Buses make a killing on these routes if it was ever doubtfull as to whether there is more demand. Same can be said of madras-b;lore or any other similar routes all over the country. If that distance can be covered in 5 hours, a person might take a 5 am train to get to the destination at 10.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 03 May 2013 04:46

Even in a.p, vast numbers are on the move daily in the tripod of nellore, vizag, hyd with vijaywada in middle. In karnataka the blr to hubli route is very busy, as is the mysore to chennai

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 03 May 2013 21:30

nukavarapu wrote:
The biggest joke is everybody is talking about HSR and other stuff, but nobody is talking about power. Cheap and reliable power is the seed for technological evolution and financial uplifting of any society. Without cheap and reliable power everything will be wastage. So I guess the UPA wants to do the final finishing act is take this country down to bankruptcy.

There are threads dedicated to that discussion.
One is here

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 04 May 2013 00:16

A vision and policy document to re-make Indian Railways

Vision:
To facilitate Indian Railways to provide first-world facilities, safety and service to Indians at affordable costs.

IR will spend the funds developed using these initiatives to focus on improving existing tracks and developing new routes to support 150MPH for passenger services and 80MPH for freight services.

Policy on usage:
1. Private operators are allowed to plan and operate entire routes or specific trains on existing routes for both passenger and freight services. Indian Railways auction the routes or time slots for on a 5-year basis. The operators will be required to satisfy the safety and security criteria set forth by Indian Railways.

2. The area above train tracks will be offered to Power utility companies to setup and operate Solar Power utilities on BOT (Build, Operate, Transfer) model. The tenure is for 20 years. The auctioning will be done per KM basis. The operators will have to sell the power output to Indian Railways at agreed upon prices for the duration of the contract (20 years) and can sell the excess capacity to outside customers/grids/utility companies.

3. The railway station properties in selected cities (Top 100 Cities) will be converted into a multi-purpose commercial centers on LBOT (Lease the land, Build, Operate and Transfer) model. The lease duration will be for 99 years. It is estimated that Indian Railways own anywhere between 50k-1000k Sq.M area which can be converted into high-rise commercial centers.

Potential:
1. IR's project revenues for 2013-14 is estimated to be Rs 120,000 crore. IR can earn 10-15% additional revenue by renting unused slots/routes resulting an additional annual income of Rs 12,000-18,000 crore

2. IR's is estimated to have a potential for 90GW solar power (60000km X 10m wide x 150W/sq.M). IR can earn anywhere between Rs 900-1800 Crore by charging a rent of Rs 1-2L per year for every MW capacity.

3. By leasing its primary real estate IR can earn anywhere between Rs 1500-2000 crore per year at Rs50/sqM lease value (estimated at Rs10,000/SqM for 99 year lease with 8% rate)

Thus IR can earn anywhere between Rs 15,000-20,000 crore additional revenue annually from this new policy.

Social Benefits
1. Private operators bring new and improved technology that can offer more convenience and safe travel experience to Indians
2. Railway stations can become the new economic hubs that offer centralized commercial, recreational, educational and most importantly government services to Indian Citizens. (Read details here).
3. Contributes a lot to India's renewable energy resources and power needs.
4. Can create at least 250,000-500,000 permanent job opportunities. Equivalent to Rs 20-30,000 crore Investment.

Nikhil T · Post by **Nikhil T** » 08 May 2013 04:21

My BEST train journey ever!

Great to see IR doing some things right.

It was quiet warm Friday evening when I landed in Delhi with my family for a much-needed break to Shimla and Manali.

We were all quite excited and looking forward towards this vacation which we planned almost at the eleventh hour. While the rest of the bookings were done, I was quite sceptical to take the kids all the way from Delhi to Simla crammed in the car.

As it is, the journey from Shimla to Manali and from Manali back to Chandigarh in car would be taxing for the kids (It takes 8 hours each for both the rides)

So, we decided to book the car from Chandigarh and took a return flight from Chandigarh to Mumbai. The only better option left was a train from Delhi to Chandigarh. I was lucky to get four seats in AC Chair Class in the Delhi-Kalka Shatabdi Express.

The train is scheduled to depart from New Delhi at 7.40 am and reach Kalka in four hours later covering the distance of over 300 km.

This is what happened in those four-odd hours.

7.20 am

We reach the station where the train is docked on platform number two.

To my surprise I see a swanky new train with broad window coaches waiting there.

The Ticket Checker is speaking to some people about the waiting list positions. I suddenly see a person using the cleaner to clean all the windows. Wow! That's cool I say to myself. I am about to buy a bottle of water when the guy running a small canteen on the platform tells me that it will be given one in the train once it starts.

7.40 am

The train leaves on time. Not a minute late. An attendant named Rajendra introduces himself to us. He informs us he will be our caretaker for the rest of the journey. He gets us some newspapers and I pick up an English daily.

8.10 am

Rajendra returns again with a bottle of water and a flask which contains hot water. He serves both along with the tray which contains biscuits, dairy whiteners and tea/coffee sachets.

8.30 am

I look out the window and notice that the train is moving at super fast speeds now. Rajendra comes and hands over the menu card which mentions all the hot snacks which will be served on board today.

Since it is a morning train, he asks us to pick from the breakfast menu that contains everything from south Indian and north Indian vegetarian dishes to an eggs based non-vegetarian menu. I jokingly asked him if all the items were available and he politely replied "YES SIR!"

9:00 am

The train has just left Panipat. Rajendra returns again, this time with another tray and full breakfast served. It is hot and tastes great. As we start, he takes a round and asks people if they want something extra. I am impressed with the service!

9:45 am

By the time the train leaves Kurukshetra, we are done with our breakfast. Rajendra clears the plates and another person walks in and cleans small pieces of plastic, food etc lying on the floor.

10:00 am

I look around to see if I could charge my laptop to complete some last-minute work when I discover that each row is equipped with a charging point and reading lamps. This is turning out to be the best railway journey of my life.

10:45 am

Rajendra returns to take another round, this time he is asking people for tea or coffee.I give the beverages a pass but happily tip him for the services he's offered.

Rajendra looks pleased. He tells me I am the first person to tip him in the bogey.

I tell him that he deserved it for the warm service he offered.

It was indeed a 5 star treatment -- a luxury on wheels and as a custom, a good service should be tipped well!

Peregrine · Post by **Peregrine** » 31 May 2013 01:01

Japan bullet train deal to crown India sales package

India may use Japanese bullet train technology for a high-speed connection between Mumbai and Ahmedabad, a report said Wednesday, the centrepiece of a huge package of infrastructure sales.

Prime Minister Shinzo Abe and his Indian counterpart Manmohan Singh will issue a joint statement at a summit later in the day giving details on a feasibility study for the railway, the Nikkei newspaper said.

Abe is to offer a sweetener in the form of 101.7 billion yen ($1.0 billion) in yen-based loans to India, the Nikkei said, as Tokyo fights off competition from nations such as France, which has the TGV high-speed rail network.

Japan under Abe is embarking on a renewed drive to sell roads, rail and power stations to emerging nations, including India, in a bid to offset lassitude in the domestic economy that has left it treading water.

Earlier this month Abe pledged he would travel the world on behalf of Japan Inc and said he wanted to treble sales of Japan's well-respected infrastructure projects to 30 trillion yen a year.

The Mumbai-Ahmedabad rail line would stretch 500 kilometres (312 miles) at a cost of up to one trillion yen, the Nikkei said, adding the two governments plan to finish technological reviews and costings by March 2014.

Abe was also expected to offer around 17.7 billion yen to India to build a conference hall and other facilities at the Indian Institute of Technology in Hyderabad, along with around 13 billion yen for the Tamil Nadu state government, the Nikkei said.

The pledges will come on top of a March offer of a 71 billion yen loan towards the construction of an underground rail network in Mumbai.

Japanese media have said the two sides will agree on drafting a master plan for new infrastructure in southern India, which could see Japanese know-how used to build a power grid, roads, railways and ports around Bangalore and Chennai.

The sales boom comes as the two countries -- both democracies -- eye the rise of China with increasing unease as Beijing presses territorial claims with growing insistence.

Singh on Tuesday called for the shoring up of military and security ties, Kyodo News said, stressing the commonalities between Tokyo and Delhi.

"We should intensify our political dialogue and expand our strategic consultations on... issues of mutual interest," Singh said in a speech, adding that defence and security dialogue, military exercises and defence technology collaboration should also grow between the two countries, according to Kyodo.

Singh stressed that Japan is the only country with which India has held a "two-plus-two" meeting of foreign and defence ministers, Kyodo said.

Media reports earlier this week said Japan was expected to sell amphibious planes to India in what would be the first sale of hardware used by the Japanese military since a weapons export ban was imposed in the 1960s

Cheers

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 31 May 2013 08:47

that would still not be chippandish a bit, in the sense nothing to match up with their maglev ones.

habal · Post by **habal** » 31 May 2013 12:42

bullet trains, if urgently needed anywhere in India, are definitely in South India. Places like Bangalore, Cochin, Trivandrum, Dindigul, Hyderabad would be well served by Bullet trains connectivity. Mumbai-Ahmedabad is already a comfortable route I presume.

Arunkumar · Post by **Arunkumar** » 31 May 2013 14:04

Bullet trian between mumbai and ahmedabad is good news. The fastest train right now is mumbai ahmedabad shatabdi which takes 6.5 hrs for a 500 km journey with avg speed of 80 kmph. A bullet train with a avg speed of 200 kmph might half it to 3hrs or less. Mutually beneficial to people of south gujurat coming to mumbai to work and also daily travellers from mumbai to surat/vapi/daman.

Maybe Phase -2 would be extending to Delhi from Ahmedabad.
Would be interesting to see price competitives with airlines.

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 31 May 2013 15:28

As per some reports it will take 10 years to finish it, so if we start by 2015 , then it will be 2020 or even 2025 before we see first bullet train run

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 01 Jun 2013 11:48

>> The fastest train right now is mumbai ahmedabad shatabdi which takes 6.5 hrs for a 500 km journey with avg speed of 80 kmph.

how many stops are there? shatabdi rakes can be pulled by WAP7 locos at 150kmph. I think rather than a hyper expensive new bullet train, we could improve the track with fencing, underpasses and better signaling to permit higher avg speeds throughout for shatabdi / rajdhani type trains.

fencing all over the country is a must going forward , there is no way any train can improve average speeds without proper fencing.

negi · Post by **negi** » 01 Jun 2013 12:26

Actually GD difference is the competent Japanese might actually end up building something here something on the lines of Metro project whihc got built in commie land WB. IR has been living on tracks and bridges laid by the British how many kms of tracks and bridges have we laid since we got independent ? When Paswan was IR minister he took a train to Hajipur his consituency, Lalloo and Mamta have indulged in similar antics.

Arunkumar · Post by **Arunkumar** » 01 Jun 2013 18:09

Singha, there are 7 stops.
Maybe there is entire set of do's and donts which need to be followed for high speed trains which Japan has learnt thru decades of experience i.e. signaling, track ballasts, fasteners, fencing , overhead power etc. Trying to learn on our own will take the same time + accidents. Hence the know how transfer.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 02 Jun 2013 13:03

I am sure japan which is already deep into the mumbai delhi and blr chennai industrial corridors could provide all such expertise in civil engg and control systems and lightweight rake design on a standalone basis without also a proper n700 shinkansen shock and awe order. Even to increase avg speed to 110kmph which iirc all of ir tracks and wagons can take with few exceptions its a herculean task with 1000s of things to be done.

There is plenty of meat on the bone without going the whole hog upto a 350kmph rated system. I am guessing a 150kmph system will be far less costly and tolerant of our cough cough standards in construction than a 350kmph deal where its got to super pure std or you get into big issues.

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 02 Jun 2013 20:56

The Japanese rail system is at best one we can aspire to. It's in a level all of its own. The timeliness is extraordinary. Not just the Shinkansen, but the Tokyo subway and commuter trains all departed and arrived at the very minute they were scheduled for, in my experience. I don't know which is more impressive - running through the commuter rail system during rush hour and arriving right on time every time, or running 560kms to Osaka and arriving 2h40mins later at the very minute scheduled, after making each intermediate stop (e.g. Nagoya, Kyoto) on time as well. More than just the technology, it requires a regimented trained staff running the system to make it work, and their culture is pretty suited to that.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 03 Jun 2013 06:52

well the french who are a entirely different type of culture are able to run the TGV in a shock n awe manner as well. and those lines have extended into italy and spain now I think. the channel tunnel trains also look good. germany has their high speed ICE trains.

almost every country of note has special trains that maintain avg of 150kmph atleast. accounting for stops this means they speed at upto 200 kmph on many stretches.

if the funds and training are there, even the chinese are now successfully running a huge network incl probably the longest service beijing-to-shanghai which sees around 10 departures / day from either end I was told.

I think Step1 should be arranging for immediate fencing and underpass construction on all trunk routes on a countrywide basis, followed by inspection of all bridges and culverts to make sure they can take the load of 25-rake trains passing at upto 200kmph for a safety overmargin to desireable 150kmph.
these steps in itself need tens of billions of $$.

then we can talk about new trains, signaling, training costs etc.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 03 Jun 2013 07:54

countrywide basis is something required in infrastructure. but I would not be alive when I get to see at least one of the sector doing a countrywide plan., if at all that will happen.

Prasad · Post by **Prasad** » 03 Jun 2013 08:30

Singha wrote:well the french who are a entirely different type of culture are able to run the TGV in a shock n awe manner as well. and those lines have extended into italy and spain now I think. the channel tunnel trains also look good. germany has their high speed ICE trains.

almost every country of note has special trains that maintain avg of 150kmph atleast. accounting for stops this means they speed at upto 200 kmph on many stretches.

if the funds and training are there, even the chinese are now successfully running a huge network incl probably the longest service beijing-to-shanghai which sees around 10 departures / day from either end I was told.

That is a very good point. With our travel volumes, we can have something of the sort that Europe has. High speed trains like ICE and TGV and slower speed trains all available for a person to choose. Rates, of course, vary with service chosen.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 03 Jun 2013 09:57

The engineering is very much feasible but it a bit more complicated than that. It is almost impossible to get to 200kmph safely on a mixed use system where freight runs on passenger lines.

That said the rail weight must be raised from UIC52 (52 kg/m) as is standard on the trunklines now to at least UIC60 (60 kg/m). The subgrade engineering has to vastly improve. Right now the soil beneath our rails lines is not properly engineered, causing the lines to settle unevenly. This is what causes the poor ride quality. A proper 95% proctor compacted soil should settle a max of 1/2" evenly over a year. The bridges will take longer to replace but the culverts for sure can be replaced relatively easily. the depth of balact will have to be doubled from the present 15cm to atleast 30 cm. The layout of all our stations will have to be changed to allow the high speed to pass through away from the platform.

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 03 Jun 2013 10:30

How about turn radii ? Do IR/RDSO standards for tracks already take into account future speed increases and thereby require turn radii to accommodate 160-200km/h on current right of way with adequate rail and signaling technology ?

Arunkumar · Post by **Arunkumar** » 03 Jun 2013 10:41

http://www.irfca.org/faq/faq-pway.html

Nice website describing various classifications of routes depending on speed for IR.
Probably they chose mum-ahmedabad because apart from good traffic it is also a very linear line thus requiring very little turn radius.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 03 Jun 2013 12:04

Theo_Fidel wrote:The engineering is very much feasible but it a bit more complicated than that. It is almost impossible to get to 200kmph safely on a mixed use system where freight runs on passenger lines.

That said the rail weight must be raised from UIC52 (52 kg/m) as is standard on the trunklines now to at least UIC60 (60 kg/m). The subgrade engineering has to vastly improve. Right now the soil beneath our rails lines is not properly engineered, causing the lines to settle unevenly. This is what causes the poor ride quality. A proper 95% proctor compacted soil should settle a max of 1/2" evenly over a year. The bridges will take longer to replace but the culverts for sure can be replaced relatively easily. the depth of balact will have to be doubled from the present 15cm to atleast 30 cm. The layout of all our stations will have to be changed to allow the high speed to pass through away from the platform.

and this is what will need tens of billions of dollars countrywide before we can move to improving the overall look n feel of the system.
in the meantime i guess its fine to implement some such changes on a few prestigious routes like delhi-amritsar, delhi-jaipur, kolkata-patna/ranchi , blr-chenni,hyd-vijayawada and work out exactly how much it will cost for countrywide application.......it should not be seen as a end goal but part of the process.

gigantic amts of civil engg will be needed if bridges are to be built across large waterbodies and ballast beds improved as Theo says above. work will need to start in 1000s of places countrywide to make any dent on the problem in a decade of timespan.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 03 Jun 2013 12:28

Even if IR manage to improve existing systems in this decade and make it better and effecient it would be a significant achievement , HSR wont work in this country unless we significant improve our safety and work culture. Plus the million dollar question on how to generate profit and maintain these.

If what we can best achieve now is 140 Km/hr average speed then its better we improve the avg speed of all trains to 100 + Km/hr to start with , improve safety ,signalling and better facility at stations for passengers ...things thats are doable within Indian Railways work culture and funding.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 03 Jun 2013 12:49

what is the weight of the LHB coaches and do they come only in 2AC ,3 AC and AC chair car? the old 72-pax 2tier3sleeper weighs in at a hefty 33tons empty I believe? and some trains haul 25 of these, plus a pantry car and a guard-cum-luggage wagon.

Zynda · Post by **Zynda** » 03 Jun 2013 13:58

If I remember correctly, the ICF manufactured sleeper coaches weight around 44 tons. LHB coaches are around 10% lighter compared to ICF coaches. Per IRFCA site, LHB coach weights around 40.5 tons.

There have been a few trains running with LHB designed non-AC coaches. These coaches are restricted to a max speed of 120 Kmph. AC coaches are cleared for 160 Kmph.

Singha, I think currently IR restricts max number of coaches to 24.

Along with tracks, signaling and fencing, higher power traction is required for achieving 160Kph speeds per RDSO documents. Hence, RDSO is looking to acquire 6000HP diesel locomotives & > 9000HP electric locomotives.

I was also reading up on IRFCA forums that at 160Kph speeds, due to uneven laying of tracks, the locomotive tends up to bounce up and the pantograph will induce excessive vibrations on to the Over head Electric wires. High speed pantographs which carry its own "suspension" are needed to mitigate this effect.

I think none of the above are unachievable, political will is required to invest billions of dollar for which the benefits are not immediately (unlike laying a new line or introducing a new train on already stressed system whcih will translate to pleasing the vote bank)

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 03 Jun 2013 21:49

Turn radius's can be dealt with using cant and coach-tilt technology. Atleast upto 200-250 kmph type speed. there may be a few odd tight turns that may have to be straightened. Present standard of 1.6 km radius is not that far from the 2.5 km that TGV has in places and we are not planning on going that fast. Also there are some real advantages to 5'6" broad gauge. The camber can be higher and tilt can also be larger without affecting passengers. of course at the china standard of 350 kmph turn radius will have to 5+km!

A bigger problem will be switches. Anything above 100 kmph requires special switches. The Japanese can definitely help here as they have the best technology in the world that integrates a true high speed rail shinkansen with a lower speed local traffic.

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 03 Jun 2013 23:45

arvin wrote:http://www.irfca.org/faq/faq-pway.html

Nice website describing various classifications of routes depending on speed for IR.
Probably they chose mum-ahmedabad because apart from good traffic it is also a very linear line thus requiring very little turn radius.

Thanks!

dinakar · Post by **dinakar** » 05 Jun 2013 07:18

Motorman who halted train before collapsing nominated for award

The 48-year-old motorman, in a heroic act, had stopped the train GM 42032 within a few minutes of leaving Gummidipoondi, disengaged cabin controls and switched on the emergency flasher light before falling unconscious. Though the motorman was taken to the Perambur Railway Hospital later in the evening he did not survive the attack.

RIP that brave soul.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 05 Jun 2013 10:33

RIP ! He saved precious life with his heroic action.

Hopefully his family is well compensated and taken care off by state.

Klaus · Post by **Klaus** » 05 Jun 2013 11:04

Zynda wrote: Along with tracks, signaling and fencing, higher power traction is required for achieving 160Kph speeds per RDSO documents. Hence, RDSO is looking to acquire 6000HP diesel locomotives & > 9000HP electric locomotives.

I was also reading up on IRFCA forums that at 160Kph speeds, due to uneven laying of tracks, the locomotive tends up to bounce up and the pantograph will induce excessive vibrations on to the Over head Electric wires. High speed pantographs which carry its own "suspension" are needed to mitigate this effect.

Gas turbine locos of 12,000 HP rating can solve these problems. Its better to introduce these monsters into the Indian scene, Union Pacific style rather than incremental increases of 1000 HP and a new class of loco. It adds to the confusion in nomenclature and specifications and is eerily similar to the scene in the DRDO's IGDMP.

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 05 Jun 2013 11:54

IR is planning to run 9000hp and 12000hp electric locomotives on the dedicated freight corridors:
India to import electric locomotives from Japan

According to Railway Board officials, Delhi has decided to import new class electric locos from Japan. The railways intend to use 9000 HP engines for the western corridor and 12000 HP electric locos for the eastern corridor.The railways are presently using 5000 HP, 5400 HP and 6000 HP freight and passenger locos and working on indigenously increasing their capacities to 7000 HP.

Indian railways plans to buy 200 electric locomotives for DFC

Indian Railways (IR) is planning to buy 200 high horse power (HP) electric locomotives to use on its proposed $16bn dedicated freight corridor (DFC) project.
Of the 200 locomotives, 40 will be imported from Japan, with the remaining 160 manufactured on home soil, according to the Press Trust of India.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 05 Jun 2013 12:10

website of kawasaki railway division. they make the shinkansen rolling stock among other things.
but I cannot see any electric or diesel locos there suitable for the task at hand
http://www.khi.co.jp/english/product/ra ... index.html

the kind of locos we need seem more khanish - huge, diesel-based or gas turbine , capable of hauling a lot of wagons.
http://www.getransportation.com/rail/ra ... otive.html

can anyone point me to the 9000-12000hp electric and diesel locos suitable for frieght trains - ie high torque

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 05 Jun 2013 12:55

JR EF200 and EF500 classes were both over 8000hp
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JR_Freight_Class_EF200
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JR_Freight_Class_EF500

They are very experienced with heavy electrical machinery, and it's well within their abilities. They specifically want electric traction on the DFCs. The Americans are better with diesel/electrics. The other option would be the Swiss; the WAP-5/WAP-7 are sourced from ABB and Adtranz.

Klaus · Post by **Klaus** » 05 Jun 2013 13:20

Singha wrote:
the kind of locos we need seem more khanish - huge, diesel-based or gas turbine , capable of hauling a lot of wagons.
http://www.getransportation.com/rail/ra ... otive.html

can anyone point me to the 9000-12000hp electric and diesel locos suitable for frieght trains - ie high torque

Bombardier has manufactured ~14400 hp electric locos for metal ore hauling in Scandinavia. China Railways operates a few locos in the 9600-13400 hp range (HXD series). Russia used to operate the VL85 (~13400 hp). Perhaps some vintage locos in Eastern Europe too.