Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 07 Jun 2013 21:46

There are small cameras at every price point that will be better than any smart phone, if you don't want to carry one, OK, but please don't go about saying that a smart phone is better than most P&S.

All smartphones now also have integrated cloud storage so no need to download pics/sync stuff/plug in cables/attach docks. I dont even need to think consciously offloading my camera pics to a PC or uploading them into cloud storage. Its done and synced as and when I take the pics and when I get to my PC later in the day, its already there in my folders.

Stand alone cameras are moving toward that as well, but they are 2-3 years behind mobile phones since the files sizes are larger, especially if you shoot RAW. The only catch here is that you will keep your camera for 5+ years and probably not have a smart phone in active use after 3 years.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 07 Jun 2013 22:00

Integrated cloud storage is out of teach for billions of people worldwide because they lack the wifi at home and/or the data plan for the phone to upload the pics. Cables are still pretty much the only way.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 07 Jun 2013 22:34

Singha wrote:Integrated cloud storage is out of teach for billions of people worldwide because they lack the wifi at home and/or the data plan for the phone to upload the pics. Cables are still pretty much the only way.

It is out of reach of billions yet within reach of billions too. It is in the interest of companies like Chacha to remedy that problem and why they have projects in Google [x] to deal with it apart from their public Fiber initiative. That is why one of the YumBeeAye buzzwords now is "The Next Billion". That being said, no technology becomes pervasive in a big bang - it always infiltrates the ranks of the (relatively) affluent and then spreads to the rest. Same happened with PCs, same happened with mobile devices, same happened with regular TV and cable TV, same happening with smartphones. It is inevitably linked with commoditization. Commoditization drives down prices and increases market penetration by catering to as wide a range of price points as possible.

Mort Walker wrote:There are small cameras at every price point that will be better than any smart phone, if you don't want to carry one, OK, but please don't go about saying that a smart phone is better than most P&S.

It already is equivalent and from a user perspective a lot of times better.

You can keep your head in a hole with eyes closed tightly and choose to believe what you want - reality doesn't care.

Mort Walker wrote: Stand alone cameras are moving toward that as well, but they are 2-3 years behind mobile phones since the files sizes are larger, especially if you shoot RAW. The only catch here is that you will keep your camera for 5+ years and probably not have a smart phone in active use after 3 years.

That's where you are mistaken. A user doesn't keep a P&S camera for any longer than they keep any similarly priced consumer electronics devices including a smartphone - a camera is not a car and there is no financial or emotional connection between a user and a cheap piece of kit like a P&S camera. In fact in most cases, users don't buy another P&S camera and simply move exclusively to a smartphone for P&S use, and they continue to upgrade their smartphone every 2-3 years. Again we are not talking DSLRs here, but P&S in the price point of $0-$400. Consumer trends on this are clear and have consistently held true since 2007-8 - P&S is going the way of the PND whether you like it or not. You can cling to your P&S, nothing wrong with it. I still like my Commodore 64.

And why would I as a consumer buy a P&S with cloud upload capability when my smartphone can do what that P&S does and much more. A smartphone can do the P&S's job pretty well but a P&S cannot do a smartphone's job at all (whether poorly or well!). If I am photo hobbyist I will invest in a DSLR but not a P&S in today's market.

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 07 Jun 2013 22:35

Singhaji,

Yes, that is true. For those of us in Khanland, they use phone carriers, GOOG, MSFT, AAPL, YAHOO, etc. to simply provide them the data to allow unkil to spy on the rest of us. I bet the BRF servers are probably being trolled by spooks computers reading all the dhaagas. Wonder what will happen with their programs go through the benis and L&M dhaagas?

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 07 Jun 2013 22:39

All accused collaborator companies - Mickey, Chacha, FB, FruitCo etc. have come out vehemently denying that they even know of the existence of the PRISM programme. All got their chaddis in a twist while NSA trawls thru BENIS

Prasad · Post by **Prasad** » 07 Jun 2013 22:39

While the $200-500 cameras are still leagues better than smartphone cameras all round today, this market is markedly coming down, despite protestations and ad campaigns from camera manufacturers. Looking at Canon's revenue data for the last year, their dslr units actually jumped due to the large number of entry-level dslr's being sold. Top end dslr's are always low volume items and don't really add to the bottom line directly except for the shock and awe factor when the public looks at the gorgeous pictures they see from the olympics or africa. That leads to more sales at the entry level which brings in the moolah.

I see the compact market shrinking when smartphones can manage the sensor size and capability of a compact. We're moving towards it very slowly. Things like shutter lag, getting to the camera quickly enough to not frustrate the user, shooting a decently exposed picture in a dimly lit restaurant, maintaining enough battery juice to keep shooting pictures all day and then be able to make a phone call, send an email, check facebook and upload a few pictures on a single charge are issues that smartphones have to tackle. Until then, compact cameras aren't going anywhere.

Another thing that bugs me is, how much do people touch the front element on their compacts? How much abuse does the lens on a smartphone get? How does that affect picture quality? People might be attention deficit enough to not want to carry another device and take it out and shoot with it and then upload pictures from it separately but they'll definitely notice picture quality difference and sensor performance definitely counts for that (not megapickles!).

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 07 Jun 2013 22:44

Prasad mian, that technology is already there, its question of it becoming commoditized and spread widely amongst all smartphones, not just GB/HTC exclusives. For example, that use case you mention in your post is already possible with a Lumia 928 that is sold today so its not a question of catching up in technology any more, its a question of commoditization.

The problem with camera lenses is less of people touching them and more of them getting scratched due to keys, coins, debris etc. It is a problem but less widespread than expected. Usually the industrial design incorporates recesses and lips which prevent that in 80-90% of the cases.

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 07 Jun 2013 22:48

Raja Bose wrote: That's where you are mistaken. A user doesn't keep a P&S camera for any longer than they keep any similarly priced consumer electronics devices including a smartphone - a camera is not a car and there is no financial or emotional connection between a user and a cheap piece of kit like a P&S camera. In fact in most cases, users don't buy another P&S camera and simply move exclusively to a smartphone for P&S use, and they continue to upgrade their camera every 2-3 years. Again we are not talking DSLRs here, but P&S in the price point of $0-$400. Consumer trends on this are clear and have consistently held true since 2007-8 - P&S is going the way of the PND whether you like it or not. You can cling to your P&S, nothing wrong with it. I still like my Commodore 64.

Arre yaar, aap tho baare paise walla who hangs out with VCs, but the rest of us on earth will not upgrade a $400 P&S like an LX7 or G15 every 2-3 years. Maybe a PoS no name or something that breaks within $100, but I am still using an older LX3 from 2008 along with a G9, and I'm not alone. My eyes are not closed, but squinting through a view finder.

If you spend a little more like $500 you can get a small portable Olympus PEN or 4/3 Panny with interchangeable lenses.
Better yet, with the crowd you hang out with, you should get a Leica M9 like Woz.

Prasad · Post by **Prasad** » 07 Jun 2013 23:02

Mort ji, Leica and all too much!

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 07 Jun 2013 23:08

^^^I'm a Canon shooter. I buy a new SLR every 2-3 years. Did the 20D, 5D, 40D, 7D, 5DMkII, 5DMkIII. Now all goes in trash for a Nokia Lumia 9XX.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 07 Jun 2013 23:19

Is lumia 9xx available with android?

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 07 Jun 2013 23:35

Mort Walker wrote:^^^I'm a Canon shooter. I buy a new SLR every 2-3 years. Did the 20D, 5D, 40D, 7D, 5DMkII, 5DMkIII. Now all goes in trash for a Nokia Lumia 9XX.

Saar we are not TFTA like you buying multiple SLRs and claiming they are "P&S" cameras.

Rest of us phata abduls used to buy those $200-$300 P&S cameras earlier which are now made obsolete by the smartphones carriers peddle to us for $199.- and a contract. Why pay $300.- extra which is hardly chump change for us and also carry two devices which anyway won't fit together in a pocket given the huge screen sizes of phones today. And we can't afford to spend big bucks on your "P&S" SLRs either with interchangeable lens, rigs and a big bag to carry them all.

I can picture Mortullah carrying some humongous contraption with telephoto lens and telling people its his P&S camera - next thing we know he is dragging along an Agni mijjile with him and telling people its his....

*ducks for cover*

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 07 Jun 2013 23:36

SaiK wrote:Is lumia 9xx available with android?

Nope. WP8 onlee. GB doesn't make Android phones.

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 08 Jun 2013 00:02

Raja Bose wrote: Saar we are not TFTA like you buying multiple SLRs and claiming they are "P&S" cameras. Rest of us phata abduls used to buy those $200-$300 P&S cameras earlier which are now made obsolete by the smartphones carriers peddle to us for $199.- and a contract. Why pay $300.- extra which is hardly chump change for us and also carry two devices which anyway won't fit together in a pocket given the huge screen sizes of phones today. And we can't afford to spend big bucks on your "P&S" SLRs either with interchangeable lens, rigs and a big bag to carry them all.

You can use a mirror-less camera with a 14-42mm (3x zoom) lens that will suffice. The Sony RX-100 and Fujufilm X20 are also quite good. These are not big bucks, but up to $500-$650. Yes, that is expensive, but not over 5 years. The $199 + contract is nearly $700 over 2 years, so pay now or pay later. If you don't upgrade your smart phone in 2 years, you continue to pay high rates and get fleeced. I do photography as a hobby, nothing more, and most cameras are not held together with double sided tape and cheap glue. Be happy with some of the pics you get from guys in the camera dhaaga or like Vishal Jolapara who takes fabulous shots of the IAF. You will never get that from a camera phone today or in the future.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 08 Jun 2013 02:34

Mort Walker wrote:Be happy with some of the pics you get from guys in the camera dhaaga or like Vishal Jolapara who takes fabulous shots of the IAF. You will never get that from a camera phone today or in the future.

Maybe you haven't been reading all this while. The smartphone has put the P&S camera in decline not the DSLR cameras. Is that so hard to comprehend and understand?

Do folks in the camera dhaaga or Vishal take their fabulous IAF shots with a P&S camera? No! Do 85-90% of the camera using population fall in that category in which you and Vishal belong? No! For them the P&S segment will go extinct just like the PND category.....its already started. Pay attention in class Mortullah.

hanumadu · Post by **hanumadu** » 08 Jun 2013 04:10

Raja Bose wrote:
hanumadu wrote:The hump looks bigger (in area) than the 808. How does so much stuff leak anyway? Almost all phones are leaked ahead of their release.
Through ODMs or tier-I suppliers. Nowadays folks who leak from chipanda factories are quite clever and mask all identifying marks which can lead to them getting caught.

I thought they are leaked by device manufacturers to create hype and buzz and get people get used to the idea of the device. The bump on the supposed EOS definitely needs getting used to. Some times the leaks are of computer generated renders than the devices. Only the designers would have access to those.

These pictures look like prototyping samples from GB's design labs rather than mass manufacturing from ODMs or contract manufacturers.

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 08 Jun 2013 04:26

In 2012 about 17 million DSLRs and 6 million Mirrorless interchangeable lens cameras were sold. Making it about 23 million high end cameras. P&S are not included in this. Obviously DSLRs are better than cell phone cams. In Q1 alone just fruitco sold ~48 million iphunwas. dSLRs are a minute fraction of those. So we can argue dedicated cameras are dead.

Look at it the other way. As mentioned before in Q1 2013 alone fruitco sold 48 million iphunwas. Android numbers are probably similar with a smattering of windows phone. Highest engagement and top app list on phones are typically games. In its six years of existence PS3 sold about 70 million or about 12 million a year. Xbox probably has similar numbers making 24 million consoles a year. A minute fraction of smartphone gaming.

Gaming consoles are dead.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 08 Jun 2013 04:42

Anujan wrote:In 2012 about 17 million DSLRs and 6 million Mirrorless interchangeable lens cameras were sold. Making it about 23 million high end cameras. P&S are not included in this. Obviously DSLRs are better than cell phone cams. In Q1 alone just fruitco sold ~48 million iphunwas. dSLRs are a minute fraction of those. So we can argue dedicated cameras are dead.

Look at it the other way. As mentioned before in Q1 2013 alone fruitco sold 48 million iphunwas. Android numbers are probably similar with a smattering of windows phone. Highest engagement and top app list on phones are typically games. In its six years of existence PS3 sold about 70 million or about 12 million a year. Xbox probably has similar numbers making 24 million consoles a year. A minute fraction of smartphone gaming.

Gaming consoles are dead.

Here's why the above argument is based on totally fallacious logic.

Q 1. Can a smartphone do what a P&S does with similar or sometimes even better results? Yes.
Q 2. Can a smartphone do what a DSLR does with similar or sometimes better results? No.

Hence, P&S is going extinct due to smartphones but DSLRs are not going to go extinct due to smartphones. This is already borne out by consumer data whether in terms of sales, growth, sources of pic uploads, popularity of mobile apps dealing with photos and usage data of smartphone cameras and how does it compare with P&S usage.

Now lets apply this to other device categories...

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Q 1. Can a smartphone do what a handheld gaming console does with similar or sometimes even better results? Yes.
Q 2. Can a smartphone do what a TV gaming console/PC gaming rig does with similar or sometimes better results? No.

Hence, handheld gaming consoles will go extinct at some point due to smartphones but TV gaming consoles/PC rigs won't.

Let's try another example.
---

Q.1 Can a smartphone do what a windshield mounted PND does with similar or sometimes even better results. Yes.
Q.2 Can a smartphone do what a high end PND (for marine and other applications) does with similar or sometimes better results? No.

Now you know why the Garmins of this world are hemorrhaging sales in the consumer PND segment and what's keeping them afloat is their marine GPS business.

Again, none of the above is rocket science or a matter of someone's opinion/bias. Its pretty obvious when one looks at the hard data. Also one cannot compare at some broad superficial level and draw conclusions based on it. Otherwise we can also conclude that cars will make air travel extinct!

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 08 Jun 2013 04:48

hanumadu wrote:
Raja Bose wrote:
I thought they are leaked by device manufacturers to create hype and buzz and get people get used to the idea of the device. The bump on the supposed EOS definitely needs getting used to. Some times the leaks are of computer generated renders than the devices. Only the designers would have access to those.

These pictures look like prototyping samples from GB's design labs rather than mass manufacturing from ODMs or contract manufacturers.

Till date all the leaks I have come across from pretty much any manufacturer's device all happened from one of their Tier-I OEMs in chipanda.

ODMs will do all the limited prototyping from engineering verification samples and above unless the device is manufactured in-house (in case of GB's smartphones that rarely happens now except their low-end Lumias and Asha stuff). So its quite likely its from them. If you have worked at any of these HW device vendors who do CE, the prototyping facilities and design studios are pretty stringent in terms of security so leaks at this stage will cause a person to lose their job and get sued by their (ex-) employer. The only one with really lax security that I have seen is Motor Oil. Companies will never proactively leak stuff which is semi-built/non-final mainly becoz it always carries a negative connotation and never helps their cause. That is why I also doubt the source of the leak is GB itself.

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 08 Jun 2013 07:32

Sammy has outed its f-ugly take on phone camera combo. Boy its ugly!! Note looks like Audrey Hepburn compared to it.

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 08 Jun 2013 07:33

I made the console analogy just as a food for thought. Seriously speaking what do you think the console market would be? Last gen consoles were introduced when smartphone was in its infancy and tablet gaming was non existent.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 08 Jun 2013 08:06

Anujan wrote:I made the console analogy just as a food for thought. Seriously speaking what do you think the console market would be? Last gen consoles were introduced when smartphone was in its infancy and tablet gaming was non existent.

The game console market has always addressed a niche - a fairly large niche but nevertheless a niche. Till now it has been about games onlee with serious gamers mainly being the core market. The reason was very game controller-centric. The controller (suprisingly) defined the target audience. It was true for all the PSs, Nintendos and XBoxs. Then Nintendo came up with the Wii with its Wii controller which appealed to a much broader audience of casual gamers, gamers who don't swear by specific controllers. Then Mickey came up with the Kinect+Voice recognition where you did not need to use a controller (the tagline was "your body is the controller"), that opened up the console to an even broader audience. This led to a whole lot of family friendly and lifestyle type games (health/fitness/dance) crop up and after a long while females were acknowledged as an influential part of the gaming market. Before that games for females were typically given the "Make it Pink"* treatment and crap like Barbie video games were produced.

Now the focus from Sony and Mickey is to make the console morph into a set-top box to appeal to every family's living room. Nintendo is struggling with that notion given their pure gaming roots dating back ages and hardcore gaming culture in their company. Hardcore gamers are going OUTRAGE!!!!! but I think this will make the console segment more mass market. And stuff like the new Kinect have taken HCI to a whole different level even though the darn thing can detect your heart beating at 20 ft.

So will the smartphone/tablet gaming kill the gaming console market? IMHO no. Consoles did not rise to solve the problem of mobile gaming. Both serve very different needs and cater to very different UX such that even the most popular games on both categories of devices are quite different. What we will see in the future is a lot more interop between smartphone/tablet gaming and console gaming. And this is not just WiDi/Airplay/Miracast remote streaming or using your mobile device as a controller stuff. Some are moving their gaming brands and top game publishers across platforms (example XBox). The gaming console + TV is literally the battle for the consumers' living room where you have the TV box folks on one side (FruitCo, Chacha, Roku etc.) vs the game console guys on the other side (Sony, Nintendo) and some who come from mixed roots of both TV and gaming (Mickey). The dark horses and elephants in the room here are folks like Sammy who are traditionally TV manufacturers but have significant CE+mobile chops and a growing apps/ecosystem portfolio but no product in this segment yet.

---
*The "Make it Pink" is a common syndrome in product design across many product categories. The (somewhat condescending) premise being that to make your product appeal to women, you need to make it girly and that equates to making it pink. The sad truth is, doing so basically alienates the very target audience you are trying to attract (women). Here is an example. Read some of the comments left by women as reviews.

I use this as a popular example of how not to do design and marketing.

Prasad · Post by **Prasad** » 08 Jun 2013 08:15

Compact camera revenues accounted for 23% of canons revenue in 2012 even though the dslr numbers are lower by a similar ratio. Industry watchers are of the opinion that compact marketshare is falling due to increasing smartphone numbers. It will take more than a couple of years for real pressure on that segment though since everyone and their mother is focussing on the micro four thirds and mirrorless ranges. So its not quite clear cut. There are tons of people who want more than what their fones get them and arent ready to pony up the dough or take the effort of lugging a dslr like a few nuts like moetullah or me. So lets not call the death of that segment yet. I dont see how smartphones can get bigger sensors and algorithms and processorsand optics like dedicated cameras. Remember canon cimpacts use the same digics that run on their 5ds and 1Ds.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 08 Jun 2013 08:23

Prasad wrote:Industry watchers are of the opinion that compact marketshare is falling due to increasing smartphone numbers.

That's the reason some companies like Sony actually went back and redesigned the silicon of its Exmor DSP to make it suitable for use in smartphones. This should be a trend to watch if Nikon and Canon do the same - I recall Canon showing off something like that back in 2011, don't know if it went into any product yet (unlikely).

Prasad · Post by **Prasad** » 08 Jun 2013 08:29

Raja Bose wrote:
Prasad wrote:Industry watchers are of the opinion that compact marketshare is falling due to increasing smartphone numbers.
That's the reason some companies like Sony actually went back and redesigned the silicon of its Exmor DSP to make it suitable for use in smartphones. This should be a trend to watch if Nikon and Canon do the same - I recall Canon showing off something like that back in 2011, don't know if it went into any product yet (unlikely).

Nikon uses exmore sensors for imaging and not for processing. Canon uses digics for processing and is working on an exmore competitor to battle its low light noise performance. Havent heard of smartphones though.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 08 Jun 2013 09:00

^^Rumor is it will appear in GB and Sony phunwas.

---

In other chaiwallah news, looks like Chacha's Chashma may go in for a non-cloud based speech recognition engine instead of just relying on Chacha's home-grown solution if the product continues into v2 and beyond. The one they are allegedly evaluating is a favourite of mine (its the only one I know of which can consistently understand heavily slurred speech

) so it would be good to see it in that device - lord knows it needs a better speech recognition especially for Asian speakers.

ArmenT · Post by **ArmenT** » 08 Jun 2013 09:54

For all you gadget fanatics, here's a guitar piece written by a Spanish classical guitarist named Francisco Tarrega who lived in the late 1800s/early 1900s. Never heard of him?? Guaranteed you've heard a bit of his composition though. Here's a piece called Gran Vals (listen carefully around the 0:18 second mark).

Yes folks, this is the origin of the world's first musical ringtone!

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 08 Jun 2013 10:00

^^^I dunno if it was the world's first musical ringtone but it still is the world's most played musical piece on a daily basis - the GB ringtone. Its been my ringtone regardless of which manufacturer's phone I have used.

pradeepe · Post by **pradeepe** » 08 Jun 2013 11:09

Raja Bose wrote:^^Rumor is it will appear in GB and Sony phunwas.

---

In other chaiwallah news, looks like Chacha's Chashma may go in for a non-cloud based speech recognition engine instead of just relying on Chacha's home-grown solution if the product continues into v2 and beyond. The one they are allegedly evaluating is a favourite of mine (its the only one I know of which can consistently understand heavily slurred speech ) so it would be good to see it in that device - lord knows it needs a better speech recognition especially for Asian speakers.

Nuance? CMU Sphinx?
What are the other good ones?

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 08 Jun 2013 12:25

These are no good for on device speech reco.

Lilo · Post by **Lilo** » 08 Jun 2013 14:06

Raja Bose wrote:Lenovos seem like a hit and miss right now when it comes to smartphones. In terms of screen they are in the middle with typical ODM sourced displays - neither great nor turd. Haven't used any Lenovo phones extensively to form an opinion unlike Samsung.

Thanks RB ji.

Its now released only in China India and couple other asian countries.
US and oirope have to wait

.

I for one am happy that yet another phonemaker is considering India as a major market and bringing the best wares on the day 1 unlike the chi chi Fruit company - which has made a habit of dangling its latest iphunwa for a couple of quarters before it brings it to the turd wurld markets that too with its jacked up prices.

Although according to anandtech Intel's Clover Trail+ @32nm is supposed to match up equivalently with atleast Cortex a9 on say GNote2. I think that battery at 2500mah for 5.5" is on the weaker side.Might have been a sacrifice to achive the 6.5mm slimness.

another review -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5UNjk36ES0

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 08 Jun 2013 16:43

Raja Bose wrote: Maybe you haven't been reading all this while. The smartphone has put the P&S camera in decline not the DSLR cameras. Is that so hard to comprehend and understand? Do folks in the camera dhaaga or Vishal take their fabulous IAF shots with a P&S camera? No! Do 85-90% of the camera using population fall in that category in which you and Vishal belong? No! For them the P&S segment will go extinct just like the PND category.....its already started.

Ahh...There you go again, dost. This is what you can't see and insist to keep the blinders on. P&S are evolving, just like everything else and the rest of the world doesn't stand still. There is a move to go away from the OVF, coupled with the fact of using a larger sensor. You will have a very capable small camera, that will be a P&S, but will have many of the capabilities of a DSLR. The smart phone may take the place of a $100-$200 P&S, it's not there yet, but not of a $300-$400 P&S. Another thing you can't seem to realize is that people who shoot with a DSLR, also keep a capable P&S with them most of the time. The Sony RX-100 is a good example as is the Olympus XZ-2 or Fujifilm X20 of what the near future holds for the P&S category. Yes, right now these are $500-600, but will see a 20% price drop when more are produced.

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 08 Jun 2013 16:47

Prasad wrote:Nikon uses exmore sensors for imaging and not for processing. Canon uses digics for processing and is working on an exmore competitor to battle its low light noise performance. Havent heard of smartphones though.

Vic Gundotra gave an interview some months ago, stating he would like to see a nice camera in the next Nexus phone and rumor was that Nikon was brought in to work on this. It isn't clear which company was getting Nikon to do this, Google or the OEM that will make the Nexus 5.

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 08 Jun 2013 16:51

Prasad wrote:Compact camera revenues accounted for 23% of canons revenue in 2012 even though the dslr numbers are lower by a similar ratio. Industry watchers are of the opinion that compact marketshare is falling due to increasing smartphone numbers. It will take more than a couple of years for real pressure on that segment though since everyone and their mother is focussing on the micro four thirds and mirrorless ranges. So its not quite clear cut. There are tons of people who want more than what their fones get them and arent ready to pony up the dough or take the effort of lugging a dslr like a few nuts like moetullah or me. So lets not call the death of that segment yet. I dont see how smartphones can get bigger sensors and algorithms and processorsand optics like dedicated cameras. Remember canon cimpacts use the same digics that run on their 5ds and 1Ds.

What is interesting for CMOS sensors is that Fujifilm is working on Foveon type sensors, Sony on Exmor back lit sensors, and Canon on improving quantum efficiency of photosites.

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 08 Jun 2013 20:10

Yet another reason not to buy the new XboX.

MSFT PARTNERS WITH NSA TO USE XBOX TO SPY ON INDIVIDUALS

Microsoft will lead Silicon Valley companies and use their console to gather data about its users, particularly through the Kinect, and collect it through the online connection users can’t avoid.

P.S. Be very afraid of Office 365 or you may get a knock on your door from the FBI. A police state is here.

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 08 Jun 2013 20:15

^^^Also another reason to use a stand alone camera with WiFi, GPS & BT disabled. Every time you take a shot with your camera phone, it goes straight to the spooks computers for pattern recognition.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 08 Jun 2013 20:18

^ ha ha Mort, a nice leap into the sun and coming down with a sweeping slash of the wooden katana...

its not just msft. post-911 remember "lawful intercept"? secretive american-citizens-only workgroups in every co out there were tasked to put in backdoors to allow "law enforcement" to snoop on any flow. in some instances significant amt of rework was needed because the hw/sw was not geared on those lines. but they had to staff and do it anyway because its was govt diktat.

the religious wars here between smartphonecam and P&S reminds me of these lyrics...every man living by the "warrior code of his cause" to the death

"For You"

All I saw was smoke and fire
I didn’t feel a thing
But suddenly I was rising higher
And I felt like I just made
The biggest mistake
When I thought about my unborn child
When I thought about my wife
And the answer rang out clear
From somewhere up above
No greater gift has man
Than to lay down his life for love

And I wonder, would I give my life
Could I make that sacrifice
If it came down to it
Could I take the bullet, I would
Yes I would, for you

Maybe you don’t understand
I don’t understand it all myself
But there’s a brother on my left and another on my right
And in his pocket just like mine
He’s got a photograph
And they’re waiting for him back home
It’s weighing on my mind
I’m not trying to be a hero
I don’t wanna die
But right now in this moment, you don’t think twice

I wonder, would I give my life
Could I make that sacrifice
If it came down to it
Could I take the bullet, I would
Yes I would

You don’t think about right
You don’t think about wrong
You just do what you gotta do, to defend your own
I’d do the same
For you
Yes I would

I would give my life
I would make that sacrifice
Cause if it came down to it
Could I take a bullet
For you
Yes I would

I’d do it for you

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 08 Jun 2013 20:55

^^^:)

It should ruffle a few feathers.

On a more serious note, notice how all of this snooping became enforced in Jan. 2009 right before Ombaba came in? I attribute it to Mumbai Nov. 2008 when several TSP operatives were using a single Hotmail account and keeping a log of their activities/surveillance without actually sending the email. It makes it a little harder to detect without being able to get in on the actual mail server.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 08 Jun 2013 21:15

Got a Nexus 7 / Asus wala for kids from amazon.
http://www.amazon.com/Asus-Nexus-1B32-7 ... ini+tablet

Now, I have to get them maximize its use, edu purpose onlee. Any suggestion is welcome.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 08 Jun 2013 21:48

Mort Walker wrote:^^^Also another reason to use a stand alone camera with WiFi, GPS & BT disabled. Every time you take a shot with your camera phone, it goes straight to the spooks computers for pattern recognition.

And what do you think happens when you upload your pics from your "stand alone" camera to your computer?

You are already under surveillance 24/7 from a ton of other sources....your smartphone, your desktop, your laptop, your cable box, your landline, security cams all over the place, your ATM, your credit card usage, your badge at work, traffic cams and toll booth cams which can read your vehicle's license plate, your airline travel.....getting a standalone camera or not buying XBox One will hardly get you off the grid when it comes to spooks watching you. They don't need a Kinect to watch you, they already have a source which is on 24/7 and which goes with you everywhere - your smartphone. By law no mobile device can be sold in USA which cannot be monitored by US Govt agencies. Talk about misplaced paranoia!

*Hands Mort a tin foil hat* this is will atleast help prevent them from monitoring your brain waves.

BTW keep off Google Docs too - all your secret mijjile flight taknikis have been copied by the NSA and are now being applied by NASA for the Mars mission.