Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Hari Seldon
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Hari Seldon » 18 Jun 2013 03:46

Unlike the dynasty which considers itself unaccountable and hence inaccessible to us unwashed masses (Sonia's *never* given a single interview, not even in any time, place, format or language of her choosing), NM has been doing interactive sessions wherein he takes (unscripted!) Qs from the aam aadmi and media alike.

Here's an interesting one...

http://www.narendramodi.in/shri-modi-at ... ession-on-‘achieving-india’s-full-economic-potential’-with-mr-jim-o’niell-renowned-economist-who-headed-goldman-sachs/

Shri Modi attends interactive session on ‘Achieving India’s Full Economic Potential’ with Mr. Jim O’Neill, renowned economist who headed Goldman Sachs

Thats from narendramodi.in, NM's own website putup to bypass media badmashi and reach the masses directly.

On the evening of Monday 17th June 2013 Shri Narendra Modi attended an interactive session on ‘Achieving India’s Full Economic Potential’ with Mr. Jim O’Neill, a world-renowned economist with an expertise on emerging markets. Mr. O’Neill also headed Goldman Sachs. The interactive session was a part of Vibrant Gujarat Lecture Series.

Shri Modi recalled that it was back in 2003 when Goldman Sachs, led by Mr. O’Neill predicted that BRIC nations would overtake G-6 nations by 2050. “The world was taken aback and we were pleasantly surprised,” Shri Modi affirmed. However the Chief Minister pointed out that India has not been able to grow to its full potential during the last decade due to uncertain and uneven growth, which is further compounded by policy paralysis and mis-governance. “We have lost a historic opportunity in the process,” said Shri Modi.


Ain't that last bit poignantly true? But here's more on what the man chooses to read and where his ideas are coming from and being shaped by...

During his speech, the Chief Minister complemented Mr. O’Neill for his 2008 paper, ’10 Things for India to Achieve its 2050 Potential’ and stated that he had read his paper with keen interest.
[...]
In his speech, Mr. Jim O’Neill spoke about the ten challenges for India to achieve its 2050 potential. The challenges included improving governance, raising basic educational achievements, increasing quality & quantity of users, controlling inflation, introducing a credible fiscal policy with a medium term strategy, liberalizing the financial market, increasing trade with neighbours, increasing agriculture production, improving infrastructure and improving the environment quality.


A link to a transcript to NM's entire speech (sprinkled with facts and figs) is there also.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Manish_Sharma » 18 Jun 2013 04:17

Sanku wrote:
SwamyG wrote:Akhilesh Misra is saying something similar to what I said "The Lost Decade" of India. INC + BJP together should share the blame. INC for its actions, BJP for its inaction.


The blame is on all those who thought man mohan was good. In democracy the praja is raja.

BJP tried, Indians let themselves down.


Laakh rupaye ki baat, remember Sanku ji when mms had thrown the file, given by opposition & Advani ji. How media and aam naagrik's were gloating of the strength :roll: shown by humble genius mms.

Its a problem of 3 'P's : Politicians, Press & Public.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby disha » 18 Jun 2013 04:26

Blow to Modi. Modi implements very few of O'Neill's proposal for achieving India's potential.

In a major blow to Modi., Modi admitted that he has read O'Neill's proposal to address India's challenge and implemented only a very few of them.

Modi has implemented only improved governance which got only silver award from the UN about direct access to state officials. And the "Kanya Kevalini abhiyan" is a sham., where Modi and his state officials in government go on a jumbooree to remote villages of Gujarat at government expense. It has been called a communal program by PadmaShree Teesta since 9 out of 10 girls going to school are Hindus. An unnamed state official admitted that the exercise is for achieving only basic educational requirement. Modi in a very biased manner and authoritarian manner tom-tommed his concept of skill, scale and speed and pointed out the various colleges and ITIs have been upgraded to cater to his governments goal of increasing quality and quantity of its educated citizens.

Additionally, a close BJP insider said that Modi has deviated from his core hindutva agenda for talking about trade with Sindh and further catering to the Sindhi lobby. Modi also exaggerated that Gujarat state has the largest coastline in India which was immediately contested by people hailing from Kerala. It was pointed out that the Gujarat has the smallest coastline compared to the nations coastline. Modi's is now eyeing port development for his hindutva experiment.

In a major setback, a world renowned ad agency pointed out in its study that the Gujarat's road infrastructure is definitely not better than Germany's road infrastructure. The power surplus in the state is inequitable since large amount of power may be smuggled to power deficit states like Maharashtra.

Out of O'Neill's list of governance, education, skill development, inflation, fiscal policy, financial market liberalization, foreign trade, agricultural production, infrastructure and environment quality., Modi could not make any significant impact on inflation, fiscal policy, financial market liberalization. And calling Musharraf - Mia Musharraf., Mia being an honorific used for muslims by Gujarathis., Modi made enemies with Pakistanis.

Modi again came to power after Godhra riots in 2002 where Arundhati roy confirmed over phone that she got a phone call from Gujarat on which she heard that 100000 foetuses were aborted over last decade.

- By pappu correspondent., Disha Murkha Dutt

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby sunnyP » 18 Jun 2013 04:43

Muppalla wrote:
apoorv wrote:Modi will meet Advani tomorrow. Any idea what will be discussed?


Modi will carry a special ayurvedic oil prepared personally by Baba Ramdev. It is called Vaardhakya-dosha-nivarana-thailam. Dasoge:Two ounces on the baldhead every two hours and not venture for an hour after 30 minutes of massge into any place where there is light. Once the cure is done he can become PM of India in 2024.



:lol:

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby member_26147 » 18 Jun 2013 04:50

Great replies, SwamyG and Disha! Keep up the good work.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Sushupti » 18 Jun 2013 04:52

Today's coulmn by Ashutosh Varshneya in IE is surprisingly sweet

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Kakkaji » 18 Jun 2013 04:58

DhruvP wrote:Great replies, SwamyG and Disha! Keep up the good work.


But, but, Theo Saar is not convinced. :roll:

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby krisna » 18 Jun 2013 05:19

Kakkaji wrote:
DhruvP wrote:Great replies, SwamyG and Disha! Keep up the good work.


But, but, Theo Saar is not convinced. :roll:


Point to note is --
1) critics are valid only if taken in right context. Vina and Theo want to have a go at NaMo-- no problems with it.
2) we dont have to prove it to vina and Theo whetehr they are right or wrong in their criticisms. our job is to take their criticisms in the right spirit and bring out any shortfall in NaMo.
3) response mechanism of NaMo is amazing compared to congis machinery. If there is truth in vina and Theo and their ilk, corrections will be done in due course by NaMo team.


Main job is not to disprove these worthies(useless time wasters-can never be done ) but to improve the shortcomings of NaMo and his team.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
with a twist, allow me to say this-
in napaki dhaaga it is commonly said "jo lahore mein #$%^ etc etc same thing holds good for these congis.

No point in educating these folks, only thing we arm ourselves with their criticisms and improve upon it.

jmts.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby disha » 18 Jun 2013 05:38

Kakkaji wrote:
DhruvP wrote:Great replies, SwamyG and Disha! Keep up the good work.


But, but, Theo Saar is not convinced. :roll:


I am not into convincing anybody. It is their choice who they support or vote or critic. The point is., if you support Congress., please be prepared to explain this:

1. Falling economy, high inflation
2. Rising corruption
3. Pathetic state of foreign affairs
4. Division across language, religious and caste lines.
5. Large inequities

Particularly the 1,4 and the 5th poing need to be defendend by the Congress supporters.

Here is a sample on division across caste lines, this news is now on back burner and nowhere does it show up on google search. Hence reproducing in full. :

http://www.deccanherald.com/content/339441/caste-factor-reason-behind-sisram.html

Caste factor reason behind Sisram Ola, Girija Vyas inclusion
P J Joychen, Jaipur, June 17, 2013, DHNS:
The veteran Jat leader from Rajasthan, Sisram Ola who defied the advise to retire into the Raj Bhavan finally grabbed a Cabinet berth in the latest rejig of the Union Cabinet on Monday.

The decision to include the 85-year-old from Jat heartland Jhunjhunu in the cabinet is viewed as more of a political compulsion for the Congress. The assembly election is due in Rajasthan by the end of this year.

The Jat community constitutes sizeable 13 % of the electorate in Rajasthan and the unceremonious exit of Jat leaders like Mahipal Maderna and Malkhan Singh following the alleged abduction and killing of ANM Bhanwari Devi had created heartburn in the Jat community.

The BJP has been wooing the Jats blaming the chief minister of implicating these leaders to settle political scores. There were also talks of some of these leaders may jump into the BJP bandwagon before the elections to teach Chief Minister Ashok Gehlot a lesson. Another Congress leader who found a Cabinet berth is Girija Vyas.

She is considered as a replacement to C P Joshi who was deputed for party work. Both are Brahmins who belong to Mewar region (exactly the same place of Nathdwara in Udaipur) and were colleagues in the Mohanlal Sukhadia University. But politically both were in the opposite camps.

While Joshi was a Gehlot acolyte and dabbled in state politics , Vyas was considered in the opposite camp including Sisram Ola and was in national politics.

But it was by sheer bad luck that she missed a ministerial birth at the centre to Joshi.
Joshi who was the president of the Pradesh Congress committee was defeated by just a single vote in the last assembly from Nathdwara. There was sympathy for Joshi who brought the Congress back to power but lost out by a vote who was also a strong contender for the post of chief minister.

The party then contested him from the parliamentary seat from Bhilwara and he came out victorious with a land slide margin.


All Congress supporters., particularly residing outside of India need to answer this:

1. Why do they follow Uniform Civil Code of their host countries and why they oppose it in India. If they support it., automatically they should think of supporting BJP.

2. What about candid interviews from the dynasty parivar? None so far. Even the coached ones have failed.

3. Where is their vision? Any discussion beyond vituperative debate on communalism and always something about "I am feeling uncomfortable".

4. Where is their stand on pernicious effect on conversions? In fact, one of the member here openly advocated that other members should convert (nary an apology from the same forum member).

If there has to be a debate., let it be a debate on facts - subjective saying like "I am feeling uncomfortable"., or saying the Hindu right is bad since the christian right or the muslim right has been bad without any evidence is counter productive. It is basically trolling on emotions and is a waste of time and energy (and since it is trolling on emotions., a stronger direct counter should be expected - but is not tolerated).

Regarding Modi, even SC/SIT is defending its own report. At that stage Modi is exonerated. Ishrat has been proven a terrorist or at most a clueless teen head over heels in love with a terrorist. It is a pathetic attempt to arrive at wink-wink nudge-nudge guilt by association.

Ones who feel uncomfortable., what is their stand on Sadhvi Pragya? Let me take a bet here., they will not answer. And if they answer it will be shifted subtly and the blame will be pointed back or something from the left or the outfield will be brought into to trash any further debate.

Regarding Saurabuddin and Kausar-bi another wink-wink nudge-nudge and guilt by association. And now they have brought in Haren Pandya. what about 100s of killing in Mah, Kerala, Odisha, Haryana, Delhi - both political and ordinary? What happened to YSR? To Madhav rao Scindia? To Sachin Pilot? To Karma? Why "madam" is not angry?

Even Brahma cannot make persons wise if they chose to be blinded, ignorant and want to remain unwise.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby SwamyG » 18 Jun 2013 06:06

1) Poverty, quality education, lack of staff reasons for girls dropping out.
http://dayatrust.com/importance-girls-education

2) Schools in rural areas lack basic facilities - running water, usable urinals & playgrounds
http://www.dnaindia.com/india/1791233/r ... still-high

3) As girls grow older, they drop out because they need to work at home or get married. Eve-teasing another reason.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/201 ... ortunities

4) No interest, financial constraints, domestic and other economic activities, no facilities. Page #143 talks about lack of privacy and toilets as a reason for girls dropping out.
http://www.journalcra.com/sites/default ... 201010.pdf

5)Argues poverty and household chores are not reasons, but lack of quality teachers and their ratio. Cites lack of toilets as one reason parents pull out girls.
http://www.time.com/time/world/article/ ... 26,00.html

6)This is from NDTV (no friend of Modi). Read it in FULL.
If you thought poverty or family resistance are the primary reasons for girls to drop out of school, then this will come as a shocker - many of them prefer to drop out, simply because their schools have no toilets for girls.

A report by the UNICEF has also found that in government schools in India, where these facilities are available, attendance has gone up, especially that of girls, by as much as 14 per cent.

"When it comes to girls, they are the biggest losers. The only way to get them to school and ensure they don't feel vulnerable is to make this campaign successful. But it's not always easy," said JS Mathur, Joint Secretary (Sanitation), Rural Development Ministry.

Studies indicate providing private and separate sanitary latrines in school can increase girls' enrolment and help keep them in school as they enter adolescence. While the government is doing its bit to take this forward, public awareness and a public-private partnership could pave way for better facilities, awareness, and increased learning in the long run.

http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/girls ... ties-88169


7) Lack of sanitary protection causes 23% of girls to drop out of school.
Disclaimer: This study might have commerical interests by sanitary napkin manufacturers/sellers. So take it with a pinch of salt.
http://www.infochangeindia.org/women/ne ... chool.html

But then one can compare with what other blogs/material say about this topic: http://www.good.is/posts/one-fix-for-ru ... ne-hygiene

Facing the embarrassment of staining their clothes, nowhere to change their makeshift sanitary cloths, and no means to dispose of them if they could, young girls who are now seen by their families as eligible for marriage soon find themselves with plenty of reasons to stay home.


8. ) A Planning Commission study
(A major infrastructural reason for absenteeism of girls and lady teachers is lack of proper drinking water and toilet
facilities in the school).

http://planningcommission.nic.in/report ... y_ecdo.pdf


9) Cites drinking water is more a problem and than toilets
http://etheses.whiterose.ac.uk/1102/2/Thesis.pdf
The availability of toilets, heralded by the government as one means to reduce
absenteeism, was perceived as unimportant by the parents, at least at the primary stage.

But this is in primary classes.
The same paper argues that
But this actually is a very important
factor, there should be a toilet in every school for girls, whether it is primary
or middle school, a toilet should be there and it should be used.


10)In Maharashtra
Parents don't send their daughters to school because thousands of schools do not have toilets. Many schools have built toilets but they are pathetically maintained. We have started a project to make sanitation facilities available in schools

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/maha ... 41854.html


I think the above sampling is enough to conclude that sanitation is considered important when it comes to girls and schools. There are other reasons, and studies highlight them all. In villages where toilets at home can be tough to find, if schools provide clean toilets, then it is really heaven sent.

As one would observe, several States have progressive views about this and are taking steps - including the Center. The only thing we could fault Modi is that he is bragging about activities of Gujarat that other states are performing too. But then, that is how democracy works - one has to claim one's good works. Other leaders/States are free to proclaim and rightly bring out their development work. It would only bring joy to aam admi.
Last edited by SwamyG on 18 Jun 2013 07:11, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Kakkaji » 18 Jun 2013 06:10

Bravo, disha ji!

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby SwamyG » 18 Jun 2013 06:13

krisna wrote:No point in educating these folks, only thing we arm ourselves with their criticisms and improve upon it.

jmts.

I disagree. It so happens that I have managed to influence one individual here. It is not that he was opposed to Modi. Just that he was neutral, and right articles and points sent by me helped him come to a conclusion. He now has managed to "convert" 5 men back in his home town - who routinely voted INC because it was the party of "Gandhi and Nehru". And these people live in agarharams, and they have vouched that their womenfolk will vote for Modi too. These are the same people who conduct pooja in the temples for JJ's victory and think it rains because JJ visited their town.

If you convince Theo, he can influence a handful of his family back home. Remember the nuclear dhaaga discussion, NRIs have considerable influence on families/clans back home. And rightly or wrongly, in desh, when some elder decides one way or the other tens and hundreds join them.

Point is, if you convince Theo, you might be instrumental in getting 100s of votes for Modi. Theo saar is pawarful onlee :mrgreen: And it always helps us research and argue with better stronger points. Good onlee.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby disha » 18 Jun 2013 06:38

SwamyG wrote:As one would observe, several States have progressive views about this and are taking steps - including the Center. The only thing we could fault Modi is that he is bragging about activities of Gujarat that other states are performing too. But then, that is how democracy works - one has to claim one's good works. Other leaders/States are free to proclaim and rightly bring out their development work. It would only bring joy to aam admi.


First of all many thanks for researching and bringing out those links. Lot of time and effort and much appreciated.

Second., what is wrong in highlighting your achievements? Modi knows that the glare of media is on him and thus by extension on his state machinery. If he says that 100 toilets were constructed and kept clean., media will go and try to find out which ones are not constructed and kept clean and highlight them. Without any effort, Modi has got a QA organization on his state machinery.

Third, if I go and say in Kutch that Dangs have a better toilet facilities for their school, the local community pride takes over. Check dams in Saurashtra happend for that very reason. And since it is a constructive competition., the net result is improvement. Why fault Modi on that? It is like saying., if I were his speech writer - I would have said this.

Anyway, he does not stop other CMs to talk about their activities., so why is Modi faulted? False humility is actually wrong and somehow desis equate greatness to false humility. Very wrong.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby SwamyG » 18 Jun 2013 07:14

^^^
No.no.no.no. no.....I am not blaming Modi for claiming his government's good deeds. I am saying he HAS to do so in a democracy.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby disha » 18 Jun 2013 07:26

Perceptions maybe., bragging is when the deed is not done., highlighting is when the deed is done and the message needs to be sent across. Modi is not bragging and neither he is at fault - democracy or not.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Sushupti » 18 Jun 2013 07:43

It's high time we start using a particular Swedish last name instead of "Loh" as a predecessor to Purush for Halal Advani.

Between June 9 and 16 - after Modi's elevation and LK Advani's resignation and its subsequent withdrawal - the see-saw in the BJP-RSS ties propelled Nitish to take a hard line on Modi.

Details of telephonic discussions between Nitish and a section of BJP leaders to checkmate Modi reveal that unless there's some magic of unity, they would oppose the Gujarat chief minister, come what may.

Yet, at the end of it all, Nitish, a known hater of Brand Modi, couldn't just sit back complacently.

He had to chart his own course outside the NDA, much to the disappointment of the BJP leaders who hadn't thought twice about what they would do if their last-ditch efforts to stop Modi by using the 'Nitish card' failed.

As JD(U) insiders saw it, Nitish realised more than these BJP leaders - including Advani , Sushma Swaraj and Nitin Gadkari - that they were in no position to reverse the events of the week that put Modi ahead of others in the first place.

When Advani resigned after Modi's appointment on June 10, Nitish was given an impression by Modi baiters in the BJP that a spate of resignations of at least 10 more BJP office-bearers would force party chief Rajnath Singh to put on hold if not rescind his announcement about the Gujarat strongman.

But in 36 hours Advani withdrew his resignation after ex-party chief Gadkari and RSS chief Mohan Bhagwat spoke to him.

Advani's turnaround surprised Nitish, whose party had by then escalated its position on Modi's appointment to a decision that "leaves the NDA without secular credentials". What followed was even more intriguing.

First, Advani called Nitish on the phone, asking him to "accept" the assurance given when Gadkari met him at Arun Jaitley's home last year. Gadkari's word then that nobody would be projected as PM candidate was still valid, Advani is believed to have said.

But Nitish questioned the assurance as Gadkari was no longer BJP chief
.

Then, Swaraj called Nitish to assure him that "Modi didn't have the numbers in the BJP parliamentary board to endorse his PM candidature and the board couldn't be bypassed in any event."

Nitish then insisted that BJP leaders get Rajnath Singh to publicly say that no one would be projected. Rajnath declined to do so, saying it was an internal party matter.

Swaraj is understood to have then conceded to Nitish that it wasn't possible for the BJP to publicly reverse its decision on Modi.

It was then, JD(U) sources said, that Nitish remarked that "if Advani could not stop Modi's appointment as chairman of the NDA and BJP parliamentary party, and his resignation from all posts did not alter things, what was the meaning of the assurances that Modi wouldn't make it as PM candidate."

Nitish will chart his next course but the big question is how these BJP leaders will deal with the BJP under Modi after their best efforts to stop him have not borne fruit.

What will Modi's response towards them be? Will they be able to shake hands with each other? Will the RSS intervene again to tell them that the Congress is the main enemy?

And, will they and Modi just move on along the lines of TS Eliot's Four Quartets: "What we call the beginning is often the end. And to make an end is to make a beginning. The end is where we start from."

http://www.hindustantimes.com/India-new ... 78080.aspx




Image
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Sushupti » 18 Jun 2013 07:54

Narendra Modi to unveil agenda in Mumbai on

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... ttarget=no

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby SwamyG » 18 Jun 2013 07:55

disha wrote:Perceptions maybe., bragging is when the deed is not done., highlighting is when the deed is done and the message needs to be sent across. Modi is not bragging and neither he is at fault - democracy or not.

Saheb, aap to meaning hi badal dale. :mrgreen: Same side onlee saar. Bragging is kind of boasting....and in my neck of woods it is usually considered with a positive connotation. Like "bragging rights".

BTW, Modi calls off the Ayodhya visit.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Sushupti » 18 Jun 2013 08:25

what a hit job. It could be the case of paid news.

'PM-in-making' Narendra Modi a scary prospect for CBI

AHMEDABAD: A senior CBI official was recently heard complaining about the defensive mode his superiors in Delhi have got into while dealing with Gujarat-related cases. The central investigating agency, which has not yet completely recovered from Supreme Court's 'caged parrot' sting, has become over-cautious, thanks to the frightening possibility of Gujarat chief minister Narendra Modi becoming the next prime minister.

Earlier this month, leader of opposition in Rajya Sabha and Modi's close aide Arun Jaitley had warned CBI for carrying out political agenda while investigating the fake encounter cases. "Regimes are not immortal. I do hope one day a commission of inquiry will investigate the functioning of the CBI, its politicization and all these above cases," he had written.

Obviously, the CBI officials, who have a long career in front of them, are scared of becoming pro-active in cases which could implicate the former minister of state for home Amit Shah. They are well aware of the victimization of IPS officers like Kuldeep Sharma, Ranjeesh Rai, Rahul Sharma and Sanjiv Bhatt who withstood government pressure and refused to toe the political line.

Post-retirement, Kuldeep Sharma is now adviser to the Union home ministry and is said to be the man who is coordinating the legal cases which could land the Gujarat government in further trouble. But even Sharma is not able to make much headway because of the reluctance of officials working in investigating agencies.

Sources said the main reason why Modi was in such a tearing hurry to be declared the BJP's prime ministerial candidate was to insulate himself against such attacks. His appointment as the BJP's campaign committee chairman has itself served the purpose and CBI officials are now wary of proceeding ahead with leads in the multiple encounter cases.

http://m.timesofindia.com/india/PM-in-m ... 639616.cms

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby niran » 18 Jun 2013 08:36

Ashok Sarraff wrote:It would be a major hiccup if (1) RJD, JDU, and Congress unite against BJP given that they possibly hate Modi more than they hate each other; and (2) if MNS does not come on board. 1 and 2 together would amount to a loss of about 20 seats for NDA if not more.

JDU have lost the plot, Sooseal Modi have slowly eroded JDU cadre while strenghtening BJP's cadres since last half a decade or so, this reflected in the Maharajgunj byelection, here JDU decided to go
alone, and got a slap on their faces but(there is always a but) instead of recognizing the true cause
JDU thinks they lost coz Mussalman decided to vote for Laloo which is incorrect, and methinks it is a good development BJP wise if JDU joins UPA then it will be the end of JDU, most proilly Sarad yadav will join BJP and Nitish coomar will be left sucking his own thumb.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Hari Seldon » 18 Jun 2013 09:23

A CRI article that rips into another of bekaar patel and his ilk's subliminal reasons to hate Modi...

http://centreright.in/2013/06/why-india ... b_c2PlHLEw

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Gus » 18 Jun 2013 09:25

Theo_Fidel wrote:One hopes that in its quest for purity the BJP does not forget what politics is about.
Personally this quest for purity makes me uncomfortable.


you are making me uncomfortable with your pissing in the wind.

Show anything to support this statement from top leaders of BJP.

Vikas
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Vikas » 18 Jun 2013 09:30

So Bihar in the end will be like UP where Mayawati and Mulayam oppose each other tooth and nail but support congress at the center. In return Congress keeps CBI on the leash against the two. Isn't this the future we are looking at ?

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Yagnasri » 18 Jun 2013 09:47

Some time back in the other thread - I think it is Historical battles - some one pointed out to an important thing - Hindu rulers who taken other weak and small hindu kingdoms and expanded their kingdoms did much better than those who tired to make a confedaration of many small kingdoms. In case of NDA/BJP also it should have somewhere near 200 to make others come to it. It can not be at 100 and expect other to respect or support to it. Numbers is a must before even talking with outsiders. People will be more willing to bussines with BJP if they know they have a powerful and stable governament in offering and they have no other option. Once BJP and INC put to getter crosses 300 plus there is no scope for 3rd front to emarge without support of either of these. Most of teh 3rd front leaders like CBN can not INC support nor INC can give support to them. So these 3rd front gangs will have very little option other than BJP.

As things stand today INC may lose 50% of its seats and may be around 100 but BJP should gain maximum from this fall and should be near 200. The present set up of UPA2 has both parties put to gether at about 320 with INC at 204. Same kind of situation with BJP at 200 will reverse the roles and power of attracting shifts to BJP. INC may try otherside support thing again. But it would be very difficult for it to Support a CBN as PM and even a Mulayam.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Arjun » 18 Jun 2013 09:56

Sly fox tale: How UPA approved 2 Bihar road projects, split NDA

So now the fog lifts on why Nitish acted the way he did... The centre must have reached an understanding with him to provide funds for development subject to raising the stink against Modi:

According to the ET report today, a visit by then Railway Minister CP Joshi last year to Bihar may have done the deal for the UPA. The projects, which were in limbo from 2010, got a fresh lease of life after this.

However, the report also quotes other senior government officials as saying that the approval for the projects was not timed, but it was just a coincidence.

That may be true. But the Bihar government has always been keen to showcase roads as the symbol of the state’s development.

According to a PTI report, Nitish Kumar while presenting the annual report card of his government in November last year had claimed that except for Kisanganj, road journey from any district headquarters to capital Patna could be made within six hours.

So, given Nitish Kumar’s fixation with road development, one cannot rule the possibility of the UPA using these projects to facilitate the split.

Moreover, the UPA seems to leave no stone unturned to get JD(U) under its fold. What else can explain Prime Minister Manmohan Singh’s sudden realisation that Nitish Kumar is secular?

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby disha » 18 Jun 2013 10:02

SwamyG wrote:
Saheb, aap to meaning hi badal dale. :mrgreen: Same side onlee saar. Bragging is kind of boasting....and in my neck of woods it is usually considered with a positive connotation. Like "bragging rights".
.

Apologies then. I took it as faulty of being braggadicio! :)

BTW, Modi calls off the Ayodhya visit.


When was it ever on? It was floated, lot of print generated and is now called off. Keeps the attention on him and keeps people guessing - maybe good, maybe bad - who knows.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Arjun » 18 Jun 2013 10:04

This thread will be back to being an ideas thread sometime hopefully from July or so, when the campaigning starts in earnest.

Before that, I am hoping there will be some serious blood-letting to eliminate the deadwood from the BJP - with Advani being definitely the first person who needs to be kicked out. I am afraid all the ideas of Modi are going to be a total waste if this moron continues with the BJP.

Here's hoping the house can be set in order by end of the month. The latest from MSM on Advani here:

My worst fears have come true! A disappointed Advani conveys to Rajnath after BJP-JDU split

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Murugan » 18 Jun 2013 10:13

apoorv wrote:Modi will meet Advani tomorrow. Any idea what will be discussed?


Only BundieTV sources know what will be discussed.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby disha » 18 Jun 2013 10:24

Narayana Rao wrote:Some time back in the other thread - I think it is Historical battles - some one pointed out to an important thing - Hindu rulers who taken other weak and small hindu kingdoms and expanded their kingdoms did much better than those who tired to make a confedaration of many small kingdoms. In case of NDA/BJP also it should have somewhere near 200 to make others come to it. It can not be at 100 and expect other to respect or support to it. Numbers is a must before even talking with outsiders. People will be more willing to bussines with BJP if they know they have a powerful and stable governament in offering and they have no other option. Once BJP and INC put to getter crosses 300 plus there is no scope for 3rd front to emarge without support of either of these. Most of teh 3rd front leaders like CBN can not INC support nor INC can give support to them. So these 3rd front gangs will have very little option other than BJP.

As things stand today INC may lose 50% of its seats and may be around 100 but BJP should gain maximum from this fall and should be near 200. The present set up of UPA2 has both parties put to gether at about 320 with INC at 204. Same kind of situation with BJP at 200 will reverse the roles and power of attracting shifts to BJP. INC may try otherside support thing again. But it would be very difficult for it to Support a CBN as PM and even a Mulayam.


Let us see the fun :)

BJP >200 and INC <100., game over for INC., since it will be a curious case of SP+BSP+JDU+TMC+TDP+AIADMK+NCP+RJD on one end, communists on other end, Congress on third and BJP on fourth., with BJP being the single largest party. What are the chances of TDP, AIADMK sitting with Congress? Even TNC will not sit with congress. That leaves SP+BSP+JDU - however if BJP manages to put SP+BSP+JDU on spot in UP+Bihar, what power does SP, BSP, JDU and RJD have? They can do diddly squat. They can all join Cong and still will be short of majority., they can still try to cobble up votes from communists - but then they are jokers of the pack - so less said better.

A best case scenario:

BJP sweeps BiMaRU completely
AIADMK retains TN
TDP comes back in AP (or) Congis+YSR-Jagan gets defeated in AP
TMC comes back in WB
SS+BJP combine keeps NCP+Congis at stalemate.
KA goes into BJP kitty

A worse case scenario is exactly reverse of above and will lead to 2009 situation. BJP will still be the largest opposition party and can bring government to standstill from day one. A prospect Congis will not relish.

Now you see the despondency in Congis :-) NaMo as LOP will still do lot of damage. But of course the man plays to win., has already stated that the road to Delhi goes through Lucknow.

The contest will be keen on some 270 seats and if the strike rate for BJP is 80%., some 216 seats are at play here. It is hardwork but doable.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby RoyG » 18 Jun 2013 11:09


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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Yagnasri » 18 Jun 2013 11:57

I thought 377 seats are in play. 60% hit rate is quite good. CBN, Patnaik, JJ, SS+ parties in MH,AGP, some smaller north east party have no reasons to be "secular" and if SP is going to provide PM candicate in the form of Mulayam then BSP will be forced to support BJP.

Kalyan Singh was the original Hindu Hrudaya Samrat in those days. His administration was very strict in UP and I still remember when he arrested students for copying in exams. Windbag did his best to destroy him and KS also ran behind Kusum Rai and lost every thing. It is good that he is now back at home party BJP and will be contributing positively after a long time.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Sanku » 18 Jun 2013 12:05

Arjun wrote:Before that, I am hoping there will be some serious blood-letting to eliminate the deadwood from the BJP - with Advani being definitely the first person who needs to be kicked out. I am afraid all the ideas of Modi are going to be a total waste if this moron continues with the BJP.


How do you reconcile the your anti Advani stance with your pro Modi stance given that Modi has himself spared no occasion to mention what he thinks of Advani (very highly) and spends as much time as possible working with him? As of right now Modi is in a meeting with Advani. His key lieutenant Amit Shah, began as Advani's campaign organizer in Gandhinagar btw. I dont get how people berate MSM and in the same breath fall hook line and sinker for what MSM says.

Fortunately NaMo is far more an astute politician and a able BJP worker compared to the yahoo image many of his fans want him to be, and hence the real news (which is not from nether sources while visiting Pakistan)

12:15 Modi's meet-and-greet day in Delhi: MM Joshi, Advani and now Atal: Narendra Modi reaches Atal Behari's residence in Delhi to meet him. The Gujarat Chief Minister today met senior BJP leader Murli Manohar Joshi and LK Advani, his first meet-and-greet since his elevation as poll campaign chief.

"He (Modi) came to express his gratitude after being anointed as Chairman of BJP campaign committee," Joshi told media after meeting Modi. " He told me that he is including everyone in the process and will uphold this responsibility well," he added.

Modi, who is in Delhi to meet Planning Commission Deputy Chairman Montek Singh Ahluwalia to finalise the state''s annual plan, will also hold talks with party chief Rajnath Singh and RSS chief Mohan Bhagwat.


So while Modi's fans bad mouth MM Joshi here, NaMo himself makes an effort to work with MM Joshi and establish a good working relationship for the next steps. I wish NaMo's fan actually also learnt from NaMo instead of merely cheering for him.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Singha » 18 Jun 2013 12:34

Theo sir was asking why onlee BJP has a supreme commander now vs the liberal democracy of other parties :oops:

Will sweep the floor if Sonia tells me to: Chhattisgarh Cong chief
CNN-IBN | Updated Jun 18, 2013 at 11:45am IST

Raipur: There's something that could prove embarrassing for Congress President Sonia Gandhi. Newly appointed Chhattisgarh Congress chief Charan Das Mahant has claimed that he is ready to sweep the floor his party office if ordered to do so by Sonia Gandhi.

"I always do whatever is ordered by my party chief Sonia Gandhi and Rahul Gandhi. If Sonia Gandhi orders me to sweep Congress office in Chhattisgarh, I will do so, their order is supreme," Charan Das said.

Charan Das was made the party chief in Chhattisgarh on Sunday as the Congress announced a reshuffle within the party.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Pratyush » 18 Jun 2013 12:45

When one asks people to step back and take a dispassionate look around, they disappear. But BJP and NaMo by extension must be stainless by comparison.

Before they even bother to listen to what BJP is saying.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Arjun » 18 Jun 2013 12:48

Sanku ji,

Modi is making all the right noises about 'including everyone in the process' and I commend him on displaying an appropriate outwardly mature and inclusive demeanor. But he should clearly communicate that there are three redlines that should NOT be crossed. As long as Advani, MMJ and whoever else in the old guard are happy to operate within these redlines - everything's fine, but the consequences of not abiding should be clearly communicated by the RSS-

1) No veto rights over Modi's 'idea of India' or vision he plans to lay out. Modi's fan following is because it is HE who has all the right ideas. Of course Modi would want to incorporate Advani / MMJ and other suggestions as far as possible - but it should be clear that they WILL not have any veto rights if he deems a particular course to be preferable to others. The coming months will primarily be a battle of whose idea of India is better - & it would not be fair to handicap Modi going into the battle.

2) No veto rights over Modi's electoral campaign strategy and candidate selection. Again - I am sure Modi would want to be reasonable and incorporate all suggestions that he agrees with, but veto rights over the appointed Chairman of Campaign Committee cannot be reasonably expected.

3) Until the end of LS elections either this yearend or in 2014 - the leadership needs to present a 'united face' to the public. This would mean that Advani would have to publicly endorse Modi or show in some manner that they are working together. There should NOT be any scope for MSM to create divisions within the party or sow suspicions within the minds of the electorate. Throwing up hands in the old BJP manner and saying "the MSM will do what it will" will NOT work. The organization will have to actively manage what appears in the media through appropriate denials, disclaimers or other means.

As long as Advani and other senior leadership are willing to live by these redlines - they should of course be accorded the respect due to them by Modi and by the party.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Pratyush » 18 Jun 2013 12:51

On second thoughts, I feel that today, if, NaMo is rising / risen, he has done so because of the unrelenting media and INC focus on truing to get him.

That may have made him stronger. But it has also created a negative opinion about him in the minds of a lot of people. While at the same time, this focus has given him a dedicated following of people who are his fan boys.

Now, what can he do in order to make sure that he is able to harness the votes of people who have a negative opinion about him and yet can be reclaimed?

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Chandragupta » 18 Jun 2013 13:26

Pratyush wrote:On second thoughts, I feel that today, if, NaMo is rising / risen, he has done so because of the unrelenting media and INC focus on truing to get him.

That may have made him stronger. But it has also created a negative opinion about him in the minds of a lot of people. While at the same time, this focus has given him a dedicated following of people who are his fan boys.

Now, what can he do in order to make sure that he is able to harness the votes of people who have a negative opinion about him and yet can be reclaimed?


I doubt they can come around. From my interactions, most of these people are fanatics, frothing at the mouth while bad mouthing RSS and NaMo. For them, sickularism is oxygen and I'm not even talking of Abrahamics.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Pratyush » 18 Jun 2013 13:38

Interesting question

The inside story of how Sonia’s spin doctoring works

Interesting answer if true.

So why does a beat reporter toe the line? Answer: for psychic benefits. “If you work for a friendly channel and scrupulously adhere to the rules of the game, he (Ahmad Patel, or some other Congress worthy) could spring a surprise or two by gracing your marriage celebrations – not alone but with Congress Vice-President Rahul Gandhi. Recently, to the utter surprise of journalist colleagues, both made an appearance at the marriage celebrations of a ‘lowly’ Congress beat reporter, whose stock was sent soaring among his network bosses.”

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Pratyush » 18 Jun 2013 13:44

Pro dynasty spin doctoring in full flow

Lok Sabha polls 2014: Back to basics for Congress and BJP

Of course, back then nobody foresaw the implosion in the BJP and the NDA over the former’s decision to elevate Narendra Modi as the face of its election campaign. Everyone underestimated the power of the Congress’s survival instincts; some even predicted its death. Not many were willing to buy that Indian polity is no more about the Congress-BJP duality, but an arrangement of centrifugal forces whose support to national parties is more a matter of convenience than of compulsion.


With the playing field level, from now on it has to be a battle of strategies for the Congress and the BJP. Their task is cut out. They not only have to win a good number of seats but also attract allies to add to the numbers to go beyond the 272 mark. Touching 150 appears difficult for both at the moment.


It’s an arduous, long-term process. But Rahul has shown no fatigue so far. Many might find it a pointless, even an escapist, exercise but anybody with even pedestrian understanding of politics would acknowledge that leaders amount to nothing without a strong organisational network to fall back upon. He is busy with the basics; the media critics can keep debating whether he is prime minister material or not.

And yes, while Rahul is at it, the party is making its caste maths right.It was evident in yesterday’s Union cabinet reshuffle. The Congress is shifting whom it perceives to be efficient back to the organisation. It does not expect the reputation of the government to give it a victory and it does not expect the urban middle class’s perception of the government or the party to change dramatically no matter what it delivers now. So, the safe bet is to go back to the rural voter, which has so far shown no great resentment towards it. If it’s armed with something like the Food Security Act, it would provide the grassroots workers an effective talking point.


Modi is a polarising leader. It’s this specific asset that the wider Sangh Parivar is going to utilise to the hilt. The simple logic is, what’s the point having Modi at the top if there’s no polarisation? That’s his strength. All that talk of development and growth is for the consumption of the middle class and it could be countered easily with statistics. But to get votes eleswhere, polarisation is necessary. [i]Don’t be surprised if you hear of the revival of the Ram temple movement soon from the fringe elements of the Sangh Parivar and the beginning of a mobilisation on a specific religious issue. The Congress is waiting for an electoral windfall by way of counter polarisation.[/i]


It is in this light that we have to see the recent rumor of NaMo visiting Ayodhya and then canceling his visit.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Sanku » 18 Jun 2013 14:05

Arjun wrote:Sanku ji,

Modi is making all the right noises about 'including everyone in the process' and I commend him on displaying an appropriate outwardly mature and inclusive demeanor.


So Arjun ji, is your point that Modi is putting up a charade and a show but is not really working in an inclusive manner?

If so I disagree, Modi is very straightforward, he will not cross his value systems and pretend, and in this case he has no need to since they people concerned are all cut from the same cloth.

He will genuinely work with others.

Also I believe you are still not getting how Modi is Modi only in his identity as a RSS-BJP man and there is a much bigger back ground to the person --

1) No veto rights over Modi's 'idea of India' or vision he plans to lay out.


There is only a Sangh idea of India which NaMo is a part of, he has made it quite clear. All the CMs are following the same, tailored to their contexts.

2) No veto rights over Modi's electoral campaign strategy and candidate selection.


Again a incorrect picture, the candidates will be chosen by a combination of the committe, the local prabhari and CM. Modi has to work with others and will do so.

Alone he is nobody, with everyone along, he is everybody.

3) Until the end of LS elections either this yearend or in 2014 - the leadership needs to present a 'united face' to the public. T.


Not necessarily, BJP is a collective democratic party, let people say different things and pull in different directions, with in limits. There is no facist my way or high way congress culture here.

Let BJP win by being itself.


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