West Asia News and Discussions

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 27 Jun 2013 11:30

Saudi foreign minister says Syrians facing genocide

Prince Saud al-Faisal, Saudi Arabia’s foreign minister, said that his country will help Syrian rebels “the most effective way we can” in response to what he called “genocide” perpetrated by Syrian President Bashar al-Assad.

“Saudi Arabia is not a country that interferes in internal affairs of countries,” Saud said in a news conference with visiting Secretary of State John F. Kerry. “But an invaded country,” he said in a reference to Hezbollah and Iranian militia fighters joining Assad’s forces, “where genocide is being perpetrated, is not a normal situation. And I can say with clarity that we will help the Syrian people defend themselves.”

According to the United Nations, nearly 93,000 Syrians have been killed and about 5 million Syrians have fled their homes internally or to neighboring countries during the more than two-year-old conflict.

Saud’s passionate language contrasted with Kerry’s restrained description of both the crisis and the potential remedy.

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 27 Jun 2013 12:06

^^ Saudis basically saying have fun in Geneva, we have a war to fight

@WSJ: Breaking: CIA has begun moving weapons to Jordan and plans to arm groups of vetted Syrian rebels within a month. http://t.co/B7D6mdKN3I

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 27 Jun 2013 12:08

vetting or not, these weapons will end up in the 'wrong hands' soon enough
in the interim more civilians will be butchered
same as it ever was

habal · Post by **habal** » 27 Jun 2013 13:08

Good things are happening on the ground though, as more vermin are being dispatched in Southern Syria. 394 rebels killed and an equal number taken prisoners in Tal Kalakh. Moreover, it is being said that the citizens of the town played a major role in exposing rebel positions to the Syrian Army. Whole stretch from Tal Kalakh to Idlib now are free of rebels.

Meanwhile, Erdogan pops his head out for a moment and senses that the air he was breathing was indeed putrid.

BBC part of conspiracy to destabilize Turkey: Erdogan

Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan has accused the British state-run broadcaster BBC of being part of an international conspiracy to destabilize Turkey.

In an address to parliament in the capital Ankara on Tuesday, Erdogan said that certain foreign powers, international monetary institutions and media outlets are responsible for the anti-government protests that have swept the country since May 31, adding that the unrest was planned to prevent Turkey's rise.

He stated that foreign media outlets, particularly BBC, were lead provocateurs.

The Turkish prime minister also targeted BBC reporter Selin Girit, accusing her of conspiring against the country.

Erdogan stated that the same conspiracy was also hatched against Brazil, saying Turkey and Brazil both had paid off their debts to the International Monetary Fund.

Now you know why the renewed interest in Jordan supply route.

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 27 Jun 2013 13:34

Huge ship with arms for Syrian rebels breaks off Goa coast - http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes ... r-parrikar

PANAJI: A huge ship from Singapore, reportedly carrying arms and ammunition for Syrian rebels, broke up mid-sea about 500 nautical miles off the Goa coast, chief minister Manohar Parrikar told the media on Tuesday afternoon.

habal · Post by **habal** » 27 Jun 2013 13:35

this article sums it up rather well.

“This suggests that Turkey is going to compete with the United States to lead from behind in Syria,” he added.

http://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/Turkey ... ism-317702

Shanmukh · Post by **Shanmukh** » 27 Jun 2013 18:20

shyamd wrote:^^ Saudis basically saying have fun in Geneva, we have a war to fight

Are the Saudis going to intervene directly with their armed forces now? Saudis have been fighting the war for a long time now, and they seem to have accomplished precious little.

Secondly, if they do intervene, can they do it effectively? Saudi logistics and war fighting ability are not exactly stellar.....

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 27 Jun 2013 18:47

saudis preferred combat weapon is a cheque book

Shanmukh · Post by **Shanmukh** » 27 Jun 2013 19:39

Lalmohan wrote:saudis preferred combat weapon is a cheque book

Agreed, Lalmohan-ji. But the cheque has not exactly done wonders for the rebels. Sure, it has made the life of the Syrians miserable, and ruined Syria in most ways, but not much more beyond that.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 27 Jun 2013 19:47

What goes our father? Wait and watch.

We are seeing the intercinine war between Sunnis and Shias disguised as modern intra nation civil war.

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 27 Jun 2013 20:12

The SAA is making good progress. Hope this conflict drags on for a long time.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 27 Jun 2013 22:37

Saudi Arabia arming international terrorists in Syria

The Russian Foreign Ministry has accused Saudi Arabia of financing international terrorists in Syria, a commentary of official representative of the Russian Foreign Ministry Alexander Lukashevich says in connection with the statement of Foreign Minister of Saudi Arabia, Prince Saud al Faisal, who blamed Russia for unlimited military support of mass killings in Syria.

“Of course,we are not going to make excuses to anybody - our principled position on the crisis in Syria is well known. From the very beginning, Russia is making efforts to put a prompt end to any kind of violence and reach a peaceful political settlement in that country. This is the principal difference of our line from the approaches of some forces in the region seeking to implement their own geopolitical ambitions at the expense of the blood and sufferings of the Syrian people”, the document says.

"At the same time, in some capitals, including Riyadh, they, unfortunately, do not hesitate to use the most dubious methods and ties, including funding and arming of terrorists and extremist groups. Such dangerous actions must be stopped, giving the Syrians an opportunity to determine their future in the framework of a negotiation process, as heads of diplomatic missions of Russia and the US called for in Moscow on May 7, this year”, Lukashevich said.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 27 Jun 2013 23:02

I think the war will come to the Gulf Countries. I posted this without reading Nightwatch!

Now here is Nightwatch, 26 June 2013

http://www.kforcegov.com/Services/IS/Ni ... 00143.aspx

Syria: Today Syrian Information Minister al-Zohbi replied to yesterday's rant by the Saudi Foreign Minister, Saud al Faisal. Al-Zohbi said, "The violence in Syria is being caused by Saudi arms, Saudi money and terrorists linked to Saudi Arabia." He also said that Saud al Faisal had blood on his hands.

Syria's Al-Baath newspaper said al Faisal is "crazy" and that "Faisal's statements... prove not only that he has become senile and out of touch with reality, but that the Wahhabi regime is falling apart."

Comment: The Syrian Minister did not blame the West for the uprising, curiously,

In Feedback a Brilliant and perceptive Reader pointed out that the fighting in Syria is about power and regional leadership as much as it is about sectarian dominance. The Baath government in Damascus is the proxy for Iran. Its survival advances Iran's claim to be the regional hegemon and is a major setback to Saudi Arabia's claim.

The Syrian opposition is the proxy for Saudi Arabia which is determined to resist Iranian inroads in the Arab world as much as it resists the spread of Shiite Islam. Saudi Arabia is making a major commitment in Syria to block Iran and stands to lose much clout if the Baathist regime in Damascus lasts.

We on this thread have been saying this for quite sometime.

The Turks attempted to make the leadership power struggle triangular, but the demonstrations seem to have helped undermine the Turkish bid.

Special comment: International news outlets reported the latest casualty numbers estimated by the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights.

According to the news reports, the group now estimates that 100,191 people have died in the last 27 months. That is an incredibly precise number for such a diffuse conflict. It claims that government forces and allies have lost far more men than the Syrian opposition and that civilian casualties account for more than a third of the total deaths.

The group's new estimate represents a mathematical average of 41 civilians died every day and nearly 100 soldiers and militants died daily. The fighting was not that intense in the first year so the daily numbers of civilian and combatant casualties in the last 12 months should be quite a bit higher.

It is difficult to accept the figures at face value for several reasons. If the total is close to accurate, then civilian casualties are too low considering the neighborhood nature of the fighting, featuring air attacks and frequent indirect weapons fire - mortars and artillery. Civilian casualties should be higher than combatant losses in a fight in which no one is using precision weapons or even good intelligence.

On the other hand, if the civilian figure is accurate, the combatant losses are too high, exceeding the likely replacement rate for either side.

A second problem is that the fighting does not involve large formations engaged in battle. It features sweeps, ambushes and meeting engagements. Western reporters seem able to move in and out of areas the rebels more or less control to provide interviews and anecdotal reporting. The Syrian government does not permit access to outside reporters.

The Syrian losses are tragic, but these numbers appear to be part of the propaganda campaign aimed at increasing western support for the opposition.

So logical to see that Syria will extend the war into KSA to calm them down.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 28 Jun 2013 00:59

It will be great news for all the parties involved in this triangular conflict if few millions of young Khotte s get to their desired destination upstairs . Let the issue be not settled till the last young man of West Asia is standing . In the matters of religion and honor , both Shias and Sunnis, must adopt uncompromising position, methods and attitude. The region must be dealt a blow to wealth and health till the peace is established in real sense .Islam must be transformed into the sword of Kuffar for its own liquidation..

RSoami · Post by **RSoami** » 28 Jun 2013 01:39

The sunni loss will really upset the barbarias in Saudi.
They will then get more hostile towards Iran. Probably will try to give it to the shias in Afghanistan post 2014.
Which means they will push Pakistan to become hostile to Iran too.. Pakis either do their bidding and end up surrounded or lose their Saudi friends. Interesting times ahead.
As for Syria, it will need Russian petrodollars to undo the damage of war. Are we seeing a Russia, China and Shias versus West and Sunnis ?!

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 28 Jun 2013 02:29

looks like that for now.

symontk · Post by **symontk** » 28 Jun 2013 07:26

Isnt that a second ship getting lost? Any Iranian sub action?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 28 Jun 2013 07:53

I thought same ship. Maybe locate name and pics.

chanakyaa · Post by **chanakyaa** » 28 Jun 2013 07:55

Huge ship with arms for Syrian rebels breaks off Goa coast - http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes ... r-parrikar

PANAJI: A huge ship from Singapore, reportedly carrying arms and ammunition for Syrian rebels, broke up mid-sea about 500 nautical miles off the Goa coast, chief minister Manohar Parrikar told the media on Tuesday afternoon.

How does Parikar know that shipment was heading to Syrian rebels?

habal · Post by **habal** » 28 Jun 2013 09:56

Austin wrote:All personnel withdrawn from Russian navy base in Syria - diplomat

Russia’s Deputy Foreign Minister says all personnel had been evacuated from the navy resupply base in Tartus, Syria, adding that not a single Russian military serviceman remained in the country.

Mikhail Bogdanov made the announcement in an interview with the Al-Hayat newspaper. “Presently, the Russian Defense Ministry has not a single person stationed in Syria. The base does not have any strategic military importance,” the newspaper quoted the Russian official as saying.

Russian media have verified the statement and the business daily Vedomosti quoted an unnamed source in the Defense Ministry as saying that this was true as all military and civilian personnel had been evacuated from the Tartus base and there were no Russian military instructors working with the Syrian military forces. The source added that the withdrawal was prompted not only by the increased risks caused by the ongoing military conflict, but also by the fact that in the current conditions any incident involving Russian servicemen would likely have some unfavorable reaction from the international community.

Russia currently has a 16-ship flotilla in the Mediterranean Sea but none of them has called at the port of Tartus in recent months and there were no reports of such plans.

Mikhail Bogdanov is also Russian President’s plenipotentiary for Middle East issues and he headed the Russian delegation at this week’s talks between Russia, US and UN on preparations of the major international conference on Syria, dubbed Geneva-2.

that was disinfo.

Russian Defense Ministry denies reports on military withdrawal from Syrian Tartus

http://english.ruvr.ru/news/2013_06_27/ ... rtus-7663/

Mahendra · Post by **Mahendra** » 28 Jun 2013 11:12

chanakyaa wrote:
Huge ship with arms for Syrian rebels breaks off Goa coast - http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes ... r-parrikar

PANAJI: A huge ship from Singapore, reportedly carrying arms and ammunition for Syrian rebels, broke up mid-sea about 500 nautical miles off the Goa coast, chief minister Manohar Parrikar told the media on Tuesday afternoon.
How does Parikar know that shipment was heading to Syrian rebels?

Source

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 28 Jun 2013 11:23

Pranav wrote:Huge ship with arms for Syrian rebels breaks off Goa coast - http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes ... r-parrikar

PANAJI: A huge ship from Singapore, reportedly carrying arms and ammunition for Syrian rebels, broke up mid-sea about 500 nautical miles off the Goa coast, chief minister Manohar Parrikar told the media on Tuesday afternoon.

container ships just dont break up in mid sea. there is no cyclonic storm in region as well. I suspect a couple of heavy torpedoes of unknown origin put it on the bottom.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 28 Jun 2013 11:39

no saar, ships break up all the time - depends on the loading and the direction of travel vis a vis dominant wave direction and amplitude. a heavily laden ship with its middle lifted out of the water will experience massive loads on its keel

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 28 Jun 2013 11:43

the keel is designed to flex....the middle of a CVN in heavy seas flexes by around 3 feet vs the ends allegedly...same would be for cargo or tanker ships. containers are loaded to a plan not just thrown in randomly.
these ships are designed to spend years at sea on high duty cycles before refit.

maybe it was a small tramp steamer of the type LTTE arms ships used to be (pbuh).

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 28 Jun 2013 11:45

you are right, but some container ships are quite heavily laden, and some storms are simply too strong. plus repetitive cyclical loading on the keel can be far more dangerous than single stress load on it

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 28 Jun 2013 17:28

Iran, Russia, China prop up Syria economy, official says

DAMASCUS, Syria, June 28 (UPI) -- Iran, Russia and China are helping Syria lessen the sting of Western sanctions with $500 million a month in oil and vast credit lines, a Syrian official said.

"It's not that bad to have behind you the Russians, the Chinese and Iranians," Qadri Jamil, Syria's deputy prime minister for economic affairs, told The Financial Times."Those three countries are helping us politically, militarily -- and also economically."

Russia and Iran have publicly acknowledged their support for the regime of President Bashar Assad, but China has been less open.

Beijing had no immediate comment on the article.

Ships "under the flag of the Russians" deliver oil and related products to Syria, Jamil said without giving details.

"We are waiting for someone to attack them," he said.

Syria's coasts are still regime-controlled.

Other support from the three countries includes an "unlimited" credit line with Iran for food and oil-product imports, Jamil said.

Syrian Central Bank Governor Adeeb Mayaleh told Syrian state-owned newspaper Tishreen May 27 the credit line from Iran to finance imports and oil and gas purchases was up to $4 billion.

Tehran is itself the subject of damaging Western sanctions, imposed to pressure Iran into ending its suspect nuclear program.

Syria has also set up barter deals with Baghdad, Mayaleh told Tishreen.

Iraq is also supplying Syria with oil and gas needs, a senior Syrian petroleum ministry official told The Wall Street Journal.

Jamil acknowledged to the Times Syria's war-ravaged, sanctions-debilitated economic situation was "complicated and very difficult."

Since the outbreak of the Syrian civil war in March 2011, the economic sanctions have restricted trade with the United States, the European Union, 12 non-EU European countries, Canada, Australia and Japan.

The sanctions and the instability brought on by the war have crumbled Syria's economy, collapsing its main money-earning industries of oil and tourism, economists say.

The country's gross domestic product, which the World Bank estimated stood at almost $60 billion in 2010, shrank nearly 45 percent through 2012, economists and some Syrian regime officials estimate.Since the war started, the Syrian pound has lost 70 percent of its value against the U.S. dollar.

The World Bank estimates inflation topped 50 percent last year, while independent Syrian newspaper Baladna estimated most goods have gone up an average 240 percent since March 2011.

Minimum monthly wages, meanwhile, have largely stayed the same, ranging from the equivalent of $200 to $300 depending on the exchange rate.

Despite the hardships, Damascus is getting around the sanctions somewhat by trading in Russian rubles, Iranian rials and Chinese renminbi, Jamil told the Times.

He said it was a "mistake" for Syria to have traded in Western currencies previously.

"Now we have a straight line between the Syrian pound and those three currencies, and we have got out of the circle of euros and dollars," he said.

Jamil said when a political resolution to the war is achieved, the Assad regime would seek compensation from the world powers that opposed it, just as Germany was required to give reparations to the Allied governments after World War II.

"If England feels like paying something, we don't mind," he said.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 28 Jun 2013 19:00

Nightwatch:

LINK

Syria: Yesterday, the official news agency, al Manar, reported that government forces had captured Tal Kalakh near the northern border of Lebanon, after several days of "fierce clashes." It was a key node for rebel arms smuggling.

Comment: Actually the Syrian army took control of the town over the weekend. Patrick Cockburn visited Tal Kalakh this week to investigate the government claims. He reported his interviews and findings in The Independent today. They are instructive. The rebels and town leaders cut a deal with the Syrian army leaders. The terms of the deal were not disclosed but shops have opened and residents expect no more fighting.

A local Free Syrian Army (FSA) commander said he and his men changed sides because they were disillusioned. A Syrian army officer said the town cut a deal because its leading men wanted to avoid its total destruction as occurred at al Qusayr. The 300-400 FSA men fled to Lebanon or merged back into the population.

Cockburn makes several significant points based on his conversations that are insightful about the nature of the fighting. First is the revelation that many local deals are being brokered or negotiated in many towns to prevent their destruction. Second, the deals are a consequence of the destruction of al Qusayr. Third, the deals are easier when Syrians are talking to Syrians. As a result, the Syrian residents move away from neighborhoods occupied by foreign fighters.

Cockburn judges that the local cease fire agreements are holding and will be critical to ending the violence.

His observations and those of his sources explain the sputtering pace of the fighting and add insight into the government's description of the rebels. The government's negotiating progress falls under or outside the reporting threshold of the mainstream international news agencies. Syrians are more prone to cooperate with the Syrian government than with foreign fighters.

The most important point Cockburn makes is that the simplistic media depiction of Syria as two hostile camps divided by disparity of cult is an inadequate representation of a complex security problem, made much worse by outside interventions.

US-Middle East: Senior US military authorities stated that the administration is considering sending US military personnel to Lebanon and Iraq. If those are approved, they raise to five the number of new US military commitments overseas.

Can we post a link to the Independent article? We are lacking data and get only snippets of droppings.

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 29 Jun 2013 01:52

Now they are considering sending western MANPADS with condition that JSOC or someone with similar credibility is present embedded with rebels when using it. We'll only know if we see Migs falling if this is true or not

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 29 Jun 2013 02:09

qataris can deploy their crotales if they wish

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 29 Jun 2013 02:17

Qatar is busy with transition and going to turn a bit more inward looking. They'll still help out in Syria but the Saudis are the ones calling the shots now. Qataris taking a temporary back seat.

I think what's happened is Saudis asked the French British and American permission to supply stingers and Mistrals. But French I think have said mmm... We wanna know who this is going to and have more oversight so don't send any more yet.

Will be interesting to see what they decide

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 29 Jun 2013 02:20

^^We can trust the Saudi barbarians to make sure the weapons reach the most hardcore islamist lunatics among the Syrian rebels.

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 29 Jun 2013 02:51

Also worth mentioning that June 30th is serious showdown against Morsi and MB taking place. Situation very serious. In the last hour marines based in Europe have been placed on advanced alert to defend/rescue diplomat and citizens. State dept has just ordered out non essential staff.

habal · Post by **habal** » 29 Jun 2013 10:04

head of Al-Nusra front, Al-Jawlani is a CIA agent: says Sheikh Nabil Naiim an al-qaeda trainer

“I personally believe that the leader of the Nusra Army who declared his support for Ayman al-Zawahiri, is a CIA operative in the al-Nusra,” Sheikh Nabil Naiim, who led an al-Qaeda training camp in Egypt, made the revelation in a recent video testimony.

Addressing the al-Qaeda-linked al-Nusra militants, Naiim said, “You are fighting the war in Syria on America’s behalf.”

Naiim, who has renounced violence, also identified al-Qaeda chief Ayman al-Zawahiri as a U.S. double agent.

Abu Mohammed al-Jawlani, the head of the terrorist al-Nusra Front, pledged allegiance to al-Zawahiri on April 10.

Naiim was a high profile militant in Egypt and is believed to have been involved in the assassination of former Egyptian president Anwar al-Sadat in 1981. He was released from prison after the regime of Hosni Mobarak collapsed in February 2011.

http://www.presstv.ir/usdetail/311017.html

Baikul · Post by **Baikul** » 29 Jun 2013 11:05

habal wrote:head of Al-Nusra front, Al-Jawlani is a CIA agent: says Sheikh Nabil Naiim an al-qaeda trainer

“I personally believe that the leader of the Nusra Army who declared his support for Ayman al-Zawahiri, is a CIA operative in the al-Nusra,” Sheikh Nabil Naiim, who led an al-Qaeda training camp in Egypt, made the revelation in a recent video testimony.
................

In other words they are saying it is the Al-Khusra front?

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 29 Jun 2013 17:51

Assad official says #Iran, #Russia & #China sending #Syria $500m every month in their currencies to avoid sanctions http://t.co/LbQaVQxXl6

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 29 Jun 2013 18:06

$500 million every month is impossible that would be $6 Billion per year.....more likely figure is $50 million in cash and food supplies by them , Oil by Iraq and Arms by Iran

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 29 Jun 2013 18:07

Interview with Zbigniew Brzezinski, former White House national-security adviser under Jimmy Carter

Brzezinski on the Syria Crisis

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 29 Jun 2013 18:54

Its a CIA world. Every momeen accuses his opponent or competitor momeen of being a CIA agent. Its time to think something more original. Lets do a one up on the momeen : assume the CIA is itself a front of the AQ? Or they are both fronts of the same organization - just putting up different deniable faces to satisfy different audiences? The bond or common source could be EIC-derivative-post-empire-Brit+ Saudi money +US biz/military elite.

Meanwhile, Syrian "rebels" apparently beheaded - among others - a Christian monk who was trying to protect the nuns in a cloister - and uploaded a video as warning or as a declaration of triumph, or whatever.

Good signs I hope for the lovers of Saudi theologians and gazillions of future investments, among Indians.

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 29 Jun 2013 19:01

So the 30th June showdown was planned and predicted months before? Or the Saudis are supporting which side in this showdown - MB or their opponents - or both? Both would be better, then any prediction would be 50% accurate that Saudis have succeeded. Saudis are against MB, for MB - in almost a Marxian dialectic sense, both "A and not A".

Is the June uprising somehow a part of the larger Saudi plan to both topple MB and put up MB in a brilliant but unknown move to kick Assad out? When is the Najibullaization of Assad planned for? By the current standards, this should be predictable by sources from months before.

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 29 Jun 2013 23:03

FSA capture & seize Lebanese Army soldiers, hummers & weapons inside Syria http://youtu.be/DLdyADwHWbg
Reports suggest FSA released the soldiers, but kept the weapons