India-US Strategic News and Discussion

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 04 Jul 2013 21:36

AmberJi,

By comparing my well thought out analysis based on evidence, with TSP, you seem to think you have some credibility, but mine is not some Paki opinion. Please see the following interview: eminent Indian diplomats like K.C.Singh & G. Parthasarthy are on the same page as me

http://www.timesnow.tv/Debate-India-bac ... 431163.cms

http://www.timesnow.tv/Debate-India-bac ... 431164.cms

If you can give me a rational explanation as to why TSP gets billions, why TSP terror in AfPak is considered the moral equivalent of India building hospitals and bridges and power plants and case as "rivalry", I will take you seriously. Or else you are just like that Batra guy in the above interview: the voice of the master.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 04 Jul 2013 21:57

Cosmo_R wrote:On Panetta, I am inclined to to think he misspoke: ... To revisit http://www.indianexpress.com/news/panet ... us/877581/

Thanks for the link. I have not seen that retraction as it was not given as much prominence in BRF as the original statement. It is a relief unless the original was not a Freudian slip. On the other hand US military might have gamed scenarios where China and India would team up. The probability of a such a team-up is quite low but gaming is an inexpensive vehicle to train the strategists. When at such an important event, I frankly think he he should not have deviated from the prepared text.

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 04 Jul 2013 22:05

Cramji - I normally do not write in this dhaga - certainly not as many times as some others do but since you have addressed me, let me respond.

Sarcasm aside, and very seriously, I am not confusing anything! I am also not impressed by flood of words like "undeniable, xenophobic, racist, colonial behavior" of US offers and in the way its evil design of "world hegemony" and silly conspiracy theory about -- doing every evil thing under the sun just to " keep us Hindus in check".

Trust me, for me, and for virtually 100% of the people in my circle, these silly conspiracy theories and endless gaalis are nothing more than .. well silly conspiracy theories and endless gaalis.

Talking about 1000s of Indians living in US, I am confident that your posts shows close to zero understanding about what majority of American of Indians origin share (or do not share)/ or "subscribe /loathe" the personal lifestyle choices that Americans make. Seriously those comments show as much understanding as those Paki-editors who talk about Hindu life style by endlessly mentioning "dark small temples".

Yes, one can live in US (similarly in India too - another great democracy) and critical of its government..(posts in BRF from many who live in US (or India) show this)..but it is beyond silly to suggest that people who have a choice will like to live in hellish evil country if they are mistreated there.

As to

So, that makes Indians hypocritical and should not live in US? Can one live in US and yet be critical of US abhorrent behavior on many counts? Or is that not allowed?

Honestly, what's the point? or you just wanted to insert "abhorrent" word here? Merely just because one is allowed to be critical does not prove that something is abhorrent.

... And I am sure that includes uber patriots like AmberJi.

And I am sure, comments like that add nothing substantial other than mocking someone...

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 05 Jul 2013 02:13

In all probability this will be my last response regarding this, but I think it is important to note that Cramji has still not retracted or apologized for the post he posted.

Yet he continues...

CRamS wrote:AmberJi,

By comparing my well thought out analysis based on evidence, with TSP, you seem to think you have some credibility, ...

How much credibility you give (or not give) to me is really no issue for me, but there was little thought (well or otherwise) or "evidence: in "analysis" like:

CRamS wrote: <snip>
Then this comical spectacle of the eunuchs in Delhi refusing Snowden's request.

: eminent Indian diplomats like K.C.Singh & G. Parthasarthy are on the same page as me ...

Are you serious???? Tell me where in your reference these guys talk about spectacles and eunuchs?

..... Or else you are just like that Batra guy in the above interview: the voice of the master.

[/quote]

I don't know "this Batra guy".. you don't know me, you don't say what is "voice of the master"... yet you think, if I do not meet your some silly "demand" (of giving some "explanation") .. you give yourself entitlement to throw abuses and insults at me??(from crying out loud, why should one defend (or advocate for) some entity from your accusations (or silly conspiracy theories)????)

You owe an apology.

Cosmo_R · Post by **Cosmo_R** » 05 Jul 2013 02:48

matrimc wrote:
Cosmo_R wrote:On Panetta, I am inclined to to think he misspoke: ... To revisit http://www.indianexpress.com/news/panet ... us/877581/
Thanks for the link. I have not seen that retraction as it was not given as much prominence in BRF as the original statement. It is a relief unless the original was not a Freudian slip. On the other hand US military might have gamed scenarios where China and India would team up. The probability of a such a team-up is quite low but gaming is an inexpensive vehicle to train the strategists. When at such an important event, I frankly think he he should not have deviated from the prepared text.

I have a suspicion that right afterwards, Leon shared your view about deviating from the prepared text

On the subject of gaming, the Pentagon has a teams planning an invasion of just about everyone and it is not new:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... apons.html

I am quite sure they also have plans to invade Washington DC. All of this reminds of the MS Project types who had 15 foot long printed project plans tacked to walls. They also had a strange gleam in their eyes

I think any country should be offended if the Pentagon did not have a plan to invade them.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 05 Jul 2013 03:05

AmberJi,

Come on boss, if you ever meet me, you will know I am jovial easy going guy prone to saying it as I see it, and sometime intemperate that gets me into a lot of trouble. My apologies for offending you, a long standing, respectable BR member.

That said, on a serious note, taking you and me out of the picture, kindly see that video again. Both KC and GP do tear into Salman Kiurshid for apologizing for US snooping on Indian embassies. They may not have used my language.

Cosmo_R · Post by **Cosmo_R** » 05 Jul 2013 07:16

@AmberG. ^^^ Let it go. You are up against someone who claims 'vast knowledge' of the US, the world as we know it and the universe we don't.

He who has has a close relationship with Stephen Cohen and other influencers who hang on his words, calls radio hosts to correct them of their errant ways, and is the caped crusader for all things he deems pro CRS.

It's a fruitless exercise to battle someone endowed with so many super human qualities. CRS is indeed a constant (and he so constantly reinforces ) reminder of our failings and inadequacies.

In short, a superior, preternatural, universally connected being we cross at our own peril.

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 05 Jul 2013 09:26

It is strange indeed how snooping on diplomatic mission can be defended especially by India. Assuming that there are rules against it and must be considered unbecoming of diplomacy how can there be any defense on that ? The worst could have been silence still but defense of it - where does that stand ?

On top of it Indian government allows language experts recruitment too after knowing this.

There is also case of how David Bradley the LeT terrorist was not spotted by USA for which there seems to be no progress , as also that seems to be some kind of long lasting request-response process stuck whereby his handing over could be termed as an achievement by diplomats on both sides while other issues can go under radar.

Shows where relations stand today as an example .

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 05 Jul 2013 09:58

Against Their Will: The Secret History of Medical Experimentation on Children in Cold War America

http://www.amazon.com/Against-Their-Wil ... 0230341713

During the Cold War, an alliance between American scientists, pharmaceutical companies, and the US military pushed the medical establishment into ethically fraught territory. Doctors and scientists at prestigious institutions were pressured to produce medical advances to compete with the perceived threats coming from the Soviet Union. In Against Their Will, authors Allen Hornblum, Judith Newman, and Gregory Dober reveal the little-known history of unethical and dangerous medical experimentation on children in the United States. Through rare interviews and the personal correspondence of renowned medical investigators, they document how children—both normal and those termed "feebleminded"—from infants to teenagers, became human research subjects in terrifying experiments. They were drafted as "volunteers" to test vaccines, doused with ringworm, subjected to electric shock, and given lobotomies. They were also fed radioactive isotopes and exposed to chemical warfare agents. This groundbreaking book shows how institutional superintendents influenced by eugenics often turned these children over to scientific researchers without a second thought. Based on years of archival work and numerous interviews with both scientific researchers and former test subjects, this is a fascinating and disturbing look at the dark underbelly of American medical history.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 05 Jul 2013 10:04

all the japanese 'doctors' carrying out horrific experiments on chinese POWs in manchuria were granted immunity, US citizenship and jobs in the above medical system in exchange for their data. similar such creatures in germany like josef mengele lead a quiet retired life in south america and were never caught. my theory is these people also purchased their freedom in exchange for medical data.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 05 Jul 2013 10:14

^+1. This post has some evidence on how some Nazis were protected by the Americans.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 05 Jul 2013 10:17

Singha ji, if what you say is true, it would have been a tough call for who ever made the decision - is it better to get data that might save an untold number of innocents in exchange for pardoning a dastardly criminal? The lives lost are lost in any case. This way at least they have not lost their lives in vain.

Murugan · Post by **Murugan** » 05 Jul 2013 11:43

Yoga is Secular - American Court

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/new ... 906862.cms

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 05 Jul 2013 17:55

AmberJi, CosmoJi,

Please read this article by KC Singh

http://www.rediff.com/news/column/why-i ... 130705.htm

Secretary of State John Kerry, during his India visit, when asked about the cyber snooping explained during a joint press conference on June 24 with his Indian counterpart Salman Khurshid watching protectively, that the PRISM program was only about computer study of patterns rather than the content of communications.

But that is not what the two subsequent stories indicated. Khurshid, solicitous during the Kerry visit to the point of correcting a journalist who inquired if he had raised the matter during the talks, termed the question as wrongly framed. He said it was discussed, without explaining how that happened if he did not raise it.

This attitude verging on sycophancy persisted into Khurshid’s travel abroad for the ASEAN foreign ministers meeting. When quizzed in Brunei he kept up his ill-informed chatter, appearing to defend US actions.

What I said about our rulers like SK in Delhi was not very far off.

Garooda · Post by **Garooda** » 05 Jul 2013 22:34

CRamS wrote:AmberJi,

Talking about 1000s of Indians living in US, I can bet you, majority of Indians do not share or subscribe or even loathe the personal lifestyle choices that Americans make. So, that makes Indians hypocritical and should not live in US? Can one live in US and yet be critical of US abhorrent behavior on many counts? Or is that not allowed?

Now you are mixing social and cultural issues with political ones. BTW there is a significant percent of non-desis in the US who are critical of the US foreign policies and many of them are armed service members in addition to ordinary civilians. And Yes, it is allowed

Its like asking the upper caste elites on how they feel about GOI and the suppression of dalits by the netaas using custom designed policies. I'm sure its allowed.

DarshanJi, One small correction. I don't believe US is snooping its "own citizens". Please note the quotes. It only snoops on "its own citizens" who can be passed off as "not its own". And I am sure that includes uber patriots like AmberJi.

And how much data is collected on the tiny percentage of Indians? You mean to claim that all the money and technology involved (not to mention desi technicians/IEEE engineers working with/for NSA) is/was used only for 'not its own' ? Lets be real. Telephone companies 'backup' their systems and have been since 50's. The entire thing is politicized BS which I agree, chewed and redigressed all thanks to the media and internet. How do you think CBI conducts the raids and gathers evidence? Dont you think they might have a need for some Decision or Intelligence system(s) based upon gathered data? Its nothing more than a tool developed and used according to the changing times, technology and society as more and more crimes are committed by exploiting readily available technologies. Moreoever its the Metadata that is analysed, used for profiling/classification although they have the ability to drill down to the more granular data. I have no issues being monitored directly/indirectly as there is nothing to hide. People use the word PRIVACY a lot but what exactly is private besides your life within the confinement of your home? Banks, IRS, Schools and pretty much every private/government entity requests the information for any and all purposes these days. If not NSA, someone else has the same information which if not used for 'profiling/classification' is more often used for 'profiling and marketing' for the goods and services that the private sector provides

Spam emails, annoying popups, ads based on search history, one too many tv commercials anyone?

If not NSA, some DBA/Sysadmin type at the cellular service provider data center is laughing at the SMSs

Either way not much privacy exists in reality.

Desi_Snooping_Program_Announcement_CMS

Image from NSA website

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 05 Jul 2013 22:49

One problem I foresee is the following and is a worry in a capitalist system US has.

Is there any possibility that some of the data can be used to manipulate markets? Used by competitors to gain unfair advantage? Insider trading? how is this information disseminated? Can it be used to settle some personal scores by private citizens? Can it be used for political purposes? Is the access on a needtoknow basis?

Obviously several different overlapping sets of Entities/people are worried. It is delicate balance among right to privacy, security, and foreign policy. Yes I would like to go about my life not fearing that some terrorist is going to blow self up in the middle of a July 4th celebration (for example) but at the same the next day when I have deal to make with my suppliers or negotiate rates/prices with companies to whom I am supplying I also need to be sure that the other party does not have some advance information as to who are the others I am also talking to.

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 05 Jul 2013 23:03

Is snooping by Indian intel same as snooping by external agencies?

Is snooping on diplomatic premises fine as usual and does not need mention of deplomacy protocols ?

About patterns and matadata : this is purely issue with system and can be manipulated eg colors of terror chatter that is hiding substance as well as creates false impression which is recognized as pattern.

The propaganda about colors of terror is wholly false and deceiving at the same time and still as real and formal with ministers uttering in official meetings.

There is still no clarity how India is 5th largest target of snooping - doesn't add up. Nor how language experts are allowed to be recruited may be since external snooping is equal equal to internal snooping only.

So what happens if results of pattern matching of external snooping is not fixating about results of pattern matching of internal one ? Which is moresecular and which is less acceptable ?

Garooda · Post by **Garooda** » 05 Jul 2013 23:07

matrimc wrote:One problem I foresee is the following and is a worry in a capitalist system US has. Is there any possibility that some of the data can be used to manipulate markets? Used by competitors to gain unfair advantage? Insider trading? how is this information disseminated? Can it be used to settle some personal scores by private citizens? Can it be used for political purposes? Is the access on a needtoknow basis? Obviously several different overlapping sets of Entities/people are worried. It is delicate balance among right to privacy, security, and foreign policy.

Generally there is a classification and compartmentalization of information depending on the clearance level of the agency staff/contractors. I am not sure how much a private citizen can even access the information collected by NSA

(unless he/she is a prominent hacker). All other scenarios in your statement are plausible and possible IMO if needed be.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 06 Jul 2013 01:56

Female workers face rape, harassment in US agriculture industry

Cosmo_R · Post by **Cosmo_R** » 06 Jul 2013 02:45

About the Salman Khurshid/John Kerry sycophancy issue. Full disclosure: I absolutely detest SK—he of the 'khoon' stuff wrt to Kejriwal. The man does not belong in the Cabinet.

What I find curious is in the map (don't have link) that showed India being more intensely monitored by the NSA than PRC. This makes little sense unless GoI was part of the bargain which could explain why SK and others are rushing to defend the US. Face it, if GoI got too publicly aggressive, the US could 'leak' the fact that GoI was in on it.

The desi snooping program

http://techcentral.my/news/story.aspx?f ... ec=it_news

I think the key player in that is the Robin sitting on the top of the pole.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 06 Jul 2013 03:17

Latest issue of the WEEK mag has a major feature on a proposed US-Maldives defence deal which will allow unrestricted use of the entire Maldives by US naval and other forces, with just a 30 min. timeframe for US carrier aircraft to attack India.The mag says that the US has been planning the encirclement of India more surreptitiouslyvthan China.Indian def. experts are extremely concerned by this secret deal which former pres. Gayoom has allegedly leaked.Though the US has support agreements with other nations, the scope of this deal is tantamount to the entire Maldives becoming a US mil. base.Th
.e recent political games in the Maldives where the pro-Indian pres was ousted is now revealed to be the handiwork of the US with suspected ISI support.

The US has for decades been destabilising India via Pak and is worried about our nuclear and missile proeess.We must Never forget that India was conquered by the British via S.India thanks to the Royal Navy.

krishna_krishna · Post by **krishna_krishna** » 06 Jul 2013 05:10

^^^ connect the dots with a old news of parking ac unit in BD and what is being done in the afg . I spoke to some people in massa land who were returning from their tour de france that they will for sure have presence there. That means massa is putting its own ring more tight than chini. They don't want to be complacent with desh since the chini will surely overtake them.

Now if I connect one more dot remember the pictures/videos of prab. family members came suddenly out of nowhere , I believe that was to force SL too. Massa has long been trying to seduce them with different tricks.

Rony · Post by **Rony** » 06 Jul 2013 05:40

Christian Conservative Walter Russell Mead says America will have to respond to "persecution" of Christians in Syria and India

He cites impeccably neutral source like "Christianity today" to back up his claims . With respect to India, he says

Christianity Today reports that Hindu extremists broke into a Christian prayer meeting in India and beat up the attendees with clubs and iron rods. The attackers accused the pastors of using force and coercion to convert Indians to Christianity, an accusation the pastors vigorously deny.

India is a different story. For 1,000 years, Indian Hindus have felt pressure from Islam, and there are hundreds of millions of Muslims today in lands that were once largely Hindu. Christianity has an even longer presence in India, but during the British Raj there were fears that British missionaries used their political connections with the country’s rulers to gain converts in dubious ways. The appeal of both Christianity and Islam in India is often to lower castes and to tribal peoples; Hindus often believe (with greater or less reason in particular cases) that missionaries offering inducements (food, health care, education) to converts are essentially forcing helpless people to change their religion in order to live. Much of India was under Islamic rule before the British came; Hindus have long memories and they are determined to hold on to their faith and their values. Pakistani-supported Islamic terrorism has deepened a sense of Hinduism under siege.

For many, Hindu religion and Indian national identity go together; Gandhi wanted a secular Indian state, but not all Hindus then or since agreed with him. The BJP, one of India’s two leading political parties, is rooted in India’s nationalist and religious right; while some BJP leaders and members are mostly interested in economic reform and modernization, others are linked, sometimes closely, to radical Hindu-nationalist groups.

The Hindu right has a violent side and these are not the first such attacks. Anti-Christian violence reached a fever pitch in 2008 in Orissa, and only slowed down after the BJP lost local elections. India’s next government could be a BJP-led one, and some of the political allies of the religious extremists will have some significant influence. Even if the mainstream media continues to downplay stories of Christian persecution (which it probably will), religious media in the US is widely read and follows this story much more closely. Our foreign policy cannot be insulated from the political consequences of stories like this one, and if the pace of attacks increase, India’s friends in Congress and the State Department will have a harder time keeping relations on track.

And he warps up his pseudo-analysis with a warning to India.

India is an even more complicated and diverse country than the United States, and Indian society is passing through some revolutionary changes. Both Indian and US governments will have to think carefully about how religious tensions inside India can be kept from complicating a bilateral relationship of the greatest importance to both.

When are we going to raise the discrimination of Blacks, Native Americans and Latinos forcefully with US ? Only in my dreams i guess !

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 06 Jul 2013 05:48

Garooda ji

I don't have much to say on your point of Top Security etc.

But some thoughts/observations that might be of some relevance follow.

Private citizens need not get hold of the information. But her small business -even if it is more efficient and a better business - might be at the receiving end. Let us say the wheeling and dealing is taking place in some bar where double martinis are flowing freely and/or at a country club at the 19th hole and/or a church/temple/mosque fund raising dinner based on informal leaks of sensitive information then the private citizen would not even know why she has to file for bankruptcy. And it is well documented that 95% of the businesses in US are small < 10 employee companies.

How about a small IT/VIty consulting company who specialize in some niche area and managing costs using a mix of on-site/off-site arrangement all without flouting laws of all the places they are operating out of but give good value to the customers due to efficiency? Companies in several business areas might be run over by a state backed companies based in a country behind "x" curtain. Their initial deal is for a foot in the door to follow a dump and pump strategy . Whole niche areas and professions might be disappear overnight. I am not arguing against technological advances that might put the proverbial horsewhip makers out of business but a country that uses (almost) bonded labor who cannot move around in their own country without papers is something that I cannot countenance.

This is insidious and should be questioned and make no mistake about it - In open societies like India and US these policies will be questioned.

IMHO what we are arguing about is how politely we go about doing the questioning of our respective governments and what are the means by which we make them listen to the voices of concern. As an American citizen I cannot question Indian government, but I would be remiss in my duty to question US govt. if they are jeopardizing relations with an important ally whose interest is an emotional issue for people who originated from there.

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 07 Jul 2013 04:17

Boeing 777 crashes at San Francisco International Airport

Various news sources, for example : http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/07/06/bo ... z2YJHNxzNr

Amazingly most of the passengers (about 190) walked out and relatively safe (or not serious injuries) (looking at the plane it really seem unbelievable) - Some are in hospitals and ll about 50-60 are unaccounted for. according to rough reports...
Added later: - 2 dead and only 1 unaccounted for...

Garooda · Post by **Garooda** » 09 Jul 2013 20:54

matrimc wrote:Garooda ji

Private citizens need not get hold of the information. But her small business -even if it is more efficient and a better business - might be at the receiving end. Let us say the wheeling and dealing is taking place in some bar where double martinis are flowing freely and/or at a country club at the 19th hole and/or a church/temple/mosque fund raising dinner based on informal leaks of sensitive information then the private citizen would not even know why she has to file for bankruptcy. And it is well documented that 95% of the businesses in US are small < 10 employee companies.

Chances are, Yes. I agree. It can occur even in the private sector as someone else has the partial information if not complete that is used/stolen/purchased with backdoor deals. How easy it is to crack open a loyal employee in the private sector?

Information can be used and exploited to take anyone out of business and or financial/market advantage. From what I understood, I believe you're referring to Government or Large corporate Takeover of mom & pop or small businesses (Be it IT or Groceries). However I would like to assume at this point that their focus might be on the big fishes and not necessarily small businesses as I'm sure you're very well aware of the staggering cost of labor/talent vs the benefit if the agencies start to exploit such information. I would really be interested in the lobbyists and political fund contributors

I mean why would they spend few million dollars to take someone out who might be grossing about a million or less? Just a thought. Though if we consider the economic downturn, chances are things going backwards away from privatization upto certain extent and certain industries.

How about a small IT/VIty consulting company who specialize in some niche area and managing costs using a mix of on-site/off-site arrangement all without flouting laws of all the places they are operating out of but give good value to the customers due to efficiency? Companies in several business areas might be run over by a state backed companies based in a country behind "x" curtain. Their initial deal is for a foot in the door to follow a dump and pump strategy . Whole niche areas and professions might be disappear overnight. I am not arguing against technological advances that might put the proverbial horsewhip makers out of business but a country that uses (almost) bonded labor who cannot move around in their own country without papers is something that I cannot countenance.

It is a very valid thought. Yes there are chances of throwing a 'bone' to someone from country 'x' as part of the deal for their agenda(s). But IMO, this is where the technological advances and knowledge (KPO) is the key and advantage as you're very well aware the costs associated with training staff (government or private sector) to keep up with the dynamic aspects of the industry. Given the amount of investment by the various sectors in the IT division, I doubt that this will/might happen anytime soon as one still requires talent to sustain (which is generally not produced in sufficient numbers through colleges in US) Given the current trend, I'm not sure if the voters are too happy about government poking around in every aspect of the industry or would let it go that far in the future. Scary thought IMO.

This is insidious and should be questioned and make no mistake about it - In open societies like India and US these policies will be questioned.

IMHO what we are arguing about is how politely we go about doing the questioning of our respective governments and what are the means by which we make them listen to the voices of concern. As an American citizen I cannot question Indian government, but I would be remiss in my duty to question US govt. if they are jeopardizing relations with an important ally whose interest is an emotional issue for people who originated from there.

True. I doubt any politeness will work. Petitions are meaningless and waste of time IMO. Elections are rigged and so are most of the implemented policies sold to the highest bidder before the elections. Just look at the many healthcare reforms and small businesses. Honest media outlets are shutout immediately, Citizens banding to make a difference? Not sure as life is too busy for most of us and majority are socially engineered (thanks to MSM and its ties to the parties). Letters to representatives only gets us lip service. Its something we've seen it replay over and over in both India and US. Current POTUS is done with his term and with the current party in India and its puppet masterni, it would be of no use even in India. So take a pick

It reminded me of a quote. "When a government is dependent upon bankers for money, they and not the leaders of the government control the situation, since the hand that gives is above the hand that takes. Money has no motherland; financiers are without patriotism and without decency; their sole object is gain." Napoleon Bonaparte

Cosmo_R · Post by **Cosmo_R** » 10 Jul 2013 06:56

"Two very chastened Indian cabinet ministers arrived in Washington on Tuesday, looking for American investment and patronage to revive an Indian economy that has hit the skids and a rupee that is being decimated.

The swagger and self-importance that characterized Indian economic engagements with American business over the past few years has evaporated rapidly as finance minister P Chidambaram and commerce and industries minister Anand Sharma engage with US interlocutors over the next few days. In its place, there is despair at the nose-diving rupee and the drying up of foreign investment, leaving the Indian projection of becoming an economic powerhouse distinctly wobbly."

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/busi ... 997148.cms

For those who remember, many of us (OK me and 2 others) have been stressing the importance of FDI in anything investors want to invest in India. Yes to FDI by Walmart, Tesco, Nuclear Power, Defence etc. Else Rupee is going to be~100/USD and an economy on the skids like in 1991.

Don't be fooled by the FX reserves. What counts is Net Foreign Assets (FX-Short Term liabilities).

The Chinese are laughing up their sleeves.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 10 Jul 2013 07:40

The rupee is drowning because it has been welded to the hip with the international (read US) economic crony-capitalist mantra that believes in a neo-imperialistic theft of wealth from the "turd world" to fatten the greed of the developed.The rupee's denouement has been principally due to the combined efforts of three perversely pro-US servile flunkeys,namely Dr.Singh of snake-oil fame,his Sancho Panza,Money-talk Singh ,and Wal-Mart's Indian champion ,PC. Presiding over this triumvirate of archangels has been that of the Mother-Goddess,Soniaji-she who can do no wrong.She is blameless,whiter than snow,the dispenser of all favours,creator of wealth (for the chosen few) and long may her tribe increase. We are blessed to have had the sacrifice of her illustrious family's forbears and await with eager anticipation the "second-coming" of India's saviour in the form of the crown prince,who strangely seems reluctant to take up the cup and drink deep of its bitterness of the state of India 60+ years after "home rule". Perhaps he knows best the repercussions of drinking from a poisoned chalice !

But we know only too well who has poisoned the chalice of nectar that the Gods gave to India,the amrit that is every Indian's birthright.Our beloved rulers,especially the current lot who have held sway for the last decade.If we are to understand where we are and how far we have fallen,we need only to look at the rupee,the prices of vegetables,etc.,caused by the dereliction of their sacred duty by a bunch of rogues and rascals masquerading as patriots.

As for our great strategic relationship with the US,the Abbotobad revelations in the Ind.Exp. quote former ISI chief Ahmad Shuja Pasha as saying that the Haqqani group was a creation of the ISI and CIA,who were also blessed and invited by former pres. Reagan to the White House! Our gallant boot-lickers and a*se wipers like Salman-the-Cursed will still manage to put a spin on that!

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 11 Jul 2013 07:02

matrimc wrote:Singha ji, if what you say is true, it would have been a tough call for who ever made the decision - is it better to get data that might save an untold number of innocents in exchange for pardoning a dastardly criminal? The lives lost are lost in any case. This way at least they have not lost their lives in vain.

If I said this I would be a saffron terrorist who takes his marching orders from the SS-inspired RSS, whose Guruji clearly spoke of his fondness for the former. so what are you? thought experiment onlee. no need to get offended.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 11 Jul 2013 07:39

Moved ... http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 3#p1481903

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 12 Jul 2013 13:56

Microsoft,pimp for the NSA's PRISM intel snoopin'.

How Microsoft handed the NSA access to encrypted messages

• Secret files show scale of Silicon Valley co-operation on Prism
• Outlook.com encryption unlocked even before official launch
• Skype worked to enable Prism collection of video calls
• Company says it is legally compelled to comply

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/ju ... -user-data

• Material collected through Prism is routinely shared with the FBI and CIA, with one NSA document describing the program as a "team sport".

The latest NSA revelations further expose the tensions between Silicon Valley and the Obama administration. All the major tech firms are lobbying the government to allow them to disclose more fully the extent and nature of their co-operation with the NSA to meet their customers' privacy concerns. Privately, tech executives are at pains to distance themselves from claims of collaboration and teamwork given by the NSA documents, and insist the process is driven by legal compulsion.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 15 Jul 2013 04:46

Embassies to get airport benefits on reciprocal basis only

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 15 Jul 2013 09:25

This change in rules is a welcome development. Good move on the part of GoI. Interesting to note complainers and their motivation.

Johann · Post by **Johann** » 15 Jul 2013 18:12

CRS,

Race is both your primary and default analytic prism. The mistake you seem to be making is assuming that is everyone else's as well.

You are in fact so unable to conceive of any other way of thinking that entire crises must be dismissed as 'charades' and the responses as 'codes.'

The Obama administration's number one concern besides preventing terrorist attacks on the US and cyber-defence is ending leaks from government, especially from the national security side. You should look up the 'Insider Threat Programme.'

Who do you think that targets? The Bradley Mannings and Edward Snowdens - both of whom were white American males upset by what they saw as the violation of American citizen's rights and principles.

You're too young to remember America during the Cold War when the FBI closely investigated anyone who showed the slightest trace of pro-communist feeling, or organised against the state. Being white, or Christian, or Anglo-Saxon or whatever was no protection. I'd suggest reading up the Alger Hiss case.

I'm sure you are willing to dismiss FBI, DHS and police surveillance of the Occupy Movement on behalf of Wall St. as part of the Domestic Security Alliance Council.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... own-occupy

What is at stake is the right to dissent and protest without being treated as national security threats - in other words making sure public order is not deliberately confused by public safety and public interest by those with greater power. It may be unimportant to you, but it is important to millions of Americans of all colours and economic statuses.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 19 Jul 2013 01:54

NSA Menon to SK Shinde
US-UK stingy when sharing sensitive information

Points out invocation of privacy rights when asked to give details of social media accounts used to rouse the rogues against NE Indians.

If this is the case why did Salman Khurshi* jump to defend the US even more then their own envoys?
Something to wonder about.

Maybe his robbing NGO is used to keep him as HMV?

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 19 Jul 2013 05:49

Biden to deliver US foreign policy speech on India's role in Asia-Pacific - Business Line

Is the US goading India into more action, or is the US articulating India's position which India itself is unwilling to do because of 'diplomatic ramifications', or is the US determining the trajectory of Indian foreign policies ?

US Vice-President Joe Biden will deliver a US foreign policy speech today reflecting India’s growing role in the Asia-Pacific region before leaving for his maiden visit to India.

“The Vice-President will focus on the United States’ enduring commitment to the rebalance towards Asia, India’s growing role in the Asia-Pacific region, and the critical importance of deepening US trade relationships and building constituencies for shared economic values,” said the White House.

Pranay · Post by **Pranay** » 20 Jul 2013 01:08

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3LFTlDke_A

Bruce Reidel - Avoiding Armageddon: America, India and Pakistan to the Brink and Back ... (Not sure if it has been posted before)

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 20 Jul 2013 19:53

If you had listened to Stephen Cohen on telly,where he said that the US was "primarily" responsible for letting US-Russian relations go downhill by wanting it to accept "junior partnership" status,and giving nothing in return for adjustments in its foreign policy in certain global areas,you can easily read India,as the other state in Q. The US continues to arm and support Pak and the ISI regardless of its pursuit of terror as a weapon of state against India.expecting India to compromise with Pak on every front so that it can retreat from Afghanistan with some "dignity"! Imagine if it was India that had sheltered Osama for 9 years,what sanctions and actions against india would've been taken.Headley is still denied to us because,this double agent can expose the cosy relationship between the CIA and ISI working together against India.

Uniformed US top brass say that Indo-US military relations will be "big time" ,especially those in the maritime dimension between both navies,but gloss over the limits of the nature of joint exercises which India will allow.With the US surreptitiously planning to "absorb" the entire Maldives into a military base for itself,with enormous security implications for India,the upcoming visit of the Veep will be a very interesting one,as the last days of the snake-oil regime will also see a flurry of 11th hour military deals before the elections.

Kashi · Post by **Kashi** » 21 Jul 2013 18:12

'Bash mobs' sweep through Southern California

Interesting stuff happening over there, especially the comments section.

At the risk of getting ahead of myself, it's not too hard to see such behaviour closely reflected in 'bash mobs' we witnessed recently- Mumbai, Lucknow, Chennai, Kolkata, Delhi.

More interestingly, some comments claim that these events are more widespread in "Blue" states than in "Red" ones (or states which permit CNC if you will).

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 23 Jul 2013 01:11

As the Biden visit goes underway, Maximum Accomodationist, CRM writes:

Finish what you started!

And with these type of strategists at hand what more does India need?

US Vice President Biden's visit could be an occasion for the political leadership in Delhi and Washington to emphasise the importance of completing the ambitious agenda unveiled in 2005

It is not often that American vice presidents show up in India. In any case, vice presidential visits abroad don't get too much attention either in the United States, or the host country. But there are good reasons to take US Vice President Joe Biden's visit this week to Delhi and Mumbai, seriously. US vice presidents are no longer inconsequential in the making of American domestic and foreign policies. Biden's two predecessors, Dick Cheney and Al Gore, had considerable influence in defining the national agenda during the George W. Bush and Bill Clinton administrations respectively.

Biden enjoys the full confidence of President Barack Obama, who has cut much political space for his vice president. Biden played a key role in contributing to Obama's victory in both the presidential campaigns. Folksy and combative, Biden was a valuable foil to Obama, who tends to be professorial and finds it difficult to connect with ordinary people. Biden's vast international experience has often come in handy for Obama in coping with the major foreign policy challenges that he inherited from Bush in Iraq and Afghanistan. Biden's pragmatism has helped cut through the arguments of the ideologues on the left and right, who tend to dominate the foreign policy discourse in Washington.

One hopes Biden will bring the same common sense to bear upon India-US relations, widely perceived to be in a trough. Biden was among the key people in Washington who helped transform the India-US relationship over the last decade. The Democratic Party's foreign policy establishment reacted vehemently against the historic civil nuclear initiative unveiled by former President Bush and Prime Minister Manmohan Singh eight years ago this month. Hillary Clinton, then in the race for the presidency, chose to stay quiet. Obama, a freshman senator who was finding a niche for himself, was critical of the deal and demanded changes. In contrast, Biden eagerly embraced the civil nuclear initiative, helped reduce the suspicions among the Democrats and ensured its passage in the US Congress twice over. Few political leaders in the Democratic Party can claim ownership of the civil nuclear initiative in the manner that Biden can. The vice president, however, comes to India at a time when there is a sense of drift in India-US relations. His principal task would be to find ways to impart new momentum to them.

{So his adivce is hand over India to visitor and bend over}

Although the India-US engagement has expanded and deepened beyond anyone's imagination over the last decade, there is no hiding the disappointments on both sides. Some would say India and the US are simply moving from an extended honeymoon to the challenges of making a marriage work. The romance has inevitably yielded to a tiresome routine. Staying with the metaphor of marriage, Biden and his Indian interlocutors must focus on five guidelines to make the relationship robust and enduring.

[I}{ I detest the use of such metaphors which are a hold over from the invaders and cast a feminine persoan on India and justify the loot by foreigners. How objective is this expert when his ORF is funded and has deep links to US think tanks like Brookings which is Democratic party think tank?}[/i]

First, renew the political vows. Former President Bush and then Prime Minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee were not just animated by a narrow strategic calculus when they chose to define a new direction for bilateral relations. They were moved by a strong conviction that after five wasted decades, Washington and Delhi could and should be natural partners. The initial vision that drove the partnership has been lost with bureaucracies on both sides slowing the momentum. All partnerships require mutual faith, and restoring it should be at the top of the agenda in the conversations between Biden and the Indian leadership.

{Above is the biggest delusion. They are no natural partners. They can be partners with leadership recognizing it as such. There is no bigger delusion than above statement . US has a stated policy to prevent any regional hegemon from developing. And they think India to be one such. Hence they will not partner.}

Second, remember the shared long-term interests. Delhi and Washington need each other a lot more today than a decade ago, whether it is in accelerating economic growth or promoting national security. America's unipolar moment has passed, and the expectations about India's rapid economic growth have dimmed. Delhi and Washington help themselves by deepening the partnership with the other.

{i}{Sherlcok when the unipolar momnet has psseed then why the rush? And it takes two hands to clap or to use an Americanism "Two to Tango". When there is no desire on US part why submit yourself? And it is US that is promoting Indian national insecurity by propping up TSP.}[/i]

Third, finish what you started. The time has come for the political leadership in both capitals to emphasise the importance of completing the ambitious agenda unveiled in 2005. Delhi and Washington must quickly iron out the remaining wrinkles in the implementation of the civil nuclear initiative, facilitate commercial agreements between American vendors and Indian operators, and intensify the effort to complete India's integration into the global order. On the defence front, Washington must keep its word on liberalising technology transfer. In turn, Delhi must make it easier for US defence and high technology companies to invest in India.

{Nice end statement!!!! Betrays the agenda.}

Fourth, don't be too transactional. All good relationships are based on give and take. But they can't be sustained on the basis of constant accounting of what has been delivered by the other side. Exaggerated notions of what one or the other owes, leads to recrimination, bad blood and separation. Delhi and Washington can't allow the India-US partnership to become a nickel and dime operation, with senior figures in both capitals obsessing about the trivia and forgetting the big picture.

{Well a balance sheet is useful in getting a reality check. That is how US operates. Why demand India to give that up for maya?}

Five, intensify strategic cooperation in Asia. During the Cold War, the central problem for India and the US was their conflicting approaches towards Asia. The improvement of the bilateral relationship in the last few years has been rooted in greater convergence of their interests in Asia.

{i]{Ok strategic expert what are the convergences between US and India? So far not a thing. Checking piracy in Indian Ocean?Make Indian Navy the 8th fleet? Indian Army an expeditionary force of US?}[/i]

As Delhi and Washington try to develop separate, special relationships with Beijing, there is a danger of misreading each other's intentions. Both India and the US want a secure Afghanistan and moderate Pakistan, but their approaches are not always in sync. An honest conversation between Biden and the Indian leaders on the changing regional balance is critical at this juncture to prevent misperceptions from derailing India-US security cooperation in Asia.

{Biggest understatement of the year! A moderate Pakistan is an oxymoron. There is no such thing. A moderate Pakjab can happen.}

The writer is a distinguished fellow at the Observer Research Foundation, Delhi and a contributing editor for 'The Indian Express'