Perspectives on the global economic meltdown- (Nov 28 2010)

panduranghari · Post by **panduranghari** » 12 Jul 2013 14:33

Theo_Fidel wrote:The dollar is still trade-able for gold.

So is Zimbabwe dollar.

And so was German Mark.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 12 Jul 2013 19:30

USA==Zimbabwe

What next.....

Christopher Sidor · Post by **Christopher Sidor** » 12 Jul 2013 20:07

KrishnaK wrote:Acharya,
The takleef is that these Indians should put their money to better use by investing it in infrastructure. At least the government should make it a viable option.

Not going to happen. Our rulers do not think twice before debasing their currency. Now compare this with what happens in the north atlantic countries. They have managed to keep some semblance of value in their currency.

Look at our case. In 1991, our glorious PM initiated the reforms. A single dollar was worth some 17-18 rupees then. By the time the reign of our glorious PM ends in 2104, some 20-25 years later, our currency has depreciated to Rupees 60 to a dollar. This is a decline of more than 3 times. Now if one had Rs 100 in 1991 then one would have got some 5-6 dollars and today one would not even get 2 dollars for the same Rs 100. See the erosion in value. And this happened even though every body claimed that Fed was debasing the dollar.
That is why Indians invest in Gold. That is why Indians invest in property. And that is why nobody is willing to put money into infra bonds unless tax saving is a part of package.

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 12 Jul 2013 21:23

How is all this related to global financial crisis?

TSJones · Post by **TSJones** » 12 Jul 2013 21:50

^^^^Because some posters are sure of the doom of the US dollar and the inevitability of gold and they really, really want the US government to guarantee the price of gold.

I want China to guarantee the price of gold with their currency. I think that would be nice if they tried.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 12 Jul 2013 21:59

Gold price jumps to near 3-week high

REUTERS
Friday 12 July 2013
Last Update 12 July 2013 12:22 am
LONDON: Gold jumped to a near three-week high as the dollar tumbled after the US Federal Reserve signaled it would continue to pursue monetary stimulus, given tame inflation and a fragile labor market.
Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke said on Wednesday that a highly accommodative policy was needed for the foreseeable future, surprising investors after his comments on June 19 that the economy was expanding strongly enough for the Fed to end the stimulus measures by mid-2014.
The tapering would support a rise in interest rates and bolster the dollar, making gold less attractive.
“I think that a degree of caution by the Fed is now likely to replace the rather optimistic picture that was implied in May and June, as the economic recovery is not quite clear cut as previously thought,” Mitsubishi analyst Jonathan Butler said.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 12 Jul 2013 23:07

Christopher Sidor wrote: Look at our case. In 1991, our glorious PM initiated the reforms. A single dollar was worth some 17-18 rupees then. By the time the reign of our glorious PM ends in 2104, some 20-25 years later, our currency has depreciated to Rupees 60 to a dollar. This is a decline of more than 3 times. Now if one had Rs 100 in 1991 then one would have got some 5-6 dollars and today one would not even get 2 dollars for the same Rs 100. See the erosion in value. And this happened even though every body claimed that Fed was debasing the dollar.
That is why Indians invest in Gold. That is why Indians invest in property. And that is why nobody is willing to put money into infra bonds unless tax saving is a part of package.

Yes it’s a vicious cycle.

But the peg to the dollar to 1991 is exactly what the gold bugs want right.
See where it got India. Exactly no where…
The RS 17 rate was artificial. The real exchange rate was closer to Rs 36-Rs40 which is where it stayed for a looong time. So that only makes it a 50% decline. Almost all of it in the last year mostly due to FII pull back to US treasuries. The people really getting screwed are the hot money folks.

Also you never ever keep cash lying around in India, Everyone puts their money in post office savings account, including MMS IIRC. RS 100 in post office account in 1991 will be worth about Rs 800 today.

It is not just Indians who invest in property, everyone does it. It is good for the economy, releasing potential and investment and jobs. Property and gold are not the same thing. Property brings revenue, gold is mostly for show off, dowry and portability(read black money).

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 13 Jul 2013 00:06

Property in India are also used for dowry and also majorly to make black money white , infact its far worse then gold as far as making illegal money legal via property route.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 13 Jul 2013 00:23

But that is not the comparison you were making. You said property and gold were a hedge against inflation.
I pointed out property is not a hedge. It generates revenue and investment.
Even gold is not used like a classical hedge in India.
Now I don’t know what your point is….

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 13 Jul 2013 00:29

I never said those , I was just making specific point on dowry and black money.

The fact is these days dowry are not limited to gold and it also includes property perhaps was for long time and these days perhaps since 2 decades property has been a great source of making politician ,criminals business man black money to white.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 13 Jul 2013 01:18

Well then I don't know english. I quoted the very passage where you said erosion of rupees causes people to buy gold and property..... ...good lord, talk about derp....

Saar, property has been used as dowry for ages, remember Mumbai and the european dowry system.

As a property owner, #1 reason for me is to lower my taxes. Property tax is very low in India. All other taxes including gold taxes are sky high. Agricultural income is tax free as well, huge advantage for me.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 13 Jul 2013 01:26

"The few who understand the system will either be so interested in its profits or be so
dependent upon its favours that there will be no opposition from that class, while on the other hand, the great body of people, mentally incapable of comprehending the tremendous advantage that capital derives from the system, will bear its burdens without complaint, and perhaps without even suspecting that the system is inimical to their interests.”—
The Rothschild banking family, to associates in New York, 1863

KrishnaK · Post by **KrishnaK** » 13 Jul 2013 03:47

Acharya,
I can point out countless people who have amassed more wealth and power than the Rothschilds. Most of them had only their talents. FYI, even banking that last bastion of old money will lose it's monopoly soon. http://www.lendingclub.com

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 13 Jul 2013 08:04

The Second Great Depression: Why the Economic Crisis Is Worse Than You Think

Neshant · Post by **Neshant** » 13 Jul 2013 08:07

Theo_Fidel wrote:
Neshant wrote:Sure it is. A smaller workforce is made to do the same work - only more of it and at the same or lesser pay.
And the definition of productivity is..... ..Aiy Vey!

Don't slide off the high horse. Your claim was that no new industries have come along. Not about wages or economic warfare or the middle class....

Your cloud computing has failed. You claim there is productivity arising out of cloud computing, 3D printing and other stuff. I pointed out the "productivity" growth (if there even is any) is coming solely out of down sizing and making existing workers do more.

In any case, where is the proof of any productivity growth to begin with? Why the need to print money, rig stock markets, produce fake inflation stats and run up national debt if all this productivity is supposedly occuring? Your whole argument is nullified by that alone.

The immutable law stands

There has not been a single new industry that has emerged since 2000 that employs people with good wages on a vast scale.

That is the whole of the law.

3D Rapid prototyping is already a $10 Billion USA industry...

LOL! 10 billion. You do realise Bernanke is printing somewhere between 85 to 100 billion a month, don't you. And approx 1.4 to 1.6 trillion deficit is being added to the debt every year.

The only 3D printing going on is money printing.

Neshant · Post by **Neshant** » 13 Jul 2013 08:25

The Second Great Depression: Why the Economic Crisis Is Worse Than You Think

What annoys me is these con artist bankers are filling up their pockets ahead of the crash at the expense of those who worked & saved.

Neshant · Post by **Neshant** » 13 Jul 2013 08:29

KrishnaK wrote:Acharya,
The takleef is that these Indians should put their money to better use by investing it in infrastructure. At least the government should make it a viable option.

How do you know putting money in infrastructure is "better use" of the money?

That sounds like Ben Bernanke plan who was "guiding" people to invest in real estate pre-2008. Wasn't owning your own home "better use" of your money.

Eventually all these fools who think they know what's best for others end up creating a huge mess in the economy.

Whenever you get some "wise man" at the top (like a central banker) who deludes himself into thinking he knows what ails the economy and how he needs to control other people's hard earned money, an alarm bell should go off in your head.

If he really can predict what is a good investment and what is not, why doesn't he put 100% of his own money in it and get rich.

Neshant · Post by **Neshant** » 13 Jul 2013 08:39

KrishnaK wrote:FYI, even banking that last bastion of old money will lose it's monopoly soon. http://www.lendingclub.com

I doubt it. The racket of banking is based on control over 2 things :

1) the printing press
2) the political & regulatory bodies

Central banking these days is little more than private bankers offloading their losses on society via running the printing press to pump up their underwater investments.

To prevent people from clueing in, the political cadre is bribed and given consulting gigs with big salaries after they leave office. In exchange, the political cadre enacts and maintains laws to force society to use banker created fiat money and pay their taxes in that fiat money under penalty of imprisonment, confiscation.. (basically violence).

To prevent from being prosecuted for such criminal activities, the regulatory bodies are stuffed with ex-employees from the private banks to create a revolving door system between govt & banks employees. Thus the SEC (Securities and Exchange Commission) which is supposed to prosecute financial fraud does nothing other than offer "settlements" and small fines to banks ripping off billions in scams.

Until the monopoly over the creation of money is taken away from private bankers and until individuals have the right to choose their own system of money, there is not going to be an end to this monopoly of fraud.

Neshant · Post by **Neshant** » 13 Jul 2013 08:50

KrishnaK wrote: Debt is what is used to create gigantic infrastructure

You mean like the real estate bubble which imploded

In a strange twist of fate, an even more gigantic debt is now being used to prop up that initial gigantic debt which imploded - for how long one wonders.

You do realise that debt cannot be done away with by simply turning on the printing press, don't you.

Debt is someone else's savings that is to be repaid with interest.

At the first hint that none of this gigantic debt being taken on is not going to be repaid, what do you think will happen.

Capital comes only from one place and that is out of savings.

It is thus savings not debt which creates infrastructure.

TSJones · Post by **TSJones** » 13 Jul 2013 10:13

^^^^All US corps borrow from the banks, even Apple and Exxon. Most US electricity companies have 50% of their financing in long term bonds. I cud go on nad on....

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 13 Jul 2013 10:26

http://www.economist.com/node/10797600

Paul Solman: In 2005, Charles Morris became convinced that a debt crash was inevitable. In 2006, he began his 10th book to make and explain his prediction. In 2007, he delivered the manuscript, and at the beginning of 2008, Public Affairs Books published "Two Trillion Dollar Meltdown: Easy Money, High Rollers, and the Great Credit Crash," which received almost no notice at all until The Economist magazine wrote about it in March. Six months after that, the deluge.

What's remarkable is how well Morris' analysis of the crash, written before the crash, holds up half a decade after it.

The pendulum swings

The first big book on the credit crunch saw the crisis coming three years ago
Mar 6th 2008 |From the print edition

IN 2005, while running a financial-software company, Charles Morris became convinced that credit markets were heading for a crash. He found a publisher who was willing to take a gamble and began tracing the roots of the yet-to-unfold crisis. However up to date it may seem, this book is no rush job. Mr Morris deftly joins the dots between the Keynesian liberalism of the 1960s, the crippling stagflation of the 1970s and the free-market experimentation of the 1980s and 1990s, before entering the world of ultra-cheap money and financial innovation gone mad.

He puts the eventual bill for the financial follies of the past few years at some $1 trillion—if all the excessive leverage (or borrowing) is wound down in an orderly fashion, which he considers unlikely. Thanks to securitisation, poor-quality mortgages are marbled through the entire global credit system. And there is more to come: commercial property, credit cards, corporate debt, credit-default swaps. For the most exposed institutions, it will be death by a thousand cuts.

TSJones · Post by **TSJones** » 13 Jul 2013 10:36

^^^^So far the US government is making a profit from the 2008 crash. The tax payers aren't out any money on the crash. The stock holders and bond holders of companies like lehman brothers, AIG, GM, and Chrysler took it in the neck but that is the way it's supposed to be in a crash.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 13 Jul 2013 11:32

not only that every single house built during the bubble has been sold and there is now a shortage of housing.
As some of us have been pointing out the USA population increased by roughly 20 Million during the past 6-7 years.
Just this growth means that infrastructure is terribly short now.
One projection I saw from a global engineering company says it will take 15 years to catch to the shortage on infrastructure lag over the crash.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 13 Jul 2013 12:35

S&P affirms Germany's AAA credit rating

Standard & Poor's affirmed on Friday the top-notch triple-A rating for German sovereign debt. The ratings reflect the view of German government’s “track record of prudent fiscal policies and expenditure discipline,” the credit rating agency said. “We believe the German economy has demonstrated its ability to absorb large economic and financial shocks,” it added. S&P also affirmed its stable outlook for Germany’s rating, meaning no downgrade is expected.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 13 Jul 2013 12:38

Russians might get back ‘lost’ Soviet-era deposits, but at a discount

The exchange rate between the 90’s Soviet Roubles and the modern ones caused protest from the Ministry of Economic Development, that says the coefficient of 4 is “negligible” and “improvised”. Under the 1995 law, the full compensation would mean payments with the coefficient of 85, as Kommersant refers to the Deputy Head of the Ministry for Economic Development Oleg Fomichev. “Neither in the draft law nor in the explanatory note is there an explanation for such a marginal level of compensation as 4:1, ” Minfin said. “There are enough variants between the ratios 85:1 and 4:1,” the Ministry added.

The Ministry of Finance in turn insists the full compensation would mean a catastrophe for Russia’s finances. An 85:1 coefficient would increase Russia’s domestic debt by 29.6 trillion Roubles, which is 6 times higher than currently, and almost 3 times higher than the Federal budget.

Compensations to Russians will be reduced by the amount already paid, as about 465 billion roubles has been repaid since the process started in 1996.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 13 Jul 2013 12:41

Chinese economic reforms front-and-centre in talks with U.S

"Chinese officials acknowledged U.S. concerns over the growing problem of the cyber-enabled theft of trade secrets and business confidential information," the Treasury Department said in a statement. "China pledged to better protect against trade secret misappropriation through strengthened enforcement."

U.S. Trade Representative Michael Froman told Reuters the Chinese officials in the talks were "quite focused on how to ensure that they maintain the high levels of growth that they seek to achieve" and their pledges reflected domestic reforms.

The U.S. Treasury said China's commitment to move to a market-determined exchange rate for its currency was "a critical part of China's efforts to rebalance its economy" away from high savings and heavy investment to consumption-led growth.

JwalaMukhi · Post by **JwalaMukhi** » 13 Jul 2013 17:46

Neshant wrote:
KrishnaK wrote:Acharya,
The takleef is that these Indians should put their money to better use by investing it in infrastructure. At least the government should make it a viable option.
How do you know putting money in infrastructure is "better use" of the money?

That sounds like Ben Bernanke plan who was "guiding" people to invest in real estate pre-2008. Wasn't owning your own home "better use" of your money.

Eventually all these fools who think they know what's best for others end up creating a huge mess in the economy.

Whenever you get some "wise man" at the top (like a central banker) who deludes himself into thinking he knows what ails the economy and how he needs to control other people's hard earned money, an alarm bell should go off in your head.

If he really can predict what is a good investment and what is not, why doesn't he put 100% of his own money in it and get rich.

The biggest takleef is some want to define what is good for the many. Some people have idea that money and wealth should be spent/directed in an 'effective way' that they deem it to be correct. Those who advocate such position principally hate the notion of 'freedom of the individuals' to do what they like with their moneys.

People investing in Gold in India are in effect declaring independence from the so called 'corporations' and 'predatory government out to seek rent' who think they can organize the lives of people into fruitful occasion for 'consumption'(corporations) or 'enhance the quality of life' (by govts), through the mechanisms they think it is fit.

People should have the freedom to either direct their monies towards 'phillip morris corporartions' in the name of progress and development or invest in building a piss pot made out of gold.

Extraneous and irrelevant arguments about gold being used as dowry or to make piss pots should be none of anybody's concern, except the individual.

What one man's thinks is wastage can easily be other man's best investment.
In short, there should be full freedom to either be an Amish, a luddite or even a person who accumulates gold to just look at them for his/her fancy. Do not deride freedom, it should be prerogative of the individual.

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 13 Jul 2013 18:01

A few facets of global financial crisis are:

Bankruptcy declared on a Sunday by Lehman Brothers
Midnight secretive and selective bailouts worth trillions and trillions of $$
poor-quality mortgages marbled through the entire global credit system thanks to "securitisation"
hiding sovereign debts in Europe
decades-old scams like LIBOR, oil-price-fixing and so on and on, many of which have been pointed out in this thread itself
Scams and monopolies in energy sector
I could point out a few more.

Individual investment choices do not matter in the global crisis, nor are limited to India or USA alone.

TSJones · Post by **TSJones** » 13 Jul 2013 18:29

^^^^Indivdual investment choices do matter in the global crash.

A. Long term dollar cost averaging in investments.

B. Diversification in at least 5 sectors of the economy, medical/pharma, energy, transportation, financial, tech, and so on.

C. 10% of portfolio in precious metals.

We cannot do anything about black swan events so we must be resilient. The factors of chaos are legion, resilience in our systems is mandatory.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 13 Jul 2013 20:49

US population growth rate has decreased
http://www.indexmundi.com/g/g.aspx?c=us&v=24
http://www.multpl.com/us-population-gro ... le/by-year
http://www.census.gov/popest/data/inter ... t2010.html

Country 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 2011 2012
United States 0.91 0.9 0.89 0.92 0.92 0.92 0.91 0.89 0.88 0.98 0.97 0.96 0.9

One of my friend says that he feels US population is only 250m. He has been in the country since 1985
So there can be no shortage of housing at all in US for a long time.

TSJones · Post by **TSJones** » 13 Jul 2013 23:13

"He puts the eventual bill for the financial follies of the past few years at some $1 trillion—if all the excessive leverage (or borrowing) is wound down in an orderly fashion, which he considers unlikely. Thanks to securitisation, poor-quality mortgages are marbled through the entire global credit system. And there is more to come: commercial property, credit cards, corporate debt, credit-default swaps. For the most exposed institutions, it will be death by a thousand cuts."

When I read stuff like the above, i realize how few people understand accounting and financial reporting standards. Corporations in the US do not by Financial Accounting Standards Board (FASB) rules use cash accounting. They use the accrual system. What does this mean? This means that all underperforming loans, usually over 90 days, must be recognized as a liability (loss) in the corporation's quarterly and annual statements.

Contra accounts are set up to handle those loans that are salvaged or otherwise monies recovered from repossession of the collateral (house).

Accrual accounting also mandates that a sale be recorded as soon as it happens (revenue) not when the cash is received which may be 30 to 90 days down the line. Again if the cash is not received a contra account is set up to handle failed sales. This the mystery of accrual accounting.

So what does this mean? it means that Bank of America which owns Countrywide Mortgage one of the largest mortgage company's in America and holder of many bad mortgages, had a profit of $3.5 BILLION dollars last year. That's 32 cents a share.

Now, knowing that, reread the top paragraph again and consider the beauty of the mis-information.

KrishnaK · Post by **KrishnaK** » 14 Jul 2013 02:29

Neshant wrote:Your cloud computing has failed. You claim there is productivity arising out of cloud computing, 3D printing and other stuff. I pointed out the "productivity" growth (if there even is any) is coming solely out of down sizing and making existing workers do more.

Half of Internet Traffic in North America Is Just to Watch Netflix and YouTube. Netflix streams completely out of AWS and is trading at 250+ now. I could go on. What you state is nonsense.

Neshant wrote:
KrishnaK wrote:Acharya,
The takleef is that these Indians should put their money to better use by investing it in infrastructure. At least the government should make it a viable option.
How do you know putting money in infrastructure is "better use" of the money?

Companies/govt advertise their wares on the stock market. It's very much the individual's choice in what to invest in. I've no idea what you're even saying here.

A small clique using their overwhelming advantage to keep teeming billions in thrall sounds very much like excuses emanating from our Paki brothers. The YYY axis has been replaced by them/bankers/US/west/....

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 14 Jul 2013 06:12

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/econ ... plans.html

Renewed fear of global recession as companies rein in spending plans
Growth in spending on machinery and investment by the world’s 2,000 biggest companies has begun to contract for the first time since the Lehman crisis, led by sharp falls in China and a near collapse in Latin America.

Standard & Poor’s warned that the global cycle for capital investment has already rolled over, with early signs pointing to deepening contraction of 5.4pc in 2014. “The capex recovery appears to be ending before it has really begun,” said the agency’s Gareth Williams.
Company spending plans are watched as an early warning gauge for the economy. The drastic falls in large parts of the world doom hopes for strong recovery later this year, and even point to a recession risk.

The International Monetary Fund has cut its global forecast for this year to 3.1pc, sharply downgrading Russia, Brazil, South Africa, India and Mexico, as well as Italy and Germany. “Policymakers everywhere need to increase efforts to ensure robust growth,” it said.
The unexpected pull-back in company spending is a serious blow. It had been assumed that firms must soon start to spend their huge cash piles, helping to kickstart recovery. “This is a pretty troubling snapshot of the global economy and it shows endemic lack of confidence. Companies are still worried, and there still is excess capacity in autos and other industries,” said Mr Williams.
S&P said the commodity bloc had been hit hardest as the energy and materials boom turns to bust, with capex likely to drop by more than 20pc in Australia and 40pc in Latin America in 2014.

The resource industry accounted for 42pc of global capex spending last year. This is now crumbling, with little else ready to take its place. “If the commodity 'super cycle' is drawing to an end, capex growth rates could remain depressed for years,” said S&P.
The grim data come amid fresh signs of a trade slump in Asia. “Recent Asian export data have been little short of disastrous. Momentum has turned negative, running at -3pc in May,” said Mole Hau from BNP Paribas.

Japan is recovering but it has done so through a 30pc fall in the yen, inflicting a deflationary trade shock on the rest of Asia and China. Chinese exports fell 3.1pc in June from a year ago, the biggest drop since the Great Recession. Car exports crashed by fifth.
Morgan Stanley said China’s authorities are willing to risk an outright recession to purge credit excess from the system, and this could lead to a “bumpy ride” with growth falling below 6pc next year.

However, it may prove hard to calibrate a soft landing after the explosive growth in loans since 2008. Fitch Ratings says credit has jumped from $9 trillion (£5.9bn) to $23 trillion, increasingly in the shadow banking system. The risk is overkill, leading to a full-blown financial crisis.

Neshant · Post by **Neshant** » 15 Jul 2013 06:30

KrishnaK wrote:Half of Internet Traffic in North America Is Just to Watch Netflix and YouTube

What has that got to do with the subject being discussed ?

KrishnaK wrote: A small clique using their overwhelming advantage to keep teeming billions in thrall

You mean like central banking.

Central banking - better known as private banker monopoly over the money printing press.

Do you or do you not agree that people who earned the money have a right to decide what to do with it without some "wise man" at the top directing them on how they may use their hard earned money.

Its a simple yes or no question with no buts.

Neshant · Post by **Neshant** » 15 Jul 2013 06:46

TSJones wrote:^^^^All US corps borrow from the banks, even Apple and Exxon. Most US electricity companies have 50% of their financing in long term bonds. I cud go on nad on....

With what do you think the bonds are purchased ?

Its not free money that shows up out of thin air.

Bonds are purchased with savings. Bonds represent a promise to repay those savings plus interest down the line.

Repeat after me :

Capital can only come out of savings.

Capital is either its a claim against present savings or future savings (revenue).

The latter is more typically called credit. But central bankers are now calling credit as capital - credit being govt enforced extortion of wealth from society through taxation, inflation, confiscation..etc either now or shortly down the line.

TSJones · Post by **TSJones** » 15 Jul 2013 07:10

^^^^Acutally, capital is way more subtle than your definition.

Trust me, shares of stock are capital. Did you know that shares of Amazon stock are valued at more than $200 per? Yet the company doesn't make very much money(profit), why is that Neshant? You can take take shares of Amazon and buy all kinds of things like cars, houses, etc. The founder of Amazon, Jeff Bezos does it all the time. He is even developing a spaceship and plans to launch it from his ranch in Texas. The engine is being developed at the NASA's John Stennis Test Center in Mississippi. All provided by shares of Amazon stock which doesn't even pay a dividend. The company doesn't have enough profit to pay a dividend! How can this be Neshant? With no savings?

TSJones · Post by **TSJones** » 15 Jul 2013 07:12

Wells Fargo, the nations largest mortgage company and 4th largest bank wrote off a lesser amount for bad mortgages....

http://www.cnbc.com/id/100880373?__sour ... 0373|Wells Fargo gets housing

...booked 98 cents a share for the second quarter.

KrishnaK · Post by **KrishnaK** » 15 Jul 2013 07:42

Neshant wrote:
KrishnaK wrote:Half of Internet Traffic in North America Is Just to Watch Netflix and YouTube
What has that got to do with the subject being discussed ?

If cloud computing was hype, a major chunk of internet traffic wouldn't be served from it. It is very much in use, very much a big part of innovation in the Silicon Valley. A lot of the future valuation of Nasdaq is being cooked up exactly on that hyped up Cloud Computing. But that is still nothing. It will become a part of the infrastructure we take for granted, like the power grid. You wouldn't call the power grid hype, now would you ?

KrishnaK wrote: A small clique using their overwhelming advantage to keep teeming billions in thrall
You mean like central banking.
Central banking - better known as private banker monopoly over the money printing press.
Do you or do you not agree that people who earned the money have a right to decide what to do with it without some "wise man" at the top directing them on how they may use their hard earned money.
Its a simple yes or no question with no buts.

Yes. Nobody's forcing anybody to do otherwise.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 15 Jul 2013 09:26

Neshant wrote:Do you or do you not agree that people who earned the money have a right to decide what to do with it without some "wise man" at the top directing them on how they may use their hard earned money.

Don't disagree with the other stuff but...
Well that is the entire argument isn't it.

Lehmann declaring $ Billion bonuses to execs as they were circling the drain, Wall street bonus of $35 Billion in 2007 just before their corrupt malfeasance destroyed the savings of millions. Then asking the same millions for $700 Billion in money or they would fire everyone, and then going ahead and firing everyone anyway just in case.

So what 'earning' are we talking about.

No the rich at the top have so much because the folks in the middle and bottom create so much for them to take. They should not forget it...

TSJones · Post by **TSJones** » 15 Jul 2013 10:06

And Lehman bros and Bear Stearns paid the price which they so richly deserved. Too bad none of them were sent to jail. It's hard to jail an oligarch.

These people are connected at the highest levels.