Statewide and National runup to 2014 General elections

ShyamSP · Post by **ShyamSP** » 11 Jul 2013 20:29

Sushupti wrote:

huh? It is good idea to give summary of the tweest and about the tweeters. Not every BRF member knows who they are.

If it is Rayala Telangana, it won't be joint capital. If it is non-Hyderbad Telangana, then joint capital is possible. These are still proposals that people are yet to buy? It could be they will be rejected by all participants so no proposal can be agreed on. What it means is Telangana as requested is not possible.

Rayala Telangana is artificial construct and gerrymandering based on current politics. It will create additional mess of water sharing as it means splitting Rayalaseema region.

Non-Hyderabad Telangana with joint capital may be acceptable to the non-Telangana side and it could be acceptable solution.

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 11 Jul 2013 20:35

So what will dividing the state do for Congress electorally?

Virupaksha · Post by **Virupaksha** » 11 Jul 2013 20:48

RoyG wrote:So what will dividing the state do for Congress electorally?

simple answer, it is a curve ball or a diversion.

That particular division of (half rayalseema + telangana - hyderabad) will be opposed by everyone. No body asked for that division, nobody wants that division. If they want andhra to be in a perpetual boil while they carry on, the congress has brought the perfect rumor. This will bring sort of deflective power to congress but nothing beyond that. It only shows they are not half serious about doing anything, but this sort of news will show that they are doing something.
+
If it goes anything beyond the rumor stage, I expect things to come to complete halt all over andhra + telangana + rayalaseema.

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 11 Jul 2013 21:22

^^Thank you for the explanation Virupakshaji. I mentioned the strategy that Congress will use to jail opposition figures until elections are over.

Vikas · Post by **Vikas** » 11 Jul 2013 21:28

Why should the name of the new entity be Hyderabad. It should be Telangana Pradesh or just Telangana.

Virupaksha · Post by **Virupaksha** » 11 Jul 2013 21:32

VikasRaina wrote:Why should the name of the new entity be Hyderabad. It should be Telangana Pradesh or just Telangana.

telangana + rayalseema + hyderabad was the demand of MIM and co. (primary demand was status quo)

they definitely would not want minus hyderabad.

Virupaksha · Post by **Virupaksha** » 11 Jul 2013 21:32

RoyG wrote:^^Thank you for the explanation Virupakshaji. I mentioned the strategy that Congress will use to jail opposition figures until elections are over.

they already have Jagan in jail, any more would showcase people clearly of their vendetta attitude.

Ashok Sarraff · Post by **Ashok Sarraff** » 11 Jul 2013 21:35

Revolt in MP Congress---their leader opposes his own party's no-confidence motion and joins BJP.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/hindi/india/2013/0 ... t_sk.shtml

Spark was Doggy Raja's twit: Baccha baccha Ram ka, Raghavji ke kaam ka. (Raghavji was BJP minister jailed for sodomy.)

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 11 Jul 2013 21:36

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 11 Jul 2013 21:45

Virupaksha wrote:
VikasRaina wrote:Why should the name of the new entity be Hyderabad. It should be Telangana Pradesh or just Telangana.
telangana + rayalseema + hyderabad was the demand of MIM and co. (primary demand was status quo)

they definitely would not want minus hyderabad.

I asked when old Nizam's hyderabad was about 10% of modern Hyderabad in terms of economic contribuiton and why not rename it as Cyberabad or better Bhagyanagar which was its original name, one babu told me I don't understand the emotional tug that the name Hyderabad has for Muslims all over India and in Pakistan.

He said by merging the old Hyderabad into Andhra Pradesh, the Muslims feel that one of their states got Reconquistaed.

So most likely the new plan is to appease the Muslims all across the country by creating a new state called Hyderabad. Recall Ghulam Nabi Azad was the one who is supposed to have suggested carving out some districts from Rayalaseema and incorporate with Telanagana.

The irony is Muslims were about 17% in old Nizam's state whiich was spread over AP, Karantaka, and Maharastra.

If this new state is created then eventually it will seek to expand to old Nizam's dominions.

I dont see how anyone can defy logic and include Kurnool and Anantapur into Telengana!!!!

But INC doesn't work of logic but brute force.

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 11 Jul 2013 21:56

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 11 Jul 2013 21:59

What is Chiranjeevi plan?

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 11 Jul 2013 22:02

ShyamSP wrote:
huh? It is good idea to give summary of the tweest and about the tweeters. Not every BRF member knows who they are.

If it is Rayala Telangana, it won't be joint capital. If it is non-Hyderbad Telangana, then joint capital is possible. These are still proposals that people are yet to buy? It could be they will be rejected by all participants so no proposal can be agreed on. What it means is Telangana as requested is not possible.

Rayala Telangana is artificial construct and gerrymandering based on current politics. It will create additional mess of water sharing as it means splitting Rayalaseema region.

Non-Hyderabad Telangana with joint capital may be acceptable to the non-Telangana side and it could be acceptable solution.

Think of me as a messenger Sir! "Main aap ko baithe baithe malai khilata hoon aur aap bache ki taraha gussa ho jaate ho. Here is his link https://twitter.com/chinmaykrvd Khud hee pooch lo. He is a Telugu guy.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 11 Jul 2013 22:30

all this junk other than Telangana with Hyderabad in it will not work for Telanganites. They don't want to be part of any others in the current strife torn state of AP. Every other theory is being proposed to make all fight like pigs and dogs and finally do disservice to Telangana sentiment. In the end it is all a ploy to keep the state united at a cost called as congress victory in AP.

ShyamSP · Post by **ShyamSP** » 11 Jul 2013 22:35

Sushupti wrote:Think of me as a messenger Sir! "Main aap ko baithe baithe malai khilata hoon aur aap bache ki taraha gussa ho jaate ho. Here is his link https://twitter.com/chinmaykrvd Khud hee pooch lo. He is a Telugu guy.

I know you're not that Chinmay guy. Just qualify the message and author and post the twitter link with you own summary/intro. Please don't pollute thread with links where bunch of folks sending messages to themselves.

This subject is well wetted in BRF including all scenario analysis so rumor tweets have no value.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 11 Jul 2013 22:46

The locked Telangana thread is still in the archives.

Meanwhile polticsparty guy is salivating bifurcation T +S-A

He is also whining about Modi tying up with Marandi in Jharkhand.

krisna · Post by **krisna** » 11 Jul 2013 23:12

no kamments.

disha · Post by **disha** » 12 Jul 2013 02:30

Now SC has added "undertrial" has no right to contest. That is unfair, since the way justice system moves, one can spend their entire life as an undertrial without getting judgement. Conviction or not. Just take a look at Sadhvi Pragya. Still an "undertrial".

That is a serious lacunae and actually sometimes I wonder whether the SC judges really think through their judgements?

And on twitter, Madhu kishwar raised this point - corrupt judges can indulge in bidding contests for their judgements now.

So how do we bring transparency to this system?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 12 Jul 2013 02:38

This is suspicious timing of this vague judgement. It assumes the lower courts are very through. Most of the times their judgements are overturned by SC themselves.
Its disenfranchisement by judgement.

All the ruling gang has to do is implicate its opponents in cases and continue. Its like British Raj.

The founding fathers had this clause as most of them were former prisoners of British Raj and knew how valid those charges were!

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 12 Jul 2013 03:17

Pioneer Op-Ed

Looks like something is cooking

Telangana: Hobson's choice for the Congress

Friday, 12 July 2013 | Kalyani Shankar | in Oped

Whatever decision the party takes on carving a new entity out of Andhra Pradesh, it should reconcile itself to losing the State

Will Telangana become a separate State? The vexed problem is about to be solved if one goes by the mood in the Congress. Lawmakers from Telangana have accused the Centre of following a ‘one-step-forward-two-backward’ approach on the ‘separate State’ issue, but the Congress leadership cannot afford to dilly-dally anymore. The AICC general secretary and in-charge of Andhra Pradesh, Digvijaya Singh has submitted his report to party president Sonia Gandhi. There are two options: Keep a united Andhra Pradesh or to grant Telangana. The Congress leadership has to take a call soon.

Part of the reason for the delay is that the Congress continues to look for a win-win strategy in all the three regions. But it can no more postpone a decision, as elections to the Lok Sabha and also to the State Assemblies are due in a few months. The Congress faces a Hobson’s choice, as the people of the other two regions will protest violently if a separate Telangana is carved out of Andhra Pradesh. While there will be bloodshed in Telangana if a separate State is not given for which the people of this region have been waiting for more than five decades.

The Congress-led UPA Government has got away far too long on the issue. Party leaders from Telangana region have been finding it increasingly difficult to justify this prevarication for years, despite Congress’s assurances in December 2009 that a separate Telangana would become a reality.

The Congress held that a consensus needed to be built on the sensitive issue. But most political parties and public representatives from the State are divided on regional lines, some opposing, some favouring Telangana. The region, except Hyderabad, has historically lagged due to its geography and politics. It has also been a Maoist hotbed for the past four decades.

The Centre’s flip-flop over the issue began on December 9, 2009, when the then Union Minister for Home Affairs P Chidambaram promised the formation of a new State, only to retract fearing a backlash. The Centre-appointed Srikrishna Commission listed six options in its report, but the UPA shied from a decision. Two things are at the crux of the issue: Hyderabad’s future, and the repercussions of sharing river waters from the completed and planned irrigation projects after the State’s division.

Andhra Pradesh gave 33 valuable seats to the UPA2 in 2009 and the Congress also returned to power in the State. However, the party has lost its hold since former Chief Minister YS Rajasekhara Reddy’s death and the birth of YSR Congress floated by his rebel son YS Jaganmohan Reddy. In the absence of a strong leadership, the Congress is staring at a bleak future in the State.

Assuming the Congress does grant a separate Telangana, what would be the fallout? The immediate crisis would be that the MPs from the other two regions would resign affecting the UPA2, already reduced to a minority after the departure of the Trinamool Congress and the DMK. The calculations for the 2014 poll were that the Congress would get a majority of the 17 seats from the region and the Telangana Rashtra Samithi would merge with the Congress. But the hard assessment is that it would not get more than eight to nine seats and the credit would go to the TRS which is spearheading the Telangana agitation.

Again, the Congress would be wiped out in the Rayalaseema region where the contest would be between the Congress and the Jaganmohan-led YSR Congress, who has an upper hand. In the Andhra region, the Telugu Desam Party, languishing these past four years, too would benefit in a contest with the Congress. The Congress tried to boost its fortunes in coastal Andhra by launching K Chiranjeevi, after a merger of his Praja Rajyam Party into the Congress, but that experiment failed.

If the Congress decides on a ‘united’ Andhra Pradesh, Telangana will burn. The Congress MPs and legislators will resign. There is also the possibility of the BJP joining hands with the TRS, and the danger of Maoists and students capturing the movement. The Congress may also have to change the State’s leadership to deal with the situation. Whatever the decision, the Centre and the State should be ready to face a volatile situation, even to impose President’s Rule if the situation becomes unmanageable. The Congress will have to reconcile itself to losing the State.

So most likely the general elections will be forced one way or the other.

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 12 Jul 2013 03:50

if Telangana is given, I expect Coastal elites to go for vengeance. will go to any lengths to destroy the water reserves of T, even if it means massive flooding in coastal areas during monsoon. my views have changed about many things. but this, I have only become surer. if T is given, coastal elites will go for blood-curdling vengeance.

for the long-term scenario, that could be quite disastrous. but vengeance is not stopped by long-term nationalistic calculations.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 12 Jul 2013 03:58

SC is being used to target Modi & Co.

ramana wrote: All the ruling gang has to do is implicate its opponents in cases and continue. Its like British Raj.

During the heydays of IT people lining up to get H1B visas. Two coworkers entered into an heated argument. One coworker threatened he would just register a case at the local Police Station against the other coworker, and effectively causing some takleef/delay in getting passport and thereby H1B. If simple people can think of such schemes, hard core politicians easily could design nefarious machinations.

ShyamSP · Post by **ShyamSP** » 12 Jul 2013 04:45

devesh wrote:if Telangana is given, I expect Coastal elites to go for vengeance. will go to any lengths to destroy the water reserves of T, even if it means massive flooding in coastal areas during monsoon. my views have changed about many things. but this, I have only become surer. if T is given, coastal elites will go for blood-curdling vengeance.

for the long-term scenario, that could be quite disastrous. but vengeance is not stopped by long-term nationalistic calculations.

They only need to make sure Hyderabad is not given to T thugs. Naxals and no major economy will take care of the rest. No vengence like you said will be there.

Hyderabad state rumored to be given looks to be sick joke on BJP

It will be fun to watch bjp voting for "Hyderabad" state.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 12 Jul 2013 04:57

devesh wrote:if Telangana is given, I expect Coastal elites to go for vengeance. will go to any lengths to destroy the water reserves of T, even if it means massive flooding in coastal areas during monsoon. my views have changed about many things. but this, I have only become surer. if T is given, coastal elites will go for blood-curdling vengeance.

for the long-term scenario, that could be quite disastrous. but vengeance is not stopped by long-term nationalistic calculations.

What can they do really? Nothing will happen and in the short run there will be some rhona dhona and it subsides as time progresses. Some fear mongering will be there on either side for a while for sure.

Actually the proposal of trifurcation is better than bifurcation. Telangana, Greater Rayalaseema with Nellore, Prakasam included and rest of junk called as coastal AP. Once for all this thing will be closed. The grand plans of keeping the state united has no real meaning unless T folks call the bluff with some adjustment (this time T folks are very determined to have a separate state as they are really sold on exploitation by others).

If congress really divides or declare that they will not divide it will just be gone from everywhere. Even the five to seven being predicted now by surveys are all gone the minute they do either.

AP folks electorally are just sheep and never looked with long-term nationalistic calculations. Let me share an example, on the day when Indira was assassinated when nothing was plying a shared rickshaw gave us a ride when we are returning from school. One of the big villager (Guntupalli about 15 km from Vijayawada towards Hyd) who was in the ricshaw with a short wave radio was predicting that next one who will be assassinated will be Vangaveeti Mohan Ranga Rao (a local Vijayawada goon). For those who deeply follow caste politics will understand the deep rooted stupidity of being happy about Indira assassination and hoping for a local goon's similar fate. Telugus may have succeeded in creating large scale wealth, getting top ranks in schools or even herded the US as doctors, software engineers etc, but very poor in India's nationalist outlook. On the other hand they are also extremely poor in becoming chauvinistic with regional/linguistic pride. Irrespective of the past history of great kingdoms, from the time they are divided between Madras Presidency and Nizam Kingdom, they really became mentally bankrupt. It is better to accept the reality rather than trying to prove otherwise.

The blackmailing style of usage of sentiment is what Congress is trying to keep this item live and make other parties run for cover with tail around legs. In simple terms they are exploiting the very high interest of one side to have united state Vs the other side wanting a separate state no matter what. The plan is to make public statements in favor of Telangana state and in private drag it so that the other side is kept in good spirits.. By making public favorable statements in favor of T they are giving lease of life to T-congress leaders and also giving run for money to TRS. By giving too many central ministries to the non-T folks and assuring them that their business interests will be in tact because they are the biggest financiers of INC, they are making sure that there will be no exodus of wealthy-leaders to YSRC or TDP.

Now they may first announce the formation of T on behalf of INC, they will next get it struck down by UPA and will go to polls with T-assurance that after the next poll it will be first thing on agenda. While doing it they will ensure no one leaves INC from other side with giving too many soft deals and making sure they spend (100 to 200 cr per seat) the hell out for each MP seat and keep rumors such as HYD as UT etc to allow the ambiguity to go on and on.

Telugus are drugged to the maximum by INC and they are not going to get out. They are willing to shell out a crore to even buy a shit just for pride but are now a huge failure to think together that they are being taken for a ride by the Italian mafia.

We discussed this in about 100 pages of T thread. It is really boring topic these days but disappointing too because this issue is the real reason for Modi's juggernaut not rolling into AP's 42 seats.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 12 Jul 2013 05:00

ShyamSP wrote:Hyderabad state rumored to be given looks to be sick joke on BJP It will be fun to watch bjp voting for "Hyderabad" state.

BJP will not vote for it. BJP will only vote for Telangana with Hyderabad and no other slicing and dicing. The entire slicing and dicing stuff are being brought as strawmen so that there will be no votes for T in parl. They can go as they tried but others did not help them.

ShyamSP · Post by **ShyamSP** » 12 Jul 2013 06:00

Muppalla wrote:
ShyamSP wrote:Hyderabad state rumored to be given looks to be sick joke on BJP It will be fun to watch bjp voting for "Hyderabad" state.
BJP will not vote for it. BJP will only vote for Telangana with Hyderabad and no other slicing and dicing. The entire slicing and dicing stuff are being brought as strawmen so that there will be no votes for T in parl. They can go as they tried but others did not help them.

Yeah that's right. Sick joke is they will be exposed during voting and debate. If they are for small states, why not vote for "Hyderabad" state. Otherwise, they will be agreeing to the argument that Seema-Andhras looted Telangana so Telangana is needed.

BJP doesn't have any legitimate right to ask for Telangana.

Muppalla wrote:For those who deeply follow caste politics will understand the deep rooted stupidity of being happy about Indira assassination and hoping for a local goon's similar fate. Telugus may have succeeded in creating large scale wealth, getting top ranks in schools or even herded the US as doctors, software engineers etc, but very poor in India's nationalist outlook. On the other hand they are also extremely poor in becoming chauvinistic with regional/linguistic pride. Irrespective of the past history of great kingdoms, from the time they are divided between Madras Presidency and Nizam Kingdom, they really became mentally bankrupt. It is better to accept the reality rather than trying to prove otherwise.

Remember "Deep rooted stupidity" Indira played when NTR went abroad for surgery. AP voted Congress out even after assassination. Stupidity begets stupidity.

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 12 Jul 2013 07:13

ShyamSP wrote:
They only need to make sure Hyderabad is not given to T thugs. Naxals and no major economy will take care of the rest. No vengence like you said will be there.

Hyderabad state rumored to be given looks to be sick joke on BJP It will be fun to watch bjp voting for "Hyderabad" state.

ok fair enough. always rest assured with the thought that the "backward interiors" will blow themselves if left to their own devices.
so what, this is the "coastal man's burden" now? it gel's well with your theories like "forced funding" when it comes to giving packages to backward areas for specific targeted development.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 12 Jul 2013 07:26

looks like the proposed caliphate will gain a new nodal point and 'liberated city' as the center of their deccan sultanate plans.

soft kingdoms on the periphery like karnataka and odisha had better watch out. new sultans are always hungry for loot and murder (of kafirs) to prove their prowress and religious piety.

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 12 Jul 2013 07:32

^^^
this is CT territory. but the "division" might by orchestrated by the "deep state" within the coastal/trade/business sections.

I am thinking that the "division" is more a ruse that will allow the elites to play off the "interiors" against the Islamics. this gives the right excuse for the elites to keep their own Hindu populations sedated. "what can we do? those T-wallahs are self-destructive naxals. we must support the rising sultanate to keep the devils at bay."

in the meantime, harvesting of souls continues in the Eastern section.

in reality, this might be the division of "spoils" by Islamics and Christianists.

Dasari · Post by **Dasari** » 12 Jul 2013 07:34

Hold all your celebrations or disappointments. Here is the ultimate twist. Whether we like it or not, AP cannot be bifurcated.. A constitutional twist by Digvijaya Singh on the eve the great debate..
Digvijay Singh throws statute T-wister

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 12 Jul 2013 07:41

^^^
on a side note, I am neither celebrating nor mourning. I don't know what the big picture scheme is. and as long as I don't know, I can't ever be comfortable with what's going on. the whole episode starting from the sudden and inexplicable Dec 2009 announcement has left me guessing and groping for explanations. there is nothing to cheer here. the real moves and motives remain hidden.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 12 Jul 2013 08:15

Dasari wrote:Hold all your celebrations or disappointments. Here is the ultimate twist. Whether we like it or not, AP cannot be bifurcated.. A constitutional twist by Digvijaya Singh on the eve the great debate..
Digvijay Singh throws statute T-wister

This is pretty obvious.

Added later:
INC is trying to show they want to create Telangana but they have no numbers to do and hence you have to wait.

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 12 Jul 2013 20:28

First they can not make up their mind after the blunder ofv Chiddu in December 9. Justice Krishna refused to provide cover for any decision and provide the lack of development argument is rubbish. The main reason of present state of affairs in AP is the weak CM. Any strong and popular CM could have kept the issue fully solve by united state with his popularity and power. When you have people liek Rossayya as CM you are bound to have lot of issues.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 13 Jul 2013 01:02

The following two article deduct what is going on regarding AP. They simply will not have congress party in one of the states after division and hence finding to drag on but give hope to Telangana and also hopes to the otherside with two different approaches.

AP CM presentation and pitching up to keep the state united and pointing that there is no need for division.

CM Kiran Reddy puts spanner in Telangana statehood, Cong buys more time

Announcement on Telangana may come this month

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 13 Jul 2013 03:46

Telegraph:

http://www.telegraphindia.com/1130713/j ... 112778.jsp

Congress buys time

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 13 Jul 2013 04:19

^^
KKR seems to be a quite guy but has good presentation skills and management skills. In the end it seems like INC will declare T state but they will put the whole issue into constitutional and legal wrangles and make it look like impossible to divide the state. The DC article referring Diggy Raja points to not just constitutional amendment but schedule amendment which is very difficult to get in this coalition era.

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 13 Jul 2013 07:44

INC is trying to create Dwaitha and advita at the same time. We now discuss creation of states to suit the election prospects of the rulers. Just great.

KKR has an image of a person who is a very adament fellow. If he is againt division, it is difficult to make him change his idea. It seems he does not want to end up a person who failed to protect the unit of the state and consumed to history as an utter failure. Indication of INC losing its grip

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 13 Jul 2013 08:10

^^^
I hardly think most INC CM's have such lofty ideals as historic legacy. you cannot analyze INC "heads" through that prism.
anybody who seriously thought on those lines is dead.

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 13 Jul 2013 08:57

Narayana Rao wrote:INC is trying to create Dwaitha and advita at the same time. We now discuss creation of states to suit the election prospects of the rulers. Just great.

KKR has an image of a person who is a very adament fellow. If he is againt division, it is difficult to make him change his idea. It seems he does not want to end up a person who failed to protect the unit of the state and consumed to history as an utter failure. Indication of INC losing its grip

And Brahmn(Telengana) is beyond both