Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Chandragupta · Post by **Chandragupta** » 14 Jul 2013 22:58

True that. Even in the Hindi belt, genhu (wheat)/chana roti with salt, onion & gud is staple, specially for the lower income groups. Onion is more important than what a lot of us think.

satya · Post by **satya** » 14 Jul 2013 23:00

Can the voters living in slums or slum like areas in urban areas & rural areas find connection with NaMojee's message ( if it gets communicated to them on a platform similar to Ram Mandir in 90s ) stronger than one with INC's vote buying machine ?

Will the middle class come out in numbers to vote atleast in urban areas ? If answer is yes to both questions then there is a chance of 'some upsets' otherwise a maximum difference of no more than 20/25 seats between INC & BJP led pre-election coalition remains valid .

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 14 Jul 2013 23:30

The TOIlet paper hoax is also a reminder to Modi supporters to not tom-tom and stretch things, and place Modi on a pedestal. He is talking the right things, and attracting people. More intellectuals, youth, honest politicians, technocrats, babucracy, scientists, soldiers, students ityadi will join. Modi is managing things good, hopefully the supporters do not mess up things for him.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 14 Jul 2013 23:37

Atri wrote:Roti(called Bhaakri) of jowar/bajra/nachni flour with onion and dried groundnut powder with red chilli powder has been the staple food of maharashtrians for centuries. Somwtimes when one is rich, one can take a dish called jhoonkaa (besan, aka chanaa flour cooked with onion in water and dried) is accompanied.

Onion and garlic, more so onion, is a big deal in MH. It is not only used for tadka by the well off class, but for farmers and working class, it is equivalent to potato and is a part of staple diet.

It has become a staple even in some of the orthodox brahmin families in the south. I am goading my kids who hate onion to eat more onion and drink plenty of water - for they cannot disseminate heat generated by the body effectively. Imagine the people living in the plateau parts of India - where the heat becomes unimaginable. I would gladly take the Madras heat over the Hyderabad heat.

Food and prices are an important election issue; apart from being emotional subjects. Same goes for caste, it is easy for us to say people should not vote on caste basis.

Supratik · Post by **Supratik** » 15 Jul 2013 00:06

satya wrote:Can the voters living in slums or slum like areas in urban areas & rural areas find connection with NaMojee's message ( if it gets communicated to them on a platform similar to Ram Mandir in 90s ) stronger than one with INC's vote buying machine ?

Will the middle class come out in numbers to vote atleast in urban areas ? If answer is yes to both questions then there is a chance of 'some upsets' otherwise a maximum difference of no more than 20/25 seats between INC & BJP led pre-election coalition remains valid .

It has to be a different message. The INC and its leftist peons know that they are loosing the middle class. Hence, the desperation with FSB. Somehow bribe the poor to get votes. Judging from the speeches by NM they do not have anyone with either that kind of vision or oratory. So they would like to "fix" him. Thank democracy that they cannot stop him otherwise. But Dilli-doorasht. The poor make up the majority and vote in numbers. Tomorrow's dal-roti is more enticing than a bright future. Have to wait to see how he reaches out to them.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 15 Jul 2013 01:40

Singha wrote:around late 90s timeframe when UPA was out of power and we hadnt seen the true face of 10 janpath and its army of orcs, I recall digvijaya singh was then the CM of MP for a while and held up in BRF as a exemplar of the constructive side of the INC and how 'progressive' and 'can do' CMs it could produce

I dont have any insight into his stint as MP CM? was he good then?

he sure started going downhill once appointed as Bayram khan to mentor the young "Akbar" ...

He was a complete and total disaster. In the name of governance, he institutionalized corruption all the way to the panchayat level using jargon like bringing democracy to the masses etc. Basically ensured handpicked chamchas would dispense largesse from state government and things would worsen
Next, the infrastructure nearly completely broke down during his tenure. Lot of talk at the time that this guy was an engineer, etc etc and would hence invest in "building the state". We can guess what he built, but it wasn't roads or anything of good for the state. Remember crossing from MP into Maharashtra, and it was like moving from the 11th century (with potholed bullock cart worthy roads to actual highways). Even existing roads in the primary cities were not spared. Road maintenance is a complex and painful exercise. If not done regularly, then it gets down to the first level, and you have to actually redo the whole thing, point is the topmost layer (of bitumen/damar etc) needs to be periodically replaced after each set of rains, heavy traffic/periodically, so the entire road does not get damaged. In his tenure, all that happened was every bit of infra started breaking apart. Where did the money go? We don't know.
Basically, as an administrator, he was worthless

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 15 Jul 2013 01:55

a_bharat wrote:Heard his speech for the first time; now I can understand why his opponents are so scared and desperate to fix him in some case or the other.

First there were misinformation campaign for a decade after Godhra train conspiracy to burn Hindus alive. It took a decade till those accusations fell by the wayside in the Supreme Court. Then the fake encounter cases started to appear, only after that.

These accusations and misinformation campaign don't seem to run concurrently but one after the other, while for con race the whole corruption saga goes on and on all at the same time!

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 15 Jul 2013 01:56

SwamyG wrote:
RoyG wrote: I wonder if he has had any communication with Rajiv Malhotra.
It is reasonable to assume that all ideas he project are not his. I have read Atanu Dey writing about university and university building. It is reasonable to expect and assume, there is team that is scouring the Internet and talking to people to get funnel ideas to Modi and his core team. A CEO does not generate all ideas nor he implements them all. He creates an environment that fosters ideas and provides opportunities to the enablers and implementers. Hopefully Modi is just not talk. He is after all a politician, toda bahut bada chada ke bolega.

Thing is it takes a special kind of person to both identify useful ideas (as versus crackpot ones) and then have the courage (as these efforts are sometimes unpopular) to persist with the support for these ideas to get them implemented. There is a good reason why becoming a CEO or a leader from the front is not everyone's cup of tea or even their competence. The ability to see the big picture, yet ensure the details are ok (or choose the right people to get these implemented) and also to consistently be on watch 24/7, is a very rare skill. Most politicians in India look at feathering their nests & leaving the actual day to day running to the bureaucrats. Their other big focus is to manage politics (within the party and outside). Admin is way down their list of priorities.
Modi, Chauhan, Parrikar seem to be the rare breed who have managed both development & their regular political schedules, which is what makes them successful. Might be other CMs too (JJ comes to mind), but the INC seems to have become focused purely on winning elections and ignoring development. Question is how long will this continue? The middle class is slowly waking up, despite the efforts of the MSM to keep them tame, docile and "secular".

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 15 Jul 2013 02:21

bhakt chaanakya, yes.. i did'nt expect you to answer the question, but i was pointing that non-gujarat public should seek for such kpis, on which they measure to vote.

now.. normals (in my dual party system - remember i posted the other party being hooligans), should consider these kpis in mind. but, i am afraid from stats alone, we have way too much support for hooligans than normals. jmt. /i want to be proved wrong... in the sense, if the metrics really matter for any indic voting minds at large.

fanne · Post by **fanne** » 15 Jul 2013 02:30

Here is my theory on Congress success. the biggest group in India is 'poor'. It is not forward caste, of Dalits or even minorities or Hindi speaking or Tamil. I believe after 1999 loss to ABV, someone in Congress figured this out, that to win election, they have to concentrate on the poor. Now I do credit Congress with knowing the pulse of the people as they have kicked out good leaders long ago (and for all CT theory walla, figure out who is running the show).There first round of winning this election on some kind of 'poor' manipulation was the Onion case. That proved that the theory worked in practice. They perfected that art during 2004 and then further in 2009, NEREGA(2004) and Food Bill are step in that direction. Plus probably they have the biggest database of all daily wages worker, contractors controlling them. This is where most black money is spent.
Now my prediction for 2014 is simple, Middle class may ditch Cong (but funny thing is probably in 2009 also they were not with Con anyway, please see urban poll by Nielson just before 2009, BJP still led congress, however results were different). I believe the x factor is this poor people who are very well managed by cong. Till BJP somehow breaks into that, tough luck. Remember in India you have to win 27% of popular vote to make govt).

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 15 Jul 2013 02:33

precisely.. AP CEO cb naidu was different than modi.. in the sense, he ignored the poor. look where he is now.

krisna · Post by **krisna** » 15 Jul 2013 03:30

It is stunning that NaMo is setting the agenda for the congress and it's supporters.
Previously congis were in the forefront- keeping up attacks on bjp and others in almost everything including corruption.
BJP in particular in backfoot.

Since the ascent of NaMo - he has single handedly hijacked very plank of congis.
Now congis are used to distorting NaMo speeches and trying to fix him.
They seem bereft of ideas.

NaMo talks only good things which India needs- in a very constructive way.
Congis OTOH talk about destruction of India.

IOW NaMo exudes positive energy
Congis generate negative energy.

muraliravi · Post by **muraliravi** » 15 Jul 2013 04:02

fanne wrote:Here is my theory on Congress success. the biggest group in India is 'poor'. It is not forward caste, of Dalits or even minorities or Hindi speaking or Tamil. I believe after 1999 loss to ABV, someone in Congress figured this out, that to win election, they have to concentrate on the poor. Now I do credit Congress with knowing the pulse of the people as they have kicked out good leaders long ago (and for all CT theory walla, figure out who is running the show).There first round of winning this election on some kind of 'poor' manipulation was the Onion case. That proved that the theory worked in practice. They perfected that art during 2004 and then further in 2009, NEREGA(2004) and Food Bill are step in that direction. Plus probably they have the biggest database of all daily wages worker, contractors controlling them. This is where most black money is spent.
Now my prediction for 2014 is simple, Middle class may ditch Cong (but funny thing is probably in 2009 also they were not with Con anyway, please see urban poll by Nielson just before 2009, BJP still led congress, however results were different). I believe the x factor is this poor people who are very well managed by cong. Till BJP somehow breaks into that, tough luck. Remember in India you have to win 27% of popular vote to make govt).

You can break that jinx in many ways.

1. Elections in India are not presidential, so congress does not have an en-masse poor vote across. Why do poor people in MP, Chat, Jharkhand, Bihar ditch congress.

2. States like karnataka and Maharashtra are games of alliance. If BJP can set that right, they will win there too.

3. Modi's trick will be to bring more like minded voters to the booth.

My answers may not have been coherent, but the essence is that it is not like congress has a block of poor people voting for it. I mean if NREGA was so great, why did karnataka, chattisgarh and Jharkhand vote overwhelmingly for BJP in 2009. I have come to the conclusion that the only predictions that will work for India are seat by seat surveys. No overall congress food wave or Modi wave. At best Modi can help rejuvenate the karyakartas to bring voters to booth and choose good candidates and go for the right alliances (and these are no ordinary things).

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 15 Jul 2013 04:10

Karan M wrote: Modi, Chauhan, Parrikar seem to be the rare breed who have managed both development & their regular political schedules, which is what makes them successful. Might be other CMs too (JJ comes to mind), but the INC seems to have become focused purely on winning elections and ignoring development. Question is how long will this continue? The middle class is slowly waking up, despite the efforts of the MSM to keep them tame, docile and "secular".

I look at this from a generational point of view. Modi winning would be a feather in the cap or even a fluke. Say like India winning the 1983 World Cup. In 1984, West Indies came home and thrashed India left, center and right. Winning an event is important and has its own characteristics, however Indian cricket over the years became more solid and competitive. Modi winning will inspire and motivate other like minded people.

Modi is an idea or like a young sapling. To begin with, not all seeds see the daylight. Of the ones that germinate, not many grow in to the full potential. Saplings are destroyed by the harsh climate or animals (including humans). We have had so many leaders, but the time was just not right. Call it the growing pain, India had to go through 6-7 decades of pain. Now it sputters, stalls, starts, stops but keeps moving. Once the engine kicks in fully, then the vehicle is ready to go.

Modi is not the silver bullet, nor he would be able to solve all the problems. However, he is the best India has now. Say, we arbitrarily assign an expectation of 50% on Modi delivering what he promises, the rest of the politicians are like 5-10% only. There are a few other like mentioned here who might be in the 40-50% range as well. But there can be only one PM

And a Maharajah has to let the other Rajahs know that he respects them, yet stake the claim of being the Maharajah.

Vajapayee, Narasimha Rao and others made dents in the glass ceiling, Modi might break it. If not he will create a big crack. Definitely he has influenced both BJP and INC to think differently. For some time even Nitish was caught into development model, until his vote-bank calculations kicked in. If Modi does not succeed now, India just has to wait for another charismatic leader people trust and like. The frequency of such leaders will increase. There might even be an INC leader

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 15 Jul 2013 04:28

Agree but this generational change business just shortchanges India and frustrates all those who are living in the now, and need more than just hope that tomorrow will be better. The INC is basically a group of crooks/power brokers who have subverted the entire state to work for their benefit. This was quickly understood by other regional parties who aped them and now several run their states likewise. Unless the entire system is given a big thrashing and rooted out, they will conspire to ensure a Modi remains a one-off and his idea/s never really take hold. Actually, we should thank our stars that the family's corruption and incompetence has made even our oh so liberal/secular/i am well off so why bother junta in India (whom one interacts with daily) realize that their ivory tower's are now under threat, thanks to INC mismanagement. Otherwise, if the INC was like the Chinese communist party, delivering on showpiece development, while retaining their criminal behavior and otherwise destroying the country from within, they'd still get a full free pass & people like Modi would have no chance.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 15 Jul 2013 05:17

Diggy Raja defeated BJP just immediately after Babri demolition. That is his significant achievement outside onion crisis etc. I call it significant because the victory of INC in a very hindu minded state during the ram temple wave. He has overseen the worst communal riots of MP. Ask any police officer of that day and he will tell the true story of Diggy Raja. If at all if you want call something as organized pograms against Muslims in India, the communal riots that happened during Diggy't time will be one of those.

fanne · Post by **fanne** » 15 Jul 2013 05:51

diggy won 2nd time in 1999 (years after demolition). He had massively lost LS election just a year ago, and would loose LS election again within an year. That shows how popular congress was.
As to poor people, who are massively 70% of the population, congress cannot win all of them with limited fun (for that you need good governance). Congress wins by getting 27% votes. Out of this 27% 10% are ideological votes (call them secular). It concentrates on enough through largess, this is the secret sauce that makes congress seat go to 206 when one is predicting 130 seats.
In my opinion, Con focuses on displayed poors, the one that have gone from Gorakhpur to Mumbai (as prince said) or from Patna to Delhi. They are highly dependent on extra cash and support system (throug real estate contractors). They can also be found in Kanpur (people who have flocked to Kanpur from say Faizabad, or to Gwalior from Satra). As Vashundra is saying in Rajasthan, take there money (as it is yours anyway), but vote for us. Maybe this will work.

muraliravi · Post by **muraliravi** » 15 Jul 2013 06:11

^^^ good for bjp if they follow vasundhara's strategy. But the funny thing is that the money is not theirs. It damn well belongs to the taxpayers who are funding these nonsensical programs. But of course bjp cannot say that in public

sooraj · Post by **sooraj** » 15 Jul 2013 07:48

From Rediff

Snippet from Delhi's power corridors: Bahujan Samaj Party MP Vijay Bahadur Singh greeting Gujarat Chief Minister Narendra Modi seems like a planned strategy. BJP President Rajnath Singh has had three rounds of discussions with Singh, a sure-winning candidate, to get him to the BJP.
Singh, the brother-in-law of former Union Minister Bhanu Pratap Singh, may resign as Member of Parliament to join BJP. The buzz is that may happen before the Monsoon session of Parliament.

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 15 Jul 2013 08:06

I posted this in Internal security thread on Strategic forum. Don't miss General Bakshi and ex-RAW RSN Singh

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 15 Jul 2013 08:10

Reporter didn't know what hit him.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 15 Jul 2013 08:32

Murugan · Post by **Murugan** » 15 Jul 2013 09:07

Atri wrote:This trend of singing complete Vande Mataram seems to be picking up. It happened twice today. They sang it completely, with the famous "Tvam hi durga dashapraharana dharini" and "Tomarai protima gadi mandire mandire"...

If it picks up as he travels across desh, wonderful I say.. So many taboos being broken, if that happens.. I so wish, that happens...

Atri-ji, Pandit Omkarnath Thakur's Full Vande Mataram

http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&featu ... 5BJSmf-a74

A function was organised on the eve of Indian Independence to celebrate that auspicious moment (mid night at parliament). Sardar Vallabhbhai Patel sent pt. Omkarnath Thakur a wireless message (he was in Chennai) to sing Vande Mataram there. Pt. Omkarnath replied that he would sing full- 22 line song.

In 1923, his guru pt. Vishnu Digambar Paluskar was about to sing Vande Mataram at Kakinada adhiveshan of Congress, he was doing that since Congress Adhiveshan at 1915, Maulana Mohammad Ali who was presiding the conference tried to stop him, supported by his brother Shaukat Ali. 'Since the song praised Hinduism' according to them, it should not be sung on this dais was what they said. Reacting very strongly Pandit Paluskar made them hear that this is a public meeting and not the place of worship of the Muslim religion. Those who object may very well leave the convention and abort, Panditji said, and thereafter rehearsed the full song.

Sardar Patel agreed. He left Chennai by a special plane to reach Delhi. He sang Vande Mataram mid night at the parliament and his song was again broadcasted by Akashvandi at morning 6:30 AM.

Arunkumar · Post by **Arunkumar** » 15 Jul 2013 09:33

Sushupti wrote:Reporter didn't know what hit him.

Most funny was when he said "join hands with ndtv that will help you..."

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 15 Jul 2013 09:39

we need a party full of modilets to handle DDM.

Ramesh · Post by **Ramesh** » 15 Jul 2013 10:07

In his address to students at ferguson college, Modi while giving example of use of research in US gave example of foreign relation between US and Tibbet. Was it just off the cuff example or a subtle hint on foreign policy?

suryag · Post by **suryag** » 15 Jul 2013 10:13

yes it was very interesting, did he mean taiwan instead of tibet or did he say tibet intentionally we would never know

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 15 Jul 2013 10:18

talking about tibet, had a interesting interaction with a Tibet monk in the monarchy about ubuntu linux , in some linux forum

Malayappan · Post by **Malayappan** » 15 Jul 2013 10:58

fanne wrote:diggy won 2nd time in 1999 (years after demolition). He had massively lost LS election just a year ago, and would loose LS election again within an year. That shows how popular congress was.

MP is a very psephologically sensitive state. Vote share gap was in particular very narrow in those two years. In 1993 Cong got 40.7 % to BJP's 38.8, while in 1998 Cong got 40.6% to BJP's 39.3% DS' win in 1998 happened with just 1.3% lead. Election management in that state is very crucial!

suryag · Post by **suryag** » 15 Jul 2013 11:00

Diggy is now asking NaMo for his definition of Secularism, congies shouldnt fall into this trap of debate with NaMo(debating with NaMo is like handing out their Musharraf on a porcelain plate) if they have any chance it is only with talking about ishrat jahaan or 2002 riots

sooraj · Post by **sooraj** » 15 Jul 2013 12:19

from rediff news

Yashwant Sinha: More Modi speaks, attention gets diverted from Cong's misgovernance : BJP senior leader Yashwant Sinha warned his party that Narendra Modi's controversial statements will shift focus from corruption. He said that the more Modi speaks the attention gets diverted from Congress's misgovernance. "The Modi baiters have a clear game plan. The more he speaks. The more controversy he will create. The attention will shift from misgovernance and corruption to what happened more than 11 years ago in Gujarat. It will be a grave mistake to allow Congress change the agenda and force debate on its own terms," Sinha said.

Meanwhile, here's what Congress MP Shashi Tharoor tweeted on the episode.
"Modi says we "hide behind the burqa of secularism". Preferable, surely, to the khaki shorts of intolerance&hatred that he now tries to hide?"

Manish Tiwari hits out at Modi with Kutte ke bachcha tweet : And the puppy wars continue. Congress spokesperson Manish Tiwari tweets this morning: "The Veil of Secularism is inclusive while wheels of communalism consider Libertarians as KUTTE KA Baccha - PUPPY to be crushed under their SUVs. IF KUTTE KA BACCHA- PUPPY comes under your car u hv 2options cuddle &treat it or again crush it What would u call a man who does the Latter.

Gujarat CM Narendra Modi was asked in an interview with Reuters whether he regretted the violence in the aftermath of the 2002 Gujarat riots.

This is what Modi said: If "someone else is driving a car and we're sitting behind, even then if a puppy comes under the wheel, will it be painful or not? Of course it is. If I'm a chief minister or not, I'm a human being. If something bad happens anywhere, it is natural to be sad."

Arjun · Post by **Arjun** » 15 Jul 2013 12:43

sooraj wrote:Meanwhile, here's what Congress MP Shashi Tharoor tweeted on the episode.
"Modi says we "hide behind the burqa of secularism". Preferable, surely, to the khaki shorts of intolerance&hatred that he now tries to hide?"

This is a lightbulb moment: Has Modi finally found a fitting retort to that perennial Leftist epithet of 'chaddiwala' with 'burqawali' ?

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 15 Jul 2013 13:25

Maken slams Modi, says burqa of secularism is better than nakedness of communalism

Don't bother reading the ($)hit-piece that follows.

Point is this: - Cong is pushing lightweights and nobodies like Maken, Thar00r and Manish Tewari into "taking on" Modi's statements. Some sorta "==" can then presumably be establishments between these nobodies and NM himself.

The Dilli nobodies are trying to exploit NM's name, fame to build themselves a higher visibility, clearly.

Well, the Gohils and Modhwadias in Guj have also tried this little trick repeatedly for ages and failed. Simply because NM refused to bite the bait. Period.

Something similar shall happen with this new bunch of "I'll taken on NM" jokers in Dilli as well. Or so I hope.

kish · Post by **kish** » 15 Jul 2013 13:44

These guys are really getting desperate. Its like Dhoni Vs Sri Lankan Team

The entire congress team and their side kicks against one man.

Sagarika Ghose ‏@sagarikaghose 30m

Tonight on @face_the_people : Modi and Muslims: will there always be a trust deficit? 10.30pm CNNIBN

It is really getting funny.

What does she ask the panelist to discuss? It has been discussed again and again for the past 10 years or more.

May be she will say, "We will discuss the same thing what we discussed in 2006".

prahaar · Post by **prahaar** » 15 Jul 2013 13:45

INC strategy seems to keep relentless attack on NM in the hope that he slips once and the mud sticks. Until now its not succeeded. But it is applying brute force technique and is aided by all arms.

Manish_Sharma · Post by **Manish_Sharma** » 15 Jul 2013 13:51

Huge silent scam by shiela dixit :

In the middle of night, these trucks move around in delhi cleaning delhi roads this way

First time I saw it was december last year, then in may this year again last night. All 3 different seasons.

All it does is leave a very thin trail of brush marks of 1 feet width with very very little wetness first on the left side corner of the road and then right side corner of the road. While middle 80% of road is left as it is. The work is finished the truck leaves for next road, wasting precious diesel

precious water

and Parmaatma knows how much of our money shiela-sonia gang has eaten up in this deal importing them from europe/US.

Strange to see the congi a$$ lickers from banglore promising people "that when 2014 cong will come back they'll get rid of NAC jokers", while cursing the common delhi people, celebrating on weather caused misery against common people of delhi. Disgusting!!!

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 15 Jul 2013 14:07

Our man Manoj Kureel at it again...

Very interesting the way and will with which NM seems to have recaptured the "Hindu nationalist" slogan.... its a tricky thing, though.

Coz technically, Hindu + nationalist != Hindu nationalist. The latter implies some sort of allegiance to the ideal of a "Hindu nation".

However, luckily, uniquely perhaps in the case of Hinduism, a "Hindu nation" such as it is is perfectly compatible with our constitutionally enshrined values of democracy, republicanism, secularism, pluralism, liberty and (gasp!) even socialism.

So I doubt it matters very much whether I am nationalist Hindu or a Hindu nationalist. Hinduism allows a commutative property to enter that equation. Only. Jai ho and other disclaimers.

panduranghari · Post by **panduranghari** » 15 Jul 2013 14:31

SwamyG wrote: It has become a staple even in some of the orthodox brahmin families in the south.

Its staple part of my family in England too.

member_20317 · Post by **member_20317** » 15 Jul 2013 14:49

Hari ji,

IMO the wordings cannot matter in our case being a different set of people with different rules for processing information. This exception will per force flow into our understanding of foreign languages too. Our understanding of language comes from Hindi+Other Vernaculars which in turn is based partly on Sanskrit. For example 'Indian Muslims' and 'North Indians' have not hyphenated identities in sociological terms, per our colloquial understanding. And because of this understanding we actually use these in our normal interaction.

Following are fully formed ideas and sentences of the same without any sociological baggage:
APJ Kalam is an Indian Muslim we are all proud off.
Indian Muslims are susceptible to Islamic propaganda due to....
North Indians are not any less or more Indians then other Indians but they _l_ody curse a lot more than others.
I am an Indian Hindu == I am an Indian and a Hindu == I am a Hindu and an Indian == I am a Hindu Indian.

The matter is particularly evident in the usage of 'cha' in sanskrit and its substitutes in various Indian languages.

Starting a sentence with an 'And' is at best an innovation and so would be using it more then once in the same list. With our methodology these innovations are very well accepted. Chalta hai! I guess.

Language is very much dependent on the user and unlike technology where the original technocrat is presumed to be the best most comprehensive source of knowledge, language may have more then one way of handling matters, all of them being valid.

A usage decried in US may not be relevant in India. Americans had a different history of race discrimination, so this hyphenation may be a big deal for them. In India on the other hand the challenge that a Hindu communalist would throw at an estranged minority guy, is that of their ignorance of common history.

Added later : In fact the challenge that a Hindu Nationalist throws at his competitors is about the nation. This coming with the clear confidence in the number and strengths of Hindus in India.

Added later still : You notice how our languages have 'matras'. We basically make changes around 'akshar' but the sanctity of akshar remains. Which is not the case in English. So at a certain point the user in us will begin to manipulate the objects as he sees fit.

Manish_Sharma · Post by **Manish_Sharma** » 15 Jul 2013 14:52

SwamyG wrote:If Modi does not succeed now, India just has to wait for another charismatic leader people trust and like. The frequency of such leaders will increase. There might even be an INC leader

Wrong there can never be such a INC leader because of dienasty.

1. Wikileaks informed Rahul gandhi saying to US diplomat that 'we feel no threat from LeT etc. but from Saffron Terrorism.' Now this can be denied as CT that he may never have said that but =

2. On becoming rahul's general secretary home minister chidu made the comments 'Saffron Terrorism', only to please rahul.

3. On rahul's becoming vice-president home minister shinde again said 'hindu terrorism', only to please rahul.

4. Here is mentioned why conParty can never have a leader like modi: http://goo.gl/Aebi3

Yet, I am a little uneasy when I see how much Christianity is taking over India under the reign of Sonia Gandhi :

according to a 2001 census, there are about 2.34 million Christians in India ; not even 2,5% of the nation, a negligible amount.

Yet there are today five Christian Chief ministers in Nagaland, Mizoram, Meghalaya, Kerala and Andhra Pradesh.

One should add that the majority of politicians in Sonia Gandhi’s closed circle are either Christians or Muslims. She seems to have no confidence in Hindus.

Ambika Soni, a Christian, is General Secretary of the Congress and a very powerful person, with close access to Sonia Gandhi. Oscar Fernandes is Union Programme Implementation Minister. Margaret Alwa is the eminence grise of Maharasthra.

Karnataka is virtually controlled by AK Anthony, whose secretaries are all from the Southern Christian association. Valson Thampu, a Hindu hater, is Chairman NCERT curriculum Review Committee, John Dayal, another known Hindu baiter, has been named by Sonia Gandhi in the National Integration Council ; and Kancha Ilaya, who hates Hindus, is being allowed by the Indian Government to lobby with the UN and US Congress so that caste discrimination in India is taken-up by these bodies. ( One can also add to list Ajit jogi, and Digvijay Singh both christian converts & also Pranoy Roy, his niece Arundhati ‘suzanna’ roy )
-François Gautier

In short congrez is 'pro imperium' and 'anti PIF'.

5. Anyway without dienasty congis will break the party into many pieces, like the ego clash of Arjun Singh against PVNR, it'll be gulam nabi azad vs digvijay singh and so on....