J&K News and Discussion-2011

sum · Post by **sum** » 25 Jul 2013 16:03

^^ Just 180 militants??

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 25 Jul 2013 19:43

Right on cue Reuters stirs the pot

In Pakistan, Kashmir becomes new rallying cry

They can cry themselves hoarse. What is new about that?

Anindya · Post by **Anindya** » 26 Jul 2013 21:40

Star Investigation: Federal audit raises concern that Canadian charity funded terror

Ottawa fears several thousands of dollars went to supporting the Hizbul Mujahideen — a militant group that seeks the secession of Kashmir from India.

The federal charity watchdog is now threatening to revoke the charity status of Mississauga’s ISNA (Islamic Society of North America) Development Foundation.

A Canada Revenue Agency audit revealed the foundation shipped more than $280,000 to a Pakistan-based agency, cash the government fears went to supporting the Hizbul Mujahideen — a militant group that seeks the secession of Kashmir from India.

The foundation “facilitated the transfer of resources that may have been used to support the efforts of a political organization . . . and its armed wing,” the CRA said in a letter to the charity outlining its findings, obtained by the Star.

Federal auditors say money raised by the ISNA Development Foundation may have been sent to armed militants overseas. The charity's directors accuse Mohammad Ashraf, shown here, of running the organization like his own fiefdom. zoom

“Canada’s commitment to combating terrorism extends to preventing organizations with ties to terrorism from benefiting from the tax advantages of charitable registration,” the CRA letter said.

The charity’s acting president dismissed the suggestion that the money it gave to the Pakistan-based Relief Organization for Kashmiri Muslims may have landed in the wrong hands because of poor oversight.

“The money did not go to any groups who were freedom fighters,” G. Nabi Chaudhary said. “We made sure that all of the money the charity sent to those organizations was spent on the needy, to help the misplaced. We had people on the ground who were working with the relief organizations.”

But the charity failed to show auditors any documents proving it had control over how the money was spent, as the tax agency requires.

Contradicting Chaudhary’s assurance the money was carefully spent, the charity’s board members told auditors the funds were sent abroad with “no strings.”

In fact, the sole scrap of evidence the charity said it had on how its money was spent overseas — photographs appearing to show relief work being done on behalf of the ISNA Development Foundation — was “altered,” auditors said.

A forensic examination determined the pictures of men performing relief work with a banner depicting ISNA Development Foundation in the background had been doctored after they were taken, specifically around the banner.

The charity’s directors told auditors their knowledge of the relief work done in Kashmir is based solely on these photographs.

“Once the money left Canada, (the foundation) had no control over the money, how it was spent or what it was to be spent on,” board members said, according to the CRA.

The CRA’s audit probed the charity’s operations for a three-year period, from 2007 through 2009. Since then, the foundation has sent more than $80,000 to Pakistan.

member_26255 · Post by **member_26255** » 26 Jul 2013 21:53

Encounter In North Kashmir, 3 Militants Killed In Ongoing Operation

http://www.kashmirlife.net/encounter-in ... operation/

Three militants were killed in an ongoing encounter with army in Uri sector along the Line of Control in North Kashmir’s Baramulla district, official sources told GNS on Wednesday.

They said that acting on a tip off, troops of 3 DOGRA cordoned off the Kundari forest area near LoC in Uri sector in Baramulla district.

As such, the army while intensifying the combing operation, the group of militants who might have recently infiltrated opened indiscriminate fire upon troops, ensuing a massive gunfight, sources said. “Three militants were killed so far,” sources said, adding that the operation is still in progress and the bodies of the militants could be seen on next side of the LoC.

Divulging the details, GOC 19 Division VG Khandare told Global News Service that soldiers of 03 DOGRA Regiment last night witnessed the movement of suspected people in the area of Kundari Nalla on the LoC. “The suspected people were three to four in number,” the officer said, adding they were asked to stop, but they opened heavy fire. The operation is in progress and the area has a difficult terrain, he added.

The Army officer said that a thorough search operation is going on in the area with the help of reinforcement.

Defence sources said that following the infiltration attempt, the vigil along the LoC has been intensified and combing operations have been started. “Soldiers have increased vigil along the LoC as intelligence reports suggest that groups of militants are waiting to infiltrate into the Kashmir Valley.”

They said the soldiers are carrying out combing and search operations through the dense forests in Keran, Macchil, Handwara, Kupwara and Gurez sectors of the Valley which have emerged as favored infiltration routes for militants over the past couple of years.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 27 Jul 2013 02:02

Why fear? They knowingly allowed such funding and pretend to fear!

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 27 Jul 2013 03:21

Surya wrote:Did this Shia Sunni rioting in J&K make it to any other main media outlets

http://www.firstpost.com/india/why-a-fe ... 83451.html

If it's Muslim vs. Hindu or Sikh clash, it's covered quite well with ample hints about "minority and majority communities". But Shia-Sunni strife hardly gets any coverage except some short column during Muharram. Maybe rise of media houses like Firstpost will change things.

hulaku · Post by **hulaku** » 27 Jul 2013 09:06

Infact last year during November December there were major confrontations between Shias and Sunnis over some religious inscription on a Shoe.

Curfew had to be imposed in many parts of Srinagar and the Valley.

http://www.nationalturk.com/en/indefini ... hmir-28994

arun · Post by **arun** » 28 Jul 2013 11:56

X Posted from the Islamism thread.

The hypocritical behaviour of a Senior Mohammadden Cleric namely the Grand Mufti of Jammu and Kashmir, Bashiruddin Ahmad, caught on camera:

J&K Grand Mufti, who said music was 'unIslamic', seen enjoying songs

arun · Post by **arun** » 28 Jul 2013 12:00

Surya wrote:Did this Shia Sunni rioting in J&K make it to any other main media outlets

http://www.firstpost.com/india/why-a-fe ... 83451.html

This episode of Green on Green Intra-Mohammadden religion inspired sectarian violence during the Mohammadden holy month of Ramadan did at the very least make the Times of India and I had posted the TOI article in the Islamism thread:

arun wrote:Green on Green Intra-Mohammadden religion based sectarian violence pitting Shia and Sunni during the month of Ramadan aka Ramazan aka Ramzan which adherents of Mohammaddenism consider holy, in the Budgam district of Jammu & Kashmir:

Curfew imposed in parts of J&K's Budgam district after sectarian clashes

kish · Post by **kish** » 30 Jul 2013 20:29

4 militants killed as Army foils infiltration bids in Kashmir

Four heavily-armed militants were killed as Army troops scuttled two separate infiltration bids along the Line of Control (LoC) in north Kashmir on Tuesday.

All the four militants, attempting to sneak into Kashmir Valley from across the border, were killed in a fierce gunbattle in Macchil sector of Kupwara district, a defence spokesman said.

Troops guarding the LoC observed movement of militants in the wee hours and challenged them, he said.

The ultras opened fire in an attempt to escape.

However, the troops fired back and in the ensuing encounter, four militants were killed, the spokesman said, adding a huge cache of arms and ammunition were recovered from the scene of the encounter.

The operation in the area was still on when last reports were received, the spokesman said.

Another counter-infiltration operation was in progress in Hafruda forests of nearby Handwara area in the district, he said.

Army sources said helicopters were used to assist the ground troops to keep track of the infiltrating column of militants.

member_19686 · Post by **member_19686** » 30 Jul 2013 23:55

Shekhar Kapur’s TV show Pradhanmantri is disappointing, outrageous

By Hari Om on July 30, 2013

This is a first of two part series.

Shekhar Kapur’s television show Pradhanmantri is not just disappointing but also outrageous in many respects. Just watch the episode on the accession of Jammu and Kashmir to India on October 26, 1947, (telecasted on July 27, 2013, between 10-11 pm on ABP News and repeated on July 28 at the same time) and you will at once endorse the view that Shekhar Kapur has distorted and suppressed many facts, murdered history and presented things in a fashion calculated to present the otherwise well-known India-baiter, fanatic and secessionist National Conference (NC) president Sheikh Abdullah as ‘secular’, ‘socialist’ and ‘an outstanding pro-India Muslim leader’ and paint Maharaja of Jammu & Kashmir, Hari Singh as villain, communal, dictatorial, pro-Independence and irresponsible.

Shekhar Kapur, who rose to popularity in 1994 with the Hindi language movie Bandit Queen based on the life of dacoit and infamous Indian outlaw Phoolan Devi, is a widely acclaimed film director, producer and actor. It was expected of him that he will not distort or suppress facts as ideologically-driven historians, especially the secular fundamentalist historians, always do to undermine Indian culture, Indian civilisation and Indian way of life. It is sad that he walked into the trap of secular fundamentalist historians, writers and commentators and did what he did to his show.

Shekhar Kapur was bound to fail to present an accurate picture of facts about the accession of Jammu & Kashmir to India, Hari Singh and Sheikh Abdullah because his advisors were none other than controversial Mushirul-Hasan, MJ Akbar and Qamar Ali. These secular fundamentalists succeeded in influencing the opinion of Kapur to the extent that he hailed Sheikh Abdullah not only secular and socialist but also an ardent believer in the concept of India and a patriot of great order. He again and again said that Sheikh Abdullah believed in Hindu-Muslim-Sikh unity and asserted and reasserted that the Sheikh reassured the minority communities that he would protect them against exclusion by the majority (Muslims) and that they would be safe and secure under his leadership. It is obvious that Shekhar Kapur neither took any pain to understand Sheikh Abdullah and the nature of his leadership nor did he try to understand what the NC leader actually stood for.

Sheikh Abdullah was a leader but of one section of Kashmiri society. He had no support-base whatever in Jammu and Ladakh, not even in those areas of Jammu province and Ladakh where the Muslims were quite numerous. The fact of the matter is that the people of Jammu and Ladakh, including Muslims, barring a few disgruntled elements here and there, hated and despised Sheikh Abdullah. But Shekhar Kapur did not say a word on the inter-regional relations as well as relations between Sheikh Abdullah and people of Jammu and Ladakh, which housed more population and constituted more than 85 per cent of the State’s land area.

Paradoxically, Shekhar Kapur also suppressed the fact that Sheikh Abdullah as an Emergency administrator had not allowed the non-Muslims from Pakistan-Occupied Jammu & Kashmir (POJK), including Hindus and Sikhs, to migrate to the Valley in the wake of the Pakistani attack on Muzaffarabad, part of Kashmir division. They had to migrate to Jammu province or other parts of India. Sheikh Abdullah not only did not allow the victims of two nation concept and fanatics to enter the Valley but also persuaded Nehru to announce ceasefire at a time when the advancing Indian Army was about to evict the Pakistani invaders from the Indian territories. Sheikh Abdullah did all this to rule the State unhindered. (Prem Shankar Jha, rival versions in history). Had the Indian Army liberated POJK and Gilgit-Baltistan, the State power would have been in the hands of non-Kashmiris, including people of Jammu and Ladakh and people of POJK and Gilgit-Baltistan, all non-Kashmiri, and there would have been no Kashmir problem. Announcement of ceasefire was nothing but the immediate fallout of a conspiracy hatched by Nehru and the Sheikh against India and non-Kashmiri population, vehemently opposed to Sheikh. He did not say a word on this historical fact.

Uncontested communalism hurting Kashmiri Hindus

As if all this was not enough to tell the non-Muslim minorities that they were unwanted in Kashmir, Sheikh Abdullah as Wazir-e-Azam evolved and implemented administrative, economic and religious policies which set-in-motion a process of migration of Kashmiri Hindus from their original habitat, land of Vitasta (Jhelum). Thousands of Kashmiri Hindus migrated to Jammu and other parts of the country after Nehru transferred political power from Jammu to Sheikh Abdullah in October 1947 using devious means. It is intriguing that instead of visiting the refugee camps in Jammu province for an on-the-spot assessment, Shekhar Kapur allowed himself to be dictated by Hasan, Akbar and Ali and portrayed what he portrayed in his controversial Pradhanmantri. It would be unfair on his part to suppress the fact that Kashmir which was once a 100 per cent non-Muslim State; is today almost 100 per cent Muslim.

It needs to be underlined that it was Kashmir which was added to the Jammu kingdom in March 1846 under the Treaty of Amritsar, signed between the British and Dogra Maharaja Gulab Singh, and not the vice-versa. But Shekhar Kapur did not even once mention this fact. On the contrary, he provoked the people of Jammu and Ladakh by repeatedly describing the State of Jammu & Kashmir as Kashmir State, Maharaja of Jammu & Kashmir as Maharaja of Kashmir and people of the State as people of Kashmir. I will write on this subject in a day or two and it will be based on what transpired in the Indian Constituent Assembly on May 27, 1949. As of now, suffice it to say that Nehru and his men had conspired against the people of Jammu and Ladakh to ensure that Sheikh Abdullah, whose anti-Jammu credentials were too well-known and ruled the roost unhindered.

Article 370 divides, Article 371 empowers people

I am not an admirer of Rajas and Maharajas or Princes and Nawabs, but it has to be admitted that Jammu & Kashmir was one of the four most progressive and liberal Princely States and Hari Singh was a great democrat, secular and liberal ruler. The other three progressive Princely States were Travencore and Mysore in South India and Baroda in Western India. Maharaja Hari Singh, like his predecessors, introduced revolutionary changes in almost all the branches of administration, including judiciary, revenue, agriculture, land, irrigation, education, health and police; established rule of law by bringing all sections of society, including Brahmins and Rajputs, and all communities under the criminal justice system; and ensured to the maximum possible extent that no community suffered from discrimination on any ground whatsoever. But more than that, he established Praja Sabha (Legislative Assembly) in 1934 to democratise the State’s polity by associating people of all communities and all regions with the law-making processes and established Board of Judicial Advisors charged with the responsibility of hearing appeals against the Jammu & Kashmir High Court of Judicature, which he himself established in 1928.

Even far more significant was his landmark decision to grant proprietary rights to the people. It is a matter of grave concern that Shekhar Kapur did not give what was due to Hari Singh.

(To be concluded)

http://www.niticentral.com/2013/07/30/s ... 11653.html

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 31 Jul 2013 00:14

Secularism to unite as an excuse ignore inhuman intolerance against even refugees. Also see mistreatment of raja Hari Singh.

The most interesting aspect is how Hari Singh very had to face barbarians from across border even after liberal rule and today native Pandits and Hindu refugees are not able to enjoy the fruits of raja Hari Singh administration's hardwork and liberal policies. A case in point is that property rights given to people at the time but now Indians can't have property in Kashmir.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 31 Jul 2013 01:34

I think soon Jammu and Ladakh states have to be considered to curb Abdullah clan's monoploy.

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 01 Aug 2013 12:55

Another cheap salvo fired the torch-bearer of secularism in India "The Hindu"

.
In Kashmir’s riot zone, only a Pandit’s house remained safe
Now gentlemen, what does the title convey? That there are Pandits who are still holding their forts in Kashmir? That terrorism is not a big problem out there, and that Pandits are having a gala time?

Well this article is about a recent "Green on Green" riot between the Shia and Sunni gangs in Kashmir. Instead of stating that in black & white, 'The Hindu' spins a funny headline. The Shias and Sunnis were at each other throats, and this gave some breathing space to the Pandits.

And some where in the article is a statement which clearly explains why the Pandit remained there.

Pandits in the adjoining Sebdan fled in fear to Jammu in the dead of night. Schoolteacher Avatar Krishen Ganjoo stayed put as he had little resources. For years, he lived as the weakest, the most vulnerable. Even when the Pandits were massacred in hordes at Sangrampora, Wandhama and Nandimarg, the Ganjoos stood their ground.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 04 Aug 2013 09:47

One of those rare moments I agree with TOIlet and its cricket related. I am not for special treatment, but on this useless Zimbabwe tour, especially after the series was wrapped up, the team management could have taken a strategic decision to include Parvez Rasool, young kid from the valley. Instead of suck!ing up to ungrateful scum bags like vegetarian terrorist and harried rats, going out of its way to boost Parvez Rasool's confidence would have done a world of good for India also. Wonder if team management is capable of such strategic thinking

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/spor ... 586005.cms

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 08 Aug 2013 13:41

CRamS wrote:One of those rare moments I agree with TOIlet and its cricket related.

The Hindu also echoed the same sentiments. But for me I felt it is again request to appease the terrorist Kashmiris (which we never get tired off). If Kashmiris want special benefits on each and every thing, I feel they need to be taught a lesson - that of living like a normal Indian citizen and not as pampered terrorists. The attitude of Kashmiri Jehadis and their sympathisers have been always "You give an inch, they ask for a mile".

sum · Post by **sum** » 08 Aug 2013 14:58

^^ It was the same guy who refused to wear some jersey ( of RCB i think) in IPL saying his religion doesn't allow endorsing alcohol in any form. So, the guy isnt different from the rest of the "misguided but feeling entitled" youth.

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 09 Aug 2013 18:21

"Two communities clash" - Clashes break out in Kishtwar - 30 injured. Situation quite serious and police forces trying to break up the violence.

member_19686 · Post by **member_19686** » 09 Aug 2013 18:55

Jammu: Curfew in Kishtwar district after clashes
By PTI - JAMMU 09th August 2013 01:53 PM

Curfew was imposed and Army called out in Kishtwar district of Jammu region today following clashes between people belonging to two communities that left at least 15 people injured.

The clashes broke out in Kuleed area and soon spread in the district, police said, adding the two groups indulged in stone-pelting and arson in which 10 shops were set on fire.

Curfew has been imposed in the area, Divisional Commissioner, Jammu, Shant Manu said.

Police and CRPF personnel rushed to the area and used batons and teargas besides firing in the air to disperse the warring mobs gathered in various parts of the district, 226 kms from here.

The situation turned ugly when police was fired upon from homes, the sources said, adding a list of Village Defence Committee members was drawn up quickly so that the arms given to them could be withdrawn.

According to the reports, a group of people, raising anti-national slogans after the Eid prayers, was attacked by another section of people in Kuleed area leading to tension.

Among the injured, one, identified as Rohit Kumar, was hospitalised with a bullet injury in his arm and abdomen.

Besides the shops, a truck and a hotel belonging to a kin of MLC were burnt down in the arson.

Jammu and Kashmir Chief Minister Omar Abdullah directed senior state and civil officials including the Police Chief Ashok Prasad and Chief Secretary Mohammad Iqbal Khandey to rush to the scene and try and control the situation.

http://newindianexpress.com/nation/Jamm ... 726245.ece

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 09 Aug 2013 23:26

So much for Islam being peaceful and majority of muslims being patriots and peace loving. Eid mubarak.

Minority Hindu population of the town were savagely attacked, their shops and houses burnt to ground. According to unconfirmed sources 3 women pilgrims in Machel yatra were kidnapped too.

Some people are saying that it was the local politico's conspiracy to get Village Defence Committees (VDCs) banned. Most of VDCs members are Hindus. So it'll be a double whammy for the beleaguered Hindus of the region.

But Muslims do have first call on resources of the country.

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 10 Aug 2013 18:45

Miscreants rule the roost, free for all in Kishtwar; 2 killed, 63 injured, over 100 shops burnt, damaged

JAMMU, Aug 9 : An indefinite curfew was clamped and Army called out in Kishtwar town and surrounding areas this afternoon after large scale incidents of arson, looting and violence were reported during the day in which two civilians were killed and 63 others were injured, four of them seriously, as a free for all situation prevailed for several hours due to complete collapse of civil and police administration, which gave the miscreants a field day, who indulged in open vandalism razing shops, vehicles and various other commercial establishments to ground.
Twelve bore guns, petrol bottles, lathis and all other available material was used by the mob to set on fire shops, hotels, buses, petrol tankers, trucks, cars and other commercial establishments till 7 pm when Army formally moved and curfew was strictly imposed nearly five hours after it was announced.
Fear psychosis prevailed among the minorities, which could be well gauged from the fact that the injured civilians of the community were not admitted in the District Hospital, which was located in the area dominated by majority community and were instead taken to Army camps. Four of them were sent to Military Hospital, Udhampur in critical condition.
Army staged a flag march in all disturbed areas including Kishtwar town at 7.40 pm resulting into restoration of normalcy but tension prevailed among the minorities, who were frightened following large scale violence unleashed against them by the majority community in the morning leading to massive damage to their property including shops and vehicles.
Surprisingly, the free for all situation in Kishtwar continued even when Minister of State for Home Sajjad Ahmad Kitchloo, who happened to be local MLA of Kishtwar, was present in the town. Locals said the miscreants armed with guns, lathis and patrol bottles moved freely in the town and outskirts torching shops, vehicles and looting property without any check by the police, which acted as mute spectators as they reportedly had been directed not to fire at the mob, sources said.
Though the Army had moved in at around 12 noon in the day, they eventually took charge of the situation around 7.40 after Chief Minister Omar Abdullah spoke to Defence Minister A K Antony at about 5 pm.
Sources said two separate murder cases have been registered at Kishtwar police station in the two killings.
The urchins fired at the houses of minorities or those rushing for safety killing one of them on spot, who has been identified as Arvind Kumar Bhagat, 28, son of Des Raj Bhagat R/o Sangram Bhatta and injuring several others, four of them with deep bullet wounds. The injured with gun shots were identified as Sunil Kumar, 27, Rinku, 18, both residents of Cheerji, Anju Singh, 30 R/o Kuleed and Sandeep Kumar, 15, R/o Dachan.
They were airlifted from Kishtwar to Batote and then shifted in Army Hospital, Udhampur as authorities feared that their admission in the Government Medical College, Jammu would flare up communal trouble.

Divisional Commissioner, Jammu, Shant Manu, who took some questions from media at the all party meeting, admitted one fatal casualty of Arvind Bhagat but said he was yet to gather details of losses to public property. He admitted that curfew was imposed at 12 noon but could be enforced only around 7 pm.
Reliable sources, however, said that trouble erupted after about 1200 people from village Hullar were marching toward Chowgan Ground at around 9.30 am for Eid prayers shouting anti-national and provocative slogans against the minorities. When the procession reached Kuleed Chowk, the minorities objected to the raising of provocative slogans and asked the people to proceed peacefully.
The mob, which appeared to be well equipped and prepared with intentions of violence, reacted immediately and started targeting minorities at Kuleed Mohalla burning and damaging their shops and other property. They also sounded the people, who had gathered at Chowgan Ground. They too rushed towards Kuleed Mohalla and indulged in arson and violence, which soon spread to other markets of Kishtwar town and outskirts within few minutes.

Sources said Kuleed Mohammad market, which had only minority community shops, was nearly razed to ground. Some houses, which had been constructed atop the shops, also suffered damage in the fire.
Sources said the police watched helplessly the miscreants moving around with gun firing at the minorities killing one person and inflicting gun shot wounds on four others. In total, 63 persons were injured including the police personnel.

Injured Hindus couldn't get treatment in civilian hospitals in Kisthwar or even Jammu 100s of kms away which is a Hindu majority city !!! How long till India become another Turkey or Lebanon !

These muslims are more trouble than they are worth. Only culling of these feral pigs can ensure safety of rest of the humanity.

svenkat · Post by **svenkat** » 10 Aug 2013 22:13

Only culling of these feral pigs can ensure safety of rest of the humanity.

Not necessary.Just deny muslims voting rights.Ban Urdu/Haj.Ban muslims from army,civil servicesjudiciary,university professorships/lecturerships.Give them mininimum human rights which are strictly enforced.Take over all historic mosques,rename all muslim city names(Hyderabad,Aligarh).Bring AMUJamia Milia Islamia under Hindu control.Remove Article 370.Give honarary citizenship to distinguished muslims.Ensure this remains under 0.01% of Indian muslim population.Take over all muslim trusts and let GOI decide how the money is to be spent for muslims.Muslims can advise but GOI will decide.

Benefits.
1)BD problem solved.Muslims of BD/India become source of cheap labour .
2)Drives pakhanastan off the edge.
3)Give dejure promotion to dalits.End all benefits to dalits and OBCs.End preferential treatment to any section of society.

member_23692 · Post by **member_23692** » 10 Aug 2013 22:28

svenkat wrote:
Only culling of these feral pigs can ensure safety of rest of the humanity.
Not necessary.Just deny muslims voting rights.Ban Urdu/Haj.Ban muslims from army,civil servicesjudiciary,university professorships/lecturerships.Give them mininimum human rights which are strictly enforced.Take over all historic mosques,rename all muslim city names(Hyderabad,Aligarh).Bring AMUJamia Milia Islamia under Hindu control.Remove Article 370.Give honarary citizenship to distinguished muslims.Ensure this remains under 0.01% of Indian muslim population.

Benefits.
1)BD problem solved.Muslims of BD/India become source of cheap labour .
2)Drives pakhanastan off the edge.
3)Give dejure promotion to dalits.End all benefits to dalits and OBCs.End preferential treatment to any section of society.Muslims become new dalits.Great merit of continuity.

Muslims are citizens of another country(Pakistan) and an enemy country at that - their choice, not Hindus', as they voted by a majority to create a separate state for Muslims of a sub-continent based on the theory that Muslims are culturally different from Hindus, have a different cultural ethos and therefore a different nation.

The rights you outlined for Muslims in India are greater than the rights enjoyed by citizens of a foreign and enemy country, anywhere in the world. For starters, name one place in the world, where citizens of an enemy country are allowed to vote ?

member_26255 · Post by **member_26255** » 10 Aug 2013 22:35

rsangram wrote:
Muslims are citizens of another country(Pakistan) and an enemy country at that - their choice, not Hindus', as they voted by a majority to create a separate state for Muslims of a sub-continent based on the theory that Muslims are culturally different from Hindus, have a different cultural ethos and therefore a different nation.

My belief in the two nation theory is becoming stronger and stronger with the prevailing events. Djinnah was spot on when he postulated
Kufr and Momeen cannot live together; they have different heroes, values, culture and so on. I am very grateful to him for taking all the gay-haadi scum along with him. A fully Hindu rashtra is the only solution for this.

member_19686 · Post by **member_19686** » 10 Aug 2013 22:42

agastya wrote:My belief in the two nation theory is becoming stronger and stronger with the prevailing events. Djinnah was spot on when he postulated
Kufr and Momeen cannot live together; they have different heroes, values, culture and so on. I am very grateful to him for taking all the gay-haadi scum along with him. A fully Hindu rashtra is the only solution for this.

That's where Hindus make a fatal mistake.

In fact many of the most ardent pushers of Partition stayed back & continued their activities with the blessings of Nehru.

Take for example:

Y. KRISHAN (Y.K.) Probationer : Well sir, those who have brought about Partition have been left behind in the partitioned India. The Muslim League had declared that the Hindus and Muslims were two nations and had asked for partition because they feared that the Muslims, being a minority, would suffer oppression and atrocities at the hands of the Hindu majority. Pakistan was to be their homeland where they could live in freedom from tne tyranny of the non-Muslim majority. But lo! and behold! the vast majority of the Muslims of U.P., Bihar, Central Provinces, Bombay, etc. remained behind in India and did not migrate to the homeland (Pakistan) created for them.

P.M.: We never accepted the two-nation theory though we were driven to accept Partition to avoid bloodshed and to achieve independence. We are not a communal State. The Muslims, who have decided to stay in India, are as much honourable citizens of the country as the members of the majority community. They cannot be victimised in the riew situation for their actions and conduct before and at the time of Partition.
We connot and must not live in the past.

Y.K.: True sir, but the immense suffering the people have undergone and the problems the country is facing are the direct result of the past, of the two-nation theory. In fact, Partition has solved no problems; only it has created new ones.

P.M. : You are too young to understand.
The overwhelming majority of the Indian Muslims are politically backward and have been misled by the pernicious and poisonous propaganda of the Muslim League. So it will be wrong to treat the vast majority of Indian Muslims as being responsible for the ills of our country.

Y.K.: True sir, the vast majority has been misled by the two-nation theory. But this does not absolve the Muslim League leadership: they are the authors* of Partition. And yet, the majority of this leadership has also stayed back in India. The Muslims of Pakistan, West Punjab, N.W.F.P.,Sind and Baluchistan, as such, never wanted or asked for Pakistan. In fact, they did not need to.

There was a pause and silence for a couple of, minutes.

Y.K.: The Raja of Mahamudabad, Begum Aizaz Rasul, Raja of Pirpur, Maulana Hasrat Mohani, etc. from U.P., Syed Hossain Imam from Bihar, M. Mohd. Ismail from Madras, etc., to name a few of the host of Muslim League leaders, have stayed back in India though they had actively worked for the creation of Pakistan as the homeland for the Indian Muslims. There is not an iota of justification for such leaders being allowed to stay in India after having got the country partitioned on the basis of the two-nation theory. They ought to have gone to the homeland they asked for and obtained.

There was again a pause.

P.M. Nehru's face was flushed. After a brief silence, he resumed.

P.M. : We cannot abandon the nationalist Muslims who had fought and sacrificed for India's Independence.

Y.K. : But the Congress has already abandoned the true nationalist Muslims, the Khudai Khidmatgars led by the Frontier Gandhi.

P.M. : This was a most painful decision forced on us by the geo-political realities.

Y.K. : I am not sure of the loyalty of the so-called nationalist Muslims after the creation of Pakistan, considering the speeches, ('mischievous and rabble rousing) of the nationalist Muslim leaders (those who were opposed to Partition) like Dr. Syed Mahmud, Maulana Hafizur Rahman (of Jamiat-ul-ulema-e-Hind) etc. at the Lucknow conference of Mussalman.i.Hind'l (Dec. 1947).

P.M. : This is false, mischievous, a canard intended to defame and denigrate the nationalist Muslims who have played a glorious role in India's Independence.

Y.K. : The P.M. must be correct on this point. I have perhaps been wrongly informed. But the basic fact remains that the Muslim League leaders and workers from Western U.P.-Meerut, Moradabad, Aligarh, Saharanpur, etc. organised the riots in Rawalpindi in March, 1947 which set the Punjab ablaze. It was not the work of the local Muslims of Rawalpindi in the initial stages but of the Muslim League leaders from U.P. Is it also not shocking that the Muslim League leaders of Rampur State in U.P. should have launched a violent agitation by setting on fire several Government buildings demanding accession of the Rampur State to Pakistan?

The face of the Prime Minister turned red in anger. He started puffing at his silver cigarette-holder.

At this point I had a very strong urge to recall the advice P.M. Nehru had given to the Kashmiri Pandits in 1945 at a meeting in Sopore in the Kashmir Valley that if non-Muslims wanted to live in Kashmir, they should join the National Conference (which was overwhelmingly a Muslim party) or bid good-bye to the country (Kashmir). But sensing the mood of the Prime Minister I was sullen and kept quiet...

http://janasangh.com/jsart.aspx?stid=415

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 10 Aug 2013 23:14

Surasena wrote:
agastya wrote:My belief in the two nation theory is becoming stronger and stronger with the prevailing events. Djinnah was spot on when he postulated
Kufr and Momeen cannot live together; they have different heroes, values, culture and so on. I am very grateful to him for taking all the gay-haadi scum along with him. A fully Hindu rashtra is the only solution for this.
That's where Hindus make a fatal mistake.

In fact many of the most ardent pushers of Partition stayed back & continued their activities with the blessings of Nehru.

The question has to be asked why did the people who asked for the partition still inside India. ALso why did they ask for partition?
60 years of post partition has shown that one of the main goal was to reduce the size of India and Indian strength in the world. Reducing the influence of Hindus and reducing the expansion of India and Indian culture has been the goal.

member_23692 · Post by **member_23692** » 10 Aug 2013 23:23

Acharya wrote:
The question has to be asked why did the people who asked for the partition still inside India. ALso why did they ask for partition?
60 years of post partition has shown that one of the main goal was to reduce the size of India and Indian strength in the world. Reducing the influence of Hindus and reducing the expansion of India and Indian culture has been the goal.

Agreed 100%. It is obvious, isnt it.

But the question is, why did'nt Hindus know this then and if they did, why did they not resist more ? and if there were traitors among us who collaborated with the enemy, why were they not punished or at least marginalized ? Why were they listened to and followed ? Why are the Hindus not fighting harder today when the conspiracies to not just weaken them, but finish them off are being hatched and executed all around us, and why are they not penalizing, if not punishing the traitors amongst us ? Why are the Hindus putting traitors in power even today, following the traitors and not sweeping them aside via a rising tidal wave ? Are we not heading towards multiple partitions today, not one, if this trend continues ?

Those are the real questions.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 10 Aug 2013 23:37

rsangram wrote:
Acharya wrote:
The question has to be asked why did the people who asked for the partition still inside India. ALso why did they ask for partition?
60 years of post partition has shown that one of the main goal was to reduce the size of India and Indian strength in the world. Reducing the influence of Hindus and reducing the expansion of India and Indian culture has been the goal.

It is obvious, isnt it.

For many Indian born after partition it is not obvious.
Rest of the questions are followup questions

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 10 Aug 2013 23:39

Let Jinnah be among the the first founders of DharamRashta. Indians must accept TNT and proceed from there. There is no other way left except to be guided under the wise words of Maha Adarniya Jinnah and not to be foolled by Nehru's pretentions.

member_23692 · Post by **member_23692** » 11 Aug 2013 00:26

Jhujar wrote:Let Jinnah be among the the first founders of DharamRashta. Indians must accept TNT and proceed from there. There is no other way left except to be guided under the wise words of Maha Adarniya Jinnah and not to be foolled by Nehru's pretentions.

+10000

TWO NATION THEORY ALL THE WAY! THE QUAID IS OUR QUAID-E-AZAM TOO, only in the reverse.

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 11 Aug 2013 01:24

Very clever use of the word "minorities" in that new article Jamwal posted. People in India subconsciously make the connection - "minorities" with Muslims whenever they read the word. Of course, in J&K it is Hindus who are the "minorities". All uber-secular self proclaimed champions of minorities across the country will never raise even a squeak in protest against what is happening in J&K.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 11 Aug 2013 05:44

rsangram wrote: TWO NATION THEORY ALL THE WAY! THE QUAID IS OUR QUAID-E-AZAM TOO, only in the reverse.

+1
All the way from the A*se behind

svenkat · Post by **svenkat** » 11 Aug 2013 11:03

I think it is wrong to demonise ordinary muslims who need to earn a living like everyone else.It is immoral to harass weak people.The problem is with malsis genetic code.We need to sterilise the malignancy by taking appropriate steps.Just sterilise them by depriving them of political power.

Ensure strictest human rights.Mohammedans represent the taamasic and raajasic nature with more than a hint of saatvikness in their DNA.The saatvikness comes to the fore,when they are subdued by superior force.The humanpredicament is not very different elsewhere.Theres the same issues of conservatism,stability,aspirations,age,sickness,birth and death.

What we need to do is kill political leadership of muslims.Let them have social leadership within limits.Let them fraternise with hindus of similar ‘svabhava’ and ‘prakrithi’.Let them have happy,productive lives.But there will be no mullhs,madrassas or organisations of political nature.
Ofcourse,Jammu is different issue.These are more pakjabi than Indian.Danda up their musharaff is the only way to handle them.

member_19686 · Post by **member_19686** » 11 Aug 2013 17:36

svenkat

Who is killing Hindus in Kishtwar if not "ordinary" Muslims?

Who carried out the genocide of Hindus & Sikhs in 1947 if not "ordinary" Muslims?

dada · Post by **dada** » 11 Aug 2013 17:55

# svenkat

muslims make the best slaves & the worst masters
no wonder an islamic political system which mass produces such minds appeals to political brokers

regular selective assassination of the worst leaders every year is the way to manage these people
simply watch all the post prayer speeches of such leaders on youtube
complete mastery over spoken language mixed with religion is a hall mark of these leaders.
the way these leaders manage "MOB PSYCHOLOGY" is something to be studied in depth
they can literally move mobs effortlessly !

note that even in the recent ramban riots , most rioting followed immediately after organised prayers !

Atri · Post by **Atri** » 11 Aug 2013 21:25

Surasena wrote:
Shekhar Kapur’s TV show Pradhanmantri is disappointing, outrageous

By Hari Om on July 30, 2013

This is a first of two part series.

Shekhar Kapur’s television show Pradhanmantri is not just disappointing but also outrageous in many respects. Just watch the episode on the accession of Jammu and Kashmir to India on October 26, 1947, (telecasted on July 27, 2013, between 10-11 pm on ABP News and repeated on July 28 at the same time) and you will at once endorse the view that Shekhar Kapur has distorted and suppressed many facts, murdered history and presented things in a fashion calculated to present the otherwise well-known India-baiter, fanatic and secessionist National Conference (NC) president Sheikh Abdullah as ‘secular’, ‘socialist’ and ‘an outstanding pro-India Muslim leader’ and paint Maharaja of Jammu & Kashmir, Hari Singh as villain, communal, dictatorial, pro-Independence and irresponsible.

Shekhar Kapur, who rose to popularity in 1994 with the Hindi language movie Bandit Queen based on the life of dacoit and infamous Indian outlaw Phoolan Devi, is a widely acclaimed film director, producer and actor. It was expected of him that he will not distort or suppress facts as ideologically-driven historians, especially the secular fundamentalist historians, always do to undermine Indian culture, Indian civilisation and Indian way of life. It is sad that he walked into the trap of secular fundamentalist historians, writers and commentators and did what he did to his show.

Shekhar Kapur was bound to fail to present an accurate picture of facts about the accession of Jammu & Kashmir to India, Hari Singh and Sheikh Abdullah because his advisors were none other than controversial Mushirul-Hasan, MJ Akbar and Qamar Ali. These secular fundamentalists succeeded in influencing the opinion of Kapur to the extent that he hailed Sheikh Abdullah not only secular and socialist but also an ardent believer in the concept of India and a patriot of great order. He again and again said that Sheikh Abdullah believed in Hindu-Muslim-Sikh unity and asserted and reasserted that the Sheikh reassured the minority communities that he would protect them against exclusion by the majority (Muslims) and that they would be safe and secure under his leadership. It is obvious that Shekhar Kapur neither took any pain to understand Sheikh Abdullah and the nature of his leadership nor did he try to understand what the NC leader actually stood for.

Sheikh Abdullah was a leader but of one section of Kashmiri society. He had no support-base whatever in Jammu and Ladakh, not even in those areas of Jammu province and Ladakh where the Muslims were quite numerous. The fact of the matter is that the people of Jammu and Ladakh, including Muslims, barring a few disgruntled elements here and there, hated and despised Sheikh Abdullah. But Shekhar Kapur did not say a word on the inter-regional relations as well as relations between Sheikh Abdullah and people of Jammu and Ladakh, which housed more population and constituted more than 85 per cent of the State’s land area.

Paradoxically, Shekhar Kapur also suppressed the fact that Sheikh Abdullah as an Emergency administrator had not allowed the non-Muslims from Pakistan-Occupied Jammu & Kashmir (POJK), including Hindus and Sikhs, to migrate to the Valley in the wake of the Pakistani attack on Muzaffarabad, part of Kashmir division. They had to migrate to Jammu province or other parts of India. Sheikh Abdullah not only did not allow the victims of two nation concept and fanatics to enter the Valley but also persuaded Nehru to announce ceasefire at a time when the advancing Indian Army was about to evict the Pakistani invaders from the Indian territories. Sheikh Abdullah did all this to rule the State unhindered. (Prem Shankar Jha, rival versions in history). Had the Indian Army liberated POJK and Gilgit-Baltistan, the State power would have been in the hands of non-Kashmiris, including people of Jammu and Ladakh and people of POJK and Gilgit-Baltistan, all non-Kashmiri, and there would have been no Kashmir problem. Announcement of ceasefire was nothing but the immediate fallout of a conspiracy hatched by Nehru and the Sheikh against India and non-Kashmiri population, vehemently opposed to Sheikh. He did not say a word on this historical fact.

Uncontested communalism hurting Kashmiri Hindus

As if all this was not enough to tell the non-Muslim minorities that they were unwanted in Kashmir, Sheikh Abdullah as Wazir-e-Azam evolved and implemented administrative, economic and religious policies which set-in-motion a process of migration of Kashmiri Hindus from their original habitat, land of Vitasta (Jhelum). Thousands of Kashmiri Hindus migrated to Jammu and other parts of the country after Nehru transferred political power from Jammu to Sheikh Abdullah in October 1947 using devious means. It is intriguing that instead of visiting the refugee camps in Jammu province for an on-the-spot assessment, Shekhar Kapur allowed himself to be dictated by Hasan, Akbar and Ali and portrayed what he portrayed in his controversial Pradhanmantri. It would be unfair on his part to suppress the fact that Kashmir which was once a 100 per cent non-Muslim State; is today almost 100 per cent Muslim.

It needs to be underlined that it was Kashmir which was added to the Jammu kingdom in March 1846 under the Treaty of Amritsar, signed between the British and Dogra Maharaja Gulab Singh, and not the vice-versa. But Shekhar Kapur did not even once mention this fact. On the contrary, he provoked the people of Jammu and Ladakh by repeatedly describing the State of Jammu & Kashmir as Kashmir State, Maharaja of Jammu & Kashmir as Maharaja of Kashmir and people of the State as people of Kashmir. I will write on this subject in a day or two and it will be based on what transpired in the Indian Constituent Assembly on May 27, 1949. As of now, suffice it to say that Nehru and his men had conspired against the people of Jammu and Ladakh to ensure that Sheikh Abdullah, whose anti-Jammu credentials were too well-known and ruled the roost unhindered.

Article 370 divides, Article 371 empowers people

I am not an admirer of Rajas and Maharajas or Princes and Nawabs, but it has to be admitted that Jammu & Kashmir was one of the four most progressive and liberal Princely States and Hari Singh was a great democrat, secular and liberal ruler. The other three progressive Princely States were Travencore and Mysore in South India and Baroda in Western India. Maharaja Hari Singh, like his predecessors, introduced revolutionary changes in almost all the branches of administration, including judiciary, revenue, agriculture, land, irrigation, education, health and police; established rule of law by bringing all sections of society, including Brahmins and Rajputs, and all communities under the criminal justice system; and ensured to the maximum possible extent that no community suffered from discrimination on any ground whatsoever. But more than that, he established Praja Sabha (Legislative Assembly) in 1934 to democratise the State’s polity by associating people of all communities and all regions with the law-making processes and established Board of Judicial Advisors charged with the responsibility of hearing appeals against the Jammu & Kashmir High Court of Judicature, which he himself established in 1928.

Even far more significant was his landmark decision to grant proprietary rights to the people. It is a matter of grave concern that Shekhar Kapur did not give what was due to Hari Singh.

(To be concluded)

http://www.niticentral.com/2013/07/30/s ... 11653.html

I follow that TV show.. I deliberately DID NOT report it here and recommended it, here. It is one of the last ditch attempts of the Nehruvians to sell their version of India..

However, I did not help but notice a new understanding. When a leader is placed from the top, out of no where, he more often than not screws up the understanding of the system. Namo is one of the few exceptions who did not botch things up. Patel had organic support. Nehru appears to be a bumbling idiot while handling the state-hood demands of AP and MH. Shekhar Kapur grudgingly admits this. most of the historians are from JNU, so it is expected that this will be so.

It is a good exercise with wrong orientation. The production quality is decent. They could have accommodated anti-nehruvian views as well to make it more credible. now, it seems like it is nehruvian propaganda exercise.

member_19686 · Post by **member_19686** » 11 Aug 2013 21:51

Some results of the deeds of "ordinary" Muslims in Kishtwar:

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 11 Aug 2013 23:16

dada wrote:# svenkat

muslims make the best slaves & the worst masters
no wonder an islamic political system which mass produces such minds appeals to political brokers
regular selective assassination of the worst leaders every year is the way to manage these people
simply watch all the post prayer speeches of such leaders on youtube
complete mastery over spoken language mixed with religion is a hall mark of these leaders.
the way these leaders manage "MOB PSYCHOLOGY" is something to be studied in depth
they can literally move mobs effortlessly !note that even in the recent ramban riots , most rioting followed immediately after organised prayers !

In incident like Kishtwar, best to use the policy of
Provoking, Exposing, and Disposing. Seventy Two percent of these rioters, miscreants should not have gone back without sacrificing their few limbs . I still think we can use the tactic of striping them naked and dropping them in deep down South.Let people know who are these traitors.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 12 Aug 2013 08:57

This may explain why the new Kishtwar incidents are taking place.Pak is desperate to incite general unrest in the Valley as militancy is tapering off due to the IA;s firm handling of terrorists and the dwindling interest in terror by Kashmiri youth.As in the UK with their Paki brainwashed and trained jihadis,a more educated type of militancy is appearing.So a desperate Paki army/ISI is attempting to engineer large-scale disturbances in the valley and as Gen.Bandicoot did at Kargil,try a "quick-fix" limited conflict at a place of its choosing before Gen.Kill-Any's term as Army Chief runs out.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/a ... -militants
Kashmir conflict ebbs as new wave of militant emerges

Younger, better-educated militants are being drawn to the separatist cause but violence and support is waning after a decades-long insurgency in the disputed territory.

Jason Burke in Tral, Kashmir
theguardian.com, Sunday 11 August 2013 17.57 BST

Kashmir militant Burhan Muzaffar Wani. Violence is dwindly in Kashmir but a new wave of better-educated, young fighter is being drawn to the separatist cause. Photograph: Jason Burke for the Guardian

The picture – showing a fresh-faced young man leaning nonchalantly against a tree – has been circulating on social media and mobile phones for months. But the smiling 17-year-old, Burhan Muzaffar Wani, a keen cricketer and successful student, is carrying an assault rifle, not a bat, and the bag at his feet does not contain notebooks.

One of a new wave of young, educated separatist militants active in the Indian-administered parts of Kashmir, Wani has much support in his village of Tral, a cluster of traditional homes and mosques amid green fields and woods in a fold of the dry hills in the south of "the valley", as the most famous, richest and strategically important part of the disputed Himalayan former princedom is known.

"Everyone in the village supports Burhan," said a friend, requesting anonymity for fear of detention by security forces as a militant sympathiser.

Kashmir, which was split between Pakistan and India after the countries gained their independence from the UK in 1947, still makes headline news. Seven towns in the Indian portion are under an indefinite curfew following sporadic clashes between local Hindus and Muslims that have killed three people, officials said.

Last week, India accused Pakistan of sending commandos to kill five of its soldiers stationed on the line of control, the de facto border dividing the two parts of Kashmir.

But overall levels of violence are lower now in Kashmir than at any time since an insurgency that pitted groups of young Muslim Kashmiris enrolled in Islamist groups, and later extremists from Pakistan too, against Indian security forces first flared more than two decades ago. In total, more than 50,000 militants, soldiers, police and civilians are thought to have died in the fighting in India's only Muslim-majority state. Human rights abuses have been perpetrated by all sides.

At its height in 2001, 4,500 deaths were recorded, according to the Institute for Conflict Management, a Delhi-based thinktank. Last year, only 117 people were killed.

And though there have been spectacular attacks against military targets and scores were injured in rioting in July after four protesters were shot dead by security forces, officials in Srinagar, Kashmir's summer capital, say there are now no more than 200 militants operating in the valley, whereas at the peak of the insurgency there were up to 20 times as many.

The unrest that has often paralysed cities and the economy in recent years has almost died away. Tourists now throng the houseboats on Dal lake or make pilgrimages to Hindu holy sites.

"I have never been worried while here. The image of Kashmir elsewhere in India is totally wrong," said Meha Sao, from the southern state of Maharashtra, on holiday in Srinagar.

Nor, despite the sentiments expressed by the friend of Wani the militant, is support for violence as widespread as it once was. "You do find some local support in pockets but these pockets have shrunk dramatically, which is why it is so difficult for the militants," said Omar Abdullah, the chief minister.

A militant hardcore still exists, particularly in southern areas such as Tral. And even if less numerous, the new militants appear highly motivated. Wani is believed to have been involved in at least one of the recent attacks on security forces.

Tral village is tense. After three militants and a policeman were killed in a recent clash nearby, leaders of Hizb-ul-Mujahideen, the group Wani is believed to have joined, warned locals to stay away from security personnel, whom they planned to target.

Observers say the new recruits to militancy are different from volunteers over the past 20 years. They are younger and better educated. Wani is one of the youngest. His father, Muzaffar Ahmed Wani, 50, said his son had left home overnight two years ago to join the militants, aged just 15. "He said nothing to anyone. He just said he was going out and didn't come back," he said.

Though pious and brought up in a family that is supportive of the extremists, Wani had shown no sign of wanting to take up arms until he was detained and beaten by security forces, his father, the head of a local college, said.
Dal lake, Srinagar, in the Kashmir 'valley' Dal lake, Srinagar, in the Kashmir 'valley'. Photograph: Rouf Bhat/AFP/Getty Images

"He was thinking of revenge only for 15 days after being released. So he got in contact with the militants. Or maybe they heard about him and got in touch. Then he went. It was only 10 days before his exams. But I am proud of him," his father said.

It is almost certain that Wani will be killed. Few active militants surrender. Most prefer to die when cornered by security forces. "We are ready for him to die," his father said. "We are facing oppression every day. I look around and I see only ashes. There is only less violence because there is a lack of faith. Anyone with true faith joins the militants."
'We are not scared of death, we are just scared of detention'

Three hours' drive to the north, in the tough town of Sopore, the family of Muzamil Amin Dar have already faced what Wani has accepted is inevitable.

Dar, 26, was killed last October. Accounts of how and why he had joined the extremists differ. His family says Dar, a college graduate who had landed a highly paid job as a hospital medical technician with a monthly salary of £200 seven months before going underground, was not interested in radicalism.

This changed, they say, after his detention by security forces when guns were found in a well in the Dars' garden. Police say he was a member of the Pakistan-based Lashkar-e-Taiba group, one of the most violent organisations operating in the valley, for five years, was the mastermind of a Delhi bomb plot and was wanted for several local militant attacks including the killing of a policeman.

Over recent years Dar had become increasingly devout. He had stopped his father, an electrical repair man, from watching television and convinced another brother to leave a bank job which, Dar said, involved usury.

"Once I was watching a cricket match and he unplugged the television and shouted at me not to waste my time on trivial things," Dar's father, Mohammed Amin, said.

After his son disappeared, there was no news. Then last October, the family heard firing only a mile from their home. A huge military operation was under way. Two militants armed with assault rifles and grenades were holed up in a house, they heard. Then they learned one was Dar.

Security forces asked Dar Sr to negotiate with his son but he refused, fearing they would kill him as he came out to surrender. After nearly 12 hours of shooting, his son, badly wounded, called him and told his father to "live life according to Islam".

He died the next morning when explosions brought down the house he and the other militant had hidden in. "We miss him a lot," his father said. A policeman and a paramilitary were wounded in the firefight.

Such encounters were once regular occurrences. Now they are rare. A senior Indian official in northern Kashmir said the extremist groups had been forced to change tactics in recent years because they lacked weapons.

"They have moved from insurgency to terrorism. But if they had thousands of guns they would have thousands of fighters," he said.

This, most analysts believe, is underestimating the degree to which decades of conflict have undermined support for militancy locally.

Some suggest that security officials in the disputed province exaggerate the threat from extremism to justify wide-ranging powers of arrest and detention – and a broad measure of immunity from prosecution for human rights abuses – granted early on in the conflict.

One factor is declining official support for the extremists in Indian Kashmir from Pakistan over the past decade. Another is the growing disparity between the economies of the two neighbours, which have fought three wars over the state. Indian growth has undermined the argument for accession to Pakistan in Kashmir – though much rhetorical support for independence remains – and sapped enthusiasm for any return to a hugely disruptive violent struggle.

However, Abdullah, the chief minister, said economic development was only a partial solution. "You will always be plagued by the reality that there is a political issue that formed the basis for this trouble and it will have to be resolved, today, tomorrow, the day after, at some point," he said.

During a short bout of rioting in Sopore, a hotbed of insurgent violence in northern Kashmir, last month, young men spoke of their anger.

"We are not scared of death, we are just scared of detention, for our families," said Shakeel Ahmed, a 24-year-old pharmaceutical representative, before returning to throw stones at the police. "The level of militancy is low now, it is true, but it will rise, God willing."

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 12 Aug 2013 12:15

@EmalPasarly: 1/2 When you read or watch #Pakistani media on #Indian #Kashmir you feel like that is the only hell on earth, but then I met this
@EmalPasarly: 2/2 #Pashtoon of #Indian #Kashmir he thinks their Kashmir is the heaven on earth since militant moved to #Afghanistan by their masters