Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 29 Jul 2013 19:43

SwamyG wrote:I agree Bush was a bright guy, he just went with the dumb image. But his interviews and speeches had some awkward moments.

You must switch over to drinking some bottled spring water.. i think this is a problem of drinking too much mississippi water.

Rudradev · Post by **Rudradev** » 29 Jul 2013 19:46

SwamyG wrote:. Rahul clearly is not a good speaker or answered, but does he have other qualities? It is unknown for the moment.

Swamy, consider this.

Rahul has enormous wealth to back a vast PR blitz on his behalf... in amounts that make the bank accounts of India's biggest business houses look like chit-funds. Lakhs of crores of rupees harvested from scam after scam.

Rahul has a national-level media machine that is bought and paid for, to adore, protect and highlight him and never ask him difficult questions on any issue.

Rahul has the complete, unadulterated support of the largest, oldest, most well-established political party machine in India. Perhaps the only one that spans all 28 states of India.

Finally, being that we Indians are a family-oriented people who often consider ourselves indebted to an individual's ancestors, quite apart from the merits of the individual himself... Rahul has a ready-made space in the minds and hearts of people who remember Nehru, Indira and even Rajiv as respected, regarded and venerated leaders.

In short: if Rahul had ANY qualities worthy of a leader... ANY qualities at ALL... he has (1) unmatched means to publicize them (2) unlimited, unquestioning channels to communicate them (3) a gigantic political war machine to capitalize on them and convert them into votes (4) every guarantee of a fair, even friendly or sympathetic hearing from the VAST majority of the Indian people.

Yet, in spite of all this, we have to say his qualities are "unknown."

To my mind, this is as much a guarantee as anything that his qualities are nonexistent.

shyamoo · Post by **shyamoo** » 29 Jul 2013 20:43

Rudradev wrote:
SwamyG wrote:. Rahul clearly is not a good speaker or answered, but does he have other qualities? It is unknown for the moment.
Swamy, consider this.

Rahul has enormous wealth to back a vast PR blitz on his behalf... in amounts that make the bank accounts of India's biggest business houses look like chit-funds. Lakhs of crores of rupees harvested from scam after scam.

Rahul has a national-level media machine that is bought and paid for, to adore, protect and highlight him and never ask him difficult questions on any issue.

Rahul has the complete, unadulterated support of the largest, oldest, most well-established political party machine in India. Perhaps the only one that spans all 28 states of India.

Finally, being that we Indians are a family-oriented people who often consider ourselves indebted to an individual's ancestors, quite apart from the merits of the individual himself... Rahul has a ready-made space in the minds and hearts of people who remember Nehru, Indira and even Rajiv as respected, regarded and venerated leaders.

In short: if Rahul had ANY qualities worthy of a leader... ANY qualities at ALL... he has (1) unmatched means to publicize them (2) unlimited, unquestioning channels to communicate them (3) a gigantic political war machine to capitalize on them and convert them into votes (4) every guarantee of a fair, even friendly or sympathetic hearing from the VAST majority of the Indian people.

Yet, in spite of all this, we have to say his qualities are "unknown."

To my mind, this is as much a guarantee as anything that his qualities are nonexistent.

+108.

As usual, explained it perfectly.

Only problem.. you did not use bullet points!!!

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 29 Jul 2013 21:36

you see bullet points makes all the difference!

, with numbers you get unnecessary priority conflicts on the points.

Murugan · Post by **Murugan** » 29 Jul 2013 22:00

Tweet

Desh Ka:
Bapu Gandhi
Chacha Nehru
Mata Indira
Mama Kuttarochi
Bahu Sonia
Beti Ishrat
Beta Rahul
Bhai Dawood
Dushman Modi

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 29 Jul 2013 22:13

do we have any metrics on gujarat poverty rates during modi regime? pc has invoked sen and bhagwati model.

James B · Post by **James B** » 29 Jul 2013 22:34

Posting it for posterity

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 29 Jul 2013 22:47

such authoritative utterance should have the vote box in hand.

KJo · Post by **KJo** » 29 Jul 2013 22:54

James B wrote:Posting it for posterity

If not what?

He should promise to do some disgusting, demeaning deed (to himself) and post it on Youtube.

disha · Post by **disha** » 29 Jul 2013 23:18

Excellent post Rudradev'ji.

SwamyG, can you please extoll all the qualities of Rahul Gandhi? And it has to be objective., that is say RG has said something and followed it up by actually executing in some manner outside of the party. And for every one you bring up for RG, bring the same for NaMo.

Alternatively, you can do the same exercise for NaMo (say an idea followed by an example) and see if you can do the same for RG. You can extend that to MMS or Sonia as well if you like. I can give you one example Sabarmati riverfront, Ahmedabad. Again it could be local level, state level or international level.

Please do that exercise SwamyG.

M Joshi · Post by **M Joshi** » 29 Jul 2013 23:59

SwamyG wrote:Rahul clearly is not a good speaker or answered, but does he have other qualities? It is unknown for the moment.

How is it "unknown at the moment"?
He has been an MP for over 9 years now & it should be aptly clear in this timeframe that whether or not he has those other qualities. Let's assume for a moment that he's not a good speaker but have other qualities needed in a leader? Let's list those:
> Being at the forefront when a country is facing a crisis - He's in Spain at that time.
> Identifying real threats to the nation's security - His remarks about Hindu terror to US ambassador
> Treating every citizen equally - He goes to a villager's home for night stay & how he chooses to publicise it? By saying it's a Dalit's home. Not a poor person's home who should benefit from his better economic policies for the country which mind you he hasn't pointed out till date on any forum whatsoever.
> Being humble, thankful to the citizens - His smugness can be easily seen from various statements which he has made over the years.
> Good governance - Anything from his mouth or his work in his constituency?

And at last your point of him not being a good speaker. I don't think he's not a good speaker, he' above average I'd say. Listen to some of his rally speeches. The problem though is that he is full of 'CONG'nitive ability & lacks cognitive ability.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 30 Jul 2013 01:55

so, Modi can only do pretty much something.. can't really reach out beyond his boundaries.

Times of India source

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 30 Jul 2013 02:01

Well national politics has certainly reached a new low when a dynasty nobody like Rahul with corrupt Robert to hide is talking about Narendra Modi and PM candidature.

It is no use to have such nobodies in politics for these little buggers will only have divide&rule angle to talk of and that is the only thing to show for even at national level.

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 30 Jul 2013 02:14

SaiK wrote: so, Modi can only do pretty much something.. can't really reach out beyond his boundaries.

Even Jadu Bhai has realized the OBC polarization for Modi and using hatred against Brahmins as an antidote to stop it. Also, the surveys & polls are to keep the scams / issues away from the debate before the Monsoon session. By debating surveys u r helping congress

Vikas · Post by **Vikas** » 30 Jul 2013 02:22

^ So Javed Bhai is saying that BJP will come to power but they will have to ditch NaMo.
Somehow Cognitive-Dissonance doesn't go away so easily.

Rudradev · Post by **Rudradev** » 30 Jul 2013 02:51

SaiK,

I notice you are relentlessly posting unaccredited snippets from so-called "polls" conducted by news media channels whose bias and partisanship in no doubt. Further, you go on to draw conclusions based on these highly suspect data.

I'd like to point out two things.

One: when it comes to "polls" ostensibly conducted by outfits like CNN-IBN or Times Now, there are two intended audiences. The first audience, as Madhu Kishwar's tweet points out, is the BJP. There is a clear attempt to convince the BJP rank-and-file that Modi is less likely to be effective than they think, and hence that they are better off playing a defeatist game.

The second audience is the Congress itself! After all, how can CNN-IBN, NDTV or Times Now justify the crores of lifafa-money and Bharat-Nirman revenue they are getting from the Congress? They must prove that they themselves are effective propagandists, and that their slanted coverage is turning public opinion against Modi... after all, that's how they will continue to reap Congress funds! Hence, any "poll" they conduct will be skewed to reflect the desired outcome (less seats to BJP, deliberate undervaluation of the Modi effect.)

Two: in order to have any credibility whatsoever, a poll or statistically-based trial must be conducted with a transparent methodology and interpreted by neutral authorities with no demonstrable interest in the outcome. CNN-IBN and Times Now suffer from the same conflict of interest, as a crooked Doctor running clinical trials for a drug that he is being paid by the pharmaceutical company to prescribe! Is it in such a Doctor's interest to objectively state the results of the trial, regarding the drug's safety and efficacy? By the same token, no "poll" conducted by the Congress-sponsored media outlets can be considered worth the paper its results are printed on.

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 30 Jul 2013 03:24

Here it comes from horse's mouth. For India to remain united, Hindus must accept their status as Dhimmis.

Rahul hits out at Modi's brand of politics, says it could impact the unity of the country

http://ibnlive.in.com/news/rahul-hits-o ... 37-64.html

Just to make us get full purport of above statement from Rahul ji.

Muslims must have first claim on resources: PM

http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes ... es-muslims

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 30 Jul 2013 05:01

rudradev, apologies.. i missed to link it up.

I agree, none of these data makes sense.. unless we get to see the methods clearly.

--ps: found a methodology link for you: I don't know however, if they are using the same here now.
http://ibnlive.in.com/news/methodology- ... 206-3.html

btw, I only relentlessly posted twice about the poll.

And, if we think this is a scam, it should be brought up to the public notice, to preserve the democratic norms.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 30 Jul 2013 05:19

disha wrote:Excellent post Rudradev'ji.

SwamyG, can you please extoll all the qualities of Rahul Gandhi? And it has to be objective., that is say RG has said something and followed it up by actually executing in some manner outside of the party. And for every one you bring up for RG, bring the same for NaMo.

Alternatively, you can do the same exercise for NaMo (say an idea followed by an example) and see if you can do the same for RG. You can extend that to MMS or Sonia as well if you like. I can give you one example Sabarmati riverfront, Ahmedabad. Again it could be local level, state level or international level.

Please do that exercise SwamyG.

A. I am not a Rahul Gandhi supporter. So I am not going to rack my brains or spend time doing that exercise.
B. Right now Modi is a superior politician than Rahul.
C. I was just wondering were the meme of Rahul being uttering clueless/dumb etc came about.
D. I think India needs a break from INC, and will do good with a dynamic leader - right now that is Modi. I do not care for the bumbling fools of BJP either. I would not mind Modi going it alone, breaking away from BJP if necessary.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 30 Jul 2013 05:23

Perhaps many kangrez and bjp-ites must realize this that there is a sizable population in desh (i think >30%) who are seeking for good governance, and normally either vote for the lesser evil or abstain themselves. this is the crowd modi might attract. please note this very clearly.. that this is a large population to win over the other party..

If it was not Modi, BJP is nothing today.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 30 Jul 2013 05:27

kapilrdave wrote:
Ashok Sarraff wrote:Swami Ramdev's interview. Blasts the termite family left, right and center. Never before on TV. Please watch and propogate.

http://aajtak.intoday.in/karyakram/ramd ... 37451.html

Actually I was disappointed by this interview. He was shouting and making insane statements like a loser. Compare this interview with Smriti Irani's.

What was more insane was Rahul Kanwal's:
1. Body language - aggressive, facial looks, posture itaydi.
2. Foregone conclusion on Modi - he had already bracketed Modi as scum of the earth or to that likes.
3. Because of #1 and #2, was cornering Ramdev every second.

Ramdev kept digressing to INC when it was needed. He did answer couple of times on the lines, "Yes, boss. So what?". He needed to do it more often. On the Puppy and Burqa remarks, I was surprised he did not give a clear 'Yes' or 'No' answer. If he had said 'yes', it would have pushed Modi into sticky wickets - it is fodder for the media. Since he was not read to say 'yes', he should have said a 'no' and gone with it. As per his own claims, he was never going to fight for a political seat, so why not just say "no" and move on?

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 30 Jul 2013 05:34

Rudradev: Rahul might very well lack leadership qualities that Modi can boast. Does that make him dumb and a poster boy for an idiot? I would say a true comparison could be achieved if Rahul was a CM for 2 terms. Rahul has been driving from the back seat.

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 30 Jul 2013 05:55

SwamyG wrote:Rudradev: Rahul might very well lack leadership qualities that Modi can boast. Does that make him dumb and a poster boy for an idiot? I would say a true comparison could be achieved if Rahul was a CM for 2 terms. Rahul has been driving from the back seat.

And what does it tell us about him that he never chose to become a CM or even a cabinet minister? His mother's word is law in the Congress. He could have gotten any job in any Congress ruled state or in the central administration. Instead he did nothing and is now directly wants to run the entire country. Driving from back seat is a euphemism for enjoying power without responsibility. Anyone can wield power. It is dealing with the consequences of wielding that power which requires real acumen.

krisna · Post by **krisna** » 30 Jul 2013 06:07

SwamyG wrote:Rudradev: Rahul might very well lack leadership qualities that Modi can boast. Does that make him dumb and a poster boy for an idiot? I would say a true comparison could be achieved if Rahul was a CM for 2 terms. Rahul has been driving from the back seat.

are you really serious swamyG.
rahul has shouted himself hoarse that he does not want responsibility. he had ample chances in the last 9 years to shoulder it.

he lacks everything-- despite your assertions that there is no proof.

it is all too visible for people who can see it.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 30 Jul 2013 06:09

I would not be surprised if Rahul ji becomes a fanboi of Swamy ji. Just by the answer he gave to the media person on the video posted here.. what would you do?

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 30 Jul 2013 06:27

Guys, maybe we should just chillax n layoff personal opinions that're immune to facts. its ok. why bother only?

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 30 Jul 2013 06:35

krisna wrote:he lacks everything-- despite your assertions that there is no proof.

That is a mighty strong word. I have not asserted anywhere. All I am asking is where did the meme of him being an idiot come? One has to give the benefit of doubt to an individual. One never knows what qualities will become useful. It is neram and kalam that makes the call. For the nth time, I am not on Rahul's side

However, I do prefer treating him as a normal individual and dismiss him because of his lack of achievements and whatever views he has expressed so far.

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 30 Jul 2013 07:07

People think he is an idiot because he talks like one and acts like one. It is entirely a thing created by him. Why are you trying to find reasons beyond this.

Why don't you look at his activities and speeches in parliament. A grand total of nothing, that is...for nine years.

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 30 Jul 2013 07:10

The webpage Rahul Gandhi achievements is bang on and there is no meaningful counter for it, for indeed he has done nothing with the hi profile positions within the party and the govt.

shyamoo · Post by **shyamoo** » 30 Jul 2013 07:29

Gus wrote:People think he is an idiot because he talks like one and acts like one. It is entirely a thing created by him. Why are you trying to find reasons beyond this.

Why don't you look at his activities and speeches in parliament. A grand total of nothing, that is...for nine years.

If it quacks like a duck, walks like a duck and looks like a duck, it is safe to assume that it is a duck.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 30 Jul 2013 07:36

it could be a goose too.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 30 Jul 2013 07:43

SwamyG garu,

Generally a person is called idiot/stupid when that person 'demonstrates' a level of intelligence much below the average intelligence of the surrounding society.

So far has Rahul demonstrated below average (i mean very poor indian) intelligence for the level of access he has compared to other Indians. Imagine the scenario if Rahul were to be born in to a normal poor family.

On top of it Rahul tries to make fool of his audience by 'being' double smart. This makes me believe that his IQ must be half of what he really "projects" (imagine him without all those doggy advisers, Sanjay Jha boot lickers and favourable salivating media)

So I think we can safely conclude that Rahul's IQ is half of the IQ of a 12 day old kid.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 30 Jul 2013 07:45

Gus wrote:The webpage Rahul Gandhi achievements is bang on and there is no meaningful counter for it, for indeed he has done nothing with the hi profile positions within the party and the govt.

Disclaimer: The creation of we page (registering the website and putting the empty HTML as home page etc) are the contributions of congress party.

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 30 Jul 2013 08:18

Modi's solution working in MP

Madhya Pradesh wipes out power deficit in 3 years, enjoys 24-hour power supply

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/new ... 472635.cms

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 30 Jul 2013 08:54

SaiK wrote:it could be a goose too.

SaiK, Geese honk. They dont quack!

Virendra · Post by **Virendra** » 30 Jul 2013 08:59

SwamyG wrote:
satya wrote:Can the voters living in slums or slum like areas in urban areas & rural areas find connection with NaMojee's message ( if it gets communicated to them on a platform similar to Ram Mandir in 90s ) stronger than one with INC's vote buying machine ?
Tavleen Singh answers part of that question w.r.t Rajasthan rural voters: http://www.niticentral.com/2013/07/14/h ... 03817.html {a two week old article}

Swamy ji,

I've been certain for quite some time that there is a Modi wave simmering in the small semi-urban towns (or what have inflated from previously large villages) of Rajasthan.
It is the cities and pure villages I'm not certain of. Gehlot has been distributing too many goodies in full swing. It has confused the overall scene here.
Rajasthan LA is of 200 seats and independents+smaller entities like BSP etc might gobble upto 50 seats among themselves.
One of the crucial factors in cities would be the people's perception of who is closer to Delhi, between Congress(Rahul) and BJP(Modi). They will vote to align the LA with how they expect the Parliament to tilt just a few months later.

Regards,
Virendra

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 30 Jul 2013 09:04

SaiK wrote:it could be a goose too.

True. But it can't be a mon-goose. No?

archan · Post by **archan** » 30 Jul 2013 09:24

Hari Seldon wrote:Guys, maybe we should just chillax n layoff personal opinions that're immune to facts. its ok. why bother only?

Some would do well to heed to this advice. The moment someone talks slightly off the accepted track, some people start getting personal.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 30 Jul 2013 09:38

sorry.. right ramana.. he is duck and has seen by all of us, he had ducked many questions

.

Chandragupta · Post by **Chandragupta** » 30 Jul 2013 09:42

Don't you insult the duck saar.