Perspectives on the global economic meltdown- (Nov 28 2010)

[vishvak]

^^ About Greek measures, the Church participation in community services stands out distinctly. However did Greeks sell all their gold or the Greeks are not going to in even after debt crisis?

Seems gold and church are the only ones in European parts of Greece within Europe doing something. And hopefully Europeans will pool their gold to tackle the crisis even if it means spending it all.

[TSJones]

http://ideas.foreignpolicy.com/posts/20 ... ading_list

Mr. Rajan argued that austerity was needed for the US. We'll have to wait and see if he feels the same way for India.

[RoyG]

^^^^^So what? They still got massive loan infusions and guarantees from the ECB and the EU.

The Greek economy suffered crippling unemployment, destruction of public pensions and the necessity of public soup kitchens in order to fight wholesale hunger and a banking panic.

Now they have bottomed out but who knows when the general public will completely recover?

What a victory for austerity.

And why? Because their system of taxation was corrupt and public pensions not based on any sense of reality. Not even close. The whole nation was living on a lie; their application and reporting of their financial position to join the ECB and gain access to the euro was partially fabricated in the first place. Their participation in the euro was a tissue of schemes that finally caught up with them. A nation of flim flam presenting their credentials of false integrity. And it collapsed.

They have certainly paid the price. And you say austerity worked? I say the truth was found out. My sympathies are with the innocent Greek citizens who were vicitmized by this. Some of them lost everything. The ECB will wind up making money on this as most central banks always do (and the German government) despite the German grumpiness about "paying" for Greek debt.

They got loan infusions provided they quit living beyond their means. They are now restructuring their economy and recovering. Yes, a victory for austerity.

[Austin]

Russia’s trade surplus declines more than 10% in 6 months
http://www.itar-tass.com/en/c154/831066.html

MOSCOW, August 6 (Itar-Tass) - Russia’s trade surplus reduced by 10.5% to $103.3 billion in January-June, the Federal Customs Service said on Tuesday.

Russia’s trade surplus with non-CIS countries equaled $90.5 billion, down by $7.4 billion and with CIS member-states - $12.8 billion, down by $4.6 billion.

Over this period Russia’s foreign trade declined by 0.5% to $404.6 billion equaling $351 billion with non-CIS countries, and $53.6 billion with CIS member-states.

In January-June, Russia’s export decreased by 2.7% to $253.9 billion. Over this period non-CIS states accounted for 86.9% of Russia’s export and CIS member-states - for 13.1%.

Russia’s import increased by 3.4% to $150.7 billion yer-on-year. Over this period non-CIS states accounted for 86.5% of Russia’s import and CIS member-states - for 13.5%.

[TSJones]

They got loan infusions provided they quit living beyond their means. They are now restructuring their economy and recovering. Yes, a victory for austerity.

Well then give Mr. Rajan a hearty welcome as new governor of the RBI *if* he follows true to form. No more namby pamby Keynesian economics for the Indian masses. India will get its financial house in order with some tough love.

[RoyG]

Interest rates are already so high due to excessive spending. Not much he can do from that end. Perhaps you can enlighten me on how Mr. Rajan intends to tinker with public policy and make it less Keynesian. Don't think Sonia is willing to hand over the reins to an RBI head.

[vic]

The NYMEX crude seems to have moved up by USD 20 in last couple of months, it is difficult to imagine that there is no inflation in USA. The problem is that US Govt understates and blogs over states inflation. The real truth may lie somewhere in middle.

[Austin]

Oil prices were almost $93 in April this year to now $105 today for WTI same for India basket, so within 5 months it has gained $12 per barrel.Wont be surprised if our Oil Import bills are high this year also one year forecast is $121 per barrel ( http://oil-price.net/ )

[Austin]

Italian economy shrinks again – but less than expected

Italy’s GDP fell by 0.2 percent in the second quarter of 2013 – less than economists had predicted. The figure, reported by the Italian national statistics bureau Tuesday, adds to recent signs that the country’s longest post-war recession is bottoming out, Reuters said. The latest contraction – Italy’s eighth in a row – comes after a fall of 0.6 percent in the first quarter, and marks an annual fall of 2 percent.

[panduranghari]

Interest rates are already so high due to excessive spending. Not much he can do from that end. Perhaps you can enlighten me on how Mr. Rajan intends to tinker with public policy and make it less Keynesian. Don't think Sonia is willing to hand over the reins to an RBI head.

Saar to control the inflation monster, interest rates have to rise and fast. but the double whammy will be too many loans will default thus causing a massive deflationary pressure on the M1. The banks will need to be recapitalised by doing some massive printy printy. WHO PAYS? We pay. The casino banking is after all socialising the losses and privatising the profits. And Sonia can do nothing in these things. She would love to, but the possibility of her being able to influence the RBI governor appointment are very low. They governor will try everything to prevent the decimation of economy though Sonia has no idea how her policies are making the RBI job very difficult.

[TSJones]

Interest rates are already so high due to excessive spending. Not much he can do from that end. Perhaps you can enlighten me on how Mr. Rajan intends to tinker with public policy and make it less Keynesian. Don't think Sonia is willing to hand over the reins to an RBI head.

Let me just state right from the get go that I am not familiar with the Indian economy. It is the main reason why I do not post on the the Indian economy thread.

However, I am very familiar and knowledgable about Money and Banking Theory in general. I studied it in college and have spent my whole career in the insurance and banking field auditing the computer systems and applications that provides the services that the banking and insurance industry relies upon. I've been through an Office of the Comptroller of the Currency audit at a bank where I worked and provided the data and analysis they required in their review of the bank. So, I am not some cracked pot crank spouting off here.

If India is experiencing undesirable inflation (under Keynesian and Monetarist theory a small amount of inflation is good) then in order to correct it the currency must become more valuable or scarce. The only way that I know to accomplish that is to slow down the creation of the currency. Public policy can mandate all it wants but if the currency is not valuable enough or scarce eough INFLATION WILL NOT GO DOWN *unless* the government adopts massive economic price controls and import limits. Somehow, I don't see India going North Korean. I'll bet that won't happen.

Now, I have no idea if India is experiencing undesirable inflation or not, that's up to India to decide for itself, but if it is, then the answer is plain to see: increased interest rates and increased bank reserve requirements (and eventually resulting in less government borrowing). If this does happen, my deepest concern is for the poor, the downtrodden, the children and the elderly for they may suffer for the sins of others.

In the long run the growth of the Indian economy is the answer so maybe public policy will make it easier for the economy to grow?

[habal]

Economic growth is not always the answer. Growing on what is also to be questioned.

In a system full of leaks, the growth also means a growth of leaks. Unchecked inflation is centered around main metros like Delhi etc.

[svinayak]

People are trying to put developed economy solution to a poor country like India,

India has one of the largest population which needs sustained growth and strong leadership for more than 30 years uninterrupted to build up the economy
Banking and credit system is long way to reach the people.

[RoyG]

Actually regulation like the food security bill and others are creating inflation in certain sectors. To combat inflation we need to ditch the price controls, regulation, and curb excessive spending. Mr. Rajan can't do much but if I were heading the gov the first two steps that I would take are to slowly junk the oil subsidy and immediately the food security bill.

[Austin]

Bank of England could keep interest rate record low for 3yrs

The Bank of England will keep interest rates at 0.5 percent until the unemployment rate falls below the threshold of 7 percent. This could take another three years as the bank forecasts unemployment to fall slowly from its current level of 7.8 percent, to an average of 7.1 percent in the third quarter of 2016. Inflation, now at 2.9 percent, could also affect when the rate is changed, the bank said in its August Inflation Report.

[Austin]

Japan debt tops 1 quadrillion yen

Japan's finance ministry released data Friday showing that the country's debt burden has topped 1 quadrillion yen for the first time.

Yes, more than 1 quadrillion. If you want to get specific, Japan's central government debt at the end of June was 1,008,628,100,000,000 yen.

Here's another way to write that: 1,008.6 trillion yen. In U.S. dollars, it's $10.5 trillion.

While one quadrillion is largely a symbolic level, the eye-popping number underscores a real challenge for Japan, which has more debt as a percentage of GDP than any other developed nation.

Tokyo has now issued 830 trillion yen in government bonds, and the country's revenue collection has never kept pace. Japan's gross public debt is projected to hit 230% of GDP by 2014 after years of sustained deficits.

Japan has increased borrowing this year to spend more on the country's infrastructure as part of an ambitious program of economic stimulus aimed at ending decades of stagnation and falling prices.

The Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development has cautioned that Japan must do more to arrest rising debt. "Stopping and reversing the rise in the debt-to-GDP ratio is crucial," the organization has said.

It's the same story at the IMF: "Japan needs more ambitious plans to bring down debt, plus structural reforms to shift the economy into higher gear," IMF managing director Christine Lagarde said earlier this year.

Some help might be on the way, at least from next year.

The government is planning to double consumption tax to 10% by 2015. Paid by consumers when they buy goods or services, the tax will be increased in two stages, rising first to 8% in April 2014.

The country's leaders face a tough choice over how, or even whether, to implement the unpopular measure that could take a bite out of growth just as a bold economic stimulus plan appears to be bearing fruit.

Should the government follow through with the tax hike, it would help raise revenue and prove that Japan is committed to fiscal reforms. But the measure, as planned, would also slow the economy.

[Austin]

Economist: National Debt Six Times Higher Than Reported

It’s not a secret; the United States is saddled with debt. But how much debt the Nation owes depends upon whose accounting you use.

Currently, the Treasury reports $16.74 trillion in outstanding debt. About $4.84 trillion of that debt the Nation owes to itself in the form of liabilities such as Social Security, so many analysts say that the Nation holds about $11.91 trillion in publicly traded debt.

Trillions of dollars in debt sounds bad enough, but University of California-San Diego economist Professor James Hamilton says the debt that the Nation owes “off the books” is actually six times greater than the publicly reported financial burden.

The unaccounted debt Hamilton cites is comprised of off-balance-sheet liabilities that are not included in the government’s officially reported numbers. Specifically, those liabilities relate to the Federal government’s “support for housing, other loan guarantees, deposit insurance, actions taken by the Federal Reserve, and government trust funds.”

In a study of those liabilities, Hamilton estimates that a true accounting of the Nation’s debt would reveal that American taxpayers are on the hook for a debt burden of more than $70 trillion.

The largest chunk of the Nation’s actual debt, according to Hamilton, is the cost of Medicare and Social Security, which inflate the national debt by $27.6 trillion and $26.5 trillion respectively.

“The US population is aging, and an aging population means fewer people paying in and more people expecting benefits. This reality is unambiguously going to be a key constraint on the sustainability of fiscal policy for the United States,” Hamilton said. “One would think we should be saving as a nation today as preparation for retirement, and if in fact we are not, the current enormous on-balance-sheet federal debt is all the more of a concern.”

Here are some of Hamilton’s other findings about the unreported national debt:

Housing-Related Commitments

Government sponsored entities such as Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, which were nationalized during the financial crises, contributed $6.2112 trillion to the unreported national debt.
Government-sponsored mortgage value guarantees to investors contribute $1.408 trillion.

Government-Backed Lending

The Federal government is currently responsible for the guarantee of $325 billion in student loans and small-business loans.

FDIC

The Federal Deposit Insurance Corp., the government-backed insurance scheme that protects small depositors, contains only about $33 billion in funding from member fees. The full value of FDIC-backed deposits is $7.406 trillion.

The Federal Reserve

Fed policy accounts for about $1.128 trillion in unrecorded debt.

Government Trust Funds

Trust funds such as the Civil Service Retirement and Disability Fund and the Military Retirement Fund make up about $1.86 trillion in unreported Federal debt.

Hamilton’s debt estimate sounds about as bad as possible, but some economists argue that his numbers are too low. Boston University economics professor Laurence J. Kotlikoff recently came up with an off-the-books debt number three times higher than Hamilton’s.

“If you add up all the promises that have been made for spending obligations, including defense expenditures, and you subtract all the taxes that we expect to collect, the difference is $211 trillion. That’s the fiscal gap,” Kotlikoff told National Public Radio. “That’s our true indebtedness.”

Of course, if you’ve been a fan of Personal Liberty Digest ™ for any amount of time, you already knew all of this: We’ve been telling readers for years that the United States’ true debt is in the hundreds of trillions of dollars.

[habal]

From Rangarajan onwards, almost all RBI governors have been ex-IMF or WB. This trend started with Bimal Jalan.

[member_27444]

To spout advice, experience or knowledge is not a prerequisite

College courses wisdom is the same as well . 9 out 10 Nobel Economists are in University of Chicago, but south side of Chicago is worse than Mumbai slums.
Nor is the US economy in a rosy path. I wonder what wisdom can be used to rationalize

[TSJones]

Economist: National Debt Six Times Higher Than Reported

It’s not a secret; the United States is saddled with debt. But how much debt the Nation owes depends upon whose accounting you use.

Currently, the Treasury reports $16.74 trillion in outstanding debt. About $4.84 trillion of that debt the Nation owes to itself in the form of liabilities such as Social Security, so many analysts say that the Nation holds about $11.91 trillion in publicly traded debt.

Trillions of dollars in debt sounds bad enough, but University of California-San Diego economist Professor James Hamilton says the debt that the Nation owes “off the books” is actually six times greater than the publicly reported financial burden.

The unaccounted debt Hamilton cites is comprised of off-balance-sheet liabilities that are not included in the government’s officially reported numbers. Specifically, those liabilities relate to the Federal government’s “support for housing, other loan guarantees, deposit insurance, actions taken by the Federal Reserve, and government trust funds.”


In a study of those liabilities, Hamilton estimates that a true accounting of the Nation’s debt would reveal that American taxpayers are on the hook for a debt burden of more than $70 trillion.

The largest chunk of the Nation’s actual debt, according to Hamilton, is the cost of Medicare and Social Security, which inflate the national debt by $27.6 trillion and $26.5 trillion respectively.

“The US population is aging, and an aging population means fewer people paying in and more people expecting benefits. This reality is unambiguously going to be a key constraint on the sustainability of fiscal policy for the United States,” Hamilton said. “One would think we should be saving as a nation today as preparation for retirement, and if in fact we are not, the current enormous on-balance-sheet federal debt is all the more of a concern.”

Here are some of Hamilton’s other findings about the unreported national debt:

Housing-Related Commitments

Government sponsored entities such as Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, which were nationalized during the financial crises, contributed $6.2112 trillion to the unreported national debt.
Government-sponsored mortgage value guarantees to investors contribute $1.408 trillion.

Government-Backed Lending

The Federal government is currently responsible for the guarantee of $325 billion in student loans and small-business loans.

FDIC

The Federal Deposit Insurance Corp., the government-backed insurance scheme that protects small depositors, contains only about $33 billion in funding from member fees. The full value of FDIC-backed deposits is $7.406 trillion.

The Federal Reserve

Fed policy accounts for about $1.128 trillion in unrecorded debt.

Government Trust Funds

Trust funds such as the Civil Service Retirement and Disability Fund and the Military Retirement Fund make up about $1.86 trillion in unreported Federal debt.

Hamilton’s debt estimate sounds about as bad as possible, but some economists argue that his numbers are too low. Boston University economics professor Laurence J. Kotlikoff recently came up with an off-the-books debt number three times higher than Hamilton’s.

“If you add up all the promises that have been made for spending obligations, including defense expenditures, and you subtract all the taxes that we expect to collect, the difference is $211 trillion. That’s the fiscal gap,” Kotlikoff told National Public Radio. “That’s our true indebtedness.”

Of course, if you’ve been a fan of Personal Liberty Digest ™ for any amount of time, you already knew all of this: We’ve been telling readers for years that the United States’ true debt is in the hundreds of trillions of dollars.

Yeah, and just think of all those derivatives waiting to collapse also.

[Austin]

Eurasian Economic Union is not attempt to revive Soviet Union - Medvedev

MOSCOW, August 7 (Itar-Tass) - The Eurasian Economic Union is not an attempt to establish Russia’s dominance or to revive the former Soviet Union but a movement towards an association, like the European Union, featuring a high degree of mutually beneficial integration, Russian Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev said in an interview with the Georgian television channel Rustavi-2 on Tuesday. According to Medvedev, this project might be of interest for Georgia and other Russian neighbors.

“It is not a revival of the Soviet Union,” he said. “Who needs to revive the Soviet Union? We were all born there and now there is no point in it - we are living in the 21st century.”

“We can build highly-integrated economies, where there will be no younger or elder brothers, where all the rights will be observed and where our economic interests will be realized to the utmost benefit,” Medvedev noted, citing as an example the European Union, which has integrated economies, the common currency unit, common market, and which has a solid margin of safety, despite the current difficulties. “We should take it for a model. Of course, we should adjust it getting rid of what does not work but in general it is a good example. We want to build something like this.”

The idea to create an association like the Eurasian Economic Union was born as far back as the 1990s but it is realized “not because it is an instrument of promoting the idea of Russia’s dominance,” the Russian prime minister noted. “We think this style of our life together as the most civilized and most advanced one.” In his words, The Eurasian Economic Union project is about equal integration, consolidation of economic potentials, the use of mutually beneficial trade, investments, and humanitarian cooperation. “Now this idea continues its progress,” he added.

The Russian head of government noted that this project might be of interest for Russia’s neighbors, including Georgia. “We will never be neighbors to the United States, whatever happens… We can be partners and we should be partners [with the United States] but we will never be neighbors, and the closest economic integration is possible when people live next door,” Medvedev said.

According to Medvedev, Russia, Belarus and Kazakhstan, who united into the Customs Union, already have had a chance to feel the benefits of integration. “As soon as we created it [the Customs Union], trade turnover with both Kazakhstan and Belarus increased by an average of 40-50 percent, and even more in some sectors, and it gave extra stability to our trade and economic relations,” Medvedev added.

[TSJones]

To spout advice, experience or knowledge is not a prerequisite

College courses wisdom is the same as well . 9 out 10 Nobel Economists are in University of Chicago, but south side of Chicago is worse than Mumbai slums.Nor is the US economy in a rosy path. I wonder what wisdom can be used to rationalize

Now there is an analogy that makes sense.

Puleeeze.....I've lived in Chicago and been to the southside many times and here are a few features of southside Chicago:

Electricity 24x7, year in, year out.
Public sanitation, all housing has a flush toilet, all trash is hauled away by the city.
All housing has potable tap water.
All housing has a refrigerator.
All citizens on welfare are eligible for free cell phones paid for by a special tax on the rest of the cell phone users in the US.
Food security provided by SNAP program, WIC (women, infants and children) program and private charity food banks in case of an emergency.
All children at public schools from pre school until 18 years of age with free text books and most have use of computers.
All children at public schools are provided free breakast and free lunch.
All children are bused to school if need be.
All children are assessed for "special education" and instruction if needed.
Medical care provided by public city hospitals and medicaid.
Good public transportation compared to most US cities.

yet....they shoot and kill each other (and anyone else stupid enough to wander into their territory) with amazing regularity. Many are functionally illiterate and hooked on drugs. Then we warehouse them in vast prisons where they are provide three hot meals meals a day and medical care and more educational programs and they still manage to rape and kill each other.

That about got it covered?

[abhischekcc]

From Rangarajan onwards, almost all RBI governors have been ex-IMF or WB. This trend started with Bimal Jalan.

Trend started with Moanmohan Singh.

[Austin]

but south side of Chicago is worse than Mumbai slums.

I would be surprised if that were to be true as I have been to many Mumbai Slums and seen it first hand.

Have you every visited any slums in Mumbai ?

[Austin]

China to overtake India as world’s top gold consumer ( RT )

China’s consumption of gold in the first half of the year surged by more than half, data showed. The nation is expected to overtake India as the world's top gold consumer this year. China consumed 706.36 tons of gold in the first half of 2013, up 54 percent from the year-ago period, the China Gold Association (CGA) said Monday. It consumed 832.18 tons in all of 2012 and about 460 tons in the first half of 2012. India's consumption this year is expected to be lower than last year's 860 tons.

[Austin]

Red October: China to overtake US as world’s largest oil importer – EIA

"It is only a matter of time for China to surpass the US in net oil imports. The most important thing is to find solutions as the largest oil importer China will be very vulnerable to oil price changes," said Lin Boqiang, director of the China Center for Energy Economics Research at Xiamen University.

[vishvak]

China to overtake India as world’s top gold consumer ( RT )

China’s consumption of gold in the first half of the year surged by more than half, data showed. The nation is expected to overtake India as the world's top gold consumer this year. China consumed 706.36 tons of gold in the first half of 2013, up 54 percent from the year-ago period, the China Gold Association (CGA) said Monday. It consumed 832.18 tons in all of 2012 and about 460 tons in the first half of 2012. India's consumption this year is expected to be lower than last year's 860 tons.

Guess the Chinese don't care about being called goldbugs. No cautious voices thrown around like candies in a fair here. Wonder why European countries and USA don't sell all gold deposits to Chinese. The currencies are not backed by gold and after all its just gold no? Shows Chinese gold badgers don't care.
OT : The Crazy Nastyass Honey Badger (original narration by Randall)

[svinayak]

This China demand is created by the govt and not by the people
One more example which shows that the govt is involved in demand generation and demand is not by the people.

[Austin]

More like propping up its gold reserves before they make up their mind over Yuan Full Convertibility.

But the size of Economy that China is its gold reserves are still far lower compared to few other much smaller European Economy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_reserve

[TSJones]

Red October: China to overtake US as world’s largest oil importer – EIA

"It is only a matter of time for China to surpass the US in net oil imports. The most important thing is to find solutions as the largest oil importer China will be very vulnerable to oil price changes," said Lin Boqiang, director of the China Center for Energy Economics Research at Xiamen University.

This is a statistic we will gladly let China take over. We want to be a net exporter of energy. For us, ever increasing marginal efficiency and efficacy is the name of the game. Yes, it's a slow, laborious process but it's a winning process.

I might also add that Chinese thieving is finally starting to take media notice here in the US.

http://www.jsonline.com/news/wisconsin/ ... 33851.html

I hope that multi-national corporations that are nominally American or at least claim to be American when they run into trouble overseas understand that doing business with the Chinese means they will eventually wind up being a used bitch for the Chinese, like MN corps like Google, etc., have already found out. I can't wait for Apple to be put over a barrel and hosed by the Chinese. It will happen, just give it time.

It is instructive to note that Elon Musk and SpaceX won't even file patents with the US patent office because of the Chinese. Why hand the Chinese a play book?

[Austin]

When it comes to stealing US is no different then Chinese , that is exactly what NSA does with all the global internet sucking vacuum in the guise of preventing Terrorism it is just indulging in Industrial & Diplomatic Espionage. US conveniently uses its media to blame the Chinese of such acts when it does the same on Global Scale case of pot calling the kettle black.

As far a US relying less of its external resource for Energy , Its possible if Shale succeeds but the jury is still open as major Shale companies are in red but its still a open question , may be it may just click.

In fact according to US EIA China has the largest source of Shale Gas so even Chinese also has an equal potential to succeed in internal energy source.

[TSJones]

When it comes to stealing US is no different then Chinese , that is exactly what NSA does with all the global internet sucking vacuum in the guise of preventing Terrorism it is just indulging in Industrial & Diplomatic Espionage. US conveniently uses its media to blame the Chinese of such acts when it does the same on Global Scale case of pot calling the kettle black.

As far a US relying less of its external resource for Energy , Its possible if Shale succeeds but the jury is still open as major Shale companies are in red but its still a open question , may be it may just click.

In fact according to US EIA China has the largest source of Shale Gas so even Chinese also has an equal potential to succeed in internal energy source.

Please cite where a US company has outright stolen from a foreign company. Please don't don't cite Steve Jobs of Apple stealing his ideas from Xerox because Xerox is another US company, not foreign. It figures that you would consider the US to be morally equivilent to China. So far the US government does not indulge in economic espionage. We don't have to.

It's not just shale that the US can develop but also the mandated MPG efficiency Detroit is under for its cars by 2021 or 2022. It's our quest for tech efficiency that will get us there.

[member_27444]

Mum is the word

The number of German companies considering the US as a high-risk for industrial espionage and data theft has quadrupled in 2 years, according to an Ernst and Young study. The US left Russia behind, as the Snowden revelations ate into America's profile.

The portion of German managers, IT and security professionals, saying the US was a dangerous place for industrial espionage grew to 26% in 2013 from just 6% two years earlier, according to the survey conducted by Ernst and Young (EY).
“Until now [German companies] mostly identified China and Russia as the location of [potential] attackers. Now companies realise that western intelligence agencies also employ very comprehensive surveillance measures,” Bodo Meseke, executive director of fraud investigation and dispute services at EY, said.


In the latest survey, that covered 400 companies across Germany, 28% said China was the riskiest place, Financial Times (FT) reports. Russia was ranked third with 12% concerned about a threat it poses, the Financial Times (FT) reports.

ofcourse Grermany is the axis of evil to tarnish the image of innocenti US name

[Theo_Fidel]

TSJ,

Not recent, but when the USA was going through its similar industrialization moment it stole freely from the IP of European countries. Recollect what happened to the Diamler patent, Oil refining patents, etc. So no angels the USA, but the difference is that the USA also gave back so much to the world. This is where the Chinese IP stealing is truly odious, to take so much and refuse give back……

[TSJones]

Mum is the word

The number of German companies considering the US as a high-risk for industrial espionage and data theft has quadrupled in 2 years, according to an Ernst and Young study. The US left Russia behind, as the Snowden revelations ate into America's profile.

The portion of German managers, IT and security professionals, saying the US was a dangerous place for industrial espionage grew to 26% in 2013 from just 6% two years earlier, according to the survey conducted by Ernst and Young (EY).
“Until now [German companies] mostly identified China and Russia as the location of [potential] attackers. Now companies realise that western intelligence agencies also employ very comprehensive surveillance measures,” Bodo Meseke, executive director of fraud investigation and dispute services at EY, said.


In the latest survey, that covered 400 companies across Germany, 28% said China was the riskiest place, Financial Times (FT) reports. Russia was ranked third with 12% concerned about a threat it poses, the Financial Times (FT) reports.

ofcourse Grermany is the axis of evil to tarnish the image of innocenti US name

Please cite an example, not opinion polls?

[TSJones]

TSJ,

Not recent, but when the USA was going through its similar industrialization moment it stole freely from the IP of European countries. Recollect what happened to the Diamler patent, Oil refining patents, etc. So no angels the USA, but the difference is that the USA also gave back so much to the world. This is where the Chinese IP stealing is truly odious, to take so much and refuse give back……

The US court system alone causes headaches for any US company under its jurisdiction. Then there is the Foreign Corrupt Practices act another US law, which Walmart recently fell afoul of in Mexico. Search far and wide to find similar restrictions in other countries on their corporations. See what foreign companies are being accused of bribery by the Chinese authorities.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/12/busin ... .html?_r=0

If a US company commits bribery in China it could also face charges in the US jurisdiction.

But back to Apple. They're gonna get their hosing. It's just a matter of time until the Chinese really works them over. I hope Apple set up research departments in China just like Google did. heh, heh, that'll do it.

I read that the Chinese recently set up a research lab in Silicon Valley. They're trying to hire researchers working at other labs there. This should be interesting. I can't wait.

[member_27444]

Snowdden is at work just you wait and see dont disturb till then, continue advise.

[TSJones]

Snowdden is at work just you wait and see dont disturb till then, continue advise.

And you have still presented no current, on going economic espionage by the US other than innuendo and conspiracy theory ala Soviet style.

[Austin]

Please cite where a US company has outright stolen from a foreign company. Please don't don't cite Steve Jobs of Apple stealing his ideas from Xerox because Xerox is another US company, not foreign. It figures that you would consider the US to be morally equivilent to China. So far the US government does not indulge in economic espionage. We don't have to.

US companies dont steal they are aided by US intelligence

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/820758.stm

CIA director James Woolsey, in an article in March for the Wall Street Journal, acknowledged that the US did conduct economic espionage against its European allies, though he did not specify if Echelon was involved.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-histor ... ty/5338982

The French claimed they had lost a $1.4 billion deal to supply Brazil with a radar system because the NSA shared details of the negotiations with Raytheon. Airbus may have lost a contract worth $2 billion to Boeing and McDonnell Douglas because of information intercepted and passed on by the agency.

According to former NSA agent Wayne Madsen, the US used information gathered from its bases in Australia to win a half share in a significant Indonesian trade contract for AT&T. Communication intercepts showed the contract was initially going to a Japanese firm.

http://rt.com/news/nsa-latin-america-spying-867/

The US government retrieved key data on a number of issues including the oil market, drugs trade and political movements. Colombia is a top priority for the US, registering the most spy activity, with Mexico, Venezuela and Brazil following closely behind. In addition, Argentina, Ecuador, Panama, Costa Rica, Nicaragua, Honduras, Paraguay, Chile, Peru and El Salvador are under surveillance, though to a lesser degree.

These are just some example past and recent and if Snowden data revels more in days ahead we would come to know of US Industrial Espionage.

[TSJones]

Guess the Chinese don't care about being called goldbugs. No cautious voices thrown around like candies in a fair here. Wonder why European countries and USA don't sell all gold deposits to Chinese. The currencies are not backed by gold and after all its just gold no? Shows Chinese gold badgers don't care.
OT : The Crazy Nastyass Honey Badger (original narration by Randall)

Why should we sell all of our gold? Why should we sell all of any commodity that we have stockpiled? Just on your say so?