Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

[Neela]

SA Iyer says 1000 Muslims died. The problem with these morons is that they want to be taken seriously and try too hard at it. The hard journalistic reality is that he has some basic facts wrong . That speaks for integrity, honesty and ethics. He may not have acted on Congress's whip but erring on serious issues makes him a liar.
Ignore and move on.

[Neela]

The equivalent of SA Iyer's 1000 Muslim deaths is when Sanku talks about smooth bore guns in Armored VEhicles thread. Everything else is seen through the eyes on this single blunder!

[member_20317]

VVV I agree. Hence edited/deleted.

And let me make this bandwidth useful

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/new ... 904055.cms

"In Gujarat too, 20-25% Muslims voted for the BJP. We should reach out to them everywhere," a BJP leader quoted him as telling a one-day conclave to work out the party's war strategy for Lok Sabha and assembly elections.

Is this the first time that we are getting this confirmation?

[Lilo]

-del-

[VikramS]

I have heard numbers as high as 31%

[kapilrdave]

Err. SA Iyer has said absolutely nothing that we don't know. Anyone and everyone would understand all those things. The important thing is to propose or speculate the solutions based on one's own research. Saying he is taking a bet etc. is IMO giving him more credit than that article deserves.

[Atri]

Of course, there is.. There may be a second and final Soosai of LKA. I hope it either happens after GE2014 or now (which is improbable). Soosai-1 of this ghatotkacha relieved NDA of ppl like JDU. His final Soosai will relieve BJP and Namo of some prominent dilli-billis.. He has enough sense about when to go Boom...

Atri Ji, he doesn't have to go boom. He rid BJP of Jackal Kulkarni without doing anything.

Sushupti ji, SK was an outsider without any support from cadres. He was a liability and at he most he could do is tweet. There are many dilli billis who are influential (may be due to their links in delhi's coctails circuit). Not all of them are against Indic revival, but it is essential to have ppl who could keep the outsiders linked to this privileged deewan-e-khaas.

Its mathematically complex. Some cards are to be preserved.

NM may have the chance of rectifying some of the systemic mistakes of JLN. He may be the Patel (an asura like JLN) we deserved. And unlike MKG, the moral equivalent of the org, the RSS, did not pussyfoot from backing him.

NaMo represents a solution. The article by Swami iyer suggests that there are large sections of society, both rich and poor, where the knowledge and extent of current economic, demographic, political, judicial, social phuckup that is India today, has not dawned. People will value solution more after problem presents itself like Ravana with 10 heads and 20 hands and amrit kumbha in navel. This is where Rama becomes larger than life and acceptable to devatas who start supporting him openly.

I have contested the claim of 156 seats for BJP. I think they will go up to 190-200. Rajjubhaiyya ji was sidelined by larger than life image of ABV and LKA and clever media and poll management of Pramod Mahajan. Thankfully today MB is almost of same age as NM and is as assertive as Deoras ji. So I think they will not allow the emergence of ppl like Mahajan in the system when they have to sit in opposition after winning 190 odd seats. Whatever Aiyer says will be null and void in 2016 when public will realize to the last person that India is in the SNAFU situation.

[SwamyG]

Very long article.

Modi’s ‘allied worldview’: Realpolitik or Gandhian folly?

by Radha Rajan

......
Three less-known facts about recent events in Tamil Nadu which Modi should know because they best exemplify Jayalalithaa’s Politics of Minority-ism:

1. Tamil Nadu government and Innocence of Muslims

2. Tamil Nadu government announcing memorials for “freedom fighters” Tipu Sultan and Hyder Ali

3. Tamil Nadu government embarrassing the Director-General of Police in the exact same manner and for exact same reasons as the UPA government embarrassed the Army Chief after the Poonch ambush


http://www.vijayvaani.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?aid=2914

I very much called out JJ in this long post of mine: http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 6#p1403196. Well in the world of realpolitiks and Chankiyan, Modi has to court people like CBN, JJ, BSY, Sadhu, ityadi...... I am sure if Nitish comes back tucking his tail and mends fences, everyone will forget - because INC has to be defeated.

If I were to bet, I would not give a clean chit to JJ for the Viswaroopam hungama. She either incited TMMK or used them for her goals. It is the same JJ who rolled back her previous anti-religious conversion act. None of these regional politicians stand for anything large - it is all parochial/caste/clan based agenda onlee. Sometimes it does sound very depressing.

I will repeat she does have a 'Hindutva' streak in her, but she is unreliable like the bloke Subramanian Swamy.

[kapilrdave]

I have contested the claim of 156 seats for BJP. I think they will go up to 190-200. Rajjubhaiyya ji was sidelined by larger than life image of ABV and LKA and clever media and poll management of Pramod Mahajan. Thankfully today MB is almost of same age as NM and is as assertive as Deoras ji. So I think they will not allow the emergence of ppl like Mahajan in the system when they have to sit in opposition after winning 190 odd seats. Whatever Aiyer says will be null and void in 2016 when public will realize to the last person that India is in the SNAFU situation.

+1008

I was bit disappointed by Rajjubhaiyya and Sudarshanji's term. But I have high hopes from MB. In fact I have more hopes from him than NM. While NM will work from political front, MB will work at social level. This is as good a combination as one can dream of. Bharatmata needed this badly.

[Adrija]

Rajjubhaiyya ji was sidelined by larger than life image of ABV and LKA and clever media and poll management of Pramod Mahajan

Atri ji, if I may- an additional perspective could also be about the organizational dynamics.......in the RSS hierarchy deferring to one's elders is scrupulously observed.......Balasaheb certainly, and to a lesser extent Rajju bhaiya, were senior to the two gentlemen and hence could naturally command respect, whereas Sudarshanji was a contemporary to ABV and LKA in particular....

MBji is senior to all the pracharaks and the karyakartas who are on deputation from the Sangh to the BJP, and that is also contributing to the recent dynamics, wherein there is no friction in deferring to the Sangh's overall guidance

JM 2p

[Sanku]

Err. SA Iyer has said absolutely nothing that we don't know. Anyone and everyone would understand all those things. The important thing is to propose or speculate the solutions based on one's own research. Saying he is taking a bet etc. is IMO giving him more credit than that article deserves.

I personally give a lot of credit to SA Iyer on his economics, he has been one of the most constant and continuous trenchant critics of the tomfoolery masquerading as socialism of UPA I/II.

His political acumen is no less sharp, he is well connected and understands a lot. So disagreeing with him is one thing, dismissing him another, but name calling etc is quite off the course.

[kapilrdave]

Name calling???

[Neela]

How did he get the 1000 number? Hey ...he is well connected...how about him giving his connections a call and get them numbers right eh? If he is willing to lie about a straight-forward , easy-to-get fact, what does that tell about his integrity?

I guess for some , standards are really low - all praise for political acumen when in short, what SA Iyer does, is give out a prophecy with a customary dig at Guj. 2002.
Political acumen...
"He has criticized UPA's policies and so is creditable" - another of those gold standards which journos (and some others too apparently) must aspire to.

How does SA Iyer know Modi rules with a Iron Fist? Did he experience it first hand up his? Why aren't bureaucrats in Gujarat complaining then?
That article is meant to portray a picture of Modi and it does that - on some!

Please.....there are very few out there who can command respect ....Tavleen, Kanchan, Madhu (Trehan) . There don't spare no one.

[Hari Seldon]

^+1 Neela garu. good one. 'bout time someone called out SAI's posturing for what it is.

[Hari Seldon]

from twitter:

>>@firstpostin: Congress removes Bihar leader Sadhu Yadav over his meeting with Narendra Modi and his comments on the BJP leader | CNN-IBN

Would be nice if NM gives a statement saying he has nothing to do with sadhuY or his statements.

[Sanku]

Name calling???

By some other Kapil ji.

[Muppalla]

from twitter:

>>@firstpostin: Congress removes Bihar leader Sadhu Yadav over his meeting with Narendra Modi and his comments on the BJP leader | CNN-IBN

Would be nice if NM gives a statement saying he has nothing to do with sadhuY or his statements.

The beauty is that NM does not give any statements. This Sadhu thing is overplayed by everyone but and his utility for him probably is over. NaMo's team is working to make groups that are anti-BJP to become un-aligned. The un-aligned will be captured by the 10 per booth volunteers to get more votes to BJP. Not everything is pre-poll.

[Sanku]

Please.....there are very few out there who can command respect ....Tavleen, Kanchan, Madhu (Trehan) . There don't spare no one.

Please much as I respect them, Kanchan is completely in the Pro BJP camp, Tavleen and Madhu are welcome additions, but they they are not ideologically aligned to BJP or RSS or even Modi. They have discovered Modi recently, and while their pro Modi publicity is welcome, let us remember them for what they are.

Also there is shooting of the messenger here, SAI says

Indian Muslims hate him for complicity in the killing of over 1,000 Muslims in the 2002 Gujarat riots. They do not believe the leopard will change its spots as Prime Minister.

The above is no doubt true. Indian Muslims by and large do believe that NaMo was complicit and over 1000 Muslims were killed? Do I know this as a "fact" -- no I can not publish a survey backing this, but I think it should be self evident truth on BRF?

SAI has correctly mentioned the hurdles that NaMo has, at worst we can say there is nothing new + slightly tasteless song. What I do not get is the anger against SAI for the article and points.

I will reiterate again. It would be a mistake to not accept the real challenges. That does not mean we need to agree with SAI's conclusion, but the anger it generates is IMVHO not healthy.

[SaiK]

I think Modi should focus on the right and wrong aspects than muslims vs hindu and christian. That model will work for him, as the voting young minds is what going to make the next elections.

[member_20317]

Also there is shooting of the messenger here, SAI says

Indian Muslims hate him for complicity in the killing of over 1,000 Muslims in the 2002 Gujarat riots. They do not believe the leopard will change its spots as Prime Minister.

I think what he did was he added the missing to the figure of dead overall and subtract the confirmed Hindu death. For the missing there is no religion wise data in public domain. So technically he cannot be faulted by the Hindutva vaadis. Also he knew he would confuse the NaMo voters (non Hindutvavaadi section) by slipping in words like "complicity in the killing".

A person as smart as S. A. Iyer cannot be presumed to not have double-checked on the matter of loose ends.

I guess SAI should be allowed his say. People should be left to believe whatever they are comfortable with. But that complicity bit was under the belt and that is my belief.


..................................

790/698 Muslims and 254 Hindus = 1044 people killed, before the missing were declared dead.

A total of 223 people are said to be missing.

[Sanku]

But that complicity bit was underhand and that is my belief.

ravi_g, he is speaking that Indian Muslims think in xyz way, and not that NaMo is complicit. He has left it vague but that is fine. He is no intelligent to say something as stupid as to allude to charges of complicity when the SIT has shown that there is no shred of evidence. At the same time to say overtly "Indian Muslims blame him without proof..." would be too much to ask for?

As Atri-ji says, SAI is pointing to the perception issues. Let us not think they dont exist.

NaMo needs to get BJP to 200+ WITH these barriers, that would be proof that the counter polarization is working.

Nothing but a significant counter polarization and consolidation in the Hindu fold offers a solution out of the current morass. We need to remind ourselves that over and over again. This is aar paar ki ladai (decisive battle) -- I would preferred to use some koot niti, but now that a full bugle is launched, let us know the task at hand.

[Atri]

Madhu Trehan's interview of Arun Shaurie and Francois Gautier are quite interesting. She is this arya samaji type hindu who has dual allegiance to dilli billi deewan e khaas. Tavleen Singh to be is similarly interesting. Her son's book chapter which Rudradev ji quoted shows that Tavleen too had this holistic view of Hindu civilization.

What i find funny is that why do not these guys see that just like we have siddharth gautam and mahavira or even harishchandra, we also have parshurama, vaaman and krishna and chanakya memes. At the best, they might be fearing 1857 redux. At worst, they are afraid of the privileges they enjoy for being part of Delhi cocktail circuit. Tavleen Singh has recently written an awesome article in IE on this Dilli Billi deewan-e-khas. This emotion is beautifully captured by Shri ABV in the first verse of this epic poem. Every word is measured and resonates the emotions that I am trying to express in this post, especially the emboldened line. It is funny to see that while they see the ills and while they seem to sympathize with the larger cause, they do not want to see it executed.They remind me of the character Acharya Vararuchi from TV series Chanakya. They act surprised at volcano-eruption, which they acknowledge justifiably exists. Why this "Vismay"?? I fail to understand. Perhaps this is Maya..

मै शंकर का वह क्रोधानल कर सकता जगती क्षार क्षार
डमरू की वह प्रलयध्वनि हूं जिसमे नचता भीषण संहार
रणचंडी की अतृप्त प्यास मै दुर्गा का उन्मत्त हास
मै यम की प्रलयंकर पुकार जलते मरघट का धुँवाधार
फिर अंतरतम की ज्वाला से जगती मे आग लगा दूं मै
यदि धधक उठे जल थल अंबर जड चेतन तो कैसा विस्मय
हिन्दु तन मन हिन्दु जीवन रग रग हिन्दु मेरा परिचय॥

Arya samaj had this emasculation (atleast in the dilli circit) after murder of shraddhananda by a faithfool in 1920s. This was cemented by massacres of 1947 and 1984. Sikh massacre of 84 is a sad chapter not only for obvious reasons but also because this emaciated Hindu sword arm greatly. It was revenge of 1947 on Sikhs by GV-based mulla/politician lobby. On the side note, it is a sad comment on the relations between Ganga and Sindhu valley in play ever since 1818. Thankfully now the Agniveer etc are reinvigorating the spirits of Arya Samajis.

The basic point of RJB and now the aggressive and angry "internet hindu"l ralying behind Namo is precisely expressed by our former Poet-PM. While people like Madhu Trehan find the hindu anger just, its manifestation as happened on 6-12-1992 and post Godhra, is what gets their goats.

[Supratik]

Economy may be headed for dark days. May put all calculations topsy-turvy.

[panduranghari]

Economy may be headed for dark days. May put all calculations topsy-turvy.

The video basically states that the US (and thus UK) economy will dip down into next year rebound and then get absolutely slaughtered at the end of 2015.

This isn't going to end well. And the thing is, when we implode, we will be alongside most other western countries. France, Germany, Japan and the US are either following us down into the Sovereign debt crisis pit, or are ahead of us.

The 10 headed 20 armed Ravana is waiting in the wings.

[devesh]

Atri ji, it's classic bhishma/drona syndrome. They know its evil but refuse to do anything concrete about it. Situation is remarkably like MB.

[KJo]

I hope Modi won't fall into the same trap of needing to appease Muslims. Almost all our politicians do it and Modi has been making noises in that direction.

[darshhan]

Sanku ji is right. Narendra Modi and team still have to put in huge amount of work in order to cross 200 seats. No doubt there is a tremendous wave in Narendra Modi's favour. But one has to remember that India is not a presidential style democracy. On the voting day People will eventually be voting for a certain candidate and Narendra Modi or any other prime ministerial candidate. Secondly, awareness in rural areas about Namo is still low, albeit rising very fast courtesy younger generation. As of now there are two critical tasks in front of Namo and team where important effort has to be made.

1. Connecting with rural population through the use of Rallies/3d technology etc.
2. Identifying the right candidates for the targeted constituencies who are also popular. An optimal mechanism which directs electorate's feedback in this regard will be of utmost importance.

The second point will be very important in caste divided states like UP and Bihar.

And Namo's team has to do this all while maintaining his security.

These are by no means trivial tasks. But then who else apart from Namo can achieve these objectives.

[Lilo]

I hope Modi won't fall into the same trap of needing to appease Muslims. Almost all our politicians do it and Modi has been making noises in that direction.

Kjo ji don't get influenced by titles the rags give to their farticles ... Its their spin to target the core supporters of bhajapa

Modi has consistently stood for equal treatment to all with appeasement to none. Just because he said that Muslims too vote for Bjp and asked his supporters not to overlook them in their booth level efforts doesn't mean that he suddenly has started muslim appeasement as claimed by the sikular rags.

[krisna]

I have heard numbers as high as 31%

Overall in Gujarat it is over 25-30%


In places where BJP candidates won with significant muslim population it is over 60% of their population.

sunnis are the most resistant, Bohras etc and other forward looking muslims are most enthusiastic about NaMo.

[Muppalla]

2. Identifying the right candidates for the targeted constituencies who are also popular. An optimal mechanism which directs electorate's feedback in this regard will be of utmost importance.

NaMo's team is really really working on this. This is also the place where he gets maximum criticism as some "compromise" of idealogy. But they are really agressive in getting to single point focus of defeating INC.

[abhishek_sharma]

Faking News: 7 places where the missing coalgate files could be

While many think that the government has destroyed the files related to coal allotment scam, Faking News is willing to trust the honesty and integrity of the government. Our think-tank believes that these files, numbered around 60, could be temporarily missing due to following reasons:


Some activists are seen here trying to find out the missing files


1. Former Law Minister Ashwini Kumar is doing a spell-check on the files and they will be returned after removing all spelling and grammatical mistakes. Yes, only spelling and grammatical mistakes will be corrected, nothing else will be changed.

2. The files went out for a walk and RSS workers kidnapped them. Digvijay Singh agrees with Faking News for the first time. He believes that the files could be lying in the Nagpur headquarter of the organization whose hand is behind everything.

3. They are safe and secure in Gujarat. Digvijay Singh doesn’t agree but his haters agree. Files were rescued by Narendra Modi because he feared that the government will tamper with them. They will be handed over to the CBI once BJP comes to power after winning 272 seats of her own.

4. Arvind Kejriwal and Prashant Bhushan are studying them. They had asked for copies of these files through RTI, but the concerned ministries goofed up and sent them the original files. They will return them in a press conference not covered by any news channel.

5. Rahul Gandhi ran out of papers to make airplanes and thus these files were supplied from the Prime Minister’s Office. Since paper planes don’t fly too far away, they will be collected and put together once the young Gandhi is done with his origami lessons.

6. They have been inadvertently given to the local copier at Race Course Road. Blank sheets meant for printing Prime Minister’s speeches are regularly supplied to the local copier. The copier should return them if the files are printed on both sides of the paper.

7. They are in Pakistan. Government sent another round of dossiers condemning the latest LoC incursions and included these files by mistake. Pakistan would return them after taking notes on how to conduct a scam in their own country.

[KJo]

I hope Modi won't fall into the same trap of needing to appease Muslims. Almost all our politicians do it and Modi has been making noises in that direction.

Kjo ji don't get influenced by titles the rags give to their farticles ... Its their spin to target the core supporters of bhajapa

Modi has consistently stood for equal treatment to all with appeasement to none. Just because he said that Muslims too vote for Bjp and asked his supporters not to overlook them in their booth level efforts doesn't mean that he suddenly has started muslim appeasement as claimed by the sikular rags.

Thanks, great points!
Modiji should stick to his principles without compromise. That is the only way. If he bends, he will be any other politician.

[member_20317]

I think the rats ate the file.

.......................

Yes Sanku ji, I believe we should work towards what we want. That is why I kept my quite even on things that were rather plain to see and some of my gurujan had alluded to. I still do not say these things on this thread. Alas people do not take me seriously but had they, I would have done much more.

.......................

The Muslim vote if it is so substantial then it along with the Development Simpliciter ('DS') crowd, should be listened to. The Hindu protection agenda is understood by the DS crowd also. And I am sure a few of the Muslims would be willing to look at आपसी-सौहार्दय, ie. (Mutual understanding) instead of Muslim Massail.

I mean its not like the Hindu hardliners cannot negotiate things.

Just thinking aloud.

[Sushupti]

[Vikas]

^ Who is the Patriach ?

[Supratik]

Disappearance of coalgate files suggest panic at the prospect of NM coming to power. They have become blatant. Need to be kicked out.

[Supratik]

^ Who is the Patriach ?

LKA I guess and foster son SK. NM should override both if he wants to win.

[Sanku]

How is posting of some random nonsense by a random nobody on twitter remotely adding to the value of the discussion.

This is the sort of nonsense which destroys threads.

[Supratik]

How is posting of some random nonsense by a random nobody on twitter remotely adding to the value of the discussion.

This is the sort of nonsense which destroys threads.

Well even if it is nonsense there is no denying the fact that SK and his mentor LKA are not batting for their own team.

[Sanku]

How is posting of some random nonsense by a random nobody on twitter remotely adding to the value of the discussion.

This is the sort of nonsense which destroys threads.

Well even if it is nonsense there is no denying the fact that SK and his mentor LKA are not batting for their own team.

That conclusion would be extremely hasty, SK was after all, kicked out.