BR Forum Feedback

sudarshan · Post by **sudarshan** » 14 Jun 2013 23:54

Rajesh sir, I read through your post in detail, and I see the method behind your responses to Wong. You were following a certain line of reasoning and calibrating your responses accordingly. It's unfortunate that it got perceived as 'baiting a troll,' and it's understandable that you feel hurt.

What has happened has happened. Why spoil the future because of that? Lets just learn some more nuanced approaches to handling trolls within the framework of forum rules. God knows Wong isn't the last troll who's going to be stalking the deep dark woods of BRF.

member_26147 · Post by **member_26147** » 15 Jun 2013 00:00

self-deleted.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 15 Jun 2013 00:07

Acharya wrote:="Arihant"]
abhishek_sharma wrote:^ +1. No need to stop posting.
Having sown dissension in enemy ranks, the Chinese troll army would now be patting themselves on the back.....Indians are fools to take the bait!

18 odd Cheeni drones can shut the forum using this "techinci". If Cheeni come , Paki wont be far behind. But Then Rajesh might require his fingers to rest in his warm nest to come up with his next best to tease the Pest of Peeking.

Arjun · Post by **Arjun** » 15 Jun 2013 06:37

RajeshA ji, a number of threads on the forum benefit by your presence. Do hope you are going to continue...

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 15 Jun 2013 15:04

the best way to deal with a lot of the noise is just to ignore it

johneeG · Post by **johneeG** » 18 Jun 2013 21:12

** Deleted **

RajeshA saar,
from the days of lurking, I have avidly read your posts and learnt a lot consequently. Please do continue. Your out-of-box ideas are always intellectually stimulating. Don't let petty things distract you. Please keep posting.

sudarshan · Post by **sudarshan** » 19 Jun 2013 02:47

** Deleted **

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 19 Jun 2013 09:08

I would ask members to desist from passing judgements or discussing actions of the Admins.

member_20317 · Post by **member_20317** » 19 Jun 2013 10:19

RajeshA ji pls do keep your .brf mail id on. And if possible let me have your personal mail ID.

...........................

Hey Admin dev mujhe aur bhanumati ke kunbe ko abhaydaan dijiye.

And pls advise when that 1 warning will expire that you bestowed upon me. The FAQ does not seem to have an answer for that. Seeing that one warning on my User Control Panel makes me feel like I am a Sun Tuz.

Pls tell me this is not a kala kalank that I cannot wash away and I will have to live with this paap the way Ashwathama had to live, forever.

...........................

Also wish there as an Advance Ruling or Adjudication, kind of facility to run some ideas by the admins.

Will · Post by **Will** » 22 Jun 2013 16:59

Link not working:

http://bharat-rakshak.com/NEWS/newsrf.php?newsid=20232

Samay · Post by **Samay** » 23 Jun 2013 11:28

One request for the Admins here to please start a thread on 'Uttrakhand disaster,reasons and the role of the Armed forces in rescue'.

Its a hunch or some wild guess but i believe that the GoI/UPA with media groups is hiding the exact picture of the disaster and causes for votebank. Also it must be recorded via pictures/videos the role of the armed forces in rescue..

looking forward for your positive response..

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 23 Jun 2013 13:02

Samay, there is a 'India Natural Disaster Management' thread available here. You may use it.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 01 Jul 2013 19:35

disha · Post by **disha** » 06 Jul 2013 12:58

Regarding bans., is there a comprehensive rule on handing out bans by BR Admin or is it crafted by BR admin on the go?

For eg.., this was a post by RahulM in 2009

...
posters are usually requested to self moderate themselves when they go out of line (like attacking other posters/communities based on race/religion etc or derailment of thread, i.e going off topic repeatedly)

official warnings are comparatively rare and issued only when a poster shows marked reluctance to comply with requests.
and the ban prcedure goes something like this :

3 official warnings in a 6 month period --> 1 month ban
+1 ---do--- --> 3 month ban
+1 ---do--- --> permanent ban.

all warnings become ineffective after 6 months.

Is the above still valid or is there a change in the pattern?

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 06 Jul 2013 14:43

Generally, this is the rule. In rare cases, there can be exceptions.

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 11 Jul 2013 21:08

Pratap Bhanu Mehta's excellent article posted by Arjun (xposted below) is a great example of how one can make a very good politically tinged post here. It focusses on issues and failures. It completely avoids cheap ad hominems or, on the other end, hero worshipping - something that's often a tiresome moderation problem all over BRF.

Arjun wrote:Fantastic article from Pratap Bhanu Mehta. Time for all thinkers to make their voices heard if the country is to be saved. See the parts in bold for sections relevant to this thread:

While we were silent
Pratap Bhanu Mehta : Thu Jul 11 2013, 04:26 hrs

A story of destructive governance and citizens who did not speak out

First, the UPA came for the roads sector. They destroyed contracting. They slowed down road construction. They left highways half built. We did not speak out. After all, the only reason the NDA could have started the golden quadrilateral is because they wanted to spread Hindutva.

Next, they came for the airline sector. They let Air India suck more money from taxpayers. They let bad regulation destroy the private sector. They let crony banking sustain bad bets. They ensured India would never be an aviation hub. We did not speak out. After all, flying is what birds do, not humans. Besides, aviation is bad for climate change.

Then they came for the power sector.They confused creation of mega capacities with actual generation. They had no rational pricing plans. They were arbitrary in the awarding of licences. They could not make up their mind whether they wanted to protect the environment or destroy it. We did not speak out. After all, the only power that matters is political. Electricity be damned.

Then they came for education. They promulgated the RTE after 100 per cent enrolment. They expanded capacity, but cut-offs still rose. They regulated in such a way that there was a glut in some subjects and a shortage in others. They confused university buildings with building universities. We did not speak out. After all our, our low quality education left us incapable of speaking out.

Then they came for industry. They turned the clock back in every way and waged open war. Ensure that regulations become more complex and uncertain. Ensure that input costs rise. Ensure crummy infrastructure. Promulgate a land scam policy known as SEZ and sell it as industrial policy. They encouraged FDI. But they forgot which one they wanted: outbound or inbound. But we did not speak out. After all, India is a rural country.

Then they came for employment. There was some growth. But they decided that the only good employment is that which has the hand of the state. So the NREGA’s expansion was seen as a sign of success, not failure. By its own logic, if more people need the NREGA, the economy has failed. But we did not speak out. After all, the more people we have dependent on government, the more we think it is a good government.

Then they came for agriculture. First, they create artificial shortages through irrigation scams. Then they have a myopic policy for technology adoption. Then they decide India shall remain largely a wheat and rice economy; we will have shortages for everything else. Then they price everything to produce perverse incentives. But we did not speak out. After all, why worry about food production when the government is giving you a legal right? Is there anything more reassuring than social policy designed by and for lawyers?

Then they came for institutions. They always had. This has been Congress DNA for four decades. They drew up a list of institutions that remained unscathed: Parliament, the IB, bureaucracy and you name it. They then went after those. They used institutions as instruments of their political design. They demoralised every single branch of government. But we did not speak out. After all, this was reform by stealth. Destroy government from within.

Then they came for inflation. They confused a GDP target of 10 per cent with an inflation target. Inflation will come down next quarter, we were told. Then they tried to buy us out. Inflation: no problem. Simply get the government to spend even more. Then they pretended inflation is a problem for the rich. Then they simply stopped talking about it. We did not speak out. After all, for some, inflation is just a number.

Then they came for the telecom sector. They got greedy and milked it. They got arbitrary and retrospectively taxed it. But we did not speak out. After all, new communication can be a threat to government. Besides, we can always revert to fixed lines. More digging is good.

Then they came for financial stability. They produced a large deficit. They brought the current account deficit close to an unsustainable point. They nearly wrecked the banking sector. They created every macro-economic instability you can imagine, which makes investment difficult. But we did not speak out. After all, what would you rather have: macro economic stability or a free lunch?

Then they came for regulation.It was back to the 1970s. More arbitrary regulation is good. More rules are good. Uncertainty makes business more adept. The answer to every administrative problem is enacting a new law. Multiple regulators are good because they represent the diversity of India. We did not speak out. After all, just like the religious confuse piety with mere ritual, the virtuous confuse regulation with outcomes.

Then they came after freedom. They promulgated more restrictive rules for everything: freedom of expression, right to assembly and protest, foreign scholars. They used sedition laws. They kept the architecture of colonial laws intact. They said they stood against communal forces. But then they let Digvijaya Singh keep the communal pot boiling. They matched BJP’s communal politicisation of terrorism at every step and then some. We did not speak out. After all, if they are not Hindutva forces, they cannot be a threat to peace and liberty.

Then they came for virtue itself. They preached, from the very summit of power: avoid responsibility. It will always be someone else’s fault. They legitimised being corrupt: you are entitled to it if you are the party of the poor. They encouraged subterfuge to the point that members of the cabinet were subverting each other. They pretended that integrity is a word that does not mean anything. To independent thinkers, they said: why think when there is 10 Janpath? We did not speak out. After all, virtue and thinking can both be outsourced.

Then they came for the poor. They visited their houses and slept in their homes. They liked the experience so much they decided to become growth sceptics. Enact policies that keep India in poverty a little longer. But we did not speak out. After all, once the poor have been used as an argument, all else is immobilised.

Then they came for the citizens. They used the secularism blackmail to reduce our choices. If you are not with us you are evil they said. Then they infantilised us. You are not capable of exercising choices so we will make them for you. They acted as if we were so stupid that the three topmost leaders felt no need to justify themselves to us. But we did not speak out. After all we do have the vote.

http://m.indianexpress.com/news/while-w ... t/1140199/

deepan gill · Post by **deepan gill** » 12 Jul 2013 06:45

Jai Shri Ram,

Can we have another section in discussion forum titled as "Conspiracy Theories"?

Thank You

archan · Post by **archan** » 12 Jul 2013 22:39

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 13 Jul 2013 09:26

All theories are conspiracies against facts. JMT

deepan gill · Post by **deepan gill** » 04 Aug 2013 09:24

can we have another discussion board specific to discuss Indian media and social media?

these two mediums cannot be ignored anymore

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 09 Aug 2013 15:22

I am sorry to complain but Sagar G has gone too far.For quite some time he has called me a liar,reg. an issue about the LCA,where I have now provided the details how a highly decorated and respected AM Dy CAS,was deliberately prevented for years becoming the DG of the ADA by vested interests.I have also posted innumerable details from official available on the actual % of indigenisation.If he or anyone else wishes to differ,there is a civilised manner in doing so,not in the disgusting and sickening manner in which he has disgraced not only himself,but also the reputation of the Forum.There are many posters who joust with me ferociously but do not resort to such vile invective and hate.If such posters are allowed to continue in such vein and get away with such absue ,BR is no place to visit for gentlemen and those who have a genuine interest in the security of our nation.Pl. restore the decorum and dignity of BR for everyone's sake.

GeorgeM · Post by **GeorgeM** » 21 Aug 2013 19:44

So what happened to Dr. Shiv. We do not see him anymore in BR

kapilrdave · Post by **kapilrdave** » 21 Aug 2013 19:59

The people I am talking about do not need my support but I want to bring my feeling to the attention of mods. I've been thinking of this since some time and today I think I had enough.

Karan M wrote:
ashashi wrote:How about a dedicated thread for Sanku Maharaj, where only the posts meeting Sanku Standards are allowed?
+10^7. He can debate himself on BRF standards, T-1000 >> Arjun, 125mm smoothbore>>rifled, LCA being bad/HALBad/Yadayada bad, LKA being a saint....and all the other so knowledgeable positions which are beyond us low IQ folks.

In fact BRF needs a separate thread for mocking Sankuji, isn't it? Every time he gives some contrasting idea, invariably someone or other will bring the smoothbore vs rifled, Arjun vs t-90, C-17 etc discussions to mock him (AFAIK he has never said LCA is bad but gave IAF's perspective). How many of us knew about technicalities of smooth/rifled bore, Arjun/t-90, landing issues a transport aircraft may face on rough airfield? I know that there would be so many on BRF who knew all these but I also know that there would be many many more who didn't, that includes me. We should also understand that the military forum is an open forum and can be read by non members as well. Regardless of Sankuji is right or wrong, he has done service to the forum by raising those points and many have learnt from it. Before mocking him at first opportunity just keep in mind that there would have been a Sanku playing in the minds of boffins who designed bore for Arjun, IA officers at the time of ordering Arjun and the IAF officers at the time of ordering C-17. They would have analysed and validated the 'Sanku' of their mind and then taken the decision. What better than having a 'Sanku' of our own on BRF as well? In any case, what's the point of having a discussion forum where contrasting ideas are not allowed?

Now coming to the NM thread where all these repeated Nth time.

Sankuji raised a perfectly valid point against Sushuptiji that he is posting one liners by some unknown person from twitter which is in no way contributing to the discussion. People jumped to this opportunity to mock Sankuji. Here are the few examples.

Anyone can see what LKA is up to (ambition above party interests). Besides which, its ironic, that one of the worst thread wreckers/spammers on BR is now worried about thread quality and is sermonizing away to all of us.

Sanku, you single handedly are enlightening all the lost souls on BRF
Without your guidance BRF would be devoid of any intelligence. Thanks.

I don't see how 11 k plus random and mostly 1 liner posts from a particular random person adds anything here too. 90% of them are barbs on someone else. Rest 9% random projections with a quip BRF ahead of the pack. And the 1% smileys, ROFLs, font changes, caps. Only the remaining percentage of those posts made terrific sense.

I also have had some exchanges with Sankuji. I don't agree to his some of the ideas till date. But we never resorted to personal attacks. Whereas we regularly see unrelated (in terms of discussion) people who are not even part of the exchange gang up against him and abuse.

There is another poster Theo_Fidel whom everyone and anyone would abuse at first opportunity. We all know his religion and his acquaintanceship. But that doesn't mean all should suppress his voice. To me it seemed like people were venting all their anger against the convertism spread by his religion, onto him. That's wrong. You argue him, you ridicule his points in civil manner, all is welcomed. But what they do is ask him the questions like below.

Are you Theo_Fidel going to vote Narendra Modi?

As if only Theo_Fidel out of the 1.2 bil population will not vote for NM. There will be at least more than 50% voters who will not vote for BJP which includes every single religion and caste. What about them? We all know his reason of not voting NM, then what do we get by asking him? Earlier he said "NM is too polarizing" on which all type of hoopla was made. What he said was a fact in many ways, not necessarily in his intended way, but the fact nevertheless. People should have countered in appropriate manner. Theo is a long time contributor on this forum and deserves hell lot more respect than he is getting.

Again saying, these folks don't need support or even sympathy of me. I just wanted to express my rant on an appropriate place.

My do koudi only.

archan · Post by **archan** » 22 Aug 2013 20:28

^^ Much appreciated and acknowledged. You allow one thread with some leeway and you see people asking for an arm and leg.

member_20292 · Post by **member_20292** » 22 Aug 2013 22:29

^^^

on all forums, the central theme becomes a dogma and the forum descends to cultism over time.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 24 Aug 2013 07:19

Kapildave ji, are you sure anybody and everybody - which are mathematically equivalent (at least in common usage) - abuse theo Fidel at "the first opportunity"? It will be instructive to search for counterexamples and her (his?) own views of the "Sicular" or lack thereoff of the said attribute of the majority of the posters on this forum. Thank you, sir.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 25 Aug 2013 23:22

^

mat guru fumbling onlee between there exists (anybody) and for all (everybody) equivalence

/common usage discarded.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 26 Aug 2013 06:47

SaiK saar, "any" x and "all" x is same. If you pick "any" member from a set and prove that it has a property, then it is same as saying that "all" members of that set have that property. Think about it. I do not have a simple example on hand but will "revert back"

onlee sir jee.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 26 Aug 2013 21:36

I was just making you get our math dhaaga active again.. please post there with examples.

now you are bringing in "sets".

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 26 Aug 2013 22:17

Here you go -

http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 8#p1501418

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 28 Aug 2013 06:06

matrimc wrote:Kapildave ji, are you sure anybody and everybody - which are mathematically equivalent (at least in common usage) - abuse theo Fidel at "the first opportunity"? It will be instructive to search for counterexamples and her (his?) own views of the "Sicular" or lack thereoff of the said attribute of the majority of the posters on this forum. Thank you, sir.

A general response, not directed at you specifically, but with the above quoted message as context:

Attack and dissect the message, not the poster. If at all someone posts a characterization that amounts to attacking others, why do posters respond by piling upon him, instead of just reporting the post, optionally informing the poster that you've done so, and backing away from any further discussion within that context ? That would make it SO much easier to clearly identify the problem and act.

Instead, moderators frequently have to wade into what looks like gang warfare and deal with everyone's explanation of what happened. In the end, multiple people get warned despite each of them thinking they're guilty of a 'lesser crime' and take offense. The primary moderator goal is moderating discourse, not necessarily weighing the merits of each person's crime. If you are an active participant in a thread derailment you run the risk of being warned. It's that simple. Your posting record isn't a mitigating factor.

A variant of this is where posters report an egregious post and then participate in the fracas themselves. When later warned or rebuked, they point out that they did report the post, which is pointless by then. That's like calling the police and then proceeding to get involved yourself. The basic protocol is very simple - report an offending post and keep away until action is taken. If nothing happens in a reasonable amount of time, post here and ask about it.

Theo, Sanku or another poster may be misinformed, ignorant or whatever, in your eyes, but maintaining a contrary opinion isn't in itself trolling or baiting - both of them have shown willingness to stand their ground and argue the point. If you cannot agree, the civil thing to do is agree to disagree and terminate further conversation with the person on civil terms. Instead, there's a marked tendency to namecall or otherwise denigrate individuals, both within the forum and outside (e.g. public persons).

Continued difficulty to moderate this forum due to this kind of behavior will, one day, result in all the currently provided controversial threads (i.e. pertaining to politics and/or religion) being summarily deleted, along with the primary participants having their posting privileges revoked as a means to excise the problem. This isn't an idle statement, but borne out of several discussions among moderators in recent months.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 28 Aug 2013 06:30

suraj wrote: A general response, not directed at you specifically, but with the above quoted message as context:

Thanks and for the record, I do not want to report anybody with the hope that the said poster thinks through her posts - she can easily search her own posts - and then correct in the 24 hour window (AFAIK).

I have a christian moniker. Can anybody figure out my real religion?. Same goes for Theo Fidel ji and Sanku ji.

I wil shut up for now lest I am reported.

johneeG · Post by **johneeG** » 28 Aug 2013 10:52

Suraj wrote:
Kakkaji wrote:Suraj {deleted}:

10 years ago the T&E Forum on BRF used to be much more active, and we used to debate vigorously the topics you have mentioned above. I myself used to post several articles from the Economic newspapers. The "Nation on the March" thread used to move at a fast clip. We used to discuss plans about huge additions to infrastructure, new projects etc.

Sorry to say this, but hope has slowly died out. I still scan the 'Economic Times' and the 'Business Standard' every day, but rarely find anything worth posting here.

Even the military forum nowadays has rarely any news of progress. Instead it is only BRF-ites fighting endlessly with each other, in the absence of any good news.

So, just like in Sultanat and Mughal times, people moved towards 'Bhakti' to survive, us BRF-ites have moved towards the GDF forum for time-pass and to survive the tough times.

May the topics dear to you get revived next year.
Please don't call me sir, Kakkaji - though I'll call you ji because that's already in your profile name, and Kakka sounds odd

I don't quite agree with the direction of the forum, though I know that the enthusiasm regarding various important topics has markedly decreased. If that's a reflection of peoples' attention being focussed on politics, that's a pity, because all these problems still remain. There's also been a progressive trend of every discourse being colored by politics, and people judging other posters by their presumed allegiances. This is a toxic politicized mode of interaction we attempt to eliminate from threads, where members' interest in larger matters of importance are lost in favor of their attention on the political process. It's ironic that some of that discussion is about how the politicians are only focussed on the polls, when the posters' behavior isn't a lot different

If you'd like to continue discussion on the topic, please use the forum feedback thread.

Saar,
I think the root of the difference of the opinion is in different diagnosis' of the ailment. I mean diagnosis of what is wrong with economy?

There may be two views possible:
a) One is your view: Reading your post, one gets an impression that you are saying the ailments of economy(which is weakening the currency vis a vis dollar, which itself may not be inherently strong itself) is purely economic and those economic reasons need to be discussed and solved.

But, who is going to solve it? Obviously, it will have to be the political leadership of the country. So, when you say,"economic discussion is preferable to political/historical/social discussion...", what you are essentially saying is that economics is not impacted by politics or history or social factors. And that stand is absurd.

b) All the posters who discuss politics feel that the economic solution starts from political leadership(the buck stops there)/ Essentially, they feel that the present regime has failed in handling the economy(infact, some may even feel that the present regime is actively destroying the economy by its inefficient and dangerous policies along with its massive scams).

So, there are two diagnosis' of the problem:
a) it is purely economics.
b) economics is a symptom, but the problem is politics.

You seem to fall in group A. So, you think discussion of politics is irrelevant. Those who fall in group B think that the discussion on politics at this point of time may be of more importance than discussing economic theories because ultimately it is the politics thats going to decide the economy.

Here is a simple question: Do you think the present regime is responsible for the economic mess or not? I mean, say someone else was leading the nation, do you think desh would still be in this kind of mess? Say, NDA was ruling the Desh, do you think currency would still be falling as it is doing?

Many posters(and people in desh, going by the surveys) seem to feel that the present mess that the desh is in, is due to the regime.

Remember, economics is not the only mess. Security situation is also a mess. Paki and chini border are hot, yet the regime wants to do pappi jhappi with both. Internal security is no better. Number of deaths due to terror activity in past 10 years would be mindblowing stat. Yet, the regime is hesitant to carry out the orders of court. kongi politrickians float theories of 26/11 being a saffron terror. You connect the dots and see that there is mess on all sides.

Any and every sarkari scheme is filled with massive scams. Obviously, this will drain the economy and there is no infrastructure buildup. During NDA period, there was road building. All this is politics. So, when everything starts and ends with politics, than how can discussing politics be avoided?

It is the big elephant in the room. One can ignore it and try to discuss the other subjects. But such discussions are merely intellectual activities, because nothing will come out of it. Most people realize this, so they discuss how to change the state of affairs. That change starts from politics because the mess began with politics.

What is the use of discussing pakis, when deshi regime wants to do pappi jhappi with them? What is the use of discussing economics, when deshi regime is busy looting the public treasury without any care for the economy?

When there is no bhaans, there will be no bhansuri. One can talk of bhansuri, after one has secured the bhaans. Talking of bhansuri, when one does not even have a bhaans is futile and even a distraction.

This is similar to discussing deep philosophical questions when the enemy is at the gates. Whats the point of sitting and splitting the hair about some obscure theological point? The duty is to fight the enemy first. The same concept applies to this situation, IMHO.

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 28 Aug 2013 11:08

johneeG: you're not the first person to belabor the point of political economy vs economy. That's all true, and yet the forums rules are what they are. You don't like it ? There are options beside BRF where you can post about the political aspect of economy, as well as other threads. There exist particular threads within this forum where one can post about religion and politics, as a concession, but we don't grant posters the same leeway to derail every single thread with the same cut/pasted political diatribes.

johneeG · Post by **johneeG** » 28 Aug 2013 12:15

Suraj wrote:johneeG: you're not the first person to belabor the point of political economy vs economy.

Sure.

Suraj wrote: That's all true, and yet the forums rules are what they are. You don't like it ? There are options beside BRF where you can post about the political aspect of economy, as well as other threads.

True.

Suraj wrote: There exist particular threads within this forum where one can post about religion and politics, as a concession, but we don't grant posters the same leeway to derail every single thread with the same cut/pasted political diatribes.

Oh, when you said you were unhappy with the direction of the forum, I thought you were referring to the entire BR. Didn't realize you were talking of Tech & Economy forum only. Sorry.

Actually, I had the following post at the back of my mind and my response was mostly to that.

Suraj wrote:
Attention is a zero-sum game, so the more prominence you give to curbing such "splurging", the less attention there is on all the other things that need fixing. You can see how little government talk there is in response to the crisis about making it easier do business, building infrastructure, and so on. Instead the talk is all about reducing gold imports and making things more expensive. The public discourse is filled with this garbage, leaving no space for discussion of the fundamental changes needed.
Of course. It's not very different here on BRF either. In an ideal world threads like the economy, public policy, health, education, sanitation and similar threads would be the stars of the forum. But no, the out-of-India theory, Mughal rule etc gain much more attention. Why blame the public ?

You say, "why blame the public?" I don't understand. I thought that he was blaming the Government, not public. When he says 'public discourse', I think he means discourse through media and Govt unleashed into the general public. Anyway, how can anyone blame the general public for current economic crisis?

Also, when you say education, does it not involve history? Most of the history or for that matter even so-called scientific theories on genes or linguistics start with the assumption of AIT.

AIT itself is being used as the basis of secession in Sri Lanka. Till a few decades back, there was a demand for separate state based on AIT in India itself in TN. There are reports indicating that during Emergency, some DMK politicians were in contact with US to know whether any move to secede was going to be supported.

Naxalism is based on Leftist ideology. Pakistan was formed based on two-state theory. India faces terrorist threat from jihadis. There is Khalistan embers.

All of these are based on history and ideology. These things have direct impact on the integrity and security of the country. So, obviously they will become the 'star threads'. Even if such threads were not there, these topics will be covered in some other threads. By having a single thread, all the discussion would be at one place(this is what I like about BRF, a special thread for each topic instead of a subject being scattered in multiple threads).

BTW, what do you mean by 'Public policy'? Whose public policy towards whom?
Policy of the public towards x,y,z?
or
Policy of Govt. towards public?
or
something else?

Didn't understand that part.

I don't mean to question your authority.

One problem is that when one replies to the mods/admins, it is difficult to say whether they should be seen as fellow posters participating in the thread or they should be seen as mods/admins. So, it becomes tricky to reply to them. For example, the above opinions given by you, have nothing to do with the thread(indian economy) and are potentially derailing. I thought your other post was continuation of this part. So, I thought you were talking of the entire BR and not just economy thread.

Also when a mod says that some of the threads are unimportant and some other threads are important, how is one supposed to read it: as a personal opinion of the mod or as the opinion of BR mod/admin team? Because I thought OIT was an important thread. Infact, I thought OIT was the star thread of BR. So, that kind of foxed me. And Mughal Era thread is just a few pages compared to Indian economy thread.

I had no intention of bringing politics into economy thread. I was only replying to observations that I thought were being made about entire BR. Didn't realize they were only about that particular thread. Of course, I don't understand how economy, at this point of time(or for that matter any point of time), can be discussed without talking of politics. As RamaY ji has pointed out, the markets seem to be reacting to the regime. For example, if the finance minister were to resign, what will be the impact on the markets? Or lets say the PM resigns, what will happen? What will happen if the elections are announced?

So, when the markets are reacting to the political situation, I don't understand how can the situation be discussed without talking about politics? But, anyway, its upto the mods/admins to structure the discourse as they see fit.

My point was that public discusses politics instead of economy because it sees the Government as the root of the problem or root of the solution. Your post that I had quoted in my earlier post was talking about how the attention of people was more towards politics than other important issues. You were saying that larger important issues were not being discussed and instead people were into political processes. I was replying to it by saying that perhaps people(both on the BR and outside BR) may be focused on politics because people may see politics as the route through which all other issues are to be handled. Its the most logical thing to do, as far as I can see. Of course, BR may not be comfortable with discussing politics or ideologies. Then, people prefer to discuss other subjects(like history maybe) instead of discussing issues without going to the core.

On one hand, you are saying that you are unhappy that threads on other subjects(like history) are taking too much attention space of posters instead of 'important' threads like say economy. On the other hand, BR rules prohibit any discussion on politics or religion which constraints the discussions on many issues. Right now, economy thread is the case in point. Posters may feel there is no point in talking economy without addressing the core issue: politics. So, it is natural that the participation on such threads reduces(because the discussion can become superficial without discussing the core aspects) and instead other threads gain attention. If those other threads also are constrained in similar manner, then eventually the participation in those thread may reduce.

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 28 Aug 2013 21:50

I think you're overanalyzing matters. Abhijeet bemoaned the banality of public discourse. I simply pointed out that there's no need to look down on the general public in that manner, and that there's enough banality in the discourse here as well, by quoting a couple of examples of popular fast-moving threads pertaining to distant history or theories of the past, as opposed to much slower threads on matters of present day civic and socio-economic consequence.

I'm not sure why everyone makes such a big deal about the restriction on discussion of politics and religion in this forum, as if it's an extraordinarily pertinent point. Sure, those matters may tangentially affect anything and everything. For example, they affect the prices of (using 'you' as a generic first person, not specifically you) your child's diapers. Do you insist, on the basis that the price of diapers is dependent on politics and the state of religious dynamics at least remotely, on debating these matters in minute detail with your wife on a daily basis ? If you're chronically late for work due to traffic, do you insist on criticizing the local or national political dispensation and/or the influence of foreign religions at length in your explanation for your tardiness ?

You responded to my response to Kakkaji. I pointed out there that a substantial amount of members' energy is directed at the political process as opposed to discussion of matters of real world socio-economic importance, even though, ironically, much of that discussion blames the politicos for wasting their energy on poll matters rather than what matters to citizenry. Apparently that irony isn't apparent. Is this forum really about to be worthwhile only for 3 out of every 5 years before descending into poltiical analysis paralysis along with the politicians themselves, as poll fever mounts ?

More than reasonable latitude is already provided to posters to discuss these topics contrary to the general forum guidelines. If we were to follow them to the letter, the AIT, NaMo or other threads would not exist. The ability to discuss these matters here today amounts to latitude beyond the letter of the forum guidelines, as a spirit of tolerance towards some discussion of these extraneous matters. The more people misuse such freedom, the greater the chances that it will be substantially restricted and instead the letter of the guidelines will be followed more literally.

member_27444 · Post by **member_27444** » 03 Sep 2013 09:02

Time to ban the ban
At first
Time out is given
If they defy
Make them bradmin
To know the burden

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 11 Sep 2013 04:08

What is the objective of ECONOMY thread?

Is it collecting links from today's news paper and write supporting/sympathizing posts for the current (Whoever is in power on a given day) political dispensation ONLY?

Why criticism of current GoI's policy is pushed away in the name of "discussing politics"? Is FSB or NREGA, which costs more than 20% planned budget and positively/negatively impact 500+ million people, an economic discussion or political discussion?

Why discussions alternative visions for economic policy are not allowed or curtailed in that thread?

Lilo · Post by **Lilo** » 12 Sep 2013 12:15

X-posting all the relevant posts on this issue. Will edit out pinglish in time

rsangram wrote:
Lilo wrote:
Er...

Adeela Naureen ji,

What "our" republic ?
Or do you mean some hypothetical republic of Sickular South Asia - which includes Pakiland too ?
Admins, who is this LILO guy ? More importantly, WHAT is this LILO guy ? If he is the resident comedian, let me respond with a laugh.

I just think it is in very bad taste, that this guy indulges in cheap comedy, on a thread which discusses such serious issues. It is particularly in bad taste, when the issue is rape of Hindu women and murder of Hindus on a large scale in their own home area.

He seems to fancy himself as one of those cheesy sidekicks who talks like a two year old and does juvenile slapsticks in the 1970s Hindi movies. Someone(admins) need to shake him out of this persona.

Adeela Naureen motorham ji,

Plij to excuse my asking...
Why phor you chose to grace this phorum posing as an Indian and asking lot of questions about Narendar "Singh" Modi
When you could have had a grand welcome by assorted maulaners and mujahids of LMU only if you would have presented yourself in your original self as a Paki motorham researching Mushaffization & doing pisko analysis on unsuspecting peepal ...?

In fact I too would have welcomed joo aj was my broposal to brf when I first came across juor artecal dated ...28-August-2012

Lilo wrote:Quoting the farticle in full before its modified or takendown.
Indo-Pakistan cyber war: reality check
Adeela Naureen and Umar Waqar

As per techtarget.com “Cyber warfare is Internet-based conflict involving politically motivated attacks on information and information systems. Cyber warfare attacks can disable official websites and networks, disrupt or disable essential services, steal or alter classified data, and cripple financial systems, among many other possibilities.”
As per Alvin Toffler, “the media fire blips of unrelated information at us. Experts bury us under mountains of narrowly specialized monographs. Popular forecasters present lists of unrelated trends, without any model to show us their interconnections or the forces likely to reverse them. As a result, change itself comes to be seen as anarchic, even lunatic.”
And may we add that the power of social media which is unbridled and almost free (minus the one which is controlled by vested interests) that you can find what recently happened in India for instance, the exodus of Northeasterners from (mainly) Southern India. Today’s discussion is not about India’s fault lines and the simmering currents of revolt knocking at the doors of New Delhi, but a sinister blame campaign launched by, apparently, supporters of the leadership of India that Pakistani groups were involved in a campaign to divide India. Despite our limited access to what happens inside the ‘Shining India’, we would like to expose the contours of a persistent anti-Pakistan and anti-Islam cyber war that has been waged by Indian groups (government sponsored and private) to demonize and belittle Pakistan in every way possible.
While being fully cognizant of the fact that it is only the resilience of the people that has let Pakistan float through its socio-economic and security challenges during the last one decade, the country at present presents an ideal target for cyber warfare and information operations. With help from some Pakistani intellectuals in print and electronic media as well as a policy of appeasement adopted by successive Pakistani governments, the Indian cyber warfare apparatus has been allowed a free run to bludgeon Pakistan as well as Islam.
The paucity of space for discussion here restricts us from doing a post-mortem of the Indian cyber war against Pakistan. However, few glimpses of one forum, Bharat Rakshak.com (which in our opinion is the vanguard organization of Pakistan and Islam specific cyber war apparatus), could be an eye opener for many. Bharat Rakshak (BR) is a Pakistan-hate forum with viewership running into millions. We wish the Aman Ki Asha group to have an open discussion with this forum, which would make it realise that peripheral, social and media exchanges for peace do not stand any chance of mitigating the hate being created by this one forum only. So, they may be wasting a lot of time of a lot of people across the great divide.
Bharat Rakshak has a clearly articulated offensive and defensive strategy in place and an admirable ability to pick anything from Pakistani or international media to demonize Pakistan. An interesting thread currently run by BR is, “A mirror on Pakistan in their own words by Pakistanis”. A section of Pakistani newspapers, TV anchors and intellectuals, who adopt an unnecessarily harsh critical approach to practices associated with Islam, are the most sought out and quoted in this thread. Pakistan is satirically named as Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TIRP)
Demonizing Islam as well as the Indian Muslims: Hate material runs into millions of comments and views insulting our beloved Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) as well as Muslim akabireen and leadership. General themes include Islam bashing, Bangladeshi bashing, portraying Pakistanis as illiterate and ridiculing the sectarian divisions within Islam. An example of a disturbing way of expressing everything associated with Pakistan is that Pak-China friendship has been displayed by an insulting photograph, a monkey (Pakistan) riding a pig (China) {this refers to the well known pic circulating in Benis}. Pakistan’s ISI has a special forum for discussion and is one of the prime targets of the BR.
There is a confused and free for all strategists’ Strategic Forum on Subcontinent with self-created and imaginary threats discussed on a daily basis. It appears that the fear factor of being ruled by others has not left the Indian psyche even after getting independence. There are seemingly permanent imprints of that period, as confirmed by Bharat Verma’s latest book on India’s fault lines.
The Boomerang on India’s Face: What the cyber warriors of India forget is that you cannot insult a community which forms 20 percent of you demography, the Muslims of India. They do not realise that Pakistan bashing, Islam bashing and insulting our respected forefathers {The lampooning of their arap,turkic and other hijda "four fathers" got these porkis squirming like worms} would do them little good in the ultimate analysis; this practice would not be digested by any Muslim, Pakistani or Indian.
To highlight their anti-Pakistan and anti-Islam bias we will quote from Bharat Rakhshak discussion forum on how should the US fulfil the mean desires of India, “If the Americans think straight, and with a clear lens not dirtied with Gulf Arab oil and money, then they would not be confounded by Paki “treachery”. Paki behaviour will then be perfectly understandable and predictable, once they understand the true nature of the Sunnis. And then, never again will they make the mistake of going into Iraq of even Afghanistan to tackle radical Islam; instead they would squeeze the Pakis (the body of the snake) and the Saudis (the head of the snake).{This was extracted from here}
Those who negate the Two-Nation Theory within India or Pakistan must understand that, as in the past, it is being fortified by such virulent anti-Pakistan campaign.
Recently, Narendra Singh Modi accused the United Progressive Alliance (UPA) Government of disrespecting the Indian culture by allegedly promoting the slaughter of cows to increase the prospects of beef export. Well beef is a different issue, Mr Modi, especially when it comes to making good profit. Incidentally, India is forecast to become the world’s leading beef exporter in 2012, which makes it clear that there are no longer any holy cows. Only the Muslims in India will not be allowed to touch them!

The writers are freelance columnists based in Zimbabwe.Email: [email protected]

This news was published in print paper.
Methinks these two paki specimens from Zimbabwe should be welcomed into BRF.

http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 1#p1330641 28-August-2012

If joo wanted to know moar about narinder Singh modi ajj wajj jour poonch in juar first bost ... All the faculty of LMU would have arranged a collective jirga for joo... While awarding a PhD far your path breaking research into "musharaffization "...

rsangram wrote:Am new here. I just would like to know how Modi is thinking he can come to power in the current political setup. The Indian electorate is divided into groups. The way I understand it, (and I am inviting views from people much better informed than I am on Indian politics and Indian electorate) as things stand right now, the Tamils will never vote for him, the Telegus will never vote for him, the Malyalams will never vote for him, then moving on North, the Yadavs and other OBCs of UP and Bihar will never vote for him, the Muslims all over the country will never vote for him, the Dalits all over the country will never vote for him, the entire North East barring minor exceptions like Arunachal and parts of Manipur will never vote for him, the Marathas including Shiv Sena will not vote for him, so how does the math work ? Is Modi coming to power just a pipe dream of his and a wet dream of a few nationalists (of which I consider myself one) ?

http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 9#p1319569 - 4th august 2012

Since your farrst post was just on 4th august 2012 joo should have lurked moar and did Petter undercover jassusi far juar artecal ... Instead of penning it within 25 days .... See thats why joo failed when it came to correctly spell modi's name. Hiyar eye again inform joo that iph joo would hape availed the services of LMU maulaners to quickly seekh the espellings of kufr names like Modi...juar artecal would have been flawless.

Getting Modi's name spelled wrong in the brint edition of bakistan's foremost newsbaper Al-Nashun ijj blasphemy and I suggest 10 stribes far thijj inadvertent mishtake of joo...

BTW joo neednt not hape to resort to that old trashy journo trick of penning jour own words to get quotable quotes far juar artecal. We Maulaners , mujahids and even the rare raakit mard would hape queued up to pen quotable quotes far joo...and it would hape been on batter tobics laike joy of petting goats (kushpoos) etc...

rsangram wrote:..... that it is the Sunnis who think nothing of slitting people throats in a "halal" manner (slowly) and it is part of the Deobandis and the Salafis who are the most intolerant and it is their hidden agenda to convert the whole world and go back to the caves. If the Americans think straight, and with a clear lense not dirtied with Gulf Arab oil and money, then they would not be confounded by Paki "treachery". Paki behaviour will then be perfectly understandable and predictable, once they understand the true nature of the Sunnis. And then, never again will they make the mistake of going into Iraq of even Afghanistan to tackle radical Islam, instead they would squeeze the Pakis(the body of the snake) and the Saudis(the head of the snake)........

http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 0#p1320050 5th August 2012

^^^
Frankly creating a peearef account - then penning apove ujelass tripe on day 2 to chapao it in artecal to be published within 25 days .. Al the while neglecting the tender resham and naram poetry recitals habbening in LMU dhagha ijj the piggest plasbhemy one can commit.
Far thijj I suggest 20 stribes far joo ajj a bunishment.

Also joo wrote in juar artecal that joo pheel takleef that Pakistan ijj being labeled "Terrorist State of Pakistan"...
Ijj it why joo subconsciously insert pelow type kamments in jour posts hiyar ? Thank Allah that mod did not consider your suggestion to rename TSP thread

rsangram wrote:....... Lots of people will protest here that, that is not so, that everyone understands that and I am insulting people here by saying that it is not fully understood. But if it were fully understood, we would not have had a thread called the Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan. We would have had, instead a thread called "Subcultured and the psychopathic State of Global Islam", of which Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan is only one of the more lethal front brigade, a forward base for Islamizing the entire world...........
Why is it important to change this thread from TSP to The Subcultured and Psychopathic State of Global Islam ? Because then we will clearly be identifying who the enemy is. We will broaden our vision. Our enemy is not merely one brigade or one outpost of Global Islam, as lethal as it might be, but the entire body of the snake, including the poisonous head, which is somewhere in the area where Asia meets Africa. Some of us tend to underestimate Paki, because, we dont understand its true strategic depth, ...

http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 6#p1332736

Then again hiyar

.....Instead of bashing Pakistan as TSP, we should at least in this forum, term this system of governance in India - this government as the HEGI (Hindu Enslavement Government of India). So, we went from the Delhi Sultanate to the Moguls to the Colonial British Government to now - the Hindu Enslavement Government of India and two homelands for Islamists, namely Pakistan and Bangladesh. At least there is no ambiguity that Pakistan is for Muslims, and Bangladesh is for Muslims. As per this HEGI, India is not for Hindus, it is also for Muslims....

http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 4#p1495734

rsangram wrote:^^^^^^^^^^

All those posts that this guy LILO attributes to me are mine. I have no idea what the other article is. Those words are mine alone and if there is any lifting, it is done by others. The admins should talk to me on my email. I will be happy to identify myself.

And then, this clown LILO should be made to eat his words.

Adeela Naureen motorham ji,

Iph joo are not satisphied ...
LMU will gladly gipe another reading to juar esteemed artecal.

Lilo wrote:Quoting the farticle in full before its modified or takendown.
Indo-Pakistan cyber war: reality check
Adeela Naureen and Umar Waqar

.......

And may we add that the power of social media which is unbridled and almost free (minus the one which is controlled by vested interests) that you can find what recently happened in India for instance, the exodus of Northeasterners from (mainly) Southern India. Today’s discussion is not about India’s fault lines and the simmering currents of revolt knocking at the doors of New Delhi, but a sinister blame campaign launched by, apparently, supporters of the leadership of India that Pakistani groups were involved in a campaign to divide India. Despite our limited access to what happens inside the ‘Shining India’, we would like to expose the contours of a persistent anti-Pakistan and anti-Islam cyber war that has been waged by Indian groups (government sponsored and private) to demonize and belittle Pakistan in every way possible.
......
The paucity of space for discussion here restricts us from doing a post-mortem of the Indian cyber war against Pakistan. However, few glimpses of one forum, Bharat Rakshak.com (which in our opinion is the vanguard organization of Pakistan and Islam specific cyber war apparatus), could be an eye opener for many. Bharat Rakshak (BR) is a Pakistan-hate forum with viewership running into millions. We wish the Aman Ki Asha group to have an open discussion with this forum, which would make it realise that peripheral, social and media exchanges for peace do not stand any chance of mitigating the hate being created by this one forum only. So, they may be wasting a lot of time of a lot of people across the great divide.
Bharat Rakshak has a clearly articulated offensive and defensive strategy in place and an admirable ability to pick anything from Pakistani or international media to demonize Pakistan. An interesting thread currently run by BR is, “A mirror on Pakistan in their own words by Pakistanis”. A section of Pakistani newspapers, TV anchors and intellectuals, who adopt an unnecessarily harsh critical approach to practices associated with Islam, are the most sought out and quoted in this thread. Pakistan is satirically named as Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TIRP)
Demonizing Islam as well as the Indian Muslims: Hate material runs into millions of comments and views insulting our beloved Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) as well as Muslim akabireen and leadership. General themes include Islam bashing, Bangladeshi bashing, portraying Pakistanis as illiterate and ridiculing the sectarian divisions within Islam. An example of a disturbing way of expressing everything associated with Pakistan is that Pak-China friendship has been displayed by an insulting photograph, a monkey (Pakistan) riding a pig (China) {this refers to the well known pic circulating in Benis}. Pakistan’s ISI has a special forum for discussion and is one of the prime targets of the BR.
There is a confused and free for all strategists’ Strategic Forum on Subcontinent with self-created and imaginary threats discussed on a daily basis. It appears that the fear factor of being ruled by others has not left the Indian psyche even after getting independence. There are seemingly permanent imprints of that period, as confirmed by Bharat Verma’s latest book on India’s fault lines.
The Boomerang on India’s Face: What the cyber warriors of India forget is that you cannot insult a community which forms 20 percent of you demography, the Muslims of India. They do not realise that Pakistan bashing, Islam bashing and insulting our respected forefathers {The lampooning of their arap,turkic and other hijda "four fathers" got these porkis squirming like worms} would do them little good in the ultimate analysis; this practice would not be digested by any Muslim, Pakistani or Indian.
To highlight their anti-Pakistan and anti-Islam bias we will quote from Bharat Rakhshak discussion forum on how should the US fulfil the mean desires of India, “If the Americans think straight, and with a clear lens not dirtied with Gulf Arab oil and money, then they would not be confounded by Paki “treachery”. Paki behaviour will then be perfectly understandable and predictable, once they understand the true nature of the Sunnis. And then, never again will they make the mistake of going into Iraq of even Afghanistan to tackle radical Islam; instead they would squeeze the Pakis (the body of the snake) and the Saudis (the head of the snake).{This was extracted from here}
Those who negate the Two-Nation Theory within India or Pakistan must understand that, as in the past, it is being fortified by such virulent anti-Pakistan campaign.
.......

The writers are freelance columnists based in Zimbabwe.Email: [email protected]

This news was published in print paper.
Methinks these two paki specimens from Zimbabwe should be welcomed into BRF.

Pesh-e-kidmat , LMU s callective proposal far the title of juar next artecal...

”Glorious Saga oph a tactically prilliant Baki's attemp at Ungli prayog into Yindia's Fault lines"

Part 1- Dalit "Faultlinej"

rsangram wrote:^^^^^ agreed, it is a parliamentary system. But can you please elaborate to educate me.

1. Please explain the math which will allow Modi himself to win 175 seats for the BJP and

2. Please explain in detail why I am wrong about the Dalits, the Yadavs and OBCs and Marathas including Shiv Sena not voting for Modi .

Please understand, I do this in the spirit of learning, not in the spirit of being argumentative. I lurked for a few weeks before I joined and I know that people on the forum, sometimes justifiably so, are overly sensitive {motorham ji joo are mishtaken hiyar in LMU we ijj rather overly senjitive to Kushpoos (goats) and nanha mujahids - pretty much all Hoors like joo are ignored so fret naat) to to even perceived slights which are not intended.

Thanks.

http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 3#p1319583

rsangram wrote: .... In fact, it is a miracle and amazing good luck that the Hindus have not totally perished via conversion yet, considering our extraordinary internal fissures, fractures and conflicts. What is happening today in India internally among the Hindus, leave aside others, is nothing short of a brutal and "cold" civil war of attrition for resources - a highly unfair war with no rules other than brute force - dalits attacking the "forwards", obcs vs dalits, obc's vs "forwards", creamy layer dalits vs non-creamy layer, myriads of caste interests. I am sure you are aware of how political parties distribute tickets ? Purely on highly granular caste and regional considerations.

Besides, I have heard a lot of things said by outsiders about India and the Hindu society, some good, mostly bad. But not once have I heard anyone call it "united and more harmonious". India is almost universally perceived as chaotic, fractious, full of fissures, disorderly and deeply divided in itself - the opposite of "united and more harmonious". And we are also not a 100% Hindu society for a long time now, which further forecloses on any liberties we may be allowed in terms of infighting.

Why the above is relevant to this thread is that a highly fractious situation internally, when mixed with an inherent tolerance for the "outsiders" (called secularism for lack of a better term) is a potent recipe for self destruction. But these are the exact elements that characterize the Hindu society today. In other words, the so called "secularism" that exists in India today, in addition to being destructive and unfair in its own right, takes on an additional diabolical dimension, when combined with the deep internal fissures within Hindus today.

Fissures - Faultlinez -divides-civil wartz- Dalits vs hinjews ... Theej are all old outdated geological estrategies to go JEEHARD on dutty Hinjews. The latest and pestest wayj to go JEEHARD are berpetually peing strategised in LMU while esmoking herpes. Pleaj .. We will be honored iph joo join us with juar Musharrafization pack ground.

rsangram wrote: Dont let TonySoprano go. Let him air out his views. We can counter them with facts and a dispassionate discussion. As long as he does not become totally emotional and devoid of logic, let him argue his case. But before we do that, TonySoprano, please change your name to something that is closer to your identity, so people feel that they can know you and take you seriously {pleaj motorham ... I can't pear thijj funny jokes of juars any more }

One thing that has been missing on this forum, is voices of Dalits of today. What they think ? In my experience, the Dalits of today are living in a parallel universe from the rest of us. They nurse very serious grievances towards the rest of us, much more serious than we can imagine, unless we acquire their confidence and reach the real them. A lot of these grievances in my mind at least are not justified and not rooted in history or reality, a lot of them are. But unless we start an honest dialogue we will not be able to change that mindset. We Hindus all need to come together, particularly the Dalits, if we are to survive in this vicious world, and we cannot even begin to do that, without a constructive dialogue. Right now, the only people that listen to the Dalits or pretend to, are the castiest political parties, which means all of them, but these parties simply appease them. There is no alternative dialogue or vision, offered to the Dalits from the rest of us Hindus, even if it is a little tougher vision on them in the short term. Unless, we can open up a dialogue and offer an alternative vision, our vision to the Dalits and have them buy into it, we will stay dangerously divided.

I emphasize again, WE and the DALITS today, LIVE IN PARALLEL UNIVERSES. HOW WE SEE THINGS ARE VERY DIFFERENT and we HAVE to find a way to reconcile these diametrically opposed visions. Otherwise we are doomed. This vacuum in alternate dialogues amongst ourselves, provides the crucial and key space and opportunity to political parties, christian, Islamic and other missionaries to exploit the Dalits for their own ends, and to the great detriment of everybody, including particularly the Dalits.....

http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 0#p1493650

rsangram wrote: You may be right in that I might have framed the sentence incorrectly. When I said "we" I meant most members of the BRF, who I presumed, and I am open to be corrected, are not Dalit. In fact this forum is overwhelmingly non-Dalit. But if I am wrong, I am, like I said, open to be corrected. So, by we, I did not mean anything other than the members of this forum. I was merely reflecting the reality of the composition of this forum, not creating a distinction between "we" and Dalits in the sense of being Brahmins and Dalits or in any other larger sense.

However, having said that, I differ with you when you imply that Dalits dont feel alienated from the rest of the Hindus. This is not saying that they are not Hindus or even staunch Hindus. But I am saying that they feel alienated and have grievances against the rest of the Hindus. I did not create those grievances, I dont even agree with some of them, but I have interacted with them closely and I am just a messenger. Look at this article in today's Hindustan Times, which I did not report and it talks about a situation, which I did not create and see what you think of this. This is TODAY. Again, I am not taking sides on this issue, it is quite possible this article is rather one sided, rather biased, as this sort of story creates sensationlism and sells newspapers, but can we honestly say that the Dalits do not feel aggrieved, rightly or wrongly ?

Even in flood relief camps, caste divide prevalent in Bihar
Ruchir Kumar, Hindustan Times Patna, August 10, 2013
First Published: 16:10 IST(10/8/2013) | Last Updated: 16:44 IST(10/8/2013)

http://www.hindustantimes.com/India-new ... px?hts0021
AND YOU CANNOT WISH AWAY THESE GRIEVENCES AND THIS ALIENATION BY RESORTING TO ISOLATED EXAMPLES FROM INDIAN MYTHOLOGY AND EVEN BLAMING ISLAMIC INVASIONS FOR IT. Islamic invasions were evil and wicked in their own right, but let us not pin the Dalit/non-Dalit divide on it. That is all our own(by our own I mean, Dalits and non Dalits alike) doing and yes, it would have taken us( Dalit and non Dalit) a superhuman effort, but we could have corrected this on our own, Islam or no Islam, but we did not. We still can, but we will not. Because instead to interacting with the Dalits and getting a realistic pictures of where the relations are on the ground, we wish to bury our head in the sand and just keep repeating to ourselves(our non Dalit selves) in our own(non Dalit) minds that "we are all the same" and anyone who is merely reporting(not even necessarily agreeing with), the Dalit sense of alienation and grievances is creating this mythical "DIVIDE", which of course DID NOT EXIST before the author of the post made this post. Why dont you ask the Dalits, if they feel, "WE ARE ALL THE SAME" and that there is no problem. Even if their sentiments are not justified, you cannot deny that these sentiments of alienation exist and exist very strongly, enough that they are causing major disruptions and disturbances in our society. This is not just true for Dalits, but also of the OBCs and a myriad of other castes. In fact, in India today, it has become a free for all, a state of civil war where all the castes have polarized, and are collectively fighting to get their piece of the pie, and fairness and merit be damned. Might is right and whoever can turn out more numbers on the street and in elections wins.

As a matter of fact, this poster further reports {motorham ji lat me congraticulate joo- joo are the pestest reporter LMU can ever hape....}, that in his interaction with the Dalits, and he freely grants that this is anecdotal and may or may not be representative of all Dalits, that he has found some very disturbing and destructive impulses and thought processes among those Dalits that he interacted with, which if not corrected via a variety of means, chief among them - an honest dialogue, will lead to further choas, divisions and yes, further Islamic invasions.

http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 7#p1494347

Rahul M wrote:this is a very serious accusation. but nothing presented so far convinces me that rsangram is a pakistani masquerading as an Indian.

disagreement on opinions does not automatically make someone a paki. in any case we have nothing against pakis participating here provided they follow the board rules. let's not act like the deff and dumb fora guys.

to sum up, unjustified accusations about a member is taken very seriously by the mods.
consequently, I would expect the past few posts to disappear as quickly as possible, by the posters themselves. otherwise very stern action would follow when the 24 hr window closes.
- Rahul.

p.s. there shall be no more posts on this topic.

^^^
RahulM ji,
Such things can't be proved 100% .. This is an online forum after all..
But user post history is there to see always ... And connect the dots about the posters attributes and intents...

I know Paki's can be members here just as anyone else...
So why can't rsangram stop masquerading as an Indian and come out and post happily as a Pakistani in the open ?
I remember other Paki's like Lestat who opened a thread itself to give paki perspective http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 06#p972306

In comparision look at this Rsangram person... She wades into a Sikh Wisconsin shooting thread and makes it an Hindu victimization issue. If this is not the clearest case of pakiness I don't know what is.

Part 2- Hinjew - Sikh "Faultlinej"

rsangram wrote: So why blame these Indian Sikhs. At least they are not protesting establishment of an auto plant in Haryana. They are merely exercising their "democratic rights" burning American flags and perhaps an Indian or two, { Motorham ji, please dont put yer pehind on fire... Let me inform you that if at all indians come to the point of burning their own flags ... Sikhs will be one of the last people to do it } while they are at it. These Indian Sikhs should have a ready answer for their American counterparts who say that "while the whole country (America) is backing us up on this, it would give a very poor impression of Sikhs to Americans, if they protest the actions of a small number of lunatics". Indian Sikhs should respond by saying, "you American Sikhs didnt preach that to us, vis-a-vis India". Of course Indian Sikhs forget, India is fair game for protests, while Massa.........well, it is a different story.{ well what different story ... Don't drag every one to the level of your paki berthen}

And clearly, who can blame the American Sikhs from taking this opportunity to blame the Indian government for not dispensing justice to the Sikhs and defending the "Great" American Government, the kindly Uncle, that has "stood by" the Sikhs in their hour of trouble. And can the American Sikhs really be blamed if in the midst of this massive tragedy that they have suffered, they proclaim that "protest against India and you are a hero", "protest against Massa and you are a goon". After all these American Sikhs have suffered so much since 9/11.

And after reading the above article in Times of India, if any blasphemous thoughts start creeping into the minds of any Indian here at BRF or otherwise, that protests are all inversely proportional to the "fear of the danda" or the gun, as the case may be, then start reciting, "Ram Ram" and banish those unclean throughts out of your minds..............

http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 7#p1322877

rsangram wrote:I will accept that some thoughts expressed on this thread have been less than sensitive. I will also accept that some thoughts expressed in India during 1984 and in the peak of the Khalistan movement in India have been less than sensitive. Let me take this opportunity to unequivocally and unconditionally apologise on behalf of all Indians (Hindu, Buddhists, Jains, Animists, Athiests, Agnostics, Christians and yes, even the other Sikhs) to all Sikhs who have been undeservedly hurt by such utterances.

Having said that, Sir, you are putting words in the mouths of people on this forum and this thread. No one ever said that Sikhs are all about "kill, kill and kill" and no one ever said that Sikhs have "no right to a peaceful life". All that was implied I think was that Sikhs deserve a peaceful life while still maintaining and without abandoing their essential character and ethos, rather than having to buy this peaceful life by shedding their very essence.

You know, and I address this to everyone on this forum, all posters and administrators. Everyone, in my view, is reasonable, even Jaspreet (despite his outbursts), and everyone is well meaning and no one is malicious. I respect the moderators desire to keep this forum and thread as conflict free, respectful and sensitive as possible. But let me point out something. I have apologised for any insensitivity in this very post.{ this paki apologizes pretty fast ofcourse this is logical considering her only aim in the discussion is to seed hatred} I have seen over the decades, politician after politician, community leader after community leader, religious leader after religious leader, intellectuals after intellectuals, writers after writers and ordinary people after ordinary people, go out of their way and apologise to, commiserate with, and comfort the Sikhs in all possible manner. I dont say there is anything wrong with that. Even in this tragedy, other than this thread, in general all Hindu organizations I know everywhere have come out with expressions of support. Even the Prime Minister of India formally and very publicly apologised to the Sikhs.

Yet....Yet, I have never seen any apologies from anyone to the Hindus. It is as if, Hindus have historically been the biggest oppressors in the world and of all times. I have seen no apologies for any kind for years of armed invasions, atrocities and forced conversions by the Islamic hordes over the centuries. Instead, the muslims of all hue consistently claim grievences against the Hindus. I have seen no apologies from the British, French or the Dutch for any of their acts in this subcontinent. Instead, I see India continued to be treated as a second class nation and people by these ex-colonialists and thwarted in all kinds of ways through all kinds of treachery of policy by the West. When Indians try to even put up a token resistence, they are maligned by the Western media like there is no tomorrow. They lecture India as if it is their brithright. And, I have seen no apologies or regrets ever expressed by the Sikhs for all the bloodshed, for senseless killing of the innocent Sikhs and Hindus, for collaborating with the Pakis, for even the moderate Sikhs getting caught up in the "romance of Khalistan", and most of all for fracturing the very concept of India and putting deep fissures in our society, for putting brother against brother. It is always Hindus who have to apologise. The Sikhs are the prefered people of God. Even their murderous acts are beyond reproach. {Got to give it to you Paki's..... you amble into Sikh shooting thread in a Hindu garb .... Then put forth demands that Sikhs should "apologize" to Hindus. This is the tendency of this Individual. Next she will demand that rest of the Hindus in UP apologize to Jats for riots... Then we will have yadav vs jat , yadav vs chamar jat vs thakur fault lines being propped up as strawmen to intentionally seed animosity}

Why is it that no one ever apologises to the Hindus ? I would be happy with mere acknowledgement of something wrong being done to the Hindus without the apologies. Why does even an acknowledgement doesnt happen. And when some insenstive tweet does come out of some Hindu with no tact (such as BobbyP), out comes all the indignation, the outrage, the threats of bans, outbursts of the kind that Jaspreet put out and all kinds of recriminations and retaliations. Perhaps, we Hindus are "like that, only". We are lesser humans. We are like cattle. Does anyone apologise to cattle for slaughtering them and eating them ? Anthropologists and other scientists should do a study on Hindus and conclude that we are do not quite reach the human definition..

So, let us all prepare ourselves, to perpetually be in apology mode, like I did in this post and so many others have done in the past. As Jaspreet says, let Manmohan Singhs of this world continue to promise Siachen to be a mountain of peace and let us applaud them for it, but not a peep out of Manmohan Singh about making Kashmir the valley of peace or Punjab the plain of brotherhood. Not one.

I think we Hindus really need to introspect why we are perpetually the victims and continuously subjected to "blame the victim" tirades. There is certainly something missing in us, something we carry written across our breasts, which says, "come kick me, I am a Hindu".

http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 3#p1323233

For now I'll keep my posts - after all it is me who raised this issue and is putting together facts to show that rsangram is indeed a paki
____________________________

RahulM wrote: Lilo ji, unfortunately that is not enough to pass judgement regarding nationality. in any case, pakiness is a state of the mind and there are unfortunately, enough Indians who display it. it is also immaterial, display of pakiness should anyway get people banned.

lastly, this thread is NOT meant for discussing a members posting habit. such posts should go in the forum feedback thread. I would once again request you and the other members to delete their OT posts.
Rahul.

Lilo · Post by **Lilo** » 12 Sep 2013 14:06

In effect even a cursory glance at this Rsangram 's post history shows that

http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/search ... 2&sr=posts

She is like an amplifier box with built in Paki noise doping..
She invariably plays to the gallery by echoing the themes employed by reputed posters in brf and egging those
who engage her to express more and more extreme opinions especially on groups which she perceives to be as straddling a major or minor faultline in India's fabric.

Other major fetish is Hindu enslavement.Labels corruption to be an especially Hindu trait (actually I am quite surprised that she was not pulled up here for such blatant and malicious generalisations). Main aim seems to be spreading a sense of fatalism , general hopelessness especially targeting Indian lurkers.

Maybe knowing themselves to be a GUBO slaves of Saudi, Massa and Cheen mastels ... These Paki's have no other way to swallow this fact but to bring Indians (especially Hindus) to the same level of equal equal.