Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

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Kersi D
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by Kersi D »

srai wrote:
Sagar G wrote:Summer will come next year only hence the trials will start then.
It would seem that from user-trials to induction takes at least 3 years, and this is primarily due to user acceptance testing needed to be conducted in the extremities of summer and winter conditions. The cycle seems to be something like this:

User Trials (post R&D)
  1. Year 1 - IA tests the missiles/vehicles both in peak winter and summer
  2. Year 2 - DRDO fixes the glitches found during user trials and tests both in peak summer and winter before second round of user trials; this step may take more years depending on the complexity of the fixes required
  3. Year 3 - IA re-tests in both peak summer and winter before approving for induction
So
Year 1 - IA tests the missiles/vehicles both in peak winter and summer
Year 2 - DRDO fixes the glitches found during user trials and tests both in peak summer and winter before second round of user trials; this step may take more years depending on the complexity of the fixes required
Year 3 - IA re-tests in both peak summer and winter before approving for induction[/list]

Year 4. IA "suggests" some changes

But..................


Year 1 1/2 IA sees REAL threat from PA tanks. Pppaaaannniiiicccc
Immediate order ATM from Rodina / Israel / France / US
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by nits »

ravi_g wrote:
Singha wrote:its a long way to beijing from the middle of IOR. around 5000km for sure.

5000 km should be enough if you are willing to fire at bejing from any point in the Bay of Bengal. From somewhere off the coast of Orrisa to shanghai will also work out to around 3500 km.

Diego Garcia works to around 7400 km.

Lesser ranges will force IN to deploy in the Pacific.
Rest all is fine but why Diego Garcia ?? :eek:
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by abhik »

Some thing doesn't add up on the claimed K4 specs. Compared to the Agni3 it weighs 1/3rd, has around the same range and yet has a greater payload (1.5 vs 2t). How come?
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by rohitvats »

ramana wrote:<SNIP>
OT:

You've mail on an unrelated topic.

Regards,
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by soumik »

abhik wrote:Some thing doesn't add up on the claimed K4 specs. Compared to the Agni3 it weighs 1/3rd, has around the same range and yet has a greater payload (1.5 vs 2t). How come?

Because the range of the A3 is grossly understated, I had written an article on this in defenceforumindia earlier

http://missilethreat.com/agni-missiles- ... s-the-eye/
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by sum »

^^ Wonder what was really test-fired here!!
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by Manish_Sharma »

Septimus P. wrote:If info in article is accurate, K4 should have a range longer than 3000-3500 km with a light warhead. The 2 ton warhead capability is quite unique as well since I don't think any other missiles in our inventory can carry such a hefty payload. Range of the K4 should be therefore be well over 5000km with a light payload 250-500kg.
Agni III can carry 2.5 tons 8)
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by Suraj »

Singha wrote:its a long way to beijing from the middle of IOR. around 5000km for sure.
Yes, a 5000km radius from Port Blair as a near equivalent shows coverage:
great circle mapper
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by Kersi D »

sum wrote:
^^ Wonder what was really test-fired here!!
:D :D :D :D
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by nits »

K-4 SLBM will be Game Changer for India in Asia
According to media reports India is all set to officially test fire not so secretive K-4 submarine-launched ballistic missile (SLBM) with a range of 3,500 km from a submerged pontoon off the Visakhapatnam coast next month.

Like K-15 missile which was tested recently but actually was twelfth and final development trial of the missiles before the program was officially made public .next month’s test of K-4 most likely will be final development trial or one of many developmental trials of the missile, since it has been long rumoured that first test firing of K-4 might have taken place way back in 2010 itself.

Faster turnaround on development cycle of K-4 missile was mainly due to many systems which were already perfected while developing the shorter range K-15 SLBM. K-4 will enable an Indian nuclear submarine lurking in the Bay of Bengal to target China and Pakistan simultaneously while staying off Indian coastal waters.

K-4 will be game changer for India in many ways, not only it will complete India’s third leg of the nuclear deterrent (air and ground-launched weapons being the other two) and will also be ideal invulnerable second strike weapon stated in the nuclear doctrine. K-4 even with reduced payload will be able to hit from Bay of Bengal into deeper Chinese cities while staying far away from coast waters of china.

K-15 SLBM which was dubbed Pakistan specific due to its limited range of 750 km mostly could have been used to take out coastal targets rather than deeper targets in main cities. So testing of K-4 SLBM has much more significance to Indian planners since it will be able to hit deeper targets due to better range and in true sense completing India’s nuclear triad.

K-5 which will be next SLBM, which DRDO is working on will have official range of 5000 km and is rumoured to be longer-legged variant of the K-4 incorporating many of the systems and guidance packages of K-4 itself. All the K-series missiles are faster, lighter and stealthier and are named after India’s missile man, former President APJ Abdul Kalam (K stands for Kalam ) , all K series of missiles are designed to defeat even best missile defence systems currently deployed in the world .

INS Arihant has been designed to carry four K-4s or 12 of the 750-km range K-15s and K-5 missile mostly likely will be deployed in Arihant’s sister ship INS Aridhaman later in the decade when both nuclear submarine and missile is ready for induction .
Last edited by SSridhar on 13 Aug 2013 19:57, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Highlight added
kit
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by kit »

probably we can see new bond movies where indian boomers play some roles :mrgreen: ... witness the recent GI joe movie :D
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by SaiK »

I think BO5 can reach targets upto 1.5k km.. need rocket gurus simulations to confirm.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by vasu raya »

Dr.Chander in a recent interview declined to give a timeline on the induction of K4, the last article on the upcoming K4 test states that 4 more tests of B05 and K4 are planned, we know that next B05 test will be from Arihant which leaves 3 tests of K4 alone, if of which the final one is from Arihant, at least 2 more tests from the underwater Pontoon are planned.

Of the rumored previous tests, there was a definitive hint of a pop-up test in 2010
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by ramana »

So more is being made public about the K4 and the Arihant outload capability. Can the Arihant carry a mixed load of K4 and K15? Eg two K4s and the six K15s?

Also pontoon lauch comes after a pad launch to proof the vehicle works. Pontoon launch is to qualify the underwater launch part. After that comes sub launch to qualify the weapons system.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by sum »

Like K-15 missile which was tested recently but actually was twelfth and final development trial of the missiles before the program was officially made public .next month’s test of K-4 most likely will be final development trial or one of many developmental trials of the missile, since it has been long rumoured that first test firing of K-4 might have taken place way back in 2010 itself.
Something tells me the P-II test yesterday was related to the above info?

Maybe the B-05 was already tested yesterday?
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by ramana »

Ye K4 kamal ki cheez hain.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by ramana »

soumik wrote:
abhik wrote:Some thing doesn't add up on the claimed K4 specs. Compared to the Agni3 it weighs 1/3rd, has around the same range and yet has a greater payload (1.5 vs 2t). How come?

Because the range of the A3 is grossly understated, I had written an article on this in defenceforumindia earlier

http://missilethreat.com/agni-missiles- ... s-the-eye/

Soumik, One reason why Indian missiles are heavier is they are based on the boost glide RV (BGRV) concept while those you compare are based on pure ballistic concept. In the BGRV the heavier the payload the more potential energy it has to achieve the gilde path. So its not like Indians are fudging their ranges its just that comparing apples to oranges won't give us the picture.

Try to dig up the experimental flights of the USAF which had the BGRV type payloads and then make an oranges to oranges comparison.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by ramana »

ramana wrote:Ye K4 kamal ki cheez hain.

new Ind Express:

http://newindianexpress.com/thesundayst ... 728237.ece
Amid escalation of simmering tension along the LoC in the wake of unprovoked killing of jawans leading to heightened resentment across the nation, India is contemplating to go for the maiden trial of its long range nuke-capable undersea missile K-4, which had been kept secret so far.

If things go as per the programme, defence sources said the indigenously built submarine launched ballistic (SLBM) missile, which has a strike range of 3000-km to 3,500-km will be test fired from a submerged pontoon, which is almost identical to submarine, off the Vishakhapatnam coast next month.

Though the missile has been designed to be launched from a depth of 50 meter, but this time the scientists are planning to fire it from the undersea platform nearly 20 to 30 meters deep in the Bay of Bengal. Earlier the developmental tests of the missile's gas-booster have already completed successfully.

After the successful activation of the atomic reactor on-board the country’s first indigenous nuclear submarine INS Arihant in the wee hours on Saturday, the DRDO is in fact readying to conduct the first experimental trial of the much-awaited K-4 as soon as possible. This submarine will be equipped with the K-series missiles.

India has so far planned three missiles in the K-series. The 700-km range K-15, renamed as B-05 by the DRDO has been launched 10 times while the K-5 which will have a striking capability of over 5,000 km is under development. All the K-series missiles are faster, lighter and stealthier. The missiles are far more difficult to tackle as they skulk clandestinely undersea and manoeuvrable thus minimising the chance of being shot down by the enemy.

The DRDO is expecting a successful trial of the missile as it would strengthen the country’s position in the very exclusive club of six nations including Russia, USA, France, Britain and China which have the capability of firing nuclear tipped missiles from air, land and undersea.

With a length of 12 meters and diameter of 1.3 meters, the missile weighs around 17 tonne and is capable of carrying a warhead of around 2 tonne. Basically a ballistic missile as it uses solid propellant, the K-4 missile combines the aspects of both cruise and ballistic missile, which use multiple-stage rockets to exit the atmosphere and re-enter in a parabolic trajectory. It flies in hypersonic speed and is the world's best weapon in this class.

At least four tests of B-05 and K-4 missiles have been planned. While the B-05 will be fired from the submarine, K-4 will be launched from the pontoon,” the sources added.

Apart from the K-series missiles, India has the submarine version of BrahMos supersonic cruise missile in its arsenal to boost its second-strike capabilities. However, after the completion of successful trials from INS Arihant, the B-05 missile will be inducted in the armed forces. The DRDO is also developing the air version of the K-series missiles, which can be fitted with fighter aircraft like Sukhoi Su-30-MKI.
IDRW:

http://idrw.org/?p=25622
K-4 SLBM will be Game Changer for India in Asia
Published August 13, 2013 | By admin

SOURCE: VINAYAK SHETTI FOR IDRW NEWS NETWORK ( INN)


K-15 IMAGE

According to media reports India is all set to officially test fire not so secretive K-4 submarine-launched ballistic missile (SLBM) with a range of 3,500 km from a submerged pontoon off the Visakhapatnam coast next month.
Like K-15 missile which was tested recently but actually was twelfth and final development trial of the missiles before the program was officially made public. Next month’s test of K-4 most likely will be final development trial or one of many developmental trials of the missile, since it has been long rumoured that first test firing of K-4 might have taken place way back in 2010 itself.

Faster turnaround on development cycle of K-4 missile was mainly due to many systems which were already perfected while developing the shorter range K-15 SLBM. K-4 will enable an Indian nuclear submarine lurking in the Bay of Bengal to target China and Pakistan simultaneously while staying off Indian coastal waters.

K-4 will be game changer for India in many ways, not only it will complete India’s third leg of the nuclear deterrent (air and ground-launched weapons being the other two) and will also be ideal invulnerable second strike weapon stated in the nuclear doctrine. K-4 even with reduced payload will be able to hit from Bay of Bengal into deeper Chinese cities while staying far away from coast waters of China.

K-15 SLBM which was dubbed Pakistan specific due to its limited range of 750 km mostly could have been used to take out coastal targets rather than deeper targets in main cities. So testing of K-4 SLBM has much more significance to Indian planners since it will be able to hit deeper targets due to better range and in true sense completing India’s nuclear triad.

K-5 which will be next SLBM, which DRDO is working on will have official range of 5000 km and is rumoured to be longer-legged variant of the K-4 incorporating many of the systems and guidance packages of K-4 itself. All the K-series missiles are faster, lighter and stealthier and are named after India’s missile man, former President APJ Abdul Kalam (K stands for Kalam ) , all K series of missiles are designed to defeat even best missile defence systems currently deployed in the world .

INS Arihant has been designed to carry four K-4s or 12 of the 750-km range K-15s and K-5 missile mostly likely will be deployed in Arihant’s sister ship INS Aridhaman later in the decade when both nuclear submarine and missile is ready for induction .


Following based on off line discussions with ArunS:

So one can compare the K-4 dimensions to that of the K-15 which is already published. Most of the sub-systems of K-4 are same as K-15.

In all likelihood the K-4 has similar zero stage to eject it out of the pontoon/sub launch tube.

The K-15 was about 0.7m dia. K-4 is about double the diameter of K-15. So we can estimate its propellent mass and other features from this. Of the weight of 17 tonnes, the payload is 2 tonnes which makes the vehicle weigth about 15 tonnes.

The ballistic/cruise modes indicate its will be like Shourya in its fligh profile. The heavy payload of 2tonnes is what gives its glide phase.


Yes its a game changer as the scientist said.


Arihant will have the 12 K-15s for initial outload and then come back for refit with K-4s unless they are for the second boat.
The K-5 is probably for the follow-on design.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by ramana »

India Today 2010 article on K-4 test

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/the- ... 20488.html

It claims it was already pontoon tested. The second test which is expected next month
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by SSridhar »

ramana wrote:India Today 2010 article on K-4 test

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/the- ... 20488.html

It claims it was already pontoon tested. The second test which is expected next month
The gas boosters were tested a few times followed by a pontoon test of K-4 in c. 2010. I have posted this before.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by ramana »

The gas booster is a cartridge that ignites to launch the vehicle from the pontoon tube. It is used for the underwater launch phase.
And is repeated many times(>15 times) with a dummy vehicle to ensure reliable and safe launch. So when media reports one has to be clear about what is being tested:gas booster-dummy vehicle system from the pontoon or the vehicle launch from the pontoon?

I think the K-4 has not been launched from the pontoon and is slated next month.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by SSridhar »

Developing a More Indian Defence -Dr. Avinash Chander's Interview in The Hindu
On the missile programme

Agni V is moving ahead. Agni IV and V both are going to be inducted in the next couple of years. We will be going for user trials of Agni IV which has a range of 4,000 km and Agni V which has a range of 5,000 km. Then we are going for Long Range Surface to Air Missile (LRSAM.) and its trials are going to take place in Israel very soon. Astra air-to-air missile programme is also going very well. Astra will be going for the Sukhoi SU-30 launch by this year end. Nag — we had very good tests for seekers also recently, we are confident that Nag will also be able to meet performance requirements of the users in the very severe environmental conditions of the Indian desert. We are also working on futuristic, new long-range surface-to-air missiles of 250 to 300 km range. {Is that the VLR-SAM that was announced in January this year ?} We are working on multi-range missiles, also on short-range surface-to-air missile. The aim is to become globally competitive in terms of missile accuracy, lethality and range.

On tactical missiles like Prahar

Prahar will go for user trial shortly, this year. Prahar is a good [surface-to-surface] system with a range of 140 km. It will have an accuracy of two metres and that is a very vital addition.{We now have from the horse's moth. Earlier reports had spoken of 10m accuracy} We are also enhancing the range of Pinaka rockets from the existing 40 km to 60 km for Pinaka mark II. Prahar will be the third layer to cover up to 140 km, which is a very potent layer.

Comparison with Chinese missiles

In terms of technology and performance, Indian missile systems are comparable with any other system in the world, including whatever our neighbours have — comparable and better also in some cases. Total variety and ranges of the systems are decided based on each country’s individual requirements, how they see the threat and their role in the global scenario. The extent of the arsenal may differ but what we have is comparable with the best.

On India’s quest for high-end technology

For high-end technology, nobody in the world will help you. We have to have our own initiative. This is one area where the country needs to give a lot more thrust. For example, the material gap — on metallic composites or carbon composites or polymeric materials, even sensors, rare earth materials — has been identified as the key area where we need to take up initiatives. Today we have become highly self-sufficient and capable in designing world-class systems whether it is radars, missiles, or sonars, but what we need to strengthen is the sub-system and the components, devices and the raw materials. For the Agni strategic system where we had no option to import, we have gone 85-per-cent indigenous. But similar things have to be done in other areas such as tactical missiles. We require tungsten and other materials which India does not produce. We have to take extra initiative in terms of investment and technology, infrastructure, knowledge generation.

On the role of private sector

Private sector is providing the infrastructure and in many cases they are joining hands with industries abroad but a lot more needs to be done in the private sector in the R&D department. If you see the industrial R&D in the U.S., it is almost 50 per cent of the total R&D expenditure, whereas in India it is very meagre part of it. And most of it is perhaps ceremonial.

On FDI in defence

Let good technology come in, there is no harm. We are not opening up just to get money.

On indigenisation and licensed production

In today’s globalised environment, we have to see what needs to be bought, what needs to be developed and what needs to have transfer of technology. You cannot afford to make everything yourself. It is neither viable nor cost effective in the long-term — and that is where the decision has to be taken.

For example, today in DRDO, if industry can make something, it’s a good thing. We don’t want to start developing [the same thing]. [We] can work on the next higher end products, the higher level of technology. The industry also has to see if something [it is developing] is commercially available at a cheaper price. Life-cycle costs are the critical part. It is not just one-time buying of one thing, the question is how are you going to support it and whether support will be available under all conditions.

For licensed production, if we are able to get good technology that is good. But if it ends with assembling and processes coming from abroad, then we have to see. Again, licensed production for MiGs helped in creating a large infrastructure base and today we are able to go for LCA and other things. To that extent, it has been very helpful. But if you look at the knowledge gained through licensed products, it is a matter of debate. I am not aware of any major system for which we have taken licensed production and then built on it and arrived at a better product. We keep building the same thing, we are not getting the knowledge to build a better system — that is why our licensed production methodologies have to be re-examined. China is doing intelligent reverse engineering and many countries have done that in the past. That is the way of moving forward.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by Juggi G »

Astra BVRAAM in captive flight trials on an IAF Su-30MKI

Image
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by member_23707 »

SSridhar wrote:
ramana wrote:India Today 2010 article on K-4 test

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/the- ... 20488.html

It claims it was already pontoon tested. The second test which is expected next month
The gas boosters were tested a few times followed by a pontoon test of K-4 in c. 2010. I have posted this before.
Hi everybody . Longtime lurker in this forum . Was waiting for the information regarding K4 to come out a little bit, before posting about it . I know somebody who has worked on K4 and lets just say the development on that is way past people here think it is . I have seen the proof with my eyes and be prepared to be surprised when it officially comes out.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by SSridhar »

pankaj_choudhry, welcome to the forum. Two requests. One, post frequently and be active. Two, official surprises are what we look forward to, if you know what I mean, and therefore, we always wait patiently for such news items.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by Karan M »

That Astra appears to be from the old tests which were given up..the entire missile underwent a redesign.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by Karan M »

This is the new design...
Glad to say it looks like a unique design and unlike any other AAM..the previous one looked like an extended reworked Mica and had performance issues...

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-LHpzNP9mRE4/U ... ki+(3).jpg
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by pankajs »

Weather shadow on CLG missile test
The DRDO is likely to defer proposed trial of an advanced version of cannon launched laser-guided missile (CLGM) which was to be tested from a defence base off Odisha coast on Wednesday.
The missile has been developed by the Aeronautical Development Establishment at Bangalore and is a new generation anti-tank missile. It can neutralise any target in three to five km range. It is an all terrain missile that can be used by the Army, Navy and Air Force. The missile will be equipped with Arjun MK-2 and MK-1 tanks. The missile can also target armoured targets and helicopters at extended ranges.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by member_20453 »

Edited ramana.

No need for all those details. Thanks for throwing the person under the bus.

Nice friendship.
Last edited by ramana on 23 Aug 2013 08:47, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: ramana
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by SaiK »

when ddm uses the term "game changer", it must be taken only from the angle of capabilities. it requires regime and doctrine change to play the right game to advance. else, all these will only be in the books.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by kit »

Edited. ramana

Dude internet is no longer a childs playground.Be careful what you post and even infer to .. things could happen in ways you dont imagine
Last edited by ramana on 23 Aug 2013 08:48, edited 1 time in total.
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Manish_Sharma
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by Manish_Sharma »

kit wrote:probably we can see new bond movies where indian boomers play some roles :mrgreen: ... witness the recent GI joe movie :D
B-retard serial spooks already made a serial on our nuclear sub trapped and forced into pakistani port :roll:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Series_8,_ ... 8Spooks%29
An Indian submarine is forced into port at Karachi by the Pakistan Navy. Knowing it is a Nightingale plot – Pakistani General Azim Ali is a member – Section D learn they have a week to stop a nuclear war between India and Pakistan. News of this shocks the team, particularly Tariq Masood (Shazad Latif), who has family in Lahore. Ruth Evershed (Nicola Walker) discovers the name of a prominent Nightingale operative, Hans Lindemann. While Lucas North and Ros Myers work to bug Lindemann's office, Sarah Caufield returns, having been ordered by CIA Head of European Operations Russell Price (Mark Aiken), also a Nightingale member, to kill Lucas. Instead, Sarah warns him to leave the country before escaping.

Ruth meets a Chinese contact, Heng (Roger Yuan), who tells her that both countries will fail the negotiations and that war is inevitable. He is shot dead by an assassin in front of her. Tariq finds Sarah staying at a hotel under an assumed name. Lucas and Ros apprehend her after Lucas distracts her and Ros shoots her in the leg. At a hospital, Sarah reveals to Lucas that Nightingale wants India and Pakistan to go to war in order to "contain" the future, where Nightingale believes the Taliban will take over Pakistan and gain control of nuclear weapons, though the war will kill several million innocent lives in the process. As Lucas leaves the room momentarily to call Ros, an assassin kills Sarah; Lucas captures him and learns that Price arranged the hit.

To prevent negotiations from succeeding, Price rigs the Summit hotel with explosives. To prevent Pakistani President Mudasser (Nicholas Khan) and Home Secretary Andrew Lawrence (Tobias Menzies) from escaping, he paralyses both of them. Learning Price is in the hotel, Lucas and Ros arrive and capture him. Since disarming the bomb is impossible, Ros threatens to leave Price behind when the bomb explodes unless he divulges the room both politicians are held. Although Price eventually discloses the room number, Ros leaves him in the room where the bomb is anyway. Lucas is able to carry Mudasser safely out of the hotel, where he recovers and orders the release of the Indian submarine, preventing the war. However, Ros is still in the hotel, struggling to pull Lawrence to safety. As Lucas runs back to aid her, the hotel explodes, killing Lawrence, Price and Ros.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by Prem Kumar »

Thanks Septimus. The high accuracy of the latest Agnis was well known but its always great to get insider confirmation.

Pankaj: welcome to the forum. If "allowed to share" info about K5 is available, please share a tidbit or two about it
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by ramana »

How does the "CLGM" differ from the "Invar" for the T-90s?
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by Prem Kumar »

SSridhar: great interview with Avinash Chander. A worthy successor to Saraswat. Nice to hear about the extended range SAM, confirmation of Pinaka-2 range, Prahaar accuracy (2m - wow!) etc. I just hope these get through trials quickly and get inducted in large numbers. Given the artillery cluster f@$&, I hope the Indian Army embraces Prahaar & Pinaka 2 with open arms, like they did with Pinaka 1.

He makes an interesting point about license production. Says it helped build the infrastructure necessary for projects like LCA but we have never evolved any system beyond what was in the manuals. No learning, reverse engineering or improvement. It hits the nail on the head!

The only exception I can think of is the SU-30 MKI

Perhaps, DRDO should depute a team of scientists & engineers who would be embedded in HAL & other license manufacturing DPSUs. Their primary job function should be reverse engineering. The DPSUs just dont have the mindset or the incentives to do it themselves.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by Prem Kumar »

Ramana: CLGM is the LAHAT replacement for Arjuns (120 mm). Invar was for T-90s. Same concept for all 3 - laser guided ATGMs with CLGM/LAHAT having an optional anti helicopter role. Similar ranges. CLGM also had another name - SAMHO.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by jamwal »

kit wrote:
Septimus P. wrote:During my recent visit to India..
Dude internet is no longer a childs playground.Be careful what you post and even infer to .. things could happen in ways you dont imagine
You should not quote the post to make such a point
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by Karan M »

SSridhar wrote:We are also working on futuristic, new long-range surface-to-air missiles of 250 to 300 km range. {Is that the VLR-SAM that was announced in January this year ?}
SSridharji, which one do you mean? My take is that this is a brand new program, and not a derivative of an existing one (e.g. the LRSAM). Interesting thing is that by taking up this program, additional building blocks like high grade, long range AESA radars will get developed along with it, which means another + for the IAF/IA/IN, and perhaps the final gap in the arsenal is plugged, import wise.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by Prem Kumar »

Avinash Chander had also alluded to VLR-SAM sometime back. He mentions it again now. Work must be on full swing.

Its likely that it will share commonalities with our BMD system. Hopefully they will converge towards a standard family of SM type missiles - covering both air defense & BMD, with deployments on land and ships.

I think DRDO got kind of arm-twisted into the LRSAM deal. They went along because nothing better was available & their in-house tech hadnt matured. It was a decent stop gap arrangement (though, with the LRSAM delays, the rationale for the decision is becoming more untenable). But they must have always had the vision for the big thing, which they are going on their own.

Very exciting!
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by srin »

The Barak-8 with 70 KM is called LR-SAM by Navy, but an extended version with 120 KM range is only MR-SAM for Airforce. So naming itself suggests that Airforce's concept of "LR SAM" has far higher range. Now, that is getting concrete shape.
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