Su-30: News and Discussion

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 29 Aug 2013 19:42

Su-30SM and PAK FA at MAKS. Su-30 SM = Russianized Su-30 MKI ..MKR desig. apparently is to be used for recce version of MKA for Algerians..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5wgyMwOGoA

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 29 Aug 2013 20:30

Folks just think it over before hitting the 'submit' button. Would you like someone to address the way you are addressing others?
And its a life long learning process. The lower elevation sea recieves all the waters of the rivers.

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 29 Aug 2013 20:45

about purchasing SU34s - SU30MKI is suppose to perform all the jobs of SU34 along with fighter job also. So why there is a need for 34 bomber?

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 31 Aug 2013 02:52

Indo-Russian military aviation projects on schedule: HAL executive
http://indrus.in/economics/2013/08/29/i ... 28907.html

R. P. Chakraborty, Deputy General Manager (IMM) at HAL said on Wednesday.

The Sukhoi Su-30 MKI, a heavy, all-weather, long-range fighter is being assembled under license by HAL. “140 of these aircrafts are being upgraded now,” Chakraborty said, adding the planes would have stronger radars, greater avionic sub-systems and an upgraded weapons system with an improvement in missile firing integration and firing.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 31 Aug 2013 03:35

http://indrus.in/economics/2013/03/05/r ... 22685.html

March 5, 2013 Viktor Litovkin, NVO

Even leaving aside the fifth-generation fighter aircraft we are developing together with the Indians and whose mock-up was exhibited at the pavilion of the HAL (Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd) corporation, keep in mind that negotiations on upgrading the previously supplied Sukhoi-30MKIs are underway. A conceptual and engineering design for the upgrade has already been approved, and the signing of a contract on experimental design work is expected by the end of this year. According to Yuri Bely, general director of the Tikhomirov NIIP, the upgrades will involve extending the range of the radar, enhancing the APAR’s resolution, and adapting the radar to accommodate new weapons that are to be deployed on the plane. These might include the BrahMos missile, which experts believe the Indians are planning to put in the
air and launch from a plane as soon as this year.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 31 Aug 2013 07:29

so that means the zhuk ae aesa is out. makes sense to upg the bars itself. the final MLU of the mki's could have the pakfa front radar...which I think is again by tikhomirov.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 01 Sep 2013 21:04

BARS has tremendous upgrade potential , there was an interview with NIIP chief that mentioned an upgraded BARS would be on par with Irbis ... not sure why IAF would want to slap an AESA now , atleast with upgrade the BARS can carry on for more than a decade and half.

This decade we would any way get AESA via MMRCA,FGFA and Tejas Mk2.

Some good inflight video of Su-30SM.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnV2CYyoyLU

Eric Leiderman · Post by **Eric Leiderman** » 01 Sep 2013 22:59

In the video above what are the two probes on either side of the cockpit that look like mini mid-air refueling probes.

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 02 Sep 2013 10:43

cant check the video since am at work, but from your description they sound like air data probes.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 09 Sep 2013 00:17

IAF wants to acquire the Kh-31PD. That would clearly go on the Sukhois as well.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BSQzjS3CQAEoZCz.jpg

Brahmos Blocks explained - with terminal dive, Brahmos is virtually immune to most systems out there with only BMD specific SM-3, Aster-30, Barak-8 mentioned as possible defences. IIRC its the terminal dive capability that is worrisome for USN versus Chinese BMs as well.

http://defense-update.com/20130206_the- ... -2015.html

The current missile is also undergoing improvements. Earlier this year, the Indian Navy successfully tested a highly maneuverable version of a sea-based BrahMos supersonic cruise missile. Russia and India have recently agreed to continue the development of the BrahMos weapon system. BrahMos is developed in three block configurations. Block I is the anti-ship/precision strike version, primarily destined for use in coastal defense. BrahMos Block II is available for the land-based variant, equipped with additional target discrimination features enabling the missile to perform ‘surgical strike’ missions. This variant is adapted for urban and desert warfare. BrahMos Block III recently tested, employs added features for enhanced manoeuvrability, enabling terminal steep dive endgame. This version is developped to enable surgical strike at mountain areas but will also be useful against naval targets that are more difficult to defend against vertical threats.

The company now studies a futuristic hypersonic (Mach 5-7) BrahMos 2 missile, which will be able to outperform any defense available today. According to Pillai, the next generation BrahMis 2 will be part of the next five-year development cycle to commence in 2017. The missile could ready for hypersonic test flight by year 2020. While flying at such high velocities BrahMos II will maintain the missile’s high precision capability.

The specially modified Su-30MKI will carry a single air-launched BrahMos supersonic anti-ship missile, and two subsonic two Kh-59. The different weapons could be launched from different ranges at different times to coordinate a ripple-effect, saturate the target defenses.

http://defense-update.com/wp-content/up ... -30MKI.jpg

fanne · Post by **fanne** » 09 Sep 2013 04:44

The only way out of jam for IAF is to increase its holding of SU 30mki to 20 squadrons (400 planes).

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 09 Sep 2013 05:17

it should be then phase 4 upgrade standards.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 09 Sep 2013 09:49

Karan M wrote:IAF wants to acquire the Kh-31PD. That would clearly go on the Sukhois as well.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BSQzjS3CQAEoZCz.jpg

Interesting to see Kh-31PD on Mig-29UPG , this would really be a good long range stand off weapon , Considering the latest variant of PD carried a broad band seeker , this should be a great ARM against broad range of SAM radar

Kh-31PD Airborne High Speed Anti-Radar Missile
http://eng.ktrv.ru/production_eng/323/511/565/

Hopefully we also acquire the latest variant of anti-ship variant of that type Kh-31AD , though not an absolute necessaity for Mig-29 as IAF wont employ these in anti-ship role but for Su-30MKI it would make sense.

Kh-31AD Airborne Guided Missile
http://eng.ktrv.ru/production_eng/323/512/564/

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 09 Sep 2013 16:42

PD will come with the Rafale and Super 30. Upg has P as PD was not expected to be ready by then. Same is the case with both RVVSD and RVVMD. Different thing that Upg itself has been delayed by some 2 years and hence we could have gone for these missiles. At any rate, India really needs Astra and its own ARM to build up stocks. For hedging risk, we are even replacing AA10 stocks and unless upgraded, that missile is very long in the tooth. SARH variants and IR ones both are pretty old tech.
Kh31a might be acquired if the MKIs replace the Jag IMs and the MiG27s based for naval support.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 29 Sep 2013 11:37

Some cockpit video of Su-27SM3 and rear cockpit of Su-27 ....probably an earlier Su-30M2

Su-30M2 http://youtu.be/lrEah7GOPJk
Su-27SM3 http://youtu.be/CIEm9hQ0ABw

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 29 Sep 2013 13:29

Edit:referring to PakFa

Latest article in Air International by Piotr Butowski. A serious author and not some hack.

The frontal array has 1522 modules-should be pretty powerful.
N036 radar has LBand arrays for both IFF AND A2A target detection.
The side arrays will enhance coverage in the a2a with coverage of upto 135 deg, and will have around 400 modules each. Plus with horizontal polarization be good for a2g coverage. There will be a pod mounted mmw radar as well. The FGFA radar derived from the N036 will also have Indian participation, and will be called the N079. The PAKFA avionics suite will not just utilize an EW Tx-Rx in the tail sting but also leverage the frontal radar array.
In another first, the EO suite will have a DIRCM. Butowski confirms this for the second time.

Cybaru · Post by **Cybaru** » 01 Oct 2013 22:50

Hopefully the Su-30 UPG has lots of commonality with PAKFA as this will streamline training for pilots & maintenance for ground crews when PAKFA starts around 2020.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 05 Nov 2013 13:39

140 Su-30MKI are being upgraded link

Sukhoi Su-30 MKI, a heavy, all-weather, long-range fighter is being assembled under license by HAL. “140 of these aircrafts are being upgraded now,” Chakraborty said, adding the planes would have stronger radars, greater avionic sub-systems and an upgraded weapons system with an improvement in missile firing integration and firing.

Sancho · Post by **Sancho** » 09 Nov 2013 12:32

Austin wrote: Hopefully we also acquire the latest variant of anti-ship variant of that type Kh-31AD , though not an absolute necessaity for Mig-29 as IAF wont employ these in anti-ship role but for Su-30MKI it would make sense.

The Mig 29UPGs will get Kh35 anti ship missiles, as could be seen in various pics during the tests in Russia and to have commonality to the IN Mig 29Ks. That means that apart from the Jags at Jamnagar, the Mig 29UPGs will take over anti ship roles too. The MKI with Brahmos then add more punch on top of that, but if they really need Kh35 is questionable.

Austin wrote:140 Su-30MKI are being upgraded link

Sukhoi Su-30 MKI, a heavy, all-weather, long-range fighter is being assembled under license by HAL. “140 of these aircrafts are being upgraded now,” Chakraborty said, adding the planes would have stronger radars, greater avionic sub-systems and an upgraded weapons system with an improvement in missile firing integration and firing.

Interesting that they also don't mention any upgrades to the engines, so no additional thrust, only weight reductions?

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 21 Nov 2013 19:01

http://www.deccanherald.com/content/370 ... ahmos.html
IAF decides on Sukhoi-30 for BrahMos, final tests from end-'14

The Indian Air Force has chosen its frontline Sukhoi-30 fighter jets as the platform to mount the supersonic BrahMos missiles, whose first test launch will be carried out by the end of 2014, a top official said today.

"We have chosen Sukhoi-30. That is a deep penetration aircraft which is being produced at Hindustan Aeronautics Limited's Nashik facility in collaboration with the Russians," BrahMos Aerospace managing director and chief executive AS Pillai told reporters here.

He said an air version of the BrahMos missile is ready, but testing, simulations and aircraft modifications will take a year more and the final flight with the missile will happen only by the end of 2014.

Under a contract, BrahMos Aerospace has to deliver the supersonic cruise missile to the IAF starting 2015 and Pillai exuded confidence that the deadline will be met.

Pillai said the IAF asked for the weight of the missile to be reduced to 2.5 tonne from the general 3 tonne as the launch at high speeds requires lesser components on propulsion, and his company has been able to do it.

The BrahMos was jointly developed in the early 2000s and has since been inducted by the Army and the Navy. An air platform, has however, not been completed yet.

Pillai claimed it is the only supersonic cruise missile platform in the world which travels at supersonic speeds and can be launched from both sea and land.

BrahMos Aerospace is a 50.5:49.5 partnership between India's Defence Research and Development Organisation and Russia's NOPM, and it has been tasked with manufacturing the missile for use by the armed forces of both the countries.

Asked about the failure of the company to convince the Russian armed forces to induct the missile system even after a decade of its launch, Pillai said the company will take up the matter with the Russians for induction.

"We are making all out effort for this. As per the inter-governmental agreement, India and Russia both have to induct the JV product and also, we can sell to some friendly countries... we are telling the Russian government it is time they inducted it," Pillai said.

He said recently Indian engineers fitted the missile system on a Talwar class frigate being built at a Russian shipyard, and added Russia can also emulate it.

Pillai, however, said each country's individual threat perceptions and strategies may differ.

The order book of BrahMos Aerospace currently stands at USD 6 billion and it is targeting to take it to USD 10 billion in a few years' time.

The company typically outsources a slew of jobs which go into the making of the missile system to the private sector players like Godrej & Boyce, L&T, among others for faster production.

Godrej completed a contract to deliver 40 air frames of the missile, which include combined pneumo-hydro systems, wing, fin, nose-cap and nose-cap motors, last month and kicked off a four-year efforts to deliver 100 more today, chairman and managing director Jamshyd Godrej said.

He said the company is very happy at partnering with the government bodies for the BrahMos project, and added that Godrej was working closely with other strategic projects like the ISRO's missions to Mars and Moon and the Prithvi missile, among others.

Godrej said though defence and strategic work does not contribute a significant portion to the company's revenues, the company engages in such activities "given its DNA".

Pillai said his company is presently working on the next level of the BrahMos, which entails making it into a reusable hypersonic missile which will hit the target and come back to the base. The project will take up to seven years to come to fruition.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 02 Dec 2013 22:27

Check out the pic of color Litening imagery in the MFD

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/Galle ... 1.jpg.html

srai · Post by **srai** » 03 Dec 2013 16:25

Austin wrote:...

Hopefully we also acquire the latest variant of anti-ship variant of that type Kh-31AD , though not an absolute necessaity for Mig-29 as IAF wont employ these in anti-ship role but for Su-30MKI it would make sense.

Kh-31AD Airborne Guided Missile
http://eng.ktrv.ru/production_eng/323/512/564/

Karan M wrote:...
Kh31a might be acquired if the MKIs replace the Jag IMs and the MiG27s based for naval support.

Aren't the Su-30MKIs using Kh-59 "MK" for anti-shipping role, or are they "M2E/MK2" land-attack variants? According to SIPRI, 100 Kh-59s were bought along with 200 Kh-31. The Kh-31 has turned out to be "P" - anti-radiation variant.

The IAF plans to acquire 200 air-launched Brahmos, which according to various reports will be more for land-attack role.

There was also a picture of MiG-29UPG with Kh-35 during trials in Russia. It is not clear if the IAF has ordered these missiles or not for anti-shipping role.

On the other hand, the IN has also opted for Kh-35E for its MiG-29Ks.
Here's a photo:

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 03 Dec 2013 18:28

who are all these ladies ?

member_20067 · Post by **member_20067** » 03 Dec 2013 18:48

Singha wrote:who are all these ladies ?

Ladies of the pilots and naval personnel during the induction ceremony if I remember correctly

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 03 Dec 2013 18:53

srai wrote:Aren't the Su-30MKIs using Kh-59 "MK" for anti-shipping role, or are they "M2E/MK2" land-attack variants? According to SIPRI, 100 Kh-59s were bought along with 200 Kh-31. The Kh-31 has turned out to be "P" - anti-radiation variant.

As I recall, they were Kh-59ME (M2E MK2 iirc is a new variant only recently in production).
Kh-31s were a mix of A and Ps. Will post some stuff if i find it (it had a list of exports from the russian side). P systems initially had reliability issues. Presumably fixed. IAF purchased other systems for SEAD as well, plus there is now the DRDO ARM program. (In NAL AR, you can even see a Martel airframe being wind tunnel tested).
BTW, Su-30 MKIs use Kh-29s as well. There is at least one pic of a Litening equipped Su-30MKI firing a Kh-29 (I dont remember whether it was a T/L). Plus they have KAB-500/1500s (released at height, these can have a substantial range).

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 03 Dec 2013 18:54

Singha wrote:who are all these ladies ?

I saw it thrice to even see where a Kh-35 was.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 03 Dec 2013 19:21

Public sources.

Yefim Gordon, aviation author in one of his Su-27 books:
IAF bought xx Kh-59ME along the first 40 Su-30MKI.

Norman Friedman (US Aviation analyst)
By 1998, India bought xx Kh-31P and xx Kh-31A for the Su-30M.

IAF Su-30MKI firing a Kh-29T.Note the plane is not in a dive, so designation was by Litening LDP and not onboard OLS-30 which per public literature has the capability as well) http://www.flickr.com/photos/torqueavia ... 5465029780

Also in 2010 Vayu Shakti, Su-30 MKI dropped a LGB which was designated by UAV , shown on DD1 (same capability was demonstrated in 2004 by MiG-27 Upg with Searcher 2 - press release on MOD website).

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 10 Dec 2013 16:50

Flanker diplomacy: Win-win for India in Asia

srai · Post by **srai** » 10 Dec 2013 21:22

Karan M wrote:...

IAF Su-30MKI firing a Kh-29T.Note the plane is not in a dive, so designation was by Litening LDP and not onboard OLS-30 which per public literature has the capability as well) http://www.flickr.com/photos/torqueavia ... 5465029780

...

MiG-27 w/ Kh-29:

Kersi D · Post by **Kersi D** » 18 Dec 2013 23:15

srai wrote:
Karan M wrote:...

IAF Su-30MKI firing a Kh-29T.Note the plane is not in a dive, so designation was by Litening LDP and not onboard OLS-30 which per public literature has the capability as well) http://www.flickr.com/photos/torqueavia ... 5465029780

...
MiG-27 w/ Kh-29:

I think a MiG 27 with Kh 29 ASM was displayed on a float on a Republic Day parade, ages ago

K

venkat_r · Post by **venkat_r** » 19 Dec 2013 00:36

Austin wrote:Flanker diplomacy: Win-win for India in Asia

Nice!! Ofcourse more is needed to build partnerships with Indonesia and Malysia, but a good start.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 19 Dec 2013 04:25

srai wrote:
Karan M wrote:...

IAF Su-30MKI firing a Kh-29T.Note the plane is not in a dive, so designation was by Litening LDP and not onboard OLS-30 which per public literature has the capability as well) http://www.flickr.com/photos/torqueavia ... 5465029780

...
MiG-27 w/ Kh-29:

Thats a good find, which year is that pic from? That is an upgraded MiG-27, correct? So it too should be Litening capable. BTW, Kh-series ASMs were ranked by IAF highly as they performed well in live fire trials.

Shrinivasan · Post by **Shrinivasan** » 05 Jan 2014 12:07

There is an interesting article from Bear Land about how the Flanker has been a game changer for Desh.. Read on here at http://indrus.in/blogs/2014/01/05/how_t ... 32099.html

One interesting info is an hypothesis of having a Nuclear warhead in an Air launched Brahmos? This has never been discussed except in Deaf and Dumb forum... What gives.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 05 Jan 2014 12:35

srai wrote:MiG-27 w/ Kh-29:

Apparently a non upgraded MiG-27 from AF Day 2009.

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 05 Jan 2014 14:19

In previous wars the IAF avoided attacks on non-military infrastructure, preferring to target tanker farms and military bases. The decision to equip the Sukhois with the BrahMos creates new synergies and signals a new intent. The Sukhoi’s radar can detect tall buildings at a distance of 400 km and small building at 120 km. The BrahMos is a highly destructive missile and belongs to a class of Russian missiles that are designed to cut small warships in half. So in the next war expect a lot of damage to enemy infrastructure – dams, power stations and industrial clusters are all likely to be targeted.
Related:

There is another ominous angle. India’s Strategic Forces Command (SFC) has asked for 40 nuclear capable strike aircraft to be used conjointly with land-based and submarine launched ballistic missiles. Although it’s not clear whether the IAF or the SFC will operate this mini air force, what is clear is that exactly 40 Su-30 MKIs have been converted to carry the BrahMos. That’s some coincidence.

There was an American TV series a while called "Alias" IIRC. In one of the episodes the protaganists escapes Paki troops thanks to IAF Sukhois attacking with Uran missiles. Need to download that episode

Shrinivasan wrote:There is an interesting article from Bear Land about how the Flanker has been a game changer for Desh.. Read on here at http://indrus.in/blogs/2014/01/05/how_t ... 32099.html

One interesting info is an hypothesis of having a Nuclear warhead in an Air launched Brahmos? This has never been discussed except in Deaf and Dumb forum... What gives.

kit · Post by **kit** » 05 Jan 2014 17:05

Shrinivasan wrote:There is an interesting article from Bear Land about how the Flanker has been a game changer for Desh.. Read on here at http://indrus.in/blogs/2014/01/05/how_t ... 32099.html

One interesting info is an hypothesis of having a Nuclear warhead in an Air launched Brahmos? This has never been discussed except in Deaf and Dumb forum... What gives.

The role is for the 30 odd super Sukhois already negotiated with the Russians .. to be nuclear armed and directly under the Strategic Forces Command.not the mki variant ..probably a different designation ?

Shrinivasan · Post by **Shrinivasan** » 05 Jan 2014 17:28

^^^ the article mentions SU30 MKI only, BTB my surprise was not in "nuclear role for SU30", but a nuclear role for Brahmos!!!

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 05 Jan 2014 18:07

Shrinivasan wrote:^^^ the article mentions SU30 MKI only, BTB my surprise was not in "nuclear role for SU30", but a nuclear role for Brahmos!!!

While SFC Su-30s may be tasked with nuclear delivery and Brahmos launch, it does not mean that Brahmos will be nuclear. The missile may still be used for 'strategic' missions which require conventional munitions.

Shrinivasan · Post by **Shrinivasan** » 05 Jan 2014 18:39

Aditya G wrote:
Shrinivasan wrote:^^^ the article mentions SU30 MKI only, BTB my surprise was not in "nuclear role for SU30", but a nuclear role for Brahmos!!!
While SFC Su-30s may be tasked with nuclear delivery and Brahmos launch, it does not mean that Brahmos will be nuclear. The missile may still be used for 'strategic' missions which require conventional munitions.

Aditya, the article is specifically talking about a nuclear warhead on a Brahmos (that too a leaner version)... See the exact snippet from the article below

A nuclear warhead on an air-launched BrahMos fired from a super-manoeuvrable Su-30 MKI won’t just further enhance the IAF’s strike capability and aircraft survivability, it would also complicate the enemy’s defence planning.

I have never heard about a nuclear warhead on a Brahmos...

vivek_ahuja · Post by **vivek_ahuja** » 05 Jan 2014 21:58

Um, putting aside the issue of mating a warhead to a delivery device, has a miniature nuke of that size (to allow integration with the Brahmos payload volume and mass bracket) ever been tested at all? Else we are getting ahead of ourselves.

Don't want to bet the farm on a warhead that hasn't been tested for that size and weight category, no?