Indo-UK News and Discussion - April 2013

[vishvak]

But Amrikhan, Queendom and pukis are allies in war on terror therefore this is outrageous to pukis. Khatare me he!

[Philip]

This is an intriguing story,in this obit of Hitler's bodyguard,the truth about Rudolf Hess'a flight to Britain.Though still shrouded with a veil of secrecy,this is roughly what really happened.

Hitler never intended to go to war with Britain.As is commonly known,the British royal family is actually of German extraction.There was apart from the Duke of Windsor,the most prominent pro-Nazi figure,who met with Hitler several times,several other members of the Brit. establishment including prominent members of the aristocracy were pro-Germany and wanted a cease-fire/negotiated settlement with Germany after the collapse of France.Hitler was half-hearted in invading Britain and the bombing campaign of Britain was meant to bring it to its knees and that of his pet hate,"that cigar smoking Jew,Churchill"! There are pics of Prince Philip and Lord Mountbatten part of the funeral cortege of a prominent Nazi pre-war.Prince Philip's sisters married German aristocrats.

After the fall of France,this part of the establishment were allegedly secretly negotiating a peace deal with Germany/Hitler. A replacement for Churchill was even found,a prominent and respected British diplomat.Hess' fight was ultra-secret.He was the only person whom Hitler trusted.Which is why his flight was received with such surprise by core Nazi insiders. He was to have met this group and worked out the details.Unfortunately Churchill knew of the plan (the Brits had broken the German codes and Churchill had his eye constantly on key pro-Nazi aristos) and intercepted Hess on arrival where he was seized.Hitler was deeply distressed after the news broke,as this meant his "peace on his terms " with Britain had collapsed and it would mean continuing fighting on two fronts, where his chief enemy was Stalin and Russia which he secretly planned to invade. He had no alternative but to say that Hess had acted on his won and had lost his "marbles". Now Hess alive was also a great liability for Churchill, for if news of his/Hitler's offer was made public,which it would inevitably would leak out,T time when Britain was on its knees,could/ve have unseated Churchill. A double was secretly found,while Hess was to have been secretly flown back via a Scandinavian nation in a seaplane,ostensibly with a reply. The aircraft was allegedly deliberately sabotaged by the Brit intel,on Churchill's orders.There was one extra body found,covered up after the accident,it was that of Hess.His double was incarcerated in Spandau prsion,where he pretended to have lost his memory and was never released because of British objections until his death.

While we in India have little love lost for Churchill because of his disparaging views of the country and our people,in war he was a most ruthless and brilliant strategist.It was his sheer willpower that truly prevented Hitler from getting Britain to capitulate om his terms.Had Hitler achieved his goal of keeping Britain out of the war,WW2 would've had a different ending.The Nazis would've had to deal only with Communist Russia ,and the US,where there was also huge pro-German sympathy,from the likes of the Bush family,etc.,and a deep hatred of communism,would never have got involved.Germany and Japan would've shared the spoils of Russia and Asia between them.Perhaps we would've eventually all been speaking German or Japanese, ja?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/obituar ... Misch.html

Rochus Misch

Rochus Misch, who has died aged 96, worked for five years as Adolf Hitler’s bodyguard, courier, orderly, and latterly Chief of Communications, acquiring an intimate insight into the machinations of the Nazi leadership; his recollection suggested that Hitler and Rudolf Hess considered an armistice with Britain in 1941, and that when Hitler rejected the idea Hess flew to Scotland under his own steam.
Rudolf Misch hitler bodyguard

Rudolf Misch in 1942
06 Sep 2013

Ultimately Misch was in charge of the switchboard in the Berlin “Führerbunker”, where Hitler and members of his inner circle met their grisly ends as the Red Army closed in 1945. The bodyguard was the last person to leave the bunker, and was a key witness to the macabre events dramatised in Der Untergang (“Downfall”, 2006), Oliver Hirschbiegel’s extraordinary film about the end of the Third Reich.

He recalled how, on April 30 1945, Hitler locked himself in his room with his bride-of-a-day Eva Braun: “Everyone was waiting for the shot. We were expecting it. I had just said to the technicians: 'I’m going over [to Hitler’s office], can I fetch you anything?’ And they said no. Then came the shot. Linge [Heinz Linge, Hitler’s valet] took me to one side and we went in. I saw Hitler slumped by the table. I didn’t see any blood on his head. And I saw Eva with her knees drawn up lying next to him on the sofa – wearing a white and blue blouse, with a little collar: just a little thing.”

Misch was also a witness to the grimmest of bunker stories — the murder by Magda Goebbels of her six children. “The children were prepared for their deaths in my work room,” he recalled. “Their mother combed their hair — they were all dressed in white nightshirts — and then she went up with the children. Dr Nauman told me that Dr Ludwig Stumpfegger would give the kids 'candy water’. I realised what was going to happen immediately. I had seen Dr Stumpfegger successfully test poison on Blondi, the Führer’s dog.” Frau Goebbels returned an hour or two later, and without saying a word went to her husband’s room. There, she laid out a game of patience.

Misch then helped to establish a direct line from the Reich Chancellery to Soviet lines, while General Krebs tried to negotiate an armistice. But the Russians demanded unconditional surrender. When the news was brought to the surviving inmates of the bunker, they assembled for a meeting at which Goebbels reminisced about the triumphant early days of Nazism, but made no reference to his family, dead upstairs. “Magda Goebbels just sat there,” Misch recalled, “saying little, head high. She was chain-smoking and sipping champagne.”

All of them knew what was coming. “Goebbels said to me: 'Well, Misch, we knew how to live. Now we know how to die.’ Then he and Frau Goebbels processed arm-in-arm up the stairs to the garden. Soon afterwards somebody called and asked for General Krebs. I connected the line but there was no answer. I went to Krebs’s room and found him and Burgdorf [General Burgdorf, Chief Adjutant] sitting motionless. I first thought they were sleeping.” Both officers were dead.

Though Misch was probably a reliable witness to the facts, he showed none of the remorse or psychological insight that others exhibited when talking about the Nazi era. To Misch, Hitler remained the kind boss who joked with his staff, loved Charlie Chaplin, children and animals and was so considerate towards others that he married Eva Braun the day before their deaths “solely out of consideration for her parents”.

Rochus Misch was born on July 29 1917 in Oppeln, Upper Silesia, in what is now Poland but was then part of Imperial Germany. Orphaned in the First World War, he grew up into a broad-shouldered, though none-too-bright, young man — the ideal recruit for the elite SS Leibstandarte regiment which he joined in 1937.

He served as an Oberscharführer in the Polish campaign of 1939 but was wounded and taken out of active service. While he was recovering Hitler’s office rang his regiment looking for “an honest, reliable fellow” to join the Führer’s team. Misch was recommended.

Misch’s experience sometimes produced tantalising titbits which seemed to run contrary to mainstream historical research. When an interviewer asked him about the sort of thing that upset Hitler, for example, Misch recalled seeing him distressed only once — after his deputy Rudolf Hess flew to England in May 1941: “For three days he was very gloomy.”

“Some days before that we were at Berchtesgaden, Hitler’s residence in the Bavarian Alps,” Misch noted. “He was talking to Hess, when somebody brought in a dispatch. The Führer read it and exclaimed: 'I cannot go there and go down on my knees!’ Hess replied: 'I can, my Führer.’ At the time a German diplomat was meeting the Swedish emissary, Count Bernadotte, in Portugal. The British were very active in Lisbon, so I think there might have been some peace offer from London.” At the time, the Nazi regime claimed Rudolf Hess, Hitler’s deputy in the Nazi Party, had gone mad. But the true purpose of his mission to England remains unclear, and official British documents relating to the time are still classified.

After the Goebbels met their deaths, Misch was finally free to make a break for home. He managed to make his way to the Friedrichstrasse station, where he ran into Heinz Linge. The two men felt their way through a tunnel under the river Spree: “Through a grating, we saw a group of German soldiers. We couldn’t believe it. We decided to go up and join them. That was it. The soldiers were Red Army prisoners.”

Bar a short period when he was brought back to Germany in 1946 as a witness in the Nuremberg trials, Misch spent the next three years in the Lubyanka. Stalin refused to believe that Hitler was dead, and survivors from the bunker were tortured for evidence about the Führer’s imaginary flight. At one point, Misch wrote to the Soviet secret police chief, Beria, asking to be shot, so unbearable was the torture. Instead, he was sent to the gulags, where he spent six years before being released in 1954 under an amnesty agreed by the new Soviet leader Khrushchev.

He returned to his two-storey home in the east Berlin suburb of Rudow and to his wife, Gerda, whom he had married in 1942. There he set up a wallpaper and paint business, which he ran until 1983.

Misch remained an uncomfortable reminder of attitudes which many Germans like to believe have been consigned to the history books. In 2005 he was accused of tainting the memories of Holocaust victims after calling for a plaque in memory of the Goebbels children to be placed next to a new Jewish memorial.

After the release of Der Untergang, he was rather pleased to find himself the object of worldwide media attention, and took every opportunity to show interviewers his snapshots of Hitler and Eva Braun in happier days at Berchtesgaden. “It was a good time with Hitler,” he reminisced. “I enjoyed it and I was proud to work for him.”

Misch’s wife died in 1998. They had a daughter, but she broke off all contact with her father.

Rochus Misch, July 29 1917, died September 05 2013

[Philip]

This is hilarious,to be framed on the wall of infamy along with Clinton's I "mis-poked"...sorry,"mis-spoke"!
"Codger" Cameron has made this most audacious statement on the international stage,that "Britain has invented almost every major international sport",clearly rattled by an alleged (denied) statement by Putin about a "small island that no one listens to".

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/no-pr ... 01963.html

David Cameron launched an impassioned defence of Britain on Friday after this green and pleasant land was snubbed by the Russians as merely a 'small island that no one listens to'.

While there are many things Britain does have to be proud of, Mr Cameron's patriotic response may have been slightly overblown, with the Prime Minister claiming Britain “has invented most of the things worth inventing, including every sport currently played around the world.”

We think he might have forgotten these sports, so take a look through this gallery to see some more exotic games.

The paper lists the foll:
1.Rowing...Egypt and Venice.

2,Archery...Germany..we too have archers galore in our ancient texts.

3.Yanqui Football.

4.Polo.Contestants Iran (2500yrs),India and China.In India was known as "Pulu".

5,Basketball...US

6.Volleyball..created 4 yrs, after basketball....,earlier called "Mintonette"....US

7.Chess.India,refined by the Persians.Carried to Europe by the Moors.

8.Sumo...Japan.

You can add others to the list and send the lot to "Codger" Cameron!

PS:There is definitely one sport that the English invented..Football Hooliganism"!

[anupmisra]

PS:There is definitely one sport that the English invented..Football Hooliganism"!

Or curling, that beloved sport of the Scots and Canadians. BTW: cricket, that gentlemanly game, was invented in Belgium.

[Rony]

The Russians surely know how to tickle the English . Now, Putin's comments make the rightwing Telegraph to come up with 'the best of britain's insults'. We can even vote for the best one. Check out the Indian saying lol but not sure if they are referring to us or to native americans.

England is a nation of shopkeepers.
Napoleon Bonaparte, 1776, to dismiss British preparations for war against their American colonies. France, seizing the opportunity to regain colonies lost to the English, entered the war and helped secure American independence.

England has 42 religions and only two sauces. - Voltaire

Continental people have a sex life; the English have hot-water bottles.- George Mikes, Hungarian writer, How To Be an Alien, 1946

You can't trust people who have such lousy cooking. The only thing they have done for European agriculture is 'mad cow'." - Remarks attributed to French President Jacques Chirac in July 2005, made to the Russian and German leaders Vladimir Putin and Gerhard Schroeder.

A very cold, uninhabitable country with small houses. - Robert Mugabe, president of Zimbabwe, in July 2013

A demon took a monkey to wife – the result by the Grace of God was the English - Indian saying

The German originates it, the Frenchman imitates it, the Englishman exploits it - German saying

If one could only teach the English how to talk and the Irish how to listen, society would be quite civilised - Oscar Wilde, Irish author and playwrite

A contemptible little army - Kaiser Wilhelm II, August 1914

You do not know how crafty they are. You do not know how evil they are. You do not know how they sully everything they touch - Mohammed Mossadegh, prime minister of Iran 1951-1953 - until he was overthrown in a British-sponsored coup.

edited later : with respect to the Indian saying, this american says its a "Hindu saying". So i guss they are referring to us.

[vishvak]

So brutish are exporting guilty conscience. Sau chuhe khaa ke only. More like guilty con science.

[Prem]

The Russians surely know how to tickle the English . Now, Putin's comments make the rightwing Telegraph to come up with 'the best of britain's insults'. We can even vote for the best one. Check out the Indian saying lol but not sure if they are referring to us or to native americans. A demon took a monkey to wife – the result by the Grace of God was the English - Indian saying

England is One of the Two Places on Earth Where Sun Dont Shine.
Wanna Guess Who is Second?
Hint.....Mush

[Philip]

There has never been such a low blow to Britain's prestige and image since Dean Acheson's "Great Britain has lost an empire and has not yet found a role",in the afteryears of the Suez crisis.Yet again it is the Middle East and British foreign policy in the region that has elicited from the Russians the sharpest barb in its backside for over 60+ years.In fact,these days no one uses the adjective "Great" to describe Britain,and believe you me,In my many visits to "north of the border",Scotland,England is a foreign country,with an ever increasing number of Scots wanting like Freddie McMercury to "break free"!
The Scots do not subscribe to English "madness" as some would have it and the coming referendum might go Salmond's way.With down the next barb (you heard it from moi first) to be "England,part of a little island,that even the Scots (and perhaps the Welsh,definitely the Irish!) do not listen to!"

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... orces.html

What next for our 'small island’ and its dwindling Armed Forces?
Our political leaders’ cloying rhetoric masks a confusion about what Britain is fighting for

By Charles Moore
06 Sep 2013

Tony Blair is right. I realise that this is not the most persuasive way to start an article in a modern national newspaper, but it is the columnist’s task to shock, as well as to please.

In his interview with the BBC, which will be broadcast in full on Monday, Mr Blair says that it is not mistrust about weapons of mass destruction that lies at the root of public anxiety about any attack on Syria. Unlike in Iraq, no one seriously disputes that chemical weapons were recently used, and therefore exist. The anxiety, says our former war leader, is about the aftermath. After what happened in Iraq, people want to know not only what you will start off by doing, but what you want to happen next and whether you are ready to achieve it. Bitter experience has seared this point upon Mr Blair’s mind.

Here the military are privately at one with the public. Before David Cameron’s debacle in the House of Commons last week, the top brass were recalled from their August beaches and boats to be briefed on what would be laid before Parliament. They were told about the plan for what President Obama had called “a shot across the bows” of President Assad; so they naturally asked what would happen after that shot had been fired. Answer came there almost none. You can see a similar pattern in the United States, where the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, General Martin Dempsey, is asking the same thing of President Obama, with uncomfortable rigour.

So Mr Obama, like Mr Cameron in the specially assembled Commons last week, is in a strange position now that the G20 leaders have flown tetchily home from St Petersburg. He wants to be seen to be doing something big – anything military is always big – but at the same time, he wants to keep emphasising that it is really quite small. “I’m going to hit those horrid Syrians,” he is saying, “but not very hard or for very long.”

Odder still, he is not really saying what it is all for. Like Mr Cameron, he takes his stand on the wickedness of chemical weapons. Wicked they certainly are, but who can doubt that the allies would not be talking about attacking the Assad regime if they wished it to survive in its present form? Attacks only make sense as part of a policy of regime change, or at least regime modification, yet the leaders feel they have to deny this. Worse, perhaps, they seem to think it immoral to prepare for it: if Assad did fall quickly after any attack, the US would not know what to do next. The message is that this is all about WMD alone. As Mr Cameron put it, before he fell by the wayside: “Full stop. End of story.” Unfortunately, the grammar of warfare is rarely so abrupt.
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Obama in the fight of his presidency to win backing for Syria action
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You can understand the political considerations that drive our leaders into this way of talking. But you need also to see it as if from a government bunker in Damascus. The adversary always looks for clear signals that his opponent is in earnest. Assad and his pals would be reasonable at this point to conclude that they will, more likely than not, be hit, but that they can “outload” their chemical weapons from their static bases, park them in (say) a school playground, and live to murder another day. Indeed, they have probably already done so.

The Syrians do not expect a full, followed-up attempt to knock out their air defence systems. They know that Mr Obama has stayed away from all this for two and a half years. He has never wanted to be a president doing all that reordering the world at the point of a gun. Now he has made the mistake of “telegraphing his punch”. He has signalled weakness.

According to Lt Gen Paul Newton, now Professor of Security and Strategy at Exeter University, once true strategic considerations are sidestepped, we start engaging in “security displacement activity”. In Iraq and Afghanistan, as the problems got too big and our government dared neither push forward nor leave, we tried to comfort ourselves with smaller problems which looked manageable, but weren’t – “Basra-shire, Helmand-shire”. Even the US surge in Afghanistan was a cover for America’s first signals that it was pulling out. The Taliban were not fooled.

So the British fiasco over Syria is emerging as a small, but significant event in a trend in which the West feels weaker and its voters less trusting of their leaders. There may be an American fiasco coming too. Despite our self-humiliation, we may well be lucky that it was not over something bigger.

But it is still a pity. Tony Blair is right – again – when he says that the fall of Assad would be “long, bloody, difficult and expensive”, but that the alternative would be “long, bloody, difficult, expensive – and worse”. It would be better if the Western allies, led by America, had a strategy about this. The cliché rolls out (sometimes from Americans) that “America cannot be the world’s policeman”. Perhaps it can’t, but no one else can, without American help, and an unpoliced globe is not a happy place.

It is astonishing that the Muslim world is undergoing such turmoil and yet there is still no worked-out European view about it, political or military. The Middle East and North Africa constitute, for European powers, what the Russians call the “near abroad”. America is now happily bouncing along on shale gas and will soon be swimming in shale oil. Perhaps it subliminally senses that the Arab world matters less to it than in the past. For our continent, though, that world is non-discretionary, yet we still do not know what we think about it.

What happens next back here, in what one of President Putin’s aides seems to have called “just a small island” to which no one pays attention? In 1980, Britain spent less than twice as much on pensions and welfare as on defence. Today, it spends over six times more. That tells you something about our demographics, and our national will (lack of).

If you ask our Government, it will be full of praise for our Armed Forces. Indeed, the rhetoric about our wonderful boys and girls is positively cloying. The reality, however, is that the defence budget has been subjected to a culture war (partially, it must be said, justified) about the mismanagement of procurement. Yet at the same time, international aid, almost unquestioned in its extravagance, is ring-fenced and growing.

Force numbers are being sharply reduced. The plans for Full Force 2020 make much of the fact that the Reserve (formerly the TA) will grow by more than 10,000 and integrate much better with the regular army. This is a good idea, if employers can be persuaded and, in the case of the smaller ones, paid, to put up with it. But it should not obscure the fact that the regulars are losing a fifth of their strength.

Even when you are making people redundant, of course, you have to recruit new young people. Apparently, in the ranks, it is not going well. Potential recruits do not lack martial spirit, but they also study the Government’s signals: does it mean what it says? “We don’t want to fight, but by Jingo if we do,/ We’ve got the ships, we’ve got the men, we’ve got the money too”, goes the old song. Now we haven’t, so ministers need to tell us all, before the election, how we can still fight, and what for.

[Philip]

More on the Hess mystery.As I earlier presciently posted a day ago,the man in Spandau was allegedly not Hess but a double who conveniently couldn't remember anything.he was allegedly murdered not because he would spill secrets about the war,but that most secret of all,that he was NOT Hess! It is why he was never released.Two other controversial deaths have been also put down to state "hits",that of Princess Diana,and that of Iraq WMD expert Dr.Kelly,whose body was found after he mysteriously disappeared,a so-called suicide.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/cr ... 02603.html

Adolf Hitler's Nazi deputy Rudolf Hess ‘murdered by British agents’ to stop him spilling wartime secrets
Surgeon claims Hess was killed on British orders to preserve wartime secrets

Cahal Milmo
Chief Reporter

Friday 06 September 2013

Scotland Yard was given the names of British agents who allegedly murdered the Nazi Rudolf Hess in the infamous Spandau Prison but was advised by prosecutors not to pursue its investigations, according to a newly-released police report.

Written two years after Hess’s death in 1987, the classified document outlines a highly-sensitive inquiry into the claims of a British surgeon who had once treated Adolf Hitler’s deputy that, rather than taking his own life, the elderly Nazi was killed on British orders to preserve wartime secrets.

Released under the Freedom of Information Act, the partially-redacted report by Detective Chief Superintendent Howard Jones revealed that the surgeon - Hugh Thomas - had supplied him with the names of two suspects provided by a “government employee” responsible for training secret agents.

Withheld for nearly 25 years, the report has been released by the Yard’s counter-terrorism command following consultation with “other Government and foreign government departments”.

The death of Hess in Berlin at the age of 93 after he apparently hung himself with a wire flex in a summer house in the grounds of Spandau has long been controversial with claims that he was too infirm to commit suicide and a farewell note to his family had in fact been written 20 years earlier.

The Yard was called in in 1989 after Mr Thomas, an eminent former military surgeon previously based in Spandau, claimed in a book that “Hess” was in fact an impostor sent by the Nazis to Britain in 1941 and his murder was carried out by two British assassins disguised as American serviceman.

In his subsequent 11-page report, Mr Jones said the surgeon had “confidentially imparted” the names of two alleged suspects passed to him by an informant who was a former member of the SAS and had since taken on a role “training people for undercover or spying operations”.

Prior to his death, speculation had been growing that Hess might be released because a long-standing veto by the Soviet Union, which for decades had insisted on a severe regime for Hess, including forcing him to wash his hands in toilet bowl, might be reversed by Mikhail Gorbachev.

Mr Jones wrote: “[Mr Thomas] had received information that two assassins had been ordered on behalf of the British Government to kill Hess in order that he should not be released and free to expose secrets concerning the plot to overthrow the Churchill government.”

The officer found there was not “much substance” to Mr Thomas’s claims of murder but suggested that efforts should be made to trace and interview the alleged killers along with other witnesses to ensure the matter could be “comprehensively adjudged” to have been fully investigated.

It is not known if the two suspects were tracked down after the report was submitted to the Crown Prosecution Service in May 1989.

But within six months the investigation was declared closed after the then Director of Public of Prosecutions, Sir Allan Green QC, advised that further inquiries were not necessary.

In November 1989, Sir Nicholas Lyell, the solicitor general, told Parliament: “The inquiries carried out by Detective Chief Superintendent Jones have produced no cogent evidence to suggest that Rudolf Hess was murdered; nor, on the view of the Director of Public Prosecutions, is there any basis for further investigation.”

The unannounced arrival of Hess in Britain was one of the strangest incidents of the Second World War and remains the subject of extensive debate about its motivation, including whether it was an ill-judged attempt to unseat Winston Churchill by enlisting aristocrats with Nazi sympathies.

After flying solo to Scotland in 1941, Hitler’s deputy fuhrer parachuted to the ground and, after being taken into custody at pitchfork-point by an astonished ploughman, declared his intention to negotiate a peace with Britain to form an alliance against Stalin’s Soviet Union.

Hess was sentenced to life imprisonment as a war criminal at the Nuremberg Trials and incarcerated in Spandau along with other prominent Nazis including Albert Speer. From 1966 onwards, Hitler’s deputy - whose Allied guards were required to only address him as Prisoner Seven - was the sole inmate in the 600-cell prison.

Further doubt was claimed to have been cast last year on the circumstances of Hess’s suicide when photographs emerged of the summer house where he died, showing the short distance - some 5ft - between the cord from which he was found hanging and the floor.

His son, Wolf, had previously insisted that the height was insufficient for his father, crippled by arthritis, to hang himself and added to post mortem examination evidence suggesting a full noose had been placed around his neck.

In his report, Mr Jones dismissed such concerns, saying expert advice showed Hess’s injuries were consistent with an “unusual hanging situation”.

[svinayak]

Hess Death
This is the most important


After flying solo to Scotland in 1941, Hitler’s deputy fuhrer parachuted to the ground and, after being taken into custody at pitchfork-point by an astonished ploughman, declared his intention to negotiate a peace with Britain to form an alliance against Stalin’s Soviet Union.


The Germans were led to believe that attacking Soviet Union will lead to support from UK and Germans would prevail against Soviet Union.
Something similar is happening in Asia with Pa kistan being led to believe in many things.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudolf_Hess

[Vayutuvan]

> with the word rook thought to have derived from the Persian rukh, meaning chariot.
The Persian rukh - with high probability, IMHO - might have been derived from Sanskrit word raTh.

[Rahul M]

^^^ context ?

[Vayutuvan]

Rahul M ji, the article posted by Philip sir (on UK "inventing all good things in life" like sports). I am sure not even he would dare to include British cooking though.

I had such a wonderful! experience of British food in P' circle and on BA flights it is just incredible I am alive to tell the stories here. I ascribe it to dark beers, scotches, Bombay Sapphire "shaken not stirred" martinis and Rolls-Royce Taxis.

[Jarita]

I am sure this has been mentioned before

Pakistan ISI must have learnt from their UK coaches

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... ology.html

au Mau fighters raped, castrated and beaten in Kenya's uprising against Britain get £14million compensation but no apology

Foreign Secretary William Hague says government 'understands' pain
Negotiations began after a court ruling in favour of three Kenyans
They suffered castration, rape and beatings while detained in 1950s
Torture took place during so-called Kenyan 'Emergency' of 1952-60


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... z2eGyAS51e
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

[Philip]

Matri,this reminds me of a true old joke told at Common Market summits.The nations that joined the ECM had hoped for French cooking,German efficiency,British diplomacy and Italian sex.But what they got instead was British cooking,Italian efficiency,French diplomacy and German sex!

[Philip]

The damage has already been done and no amount of the "Queen's asses or men can out the Humpty Dumpty "special-relationship" together again".The truth of the matter is that the British people do not want to go to war to support American interests.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/s ... ionship-uk

Obama envoy insists special relationship with UK intact
Matthew Barzun describes 'rush to declare this relationship dead, damaged, or diminished' as lacking in perspective


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/ho ... 03469.html

Church of England has £10m invested in arms firm

On eve of protests at London arms fair, C of E is accused of failing to live up to the 'spirit' of its own investment policy

The Church of England has invested up to £10m in one of the world's major arms firms, which supplies unmanned drones and jets to conflicts around the world. The discovery, on the eve of what is set to be the biggest day of protests against DSEi – the UK's leading arms fair – in Docklands, London, tomorrow, has led worshippers to accuse church leaders of profiting from conflict.

The Church Commissioners and Church of England Pensions Board are both shareholders in General Electric (GE), with shareholdings amounting to just under £10m. Yesterday, the Church defended the investment, claiming less than 3 per cent of GE's business was based in arms sales.

But the firm, along with its key subsidiary General Aviation, is a leading supplier of "integrated systems and technologies" for combat aircraft, military transport, helicopters, land vehicles and unmanned aerial vehicles – better known as drones.

It is the 20th-highest-ranking firm in the world when it comes to defence sales, which accounted for almost 3 per cent of its total revenue last year – an estimated £4bn.

GE also makes the F101 aircraft, which took part in combat in Afghanistan and Iraq. Designed as a "strategic nuclear bomber", it was modified to carry a "diverse range of conventional weapons", according to GE's website.

While the Church of England is not breaching its own rules by investing in the firm – investments in companies that derive less than 10 per cent of turnover from strategic military sales are allowed – some church members reacted angrily to the news.

Keith Hebden, an Anglican priest who was arrested earlier this year for breaking into RAF Waddington – from where drones used in Afghanistan are remotely controlled – said the Church of England's policy was wrong. He explained: "We're going to end up with problems. This means we have a stake in wanting there to be war."

Symon Hill, co-founder of the anti-cuts campaign group Christianity Uncut, said: "Investments in GE conform to the letter but not the spirit of the Church of England's investment policy."

A Church spokeswoman pointed out that GE produces dishwashers, lighting, aircraft engines and power plants. She added: "Some of GE's engines and other products are supplied for military planes, boats and land vehicles. Our research provider estimates that less than 3 per cent of GE's turnover comes from strategic military supplies."

The Campaign Against Arms Trade added: "GE is undoubtedly an arms company – why else would it be exhibiting its wares at one of the world's largest arms fairs? If the Church is committed to following an ethical investment policy, it should drop the GE shares from its portfolio and invest it in companies producing more ethical and beneficial products, including renewable energy technologies."

Today's revelations come months after the Church admitted it invested in funds that provided money for the Wonga payday loans company. The Archbishop of Canterbury, Justin Welby, had previously said he would try to force the firm out of business by helping credit unions compete with it. He wanted the Church's investment rules to be reviewed following the row.

[Lisa]

More on the Hess mystery.As I earlier presciently posted a day ago,the man in Spandau was allegedly not Hess but a double who conveniently couldn't remember anything.he was allegedly murdered not because he would spill secrets about the war,but that most secret of all,that he was NOT Hess! It is why he was never released.Two other controversial deaths have been also put down to state "hits",that of Princess Diana,and that of Iraq WMD expert Dr.Kelly,whose body was found after he mysteriously disappeared,a so-called suicide.

Philip,

In view of your belief of the articles you have reproduced here regarding
Rudolf Hess, out of curiosity, your opinion,

1. Why did none of Rudolf Hess's colleagues at the Nuremberg trials ever
suspect the individual was a fake?

2. Why did the Russians never voice any suspicions of who Hess really
was?

3. Why did the British authorities wait until he was 93 to kill a fake, some
46 years after his 'arrest'?

4. Where do you suppose the British found a completely unattached
German speaking double in the middle of the Second World War and more
to the point an individual who would volunteer to spend the rest of his life
incarcerated or for that matter risk hanging?

5. Quite a feet to have fooled the Hess family for 46 years, wouldn't you
agree? They could not even tell a fake from their own father and his wife
her own husband?

Thank you,

[anupmisra]

Tommy Robinson: EDL Leader Held At March for protesting in his own country.

English Defence League leader Tommy Robinson has been arrested on a controversial march that was prevented from going through the centre of one of Britain's biggest Muslim communities.

The organisation had wanted to hold the rally in an area in Tower Hamlets, east London, which it says is "subject to Sharia law".

Offences ranged from possession of a pointed blade, possession of a firework, breach of public order, criminal damage and violent disorder.

Among those in custody is a 15-year-old boy who was arrested for going equipped, Scotland Yard said.

"going equipped". A couple of comments:

Why not ARREST Anjem Chowdry and the mullahs and imams of hate for incitement!!! At least the EDL people NEVER wrapped explosives around themselves or hacked a muslim to death on the streets of London !!! What a breathtakingly Spineless and gutless government and stupid system that muslms are exploiting as they wish!!

Don't come to Bradford then or most of the celebrants at muslim weddings will be arrested for possession of a firework.

[vishvak]

Littil Pakistan in ukstan where sharia rules? Tower hamlets East London must be very secular place for which sharia rule is not questioned by police enthusiastic to enforce rule of law.

[Philip]

I wonder when this is going to happen in India!

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... es-charges

Nigel Evans to be charged with sexual offences
Commons deputy speaker resigns from role after CPS announces charges of sexual assault, indecent assault and rape
Ben Quinn
The Guardian, Tuesday 10 September 2013

Nigel Evans has resigned as a House of Commons deputy speaker after the director of public prosecutions announced that the Conservative MP would be charged with sex offences against seven men.

The 55-year-old politician, who denies all of the allegations and pledged on Tuesday night to continue working as an MP from the backbenches, is accused of two counts of indecent assault, five counts of sexual assault and one rape count.

Evans, who represents the Ribble Valley constituency in Lancashire, answered bail on Tuesday having previously been arrested in May and June. He was rearrested and interviewed by detectives throughout the day before being charged.

Speaking outside Preston police station, Evans said: "May I reassure everyone at this time that I will robustly defend my innocence.

"I have today answered bail following complaints I say were incredulous. Whilst I am saddened this case has not been closed today, I am certain of two things: firstly that I am innocent, and secondly that my innocence will be demonstrated."

Evans confirmed that he would be resigning from his deputy speaker role, having informed his fellow deputy speakers, Lindsay Hoyle and Dawn Primarolo, as well as his association chairman and staff.

He added: "I appreciate this case will create a great deal of media interest but after today I will not be making any further comment until the case concludes."

The indecent assaults are alleged to have been committed between 1 January 2002 and 1 January 2004; the sexual assaults between 1 January 2009 and 1 April 2013, and the rape between 29 March and 1 April 2013. He will appear before magistrates in Preston on 18 September.

Keir Starmer QC, the director of public prosecutions, said on Tuesday night: "Following an investigation by Lancashire police, the Crown Prosecution Service has received a file of evidence in the case of Mr Nigel Evans MP which concerns allegations of a sexual nature.

"After careful consideration, we have concluded that there is sufficient evidence and that it is in the public interest to prosecute Mr Evans.

"Lancashire constabulary has therefore been authorised to charge two counts of indecent assault, five counts of sexual assault and one count of rape relating to a total of seven alleged victims.

"The decision in this case was taken by Joanne Cunliffe, an experienced specialist rape prosecutor, in consultation with John Dilworth, head of the CPS north-west complex casework unit, and in consultation with an external and highly experienced criminal QC.

"I have also been consulted on this case. The decision has been taken in accordance with the Code for Crown Prosecutors and the CPS legal guidance on rape and sexual offences."

In all of the cases, for which Evans was arrested in May and June, the complainants were men who were in their 20s at the time of the alleged offences.

Evans was first elected to parliament in 1992, regaining Ribble Valley from the Liberal Democrats at the general election in that year.

[Philip]

Here's the most plausible Hess conspiracy theory.If you've read the many books on the Hess mystery/conspiracy,you will find that this one fits the bill best,barring the extra erroneous titbit that the Duke of Kent was also bumped off.

As for doubles,the British were experts.Remember the book,"I was Monty's double" ? The British used several deception tricks during the war to confuse and mislead the Germans about the landings in Sicily,fooling them into believing that they would happen in Sardinia,and the greatest deception of all,the D-Day Normandy landings ,the Germans sold the tale that they would be at Calais. A double of Martin Borman was also allegedly conjured up to live in Britain,as a decoy, in case it leaked out that he had escaped-actually sent to Argentina in the deal where he handed over much of the Nazi loot hidden in Swiss banks in return for his freedom.
The use of doubles has been a favourite ruse by many nations in history.The Israelis used a double of Idi Amin during the Entebbe raid.

http://www.eyespymag.com/intv.html

DOUBLE STANDARDS

WHAT REALLY HAPPENED TO RUDOLF HESS?

Numerous books have been written about the Second World War; and the many and varied claims and counter-claims concerning Hitler’s deputy, Rudolf Hess, are legendary. However, it is fair to say that no-one has successfully penetrated the inner sanctum of official secrecy that surrounds the Hess affair - until now, that is.

According to the authors of Double Standards: The Rudolf Hess Cover-Up, for sixty years an unprecedented conspiracy has existed at the highest levels of the British Establishment to prevent the truth about Rudolf Hess and his fateful flight to Scotland in May 1941 from surfacing into the public domain.

Long dismissed as the misguided attempt of a madman to make contact with a non-existent British peace party, Hess’s mission - as Double Standards asserts convincingly - was one of the pivotal events of the twentieth century. And the Establishment had very good reasons for covering up the truth: for the Establishment was the peace party that Hess had come to meet!

Even more controversial, Double Standards reveals that members of the Royal Family itself - whose involvement in the Hess affair has been conveniently airbrushed out of history - were at the heart of this group.a
Exposing the wartime propaganda that still masquerades as fact, and based on entirely new material from eyewitnesses, hitherto inaccessible archives and intelligence sources, Double Standards reveals that:

(1) Despite official denials Hess flew to Britain with Hitler’s full knowledge;

(2) There was a substantial peace party in Britain in 1941, which included most of the aristocracy - and the Royal Family;

(3) The King’s brother, the Duke of Kent, was actively involved in Hess’s peace mission;

(4) There is substantial evidence that the prisoner who died in Spandau prison was not the real Rudolf Hess;

(5) The fate of the real Deputy Fuhrer was inextricably linked with that of the Duke of Kent - Double Standards finally presents a solution to the long-acknowledged mystery of the Duke’s death in 1942;

(6) Winston Churchill guilefully used Hess to influence Hitler and change Britain’s fortunes in the War.
But that is not all - as co-authors Lynn Picknett and Clive Prince make abundantly clear.

LP: The official story behind Rudlof Hess’s flight to Britain in 1941 is that he was a lone madman who had stolen a plane and flown to Scotland with the wild idea of contacting a non-existent peace party spearheaded by the Duke of Hamilton - who was totally innocent of course and knew nothing about it - in an attempt to broker a peace deal and end the War. But from there, Hess was arrested and following the end of the War was tried at Nuremberg and spent the rest of his life in Spandau Prison. The story was that Hitler knew nothing of it either and he said so and also said that Hess was suffering from a mental illness and had been for some time. And Churchill basically stated that the only time that he ever agreed with Hitler was on that story! Now, there are some very interesting things about this story that we uncovered for our book that show the official line wasn’t anywhere near the truth and that Hitler had knowledge of what was going on, that Hess had links with the Duke of Kent, that both of them may have been killed, that the Hess put on trial at Nuremberg wasn’t the real Hess and the impostor or double was the man who died at Spandau. Hess’s wife said that Hess had left a letter to be given to the Fuhrer and it said effectively, “If the mission fails you can always say I was mad.” Also, after the mission effectively failed, the Gestapo interrogated Hess’s staff; and the reports - which we’ve seen - make it clear that Hitler knew. Hess’s son, Wolf Hess, tells how almost immediately before the flight Hitler and Hess had this enormous row for about three hours - Hess was one of the few people who could argue with Hitler and get away with it. But then it went quiet in the room and when they came out, Hitler had his arm around Hess and he said: “You know Hess, you always were and are one of the most stubborn men,” and as Wolf Hess says: “I don’t think they were talking about the weather.”

EYE SPY!: So what does your research suggest the truth behind the flight was?

LP: It wasn’t altruism, obviously. But there was a very practical reason: the Nazis wanted to be assured that they could open the Eastern Front and attack Russia without having to watch their backs with Britain. But actually it would have suited us to because not only would we have got a respite from the War - which was going badly for us at the time - but Russia and the Nazis would have battled it out between them and that was fine with us as they would have weakened each other. And after the War they would both have been so weak that there would have been no Cold War and that would almost certainly have worked to our benefit.

EYE SPY!: What evidence exists to support the notion that the man who died in Spandau Prison wasn’t Rudolf Hess?

LP: Alan Dulles, who became the head of the CIA, was of the opinion that the man who was condemned to life imprisonment at Nuremberg, was not the real Rudolf Hess - as was President Roosevelt himself. And in the 1970s, a British surgeon and ballistics expert, Dr. Hugh Thomas, actually had chance to physically examine the old man in Spandau. He knew that the real Hess had been wounded by a bullet in the First World War; so he looked on the old man’s body for signs of the wound but couldn’t find it. Now we’re not talking about someone who simply cast an eye over the man without knowing what he was looking for. Dr. Hugh Thomas, I must stress, is a surgeon and a ballistics expert who has been used in trials such as Bloody Sunday, so he really knows what he’s talking about. Also, there are circumstantial things, if you like. The man at Nuremberg refused to see his family and in fact he also refused to see anyone other than his lawyer for over twenty years - which is astonishing considering that he’d been locked up as you would think he would want to see them. Also, at Nuremberg the man had very, very convenient amnesia. He behaved very oddly at Nuremberg, he failed to recognise people that had worked very close with the real Hess. And at times he also failed to recognise colleagues in the Nazi hierarchy. And they seemed to think there was something strange about him especially Hermann Goring, a co-defendant at the trial. He was quite amused when someone was talking to him about Hess. This isn’t an exact quote, but Goring said: “Hess? Which Hess? The Hess you have here? Our Hess? Your Hess?” It was that kind of exchange. The man had also agreed to give evidence on behalf of one of the co-defendants but on the day claimed not to remember anything. In the book too we reproduce dental records of Rudolf Hess and of the old man who died at Spandau and they are not of the same man. We took them to a consultant dentist in this country and asked if they were from the same person and his reply was “Absolutely not”. The other thing I must point out, which is the clincher, when Dr Hugh Thomas came up with the revelation that the old man was a double, the British Government tied itself in knots trying to prove that this was Rudolf Hess - and they couldn’t do it.

EYE SPY!: And do you have any idea who the double may have been?

LP: All we know is that he was German and presumably a Nazi. He might have been interned in Britain - or he might have been sent over after the event. We don’t know who the double was but we did learn that when Hess arrived, he asked for by name two prisoners - two German internees, Dr Eduard Semelbauer and Kurt Maass. He knew where they were held and, interestingly, these two had already been moved from their respective internment camps - which suggests someone here knew about the flight and the plans - to a place near Glasgow. Now we don’t really know why he wanted them - he said it was to interpret for him but he spoke very good English! But we did discover that they were later sent to a camp on the Isle of Man for, quote, “Non-returnable Nazis”, which is a rather sinister phrase, I think! But it’s possible that one of them became the double as part of Churchill’s plot to deflect attention away from the real Rudolf Hess. For example, when Hess was first imprisoned in England it was at Aldershot and the place was a fortress; but then all of a sudden after a few months “Hess” was moved amid virtual fanfare to Abergavenny and the staff lined up to meet him and it was in the newspapers. So it seems that this was really a case of drawing attention to the double. Also there is evidence that the double was seen to meet Churchill in a place opposite Windsor Castle. The importance was to imply to the peace party and thereby to the Germans that Churchill was talking to Hess, even though in fact he wasn’t and was against the peace plan. So Churchill was playing a very, very cunning game.

EYE SPY!: And why was the ruse continued after the War?

LP: Well, Hess, or whoever the old man in Spandau was, became the focus for the Cold War; and as far as the Russians were concerned, the focus for their hatred of the Nazi regime. There was no way that the British were going to announce that “By the way, he’s not really Hess”! He was very useful. And one reason why he was looked after during the Cold War was because as long as he was alive Spandau would be there. And as long as Spandau was there, it gave the four victorious powers a reason to continue to occupy Berlin. It literally came down to this one man in the end.

EYE SPY!: You mention in the book the links between Hess and the Duke of Kent. What is the story there?

LP: The Duke of Kent was the father of the present Duke of Kent and the youngest brother of King George VI. It’s interesting that although he was such an amazing character (he was the first member of the Royal Family to die in active service in over five hundred years) very few people today are aware of who he was. He was very glamorous; a slightly camp, James Bond-like character in a way and he’d acted as political advisor for three kings. So at the time of his death in 1942 Kent was acting as political advisor for George VI. He had been involved in peace moves before the War and he was married to Princess Marina of Greece who was very anti-Bolshevik. It wasn’t so much that he was pro-Nazi or sucking up to Hitler - he was simply pro-peace. He thought that anything was better than going to war again - as did George V. Had there been a deal with Germany the peace party would have insisted that Hitler be removed. And as we understand it from the German side, they would have wanted Churchill removed before they started to negotiate.

EYE SPY!: And how does the Duke of Kent’s death tie in with Hess?

LP: The story is that Hess came over on a peace mission in May 1941 with peace proposals which Churchill does not show the War Cabinet and Hess is locked up - despite the fact that he’s a peace envoy. Now in 1942, we know that there were definitely two Hess’s held in Abergavenny, Wales. One was a decoy and one was the real one - to try and prevent rescue attempts or assassinations. In fact, most notable figures have doubles - like, for example, Montgomery. But later in the summer of 1942, one of the Hess’s had disappeared. Now, what had happened, we discovered, was that the real Hess had been secretly taken up to Scotland where he was kept on the shores of Loch More. Now we had been researching this, as had Stephen Prior; but at the same time our historical researcher, Robert Brydon, had been researching the death of the Duke of Kent and had masses of material and he and Stephen discovered an explosive connection between the two. The Duke of Kent had set off in August 1942 on, allegedly, a morale-boosting trip to Iceland and his Sunderland flying boat had crashed in the Scottish hills and everyone except one member of the crew had died, including the Duke of Kent. The plane crashed approximately two miles from where Hess was kept but there’s something else too: the flying time of the plane had an extra half hour unaccounted for. Then from our investigations, we were able to determine that there was an extra person on board the plane! Had they used the extra half an hour to put down on Loch More to pick somebody up who then died in the crash? We believe - and it does look like - the real Rudolf Hess died with the Duke of Kent in 1942.

EYE SPY!: And why was Hess on the plane?

LP: Our research suggests that they were not heading for Iceland but were in fact en-route to Sweden to broker a peace deal. Things were going badly wrong at the time and it looked like we would lose the War and Kent was fanatically pro-peace and so, in his own way, was Rudolf Hess. There are other reasons to link them too. One thing that is often over-looked is that before the War both Kent and Hess were aviation aces. In those days there was a kind of loose-Freemasonry, if you like, among flyers and a kind of chivalry between them. And there is evidence that George VI had given safe passage to Hess but that Churchill got to him first and locked him up. So under the circumstances, one of these knights of the air perhaps thought it incumbent on him to help another knight of the air to escape to safety - a chivalric element to it perhaps.

EYE SPY!: If this was an attempt at a peace deal and there were those within the British Government who didn’t want this to come about such as Churchill, is there anything sinister to the air-crash that killed Kent and possibly Hess?

LP: That’s one of the biggest questions! It does look very, very coincidental. The plane just exploded and the wreckage was quickly taken away by teams of people who suddenly appeared. Now often in similar circumstances in the Highlands the bodies were removed but the wreckage was left there because it was seen as too difficult a job. But in this crash every last piece was removed. And we do point out that about a year later, Kent’s great friend and ally, General Wladyslaw Sikorski, the leader of the Free Polish forces and who was based in Scotland died in a similar crash. And there is evidence that General de Gaulle was almost the subject of a similar assassination while preparing for a flight to Glasgow from Hendon. At the time it was thought that this might have been the work of Nazi infiltrators but the evidence now points towards the Special Operations Executive working on the orders of Churchill and of course it failed. And this was all to prevent the brokering of a peace deal.

EYE SPY!: You talk in the book about how Churchill used Hess to influence Hitler and change Britain’s fortunes in the War. Can you expand on that?

CP: First of all, Churchill was in a very, very insecure position politically in May 1941. In fact, three days before Hess arrived, there had been a vote of no-confidence in Churchill. He didn’t have the support of the aristocracy or the support of MI6 and the King. But the Hess affair basically gave Churchill the opportunity to blackmail his opponents who were involved with the Hess flight into supporting him. It made his position secure and he made veiled hints and threats in the House of Commons where he would drop Hess’s name in. It was like “Back me or I’ll tell the full story.” He also used the Hess flight to ensure that Hitler went ahead with his attack on Russia six weeks after Hess arrived. He also used it to worry the Americans that a deal was about to be done and to get Roosevelt to increase his support and ensure that the great Triple Alliance happened.
Churchill also fooled Hitler into thinking that the British Government was negotiating with Hess. It’s very clear that when he was held at Aldershot, Hess was under the impression that he was negotiating with representatives of the Government. Churchill had his own network in the intelligence services and he was well aware of what was going on with bringing Hess over.

EYE SPY!: You talk in the book about new files surfacing on this whole controversy. Where did these come from?

CP: The two main new files that we found and used in the book and that haven’t been seen before were, firstly, the archives of the Duke of Hamilton who was involved in the Hess affair and that are kept at the Scottish Office. And although some had been available to other researchers, we were able to get almost unrestricted access that most previous researchers hadn’t really had before. The other thing that hadn’t really seen the light of day before - and this relates more to the death of Hess or whoever the prisoner in Spandau was in 1987 - were the administration records from prison. Now, the British authorities said that all the records for the prison should be destroyed - and they were. But before that the Russians insisted that they make a microfilm record of everything and the Russians then gave microfilm copies to the other three powers. And we managed to get hold of one of the copies that contains a lot of interesting material relating to Hess’s death and what was going on. The files at the Public Record Office that were held by MI5 and released in 1999 fill in some of the holes - one MI5 file in particular which blows the lid on the accepted story of the flight refers to Hess’s request for access to the two German internees Semelbauer and Maass. Maass was the more interesting one because he was a member of the Nazi party. In the PRO files we found a lot of background on him and contacted the Red Cross in Geneva and found that it was three days before Hess’s arrival that they were transferred out to the camp near Glasgow. Yet no-one is supposed to know he’s arriving! In a margin note in one of the PRO files written by the head civil servant in the Foreign Office, he had been told that Maass had been released! So whoever transferred these people out of the internment camps, there was a lot of skull-duggery going on. In fact, it was almost like whoever got them out of the camps did it without the official knowledge of the Government. We’re certain that MI6 was totally involved in the Hess affair - they weren’t luring him over: they were inviting him over. This was because MI6 were supportive of the idea of ending the War with Germany. MI6 saw the real enemy as being Russia. Sir Stuart Menzies - the head of MI6 - advised Churchill to stay out of things and let the Nazis and the Russians get on with it and which ever one wins to pick a fight with them afterwards! So up until the middle of 1941 MI6’s primary thing was to get Britain out of the War. Now the fact that the Foreign Office didn’t know what was going on with Maass and Semelbauer suggests to us it was the peace group that got them out. Presumably, if everything had gone to plan and Hess hadn’t been captured, these two guys would have acted as secretaries for Hess at the peace talks, Hess would then have flown back to Germany and Maass and Semelbauer would have been returned to their camps. As it was, the whole thing went very messy but MI6 wanted this plan to succeed.

EYE SPY!: Do you think that there are factions of the Intelligence community and the Establishment that want this story to come out?

CP: Well, Sir Maurice Oldfield, a former head of MI6, is known to have essentially stolen one of the files on Hess to stop it being destroyed and gave it to certain historians and it’s now in safe-keeping in Holland. So it shows that he was unhappy with the fact that a lot of these files were being destroyed to stop them being released.

EYE SPY!: Bearing in mind the sensitive nature of the story, did you find yourselves thwarted in anyway?

LP: Let’s put it this way: it would have been very surprising if we weren’t being watched: authors who had written only a fraction of what we uncovered had found their paths strewn with obstacles. But having said that, of course, we now have a Labour Government and it was always the Conservatives who were very anti documents leaking out; and now there appears to be a greater openness. But, in saying that, on a couple of occasions manuscripts went astray in the post for suspiciously long periods of time and turned up having obviously been opened. This was the whole typescript that vanished for 10 days and it only had to travel across London! But the book came out! And Rhodri Morgan, the First Minister for Wales, who had always been intrigued by the Hess mystery, was prompted by the launch of the book to say on television that he believed that the British had Hess bumped off in Spandau and I don’t think that would have happened under the old regime. So there is a new openness up to a point!

EYE SPY!: How do you feel now having completed the book and looking back on things?

LP: Writing, researching and being involved in this story has really opened my eyes - not so much about skull-duggery in high places because we’ve learned to expect that - but because of the way in which Churchill got away with this and was feted for it. And yes, okay, Hess was a Nazi - the Deputy Fuhrer - but he came over that night on his own, unarmed, under virtually a white flag and was then locked up for the rest of his life - however long or short that was. My father was a straight-down-the-line regimental sergeant major and I was brought up to start off with a kind of simple patriotism. Obviously as I got older things changed and they have certainly changed with this. They really have!

Double Standards: The Rudolf Hess Cover-up by Lynn Picknett, Clive Prince & Stephen Prior (with additional research by Robert Brydon) is available from the Eye Spy! shop. £20.00 plus £3.50 p & p. Ref: ES/512. eyespymag.com shop
A Quality Hardback from Little, Brown and Company.http://www.eyespymag.com/intv.html

[Philip]

Unseen Hess files on WWII flight up for auction.The Hess who landed in Britain was the genuine article,the man in Spandau the fake.

http://www.thelocal.de/national/20130909-51827.html

Published: 9 Sep 2013

The personal files of Rudolf Hess – Hitler’s right-hand man who flew to Britain in 1941 to attempt to end the war with a peace treaty – are going up for auction in the US. They could shed light on one of World War II's more mysterious events.

Valued at $750,000, the documents are described by American auctioneers Alexander Historical Auctions as “perhaps the most important wartime archive to ever be offered for private sale.”

They include Hess’s personal notes, copies of letters, and transcripts of interviews surrounding his long-debated flight in May 1941 to Scotland to apparently negotiate a separate peace with Britain.

The file includes what is believed to be the handwritten proposal of peace terms Hess handed to former British foreign secretary Lord Simon on the day of their meeting.

Germany was on the verge of invading Russia when Hess decided that Britain could be persuaded to make peace with Germany. But the negotiations failed and Hess was imprisoned for the rest of the war in Britain. He was also cut off by the Nazis at home.

Theories have surrounded the incident since the war. Popular ones include that Hess was sent with Hitler’s knowledge, while others believe it was a set-up by British intelligence to capture Hitler’s deputy.

Meanwhile, Britain has sealed its file about what happened during the first month of Hess’s crash landing in Scotland until 2017.

CLICK HERE for a gallery of the Hess documents

Alexander Historical Auctions told The Local it obtained the documents through one of their consignor’s in Europe. They said that around 20 years ago the consignor received an anonymous telephone call from a man familiar with his work. He was told to go to a location the following day, where Hess’s files would be left for him with the hope that it would be of use in his projects.

Andreas Kornfeld from Alexander Historical Auctions said: “The documents disappeared for years. We assume he [Hess] took them to Nuremberg for the trials. They are hand-written and he did sign it. There have always been assumptions about what happened and this is his file which he prepared.”

Some speculate that the former head of the British Secret Service MI6, Sir Maurice Oldfield, sought to prevent the truth about Hess’ British captivity coming out leading to the files being sealed.

'Documents are genuine'

The auction house said Germany’s Bundesarchiv had performed a “forensic analysis” of one of the documents in the file. They said: “The results showed that the document is an original document and definitely not spurious.”

Much of the file also remains unknown to the public, the auction house said, adding that a study of the notes would help answer “many of the most perplexing questions that evolved from World War II.”

In the file Hess is convinced that: “The offer by the Führer is genuine…the British cannot continue the war without coming to terms with Germany…By my coming to England, the British Government can now declare that they are able to have talks…convinced that the offer by the Fuhrer is genuine…the British Government has no reason for further bloodshed…the British will agree to the suggestions made.”

But Hess did not receive the welcome he expected and spent the rest of the war in prison, including a spell in the Tower of London.

He was convicted of war crimes in the Nuremberg trials in 1946 and spent the rest of his life in Spandau Prison in Berlin, dying in 1987 aged 93.

And in a further twist, the British press reported on Saturday that Scotland Yard was given the names of British agents who allegedly murdered Hess, but were advised by prosecutors to not pursue its investigations.

The newly released police report, uncovered through the Freedom of Information Act, outlines an inquiry into claims made by a British surgeon who had treated Hess that he was murdered by British agents.

After Hess’ failed peace treaty attempt he was cut off by the Nazis. Hitler ordered Hess to be shot should he return to Germany and he was depicted as delusional in state media.

But speculation has remained as to what extent, if any, Hess was acting on Hitler’s orders or if his flight was a propaganda coup engineered by the British.

Slightly more ridiculous theories include that it was in fact a body double and not Hess who parachuted into Britain in 1941.

The auction house added: “This archive for the first time brings to light Hess' own thoughts on his failed "peace mission", written in his own hand at the time the events occurred. Virtually none of the content of this file has been written by others: it is a first-person history of the great historic importance.”

'England’s position is hopeless'

The documents set out the peace terms and Hess’s attempt to convince the British that : “In order to prevent future wars between England and Germany spheres of interest shall be defined. Germany’s sphere of interest is Europe - England’s sphere of interest is her Empire.”

He warns the British: “Our aircraft factories are still standing…factories have been added…England’s position is hopeless.”

Hess adds: “The numbers of our U-Boats…are very considerable…three-quarters of Europe is engaged in building U-Boats…U-Boat warfare as envisaged by the Führer has not yet commenced…The convoy system has failed…American ship production cannot be sufficient to cover these losses.”

He adds: “When I was considering the question of this flight I always made enquiries of the Führer as to the conditions of peace.”

But Lord Simon believed Hess was acting outside of Hitler’s orders and the documents detail a transcript of their interview.

When asked if he came to Britain with Hitler’s knowledge Hess replies: “Without his knowledge Absolutely. [Laughs]…Yes, surely… they are the ideas of the Führer…”

[svinayak]

The documents set out the peace terms and Hess’s attempt to convince the British that : “In order to prevent future wars between England and Germany spheres of interest shall be defined. Germany’s sphere of interest is Europe - England’s sphere of interest is her Empire.”

He warns the British: “Our aircraft factories are still standing…factories have been added…England’s position is hopeless.”

Hess adds: “The numbers of our U-Boats…are very considerable…three-quarters of Europe is engaged in building U-Boats…U-Boat warfare as envisaged by the Führer has not yet commenced…The convoy system has failed…American ship production cannot be sufficient to cover these losses.”

He adds: “When I was considering the question of this flight I always made enquiries of the Führer as to the conditions of peace.”

Hess gave away too much information to eh British about how the germans think about the war and how do they look at the various advantages they have.

British planned and focused on the U boat strategy and also the factories of Germany

[Lisa]

Unseen Hess files on WWII flight up for auction.The Hess who landed in Britain was the genuine article,the man in Spandau the fake.

http://www.thelocal.de/national/20130909-51827.html

Philip,

You may be on a slippery path if you start believing, without question, all that you read.

[Lalmohan]

spandau ballet?

[vishvak]

I wonder when this is going to happen in India!

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... es-charges

Nigel Evans to be charged with sexual offences
Commons deputy speaker resigns from role after CPS announces charges of sexual assault, indecent assault and rape
Ben Quinn
The Guardian, Tuesday 10 September 2013
..

err.. do the English have laws that ban criminals from house of commons? Otherwise how can other parliaments have such laws no?

[Haresh]

err.. do the English have laws that ban criminals from house of commons? Otherwise how can other parliaments have such laws no?

I don't think that there is a law in the UK to ban them from Parliament. However that is not the point.
The point is this.
IF you want a better standard of Governance then they SHOULD be Banned.

Law makers have to lead by example.

In the UK an MP or prospective MP would be dropped by his party pretty quickly if he was found to be involved in illegality, that would not happen in India as you well know.
That is why in the Indian media regular reports appear of MP's/politicians being involved in all sorts of lawlessness.

[vishvak]

Law is social also. What you mention is what comes out.

English seem to have found a way to go around this with enough loopholes with keeping morally high ground without laws backing the image.

[Haresh]

Law is social also. What you mention is what comes out.

English seem to have found a way to go around this with enough loopholes with keeping morally high ground without laws backing the image.

I am not to sure what you mean by this.
There are social contraints, but if they are ineffectual then there is a need for specific laws.

If you are a member of dishonest group of people and they see nothing wrong in being a thief, dishonest, abusing their privilages and abusing the common man, then it maybe socially acceptable to behave that way, wider society may not accept it, then you need laws to stop it.

With regards to
"English seem to have found a way to go around this with enough loopholes with keeping morally high ground without laws backing the image"

All politicians do this, thats why the common man must insist on ethical behavior.

[Shanmukh]

In the UK an MP or prospective MP would be dropped by his party pretty quickly if he was found to be involved in illegality, that would not happen in India as you well know.

Ehh - people who committed genocides have been cheerfully welcomed in the British Parliament. If you say - `a man who has committed a crime in UK would be dropped', I would agree. It is not the crime that matters to the British, it is who you commit the crime against ......

[vishvak]

The point is Indians have learnt well from western democracies but what happened to standards made into laws etc -rest seems to be a loophole and UK could implement such a standard as a law without condition of its like this only everywhere. My last onto this - Indian SC has judged no criminals in Parliament without such conditions.

[Haresh]

Ehh - people who committed genocides have been cheerfully welcomed in the British Parliament. If you say - `a man who has committed a crime in UK would be dropped', I would agree. It is not the crime that matters to the British, it is who you commit the crime against ......

I am going to assume this is a reference to Churchill! Yes you are right in all of your statement.
When I wrote "a man who has committed a crime in UK would be dropped' I dit literally mean "in the UK" It is OK to commit crimes abroad against "darkies"

However I think all people are like this throughout the world, if the crime is committed against "the other" then it is never as bad.

[Shanmukh]

I am going to assume this is a reference to Churchill! Yes you are right in all of your statement.

Churchill is just one example. There are dozens I could name, starting from Lord Lytton (he has a record to rival Herbert Baeke) to the `heroes' of the Mau Mau massacres in Kenya in the 1950s and 60s. Mind you, I am keeping strictly to those who committed genocide directly. Those who did it by proxy are innumerable ......

[Lisa]

I wonder when this is going to happen in India!

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... es-charges

Nigel Evans to be charged with sexual offences
Commons deputy speaker resigns from role after CPS announces charges of sexual assault, indecent assault and rape
Ben Quinn
The Guardian, Tuesday 10 September 2013
..

err.. do the English have laws that ban criminals from house of commons? Otherwise how can other parliaments have such laws no?

The operative word is 'Criminal', ie based on a conviction. Mr Evans has NOT been convicted of anything. He has resigned only because he has been charged. Not since B. Sands has any MP ever been subject to a party whip with a conviction. Could you say the same for the Indian Parliament?

Furthermore, just for the record, an act of parliament does prevent a prisoner serving a jail term of more than one year in the UK from being nominated as candidate in a British elections. Just out of curiosity, can a prisoner stand for office in India?

[Shanmukh]

. Just out of curiosity, can a prisoner stand for office in India?

No. The Supreme Court has barred felons convicted in serious crimes from contesting elections, even if the conviction is being appealed. it also precludes prisoners from contesting elections.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... 74740.html

However, there are still loopholes in the framework.

[Lisa]

Understood, pity there is no law and just a SC decision.

[Sagar G]

Furthermore, just for the record, an act of parliament does prevent a prisoner serving a jail term of more than one year in the UK from being nominated as candidate in a British elections.

Which act ???

[Lisa]

Representation of the People Act 1981

[brihaspati]

Those who are saying that UK is legally stricter than India, in some sense - are correct. To understand what is involved, one should look at the structure of the laws. In both countries almost all laws apply equally, technically to all citizens. But there are too many saintly characters in both countries - and the saints are thicker than trees in a rainforest - the higher up the economic ladder one goes.

The highest orders are almost angels - you never find any transgressions or brush with law anywhere in their lives. Just think of the royal family of UK and the virtual royal family of India, and then the rings of select courtiers, bankers, godmen, socialites, entrepreneurs, celebrities around them. Nah - nothing stains their records. Isn't it remarkable? Truly wondrous characters! One is forced to be in awe at such divine perfections who roam among mere sinful mortals.

There is a subtle clue here. The laws should be made in such ways that the rich and the powerful have no need to break them. Even if they do, those breaks vanish or are perhaps never seen or perhaps never recorded. Or keep laws vague in zones where the rich and the powerful would otherwise be forced to break them but which are completely irrelevant for the lives of the "lower" levels. For example the "libor fixing" thingie. There was no crime because the laws miraculously fit the requirements for tailor made non-pinnable-non-crime slots. The aam on the other hand would have had no power to fix the libor anyway - so it is not as if the laxity or large holes in the legal net can be taken advantage of by them anyway.

People mentioning the "Mau mau" should understand that everything is permissible in the "national interest", an adjective whose applicability to specific cases is something to be determined by angels and saints anyway. Moreover, the incriminating records can always be burned or destroyed as their preservation and potential leak into public domain might hurt "national interests" - as was done in the Mau mau case. If there is no court provable evidence of the "burning" and destruction of "evidence", then there is no case - and the strict applicability of the law in the UK sense will imply there is no case. Its all very legal onlee.

Lisa ji is right in a way too - and it is unfortunate - that either the British angels failed to teach the strictly legal modus operandi of doing such stuff, or the Indian angels failed to learn from their British counterparts, properly.

People can look at the trajectory of how UK reacted to the "NatWest Three" - from the media, the legalese obsessed crowd, the House of Commons, ityadi. A lot should appear to those who can see the patterns.

[member_27444]

to madam Lisa... with regards to ....

The Impeachment of Warren Hastings was a failed attempt to impeach the former Governor-General of India Warren Hastings in the Parliament of Great Britain between 1788 and 1795. Hastings was accused of misconduct during his time in Calcutta particularly relating to mismanagement and personal corruption. The prosecution was led by Edmund Burke and became a wider debate about the role of the East India Company and the expanding empire in India.
The trial did not sit continuously and the case dragged on for seven years. When the eventual verdict was given Hastings was overwhelmingly acquitted. It has been described as "probably the British Isles' most famous, certainly the longest, political trial".[1]

may amuse