West Asia News and Discussions

[habal]

It's not so much that Ass-ad is a butchering, barbaric, lunatic, children killing dictator.

Proof please !

A war addict, rants and rails against Obama.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/rig ... ck-bottom/

[Lilo]

Habal,
It doesn't matter what I gain or lose. It is what humanity gains. The fact that a person could gas innocent men, women and especially children is beyond the pale of civility. Get it? Tell me what part of this is obtuse to you. And no it doesn't matter one iota who did it. As the ruler of the land, it is your responsibility to see that either these heinous weapons don't exist or are amply secured--or more likely, the fact that he had to resort to something so dastardly to keep himself in power. So, yes, I will take every joy seeing him qaddafy-ducked.

...... Agent Orange ring any bells. Nuclear bomb in hiroshima. Depleted Uranium in Iraq. Women & children for whom your heart bleeds profusely killed in copious numbers. First clear your own country of war-criminals before heading abroad.

Does your war-obsessed mind have any idea what will happen to those Syrian minorities once McCain sponsored Al-Qaeda gains in Syria. Do you have any idea whatsoever. Care to read the conversation from 2 McCain terrorists on how to deal with a neutral Sunni muslim may give you some clues.

Ohh they are doing something akin to that in Massa these days Habal ji...
Dow chemicals which refuses to take on liability for the continuing effects of actions of its own company in Bhopal however embarked in recent past to Clean up Massa - it titled the PR exercise as "The Great Massan Clean up".

Well enough of OT from my end I guess.

[Shanmukh]

So the thesis of this room finally emerges. It's not so much that Ass-ad is a butchering, barbaric, lunatic, children killing dictator. It's that America is that much worse so Ass-ad gets a pass. Wonderful. And the Russians apparently have no blood on their hands even though Stalin killed more people than Hitler. And for the nth time, Agent Orange was used as a defoliant, and more American GI's have died from its handling and spraying than North Vietnamese troops, so please give that asinine conspiracy theory a rest. While you're at it, go look up at all of the still born cyclops fetuses born to non-white Russians where their nuclear bombs were tested or the impact of Chernobyl or initial Russian lies that it was a "minor accident."

No - Anant-ji. The worry is more about what comes after Assad. The cannibalistic creatures who are leading the `Syrian revolution' do not inspire us with much confidence. As bad as Assad is, the al-Qaeda-ish barbarians that will replace him are likely to be infinitely worse. At the very least 20-25% of Syria is likely to be ethnically cleansed if the al-Qaeda cohorts come to power. I rest my case.

[Anant]

Why do I care what Jennifer Rubin has to say? The fact of the matter is that Ass-ad's days are numbered. Whether he gets killed by rebels, his own circle or my preference a Tomahawk or a jdam is immaterial. He is the walking dead. And I, and many others, will celebrate the death of a child killing coward. Perhaps Habal you will mourn. That is your choice. This is not so complex really. It's good v. evil. Assad and his father are/were evil despots. Soon, he will be paraded on tv in some form of dead avatar. Then I'll come read the endless eulogies on here praising a barbaric nut who is now being defanged and put in a smaller and smaller box, till his oxygen runs out and he gets his just desserts.

[habal]

Ok you don't care for Jennifer Rubin, no one asked you to. It was just an article.

Since you have been officially sanctioned and endoresed a depravity i.e. lusting for the blood of a non-American viz Assad.

Can you outline your fool-proof strategy in how to protect and save the lives of Syrian minorities after Assad's ouster ???

[Shanmukh]

It's good v. evil.

I get it that in your theory, Assad is `evil'. Who is `good'?

[habal]

It's good v. evil.

I get it that in your theory, Assad is `evil'. Who is `good'?

McCain, Kerry, Dubya, Hillary.

[Anant]

Someone who doesn't gas their children. What gives you the supposition that Syria's minorities are doing well now?

[habal]

Someone who doesn't gas their children. What gives you the supposition that Syria's minorities are doing well now?

So you don't have any plan ! Your plan is to hand them over to Al-Kasai.

[member_20317]

So the thesis of this room finally emerges. It's not so much that Ass-ad is a butchering, barbaric, lunatic, children killing dictator. It's that America is that much worse so Ass-ad gets a pass. Wonderful. And the Russians apparently have no blood on their hands even though Stalin killed more people than Hitler. And for the nth time, Agent Orange was used as a defoliant, and more American GI's have died from its handling and spraying than North Vietnamese troops, so please give that asinine conspiracy theory a rest. While you're at it, go look up at all of the still born cyclops fetuses born to non-white Russians where their nuclear bombs were tested or the impact of Chernobyl or initial Russian lies that it was a "minor accident."

No - Anant-ji. The worry is more about what comes after Assad. The cannibalistic creatures who are leading the `Syrian revolution' do not inspire us with much confidence. As bad as Assad is, the al-Qaeda-ish barbarians that will replace him are likely to be infinitely worse. At the very least 20-25% of Syria is likely to be ethnically cleansed if the al-Qaeda cohorts come to power. I rest my case.

I would have had more confidence in the aftermath had the Americans on this forum been on the ground establishing the rule of law. They have proved beyond doubt that their heart lies in the right place and I am sure given some resources they would have carried more weight. Unfortunately for the world it is the same bunch of control freaks who messed up the last wars that are incharge.

.................

TSJ ji,

Next time can weight for some time. Let people find out their own dicks and their own depth. Is hamam mein sub nange hein.

Right now Americans should be worrying about how to manage the situation of their own making in a way that more bad blood does not get created.

[svinayak]

UN Clash Looms Over Syria Resolution and Enforcement

Syria: Obama Cautious Over Weapons Deal

As Syrian crisis turns, US conservatives rally behind Putin

Hagel Dodged the Kerry Question Two Weeks Ago

Obama, in speech on Syria, says America can't 'look the other way'

Russia Rejects French Plan for UN Resolution on Syria

[Shanmukh]

Someone who doesn't gas their children. What gives you the supposition that Syria's minorities are doing well now?

Both Lebanese and Syrian Christians and Druze are on Assad's side (and they are definitely minorities). Hebrew newspapers, run by the Druze in Israel, are wholeheartedly on the side of Assad, if you care to read them. If you have been paying attention to the Syrian revolution, you should have seen that the rebels are butchering the Christians, chasing them out, or forcing them to convert - something that Assad has not done. I have no love for Assad. Assad is a ruthless dictator, and tyrant. But, for all that, he is a relatively secular (in comparison to the Syrian rebels) Arab nationalist, and Christians and Druze have a place (not an exalted one, but nevertheless, a viable one) in his rule. There will be no place for them in the coming al-Qaeda dispensation. Nor will there be a place for the Alawites. I fear that they will face the fate of the Shia Hazaras in Afghanistan under the Taliban rule, in the coming al-Qaeda government.

[Singha]

Someone who doesn't gas their children. What gives you the supposition that Syria's minorities are doing well now?

atleast they didnt get their ancient churches burned, graves of old saints robbed looking for gold and priests manhandled.

you can look up the previous pages of this thread for reports on the same.

the Kurds have also thrown their lot in with the govt and started their campaign for survival...since their main enemies the turks are now in bed with al-keeda.

[svinayak]

If your foreign policy has to be rescued by a dictator, you are doing it wrong.

Give President Obama credit: He has done such a good job of acting unpredictably in the lead-up to his proposed military strikes on Syria that no one knows what he will do next. He has successfully confused ally and enemy alike. Sun Tzu would be proud.

But President Obama cannot take all the credit for sowing confusion. Secretary of State John Kerry also has the unique distinction of becoming the first chief American diplomat whose offhand quip at a press conference launched a last-minute, global diplomatic initiative to disarm a murderous dictator. Kerry never thought that he was making a bold bid to avert military strikes that his president’s party and public had no interest in supporting. He simply suggested that if Bashar al-Assad handed all of his chemical weapons over in a week, that might stave off an impending U.S. attack—and of course, Assad wasn’t going to do that. The State Department rushed forward to clarify that Kerry wasn’t floating an actual proposal—he was just speaking rhetorically. You know, riffing. To say that the Obama administration is freelancing when it comes to foreign policy is an insult to freelancers.
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Still, Vladimir Putin knows an opportunity when he sees it. The Kremlin pounced on Kerry’s diplomatic spitballing.

[habal]

some inconvenient details to war-criminal crowd:

http://nsnbc.me/2013/09/10/photo-video- ... xperts-un/

Christof Lehmann (nsnbc) , - International experts have provided convincing evidence, proving that purported photo and video evidence of the alleged chemical weapons attack on 21 September in the Damascus countryside has been fabricated. The international experts have presented the evidence on the falsification of photo and video “evidence” during the 24th session of the UN Human Rights Council in Geneva on Monday.

The Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs has stated on Tuesday, that the international experts have provided convincing evidence, supporting previous statements that purported photo and video evidence of the alleged attack has been fabricated.

Now to cover H&D loss from this, they will have to commit another even more heinous war-crime.

[Anant]

21st September huh? Wow. You might want to post articles from websites that at least have a shred of credibility.

[habal]

Evidence against Assad is hard to find, not even the staunchest supporter of war-criminal bandar can find any evidence when asked for.
Yet evidence against the McCain terrorists just doesn't stop coming in.

European Journalist kidnapped by backed Nato Rebels ..tells the truth about them..
They say the Rebels and not Assad are behind the chemical attacks in Syria.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkc2ZtPvc8o

[habal]

21st September huh? Wow. You might want to post articles from websites that at least have a shred of credibility.

Not too used to free speech are you ? You are obviously playing safe, this is what happens to those Americans who question the likes of war-criminal Kerry.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNrRgXqkyaU
Unquestioning obedience is required if they have to live & prosper in their country gulag.
Prosperity comes at a cost.
of conscience.

[Theo_Fidel]

The present situation in Syria is unstable. Al Qaeda is infiltrating Syria because Bashar refuses to go. He could have easily democratized, declared open elections and made an attempt to build a modern stable power sharing state with all its challenges. It is his refusal to go that has left the people he claims to protect so vulnerable. I think it is too late now, some form of genocide is going to take place, either of the Alawites and allies or the Sunni jee-hard crowd.

[Rudradev]

The Southern Baptists of Lemuria have spoken. ^

Al Qaeda is infiltrating Syria BECAUSE Bashar refuses to go. Just like the LeT infiltrating into Kashmir "because India refuses to go."

Make no mistake, the SAME arguments have and will be made by the SAME sources. You know which sources- the ones that send cheques to select Indian, I mean Lemurian spokespersons.

Added later: now wait for the standard Lemurian strawman "how can you compare India to a genocidal tyrant like Assad" etc. Note that my argument doesn't compare India and Assad- it merely points out that the same rhetorical justifications have been, and will be used against both India and Assad by the same people- regardless of the truth.

[Sanku]

Bandar is going to miss all his moolah if there is no war! There will be attempts to sabotage the deal.

The true story of the Libyan Bhengazi consulate attack? The link has supporting video clips as well.Intriguing stufff.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/s ... -challenge

US consulate attack in Benghazi: a challenge to official version of events

Thanks for the this Philip-ji; very interesting. If we read this, the US strategy, and tactics revolve around buying protection from Islamist warlords, all the hi faultin stuff like prism, F22, big military etc etc, are all majorly hollow.

The whole charade is built around transfer of money and cutting deals with low life scum.

I am sure others are noticing this change of strategy/tactics under O'Bomber as well.

[Austin]

As was expecting from this crises , Putin has allowed the sale of more advanced S-300VM to Iran

Russia called the terms of delivery of S-300 to Iran
http://lenta.ru/news/2013/09/11/s300/

Russian President Vladimir Putin has taken a policy decision, which will have to resolve the conflict between Moscow and Tehran regarding the delivery of anti-aircraft missile systems S-300. According to the newspaper "Kommersant" quoted a source close to the Kremlin, according to the decision, Russia will supply Iran with five battalions of S-300VM "Antey-2500", but on the condition that Tehran will withdraw a lawsuit against the "Rosoboronexport" for the failure of the previous contract.

According to the newspaper, Tehran is likely to agree to supply a set of "Antey-2500". Earlier, Iranian Ambassador to Russia Seyed Mahmoud Reza Sajjadi said that Moscow could offer Tehran anti-aircraft missile systems, "which are able to cover our territory in the framework of the plan" and that will suit the Iranian side on the cost and time of delivery, "we could be flexible." It should be noted that the S-300VM prohibitions under the UN and Russia to supply not covered.

The new S-300VM as was sold to Venezuela has a range of 350 km
http://samoletchik.livejournal.com/63876.html

[member_20317]

The present situation in Syria is unstable. Al Qaeda is infiltrating Syria because Bashar refuses to go. He could have easily democratized, declared open elections and made an attempt to build a modern stable power sharing state with all its challenges. It is his refusal to go that has left the people he claims to protect so vulnerable. I think it is too late now, some form of genocide is going to take place, either of the Alawites and allies or the Sunni jee-hard crowd.

I am also low because of the inevitability. I wish it was the Americans who would get ....

The struck off section is not even worth responding to.

[Added later : Don't these minorities have any samson option. they should have kept something of the sort for themselves. Heads they lose tails they lose, this is the right time to wreck this game of dice.]

[Singha]

TSP is infiltrating Cashmere because India refuses to vacate....oops TSP has a problem because India exists....

[habal]

[habal]

Now, after the US acknowledges Russian mediation in Syrian theatre, they have to consult Russia before going ahead with any unilateral action. Obama may just have cleverly side-stepped the Syrian landmine. Warmongers will of course not stop at this, but they will have to make a different case or pretext for going to war with Syria, and they are also getting isolated. Await a new incident that gives tailor-made pretext for strikes.

Publicly Obama is still posturing strikes, targeted but not pin pricks, whatever he means with that. Maybe to satisfy likes of Bandar who has paid top dollar and Obama's mercenary army refuses to strike or puts boots on ground. But in private talks with Putin, he is very amenable to some kind of compromise to break deadlock.

Putting Syrian chemical weapons under intl control makes sense only if US drops plans to use force - Putin

http://voiceofrussia.com/news/2013_09_1 ... utin-6664/

"The idea to put the Syrian chemical weapons under international control can be implemented only if the U.S. drops its plans to use force against Damascus, said Russian President Vladimir Putin.

"Certainly, all this makes sense and can work only if we hear that the U.S. side and everyone who supports the U.S. in this sense drops the idea of using force," Putin said on Tuesday.

"It is hard to make any country, be it Syria or any other country in the world, disarm unilaterally if some forcible action is being prepared against it," he said.

"We will work together with the Syrians and with our American partners," he said.

"I'd like to reiterate that I hope this will be a good step toward a peaceful resolution of the crisis," Putin said..."

Meanwhile, exposing the war criminal's role continues:

http://voiceofrussia.com/news/2013_09_1 ... says-4623/

A representative of the National Coalition of Syria's Opposition and Revolutionary Forces Khalid Saleh says that the US has started to supply weapons to the Syrian opposition.

Mr. Saleh was speaking on Wednesday at a press conference in Washington, where, as he said, he came from Turkey. He is one of the delegates of the Syrian opposition who came to the US to meet with the President's administration and the Congress's members to persuade them to adopt a resolution that would sanction the US interference in the Syrian conflict with force.

Earlier, the US claimed that it supplied the Syrian opposition with means of communications and other items, but not with weapons. Now, Khalid Saleh says that recently, the US started to supply several kinds of weapons to the Supreme Military Council of the Syrian Free Army, which is headed by Salim Idris.

Khalid Saleh also claims that this Supreme Military Council of the Syrian opposition has managed to persuade the US that the arms that it is supplying to Syria “will not get into wrong hands”.

Those "wrong hands" no doubt being the elements of the insurgency considered to be of debatable to the zionazi cause and who might surrender themselves, and their American weapons, to the SAA.

[AbhiJ]

Nightwatch:

The Syrian government has accepted a Russian proposal to put its chemical weapons under international control to avoid a possible U.S. military strike, Interfax news agency quoted Syria's foreign minister as saying on Tuesday.

Syrian Foreign Minister Mu'allim said, "We held a very fruitful round of talks with Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov yesterday, and he proposed an initiative relating to chemical weapons. And in the evening we agreed to the Russian initiative." He said Syria had agreed because this would "remove the grounds for American aggression."

Before leaving Moscow, the Foreign Minister made several astounding announcements reported by Russian media. He said,

-- Syria is willing to join the Chemical Weapons Convention;

-- Syria is ready to disclose the location of its chemical weapons;

-- Syria is willing to halt production of chemical weapons, and,

-- Syria is willing to show its facilities to representatives of Russia, the United Nations and other states.

Comment: These are astonishing concessions because they signify that the Asad government is willing to agree to never wage war with Israel. Syrian forces never stood a chance of fighting Israel -- either attacking or defending -- without the threat of chemical weapons delivered by North Korean-made/designed missiles or without some other force multiplier, such as nuclear weapons.

In 2007 Israel destroyed Syria's vestigial plutonium weapons program, when it destroyed the reactor under construction with North Korean assistance. Since then, Syria's only deterrent and equalizer against Israel has been its chemical weapons and delivery systems.

No media analysts have appreciated the significance and implications of Mu'allim's announcements. They represent a partial disarmament agreement and a de facto non-aggression or peace agreement, deals Israel could never achieve on its own. This is a once in a century opportunity.

The exchange of value requires the US to agree to not attack Syria. There are some profound ramifications.

American strategists must recognize that this deal is only good so long as the Ba'athist government survives in Damascus. Thus, the US promise to not attack Asad would amount to a protection agreement because the Islamists and the moderate Islamists will not make a similar guarantee. Yesterday, even so-called moderate rebel groups announced that they recognized Israel as their enemy and would attack it if they came to power.

The US protective umbrella would also apply to Israel for the same reason it applies to the US. If the Islamists win, Israel would be under a chemical warfare threat. That threat goes away only if the Ba'athist government remains in power.

Russia Today carried an unconfirmed report that the Syrian rebels intend to launch a chemical attack against Israel from within Syrian government-held territory to trigger even wider foreign intervention.

News coverage. Thus far, American international affairs analysts have been particularly dull in not seeing the strategic implications of the Syrian offers, apparently because they are focused on the Russian role. The most they could muster by way of so-called analysis was that this is the first time Syria has admitted having chemical weapons and you can't trust the Russians.

The Syrian proposals are not the actions of a state actor that is trying to hide its guilt. They are prima facie indicators of innocence to back up Syria's consistent assertion that it launched no chemical attack on the 21st of August. Syria is so desperate to prove its innocence that it is willing to make itself vulnerable to an extraordinary degree.

Authenticity in war preparations and negotiations is measured by the payment of real costs -- financial, military vulnerability aka confidence measures, political and social. What Syria has offered involves significant costs that can be verified.

At a minimum the Syrian offer should be accepted instantly and put to the test.

Special NightWatch Comment: Many international analysts have indulged in the worst forms of mirror-imaging and other analytical fallacies

Underestimation. Concerning the Syrian offers to control its chemical weapons, so-called analysts have ascribed to Syria difficulties that the US or Europe expect to encounter in accounting for chemical weapons. The rationale is that if we can't do it, no one else can. That is one of the oldest fallacies of intelligence analysis. It is the fallacy of underestimating the enemy.

During the past 30 months of fighting, no rebel group has captured a Syrian chemical weapons storage facility. Syria claims to be in control of its weapons and that claim appears to be supported by the facts.

[Lalmohan]

heard an interview on the radio this morning with various senators on the foreign relations committee (or whatever its called) - the gist of it seemed to be - 'you can't trust the russkies canya? and we reserve the right to whack anyone should we choose to and chem weapons are bad'

no particular mention of assad per se

[Austin]

^^ Saw the same argument on CNN Panel yesterday , Since the offer came from Russia it cannot be trusted with it , Syria too cannot be tested because it gassed its own people.

Ammanpour shouting on top of her voice bombing is a great thing to do and its the right thing to do as US is the some power who can do that.

It pretty much sickening to watch these CNN debate , most known faces on TV have a fixed POV and the have these deep ingrained in their pysche that We are Good and They are Bad ..... We are Just & Fair and they are Bad & Evil.

Something terrible wrong with American News Media where most cannot objectively analyse the situation even justifying past wrong doing as right.

[Austin]

Russian MOD comment on last week Israel launch , Seems it reenforces the point that Israel launch was suppose to be a secret launch which got detected by Russian EW

http://ria.ru/world/20130911/962430612.html

Detection launches of Russian troops in the Mediterranean last week forced the Russian potential opponents to draw conclusions, said Wednesday Deputy Defense Minister, Colonel-General Oleg Ostapenko.

"The findings made by our potential adversaries. We showed what we are capable of, and that if necessary, be able to apply what we have," - said Ostapenko, answering questions from reporters.

[devesh]

The present situation in Syria is unstable. Al Qaeda is infiltrating Syria because Bashar refuses to go. He could have easily democratized, declared open elections and made an attempt to build a modern stable power sharing state with all its challenges. It is his refusal to go that has left the people he claims to protect so vulnerable. I think it is too late now, some form of genocide is going to take place, either of the Alawites and allies or the Sunni jee-hard crowd.

this logic is more retarded every time I re-read it. AQ is infiltrating because Assad refuses to go? what? when somebody asks you where your nose is, do you twist your hand around your head and point it out?!

AQ is infiltrating b/c it's been provided the means and ideology to do so. if Assad goes, it's open season for the Jihadis of all kinds. they will pour in and transform Syrian society into a rabid Islamic den just as they've done in countless countries since their inception 1500 years ago. periodically, we have tyrants like Assad who understand the nature of that beast.

AQ or any other Jihadis would naturally pour into any society susceptible to them. and yes, every Sunni majority country is susceptible to Islamic jihadism (not that Shia ones are not), but currently, the Sunni Jihadis seem to be the ones with the most expansive and global vision for spreading their ideology.

[partha]

^^ Saw the same argument on CNN Panel yesterday , Since the offer came from Russia it cannot be trusted with it , Syria too cannot be tested because it gassed its own people.

Ammanpour shouting on top of her voice bombing is a great thing to do and its the right thing to do as US is the some power who can do that.

It pretty much sickening to watch these CNN debate , most known faces on TV have a fixed POV and the have these deep ingrained in their pysche that We are Good and They are Bad ..... We are Just & Fair and they are Bad & Evil.

Something terrible wrong with American News Media where most cannot objectively analyse the situation even justifying past wrong doing as right.

Austinji, mind boggling display of double standards by some people in US, no? People who demonized Bush for Iraq war now want Obama to start a war in Syria because Assad allegedly gassed his people to death. It looks like they don't remember that Saddam too gassed his people to death.

[Lalmohan]

and saddam was a good guy when he gassed the eye-ran-ians to death

[habal]

Syrian rebels are on drugs to sustain themselves and their hold their spirits during their 'low days' when skies are gray and the prevailing atmosphere is grayer. There is no entertainment except the possibility of the odd mortar hitting their yard or the odd air-strike. As they await their uncertain future and poor fate, the only thing that sustains them is captagon. A wonder drug of amphetamine class wildly popular in Syria. Rebels are majorly into drug trade to fund their arms and ammunition and so that they are 'independent self-sustaining units'. And they are flooding the region with huge quantities of these drugs.
http://www.dailystar.com.lb/News/Lebano ... z2eaFzKUm6
Wonder what drug the likes of Obama and Kerry are on, they have soulless eyes and speak blatant lies constantly looking directly into the camera. In future time to come, Kerry will be studied in schools as a human being gone terribly wrong, and what can go wrong if one were to suspend their conscience and everything human along with it for a dark and vague concept of power. Lyndon Johnson did the same thing in Vietnam as Obama tried to do in Syria, he was wildly popular, a democrat, topped the charts in ratings. And gave it all away for a pointless war that claimed millions of innocent lives. So this is not a new trend, but is now more in focus because the rate of wars has gone up from once in a decade to once every other year. The goals are the same, but rate is more frequent now.

People are openly irritated of this charade and want a change of conscience and not just a change of masks with each election.

http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2013/09 ... g-roberts/

The White House Fool keeps repeating his nonsensical statement, as if the Fool is a wound-up talking doll, that Assad’s unproven “use of chemical weapons is a threat to global security.”

Dear reader, who besides the White House Fool is so unbelievably stupid as to believe that Syria is a threat to world security?

If Syria is a “threat to world security,” like Iraq was a “threat to world security,” like Iran is alleged to be a “threat to world security,” what kind of superpower is the United States? How low does the IQ have to be, how mentally impaired does the public have to be to fall for these absurd hysterical allegations?

Let’s turn obama’s claim upon the Fool. Why isn’t it a threat to global security for obama to attack Syria? There is no authority for obama to attack Syria just because he wants to and just because he has demonized Assad with endless lies and just because obama is the total puppet of the crazed Israeli government and his neoconservative national security advisor, in effect an Israeli agent, and just because the Ministry of Propaganda, including NPR, repeats every obama lie as if it were the truth.

Isn’t it a threat to international security when a superpower can, acting on a whim, demonize a leader and a country and unleash mass destruction, as the US has done seven times in the past twelve years,? There are millions of innocent but demonized victims of the “indispensable, exceptional USA,” the “light unto the world.”

Forget about the US media, which is nothing but a propaganda ministry for the Israel Lobby. What the members of Congress and what the American people need to ask obama is why does the White House only represent the Israel Lobby?

No one supports an attack on Syria but the Israel Lobby.

[Austin]

Austinji, mind boggling display of double standards by some people in US, no? People who demonized Bush for Iraq war now want Obama to start a war in Syria because Assad allegedly gassed his people to death. It looks like they don't remember that Saddam too gassed his people to death.

I have not seen Mainstream Media in US/West i.e CNN , ABC , BBC etc every seriously criticizing US Invasion of Iraq or subsequent occupation for 10 years .... even if there were criticism it was mild only to be overwhelmed by "We brought Democracy" "Saddam was the Bad Guy and we are better off without him" "Life is so better without Saddam" "how US is fighting AQ in Iraq and how it impacts US War on Terror" etc etc.

Main Stream Media in US are castrated and always toes the Administration line when it comes to Foreign Policy.

[Austin]

UN investigators accused Syrian insurgents in war crimes

GENEVA, September 11. (Itar-Tass) – Syrian rebels, fighting alongside foreign mercenaries, commit “war crimes, including murder, execution without due process, torture, hostage-taking and attacking protected objects. They have besieged and indiscriminately shelled civilian neighborhoods.” These were the findings published in the “Report of the independent international commission of inquiry on the Syrian Arab Republic. “

At the same time, the report admits that “government and pro-government forces have continued to conduct widespread attacks on the civilian population, committing murder, torture, rape and enforced disappearance.” The document is based on investigation conducted from May 15 to July 15 of this year.

Ongoing radicalization

The report indicates that “Anti-government and Kurdish armed groups have recruited and used child soldiers in hostilities,” adding that “the radicalization of anti-government fighters continued.” “The discipline and operational abilities of radical fighters, combined with better access to reliable sponsors, allowed them to outmatch the fractious moderate groups. The most radical, such as Jabhat Al-Nusra and the Islamic State of Iraq and Al-Sham (ISIS), developed their own strongholds in the north,” the report emphasizes.

Experts of the commission which was established in August of 2011, admit that “As prospects for a political settlement stagnate, the warring parties’ willingness to negotiate has been affected by military developments on the ground.” The conflict grows both in terms of the number of participants and spectrum of crimes; torture remains widespread.

War crimes

The report provides evidence that both sides of the conflict is part to war crimes, such as massacres, illegal killings, arrests and detention, hostage-taking, infringement of rights of children. Other violations include rules of combat. “Across the country, hospitals were destroyed and medical personnel targeted,” the document reports.

Human Rights Council

Next Monday the independent international commission of inquiry on the Syrian Arab Republic chaired by Paulo Sérgio Pinheiro will present the report to Human Rights Council during its 24th session in Geneva.

The commission was denied entry into Syria, thus “the information contained in the present report is based on 258 interviews conducted in the region and from Geneva, including via Skype and telephone,” the report notes.

[Kati]

Anant-ji, please......
your proof of "Assad gassing his people" knowingly as much as others' proof that it was the rebels' handiwork who were supplied the chem weapons by Al Sauds via Jordan.
...
We are all talking about relative crimes. Compared to what massa has done over years is far more than what the collection of all dictators have done together. I guess the case can rest now.
.....

[pankajs]

Russia's Syria proposal offers major powers clear advantages

Even if the proposal bogs down at the U.N., it provides a diplomatic way out of a military strike. Syrian rebels and their supporters, however, stand to lose.

WASHINGTON — The Russian proposal for Syria to surrender its chemical weapons has gained great momentum because it provides clear advantages to several world leaders and leaves as the losers a smaller group that lacks much power to influence the outcome.

Even if the Russian proposal bogs down at the United Nations, as many observers expect, it offers a way to put the issue back in meeting rooms rather than on the battlefield, easing anxiety in many world capitals.

A U.S. bombardment of Syria with cruise missiles, which President Obama had planned, would certainly inflict damage, including a high likelihood of civilian casualties. Despite assurances that the attacks would be "narrow and limited," an American military strike would raise risks of escalation and retaliation.

The Syrians demonstrated their worry about the Pentagon's ability to severely damage their military as they scrambled in the last two weeks to hide troops and equipment. The Russians, with ships in the neighborhood and probably technical advisors in Syria, didn't want the risk of an unintended conflict with the United States.

America's European allies, concerned about chemical attacks in Syria but facing open rebellion from antiwar constituents, were desperate for a diplomatic out.

And the Obama administration was facing the prospect of a defeat in Congress on a question of war and peace, a setback that no American president has suffered in the modern era.

"This was going to be a pretty serious attack, so the Russian proposal has come as a face-saver for a whole lot of people," said Geoffrey Kemp, a top national security aide in the Reagan White House. "That's why we've seen this extraordinary circus as everybody's rushed over to this idea."

For each of the major powers, the Russian plan offers some attractive elements. It almost certainly would not lead to elimination of Syria's chemical weapons; few expect that Russia would support stripping its longtime ally of a stockpile that has been assiduously built up over decades. But a U.S. military bombardment would not have eliminated the weapons either. The Obama administration has been planning to avoid targeting chemical stockpiles, for fear of dispersing deadly clouds of gases over civilian populations.

Perhaps the clearest loser from the latest developments are the pro-Western factions of the Syrian rebels, who have worked to bring the United States into a direct military role in the war. They have now received clear evidence of how resistant the American public is to involvement in their conflict, even if the White House appears to be promising to provide some Syrian rebel groups with more powerful weaponry and training.

Also likely to be disappointed are the Saudis, their Persian Gulf allies and the Turks, all of whom oppose Assad and have sought to draw the U.S. and its allies into a larger military role in Syria.

Israel also may worry, particularly about what the Syria saga says about potential U.S. military pressure on Iran, a key ally of Assad. The Israeli government is depending on the United States to prevent Iran from developing nuclear weapons. It has been lobbying members of Congress to back Obama's plan to bombard Syria in the belief that military action would send a strong message to Tehran about U.S. resolve.

Avoiding a military strike would help Obama domestically but carries "an enormous downside" in the message sent to Iran and other adversaries as well as to allies that count on U.S. military support, said David F. Gordon, a former top U.S. intelligence official.

Japan, South Korea and the Philippines, all of which count on U.S. protection, "can't get a good feeling from this," said Gordon, who is with the Eurasia Group consulting firm. He predicted that the shift would make coming negotiations with Iran over its nuclear program "a lot more challenging."

[Garooda]

FYI

Human_Rights_Watch_Ghouta_Attack_Full_Report

Would be interesting to see the UN report.

[pankajs]

Obama's Shift On Syria: A Show Of Strength Or Fear?

Moreover, Congress' attitude reflects that of the nation itself. Rarely has Congress been quite so attentive to its constituents, who in turn have rarely been so lopsided in opposing a war. Even many who believe Syrian President Bashar Assad is guilty as charged do not favor intervention. And the percentage of those supporting even limited air strikes has actually declined since the crisis began in late August.

The specter of "another Iraq" looms over everything. The public generally sees no vital national interest at stake in Syria, and the public doubts that any "limited strike" would remain so.

Obviously, much has changed since Kennedy and Sorensen tried to touch the American psyche. But above all, we have had half a century of intermittent wars, some brief and some seemingly interminable. The achievements of these conflicts have been, in the end, highly debatable, and the costs are quite real. The damage to the national psyche has been incalculable.

Many of us think of these episodes and recall serial presidential speeches about backing up our national "ideals and principles" with a temporary action on a limited scale.

Where are we now in the Syria saga? Are we negotiating out of fear? Not out of fear of the Syrians, to be sure, or their Russian backers. The era of our fearing the "Soviets" or the "Empire of Evil" has passed. The fear now is of unintended consequences, including muddled engagements with casualties and confounding results.

So it makes sense for the White House, despite all its protestations, to fear defeat in the Congress, or at least in the House. You might say the president has less to fear from Assad or Russia President Vladimir Putin than from Reps. Michele Bachmann (R-Minn.) and Barbara Lee (D-Calif.), outspoken women who anchor opposite ends of the political spectrum in the House — and who both oppose a military strike against Syria.

It is that alliance of left and right, of peacenik and libertarian, that threatens to give this president a beatdown heard 'round the world. And that is why this president had a conversion on the missile flight path to Damascus.