West Asia News and Discussions

habal · Post by **habal** » 13 Sep 2013 20:34

Well, all radars would be pointed towards the sea because that is from where they would expect a strike. So a missile launched from Spain would make the radars scramble and open the way for a sea-launched attack. Also all Syrian AD radars would be switched on and turned away from sea and thus enabling tomahawk strike from mediterranean. It was form of facebook poke to test or expose Air Defence network.

member_27444 · Post by **member_27444** » 13 Sep 2013 20:38

look at the Russian boats they are on the other side of cyprus near turkey

1 ) US tested it missile to see if Russia could track it

2) Russia shot them down to prove it can not only track but shoot them down as well.

Curtain raiser for real stuff

Something Big will happen soon.

for historical perspective of Mediterranean region geo political compulsions (a little dated but still gives lineage to current line ups)
http://www.hri.org/forum/intpol/UNFICYP/1.html
anybody remember Archbishop Makarious

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 13 Sep 2013 20:57

If the US is ramping up arms shipments, Russia should do likewise etc, Russia too should ramp up training of Syrian troops and send advisors..it surely has many of Muslim extraction who fought for it in Chechnya.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 13 Sep 2013 21:19

i believe the syrian army is pretty well organised and competent, the miltias will need organising and marshalling

Chinmayanand · Post by **Chinmayanand** » 13 Sep 2013 21:29

Lalmohan wrote:i believe the syrian army is pretty well organised and competent, the miltias will need organising and marshalling

लालप्रोफ़ेसर , आप किसकी तरफ हैं ? सीरिया की सेना के साथ या फिर जेहादी सेना के साथ ?

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 13 Sep 2013 21:30

Analysis: Putin scores diplomatic win on Syria - CNN

Russians and Americans have been duking it out in the Twitter world over who's scoring more points in high-stakes diplomatic wrangling over Syria, U.S. President Barack Obama or Russian President Vladimir Putin.

Samantha Power, U.S. ambassador to the United Nations, tweeted Thursday: "Three days ago there seemed no diplomatic way to hold Assad accountable. Threat of U.S. action finally brought Russia to the table."

In her tweet, Margarita Simonyan, head of Russia's English-language television network RT, quipped: "If the Russian proposal on Syria works, Obama, as an honest man, has to give his Nobel Prize to Putin."

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 13 Sep 2013 21:33

Shalom: Syria case sets worrying precedent for Iran - JPost

The government’s self-imposed verbal restraint on Syria started to unravel Thursday, with Likud Ministers Yuval Steinitz and Silvan Shalom both warning about implications the Russian-brokered Syrian deal might have on Iran.

“Iran understands today that there is nothing backing up all the threats against it,” Regional Cooperation Minister Shalom said. “If it is impossible to do anything against little Syria, then certainly not against big Iran.”

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 13 Sep 2013 21:43

Chinmayanand wrote:
Lalmohan wrote:i believe the syrian army is pretty well organised and competent, the miltias will need organising and marshalling
लालप्रोफ़ेसर , आप किसकी तरफ हैं ? सीरिया की सेना के साथ या फिर जेहादी सेना के साथ ?

the christian and kurdish militias not the al-queeds

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 13 Sep 2013 23:22

Syria map in Ottoman times.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 13 Sep 2013 23:44

Nageshji the above reports suggest the Govt of Israel view don't they? If so might suggest taking Assad down is a priority. .

Shanmukh · Post by **Shanmukh** » 14 Sep 2013 02:52

Karan M wrote:Nageshji the above reports suggest the Govt of Israel view don't they? If so might suggest taking Assad down is a priority. .

The government (as acknowledged in the above article) had mostly kept mum. The Hebrew press was divided on the matter of intervention. The Israeli government is obsessed with Iran. If they are seeing any action against Syria as an expression of American will, then they are going to be pushing for action in Syria. Less about Assad, more about Iran. And as you can see in the article, the Hezbollah hardly is factoring into their calculations (if they are speaking the entire truth there, that is).

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 14 Sep 2013 03:00

pankajs wrote:Analysis: Putin scores diplomatic win on Syria - CNN

Kerry's goose is probably cooked as there will be demands for him to resign.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 14 Sep 2013 03:13

Satya, Many more will step down for defeat has its own consequences.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 14 Sep 2013 03:27

ramana wrote:
RamaY, Every action has a reaction. The jihadis will turn back on their sponsors for not carrying thru the plan to give them a victory.

Look at the rebels attack on PRC!

Next it will be Erdogan and KSA and Gelf.

Inshallah!

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 14 Sep 2013 04:11

Also about the Russian 'shootdown' of any missiles Ground or aircraft launched has to be taken with a bag of salt as to their prowess about this. Not much track record.

habal · Post by **habal** » 14 Sep 2013 07:23

So maybe it was a highly classified drill between US Navy and Israel which even Israel didn't know about and admitted only after much prodding.

But launching non-naval assets initially makes sense only because of presence of Club/Yakhonts in the area which could have damaged US destroyers parked in the region early on which would be bad publicity and bad strategy. Also makes sense to launch missiles away from Syrian retaliatory capability. So that rules out Turkey & Jordan.

Kati · Post by **Kati** » 14 Sep 2013 09:06

Putin is also playing to other potential client states, showing them that today's Russia is a dependable big-bro, and can take care of lil' bros. May be the next lil brows that will make a bee-line for Moscow will include Lat Am states. helping those Lat Am states will be another blow to massa - too close for comfort. Putin is just giving back to massa what massa tried to do to Russia - encirclement.

habal · Post by **habal** » 14 Sep 2013 09:14

Al-Ciaida's bestest to train in US bases in Bulgaria.

"8,000 Libya Troops to train in U.S.-Bulgarian bases"

,... al-CIaeda bestest!?! 9/13/13 http://aconservativeedge.wordpress.com/ ... ian-bases/

Yeh aath hazaar se Libya mein kya hoga .. hain ? Inka assi hazaar se bhi shayad kaam nahin banega

Maybe these are not for Libya at all. But instead being trained for Syrian jeehaad. As such the numbers dying in Syria everyday are just not sustainable. There are videos galore of dead terrorists in Syria. Their numbers need to be replenished. The Jordan training camp trains only 300 at a time.

----
As a result from the constantly threatening of the civil-society the SAA and NDF formed women battalions.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxmaz1jPkbM

Chief reason mainly is that Saudi's have sent some rebels who specialize in sodomizing Christian women. They are given the excuse that these are 'earthly houris' sent down to satiate the appetites of the sacred mujafududdins .. one such saudi ape was shot dead in Al-Raqqa by a Christian woman according to reports. Pleasure yourselves viewing this.
http://www.jpnews-sy.com/ar/images/news/big/62763.jpg

This is the site world net daily that had initially smoked out Elizabeth O'bagy argybargy lady .. They've dropped another one. Citing a confidential US military document confirming that bandar's boyfriends in fact had sarin.

This lays bare the lies promulgated chiefly by 'liar-liar pants on fire' John 'why such a long face' Kerry that rebels did not possess Sarin.

http://www.wnd.com/2013/09/u-s-military ... had-sarin/

habal · Post by **habal** » 14 Sep 2013 10:22

http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2013/09 ... g-roberts/
Putin Steps Into World Leadership Role — Paul Craig RobertsSeptember 13, 2013

"...Notice that the reason Putin is being criticized is that he has blocked the obama regime from attacking Syria and slaughtering countless numbers of Syrians in the name of human rights. The stuck pigs are outraged that obama’s war has been blocked. They were so much looking forward to the mass slaughter that they believe would advance their profits and agendas.

Most of Putin’s critics are too intellectually challenged to comprehend that Putin’s brilliant and humane article has left Putin the leader of the free world and defender of the rule of law and exposed obama for what he is–the leader of a rogue, lawless, unaccountable government committed to lies and war crimes."

"...Putin is obviously more than a match for the immoral, low grade morons that Americans put into high office. However, Putin should not underestimate the mendacity of his enemies in Washington. Putin warned that the militants that Washington is breeding in the Middle East are an issue of deep concern. When these militants return to their own countries, they spread destabilization, as when extremists used by the US in the overthrow of Libya moved on to Mali."

Some satire

AMERICANS INSIST CONGRESS GO AND FIGHT IN SYRIA.

A majority of U.S. citizens believe congressional leaders in both the House and Senate must be sent to war-torn Syria immediately.

WASHINGTON—As President Obama continues to push for a plan of limited military intervention in Syria, a new poll of Americans has found that though the nation remains wary over the prospect of becoming involved in another Middle Eastern war, the vast majority of U.S. citizens strongly approve of sending Congress to Syria.

The New York Times /CBS News poll showed that though just 1 in 4 Americans believe that the United States has a responsibility to intervene in the Syrian conflict, more than 90 percent of the public is convinced that putting all 535 representatives of the United States Congress on the ground in Syria—including Senate pro tempore Patrick Leahy, House Speaker John Boehner, House Majority Leader Eric Cantor, and House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi, and, in fact, all current members of the House and Senate—is the best course of action at this time.

“I believe it is in the best interest of the United States, and the global community as a whole, to move forward with the deployment of all U.S. congressional leaders to Syria immediately,” respondent Carol Abare, 50, said in the nationwide telephone survey, echoing the thoughts of an estimated 9 in 10 Americans who said they “strongly support” any plan of action that involves putting the U.S. House and Senate on the ground in the war-torn Middle Eastern state. “With violence intensifying every day, now is absolutely the right moment—the perfect moment, really—for the United States to send our legislators to the region.”

“In fact, my preference would have been for Congress to be deployed months ago,” she added.

Citing overwhelming support from the international community—including that of the Arab League, Turkey, and France, as well as Great Britain, Iraq, Iran, Russia, Japan, Mexico, China, and Canada, all of whom are reported to be unilaterally in favor of sending the U.S. Congress to Syria—the majority of survey respondents said they believe the United States should refocus its entire approach to Syria’s civil war on the ground deployment of U.S. senators and representatives, regardless of whether the Assad regime used chemical weapons or not.

In fact, 91 percent of those surveyed agreed that the active use of sarin gas attacks by the Syrian government would, if anything, only increase poll respondents’ desire to send Congress to Syria.

Public opinion was essentially unchanged when survey respondents were asked about a broader range of attacks, with more than 79 percent of Americans saying they would strongly support sending Congress to Syria in cases of bomb and missile attacks, 78 percent supporting intervention in cases of kidnappings and executions, and 75 percent saying representatives should be deployed in cases where government forces were found to have used torture.

When asked if they believe that Sen. Rand Paul should be deployed to Syria, 100 percent of respondents said yes.

“There’s no doubt in my mind that sending Congress to Syria—or, at the very least, sending the major congressional leaders in both parties—is the correct course of action,” survey respondent and Iraq war veteran Maj. Gen. John Mill said, noting that his opinion was informed by four tours of duty in which he saw dozens of close friends sustain physical as well as emotional injury and post-traumatic stress. “There is a clear solution to our problems staring us right in the face here, and we need to take action.”

“Sooner rather than later, too,” Mill added. “This war isn’t going to last forever.”

http://www.theonion.com/articles/poll-m ... ong,33752/

rajanb · Post by **rajanb** » 14 Sep 2013 12:02

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/14/world ... d=tw-share

A significant sign of movement at the United Nations came when the Obama administration effectively took force off the table in discussions over the shape of a Security Council resolution governing any deal with Syria. Although Mr. Obama reserved the right to order an American military strike without the United Nations’ backing if Syria reneges on its commitments, senior officials said he understood that Russia would never allow a Security Council resolution authorizing force.

Fascinating, the doublespeak!

member_27444 · Post by **member_27444** » 14 Sep 2013 12:14

American leadership and media are just doing this especially in Syria
And living up to Bush uvacha

"Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."

president Bush

habal · Post by **habal** » 14 Sep 2013 13:06

News yet unreleased by Al-Ciaida media

Turkey indicts 11 linked with Syria militants caught with sarin gas

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2013/09/14 ... sarin-gas/

30 May 2013 /TODAY'S ZAMAN, İSTANBUL
Seven members of Syria's militant al-Nusra group were detained on Wednesday after police found sarin gas, which was reportedly going to be used in a bomb attack, during a search of the suspects' homes, Turkish media have reported.

Newspapers claimed on Thursday that two kilograms of sarin gas, which is usually used for making bombs and was banned by the UN in 1991, had been found in the homes of suspects detained in the southern provinces of Adana and Mersin. Twelve suspects were caught by the police on Monday. The reports claimed that the al-Nusra members had been planning a bomb attack for Thursday in Adana but that the attack was averted when the police caught the suspects. Along with the sarin gas, the police seized a number of handguns, grenades, bullets and documents during their search. Five of the suspects were released later on Thursday.

In another incident in Adana, the police received intelligence that a bomb-laden vehicle had entered Adana, the bombs being of the same type used in a recent attack in Hatay's Reyhanlı town, the Taraf daily reported on Thursday.

http://www.todayszaman.com/news-316966- ... adana.html

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 14 Sep 2013 13:10

The Price of Proxies - FP

Don't be fooled: The United States is already knee-deep in the Syrian quagmire, and the opportunity costs are disturbing.

It should be self-evident is that the fiercely anti-democratic and highly sectarian Gulf states have little interest in avoiding sectarianism and none in building democracy. It is thus baffling that so many in Washington have convinced themselves that the Saudis can be trusted to promote moderate, democratic, or secular opposition forces. Relying on their efforts means acceding to their preferred view of Syria's conflict as primarily an arena for proxy war with Iran. To paraphrase former U.S. Secretary of Defense Robert Gates, the Saudis are always willing to fight Iran to the last dead American (or Syrian). There will be no support from the Gulf Cooperation Council (GCC) for the negotiated political solution that Washington actually prefers, and likely active subversion of the Geneva 2 process, if it gets under way.

<snip>

Syria's human and strategic catastrophe deserves all the international attention that it receives, and more, but the proxy-war strategy carries much greater costs and fewer benefits than are typically acknowledged. It isn't quite the cheaper alternative to direct military strikes as advertised, has massive opportunity costs for other American interests, and rests on very shaky assumptions. Washington should spend less time worrying about how the Gulf states view its Syria strategy and more about articulating its own interests, goals, and strategy for the region.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 14 Sep 2013 15:06

i think the west should now force the saudis to go do the fighting

kit · Post by **kit** » 14 Sep 2013 15:16

Lalmohan wrote:i think the west should now force the saudis to go do the fighting

dont wish for something that nobody will be able to control .. just multiply all the terrorist activities around the globe by several magnitudes ! On a similar note the saudis will all their fancy weapons will never fight a direct war., most of their army is pakistani and weapons american.They are most likely to use indirect force via rebel groups.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 14 Sep 2013 15:18

i was being sarcastic kit saheb, i would like nothing better than to see the syrian army shred the saudi moronic wahabbi terrorists in uniform to pieces

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 14 Sep 2013 15:31

US, Russia have agreed plan on Syrian chemical weapons - Kerry

Assad’s government must submit a comprehensive list of its chemical weapons stocks within a week ahead of their transfer and destruction, US Secretary John Kerry said.

The deal worked out between Moscow and Washington on settling the Syria crisis stipulates that Syria’s chemical weapons will be rapidly destroyed.

Kerry said the Syrian government should provide the UN with full access to its chemical sites, and insisted that the plan to remove the chemical arsenal should be transparent.

Read more: http://voiceofrussia.com/news/2013_09_1 ... erry-5289/

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 14 Sep 2013 16:38

Russia could guarantee safety of chemical weapons in Russian hands.

In return Russia and UN could put boots on ground to block al-mobs entering Syria.

habal · Post by **habal** » 14 Sep 2013 17:12

CNN viewing numbers are becoming smaller every day, CNN is so biased that nobody watches it anymore.
A typical CNN offering is Christiane Amanpour who is the personification of war-mongering. She has cheer-led every major war since the balkans. A bully, a liar & a war-criminal, she would be tried in the Hague along with her managers, when rest of the world get their act together. She can make her self-indulgant rants and shed her crocodile tears in a cell next to the long-face.

" CNN averaged just 395,000 viewers in prime time for the week of May 14 "

(NY Times)

"I saw first-hand that these regime claims were lies, and I couldn’t believe CNN was making me put what I knew to be government lies into my reporting.
The Amber Lyon story is just the latest in a series of articles that expose the total Joseph Goebbels like censorship rampant in mainstream media today.

http://www.infowars.com/former-reporter ... ip-at-cnn/

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 14 Sep 2013 18:22

Regarding Christiane Amanpour yes she is a war mongerer , I saw few of her discussion on CNN and all that she has to offer was lets bomb Syria lets teach Assad a lesson , its about American values about promoting democracy ...... until one of the panelist had to tell her today the subway was shutdown due to electricity problem , lets fix our economy first.

Its for people like her that the term "Exceptional American" can be used they have the sole right to Judge and Punish others.

habal · Post by **habal** » 14 Sep 2013 19:35

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/09/c ... 96757.html

here she is trying to bully her way again.

lol

“Wait just a second — Excuse me. Excuse me. The president of the United States and the most moral country in the world based on the most moral principles in the world … cannot allow this to go unchecked …

whatever she drinks or is hooked on to, it's strong, gripping stuff.
---

Because the minute you are silent about the killing of innocents is the minute that you are part of the problem.

---
some comments:

She sure has nothing to say about the ethnic cleansing of Egyptian Copts or Christians being blow-torched in Central Africa.

Why didn't you bomb China right after Tiananmen Square. Why not strike North Korea where the President has just executed his former girlfriend ? Or else even closer home in Chicago, which sees many murders in a day, hundreds of hurt and maimed people and dreadful education levels. Or even say Detroit.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2013/09/c ... z2esPgirg4

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 14 Sep 2013 20:05

christiane amanpour is the barkha dutt of the west

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 14 Sep 2013 20:16

Lalmohan wrote:christiane amanpour is the barkha dutt of the west

Padma shri BDutt, wife of some J&K babu what I read somewhere. Don't forget Radia tapes or hostages of 26/11 terrorist attacks or Kargil war locations.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 14 Sep 2013 20:26

habal wrote:News yet unreleased by Al-Ciaida media

Turkey indicts 11 linked with Syria militants caught with sarin gas

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2013/09/14 ... sarin-gas/

30 May 2013 /TODAY'S ZAMAN, İSTANBUL
Seven members of Syria's militant al-Nusra group were detained on Wednesday after police found sarin gas, which was reportedly going to be used in a bomb attack, during a search of the suspects' homes, Turkish media have reported.

Newspapers claimed on Thursday that two kilograms of sarin gas, which is usually used for making bombs and was banned by the UN in 1991, had been found in the homes of suspects detained in the southern provinces of Adana and Mersin. Twelve suspects were caught by the police on Monday. The reports claimed that the al-Nusra members had been planning a bomb attack for Thursday in Adana but that the attack was averted when the police caught the suspects. Along with the sarin gas, the police seized a number of handguns, grenades, bullets and documents during their search. Five of the suspects were released later on Thursday.

In another incident in Adana, the police received intelligence that a bomb-laden vehicle had entered Adana, the bombs being of the same type used in a recent attack in Hatay's Reyhanlı town, the Taraf daily reported on Thursday.
http://www.todayszaman.com/news-316966- ... adana.html

So the snake is trying to bite the hand already? Nice

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 14 Sep 2013 20:27

kit wrote:
Lalmohan wrote:i think the west should now force the saudis to go do the fighting
dont wish for something that nobody will be able to control .. just multiply all the terrorist activities around the globe by several magnitudes ! On a similar note the saudis will all their fancy weapons will never fight a direct war., most of their army is pakistani and weapons american.They are most likely to use indirect force via rebel groups.

This is nothing but a myth. If push comes to shove, all these Arapian snakes can be killed within 3 months.

Lilo · Post by **Lilo** » 14 Sep 2013 21:43

Re:Christine Amanpour
Yes she being of eyeranian extraction yet deracinated completely into the mold of Massa capitalism - is similar to Bdutt.
More stark and worrying would be the role she will play when Bomb Iran op begins after sometime. She will be baying for blood while straining at the leash on public TV against people of her own extraction - to show to her masters her usefulness . Such desperate people don't own their being anymore. It moves by instinct - showing loyalty to the master at every turn. Because if master ever dumps them and deports them to their homeland (Iran) the worst possible fate awaits them.

We can expect to see similar Indian equivalents on Massa TV if a nationalist govt comes to the helm here.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 15 Sep 2013 03:21

Christine A,the "Mata-houri" of the US ,the female wannabe of Dr.Geobels.Many years ago,if I recollect right,after her bi-assed reporting,we on BR flooded CNN with complaints about "Mata-houri".We received e-mails form the channel to go easy on her and give her a break! Who watches CNN now? Al-that-Jaz,TV 5 Monde,DW and RT provide far better coverage of world affairs than CNN.

This is a great and historic triumph for Russian diplomacy and surely "Putin-the-Peacemaker" should be a hot favourite for the Nobel Prize (even if he is supplying vast qtys. of arms to the Syrian regime),just as the Yanqui ig-Nobel prize winner is funding,training and supplying vast qtys. of arms to the mercenary anti-Assad forces! In fact war-weary O'Bomber must be heaving a sigh of relief as the chalice of blood will pass him by,for in truth,limited attacks would not result in regime change,force Russia to defend and support Assad even more,and result in a dangerous widening of the conflict that could engulf Israel and lead to a full blown no-holds-barred ME conflict that could see a superpower military face-off.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/s ... apons-deal
Syria crisis: US and Russia agree chemical weapons deal
Inspectors to be given 'immediate unfettered access' with a 'comprehensive list' of weapons from Damascus within a week, says Kerry

Syria crisis: US and Russia agree chemical weapons deal

Inspectors to be given 'immediate unfettered access' with a 'comprehensive list' of weapons from Damascus within a week, says Kerry

Conal Urquhart
theguardian.com, Saturday 14 September 2013

Link to video: Syria: US and Russia agree deal to eliminate chemical weapons

The United States and Russia have agreed that Syrian chemical weapons will be placed under international control and destroyed in a process that will begin with a week.

International inspectors from the Organisation of the Prevention of Chemical weapons must be given "immediate and unfettered" access to Syrian chemical weapons, said the US secretary of state, John Kerry, while Syria must give a "comprehensive list" of its chemical weapons within one week.

Speaking at a press conference in Geneva on Saturday after three days of talks, Kerry outlined the details of the deal as Russian foreign minister, Sergei Lavrov looked on.

The deal "would allow us to expedite the elimination of Syria's chemical weapons" which would protect the Syrian people, Syria's neighbours and the world.

Kerry said the removal of chemical weapons would be "credible and verifiable" if fully implemented. "The world will now wait for the Assad regime to honour its commitments," said Kerry. "There is no room for anything other than full compliance."

Kerry said Russia and the US had agreed on the amount and type of Syria's chemical weapon arsenal and committed to assuming control of it and eliminating it in the "soonest and safest" way.

The agreement seems to remove the prospect of any strike against Syria following the chemical attacks in Damascus on 21 August which killed up to 1,300 people.

Kerry said any violations will result in "measures" from the UN security council, while Lavrov said the violations must be sent to the security council from the board of the chemical weapons convention before sanctions short of the use of force would be considered.

Kerry said the inspectors must be on the ground by November and destruction or removal of the chemical weapons must be completed by mid-2014.

Lavrov called the agreements a "decision based on consensus and compromise and professionalism."

"Any violations of procedures ... would be looked at by the security council and if they are approved, the security council would take the required measures, concrete measures," Lavrov said.

"Nothing is said about the use of force or about any automatic sanctions. All violations should be approved by the security council."

However, Kerry said that the president of the US as the commander in chief retains the right to defend the US and its interests regardless of what happens in Congress.

He said that "depending on what Assad does" the threat of force remains open either to the security council or to the US and like-minded allies. Assad's willingness to comply with the agreement will be "quickly put to the test", he added.

William Hague, the British foreign secretary welcomed the deal and tweeted, "Urgent work on implementation now to take place". But the Syrian opposition was less enthusiastic. General Selim Idris said the deal would allow Assad to escape being held accountable for killing hundreds with poison gas.

"We have told our friends that the regime has begun moving a part of its chemical weapons arsenal to Lebanon and Iraq. We told them do not be fooled," Idris told reporters in Istanbul.

"All of this initiative does not interest us. Russia is a partner with the regime in killing the Syrian people. A crime against humanity has been committed and there is not any mention of accountability."

Kerry is expected to travel to Israel to brief the Israeli prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, on Sunday before travelling to Paris to brief William Hague and Laurent Fabius, the French foreign minister.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 15 Sep 2013 04:06

"90 year old war criminal shaping Obama's foreign policy"!

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/peopl ... 15533.html

Henry Kissinger: A diplomatic colossus who is still a key influence in US amid Syria crisis

His centrality to US foreign policy goes all the way back to 1960s but for his critics, the Kissinger realipolitik has yielded much that was little short of evil
Sean O’Grady

There is a 90-year-old “war criminal” helping to frame the foreign policy of the Obama administration. Perhaps a little surprising. Until, of course, you realise that the old boy in question is Henry Kissinger, and he has been advising the White House on a subject he knows well – the Russians.

That the Americans are actively co-operating with Putin on the Syrian crisis and the eradication of Assad’s chemical weapons is as startling a development as it is a welcome one, and Kissinger, we are told, has been guiding thinking behind the scenes. Asked recently in public whether America and Russia can enjoy a fresh bout of the sort of détente with Russia he famously pioneered in the early 1970s, Kissinger replied that “it will be extremely difficult, but if they can it will be beneficial to all. Russia will gain prestige, Obama will be vindicated and Assad will be removed, and that would be the best possible outcome.” Sharp as ever, then.

Although recent developments are nowhere on the scale of the strategic arms limitations talks and treaties between the US and the Soviet Union driven by Kissinger four decades ago – the first thawing in the Cold War and the first meaningful limits placed on the nuclear arms race – it is a hopeful development. It is also one that suggests that the two superpowers are relearning the merits of another doctrine Kissinger was associated with – “realpolitik”, the recognition that where raw national interests can be made to converge through diplomacy, then lasting good can emerge.

Its apogee was the Paris Peace Accord of 1973. This, formally, ended the Vietnam War, which President Nixon and Kissinger had concluded was unwinnable. Kissinger achieved the signal honour of jointly gaining the Nobel Peace Prize for that achievement. His North Korean counterpart, Le Duc Tho, declined the award, indicating that the accords didn’t represent real peace at all – an accurate view. The American humourist Tom Lehrer quipped that Kissinger’s award represented the “death of satire”. But it did allow the US to start to extricate itself from its agony.

It had also been Kissinger who paved the way for Nixon’s visit to China in 1972. America had treated Beijing as a pariah ever since the Communists won power in 1949; now Nixon opened up diplomatic channels and laid the foundations for China to rejoin the world community, with all the momentous consequences we see all around us today.

For Kissinger’s critics, though, the Kissinger realpolitik has yielded much that was little short of evil. Christopher Hitchens, in 2001, claimed to have amassed sufficient evidence to secure prosecutions for “war crimes, for crimes against humanity, and for offences against common or customary or international law, including conspiracy to commit murder, kidnap, and torture”. This is somewhat more than hyperbole; the experience of General Pinochet has made the travels of Dr Kissinger a little more risky.

The charge sheet is extremely long, even considering the eight eventful years Kissinger was running US foreign policy: he and the CIA helped orchestrate the coup against the elected president of Chile, Salvador Allende, and his murder in 1973; he and Nixon invaded neutral Cambodia in 1970; they indiscriminately bombed civilians in that long war; connived in the Indonesians’ brutal repression in East Timor; left the Kurds to their fate at the hands of Saddam as early as 1972; the list goes on. “War criminal” and Nobel Peace Prize holder; the unique genius of Henry Kissinger.

Among the American political establishment, there is no doubt, he is held in awe, reverence even. His 90th birthday celebrations earlier this year were a glittering affair, attended by Bill and Hillary Clinton, John Kerry, James Baker, John McCain, Condoleezza Rice, George Shultz, Susan Rice, Donald Rumsfeld, Michael Bloomberg, former French President Valéry Giscard d’Estaing, David Petraeus, Barbara Walters, Wendi Deng, plus Tina Brown and Harold Evans. Senator McCain summed it up: “His legacy is the stewardship of our nation in the most difficult of times and his continued important voice on national security policies. He is a man who has a unique place in the world. I know of no individual who is more respected in the world than Henry Kissinger.”

*(What a sick joke! What about Mandela?)

Kissinger is a sort of talisman, not for the sort of foreign policy America would like to have, and sometimes attempts – the idealism of a Woodrow Wilson or a Jimmy Carter – but the kind that they believe America has to have, hard-headed and realistic. Kissinger’s doctoral thesis – “Peace, Legitimacy and the Equilibrium” – was on the policies of Metternich and Castlereagh. These two practised great-power politics in a way Kissinger was to emulate – engagement with great powers of the time to win a stable balance of power. Then, Europe; in Henry’s time, the world. Kissinger was supremely good at that; subsequent holders of the office have been less successful.

Kissinger also has an abiding appeal because he is so emblematic of the American dream. This is not so much despite his German-Jewish background, but because of it. He was born Heinz Alfred Kissinger in Bavaria in 1923, about 100 miles from where an upstart Adolf Hitler was attempting his “beer-hall putsch”. According to the US constitution, Henry could never have been President, but he could still do everything but. His family fled Nazi persecution in 1938 – as a child in New York he would cross the street if he saw a group of kids coming towards him, having been beaten up so many times back home.

The family settled in New York, and he lived out the American dream. “When you think of my life, who could have possibly have imagined that I’d wind up as Secretary of State of the greatest country in the world?” he once said. “I mean, when I couldn’t even go to German schools… When I think I was a delivery boy in New York.” That thick Germanic accent, in a voice so earthy you could grow spuds in it, is a reminder of the dream. The only trace of his Bavarian origins, bar the accent, is a lifelong affection for the Fürth football team, from his hometown.

Young Henry – he’d dropped the “Heinz” – soon began to shine academically; his progress to Harvard interrupted by wartime service: He spent 1945 hunting down members of the Gestapo. By the 1950s he had begun his long march into the upper echelons of academia.

Despite his long intimate association with Richard Nixon, Kissinger in fact goes back so far as to have been a consultant to the National Security Council under President Kennedy, though he did not last long in post after he said “I wouldn’t recognise the Baluchistan problem if it hit me in the face” during an official visit to Pakistan. (Oddly, for such a diplomat, Kissinger cannot resist himself; Bangladesh dismissed as a “basket case”, and “it’s a pity they can’t both lose” about the Iran-Iraq war).

Henry and Dick first met at an elegant New York cocktail party hosted by Clare Boothe Luce, playwright, politician and one-time US ambassador to Italy, in 1967, at her home on Fifth Avenue. Nixon had been impressed by Kissinger’s analysis of superpower politics, Nuclear Weapons and Foreign Policy, and told him so. Kissinger, was not so impressed with Nixon: “not fit to be president”. Nonetheless, Kissinger was chosen to run Nixon’s foreign policy, and so was a remarkable partnership formed; it ended with Nixon’s resignation in 1974. The night before Nixon quit, Kissinger joined him in a tearful session; “Henry,” he said, “you are not a very orthodox Jew, and I am not an orthodox Quaker, but we need to pray.”

With a reputation as a ladies’ man, Kissinger has been married twice. His first marriage, to Ann Fleischer, was stormy, and ended in divorce, after 15 years, in 1964 (his two children are from that union). Ten years later his aphrodisiacs worked on the striking Nancy, with whom he is still together. In between there were reportedly many girlfriends.

According to some this “swinger” image was a conscious effort to humanise him and secure pictures in the society gossip columns. Kissinger said “power is the ultimate aphrodisiac… They are women attracted only to my power. But what happens when my power is gone? They’re not going to sit around playing chess with me.” Oddly, they still are, and he is still a player in the great game.

A Life In Brief

Born: Heinz Alfred Kissinger, May 21 1923, Fürth, Bavaria, Germany.

Family: Son of a schoolteacher and a homemaker. Kissinger has one younger brother, Walter. He first married Ann Fleischer. They divorced in 1964. The couple had two children, Elizabeth and David. He is now married to Nancy Maginnes.

Education: City College of New York and Harvard University (MA & PhD).

Career: After returning to the US from his Second World War deployment, Kissinger enrolled into Harvard, planning to become an academic. He became a faculty member in the Department of Government, receiving tenure in 1959. His 1957 book Nuclear Weapons and Foreign Policy became a landmark text book. He went on to serve as the National Security Adviser in the Nixon administration. In 1973, he won the Nobel Peace Prize for his Vietnam War ceasefire agreement with Le Duc Tho. He was appointed chair of the National Bipartisan Commission on Central America and then of the President’s Foreign Intelligence under Reagan and Bush. His memoirs have been highly regarded, with the first of the trilogy, The White House Years, winning the National Book Award for History in 1980. He also written over 13 books on foreign policy.

He says: “We can’t be the world’s policeman but we can be the world’s last resort.”

They say: “He was the 20th century’s greatest 19th-century statesman.” Robert D. Kaplan, The Atlantic

Worth quoting that great romantic,Lord Byron.Though we now know that Cheops never built the pyramids,which were never meant to be tombs.

What is the end of Fame? 'tis but to fill
A certain portion of uncertain paper:
Some liken it to climbing up a hill,
Whose summit, like all hills', is lost in vapour;
For this men write, speak, preach, and heroes kill,
And bards burn what they call their 'midnight taper,'
To have, when the original is dust,
A name, a wretched picture, and worse bust.

What are the hopes of man? old Egypt's King
Cheops erected the first pyramid
And largest, thinking it was just the thing
To keep his memory whole, and mummy hid;
But somebody or other rummaging,
Burglariously broke his coffin's lid:
Let not a monument give you or me hopes,
Since not a pinch of dust remains of Cheops.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 15692.html
Suddenly in a hole on Syria, Obama got lucky with a way out
The President set a trap for himself with his 'red line' promise, but does he have Cameron or the Kremlin to thank for rescuing him?

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 15 Sep 2013 09:26

Syria fighters livid over Russia-US deal

The head of the opposition Free Syrian Army on Saturday rejected an agreement between the US and Russia to eliminate Syria’s chemical weapons stock by mid-2014.
“We cannot accept any part of this initiative,” Gen. Selim Idriss told reporters in Istanbul, saying it is a blow to the two-and-a-half-year uprising aiming to topple Syrian President Bashar Assad.

kit · Post by **kit** » 15 Sep 2013 12:46

Some times its better to go back in history for todays lessons

And who better to say than one of america s illustrious presidents of the past

worth reading ..so posting in full

_____________________________________________________________________________________________

Public Papers of the Presidents, Dwight D. Eisenhower, 1960, p. 1035- 1040

My fellow Americans:

Three days from now, after half a century in the service of our country, I shall lay down the responsibilities of office as, in traditional and solemn ceremony, the authority of the Presidency is vested in my successor.

This evening I come to you with a message of leave-taking and farewell, and to share a few final thoughts with you, my countrymen.

Like every other citizen, I wish the new President, and all who will labor with him, Godspeed. I pray that the coming years will be blessed with peace and prosperity for all.

Our people expect their President and the Congress to find essential agreement on issues of great moment, the wise resolution of which will better shape the future of the Nation.

My own relations with the Congress, which began on a remote and tenuous basis when, long ago, a member of the Senate appointed me to West Point, have since ranged to the intimate during the war and immediate post-war period, and, finally, to the mutually interdependent during these past eight years.

In this final relationship, the Congress and the Administration have, on most vital issues, cooperated well, to serve the national good rather than mere partisanship, and so have assured that the business of the Nation should go forward. So, my official relationship with the Congress ends in a feeling, on my part, of gratitude that we have been able to do so much together.

II.

We now stand ten years past the midpoint of a century that has witnessed four major wars among great nations. Three of these involved our own country. Despite these holocausts America is today the strongest, the most influential and most productive nation in the world. Understandably proud of this pre-eminence, we yet realize that America's leadership and prestige depend, not merely upon our unmatched material progress, riches and military strength, but on how we use our power in the interests of world peace and human betterment.

III.

Throughout America's adventure in free government, our basic purposes have been to keep the peace; to foster progress in human achievement, and to enhance liberty, dignity and integrity among people and among nations. To strive for less would be unworthy of a free and religious people. Any failure traceable to arrogance, or our lack of comprehension or readiness to sacrifice would inflict upon us grievous hurt both at home and abroad.

Progress toward these noble goals is persistently threatened by the conflict now engulfing the world. It commands our whole attention, absorbs our very beings. We face a hostile ideology -- global in scope, atheistic in character, ruthless in purpose, and insidious in method. Unhappily the danger is poses promises to be of indefinite duration. To meet it successfully, there is called for, not so much the emotional and transitory sacrifices of crisis, but rather those which enable us to carry forward steadily, surely, and without complaint the burdens of a prolonged and complex struggle -- with liberty the stake. Only thus shall we remain, despite every provocation, on our charted course toward permanent peace and human betterment.

Crises there will continue to be. In meeting them, whether foreign or domestic, great or small, there is a recurring temptation to feel that some spectacular and costly action could become the miraculous solution to all current difficulties. A huge increase in newer elements of our defense; development of unrealistic programs to cure every ill in agriculture; a dramatic expansion in basic and applied research -- these and many other possibilities, each possibly promising in itself, may be suggested as the only way to the road we wish to travel.

But each proposal must be weighed in the light of a broader consideration: the need to maintain balance in and among national programs -- balance between the private and the public economy, balance between cost and hoped for advantage -- balance between the clearly necessary and the comfortably desirable; balance between our essential requirements as a nation and the duties imposed by the nation upon the individual; balance between actions of the moment and the national welfare of the future. Good judgment seeks balance and progress; lack of it eventually finds imbalance and frustration.

The record of many decades stands as proof that our people and their government have, in the main, understood these truths and have responded to them well, in the face of stress and threat. But threats, new in kind or degree, constantly arise. I mention two only.

IV.

A vital element in keeping the peace is our military establishment. Our arms must be mighty, ready for instant action, so that no potential aggressor may be tempted to risk his own destruction.

Our military organization today bears little relation to that known by any of my predecessors in peacetime, or indeed by the fighting men of World War II or Korea.

Until the latest of our world conflicts, the United States had no armaments industry. American makers of plowshares could, with time and as required, make swords as well. But now we can no longer risk emergency improvisation of national defense; we have been compelled to create a permanent armaments industry of vast proportions. Added to this, three and a half million men and women are directly engaged in the defense establishment. We annually spend on military security more than the net income of all United States corporations.

This conjunction of an immense military establishment and a large arms industry is new in the American experience. The total influence -- economic, political, even spiritual -- is felt in every city, every State house, every office of the Federal government. We recognize the imperative need for this development. Yet we must not fail to comprehend its grave implications. Our toil, resources and livelihood are all involved; so is the very structure of our society.

In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the militaryindustrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.

We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together.

Akin to, and largely responsible for the sweeping changes in our industrial-military posture, has been the technological revolution during recent decades.

In this revolution, research has become central; it also becomes more formalized, complex, and costly. A steadily increasing share is conducted for, by, or at the direction of, the Federal government.

Today, the solitary inventor, tinkering in his shop, has been overshadowed by task forces of scientists in laboratories and testing fields. In the same fashion, the free university, historically the fountainhead of free ideas and scientific discovery, has experienced a revolution in the conduct of research. Partly because of the huge costs involved, a government contract becomes virtually a substitute for intellectual curiosity. For every old blackboard there are now hundreds of new electronic computers.

The prospect of domination of the nation's scholars by Federal employment, project allocations, and the power of money is ever present

and is gravely to be regarded.

Yet, in holding scientific research and discovery in respect, as we should, we must also be alert to the equal and opposite danger that public policy could itself become the captive of a scientifictechnological elite.

It is the task of statesmanship to mold, to balance, and to integrate these and other forces, new and old, within the principles of our democratic system -- ever aiming toward the supreme goals of our free society.

V.

Another factor in maintaining balance involves the element of time. As we peer into society's future, we -- you and I, and our government -- must avoid the impulse to live only for today, plundering, for our own ease and convenience, the precious resources of tomorrow. We cannot mortgage the material assets of our grandchildren without risking the loss also of their political and spiritual heritage. We want democracy to survive for all generations to come, not to become the insolvent phantom of tomorrow.

VI.

Down the long lane of the history yet to be written America knows that this world of ours, ever growing smaller, must avoid becoming a community of dreadful fear and hate, and be instead, a proud confederation of mutual trust and respect.

Such a confederation must be one of equals. The weakest must come to the conference table with the same confidence as do we, protected as we are by our moral, economic, and military strength. That table, though scarred by many past frustrations, cannot be abandoned for the certain agony of the battlefield.

Disarmament, with mutual honor and confidence, is a continuing imperative. Together we must learn how to compose differences, not with arms, but with intellect and decent purpose. Because this need is so sharp and apparent I confess that I lay down my official responsibilities in this field with a definite sense of disappointment. As one who has witnessed the horror and the lingering sadness of war -- as one who knows that another war could utterly destroy this civilization which has been so slowly and painfully built over thousands of years -- I wish I could say tonight that a lasting peace is in sight.

Happily, I can say that war has been avoided. Steady progress toward our ultimate goal has been made. But, so much remains to be done. As a private citizen, I shall never cease to do what little I can to help the world advance along that road.

VII.

So -- in this my last good night to you as your President -- I thank you for the many opportunities you have given me for public service in war and peace. I trust that in that service you find some things worthy; as for the rest of it, I know you will find ways to improve performance in the future.

You and I -- my fellow citizens -- need to be strong in our faith that all nations, under God, will reach the goal of peace with justice. May we be ever unswerving in devotion to principle, confident but humble with power, diligent in pursuit of the Nation's great goals.

To all the peoples of the world, I once more give expression to America's prayerful and continuing aspiration:

We pray that peoples of all faiths, all races, all nations, may have their great human needs satisfied; that those now denied opportunity shall come to enjoy it to the full; that all who yearn for freedom may experience its spiritual blessings; that those who have freedom will understand, also, its heavy responsibilities; that all who are insensitive to the needs of others will learn charity; that the scourges of poverty, disease and ignorance will be made to disappear from the earth, and that, in the goodness of time, all peoples will come to live together in a peace guaranteed by the binding force of mutual respect and love.