Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 14 Sep 2013 18:53

Country won't tolerate a divisive leader: Nitish Kumar on Narendra Modi

PATNA: The country will not tolerate a "divisive" leader, said Bihar Chief Minister Nitish Kumar Saturday, a day after BJP anointed Gujarat Chief Minister Narendra Modi as its prime ministerial candidate.

"People of the country will not tolerate or accept a leader, whose idea and policy is divisive," Nitish Kumar told media persons here.

Nitish Kumar described Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) decision to announce Modi as its prime ministerial candidate as "Vinash kale vipreet buddhi (When we face difficult times, our thinking gets warped)".

"We had sensed it three months ago that BJP will name him its PM candidate and ended our our (JD-U) alliance with BJP," Nitish Kumar said.

Nitish Kumar snapped ties with BJP in Bihar June 16 this year after Modi was made BJP's campaign chief for the 2014 Lok Sabha elections.

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/new ... 584777.cms

NikhilB · Post by **NikhilB** » 14 Sep 2013 18:54

VinodTK wrote:Narendra Modi's rise may be BJP's strongest message

This is in stark contrast to the top leaders chosen in the Congress party, where the foremost criterion today is your pedigree and second is loyalty to The Family. If your father or mother or uncle or aunt etc was in the Congress, rest assured you will be noticed; you may even become a member of Parliament or member of legislative assembly.

Very good article indeed. This is the essence of NaMo's elevation. It's strong message to everyone that BJP cares for performance and not sycophancy.

Every INC gound level Karyakarta now feel this. Those who care only for cash, daru and biryan - OK let them be in INC. For those, who consider party as their life and ideology, very nice decision by BJP to introspect and join BJP !!

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 14 Sep 2013 18:54

VinodTK wrote:

In Modi, party workers see one of their own. A man who started life as a RSS member, doing routine chores, and rising to the top simply by dint of hard work and his undeniably brilliant organisational talents.

In Modi, every worker sees what he might have been or what he can become. What mattered was his ability, not his pedigree.

This is in stark contrast to the top leaders chosen in the Congress party, y.

Well, nearly every one in BJP, including, the alleged D 4 are no different. They are all there because of their work. Modi got a leg up because he worked harder.

BJP has been like this.

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 14 Sep 2013 18:58

A black day for India: BJP nominates Modi their candidate for Prime Minister

By Kaleem Kawaja,

News media from New Delhi has reported that the central parliamentary board of BJP has nominated Naendra Modi as their candidate for India's Mrime Minister in the parliamentary election next year.

Indeed it is a black day for the ancient Indian civilization that a murderer and brutal politician who has been branded by many countries and many organizations in India as one of the biggest violators of human rights and whom many major countries have prohibited from visiting their countries, is being nominated by India's major political party as a potential top leader of the nation.

It is a day that has brought shame and disgrace to the nation that Gandhi, Nehru, Azad, Patel and countless freedom fighters established by liberating it from the colonists. That a viscous politician who spouses not only hatred but also brutality for not only religious and ethnic minorities but also those who disagree with him, is a most disgraceful occurrence since India became a free nation in 1947.

That a man who resembles the fascists and brutal oppressors of the 1930s/1940s who ravaged Europe and Asia, could be nominated by a major political party to be India's prime minister candidate is a day of disgrace.

May God save India from the spell of fascists and murderers like Modi and BJP in the years to come.

(Kaleem Khwaja is Washington DC based community activist, associated with the Association of Indian Muslims of America (AIM) and can be reached at [email protected])

http://twocircles.net/2013sep14/black_d ... witter&utm

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 14 Sep 2013 18:58

Atri wrote:
RamaY wrote:Sekhar Dupatta - walk the talk with Modi in 2004.
http://www.ndtv.com/video/player/walk-t ... 004/290236

Modi moved on since then, but sekhar dupatta stuck there with no introspection and no evolution.

Exemplified by the body language of Shekhar Gupta. Look at how he talks to an elected CM of an Indian state. Especially in the end, when he starts talking pedagogically pointing finger at NM as Justive Gupta passes judgement.. More than interview, this body-language of Gupta was most hurting.

I bow to guruji NM to have shown us unwashed Ramus and Shyamus how to handle the adversary when time is against you. It is very tough to keep calm when a two-bit person like Shekhar Gupta is giving gyan to a person like NM who has risen from grass-root and done immense sadhna to reach where he was in 2004, forget today..

Yep. My blood boiled looking at the language and body language of dupatta. Then only I noticed the fact that this was from 2004.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 14 Sep 2013 19:01

Sushupti wrote:
BJP, TDP alliance on cards
http://m.timesofindia.com/india/BJP-TDP ... 585313.cms
Shashi Shekhar@offstumped 3m

Who needs an alliance with Naidu - go for the jugular, make a bid to usurp his base

BJP state president Kishan Reddy is very vocal against this, for he reminded the public about Naidu's BJP is communal stance for past 10years.

The situation needs to play further before BJP makes up its decision public. I think Naidu need to be brought to his knees and new leadership takes over TDP and redefines it.

Naidu brings too much baggage.

Chandragupta · Post by **Chandragupta** » 14 Sep 2013 19:02

do not stereotype any community.

JohnTitor · Post by **JohnTitor** » 14 Sep 2013 19:05

Lilo wrote:ABVP rarely (you can say never) wins any student elections. That it has won in DU in Congi heartland is jaw dropping under ordinary circumstances. This shows the presence of a wave. Inspite of all the money spent by congis ( they are on the cusp of an assembly election in Delhi) - they lost. This is significant .

All those Students were on the forefront of anti rape agitations during 2013 beginning. Looks like embers are still burning.

Point taken, but I am finding it hard to link the two. Students voting in a college election does not have any bearing on state or union elections. Its like saying that if I win the student election in my university, my party will win the presidential elections in 2016.

Yes it augers well but does not mean that just because ABVP got 55% of the vote (just speculating on the figure here) BJP will get 55% of the vote in 2014, right?

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 14 Sep 2013 19:13

shonu, DU and JNU elections are very closely linked to the respective party high commands by dint of their location. the parties take them very seriously. a win in SU's is a very good base on which to work towards bigger elections. university student body elections are quite good indicators of the public mood, up to a certain extent. youth are the most enthusiastic of the opinion makers and can also strongly influence opinions of those around them.

most of these student leaders would go on to rise up the ranks in the future. lots of talent spotting goes on as well. a friend of mine who was from abvp was offered a plum youth congress post.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 14 Sep 2013 19:18

a friend of mine emailed this to me :
simplyviewpoints.wordpress.com/2013/03/04/gujarat-development-for-real-or-a-myth/

the truth about gujarat development. I have read other articles like this as well.

is there a counter article anywhere ? or maybe someone can put up a blog to counter this one point by point.

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 14 Sep 2013 19:19

^^ There's no one article for that. But there are two whole books that deal with it - one by Bibek Debroy and the other by Messrs Jagdish Bhagwati and Arvind Panagriya.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 14 Sep 2013 19:21

good to know. but asking him to read 2 fat books is not going to help.

member_27444 · Post by **member_27444** » 14 Sep 2013 19:36

The RSU radical student union supported by CPM usually dominates and the Congo backed Peggy back on this

fanne · Post by **fanne** » 14 Sep 2013 19:56

RahulM, in my rustic side there is a saying - BHains ke age bin bajana. Even if you countered, will your friend change his view? Better still, does he vote, will he vote?

If you read scripture, they come with standard warning, don't preach it to 'shad' prush, which in english may translate to - arrogant and fool. I keep away from arrogant and fools, the effort is better utilized in 'converting' who is either a fool or arrogant, not both. One way to judge, whom you want to educate is, their knowledge or view, is it driven by lack of knowledge or arrogance. Arrogance, you can dance all you want, argue all you can, present fact as many as you will, you will be bajying bin in front of a bhains. However, there are many other worthy people, who you can convince, do that please.
rgds,
fanne

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 14 Sep 2013 20:00

people make the mistake that the you speak only to the person concerned. no, you speak to everyone listening as well.

fanne · Post by **fanne** » 14 Sep 2013 20:02

Sure, in that case go ahead, remember that the audience is others and not him. As long as there is no maya, no problem!!

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 14 Sep 2013 20:05

check the body language, facial expressions. conveys a lot about each individual.

the folded hands by rajnath and modi shows respect towards an elder or a subject. where lkji is still confident keeping his hands in that in the front.. (keeping hands tied back is no confidence).

facial expressions: rajnath: success, modi: sorry bro! with all due respects, advani: you have do this to me eh!~...

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 14 Sep 2013 20:06

Sushupti wrote:A black day ..

By Kaleem Kawaja,
..

Indeed it is a black day.. that a murderer and brutal ..
..
as a potential top leader of the nation.

It is a day that has brought shame and disgrace to the nation that
..
and countless freedom fighters established by liberating it from the colonists. That a viscous politician who spouses not only hatred but also brutality for not only religious and ethnic minorities but also those who disagree with him, is a most disgraceful occurrence since .. became a free nation ..
...

May God save.. from the spell of fascists and murderers like .. the years to come.

(Kaleem Khwaja is Washington DC based community activist, associated with the Association of Indian Muslims of America (AIM) and can be reached at [email protected])
...

Does the writer know that there is no democracy in Saudi Arabia, no freedom fighters like Gandhi Nehru Azad, no political parties and there is no secularism either.

So what would he say about the King of la la land Saudi Arabia that he can blabber about from Washington DC. Just wondering only.

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 14 Sep 2013 20:20

http://www.afternoondc.in/editorial/wai ... icle_91312

Above is Tavlen's article on the Jaipur rally - which was blanketed out by paidmedia. The people's spontaneous response to namo was beyond enthusiastic, almost 'scary', in her words.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 14 Sep 2013 20:20

vishvak, That is a non -sequitor. The writer has as much right as other NRIs to comment on Indian politics. Its another matter whether he is right or not.

Chandragupta · Post by **Chandragupta** » 14 Sep 2013 20:30

Rajnath to get the post of Election Committee Head from NaMo : Sources

If true, damn good decision.

Victor · Post by **Victor** » 14 Sep 2013 20:32

Sushupti wrote:
"In case of doubt, the paper slips can be counted at the time of counting and tallied with the number of votes recorded in the voting machine's control unit."

http://www.sify.com/news/evm-paper-trai ... ajgdj.html

Ah, thank you.

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 14 Sep 2013 20:32

Of course, there is thread on secularism in India but not outside India. Since NRI has to lecture and tell lies about a political party he does not vote for. Being an NRI isn't he expected to know better - like secularism in USA

) or Saudi

)

But we have to read the almost abusive language from epitome of secularists for elected CM just because he is an NRI when he himself may not be secular himself - one has to adhere to bare minimum standards which he seem to not have.

It will be much better for India to have VISA regime where only people who have done substantial work on actual secularism and not pseudo secularism are given VISA.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 14 Sep 2013 20:35

A few observations that needs to be countered in the SM and MSM space.

1) The narrative that has gained traction, after being absent for a few years, is that RSS controls BJP and has had its ways. The media has been helping construct that narrative. When a BJP supporter or spokesperson points out how INC workers and party men look for instructions from "High Command", they are immediately reminded how RSS dictates things to BJP. Hence it is an ==.

Counter: RSS being an organization has its framework and culture of people arising to the top. It is like a Board in a Company. After ideas churn, a decision is made and that is communicated to BJP. Whereas, in the case of INC, it is the ideas from one Family. The High Command is really one Family. It is better to be controlled by a cultural organization than ONE family. What would you prefer a Board recommending ideas or ONE family recommending ideas?

2) BJP is still sending ONE person on the TV. Every now and then, you would find ONE BJP person and a BJP sympathizer. Yesterday on Times Now, we had just Smrithi on the show surrounded by a gang who were antagonist to BJP and Modi. Both anchors were already creating wrong narratives and making false ==, on top of it if you have a gang who are not objective and neutral, it paints BJP in a bad light.

Counter: BJP should insist that there are at least 2 people in all these panel discussions, who are known sympathizers.

3) Media keeps talking about Modi being 'anointed'. For crying out aloud, Modi rose from the ranks.

Counter:
a) Modi should spend time talking about how he rose from the ranks, he should spend 10 mins talking about his past and the work he did. There is no point in being silent, and making cursory remarks about it. He has to narrate his history, he has all good things for him. Spend 10-15 mins in a speech connecting the different dots of his history. People will listen. Then BJP spokesperson can then summarize these during the TV panel interviews.
b) Modi was 'selected' by the BJP cadre. Right from Rajnath to other leaders have acknowledged the fact that Modi has the support of cadres. Sure, INC can say the same thing for Rahul. They can legitimately claim Rahul has the support of INC workers. However, in the case of Modi, he has 10+ years of being a leader of a State and has several years of organizational experience. Rahul has just the organizational experience. So Modi was not really 'anointed'. Just like a CEO is picked, the Board picked because he was the best for the party and the country.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 14 Sep 2013 20:38

RamaY wrote:
BJP state president Kishan Reddy is very vocal against this, for he reminded the public about Naidu's BJP is communal stance for past 10years.

The situation needs to play further before BJP makes up its decision public. I think Naidu need to be brought to his knees and new leadership takes over TDP and redefines it.

Naidu brings too much baggage.

I would like NaMo to go alone in united AP and see Congis decimated and TDP humbled. May be too much daydreaming. But NaMo doesn't need someone with aspirations of Sickular credentials and is likely to jump ship at the hint of tough going. All turd frontee and congis should be shunned .

Lilo · Post by **Lilo** » 14 Sep 2013 20:45

@RanaAyyub Sad to see the nuts and bolts man of the party relegated to isolation. Learnings for Modi. Nothing is permanent in politics

Just can't understand these psec journos suddenly treating Advani (The original manifestation of political Hindutva) as some Sickular God. I mean they may have their various paid reasons to take that line... But do they really think public is stupid to not see the hypocrisy when they revert back to their Psec Islamist - "Islam khatre mein hein" mold - in other articles while attributing all possible evil connotations to Hindutva as an ideology ?

yvijay · Post by **yvijay** » 14 Sep 2013 20:50

Sushupti wrote:
BJP, TDP alliance on cards

http://m.timesofindia.com/india/BJP-TDP ... 585313.cms

Shashi Shekhar@offstumped 3m

Who needs an alliance with Naidu - go for the jugular, make a bid to usurp his base

I second that. The biggest mistake BJP did in AP wa,s making an alliance with TDP. CBN used the alliance well to get the funds and developed his party but, completely marginalized the BJP. They have yet to recover from that.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 14 Sep 2013 20:57

Lilo wrote:
@RanaAyyub Sad to see the nuts and bolts man of the party relegated to isolation. Learnings for Modi. Nothing is permanent in politics
Just can't understand these psec journos suddenly treating Advani (The original manifestation of political Hindutva) as some Sickular God. I mean they may have their various paid reasons to take that line... But do they really think public is stupid to not see the hypocrisy when they revert back to their Psec Islamist - "Islam khatre mein hein" mold - in other articles while attributing all possible evil connotations to Hindutva as an ideology ?

A better response to RanaAyyub is.

Yes, nothing is permanent. LKA was Hindutva until Modi came on to stage and now he is secular. Similarly Modi will be secular too when another leader comes on to stage. What is permanent though is Congress, Medua and Leftist intellectuals' anti-nationalistic sycophancy.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 14 Sep 2013 21:04

If Govardhan Zadaphia can leave BJP and be acceptable in Congiland then the artificial constructs like Sickular and Kommunal has no meaning. Till BJP got big numbers , everyone was Kommunal. Then it was ABP who was Sikular and LKA who was Kommunal. Thereafte , Now LKA is Sickular and rest are Kommunal.

Seeit is all relative. One needs to find a More Kommunal man then NaMo would , obviously, look Sickular to a Congis.

No need to have truck with those who want to inherit have sickular mantle. Development agenda will finish all these sickularoaches.

It is a Sick joke on the nation. The earlier people realise the better it would be.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 14 Sep 2013 21:07

If BJP is successful and delivers on governance and is re-elected, it will automatically create a huge group of people who automatically prefer it and can discern truth from fiction. Then these islamists like rana ayyub, are finished. Their screeds will be known for what they are.

Lilo · Post by **Lilo** » 14 Sep 2013 21:12

If Naidu agrees to change TDP manifesto into something which at the minimum doesn't contradict the manifesto of Bjp and preferably is in agreement with major themes of Bjp manifesto , Bjp-Tdp must have a prepoll alliance. And Naidu can get the benefit of riding on the coat tails of NaMo's popularity (inspite of himself not thinking up and propagating his own original common "vision" for the state which spans the caste fissures ravaging his people and which has the capacity of healing them enough by election time). Naidu has frankly been a disappointment on this front inspite of so much time sitting in opposition - with virtually nothing else to do.

If he can't agree to this and yet wants a prepoll alliance , Bjp should not accept and should only be amenable for any postpoll alliance based on some center state quid pro quo. Naidu is the one who went psec on Bjp - he should do prayischit if he wants to come back to its fold. Tdp manifesto must reflect this if he wants a prepoll alliance.

Above being my personal view. I can accept if modi goes by his "no stone turned to win" to woo Naidu (even if he shamelessly(like niku once used to do) plays hard to get)

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 14 Sep 2013 21:18

Lilo garu,

It is Bhajapa's turn to play hard to get and they are. What they can do as part of the deal is to negotiate a leadership change in TDP, which is much needed for it to survive in current chaos.

There are many ways to do that. But let's see how these players play.

For example:
- a section of NTR family joins Bhajapa
- leadership change in TDP
- a staged revolt in TDP
- a staged revolt in Congress's TDP community that comes to Bhajapa

And so on...

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 14 Sep 2013 21:32

Rahul M wrote:a friend of mine emailed this to me :
simplyviewpoints.wordpress.com/2013/03/04/gujarat-development-for-real-or-a-myth/

the truth about gujarat development. I have read other articles like this as well.

is there a counter article anywhere ? or maybe someone can put up a blog to counter this one point by point.

A couple of them here:
1) http://centreright.in/2012/06/a-statist ... jSFLMbBOSo
2) http://www.niticentral.com/2013/02/20/n ... 48636.html

It might upset some of the Modi supporters, but in politics and election cycle everybody stretches the truth, puffs up their resume ityadi. So Modi being a politician, in the race, is likely to have compared things favorably to him

And truth be told, other States are not all sitting idle too. Leaders across the country have done their part for their States. So it will be unfair to them to cite that ONLY Modi has kept up with the progress of his State, thereby implying all the States are lagging behind. So when a narration is thus painted, it will be easy to pinprick some of Modi's points.

Modi has focused on several areas of progress, and not restricted to just one area - say like what CBN did in AP that cost him future elections. When comparing BJP and INC, BJP thus stands better in terms of its CMs enabling their States to progress.

Unfortunately, if Modi is presented as a good CM, organizer and a leader with vision to keep the country marching forward - he will not get votes and enough MPs to form government. Hence, the campaign has to use some hyperbole to convince people - and these hyperbole will be used by the opposition to dismiss and burst the Modi bubble. They will strive to prove Modi is a liar, and is all hot air. It is part of the election campaign.

To me the 'Gujarat Model' is not these numbers, but the grand narration of a leader focusing on development and the betterment of people. I will acknowledge there are other States and Leaders, who have equally done well as Modi. Some states are just lucky to inherit a system that can handle a bad leader - like TN. Modi has moved the discussions of issues to a next level in Indian democracy.

Like in Ramayana and Mahabhrarata, one might be able to discuss some of the 'wrongs' of Rama and Krishna; and point out their unfairness or un-leader-like qualities. However, individual points have to be connected for the big picture. So tactically, one might have to acknowledge that Modi did good on some growth metrics, but not as good as other states, but then has to point to the big picture.

Victor · Post by **Victor** » 14 Sep 2013 21:36

Rahul M wrote:a friend of mine emailed this to me :
simplyviewpoints.wordpress.com/2013/03/04/gujarat-development-for-real-or-a-myth/

the truth about gujarat development. I have read other articles like this as well.

is there a counter article anywhere ? or maybe someone can put up a blog to counter this one point by point.

The comments section itself has some pretty good counters. Agreed that such articles attacking Modi's record need to be challenged regardless and it would help to have a go-to source for rebuttals.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 14 Sep 2013 21:39

thanks a lot swamy saar for that useful contribution.

victor, I can myself write a decent rebuttal but I dont have the time. some obvious points f.e
>> comparing small state data with large state data
>> ignoring low base effect
>> ignoring that much of the state GDP is simply central funds for some states
etc

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 14 Sep 2013 22:26

Rahul M wrote:thanks a lot swamy saar for that useful contribution.

victor, I can myself write a decent rebuttal but I dont have the time. some obvious points f.e
>> comparing small state data with large state data
>> ignoring low base effect
>> ignoring that much of the state GDP is simply central funds for some states
etc

I do not know what to make of that smilie at the end of your sentence. Does it imply my 2 links were not that useful? Anyways, some more info for you:

1) http://pragmaticutopian.wordpress.com/2 ... velopment/
2) http://sonaliranade.com/2012/07/07/the- ... rformance/ {the author grudgingly acknowledges the growth}

So where is the case for superlative performance from Gujarat under Modi’s stewardship? At best its performance is line with or slightly superior to that of its peer states. Note that Gujarat and Maharashtra have vied for the top slot before economic reforms, after economic reforms but before Modi, and after reforms, after Modi. Should Gujarat’s slightly superior performance be attributed to Modi? If so who gets the credit in Maharashtra or Tamil Nadu? Not to mention Bihar.

3) http://deshgujarat.com/2013/02/26/real- ... velopment/ {it has numbers, charts and graphs....will make statisticians happy}
4) http://www.firstpost.com/economy/is-the ... 83390.html {This is from Jaggi, First Post, answers some points placed by Business Standard}
5) http://gujarattruth.wordpress.com/2012/ ... -modi-era/

The way I see it, sure there are other CMs and leaders who are as good or better than Modi. However in the General Elections, it is now Modi vs Rahul or Modi vs a UPA leader or Modi vs 3rd Front Leader. And people have to elect from the available options. Sure there might be humans faster than Usain Bolt, but it is Usain who runs in the competitions and beats them. If somebody wants to claim he is faster than Usain, let me enter the competition.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 14 Sep 2013 22:32

au contraire saar, they were quite useful. I am a simpul man, I dont go for complex smilie circus.
thx again.

abhik · Post by **abhik** » 14 Sep 2013 22:33

Sushupti wrote:
BJP, TDP alliance on cards

http://m.timesofindia.com/india/BJP-TDP ... 585313.cms

It was TDP which stopped the last NDA government from creating Telangana. If Telangana is not a done deal by the next LS election, BJP will be in tight spot. It will have to choose between TDP's support or rescind on the Telangana "in 100 days" promise and face the consequences there.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 14 Sep 2013 22:49

stats are important measures, but if we change certain factors or use multiple measures to arrive at a point, then the whole stats get invalidated. e.g: if we include industrial performance or output as a measure of knowledge into literacy rate, then kerala might be low.. so, give a literacy rate, what is it industrial production, against similar ratio with gujarat is what matters.

btw, on that count amma state does a good job.. but amma state is under utilizing its potentials and capabilities. it needs to think like singapore.

Saral · Post by **Saral** » 14 Sep 2013 22:54

Lurker on this thread.. Any knowledge re Namo's health. That's potentially a bigger unknown than assassination attempts, is it not? Sleeping only 5 hours per day is a big heart attack risk factor. Also he can definitely lose some weight (gradually). Hope he is not one of those types who doesn't get checkups because he's feeling fine (sometimes even mahdis misunderestimate their self-health)