Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 18 Sep 2013 06:10

http://www.thehindu.com/news/internatio ... epage=true
what makes brazil think poodledoms and unkil infested europeans would not allow unkill to hack into brazil? and this after investing huge amount?

i would think about encryption techs.

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 18 Sep 2013 07:26

Raja Bose wrote:^^^Android is the iPhunwa of the poor sire, not WP Its not a coincidence that Sammy designed their smartphunwas to look like the iPhunwa. It was a smart move.

I was talking about class difference, but about insignificant number of people using WP. Android was always for the poor, open source was always about bringing a mobile OS to the masses.

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 18 Sep 2013 07:30

nachiket wrote:^^That's why I mentioned the Google edition of the HTC One. It comes with stock Android (same as on the Nexus devices but with better hardware). No carrier bloatware, no TouchWiz/Sense stupidity, more free space, better speed and battery life and quicker updates. Stock Android is actually a really good OS. Even better than the current version of iOS, I would say. Too bad it is available in so few devices, and none of them subsidized.

The HTC One GPE does not support 1700 MHz HSPA+. The better phone is the Sammy S4 GPE. See AnandTech reviews of the GPE devices.

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 18 Sep 2013 08:23

Mort - is that a big issue? from what i read, it is only TMo that uses 1700 MHz HSPA+ and I won't be on TMo. Tell me if i am wrong.

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 18 Sep 2013 09:13

^^^I didn't know where you would be and what carrier you would be using. I am currently using an HTC One, not GPE, and it has a good industrial design, but it suffers from a poor camera and weak battery life. I have a large family in the US and India and prefer Samsung flagship phones as I can replace the battery and put a 32 or 64 GB card in it for movies and music, then give it to another family member loaded with all the goodies.

My personal opinion is that you should consider the iPhone 5 or 5s.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 18 Sep 2013 09:18

which has more lte coverage?

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 18 Sep 2013 10:04

Mort - definitely not iphones. tired old eyes can't take that small screen anymore. time to move on.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 18 Sep 2013 10:04

Mort Walker wrote:Android was always for the poor, open source was always about bringing a mobile OS to the masses.

You really think the open source part of Android has anything to do with it being so widely adopted by device manufacturers and in the end consumers?

Lilo · Post by **Lilo** » 18 Sep 2013 10:15

Gus ji,

Then you can also consider Phablets like Sammy Note 3 or 2
Or just go with Galaxy S4 Google play edition .

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 18 Sep 2013 10:49

Raja Bose wrote: You really think the open source part of Android has anything to do with it being so widely adopted by device manufacturers and in the end consumers?

No, that is because there was no other alternative for manufacturers who wanted to come out with iPhone competitors. Apple wasn't going to let others use iOS, Windows Mobile was a turd and Symbian was useless for touchscreen phones. Android was the only option.

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 18 Sep 2013 11:55

Marten wrote:Nachiket, there was one really superb option that didn't fly too high thanks to the achutiyanandans(TM- Mahdi) at Ho-Packers.

WebOS. Yup. But that's a whole different story. And yechpee fellows weren't the only ones responsible for its downfall were they?

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 18 Sep 2013 22:08

nachiket wrote:
Raja Bose wrote: You really think the open source part of Android has anything to do with it being so widely adopted by device manufacturers and in the end consumers?
No, that is because there was no other alternative for manufacturers who wanted to come out with iPhone competitors. Apple wasn't going to let others use iOS, Windows Mobile was a turd and Symbian was useless for touchscreen phones. Android was the only option.

Exactly correct. Android was there at the right place, right time.

All this PR that Android was magically successful becoz it is open source is a pile of dung. In fact any manufacturer a$$ enough to use Android as an open source OS will never be able to push out competitive commercial devices on time unless they fork like Takla Co. and then spend tons of resources patching stuff up on a continuous basis. This is simply becoz all the OHA partners especially the ones like Sammy with whom Chacha has special MoUs get access to the latest source much before it is made available to others and much much before it is open sourced. So they have all the time-to-market advantage and if you don't have that access and solely depend on open source Android you are DoA. Calling Android open source is great PR but from a device manufacturer's PoV it really is no different from a closed source OS.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 18 Sep 2013 22:10

Marten mullah, a big chunk of WebOS team should be in ChromeOS now.

member_20292 · Post by **member_20292** » 18 Sep 2013 22:30

Raja Bose wrote:^^^They get some leeway during the approval process in the type of HW they put in for the carrier branded phones. Others don't even get that luxury. Carriers are the ultimate evil in the US telecom industry.

And on top of that, Verizon just became a fully American corp, buying out Vodafone's stake.

And ATnT, the most chor company, also does very well.

Now. Was there an A Raja Bush in the US, who did some high class scam and made this place and market a quadropoly?

member_20292 · Post by **member_20292** » 18 Sep 2013 22:39

Gus wrote: i browse a lot, .....

This means: LARGE screen which is comfortable even in bright light. And, Opera Mobile browser.

member_20292 · Post by **member_20292** » 18 Sep 2013 22:50

WebOS was awesome at multitasking and had a great cards system.

ultra stable too, unlike android.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 18 Sep 2013 23:19

^^Stock Android is pretty stable...almost as close to iOS/WP. Its the device manufacturer crap which causes the pakiness but then without that allowance Android wouldn't be so popular in the first place. Catch-22 onlee.

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 19 Sep 2013 01:02

Raja Bose wrote:[Exactly correct. Android was there at the right place, right time.

All this PR that Android was magically successful becoz it is open source is a pile of dung. In fact any manufacturer a$$ enough to use Android as an open source OS will never be able to push out competitive commercial devices on time unless they fork like Takla Co. and then spend tons of resources patching stuff up on a continuous basis. This is simply becoz all the OHA partners especially the ones like Sammy with whom Chacha has special MoUs get access to the latest source much before it is made available to others and much much before it is open sourced. So they have all the time-to-market advantage and if you don't have that access and solely depend on open source Android you are DoA. Calling Android open source is great PR but from a device manufacturer's PoV it really is no different from a closed source OS.

Bose boss,

Why didn't Palm license there OS to other vendors? HP after acquisition probably wanted to follow Apple model. But more importantly what is stopping BBRY from following Google's model?

negi · Post by **negi** » 19 Sep 2013 01:04

iOS 7 is out servers are being overloaded with fanboi requests.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 19 Sep 2013 01:15

Satya_anveshi wrote: Why didn't Palm license there OS to other vendors? HP after acquisition probably wanted to follow Apple model. But more importantly what is stopping BBRY from following Google's model?

Palm was always vertical so it probably never even entered their minds to do so. Kala Jamun can follow Chacha's model but why exactly would HTC or Sammy or LG or Nokia (PBUH) make their device? Instead I think they are doing the right thing by moving away from a device centric to a cross platform service offering with Messenger on iOS/Android etc. Services is where the money is, though now it does leave them at mercy of the platform owner such as Chacha.

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 19 Sep 2013 01:26

Raja Bose wrote: Kala Jamun can follow Chacha's model but why exactly would HTC or Sammy or LG or Nokia (PBUH) make their device?

What good is it doing to the likes of HTC, Sony, LG on the Android bandwagon? Each of these put in pretty significant efforts to taste at least a bit of Samsung's success with no luck.

Won't aligning with Kala Jamun give them some leverage to differentiate their offerings? Given the state Kala Jamun is, I doubt if the terms will be any different than Android if not better?

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 19 Sep 2013 01:29

Part of android success is due to open source. You have to recognize that androids dominance is due to manufacturers like Meizu, Xiaomi, Micromax, pantech and numerous other vendors you havent heard of from whom you can pick up a $100 android phone unlocked in Walmart. If android is not open source how are you doing to sell the OS to these people? You can either compile the OS yourself and distribute binaries (which is a pain because everyone uses a slightly different SoC) or you can sign 1000 NDAs and try to enforce them and make sure nobody runs away with the source. Making it opensource and freely available also means hardware manufacturers don't need to have huge OS teams. Take one look at the UI of Samsung, Motorola, Nokia dumbphones to understand why this is a good thing. Secondly android kernel is Linux -- one of the reasons why the OS was built so fast. Being at the right place at the right time also means you should be ready. Linux enabled that. That means now if android is not opensourced, the architecture would be complicated with kernel parts opensourced and other parts not open sourced.

Coming to Sammy getting early access and beating others to the market - where did you hear it from ? Some unverifiable "chaiwallah" or because you think so? If Sammy is getting early access what about Motorola ? Do they get early access too? If not, that sounds strange. If so, that sounds strange too. Also if all OHA members get early access then why this song and dance about PDK for OEMs?

Also I don't understand how takla "forked" android. Upcoming kindle fires are going to be running android 4.2. Takla simply has added a new skin and content store on top of android and taken out chacha services. How is this any special/different than other android OEMs? Takla's success is not due to "forking" android or going through some non open source model it is because (a) the tablets are cheap (b) you get stuff like amazon prime instant videos, free books though kindle lending library and a whole bunch of other sweeteners. These make the tablet a good value especially if you are a prime member anyway. What does free books and movies got to do with forking android ?

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 19 Sep 2013 01:34

RB, do you think Kala Jamun will survive? I thought its days were numbered when all the YumBeeYay's ditched it to become Appil fanboys.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 19 Sep 2013 02:23

Satya_anveshi wrote:
Raja Bose wrote: Kala Jamun can follow Chacha's model but why exactly would HTC or Sammy or LG or Nokia (PBUH) make their device?
What good is it doing to the likes of HTC, Sony, LG on the Android bandwagon? Each of these put in pretty significant efforts to taste at least a bit of Samsung's success with no luck.

Won't aligning with Kala Jamun give them some leverage to differentiate their offerings? Given the state Kala Jamun is, I doubt if the terms will be any different than Android if not better?

But Kala Jamun has nothing unique to offer except their one single service. And now that service is available on other platforms. Unless they come up with some other useful service, its a losing battle.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 19 Sep 2013 02:56

Anujan wrote:Part of android success is due to open source. You have to recognize that androids dominance is due to manufacturers like Meizu, Xiaomi, Micromax, pantech and numerous other vendors you havent heard of from whom you can pick up a $100 android phone unlocked in Walmart.

Actually that is Lahori logic at best. Android's dominance is not becoz of Meizu, Xiaomi and the "others" but due to the larger members of the OHA especially Samsung. And Android was already dominant way before people even knew what Meizu, Xiaomi, Micromax were.

Anujan wrote: If android is not open source how are you doing to sell the OS to these people? You can either compile the OS yourself and distribute binaries (which is a pain because everyone uses a slightly different SoC) or you can sign 1000 NDAs and try to enforce them and make sure nobody runs away with the source.

This is also Lahoric logic. Every member of the OHA signs a whole bunch of these agreements - its not like they can indulge in free for all....just ask Motorola, I bet their mush is still hurting from the smacking Chacha gave them some years back for Skyhook.

Remember the e-mails exchanged between Chacha's Android execs?

And it is a misconception to think that closed source means the source is not provided to partners and somehow open source does. How do you think Symbian development used to be done amongst Symbian foundation members with a gazillion different hardware platforms, UI frameworks and despite the fact Symbian was closed source? The partners just don't get some binary blob, they actually get access to the source becoz without that you cannot do development worth $hit. Like I said, from a device manufacturer's perspective there is no practical difference between a closed source mobile platform and an open sourced one. One has to understand how mobile device development works instead of going by PR droppings.

Making it opensource and freely available also means hardware manufacturers don't need to have huge OS teams.

Whether the HW manufacturer is using a closed source platform or an open source one from a 3rd party (Symbian, Mickey, Chacha), how does it have any correlation to the size of its in-house OS team?

Unless you think using a closed source OS means the manufacturer has to reverse engineer the OS.

Anujan wrote: Coming to Sammy getting early access and beating others to the market - where did you hear it from ? Some unverifiable "chaiwallah" or because you think so?

Actually this is 1st hand info coz I have seen it.

Anujan wrote: If Sammy is getting early access what about Motorola ? Do they get early access too?

Funny you should say that. When Motorola caught Chacha's ire during the whole Skyhook nautanki, it was threatened with getting blocked from early access. Go figure.

Anujan wrote: Also I don't understand how takla "forked" android. Upcoming kindle fires are going to be running android 4.2. Takla simply has added a new skin and content store on top of android and taken out chacha services. How is this any special/different than other android OEMs?

Takla is not a member of OHA and only gets access to the latest version of Android once its open sourced whereas the OHA members have early access to it and hence, the time-to-market advantage. After all we are talking commercial competitiveness here not hobby projects where Android is put in a toaster. In Takla's case unless something drastically changes in Android between one version and the next, it doesn't affect them coz they have the manpower and money to create a totally custom UX on top of Android the OS and don't care for Android the Google service platform. If GB had that capability in 2011, they would have done so too and that would have been the only way they would have gone with Android given Chacha expressly forbade them from using their own LBS platform if they joined OHA.

And Android development is not done by Chacha in public...every version is developed in private and then the source is released once its ready. Can I go today and check out from the repo the latest nightly build of the next version of Android Chacha is building?

This is different from what open source typically means (example, say Mozilla) where the development itself happens in public view. And by the time the source is released to the public (or to Takla), the OHA members have already had time to update their custom skins/UI/apps and are ready to market, the non-OHA members who solely rely on the open sourcing are not. That is the difference.

---

And in other news, the long-time head of AOSP, a guy I have interacted with in the past, Jean-Baptiste Quéru has quit becoz of his doubts on the "open source" nature of Android going forward.

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 19 Sep 2013 03:10

And by the time the source is released to the public (or to Takla), the OHA members have already had time to update their custom skins/UI/apps and are ready to market

This doesn't seem to work in practice. Sammy and co. take a while to come up with handsets running the latest Android version, after it is released by Chacha. Sammy's flagship still runs on 4.2. Only the Google Play Edition started getting the 4.3 update that too in August. 4.3 was released sometime in July.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 19 Sep 2013 03:20

^^^They wont just randomly put the latest and greatest if it cant meet the software freeze for a particular model. That kind of stuff works when the product is in the cloud, not when its a physical device in the hands of the consumer. GS4 was announced in April no?

The Google Play edition will get the latest version of Android faster as it is stock Android, no Sammy TouchWiz/S-crap to update, test and flog in-house injineers with. If all Android vendors used stock Android (like Mort tau's wetdream) then all this delay would go away but then so would Android's security in numbers. It would accelerate the dominance of a single device vendor (Samsung) even further and put Chacha even more at the mercy of Sammy.

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 19 Sep 2013 03:30

Raja Bose wrote: If all Android vendors used stock Android (like Mort tau's wetdream) then all this delay would go away but then so would Android's security in numbers. It would accelerate the dominance of a single device vendor (Samsung) even further and put Chacha even more at the mercy of Sammy.

Why? I think a lot of people choose Sammy phones over the others because they are taken in by Sammy's marketing of their new gimmicks. Take them away and the only differentiating features are the hardware and build quality which is not Sammy's strong suit. It would actually be a good thing for Chacha. Android would finally lose its reputation for being unstable and not receiving timely updates which are the biggest reasons for not buying Android phones. But there is no way for them to enforce this.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 19 Sep 2013 04:40

For Chacha going stock would be a good thing from a UX perspective but a bad thing in terms of its primary goal, which is to seed as many Android devices as possible. For Chacha Android is a service platform so more devices out there, the merrier. Not allowing differentiation would lessen that number as smaller players would be get squeezed out ruthlessly.

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 19 Sep 2013 05:28

Raja Bose wrote:For Chacha going stock would be a good thing from a UX perspective but a bad thing in terms of its primary goal, which is to seed as many Android devices as possible. For Chacha Android is a service platform so more devices out there, the merrier. Not allowing differentiation would lessen that number as smaller players would be get squeezed out ruthlessly.

Why would Chacha care who makes the phones as long as more people buy Android phones? And if the UX is better (and consistent), more people will buy Android phones. Whether they buy them from Sammy or someone else doesn't matter to Chacha.

Besides, like I said things which really matter will differentiate the phones - hardware design and build quality, camera, speed, battery life, screen size and quality, etc. These things won't be offset by a stupid UI skin, lack of updates and carrier bloatware as they are now. Certainly an advantage for Chacha. But they don't have the muscle to enforce this.

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 19 Sep 2013 06:11

Raja Bose wrote: And in other news, the long-time head of AOSP, a guy I have interacted with in the past, Jean-Baptiste Quéru has quit becoz of his doubts on the "open source" nature of Android going forward.

And you know that for sure?

FYI, JBQ was never the head of AOSP.

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 19 Sep 2013 06:46

There are reasons why I think "Sammy gets early access to Android" is a pile of Nandi droppings

1. How many abduls here know what version SG4 is running? Note 3 is running? HTC One? Moto X? LG G2? .... well I thought so. If a bunch of technophiles dont know, how do you expect users to know? Okay now tell me what new features Android 4.3 has over Android 4.2? ... well I thought so too.

2. 40% of Phones out there are running gingerbread. That is 2.3. Way way way behind 4.3. Users dont seem to care.

So now tell me -- is running "latest OS" really a selling point among users? Especially when everyone slathers their skin on top so the 3-4 "features" of the latest OS doesnt matter anyway? Kindle was running 2.3, people bought it in millions. Now tell me what OS kindle runs now? Why are people buying it in he millions if OS matters so much?

Okay now lets look at something else.

3. "Latest OS" is important only from an Apps point of view. Sammy, HTC all plaster a skin on top. If they come out with Latest OS and there are no apps on it, how does it matter anyway? And app developers develop after they have their hands on Latest OS and after it has significant market penetration. Just because Sammy put 4.3 on SG4 does not mean all app developers will make 4.3 exclusive apps. On top of it, a few OEMs running the latest OS and others a version or two behind it, just fragments the ecosystem. Then you have to hope that these OEMs upgrade their phones to the latest OS when they get "delayed access" as you had suggested. If you are a OS maker, is that what you want?

4. All OEMs have been updating at roughly the same time. Some of them update many models, some of them update a few. But the latest OS they run have been progressing at about the same time. Pray tell me what Sammy has done with its alleged "early access"? Their rate of installing latest versions is roughly in line with what other vendors do and much after the sources and binaries are posted. Version 4.3 was posted when new Nexus 7 came out. How many OEMs have upgraded? SG S4 non GPE is still at 4.2.2. What exactly are they getting here? FFS Cyanogen mod fellas are much faster than any OEMs in putting out latest ROMs with latest OS!! Are you now going to tell me that Cyanogenmod has "early access"?!

5. There no info out there, not one, which alleges preferential treatment of OEMs vis-a-vis android releases (except for Nexus devices). And zero OEMs have complained so far. Are you telling me that you are privy to some deep dark secret the rest of the internet and OEMs are not aware of? Remember that these OEMs have to have their phone certified by carriers and carriers have house-branded phones too, like Verizon's Droid.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 19 Sep 2013 07:29

Marten wrote:Nachiket, there was one really superb option that didn't fly too high thanks to the achutiyanandans(TM- Mahdi) at Ho-Packers.
That was the best of the lot.

RB mullah, do you know any namesake of yours who worked at Palm?

Marten Mullah, funny you spoke of Palm, coz I am sitting next to Jon Rubinstein right now at a Computer History Museum donor event.

Added: The museum director just introduced him as Jon Rosenberg

---

Anujan ullah, when I said Sammy gets early access to Android source code, I was not stating an opinion, I was stating a fact as directly observed by me. And are you telling me that both OHA and non-OHA members get access to the latest version of Android at the same time? If you believe that, I gotta bridge in Howrah to sell ya.

And its immaterial whether users care or not, this is not about users, its about device manufacturers and whether it matters to them whether the platform is open sourced or not. Like I said, it doesn't. In fact they prefer its doesn't follow the OSF model otherwise it will be a mess like MeeGo. Like I have said many moons ago, true open source and commercial don't mix.
BTW JBQ managed AOSP as far as I know so I dunno what you mean by he was not heading AOSP.

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 19 Sep 2013 07:30

JBQ was the repository maintainer of AOSP. In charge of the AOSP git tree. He did not manage or head anything.

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 19 Sep 2013 08:25

Raja Bose wrote:But Kala Jamun has nothing unique to offer except their one single service. And now that service is available on other platforms. Unless they come up with some other useful service, its a losing battle.

Bose boss, pl humor me: In what way Android supports/enables differentiation for vendors that BeeBee disallows? Security and ability to enter enterprise space may be some additional benefits for vendors.

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 19 Sep 2013 08:32

Marten wrote:Nachiket, there was one really superb option that didn't fly too high thanks to the achutiyanandans(TM- Mahdi) at Ho-Packers.
That was the best of the lot.

RB mullah, do you know any namesake of yours who worked at Palm?

Besides achyuts at hickory pork, mathrufakeer telecom providers(V in particular) also screwed its prospects. Jon Rubenstein in a recent interview mentioned that and he said he was right...no one gives a flying fig to provider apps/store. Only Sprint was a bit better at dealing with.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 19 Sep 2013 08:40

should i be worried for any reason to upgrade iphonewa4 with ios 7?

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 19 Sep 2013 08:53

Regarding BB's recent 5in Z30 phonua:

The naming of the new smartphone is a bit odd to anyone who has worked in journalism for a long time. While not in use much at all now, the term “-30-” was used since the early days of journalism to designate the end of a story.

Why did the marketing executives at BlackBerry decide in their naming schemes to jump to Z30 from the Z10 is anyone’s guess. Perhaps it was a Freudian slip.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 19 Sep 2013 09:08

Satya_anveshi wrote:
Raja Bose wrote:But Kala Jamun has nothing unique to offer except their one single service. And now that service is available on other platforms. Unless they come up with some other useful service, its a losing battle.
Bose boss, pl humor me: In what way Android supports/enables differentiation for vendors that BeeBee disallows? Security and ability to enter enterprise space may be some additional benefits for vendors.

Does BeeBee have anything like Chacha Mail, Chacha Maps, Chacha Now? Security and enterprise friendliness is no longer the preserve of BeeBee or Mickey. iOS has it, Android has it and that was largely consumer driven. Usually in BeeBee's heydays the direction was reverse....business adoption drove consumer adoption. But that changed with iPhunwa...now consumer adoption drives business adoption.

Anujan wrote:JBQ was the repository maintainer of AOSP. In charge of the AOSP git tree. He did not manage or head anything.

Just becoz JBQ left in a huff doesn't make him a chaprasi.

He was a technical lead and the (very vocal) public face of AOSP, not merely some lowly sysadmin maintaining the git repo. He is now in Yahoo! as a senior principal engineer.

----

I wish I could have recorded Rubinstein's talk about the iPod. Guy is funny as hell. Some trivia I never knew about the iPod...

- Phil Schiller came up with the idea of the iPod click wheel based on a rotary phone dial.
- The Mahdi pushed back development of the iPod by a few months to allow Rubinstein to get married.

- The Mahdi knew iTunes sucked before it shipped but famously didn't care.
- FruitCo shipped the first AirPort hub without any management software.
- The guy who designed the Newton hardware also designed the iPod hardware. And apparently Sir Jony was told by the HW team exactly where the display, clickwheel etc would go and all he did was design a housing around that.
- The Mahdi wanted to can the iPod before the iPod mini came out and the sales shot thru the roof.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 19 Sep 2013 14:38

http://www.wpcentral.com/union-bank-ind ... dows-phone

union bank of india and KBC release WP apps.
WP8 is more marketshare in india than IOS, so it makes sense for indian orgs to release android and WP8 apps not ios.

I can see that paytm has for everyone incl BB
https://www.paytm.com/mobile.html