Re: Islamism & Islamophobia Abroad - News & Analysis

Varoon Shekhar · Post by **Varoon Shekhar** » 21 Sep 2013 19:47

Big massacre at an upscale shopping mall in Nairobi, Kenya. Moslems are spared, everyone else killed or in danger. Hope everyone escapes or is saved, particularly any Indians there.

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 21 Sep 2013 20:05

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/2 ... 67042.html

NAIROBI, Kenya — Gunmen threw grenades and opened fire Saturday killing at least 10 people in an attack targeting non-Muslims at an upscale mall in Kenya's capital that was hosting a children's day event, witnesses said.

A local hospital was overwhelmed with the number of wounded being brought in hours after the attack, so they had to divert them to a second facility.

Elijah Kamau, who was at the mall at the time of the midday attack, said that the gunmen made a declaration that non-Muslims would be targeted.

"The gunmen told Muslims to stand up and leave. They were safe, and non-Muslims would be targeted," he said.

Manish Turohit, 18, said he saw gunmen with AK-47s and vests with hand grenades on them inside the mall before he escaped to hide in a parking garage for two hours.

arun · Post by **arun** » 22 Sep 2013 07:06

harbans wrote:http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/2 ... 67042.html

The Deutshe Press Agentur (DPA) news agency, via The Hindu, reports that the death toll in the Mohammadden terrorist attack in Nairobi has reached 39:

39 dead in Nairobi mall attack claimed by al-Shabaab

anmol · Post by **anmol** » 22 Sep 2013 14:12

arun wrote:
harbans wrote:http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/2 ... 67042.html
The Deutshe Press Agentur (DPA) news agency, via The Hindu, reports that the death toll in the Mohammadden terrorist attack in Nairobi has reached 39:

39 dead in Nairobi mall attack claimed by al-Shabaab

Following was posted on reddit:

shubzz101 284 points 5 hours ago

My mother got a call from kenya, yes my mom's sister and her daughter were killed in the mall. This is the reason we moved from kenya to candaa, lots of hatred, and robbing. If you get caught, they will rob you till your underwear if they have enough time. RIP , they said 50 percent were hindu and I am a hindu. I feel really sad and my mother had been telling her sister to come here for a long time. RIP all of who died

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 22 Sep 2013 15:17

>>>My mother got a call from kenya, yes my mom's sister and her daughter were killed in the mall. This is the reason we moved from kenya to candaa, lots of hatred, and robbing. If you get caught, they will rob you till your underwear if they have enough time. RIP , they said 50 percent were hindu and I am a hindu. I feel really sad and my mother had been telling her sister to come here for a long time. RIP all of who died

Looks like a carefully placed troll post... "This is the reason we moved from Kenya"? Which is the reason? The attack, or "the lots of hatred, and robbing"... The first part, "lots of hatred" is an outright lie. The African Kenyans could just as easily turn around and say there is "lots of racism" from Kenyan Indians - and that would be equally false. There is hatred, and there is racism, and it is getting less and less as both learn to make money together.

Indians have been living and prospering, and today form the foremost business community in Kenya, and are happily carrying on their existence there, identifying themselves as both Kenyans and people of Indian origin. There is no conflict in their minds, by and large. There is of course crime, and as would be the case in any country, the rich tend to get robbed more than the poor (or their privations are reported more). The desperately poor in any country would potentially rob you down to your underwear, if they were so inclined and got the chance.

Yes, a lot of the victims at the Westgate attack were people of Indian origin, and almost certainly Hindus. Percentages are not clear yet. It is also more than likely that the attackers are not Kenyan. A lot of African Kenyans were killed, and so were a couple of Canadians, and people from France. The mall is frequented by a large number of nationalities, it's like a bloody UN in there - literally - on the weekends. Unfortunately, I suspect the mall proved to be an "ideal" target for reasons more than those being reported now. The information will trickle out gradually.

So far the death toll is 59, and likely to increase by a little more. There are apparently 10 to 15 assailants (seems famiiar?) and at least four of them are said to have been wearing "keffiyeh" head-dresses ("Arafat-type", as one witness put it).

One must sympathise with the "shubzzz" guy if his aunt and cousin were killed, but I have little sympathy for his reflexive blaming of the African Kenyans - on a completely unrelated tangent - for crime and hatred and unrelated rubbish laced with innuendo.

Smriti Vidyarthi of NTV Kenya, a local channel, is anchoring well and effectively at the moment. Lots of African Kenyans and Kenyan Indians (many of both armed with semi-automatics - apparently intelligence and plain clothes police) were on the spot as it happened yesterday, helping each other, giving first aid to each other, and rescuing and guiding each other out of the mall for hours. There were also British security personnel visible in live feed yesterday (one spoke and his accent was immediately evident).

There was also an excellent video shot of an Kenyan Indian guy, who was initally moving about with what looked like a 9mm semiautomatic and in plain casual clothes, suddenly running into a side area, grabbing a small baby of mixed black-white parentage with cute little dreadlocks and running out with her in his arms and gun tucked into his waistband, and handing her over to someone outside. Curious thing is the guy, if you met him outside, looked like one our SDRE accountants or lawyers with specs and everything. Most probably plain-clothes Kenyan police or intelligence. There were plenty of examples of African Kenyans, Kenyan Indians and Kenyan Brits as well as foreigners helping each other out in the local channel footage itself.

Meanwhile, the injured and traumatised are being treated in various places, including the nearby Oshwal Centre in Westlands where the mall is located (http://www.oshwalnairobi.org/), the MP Shah hospital (http://www.mpshahhosp.org/) and the Aga Khan Hospital (http://hospitals.aku.edu/nairobi/Pages/home.aspx) where many, if not most, of the medical personnel are of Indian Kenyan and African Kenyan origin.

Caution and restraining of one's biases is well advised in these circumstances.

Murugan · Post by **Murugan** » 22 Sep 2013 17:31

rajender pandey ‏@rajenderpandey3 8h
@PakistanAtheist @KiranKS What an irony. Mohammad hated his mother Ameena and yet the poor woman's name could have saved these people.

Murugan · Post by **Murugan** » 22 Sep 2013 19:24

Why Israeli forces are used to flush out Nairobi terrorists?
What connection?

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 22 Sep 2013 19:32

>>hope the Kenyans have good CT forces to close in and punish the scum. the slideshow on NYT shows a mumbai like scene with plain clothes police having 9mm pistols and what seems to be armymen or paramils with green dress, no BPJ/helmet/comms gear and G3 rifles. one shot of a police type guy with BPJ and a AK56.

GD - What I am about to say here may not converge with general predispositions, Western reportage, etc... Kenya is a poor country with not much of anything (yet) except some mineral resources and grassroots entrepreneurship. Oil/gas has been discovered but it is some way away from generating revenue. Their capabilities and capacities have been gradually built up by steady accretion rather than consistent and long term strategic planning, not because they are incapable, but because they never had the finances and/or the critical mass in terms of intellectual capital. Both have been accumulating steadily over the last decade. Consequently, they have gradually upgraded and things are perceptibly improving. Their economy is growing, but overregulated; the polity is stable for the foreseeable future, and I think democracy has taken hold.

So given the above, they have enough forces, reasonably well armed, reasonably well led, and reasonably capable of bringing things to a close. Whether that will be done with the media-managed efficiency and confidently reassuring media commentary that one may find elsewhere is questionable. Soldiers have gone in just in fatigues without BPJs or even helmets in many cases. But will they get the terrorists? I have little doubt they will. I'm also sure that, after this, they will receive a lot of help to improve their capabilities... Almost certainly India will play a quiet, and effective role. We have a considerable stake in Kenya's stability and prosperity. If I remember correctly, the last overseas visit that the President, Uhuru Kenyatta, made before his election was to New Delhi. (BTW, the president's nephew and his fiancee were killed in the attack).

The Kenyans are a proud people, and they are generally peaceful. It does not appear that ordinary folk have been able to understand why Al Shabab or Islamists have been targeting Kenya for a couple of years now with kidnappings, and terror attacks directed against Churches, and separatist shenanigans in Mombasa - in a country where the vast majority is Christian, animist, Hindu, etc; and the Muslims are a minority of 11% or so. And Kenyan Muslims aren't the problem, either really; it's the outside influence...

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 22 Sep 2013 19:33

Murugan,

Where did you hear that Israeli forces are used to flush out the terrorists?

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 22 Sep 2013 19:54

Kenya, Uganda and Tanzania are definitely promising friends and allies of India. we should extend all the help they ask for.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 22 Sep 2013 19:57

that mall is reported to be israeli owned. and israelis have a vested interest in stability in that region - a prime hinterland for its services and products. so some 'advisers' could be there helping in areas like comms and thermals. most israeli embassies would have such people and kit.

CNN is reporting that israelis have sent some folks
Kenyan authorities fear more carnage as gunmen dig in
30 hostages still being held
Israeli Special Forces on scene working with Kenyan troops
At least 59 killed; British, Canadian citizens among dead

the Kenya govt has also now brought in their A-team - G3 rifles but body armour, helmets and black face masks per CNN and NYT photos.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 22 Sep 2013 19:59

I got family living 3 kms away from the mall. Things are normal, but for the mall.

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 22 Sep 2013 20:05

Yes they are all friends of India, and dare I say good friends. There is a strong Indian presence in these countries, consisting of people of Indian origin who love these countries and have lived there for generations. Many retain strong ties back home and visit regularly. Some don't but still retain affection for their land of origin. The relationship between Indian and these three countries (and Ethiopia as well) will improve and become more comprehensive in the years ahead.

GD - the mall is indeed Israeli owned, at least in part. No doubt they have their usual capabilities, but so do a lot of other countries here. (The mall was indeed a prime target for that reason: at least part (if not fully) Israeli owned; most of the business inside ethnic Indian owned, and most of that Hindu; and a fair amount of visitors being Christian and Hindu as well as Jewish no doubt. This is probably why they required Muslims to leave. But not all left, if any did; It was clear that there were Muslims among the crowd desperately trying to escape. In short, they were as much the victims as everyone else there was).

Murugan was specific and said they were using Israeli forces, and I was wondering where he got that info.

Added later: OK I see that CNN is saying that there are Israeli teams in there helping "on the ground" (whatever that means). Possible. But President Kenyatta has explicitly denied any foreign offers of assistance being accepted "for the time being". Like I said, there were plain clothes people crawling all over the place there yesterday...

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 22 Sep 2013 20:17

israeli can help from the back line by providing eqpt like worm cams to look under doors/around corners and thermals if they seek to engage in a final fight in the dark. they could also monitor comms like our NTRO/telcos did in mumbai.
I dont think Kenya will allow them to lead an assault and neither would israel want to show its hand so directly.

it is a very difficult situation with so many terrorists and many hostages. no simple solution exists. some could have suicide vests as well including the lone woman terrorist.

nvishal · Post by **nvishal** » 22 Sep 2013 21:01

2 Indians among 59 killed in Kenya mall siege, Israel steps in

59 killed and 200 wounded with an unknown number of hostages still being held by Somali Islamist militants

The Israelis have just entered and they are rescuing the hostages and the injured

Some 10 to 15 gunmen are still battling security forces inside Nairobi's Westgate shopping mall

Somalia's Al Qaeda-inspired Shebab rebels said the carnage at the part Israeli-owned complex mall was in retaliation for Kenya's military intervention in Somalia, where African Union troops are battling the Islamists.

Two Indians, including an 8-year-old boy, were among 43 killed and four other Indian nationals injured in the attack by armed terrorists in the mall.

While one of the victims 40-year-old Sridhar Natarajan was working with a pharma firm, the boy Paramshu Jain was the son of a manager of the local Bank of Baroda branch

Foreigners were among the casualties. France's president said that two French women were killed. Two Canadians were killed, including a diplomat, said the Candadian prime minister. Four American citizens were reported injured but not killed in the attack, the State Department said Saturday.

As the attack began shortly after noon Saturday, the al-Qaida-linked gunmen asked the victims they had cornered if they were Muslim: Those who answered yes were free to go, several witnesses said. The non-Muslims were not.

Lilo · Post by **Lilo** » 22 Sep 2013 21:07

Israeli forces enter Nairobi mall to end carnage: Report

NAIROBI: Israeli forces have joined Kenyan efforts to end a deadly siege by Somali militants at a Nairobi shopping mall, a security source told AFP Sunday.

"The Israelis have just entered and they are rescuing the hostages and the injured," the source told AFP on condition that he won't be named.

At least 59 people have been confirmed killed in the attack by Somali militants on an upmarket shopping mall in Nairobi, a government minister said on Sunday, as Kenyan troops battled gunmen still holding an unknown number of hostages.

Heavy gunfire could be heard as Kenyan security officials said they were attempting to kill or capture the remaining attackers and end the 24-hour-long bloodbath at the Westgate mall.

Among the dead was renowned Ghanaian poet and statesmen Kofi Awoonor. Somalia's al-Qaida-inspired al-Shabaab rebels said the carnage at the part Israeli-owned complex was in retaliation for Kenya's military intervention in Somalia, where African Union troops are battling the Islamists.

Interior minister Joseph Ole Lenku said 59 people were confirmed dead. "A number of attackers are still in the building, and range between 10 to 15 gunmen," he said in a statement. "We believe there are some innocent people in the building, that is why the operation is delicate."

Kenyan President Uhuru Kenyatta said in a televised address to the nation late Saturday that he had lost family members in the attack.

"Let me make it clear. We shall hunt down the perpetrators wherever they run to. We shall get them. We shall punish them for this heinous crime," he vowed.

The Westgate mall is popular with wealthy Kenyans and expatriates, and was packed with around 1,000 shoppers when the gunmen marched in at midday Saturday, tossed grenades and sprayed automatic gunfire at terrified people.

Security agencies have long feared that the shopping centre could be targeted by al-Qaida-linked groups.

The attack was the worst in Nairobi since an al-Qaida bombing at the US embassy killed more than 200 people in 1998.

After a day and night of sometimes ferocious gun battles, security sources said police and soldiers had finally "pinned down" the gunmen. The Kenyan Red Cross appealed for blood donations and authorities urged residents to steer clear of the area.

"We are still battling with the attackers and our forces have managed to maroon the attackers on one of the floors," said Kenyan military spokesman Colonel Cyrus Oguna.

"We still do not know the number of hostages nor the attackers but we hope to bring this to an end today."

One teenage survivor recounted to AFP how he played dead to avoid being killed.

"I heard screams and gunshots all over the place. I got scared. I tried to run down the stairs and saw someone running towards the top, I ran back and hid behind one of the cars," 18-year-old Umar Ahmed said.

In the hours after the attack began, shocked people of all ages and races could be seen running from the mall, some clutching babies, while others crawled along walls to avoid stray bullets.

"They spoke something that seemed like Arabic or Somali," said a man who escaped the mall and gave his name only as Jay. "I saw people being executed after being asked to say something."

Kenyan police, troops and special forces then moved in and went shop-to-shop inside the shopping centre. Foreign security officials — from Israel, the United States and Britain — were also seen at the complex.

An AFPTV reporter said she saw at least 20 people rescued from a toy shop, some of them children taken away on stretchers.

Kenneth Kerich, who was shopping when the attack happened, described scenes of utter panic.

"I suddenly heard gunshots and saw everyone running around so we lied down. I saw two people who were lying down and bleeding, I think they were hit by bullets," he said.

"The gunmen tried to fire at my head but missed. I saw at least 50 people shot," mall employee Sudjar Singh told AFP.

Ghanaian poet Awoonor, 78, who was once his country's representative to the United Nations, was killed while shopping with his son, who was injured in the attack, Ghanaian officials said.

A spokesman for Shabaab said the attack was retaliation for Kenya's nearly two-year-old military presence in war-torn Somalia in support of the internationally backed Mogadishu government.

"We have warned Kenya of that attack but it ignored (us), still forcefully holding our lands ... while killing our innocent civilians," Shabaab spokesman Sheik Ali Mohamud Rage said in a statement.

"If you want Kenya in peace, it will not happen as long as your boys are in our lands."

The group also issued a string of statements via Twitter, one of them claiming that Muslims in the centre had been "escorted out by the Mujahideen before beginning the attack".

Police at the scene said a suspect wounded in the firefight had been detained and taken to hospital under armed guard, and later died of his injuries.

EU foreign policy chief Catherine Ashton said she was "appalled by the brutal attack against innocent citizens" and sent her "sincere condolences to those who have lost family, friends and loved ones".

Paris confirmed that two French citizens were among those killed in what it condemned as a "cowardly" attack. Canada's Prime Minister Stephen Harper said two Canadians, one of them a diplomat, were among the dead, while official Chinese news agency Xinhua said one Chinese woman was killed and her child wounded.

Two Indians and a South Korean were also among the dead. The United States said its citizens were reportedly among those injured by the "despicable" act while British Foreign Secretary William Hague said there were "undoubtedly British nationals caught up in this so we should be ready for that".

The UN security council condemned the attack "in the strongest possible terms".

A separate thread for this is needed.

Lilo · Post by **Lilo** » 22 Sep 2013 21:20

nvishal wrote:2 Indians among 59 killed in Kenya mall siege, Israel steps in
59 killed and 200 wounded with an unknown number of hostages still being held by Somali Islamist militants

The Israelis have just entered and they are rescuing the hostages and the injured

Some 10 to 15 gunmen are still battling security forces inside Nairobi's Westgate shopping mall

Somalia's Al Qaeda-inspired Shebab rebels said the carnage at the part Israeli-owned complex mall was in retaliation for Kenya's military intervention in Somalia, where African Union troops are battling the Islamists.

Two Indians, including an 8-year-old boy, were among 43 killed and four other Indian nationals injured in the attack by armed terrorists in the mall.

While one of the victims 40-year-old Sridhar Natarajan was working with a pharma firm, the boy Paramshu Jain was the son of a manager of the local Bank of Baroda branch

Foreigners were among the casualties. France's president said that two French women were killed. Two Canadians were killed, including a diplomat, said the Candadian prime minister. Four American citizens were reported injured but not killed in the attack, the State Department said Saturday.

As the attack began shortly after noon Saturday, the al-Qaida-linked gunmen asked the victims they had cornered if they were Muslim: Those who answered yes were free to go, several witnesses said. The non-Muslims were not.

Anujan wrote:The training chief of Al Shabab the group suspected in Kenya attack is Pakistani. Many others in the group are Pakistani or trained in Pakistan.

The attack is very similar to Mumbai attacks. Trained terrorists storming posh areas and inflicting casualties using automatic weapons. Also a multi day attack to garner maximum publicity.

I will not be surprised if this is a Pakistan jihad factory product and is a dry run for more attacks of a similar nature - not just against Kenya.

Lilo · Post by **Lilo** » 22 Sep 2013 21:21

A ji,
The dry run already occurred in 26/11 Mumbai attack 5 years back.

Lilo · Post by **Lilo** » 22 Sep 2013 21:23

Israeli forces enter Nairobi mall to end carnage: Report

NAIROBI: Israeli forces have joined Kenyan efforts to end a deadly siege by Somali militants at a Nairobi shopping mall, a security source told AFP Sunday.

"The Israelis have just entered and they are rescuing the hostages and the injured," the source told AFP on condition that he won't be named.

At least 59 people have been confirmed killed in the attack by Somali militants on an upmarket shopping mall in Nairobi, a government minister said on Sunday, as Kenyan troops battled gunmen still holding an unknown number of hostages.

Heavy gunfire could be heard as Kenyan security officials said they were attempting to kill or capture the remaining attackers and end the 24-hour-long bloodbath at the Westgate mall.

Among the dead was renowned Ghanaian poet and statesmen Kofi Awoonor. Somalia's al-Qaida-inspired al-Shabaab rebels said the carnage at the part Israeli-owned complex was in retaliation for Kenya's military intervention in Somalia, where African Union troops are battling the Islamists.

Interior minister Joseph Ole Lenku said 59 people were confirmed dead. "A number of attackers are still in the building, and range between 10 to 15 gunmen," he said in a statement. "We believe there are some innocent people in the building, that is why the operation is delicate."

Kenyan President Uhuru Kenyatta said in a televised address to the nation late Saturday that he had lost family members in the attack.

"Let me make it clear. We shall hunt down the perpetrators wherever they run to. We shall get them. We shall punish them for this heinous crime," he vowed.

The Westgate mall is popular with wealthy Kenyans and expatriates, and was packed with around 1,000 shoppers when the gunmen marched in at midday Saturday, tossed grenades and sprayed automatic gunfire at terrified people.

Security agencies have long feared that the shopping centre could be targeted by al-Qaida-linked groups.

The attack was the worst in Nairobi since an al-Qaida bombing at the US embassy killed more than 200 people in 1998.

After a day and night of sometimes ferocious gun battles, security sources said police and soldiers had finally "pinned down" the gunmen. The Kenyan Red Cross appealed for blood donations and authorities urged residents to steer clear of the area.

"We are still battling with the attackers and our forces have managed to maroon the attackers on one of the floors," said Kenyan military spokesman Colonel Cyrus Oguna.

"We still do not know the number of hostages nor the attackers but we hope to bring this to an end today."

One teenage survivor recounted to AFP how he played dead to avoid being killed.

"I heard screams and gunshots all over the place. I got scared. I tried to run down the stairs and saw someone running towards the top, I ran back and hid behind one of the cars," 18-year-old Umar Ahmed said.

In the hours after the attack began, shocked people of all ages and races could be seen running from the mall, some clutching babies, while others crawled along walls to avoid stray bullets.

"They spoke something that seemed like Arabic or Somali," said a man who escaped the mall and gave his name only as Jay. "I saw people being executed after being asked to say something."

Kenyan police, troops and special forces then moved in and went shop-to-shop inside the shopping centre. Foreign security officials — from Israel, the United States and Britain — were also seen at the complex.

An AFPTV reporter said she saw at least 20 people rescued from a toy shop, some of them children taken away on stretchers.

Kenneth Kerich, who was shopping when the attack happened, described scenes of utter panic.

"I suddenly heard gunshots and saw everyone running around so we lied down. I saw two people who were lying down and bleeding, I think they were hit by bullets," he said.

"The gunmen tried to fire at my head but missed. I saw at least 50 people shot," mall employee Sudjar Singh told AFP.

Ghanaian poet Awoonor, 78, who was once his country's representative to the United Nations, was killed while shopping with his son, who was injured in the attack, Ghanaian officials said.

A spokesman for Shabaab said the attack was retaliation for Kenya's nearly two-year-old military presence in war-torn Somalia in support of the internationally backed Mogadishu government.

"We have warned Kenya of that attack but it ignored (us), still forcefully holding our lands ... while killing our innocent civilians," Shabaab spokesman Sheik Ali Mohamud Rage said in a statement.

"If you want Kenya in peace, it will not happen as long as your boys are in our lands."

The group also issued a string of statements via Twitter, one of them claiming that Muslims in the centre had been "escorted out by the Mujahideen before beginning the attack".

Police at the scene said a suspect wounded in the firefight had been detained and taken to hospital under armed guard, and later died of his injuries.

EU foreign policy chief Catherine Ashton said she was "appalled by the brutal attack against innocent citizens" and sent her "sincere condolences to those who have lost family, friends and loved ones".

Paris confirmed that two French citizens were among those killed in what it condemned as a "cowardly" attack. Canada's Prime Minister Stephen Harper said two Canadians, one of them a diplomat, were among the dead, while official Chinese news agency Xinhua said one Chinese woman was killed and her child wounded.

Two Indians and a South Korean were also among the dead. The United States said its citizens were reportedly among those injured by the "despicable" act while British Foreign Secretary William Hague said there were "undoubtedly British nationals caught up in this so we should be ready for that".

The UN security council condemned the attack "in the strongest possible terms".

agastya wrote:Pakistani terror trainer behind Nairobi attack?

A Pakistani-origin man is believed to be the security and training chief of Al Qaeda linked Shahab group that carried out the horrific attack at Westgate mall in Nairobi killing at least 59 people. Abu Musa Mombasa, a Pakistani citizen, serves as Shabaab's chief of security and training, the Long War Journal had said in a 2010 report.

Kenyan troops were locked in a fierce firefight with Somali militants inside the Nairobi shopping mall today, in a final push to end a siege that has left 59 dead, including two Indians, and wounded 200 others with an unknown number of hostages still being held.

Somalia's Al Qaeda-inspired Shebab rebels said the carnage at the part Israeli-owned complex was in retaliation for Kenya's military intervention in Somalia, where African Union troops are battling the Islamists.

Meanwhile, the Twitter account of Somalia's Shabab rebels was suspended yesterday after they used the site to claim responsibility for the attack.

However, the group seems to have launched a new twitter account @HSM-PressOffice.

The Shabab's previous account, @HSMPress, was suspended in January after it posted photographs of a French commando they killed and threatened to execute Kenyan hostages.

Not to be deterred, they opened another account, @HSMPress1, but were again suspended earlier this month after threatening Somalia's president.

The group had issued a series of messages on Twitter yesterday, claiming its fighters were behind an attack.
One more jewel in the crown for suwaristan.

JE Menon wrote:>>hope the Kenyans have good CT forces to close in and punish the scum. the slideshow on NYT shows a mumbai like scene with plain clothes police having 9mm pistols and what seems to be armymen or paramils with green dress, no BPJ/helmet/comms gear and G3 rifles. one shot of a police type guy with BPJ and a AK56.

GD - What I am about to say here may not converge with general predispositions, Western reportage, etc... Kenya is a poor country with not much of anything (yet) except some mineral resources and grassroots entrepreneurship. Oil/gas has been discovered but it is some way away from generating revenue. Their capabilities and capacities have been gradually built up by steady accretion rather than consistent and long term strategic planning, not because they are incapable, but because they never had the finances and/or the critical mass in terms of intellectual capital. Both have been accumulating steadily over the last decade. Consequently, they have gradually upgraded and things are perceptibly improving. Their economy is growing, but overregulated; the polity is stable for the foreseeable future, and I think democracy has taken hold.

So given the above, they have enough forces, reasonably well armed, reasonably well led, and reasonably capable of bringing things to a close. Whether that will be done with the media-managed efficiency and confidently reassuring media commentary that one may find elsewhere is questionable. Soldiers have gone in just in fatigues without BPJs or even helmets in many cases. But will they get the terrorists? I have little doubt they will. I'm also sure that, after this, they will receive a lot of help to improve their capabilities... Almost certainly India will play a quiet, and effective role. We have a considerable stake in Kenya's stability and prosperity. If I remember correctly, the last overseas visit that the President, Uhuru Kenyatta, made before his election was to New Delhi. (BTW, the president's nephew and his fiancee were killed in the attack).

The Kenyans are a proud people, and they are generally peaceful. It does not appear that ordinary folk have been able to understand why Al Shabab or Islamists have been targeting Kenya for a couple of years now with kidnappings, and terror attacks directed against Churches, and separatist shenanigans in Mombasa - in a country where the vast majority is Christian, animist, Hindu, etc; and the Muslims are a minority of 11% or so. And Kenyan Muslims aren't the problem, either really; it's the outside influence...

harbans wrote:The Dynasty and PM keeps mum on the killings in Nairobi, but NM does in his inimitable style touches the right chords..

Touching to know of a hospital in Nairobi built by the Indian Community that is helping during this crisis.

Narendra Modi ‏@narendramodi 19m

Spoke to India's High Commissioner to Kenya & spoke to people of the Indian community there over the unfortunate attack in Nairobi.

JE Menon wrote:>>>My mother got a call from kenya, yes my mom's sister and her daughter were killed in the mall. This is the reason we moved from kenya to candaa, lots of hatred, and robbing. If you get caught, they will rob you till your underwear if they have enough time. RIP , they said 50 percent were hindu and I am a hindu. I feel really sad and my mother had been telling her sister to come here for a long time. RIP all of who died

Looks like a carefully placed troll post... "This is the reason we moved from Kenya"? Which is the reason? The attack, or "the lots of hatred, and robbing"... The first part, "lots of hatred" is an outright lie. The African Kenyans could just as easily turn around and say there is "lots of racism" from Kenyan Indians - and that would be equally false. There is hatred, and there is racism, and it is getting less and less as both learn to make money together.

Indians have been living and prospering, and today form the foremost business community in Kenya, and are happily carrying on their existence there, identifying themselves as both Kenyans and people of Indian origin. There is no conflict in their minds, by and large. There is of course crime, and as would be the case in any country, the rich tend to get robbed more than the poor (or their privations are reported more). The desperately poor in any country would potentially rob you down to your underwear, if they were so inclined and got the chance.

Yes, a lot of the victims at the Westgate attack were people of Indian origin, and almost certainly Hindus. Percentages are not clear yet. It is also more than likely that the attackers are not Kenyan. A lot of African Kenyans were killed, and so were a couple of Canadians, and people from France. The mall is frequented by a large number of nationalities, it's like a bloody UN in there - literally - on the weekends. Unfortunately, I suspect the mall proved to be an "ideal" target for reasons more than those being reported now. The information will trickle out gradually.

So far the death toll is 59, and likely to increase by a little more. There are apparently 10 to 15 assailants (seems famiiar?) and at least four of them are said to have been wearing "keffiyeh" head-dresses ("Arafat-type", as one witness put it).

One must sympathise with the "shubzzz" guy if his aunt and cousin were killed, but I have little sympathy for his reflexive blaming of the African Kenyans - on a completely unrelated tangent - for crime and hatred and unrelated rubbish laced with innuendo.

Smriti Vidyarthi of NTV Kenya, a local channel, is anchoring well and effectively at the moment. Lots of African Kenyans and Kenyan Indians (many of both armed with semi-automatics - apparently intelligence and plain clothes police) were on the spot as it happened yesterday, helping each other, giving first aid to each other, and rescuing and guiding each other out of the mall for hours. There were also British security personnel visible in live feed yesterday (one spoke and his accent was immediately evident).

There was also an excellent video shot of an Kenyan Indian guy, who was initally moving about with what looked like a 9mm semiautomatic and in plain casual clothes, suddenly running into a side area, grabbing a small baby of mixed black-white parentage with cute little dreadlocks and running out with her in his arms and gun tucked into his waistband, and handing her over to someone outside. Curious thing is the guy, if you met him outside, looked like one our SDRE accountants or lawyers with specs and everything. Most probably plain-clothes Kenyan police or intelligence. There were plenty of examples of African Kenyans, Kenyan Indians and Kenyan Brits as well as foreigners helping each other out in the local channel footage itself.

Meanwhile, the injured and traumatised are being treated in various places, including the nearby Oshwal Centre in Westlands where the mall is located (http://www.oshwalnairobi.org/), the MP Shah hospital (http://www.mpshahhosp.org/) and the Aga Khan Hospital (http://hospitals.aku.edu/nairobi/Pages/home.aspx) where many, if not most, of the medical personnel are of Indian Kenyan and African Kenyan origin.

Caution and restraining of one's biases is well advised in these circumstances.

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 22 Sep 2013 21:38

Atleast all the rescuers look SDRE to me.

India should have sent in advisors atleast.

Lilo · Post by **Lilo** » 22 Sep 2013 21:43

Kenya terror attack: Global effort required to fight terrorism, says Manmohan Singh
New Delhi: Prime Minister Manmohan Singh on Sunday strongly condemned the terror strike on a shopping mall in Nairobi in Kenya and has directed the MEA to extend help to Indian nationals who were among the victims.

The PM also wrote to the Kenyan President and wished a speedy recovery to the people injured in the attack.

While showing his concern towards the growing instinct of violence among the young generation worldwide , the Prime Minister wrote in his letter to President Kenyatta that, "A concerted global effort is required to control such mindless violence."

When terrorists themselves announced that they conducted the attacks with clear cut Islamist political goals - what's this mealymouthing about "violence in young generation " hain ji ?

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 22 Sep 2013 21:47

Lilo wrote:

Kenya terror attack: Global effort required to fight terrorism, says Manmohan Singh
New Delhi: Prime Minister Manmohan Singh on Sunday strongly condemned the terror strike on a shopping mall in Nairobi in Kenya and has directed the MEA to extend help to Indian nationals who were among the victims.

The PM also wrote to the Kenyan President and wished a speedy recovery to the people injured in the attack.

While showing his concern towards the growing instinct of violence among the young generation worldwide , the Prime Minister wrote in his letter to President Kenyatta that, "A concerted global effort is required to control such mindless violence."
When terrorists themselves announced that they conducted the attacks with clear cut Islamist political goals - what's this mealymouthing about "violence in young generation " hain ji ?

Idiocy masquerading as political correctness.

Raja Ram · Post by **Raja Ram** » 22 Sep 2013 21:48

I am in Kenya and landed yesterday. My host here is my school mate. His wife and elder son had a providential escape. They just came out of the mall and minutes later the shooting started.

Three Indian citizens are dead and all of them were known to them personally. Very decent folks. One of the dead Indian citizens was a child of 8. Besides this there are many more Indian origin people who died and yes they include Indian muslims as well.

The terrorists are well armed. The mall is just a 5 mins away from where I am now. Many children have been killed. The terrorists have asked questions on Islam and those who did not answer correctly, were shot.The killers are brutal scum. Apparently the leader is a woman terrorist. She is a white Brit converted Muslim called Samantha. Her first husband, another British was a terrorist too. He was killed in some terror attack in London. This lady is married to another Muslim terrorist. The media is not showing her photo or her name as yet.

Locals are circulating the picture. Kenya seems to have learnt some lessons from Mumbai. They have cordoned off the media guys and kept a tight leash on information that is coming out. No one is trying to contact held hostages over phone and nothing of the stupid interviews of survivors. The President and opposition leader appeared together on TV and appealed for calm and promised retribution.

The photos of the forces seem to be well equipped. There are reports of Israeli experts on the ground. Westgate Mall is pretty big and there seems to be many entrances. There are also reports of British experts. The count is much higher than officially reported. A good number of them are Indian origin.

The forces seem to be worried about the terrorists trying to blow up the whole mall. They seem to have no plan or demand. Al Shabab has claimed responsibility. It is an affiliate of Al Qaeda.

More insights when I get.

Lilo · Post by **Lilo** » 22 Sep 2013 21:57

Raja Ram wrote:I am in Kenya and landed yesterday. My host here is my school mate. His wife and elder son had a providential escape. They just came out of the mall and minutes later the shooting started.

Three Indian citizens are dead and all of them were known to them personally. Very decent folks. One of the dead Indian citizens was a child of 8. Besides this there are many more Indian origin people who died and yes they include Indian muslims as well.

The terrorists are well armed. The mall is just a 5 mins away from where I am now. Many children have been killed. The terrorists have asked questions on Islam and those who did not answer correctly, were shot.The killers are brutal scum. Apparently the leader is a woman terrorist. She is a white Brit converted Muslim called Samantha. Her first husband, another British was a terrorist too. He was killed in some terror attack in London. This lady is married to another Muslim terrorist. The media is not showing her photo or her name as yet.

Locals are circulating the picture. Kenya seems to have learnt some lessons from Mumbai. They have cordoned off the media guys and kept a tight leash on information that is coming out. No one is trying to contact held hostages over phone and nothing of the stupid interviews of survivors. The President and opposition leader appeared together on TV and appealed for calm and promised retribution.

The photos of the forces seem to be well equipped. There are reports of Israeli experts on the ground. Westgate Mall is pretty big and there seems to be many entrances. There are also reports of British experts. The count is much higher than officially reported. A good number of them are Indian origin.

The forces seem to be worried about the terrorists trying to blow up the whole mall. They seem to have no plan or demand. Al Shabab has claimed responsibility. It is an affiliate of Al Qaeda.

More insights when I get.

RR ji,
Thanks for you inputs. Hope the families of the deceased find solace. I fear for the hostages still - what gruesome ordeal they may be undergoing...
Shemaybe the one tracked in BR a while back in paki contribution to global terror thread.

Lilo wrote:

Paki terrorist helping Samantha Lewthwaite in Kenya moved about with a Latino name

The home was rented by man calling himself Marco Costa, 29. He might be Habib Ghani, who is originally from Hounslow, West London. He has a Kenyan mother and Pakistani father.

Ghani, grew up in Hounslow, west London and worshipped at the same mosque as the first British suicide bomber Asif Hanif, who blew himself up in a bar in Israel in 2003.

Nothing new .. just another paki terroist.
Though the taqqiya of the white widow now exposed here should setoff an interesting chain of events. The day is not far off when the aam britturd is throughly familiar with the concept of taqqiya.

Back in 2005, Samantha Lewthwaite told the BBC:

“I totally condemn and am horrified by the atrocities which occurred in London on Thursday 7 July. I am the wife of Germaine Lindsay, and never predicted or imagined that he was involved in such horrific activities. He was a loving husband and father. I am trying to come to terms with the recent events. My whole world has fallen apart, and my thoughts are with the families of the victims of this incomprehensible devastation.”

In a separate statement, Ms Lewthwaite’s father Andrew, 49, sister Sabrina, 28, brother Allan, 25, and Allan’s wife Carly, 21, also said the family had no inkling of Lindsay’s plans.

The statement offered condolences to the families of the victims, and said the family did not condone what had happened.

“Germaine had a kind, caring and calming presence about him. He was a good and loving husband and a brilliant father, who showed absolutely no sign of doing this atrocious crime. We as a family had no idea of his plans and are as horrified as the rest of the world. We are still in shock about the news we have been given and are trying to understand why anyone, never mind Germaine, would do such a thing. We plead to anyone who has information to help police with their investigations to stamp out these terrorists.”

http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 2#p1254582

Raja Ram · Post by **Raja Ram** » 22 Sep 2013 21:59

Looks like that there is a heating up of for a final showdown. It looks like they want to blow up and the Israeli's are involved now. These are just news from various sources. Not confirmed.

JwalaMukhi · Post by **JwalaMukhi** » 22 Sep 2013 23:12

In an effort in haste to pin-point the origin of the terror attack, all the focus will be on some terror outfit based elsewhere. Global scourge etc., will be the media theme.

The most crucial aspect that should be rigously pursued should be the home grown supporters who facilitated such an outcome.

Without the help of the local scums, these kinds of attacks are going to be extremely tough, bordering on invasive war type situation. Have to mercilessly hunt down the local scums who support and enable such terror attacks, be it in Nairobi or elsewhere. That is the key component, if that is overlooked in interest of being politically correct or political convenience, the global terror on the terra with terrorists mysteriously showing up in civilized place to create mayhem will be a tough one to solve for eons to come. Think globally act locally, will bear maximum results.

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 22 Sep 2013 23:28

This is Mumbai redux-killing of Indians by Pakistanis and those inspired directly by Pakistan, sponsored by Pakistani authorities. The message: Indians are fair game for Muslims wherever they may be in the world.

The East African dukas are run by Indians and most of those wealthy enough to shop at Westgate would be Indians and expatriate westerners.

Part Jewish owned, Indian businesses and casualties as well as the odd westerner-the perfect target for Pakistan. I hope Indian intelligence has been intercepting cellular and social media telecommunications traffic from their sats and posibly the fibre optic pipe terminals at Mumbai.

Depending on the number of western casuaties, pressure will be on Amreeka to leak information implicating Pakistan.

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 22 Sep 2013 23:45

Rajaram Sir, glad you are safe. Take care and keep us updated.

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 22 Sep 2013 23:46

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sqPIZIAZ ... e=youtu.be

Harkat ul Shabab Al Mujahedeen releases video statement on the attack.

Authenticity not confirmed.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 22 Sep 2013 23:49

WoW. Rajaram thanks for the first hand report. B Raman loved BR for this very reason. First in the thick of events.
And Lilo excellent tracking down. So the scum was tracked on BR already.

Does RAW have a Kenya module or is it shut down as CBM by Mumble Mumble Singh.

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 22 Sep 2013 23:58

RR how long are you in country? Is your yahoo email still live?

If latter is yes, pls confirm and expect an email ... If not, you have my gmail add...pls get in touch asap. Lunch or dinner, or whatever, is on me.

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 23 Sep 2013 00:03

Were there not some eyewitness accounts saying there were some blonde, white folk firing in Taj..i always felt there were more than these 10 pigs in 26/11.

saip · Post by **saip** » 23 Sep 2013 00:07

Now all Shabab is claiming that the terror group has 3 americans and one from UK (per CNN) and so whites?

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 23 Sep 2013 00:09

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/kenya ... e/1172699/

MMS conveys concerns. There are about 70,000 Indian origin people including Indians.

saip · Post by **saip** » 23 Sep 2013 00:11

From the photographs there seems to be quite a few Indians at the Mall.

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 23 Sep 2013 00:16

saip,

Westgate always has a lots of Muindis (Indians or PIOs) and Mzungus (whites) inside. I just didn't go there yesterday because my vehicle was in garage for repairs. My Saturday morning coffee is at the Artcaffe there most weekends. So I took a cab to another mall, and got a haircut instead. On the way back to my residence, I was whatsapped by a friend warning me to get the hell indoors. Such are the twists and turns of life.

There are more than 70,000 PIOs in Kenya.

JwalaMukhi · Post by **JwalaMukhi** » 23 Sep 2013 00:24

JEM ji,
Glad to hear that you are safe, and have encountered good karma. Could have been a close call.

Any ideas on how is the local traction for these terrorists? It doesn't look like these terrorists just walked into a civilized way and started shooting.

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 23 Sep 2013 00:51

Yes, could have been.

They didn't walk in in a civilised way. Apparently they just barged in at one entrance, after disembarking from a car. Now, there are two things you can do here.. one is to get into the mall through the security check for cars with a barrier and electronic ticketing system - then you can go to the basement parking or the roof parking. Alternatively, you can disembark at Mwanzi Road just in front of the mall, and climb about 10 steps and enter the mall .. There is a security check there too. I suspect this is where one group barged in guns blazing. Simultaneously apparently, another group charged in from the top floor - probably where the Millionaire's Casino is located. How they got their weapons in through there is something to think about, because the security checks for cars are pretty good - each and every car is checked underneath, and boots are opened, and the spare tyre compartment is checked as well!!! They could have carried it on their persons though, or put it under the seats... Hard to say, and depends on what they are packing in terms of weapons.

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 23 Sep 2013 00:58

Fairly certain now that Samantha Lewthwaite is involved.

There is additional info, but some information is leaking that (if it's not deliberate) shouldn't be, so I won't post it here since I don't know one way or the other for sure. Local sharing is going on of course, but this is among people who directly benefit from knowing in terms of personal welfare. I am myself getting it that way.

Let the people do their work inside.

saip · Post by **saip** » 23 Sep 2013 01:02

JEM: Glad to know you are safe. But it looks like the hostages have no chance as al Shabab obviously does not want to negotiate.