Re: Islamism & Islamophobia Abroad - News & Analysis

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 24 Sep 2013 01:44

The bigger thing is will they give them immunity (David Headley) or do something about the recruitment going on in the US by radical mullas?

Lilo · Post by **Lilo** » 24 Sep 2013 03:58

Analysis: Nairobi mall attack {Conviniently for West} strikes at Africa's boom image - Pascal Fletcher

JOHANNESBURG (Reuters) - When Islamist fighters from Somalia's al-Shabaab group stormed a Nairobi mall at the weekend, they knew they were hitting a high-profile symbol of Kenya's economic power in booming Africa.

The Israeli-built Westgate mall offering multiple levels of shops, cafes and restaurants epitomized the African consumer bonanza that is drawing foreign investment - from West and East - to one of the world's fastest growing continents.

Like the Algerian gas plant attacked by Saharan Islamists in January, the beige-colored mall offered a high-impact target for militants to kill dozens and sow panic as they increasingly wage cross-border jihad, challenging Africa and the wider world.

From Mali to Algeria, Nigeria to Kenya, violent Islamist groups - tapping into local poverty, conflict, inequality or exclusion but espousing a similar anti-Western, anti-Christian creed - are striking at state authority and international interests, both economic and political. {isnt this because West expects the turdworld to not have any state authority hain ji?}

John Campbell, a former U.S. ambassador to Nigeria, said he believed insurgents like those who rebelled in Mali last year, the Nigerian Boko Haram Islamist sect and the Nairobi mall raiders were also partly motivated by anger with what he called "pervasive malgovernance" in Africa.

"This is undoubtedly anti-Western and anti-Christian but it also taps into a lot of deep popular anger against the political economy in which they find themselves, in which a very small group of people are basically raking off the wealth," he said.

Campbell saw a darker side of the "Africa Rising" story, where growing social inequalities and tensions in ostensibly booming nations were being ignored or obscured by positive economic growth numbers that distorted the real picture. {Replace Africa with India here and we can immediately realize the angle of attack of this farticle}

"The statistics aren't describing the reality," said Campbell, the Ralph Bunche Senior Fellow for Africa Policy Studies at the New York-based Council on Foreign Relations.

He noted that the more than 60 victims of the mall attack included members of the Kenyan elite, including a nephew of Kenyan President Uhuru Kenyatta, and foreign expatriates.

Mark Rosenberg, Senior Analyst for Africa of the Eurasia Group consultancy, said the Nairobi attack would "increase the risk profile for Africa". This was always a "jumpy" barometer, he added, because there was "an unfortunate tendency to treat the continent as one country".

Nevertheless, he saw no "structural threat" from the African Islamist insurgencies to the growth trend on the continent over the last decade.

Rosenberg noted the Kenyan economy had bounced back strongly from the 1998 bombing by al Qaeda's East Africa cell of the U.S. Embassy in Nairobi which killed more than 200 people.

RELIGIOUS FAULTLINES {Don't we love these fault lines - quite easy to finger them}

Al Shabaab spokesmen cited the presence of Kenyan troops fighting them in neighboring Somalia as a motive for the mall raid. However, survivors said some of the attackers had picked victims according to their religion. {So you refuse to believe the words of survivors and yet put words in mouth and attribute false intent to a religious terror group's selective execution of non Islamic victims}

They "called on all Muslims to leave the shopping center," Israeli businessman Yariv Kedar wrote in an eyewitness account published by the Tel Aviv daily Yedioth Ahronoth.

Other survivors told reporters that those who identified themselves as Muslims were ordered to recite a verse from the Koran, or to name the Prophet Mohammed's mother. Those who could do so were allowed to go; those who failed the test were killed.

This religious factor is a common denominator of nearly all of the insurgencies and conflicts across the Sahel, northern Nigeria and the Sudans, into east Africa and the Horn of Africa. It follows the historical faultlines of where the mostly Islamicised north of the continent meets the predominantly Christian and non-Muslim south below the Sahara.

Ambassador Bethuel Kiplagat, founder member and adviser of the Nairobi-based African Peace Forum that researches peace and security issues, saw these militant strains of Islamism multiplying in Africa and across the globe.

"Something is fermenting in the world{ yup something IS fermenting - its the West's megalomania that it can escape the blow back when using Islamist proxies}. There is a religious factor, an Islamic factor, but it is not mainstream Islam," he said. He pointed to a weekend of apparently religious-inspired bloodshed that included suicide bombers killing 78 outside a Church in Pakistan on Sunday, and continuing violence between Iraqi Shi'ite and Sunni Muslims that killed 16 the same day.

"There is a struggle over what the nature of a state should be, religious or secular," said Kiplagat, adding that universal values of sanctity of life, freedom and justice were under attack from these diverse forms of Islamist violence. "They want to take us back to the 10th or 11th century," he said.

"INTERNATIONAL WAR"

Although al Qaeda, now without its slain leader Osama bin Laden, has not been able to repeat on U.S. soil the September 11, 2001 attacks on New York and Washington, experts say "metastasized" al Qaeda-inspired or -allied groups have been springing up across most of the world, including Africa.{No sir its because of former the latter is happening in the rest of the world, if massa couldn't secure its borders it wouldn't have employed islamists groups as pawns in its strategic blackmailing}

Abdi Aynte, of the Mogadishu-based Heritage Institute of Policy Studies, said it was possible al Shabaab "sub-contracted" the Nairobi attack to followers from Kenya, East Africa or even further afield.{this is the same local elements theory Christine fair immediately peddled after 26/11} The group is under pressure from an offensive by African troops in Somalia, said Aynte, who is director of the regional policy and security think tank.

Chief of the Kenya Defense Forces General Julius Karangi told reporters the mall raiders were "a multi national collection from all over the world" but he offered no details.

One survivor spoke of seeing at least one Somali among the attackers, while others spoke of seeing people "of Arab extraction" and there were reports of a white woman among them. {he gets all these first hand reports on Jihadis of foreign extraction executing the attacks yet begins by harping on sub contraction by Al shahaab to the local Kenyans .. Why ?}

Campbell said the different Islamist insurgencies challenging governments in Africa were diffuse and did not suggest an organized, centralized network. "There is no cave in Afghanistan where it's all being worked through," he said, referring to bin Laden's old operations base.

They could still cause damage and mayhem in Africa, "but it's much more difficult to imagine them flying aircraft into the Twin Towers", he said, recalling al Qaeda's 9/11 attack. {Lot of threats here and bragging about the untouchability of their boys - in previous 2 Paras}

Nevertheless, the Nairobi raid could encourage other groups to seek out such high-profile targets, as was apparently the case after militants attacked the Indian city of Mumbai.{Another threat of future attacks }

"One of the major concerns for CT (counter terrorism) officials is the demonstration effect of this kind of 'soft target' attack. Like the 2008 attacks in Mumbai, terrorist cells are learning that they can have strategic impact {yeah West got its Strategic Impact allright- by browbeating pusillanimous Indian netas into Aman ki Asha crapfest} with dramatic terror focused on soft targets," Juan Zarate, a former White House counter-terrorism adviser, told Reuters.

Eurasia's Rosenberg said the Nairobi attack would again give prominence to Kenya in Western counter-terrorism strategies. This could also strengthen President Kenyatta's campaign against crimes of humanity charges leveled against him and his deputy by prosecutors at the International Criminal Court in the Hague.

Kenyatta said at the weekend the threat posed by the mall attackers "is not a Kenyan war"

"This is an international war," he said

Where ever there is Africa or Kenya etc in above artecal - one can always replace them with India or any other turd world country(like Indonesia) etc and the "threats masquerading as Analysis in the article will be the same. In fact Indonesia may be the next venue for this attack. Seems that its outgrowing its shoes and if baksheesh is not offered , a peg back may be required - to maintain the "balance of power"

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 24 Sep 2013 04:04

This religious factor is a common denominator of nearly all of the insurgencies and conflicts across the Sahel, northern Nigeria and the Sudans, into east Africa and the Horn of Africa. It follows the historical faultlines of where the mostly Islamicised north of the continent meets the predominantly Christian and non-Muslim south below the Sahara.

This religious factor is fortunately absent in the West's inteactions with the rest of the world.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 24 Sep 2013 05:02

As far as the US citizens and connections go, there are sizable Somalian and Ethiopian population in USA.

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 24 Sep 2013 06:36

Discretion advised. Sikhs killed by Jihadis.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BU5Cj7yCQAALYvt.png

habal · Post by **habal** » 24 Sep 2013 06:52

two points that sprung up while observing this ..

there is a wider goal in all this to destabilize Africa, each and every country of africa.

BBC has again used the word terrorists in inverted comma like this.

Kenyan authorities claim to have shot down two 'terrorists'.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 24 Sep 2013 06:57

There is a huge number of Sikhs in Kenya.
I think Indians must be like the largest non african ethinicity there.
Wiki chacha says that Arabs, Indians and Europeans are the largest ethinic group there.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 24 Sep 2013 06:58

I wonder when our chamcha media in India will grow a spine.
They are shameless bootlickers of the western media, they act like pussies in front of them. But they become tigers when they interact with fellow Indians

habal · Post by **habal** » 24 Sep 2013 06:59

urban Indians by nature are also mall rats, preferring the a/c'ed atmosphere and relative security of malls for their day out.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 24 Sep 2013 09:56

firstpost

Kenya attack: No help from MEA, says slain Indian’s family by Apoorva Dutt Sep 23, 2013

Forty three-year-old Sridhar Natarajan was one of the casualties of the shootout when armed gunmen stormed the Westgate shopping mall in Nairobi, Kenya, on Sunday. His wife Manjula, 38, was also injured in the crossfire and is currently in a critical condition in a hospital in Nairobi. Kenya security personnel take cover outside the Westgate Mall after shooting started inside the mall. AP image Natarajan’s family members, since Sunday night, have been doing everything to arrange for tickets to Nairobi for Sridhar’s brother, Sanjivi Nataraj, so that he can go claim his brother’s body. He will also have to attend to Manjula, who is scheduled to undergo surgeries this week. But as a family member from Chennai tells Firstpost, the family has been caught in a bureaucratic tangle that threatened to derail his trip. “We started planning on getting Sanjivi to Nairobi last night,” says the family member, who did not want to be named, told Firstpost. According to the family, the Ministry of External Affairs had not contacted them till last night, so they made their own arrangements. Sanjivi tried to leave at 4.30am on Monday morning on a Qatar flight. But at the airport, he was stopped because he did not taken vaccination for yellow fever. “We began contacting officials, and we were told that he should arrive at the Port Office for vaccinations at any time today morning,” says the relative. “But when he reached there, the office was shut. It turned out that the officials had forgotten to tell them to keep the clinic open for him,” the relative said. Sanjivi was told that he could only be vaccinated on Wednesday. “When he came back home, he got a call at 3.30 pm, saying he should come back to the office for his vaccination, but now with a spare passport holder-since the rules mandate that two people must be travelling for a vial of yellow fever vaccine to be opened,” said the family member. “Firstly, this back-and-forth at such a time of crisis in inconvenient to say the least. He had family matters to take care of. There were logistical reasons that he could not go for this,” he said. The confrontation erupted into “heated words,” recounts the family member. “The Ministry of External Affairs has insisted to the media and everyone else they speak to that they are doing everything for us, but this is not true,” said the relative.“They told us that we were being ‘high-maintenance’, even though they were doing everything to help us” Sridhar and his wife had moved to Nigeria five years ago and later shifted to Kenya after he got a job with a pharma firm in Nairobi. The other Indian who died in the attack was identified as Paramshu Jain, the 8-year-old son of a banker in Nairobi. Finally after much hue and cry the Director arranged for a spare passport holder to show up pro-forma, and Sanjivi is now hoping to leave at 4.30am on Tuesday morning. “We are hoping there are no more goof-ups at the Nairobi airport,” says the relative. Manjula has already undergone one surgery, and is currently critical but stable. She is scheduled for several more macrofacial surgeries over the coming week. “There has been very little information flowing from the Ministry of External Affairs,” says the relative. “We have had to do everything for ourselves. Their reaction has been shoddy, to say the least.”

Read more at: http://www.firstpost.com/world/kenya-at ... ef_article

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 24 Sep 2013 10:38

CNN - looks like none of the arrests are inside the mall. there are still gunmen inside the mall and maybe 3 dead terrorists.

Away from the mall, Kenyan authorities said they had arrested more than 10 people for questioning in connection with the attack, including at least four taken into custody at an airport.

Authorities urged law enforcement officers to closely scrutinize travelers' documents, and the country's Immigration Department said in a tweet that it had increased security at entry and exit points.

Kenyan Foreign Minister Amina Mohamed told "PBS NewsHour" that some of the attackers had come from the United States. She said they were originally from Minnesota and Missouri, PBS reported Monday.

"As you know, both the victims and the perpetrators came from Kenya, the United Kingdom and the United States," she said. "From the information that we have, two or three Americans, and I think so far I've heard of one Brit" as being among the attackers.

"The Americans, from the information we have, are young men, about between maybe 18 and 19, of Somalia origin or Arab origin," Mohamed told PBS. She offered no other specifics.

Her comments seemed to expound on those of Gen. Julius Karangi, chief of Defense Forces.

"We have an idea who these people are and they are clearly a multinational collection from all over the world," he told reporters in Nairobi. "This is not clearly a local event. We are fighting global terrorism here."

Before its Twitter account was suspended, Al-Shabaab issued a list of the names of nine people it said were among the attackers. It said three were from the United States, two from Somalia and one each from Canada, Finland , Kenya and the United Kingdom.

Sources within Al-Shabaab also told CNN that the nine names published on Twitter were among the alleged hostage-takers, but CNN has not been able to independently confirm that.

Lilo · Post by **Lilo** » 24 Sep 2013 10:51

Why don't kenyans employ "gas" , micro UAVs etc to monitor and stop these guys in an hostage situation . Israelis should be having both if they are in the game...

Is there still nothing out there which can quickly and efficiently put to sleep people without causing big percentages in causalities as seen in Chechen Russian seiges ?

member_27444 · Post by **member_27444** » 24 Sep 2013 11:08

Plenty in MN the Somalis
Virginia and DC area Ethiopians Eritreans of course pakis

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 24 Sep 2013 11:30

Lilo wrote:Why don't kenyans employ "gas" , micro UAVs etc to monitor and stop these guys in an hostage situation . Israelis should be having both if they are in the game...

Is there still nothing out there which can quickly and efficiently put to sleep people without causing big percentages in causalities as seen in Chechen Russian seiges ?

only in hollywood scripts. top level of mall usually means a huge foot court with atrium.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 24 Sep 2013 12:38

even people of the worst nature can be expected to spare a heavily pregnant lady but not these.... her husband a architect was also shot dead.

Those killed include:
-- Dutch national Elif Yavuz, a senior vaccines researcher for the Clinton Health Access Initiative based in Tanzania. Yavuz was pregnant and expecting her first child in October, according to Julio Frenk, dean of faculty at the Harvard School of Public Health. "Elif was brilliant, dedicated, and deeply admired by her colleagues, who will miss her terribly," the Clinton family said in a statement.

habal · Post by **habal** » 24 Sep 2013 12:50

all these guys have previous experience in actively participating in butchering animals every friday or atleast in watching this activity being carried out, as is the 'normal' in backward Islamic countries with lax rule of law. So they do not carry burden of compassion. These people also make for the perfect criminals.

Recall how the kidnapped alawite children were injected with lethal chemicals and used in Syria for CW photo ops. So no conscience whatsoever. In turn they also expect to be treated like feral animals in an human habitation and as far as possible one must endeavour to satisfy their desire.

Raja Ram · Post by **Raja Ram** » 24 Sep 2013 13:07

It is not over yet. There was reported heavy gunfire since 6:30 am. Apparently there are still some more terrorists holed up. People who stay in a building adjacent reported this. Other reports filtering through states that the place has been rigged up with a lot of explosives and it is going to take time to clear.

No more hostages have been reported. But no one is sure. Apparently there is expected to be more bodies inside. It seems to me that the end game is still on and there is no way it can be said that all terrorists have been exterminated. I hope it gets done today.

While it was reported earlier that the head of the group was the "White Widow", the media and government here are saying that she was not seen inside. However, they admit that she was in Mombasa and had even left messages post the killing of some radical sheik that she wanted to go and meet him.

It is clear that she was involved. There could be an attempt to cover up her presence. Having a White Convert Woman as a Jehadi may not suit the agenda of western powers. The British Media is quite over this aspect and hence my suspicion. The Kenyan government may be under pressure to gloss over this fact.

Let us see and hope that the ordeal ends soon.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 24 Sep 2013 13:15

some women were spared, some were not - probably depended on which qat chewing sociopath you were unlucky enough to be in front of

the white widow is being openly talked about on the media, i don't think they'll hush that up

also reports of arab looking men amongst the terrorists melting into the crowd and getting away - we've heard this sort of thing before as well, including during the mumbai events

clearing the mall, shop by shop, warehouse by warehouse, service area and ducts, etc., etc. is going to be almost as tough as clearing the taj

Lilo · Post by **Lilo** » 24 Sep 2013 14:13

The most obvious mystery(mystery just because Western msm never really touches on this aspect) with regard to Samantha lewthwaite (the white widow) is how she slipped through the Briturd covert agencies, when she was an obviously radicalized wife of a Black Islamic terrorist who caused the most death and mayhem of the 7/7 tube terror attack then. If beople remember here ... The investigation went back till the ancestors village of the pakis like Rana's and Hussain's involved in the attack, How come they were not so thorough when it came to investigating Samantha and her antecedents hain ji?

Reports from that time show that she was questioned by tfta briturd agencies and completely cleared of any foreknowledge of the London tube bombings. Her statements and taqqiya profile was even circulated in media like Al-Beeb.

Now some people here might know that Al-Shabaab has long been the most tech savvy of the Jihadis tanzeems. Even its "puski" achievements were always regularly hailed as glorious victories by anglophone internet jehadis of Islamist forums like ansar etc. There were scores of radical islamists putting up selfmade english,french language materials,gif banners,English transcription of Arabic videos (in addition to the Arab or pashto or Urdu language put up by desis equivalents like umar media of TTP) on behalf of Al-shabaab .

The situation was such that if you are a neocovert White or black Islamist from londonistan,bradfordistan or Virginia or marsellies searching away in googal for Jihadi material and contacts , with >90% probability you would stumble on Al-Shabaab first before any other tanzeem . The forums even used to have "advisories" on how to communicate anonymously on internet written by old hands in the forum which just like the post dhamaka 72 houri Islamist promise, used to suggest that they can slip past the west's online surveillance setup

.

I came away with a feeling that Al-shabaab and its online recruitment drives were nothing but a Al-Ciada front to catch em tag em and leave the dumbfc' ks back into the wild.

Now coming back to white widow, there will be innumerable things about people like her (obviously she is not too bright, else she wouldn't join an org like al-kebab) which could have been used to identify her real leaning - psych analysis,historical checks, narco tests,even a lie detector test can do this. So the question remains why is she not picked up by briturd exit control list when she finally resolved herself to do her hajj to somalia through her online contact of al-kebab . she didn't take any exotic route to do this, just like other neoconvert dumbfc ks from virginia et al she booked a ticket to Kenya on a tourist visa(she being a briturd probably even doesn't require this) and then made her way into Somalia through the porus border... No questions asked anywhere.

So was West just doing its tfta online surveillance as a past time to compile thick online binders on each jehadi who flied the coop ?
All the time its neoconverts were making hajj,umrah and other assorted expeditions unhindered(now looks like "facilitated") to join al-kebab in somalia.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 24 Sep 2013 15:21

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... -live.html

this page has latest updates. two of the scum are said to have barricaded themselves in a casino. some 50+ bodies still lying around inside. has photo of the woman & and her husband I posted above and also the white widow.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 24 Sep 2013 15:44

Al-Kabab is giving out almost live updates on the progress of the siege at the mall?
They must be connected via phone to the terrorists inside, there must be a control room somewhere, in Somalia, Eritrea or Pakistan.

I wonder if the Kenyans will be able to record conversations and if we will ever get to hear them.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 24 Sep 2013 15:55

kenyan police has released an image of the white widow (samantha) on a faked south african passport - entered kenya earlier this year
this had been mentioned in the papers a few months back IIRC

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 24 Sep 2013 16:28

those living in UK would perhaps agree with me that when the culprit is a british white it takes quite a while to nab him, I'll site example of Jimmy Savile. most of the investigations and scrutiny is directed against non whites in general.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 24 Sep 2013 17:53

bbc site showing interview with kenyan satpal singh - he is upholding the valour of the khalsa, volunteered to organise the guards and helped evacuate shoppers from the mall. 'i grabbed a club from the security guard and ran downstairs where i heard the firing'

member_27444 · Post by **member_27444** » 24 Sep 2013 18:07

Small query Singha ji
What is heavily pregnant you mention in your post?

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 24 Sep 2013 18:24

Amyrao wrote:Small query Singha ji
What is heavily pregnant you mention in your post?

She was expecting in October, that means must be at least 8months pregnant, which is highly visible. It is different from 4/5 month pregnant which may not be visible at all.

panduranghari · Post by **panduranghari** » 24 Sep 2013 19:08

One brave SDRE Dr Sunil Sachdeva, who has a practice in the Westgate shopping Mall in Nairobi.
There were about 25 people in the practice, including lots of children, when the attack started.
He saw the gunmen, and told everybody to be quiet, and lie on the floor.
He turned out all the lights and locked the doors,
Only after the gunmen had moved on did he open the doors to let everybody escape.
He then stayed behind to help the red cross with the injured.

His son who is also a dentist, ran up to the roof of the car park and spoke to security forces and told them that his father had 23 people in his surgery, and they needed to get them out. The surgery was on the 4th floor, but the security forces did not know the back route, so his son volunteered to take them up there. He also showed an incredible amount of bravery, to put himself into such danger.

Dr Sachdeva gave an interview on BBC radio and he was crying towards the end of it.

Apparently the Laithwaite woman is a widow of one 7/7 bomber.

Haresh · Post by **Haresh** » 24 Sep 2013 19:16

IndraD wrote:those living in UK would perhaps agree with me that when the culprit is a british white it takes quite a while to nab him, I'll site example of Jimmy Savile. most of the investigations and scrutiny is directed against non whites in general.
those living in UK would perhaps agree with me that when the culprit is a british white it takes quite a while to nab him, I'll site example of Jimmy Savile. most of the investigations and scrutiny is directed against non whites in general.

I live in the UK and you are wrong!!!
It depends very much on the sort of offense they are investigating.
Jimmy Saville is dead, so the investigation or rather enquiry into his alledged offenses occured afterwards.

With regards to "most of the investigations and scrutiny is directed against non whites in general" how did you come to this conclusion?
If their was some sort of terror incident in the UK and the police were investigating suspects, if their were 10 brown skinned people of whom 5 were Sikh/Hindu/Buddhist/Jew/Christian and the other 5 moslem, the moslems would be pulled to one side pretty quick. If there were a further five suspects who were white, so would they be.
The security/police agencies have realised that islamic terrorists come in all colours and that quite a few are white. They may initially look at a brown face, but once they realise that you are not a moslem they will not bother with you. I have experiences this.
So sorry but I don't agree with you!!

panduranghari · Post by **panduranghari** » 24 Sep 2013 19:25

Haresh wrote:
IndraD wrote:those living in UK would perhaps agree with me that when the culprit is a british white it takes quite a while to nab him, I'll site example of Jimmy Savile. most of the investigations and scrutiny is directed against non whites in general.
those living in UK would perhaps agree with me that when the culprit is a british white it takes quite a while to nab him, I'll site example of Jimmy Savile. most of the investigations and scrutiny is directed against non whites in general.
I live in the UK and you are wrong!!!
It depends very much on the sort of offense they are investigating.
Jimmy Saville is dead, so the investigation or rather enquiry into his alledged offenses occured afterwards.

With regards to "most of the investigations and scrutiny is directed against non whites in general" how did you come to this conclusion?
If their was some sort of terror incident in the UK and the police were investigating suspects, if their were 10 brown skinned people of whom 5 were Sikh/Hindu/Buddhist/Jew/Christian and the other 5 moslem, the moslems would be pulled to one side pretty quick. If there were a further five suspects who were white, so would they be.
The security/police agencies have realised that islamic terrorists come in all colours and that quite a few are white. They may initially look at a brown face, but once they realise that you are not a moslem they will not bother with you. I have experiences this.
So sorry but I don't agree with you!!

Haresh ji. You MAY be correct. But overall the attitude is very much xenophobic. The xenophobia at lower levels where one may be a supermarket worker or a office assistant is covert. Once you rise through the ranks, it gets overt. Don't say i don't know. I know, been there.

Varoon Shekhar · Post by **Varoon Shekhar** » 24 Sep 2013 19:41

"They may initially look at a brown face, but once they realise that you are not a moslem they will not bother with you. I have experiences this."

Yes, I've had a couple of these experiences as well. One was at the Milwaukee, Wisconsin airport 2 years ago. I had carelessly neglected to sign my passport, which caused the security attendant to pull me aside. Once the older female superior came in and saw the combination of my Canadian passport with my Hindu name, she became apologetic and motherly.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 24 Sep 2013 20:16

AmyRao, GD was referring to the lady being obvoiusly pregnant. Off all the things in the thread is that what piqued your curiousity?

member_27444 · Post by **member_27444** » 24 Sep 2013 20:38

We need to excel at writing was the intention.
Nothing more to it. As much as my asking is inappropriate the phrase was as well funny in a dire situation. No disrespect or slight at all and of course malice to none.

Oh by the way
The report about the lady shot dead must have been incorrectly reported to be affiliated with research institute.

I think she was working for IAVI International Aids Vaccine research Institute head quartered in Amsterdam NL

SHQ had done a global fellowship with them in South Africa. I was there too for a month and saw their inspiring work and also the sad case of quackery advocated by South African health minister. It's OT any way

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 24 Sep 2013 22:56

kenyan president making a speech

death toll
61 civilians
6 security forces
5 terrorists

no further breakdown
uk police have sent team out to help with gathering forensics

telegraph newspaper shows image of what is supposed to be an off-duty SAS soldier helping evacuate civilians. he is wearing jeans but has a pistol tucked into his belt. i wonder if it is standard procedure for these guys to be armed when in kenya off duty...? british forces routinely pass through kenya for training, so not a big surprise

kenyan soldiers report finding both alive and dead inside the debris, several floors have collapsed in the mall, lots and lots of broken glass everywhere

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 24 Sep 2013 23:27

Lalmohan, Britain has a fairly large military base in Kenya in Nanyuki. Beautiful area. However, that chap does not look to me like a Brit. I noticed him in some of the local footage by his rather interesting leather jacket (design wise, very short cut - unusual). He was also checking the bags of people coming out. It did not look like he was operating "off duty". That was just my perception of course. If I had to pin a nationality on him offhand, I would say he was an Israeli embassy security guy... But like I said, that's just my perception. Whatever the case may be, he was definitely a very useful individual - at least as per the times I noticed him in the local channel footage.

Varoon Shekhar · Post by **Varoon Shekhar** » 24 Sep 2013 23:50

Still awaiting details about how the terrorists entered the mall in the first place- this is the 4th day, for crying out loud. The report on the breakdown of the nationalities/ethnicities, particularly among the missing people, is still vague at best. Just yesterday, there were reportedly at least 50 people unaccounted for- what are their backgrounds, and most of all, what happened to them?

Also, there appears to be a reluctance( by the international media) to show what the local Kenyan media is doing, and what information they have unearthed. You would think that Kenya doesn't have a media of its own, or one that is carrying out its own investigation. Wouldn't they be tripping over themselves to obtain the most details, after all its their own country! Even from a coldly practical standpoint, the various Kenyan papers and TV channels would want to get the "scoop" first.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 25 Sep 2013 00:04

Kenya President calls siege over and calls for national mounring

http://www.newvision.co.ug/news/647592- ... -over.html

What did MMS do after 26/11?

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 25 Sep 2013 01:09

sexual assault, mutilation carried out during siege
http://www.theweek.co.uk/africa/nairobi ... siege-ends

Lilo · Post by **Lilo** » 25 Sep 2013 01:44

^^
This thing about separating limbs and burning faces is strange when I came across it .

Bodies mutilated: One security officer said the shopping centre looked like an "abattoir" half an hour after the attackers stormed the building on Saturday. The militants reportedly burned their victims’ faces and removed their hands in an attempt to conceal their identities. Bodies were also piled against the main door to stop rescue teams from entering.

Muslims spared: The attackers reportedly told Muslims they could leave, carrying out basic tests such as asking them to recite the Koran. Those who failed were executed, including children. One witness told the BBC he was released after showing his ID with a Muslim-sounding name, but an Indian man standing next to him was shot dead when he could not name the prophet Mohammed's mother.

Sexual abuse: One woman said she was sexually abused at gunpoint in front of young hostages. She was shot in the shoulder and her child was killed, according to the Daily Mail. She spoke to her husband, who was outside the shopping centre, several times by telephone, but he then heard nothing from her for several hours.

Lack of communication: Many people were able to tweet, text or call friends and relatives from inside the mall on Saturday but by nightfall batteries were dead. Officials warned families on the outside not to call missing relatives amid reports that the attackers had shot a hostage whose mobile phone rang. Relatives therefore had little way of knowing if their loved ones were alive.

Hiding places: Witnesses have described how they desperately hid around the shopping centre to avoid being hurt or killed. Store managers ushered people into their shops and hurriedly pulled down flimsy metal shutters. Others found safer hiding spots, such as the thick-doored vaults in several bank branches. Some hid in dark cinema theatres with lockable doors or the stitching room of a supermarket’s upholstery section. Many who were stuck on the main concourse played dead.

Children shot: The terrorists appeared to give little thought to killing or injuring children during the attack, with some young people shot in the face and chest. British businessman Louis Bawa is today mourning the deaths of his wife, Zahira, and eight-year-old daughter, Jennah. Another British father said his wife, who had shielded their children from bullets, was having surgery while his children were left bewildered by their experience. "They wanted to see their mother," he told the Daily Telegraph. "They also wanted to know how much blood a person can lose before they die."

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 25 Sep 2013 02:01

I hope Kenya brings back death by beheading.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 25 Sep 2013 02:10

ramana wrote:I hope Kenya brings back death by beheading.

Ram Ram, Here is expected response from Indian Eeelites
http://www.ndtv.com/article/world/we-ar ... topstories

'We are not monsters,' Nairobi attacker told British child

London: One of the Islamist attackers besieging a Nairobi shopping mall handed chocolate to a four-year-old British boy caught up in the crisis and asked for forgiveness, his uncle told a newspaper today.Four-year-old Elliott Prior, who had been shopping with his mother and sister at the Westgate mall when it came under attack on Saturday, confronted one of the militants, telling him "you're a very bad man," his uncle told The Sun.Alex Coutts said the attacker took pity on the family and allowed them to escape, handing the children Mars bars as he told them: "Please forgive me, we are not monsters."Elliott and his sister Amelie, both clearly distraught, were later pictured outside the mall, clutching the chocolate as a dead body lay behind them. The Sun reported that their mother Amber, a film producer, had scooped up two other children - including a wounded 12-year-old whose mother had been murdered -- and pushed them outside in a shopping trolley."They had a lucky escape," said Coutts."The terrorists said if any kids were alive in the supermarket they could leave. Amber made a decision to stand up and say, 'Yes'."Then Elliott argued with them and called them bad men. He was very brave."The terrorists even gave the kids Mars bars."The family, who live in Nairobi, had been on a regular visit to a supermarket inside the mall.One of the militants told the children's mother he only wanted to kill Kenyans and Americans, The Sun quoted her as saying."He told me I had to change my religion to Islam and said, 'Do you forgive us?'" she said.