West Asia News and Discussions

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Philip
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Philip »

Another good piece by Fisk.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/com ... 03808.html
Robert Fisk
Sunday 8 September 2013

Syria intervention: Would Operation Biffing Arabs be the best name for it?

America in Lebanon’s civil war in the 1980s, just as it is poised to do in Syria's

Almost exactly 30 years ago today, I was having breakfast with my landlord below my home on the Beirut Corniche. The date was 19 September 1983, but nothing has changed – neither Mustapha’s little garden with its yellow and red flowers, my balcony two storeys above, nor the butterflies that settle on the flowers, nor the great bright blue Mediterranean in front of us. I am writing this on that same balcony. We were drinking our third or fourth hot sticky Arabic coffee that morning when we saw the American destroyer the USS John Rodgers making smoke as she moved along the seafront. She passed close to us. We could even see the naval crew on the upper deck and the Stars and Stripes drifting in the warm breeze.

Then there came from the vessel a hollow, popping sound. It was a very dull series of reports, as if someone were playing tennis under the sea. As I wrote later, there was nothing warlike about it. Mustapha fetched his binoculars and I focused on the warship. The glasses caught a puff of smoke, nothing more than a smudge near the for’ard 5in gun. A few seconds later, there was another pop and then I saw a shell case – a brass shell case glinting gold under the sun – bounce off the deck and spin right off the ship into the sea. Pop-pop. Another bright gold casing splashed into the water. Thus did the Americans go to war in Lebanon.

It made no sense to us. America was firing at Syrian-supported Druze militiamen in the Chouf mountains who were trying to destroy the (dubiously) elected government of President Amine Gemayel, whom President Ronald Reagan, and Israel, wanted to rule Lebanon. Washington had taken sides in a civil war and was now fully committed to preserving one bunch of Lebanese against another bunch of Lebanese. In the US, apparently, it all made sense. Reagan had backed Gemayel and now Reagan’s honour was at risk. I shall not speak of parallels.

I was reminded of this Conradian scene by a deeply moving article by my old friend Rami Khouri which appeared last week in a local Beirut paper I rarely buy. I often quote my Arab colleagues by name but usually not in quotation. But Rami’s piece in the Daily Star was brilliant.

He described how a few years ago, just before the Syrian war, he received a letter from Peggy Stelpflug, the mother of Corporal Bill Stelpflug, a US Marine sent to Lebanon in May of 1983 and of how Peggy and her family “enjoy special credibility in asking about the appropriateness of American military attacks in the Arab world”.

And Rami quotes a letter home from Bill, written in Beirut on 7 September 1983 – 30 years ago last Saturday. “I am alive and well,” the young Marine told his family. “Maybe a little dirty, tired and shell-shocked, but walking and talking. Our ‘war’ just lasted three full days so far. Two more Marines have been killed by rockets and more wounded … We have been taking rockets and bullets … we have been shooting back with some effect, mainly snipers or destroying rocket positions with artillery … I am filthy, and bone sore, and 100 per cent fit … It worries me more to know that ya’ll worry about me more than I worry about me … I think Beirut is just a realistic training base for the US Marine Corps … Won’t go out of my way to be a hero or anything like that. Just doing my time in this Mediterranean junk yard. Thinking of home. Love you all very much.”

The day after he wrote this letter, the USS Bowen – a close cousin of the USS John Rodgers which was shooting off my home on the Corniche – opened fire on the same target: Syrian-supported forces in the Chouf. And on 23 October the same year, an Islamist truck-bomber drove to his suicide by exploding his vehicle in the US Marine headquarters beside the airport. I still remember how the air pressure changed inside my own home when that bomb went off. It killed 241 US service personnel. And I recall how I saw with my own eyes the bodies of many of the dead Marines laid out beside the rubble of their headquarters. Six days later, an officer visited the Stelpflug family home in Auburn, Alabama, and told Peggy and her husband that their son, Bill, had been killed by the bomb.

Rami wrote about his conversations with Peggy and spoke of how enlightened he was by the family’s “noble reactions”. He shared their feelings that “Bill’s life, service and death could enrich ‘our common desire to learn from each other in the cause of advancing our shared humanity … and that the lessons of his life and death would perhaps be illuminating for others’.”

But Rami’s penultimate paragraph deserves to be read in full: “It is appropriate today – 30 years after American ships shelled the Lebanese mountains – that all of us be very sure that, before American men and women are sent again to attack Arab targets, citizens like the Stelpflug family are credibly consulted on such an important decision. Those expressing scepticism in the opinion polls deserve a clear answer. So do the Syrian people. So does the world.”

Against journalism of this standard, I must remain silent. It says it all.

Operation Punitive Endeavour?

If – and I repeat “if” because I’m still not at all sure Barack Obama really is going to war in Syria on the back of his own words – there has to be a name for this ridiculous adventure, what will it be called? Churchill used to warn his lads that they should never, ever, give a military operation a stupid name since widows would not want to hear that their husbands died in a ridiculous battle. So I suppose the most honest operational name – Operation Biffing the Arabs Again – is out. So is Operation Bashing Bashar. In keeping with Obama’s evangelical streak, Operation Punishment is probably a bit too revealing – but I suspect Operation Punitive Endeavour might do the trick. Most people will be too lazy to look up “punitive” in the dictionary and “endeavour” is a great work, hinting at enormous struggle hinged to deep morality (which is what Obama’s rhetoric is supposed to be about).

And then – again, “if” America attacks – we must have a good string of excuses for the hospitals/buses/civilian targets we hit. “Collateral damage” will no doubt be churned out by defence correspondents but it is wearing a bit thin. If a cruise missile does hit the roof of the Umayyad mosque in Damascus, however, I will remember well the lies we used when a plane fired missiles into a crowded Baghdad market during a sandstorm in 2003. It was not a missile. It was an Iraqi anti-aircraft rocket that had misfired and crashed into the people.

The same was said in Libya in 1985 when American weapons destroyed the lives of civilians in Tripoli. It was a Libyan anti-aircraft missile that killed them. This was swiftly disproved – so was the lie about the Iraqi rocket. But wait for the Syrian anti-aircraft rocket that kills its own people. It’s an old one. But so is biffing the Arabs.
habal
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by habal »

What is curious is that both Obama and bandar have the same half-blood character. Is one using the other or are both being used, that is the interesting question. Is bandar a lilliput who is being used, or is he the puppet-master ! Since Saudi intelligence agencies manage Al-Ciaida and 9/11 attackers were all Saudis, it is highly likely it was a self-inflicted wound to give the pretext for endless war.

If any doubts remain on this front, look at this, he wins his case again. lol
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... -9-11.html

It is also interesting that the elitist jewry and wahabbist bandar are all on the same side and supported by anglo-saxon military. Either one or the other is in a state of constant provocation of war. Something or other is always going on with this group. The real dar-ul harb and dar-ul-peace is decided by this group. This has become the de-facto axis of evil, the danger that lurks and is grievous threat to world security. They have tied up entire sections of human mass under various spells and illusions. Rest are being beaten up or are under threat of war. A literal sword of the beast.

Tunisian Women Sex Jihadists Returning Home Pregnant

http://youtu.be/e_XOb8pmrDo
Philip
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Philip »

A good way to for the production of another generation of jihadis! Pardon the analysis,but it seems to me that it is a good way in which frustrated women in repressed societies of the Middle East can also get their jollies (all approved by mullahdom!) from the Jihadis,a sort of "sampling" before getting their "72s" what?
habal
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by habal »

mean-e-while something got stolen

Image
ramana
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by ramana »

Are there any drawings of the 330 mm rocket supposed to be used?

-------------------------------

answering my own question:
Google has a pdf of the supposed rocket. Looks like the potato smashere grenade of the Nazis.

Looks pretty crude for a state army to use!!!

http://www.hrw.org/sites/default/files/ ... iagram.pdf
habal
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by habal »

there is a part-leak of UN initial investigation on this thread giving many different pics of rockets used.

meanwhile let's not totally ignore the club of liars, pls include the very famous Anderson Cooper of CNN. Heir to a famous Astor family,

http://edwardmd.wordpress.com/2013/09/0 ... on-videos/

here is an article talking about the assorted soldiers of fortune, assembled from the caucasus by the bandar to fight his war in Syria.

http://en.rian.ru/world/20130920/183614 ... --FSB.html

also read the comments
apparently those who live amidst these caucasian muslims back home in their native, are not left to fend for themselves like the local hindu jat and gujjar, but are armed to the teeth.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Pranav »

No time left for negotiations with Iran: Israeli minister
Reuters September 20, 2013 6:34 AM

JERUSALEM (Reuters) - Iran is on course to develop a nuclear bomb within six months and time has run out for further negotiations, a senior Israeli minister said.

http://news.yahoo.com/no-time-left-nego ... 29438.html
habal
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by habal »

time is always running out for Israel. Al Quds force commander Major General Qasem Suleimani is leading the charge in Syria with Assad taking a back seat. Israeli's desperately want to attack Iran to undercut Al Quds and then give the benefit of surprise to mount a rebel counter offensive in Syria.

bottomline is whatever Israel does, always helps the bandar wahabbis and sunni coalition.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Austin »

Pranav wrote:No time left for negotiations with Iran: Israeli minister
Reuters September 20, 2013 6:34 AM

JERUSALEM (Reuters) - Iran is on course to develop a nuclear bomb within six months and time has run out for further negotiations, a senior Israeli minister said.

http://news.yahoo.com/no-time-left-nego ... 29438.html
The Israel keep saying that every year ....Year on Year ......... atleast since past 5 years I have been hearing Israel/US will attack Iran soon.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Lilo »

The Syria game had some delicious moments, such as a secret visit to Moscow by Saudi Prince Bandar bin Sultan on July 31. Saudi Arabia’s intelligence chief offered Putin a deal: Moscow should stop its support for Damascus and Riyadh would reward it by keeping oil prices high, safeguarding Russia’s gas exports to Europe, and buying billions worth of Russian weapons.

Putin had no intention of cutting deals with Prince Bandar, called by the media “CIA’s man in Riyadh”, but now he knew what Saudi and U.S. secret services were up to. An old KGB hand, Putin did not miss Prince Bandar’s veiled threats when he offered to “protect” the 2014 Winter Olympics in Russia against Chechen rebels and warned that there would be “no escape from the military option” if Moscow did not dump Assad. Therefore, reports that Saudi Arabia was behind the August 21 chemical attack did not come as a surprise to Putin
http://www.frontline.in/world-affairs/t ... ?css=print

Confirmed by MSM now :D : Bandar threatening terrorist attacks by Chechen proxies on Winter Olympics and offering "protection" from this threat in return for Russia's cooperation on Syria.
Initially when these reports came moi thought they were not real as i thought that Saudi dog knew its place and half expected it to behave well(if not diplomatically) in presence of Big bad Bear.
It tried to bark its way forward but came back yelping.A poorly trained dog by Massa.

Exposes how Saudi Barbaria conducts it Diplomacy - blackmailing through threats of terror and mayhem .
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

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US ‘overtly blackmailing’ Moscow on Syria - Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov

The US is trying to blackmail Russia and the world by forcing its upside-down Syria peace scenario on the international community, Russia’s foreign minister Sergei Lavrov said Sunday in an interview to the country’s main TV channel, Channel One.
The foreign chief accused Washington of excessively politicking the Syrian crisis. He said the US was using the civil was in the Middle East to “assert its supremacy” in order to make the region “dance to their tune.”

Mr. Lavrov stressed this approach had nothing to do with the long-overdue peace process and the Russia-backed plan to take away chemical weapons from the Assad regime.

The foreign minister called on the US to come to terms with the fact that the world had become “polycentric” and it was not good forcing America’s opinions onto it.

It is the first time that the usually unruffled Russian foreign minister has lashed out at Moscow’s western partners. The tone of Lavrov’s comment in his interview with Russia’s Channel One shows how deep the tensions seem to run between Russia and China on the one hand and the US-UK-France coalition on the other.

Lavrov’s interview came ahead of his trip to New York where he is to attend the UN General Assembly. The upcoming days are described as a “ministerial week,” during which the Russian foreign chief is expected to meet with US Secretary of State John Kerry and other senior diplomats. The anticipation is that the trilateral talks between Sergei Lavrov, John Kerry and UN head Ban Ki-moon will kick-start a new peace conference on Syria, dubbed Geneva 2.

The recent publication of UN inspectors’ report on Syria’s chemical toxins have given way to a large number of insinuations, proving that the West never genuinely needed a probe in the first place, Mr. Lavrov said.

“The US and France never actually pretended to make too much of this report. They claimed to know everything beforehand, saying their intelligence was flawless, although we were never presented with full data, while the evidence they chose to show us didn’t prove that chemical weapons had been involved,” Lavrov told Channel One.

The Russian foreign minister noted that an open letter by CIA and Pentagon veterans to the US President that was published before the UN probe, on September 8, said that the alleged August 21 chemical attack near Damascus was a provocation.

The letter accused CIA Director John Brennan of trying to repeat the Iraq scenario by misleading the Americans and Congress once again. The concerned American vets cited Britain’s intelligence as saying that the Syrian government was not implicated in the gassing of civilians. The call went unnoticed.

Mr. Lavrov has claimed that the US intentionally span the UN report to force its approach onto Russia and the international community.

“Our Western partners are starting to blackmail us: if we don’t endorse UN Security Council’s Chapter 7 resolution we will effectively annul OPCW’s work in The Hague. It runs against everything we agreed with John Kerry – that is we wait for OPCW’s decision and then shore it up with a Security Council resolution, though not under Chapter 7.”

Sergei Lavrov suggested that the West saw the Russia-US brokered deal on Syria’s chemical weapons not as an opportunity to rid the world of the existing toxic arsenal, but as “a chance to push through the Russian-Chinese block a brute-force resolution that aims to topple the regime and gloss over opposition’s actions, to assign the blame to Bashar Assad and get a free hand for military scenarios.”

“They [the West] can’t admit their mistake. They made a mistake in Libya when they bombed the country and pushed it on the brink of fallout, they made a mistake in Iraq where they did all the same things in addition to launching a land operation and wreaking havoc in the country which sees dozens of innocents die every passing day at the hand of terrorists. It’s no one’s concern anymore. Now everyone is saying that Bashar Assad must go. Of course, they don’t want to talk about a catastrophe that that series of military operations has caused in the region.” :cry:

The Russian foreign policy vet underscored that two in three opposition militants are jihadists bent on turning Syria into an Islamic Caliphate. This can unleash a disaster in the entire Middle East. He also fought back the recent attempts to pile responsibility for elimination of Syria’s chemical arsenal on Russia.

“I’d like to point out that we cannot guarantee that Syria will give up its chemical weapons. We saw to it that Syria joined the anti-chemical weapons convention without any reservations, as the Americans did once. Now Syria is a liable party to this document, meaning that the international community – or the OPCW for this matter – is to guarantee that Syria complies with it.”

Sergei Lavrov also pointed out that international community didn’t need to send its troops to Syria to monitor the process of chemical weapons disposal. He said that police were enough to secure OPCW inspectors and offered Russian security forces to take up this task.
Last edited by Austin on 22 Sep 2013 16:06, edited 1 time in total.
Austin
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Austin »

Lilo wrote:Prince Bandar’s veiled threats when he offered to “protect” the 2014 Winter Olympics in Russia against Chechen rebels and warned that there would be “no escape from the military option” if Moscow did not dump Assad. Therefore, reports that Saudi Arabia was behind the August 21 chemical attack did not come as a surprise to Putin
I personally doubt there is any truth that Bandar threatened Putin that Sochi Olympics would be a bloody one if he didnt dumped Assad ......if he had ever said that he would be taken straight to the basement of FSB HQ and shot on the head ....keeping Saudi wondering why he didnt returned back.

More like rumour that took a life of its own and it originated some where in Gulf quoting Russian sources :roll:
member_27444
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by member_27444 »

But when is the next something big is going to happen?
A body any idea from inside or outside sources
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by RamaY »

Amyrao wrote:But when is the next something big is going to happen?
A body any idea from inside or outside sources
Next Fridin. If not the following Fridin.

It will be definitely on the Fridin.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Philip »

How Russia became Syria’s deterrent.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/com ... 33037.html
Robert Fisk

Sunday 22 September 2013
Into the Minotaur’s cave of diplomacy: how Russia became Syria’s deterrent

The Syrians, who often memorise poetry, like Lavrov: they believe he writes it in his spare time

The Syrian delegation to Moscow left Damascus on the night of Saturday 7 September, as much to find out its fate as to negotiate.

The US President Barack Obama and the Russian President Vladimir Putin had been hatching their plan to prevent American missile strikes and Walid Muallem, Syria’s extremely shrewd Foreign Minister, had no idea what it was. Far from bringing specific proposals to Russia, he wanted to know what the Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov knew – if he knew anything at all.

It was a weird situation. Syria did not want to be attacked by the US after sarin gas was used in Damascus on the night of 21 August, but it must have been clear that the Syrian regime – the principal target of American cruise missiles – had been cut out. Russia was making the decisions.

Muallem and his team – who are well-known in the Arab world and especially in Iran (and in the good old days, in London, Washington and Paris) – arrived at Sheremetyevo airport exhausted at dawn on Sunday 8 September, checking in, as they always did in Moscow, at the President beside the Moskva river, a cavernous and soulless hotel of the Brezhnev era. Their appointment with Lavrov was set for Monday at the Russian foreign ministry and Muallem and his delegation, still tired from their overnight flight, talked to Damascus and watched the satellite television shows out of Washington.

This was a moment in Syria’s history of which Muallem and his colleagues were all too aware. The foreign policy of Syria – or perhaps its military policy – was being decided by others. And so it came to pass that on 9 September, Muallem sat opposite Lavrov in the ministry. The Russian Foreign Minister bluntly told the Syrians what he thought. It was obvious from the start that he believed that Obama was going to strike their country.

This was not good news, especially when Lavrov made it clear that the operation would “definitely” take place. There was some discussion before Muallem stated his own country’s position: that “if the real reason for the proposed aggression against Syria was the chemicals, then diplomatic means have not been exhausted”. The Syrians like Lavrov – they believe (with what proof I have no idea) that he writes poetry in his spare time, something which would naturally appeal to a people who often learn Arabic poetry by heart before they can write. “He is a good friend to the Arabs,” is a constant refrain in Damascus. Readers must be left to decide if this is true.

Digging like a sleuth for the details of Russian-Syrian diplomacy – never mind the extraordinary military relationship – is like wandering the cave of the Minotaur. A wrong turning can put you in danger, a long-standing friend lost forever, a contact angered, an official enraged by an understanding lost in translation. So as your correspondent in Damascus tip-toes through Russian and Syrian sources, he must remember the risks. This is the best I can do and I have every reason to believe it is spot on. It is a story that tells you about the future Syrian state.

In any event, Lavrov broke off the conversation by telling Muallem that he was going at once to see President Putin at the Kremlin. “I will get back to you,” he peremptorily told the Syrians. Muallem again insisted that “diplomacy is not exhausted”. He must have hoped he was right; after all, if he was wrong, he might not have a Damascus airport to return to.

The Syrians returned to the bleak President hotel for lunch. In Washington, John Kerry was blathering on with more threats. Syria must hand over chemical weapons. They only had a week to hand over an inventory. At 5pm Lavrov called Muallem. They should meet in an hour. There was to be a press conference.

All along, Muallem had insisted that Syria wanted to sign the treaty banning chemical weapons. Yet everyone – not least the Russians – knew that Syria’s chemical arsenal was its only deep strategic defence if the country faced a doomsday war with Israel. Still Muallem did not know what was in store for him. He and his colleagues had not slept for 36 hours. Lavrov was worried for different reasons. If the Americans hit Syria, they would destroy Bashar al-Assad’s army, Islamists might storm into Damascus and Russian forces – with a naval base and marines in the Syrian port of Tartus and other warships at sea in the eastern Mediterranean – would be “forced to react”. This, at least, is the Russian version of events.

Now Lavrov told Muallem of Putin’s deal: all Syria’s chemical weapons to be monitored, details handed over within days, all stocks to be under international control within a year. And the Russians would be most grateful if Muallem – at a press conference that evening – would be good enough to agree. Muallem called Damascus. He talked to the government and of course to Syrian President Bashar al-Assad. He agreed. And so a long-faced, exhausted Muallem appeared in front of the world’s television cameras – apparently almost overwhelmed with exhaustion – to “say yes” (in the words of the Russians).

Syria wanted to save its people from aggression and placed complete confidence in its Russian friends. One of his assistants, Bouthaina Shaaban – who is also an adviser to Assad – looked equally overwhelmed.

Afterwards, Muallem told Lavrov that the agreement took from Syria its “No 1” weapon. And Lavrov replied: “Your best weapon is us.”

And that was it. Syria’s strategic deterrent had become Moscow. Kremlin rules.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Philip »

This NY Times report is telling. If the Saudis do manage to engineer strikes against Syria,"shooting from shoulder" of the US/West,then it will be fair game for anyone to strike directly at it and its interests too.Qatar ,another patron of Sunni state terror,is merely "a TV station and a petrol pump ",as one Saudi prince sneered,is a spot on the map,and the other UAE nations aren't much larger.It would be intriguing to see what reaction would be from Russia if one of its warships or assets in Syria were hit.A couple of BMs up the Saudi's backside would send a telling and pointed (pun intended) message.As in an earlier post,Syria,in all reality,has become Russia's Israel,where it has to plant its flag to retain any influence in the ME and retain its superpower stature in global affairs.Further Saudi mischief would only bring Russia into a closer embrace with Shiite states like Iran and one can see deliveries of more robust mil. hardware to the Iranians in the near future.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/21/opini ... UID__&_r=0
Saudi Arabia’s Proxy Wars
By FAHAD NAZER
Published: September 20, 2013

Saudi Arabia appears resolute: It wants Bashar al-Assad out of Damascus. The Saudis view the fighting in Syria with the same intensity that they did the civil war in Yemen that raged in the 1960s — as a conflict with wide and serious repercussions that will shape the political trajectory of the Middle East for years to come.
Related News

Syrian Rebels Say Saudi Arabia Is Stepping Up Weapons Deliveries (September 13, 2013)
Times Topic: Saudi Arabia

The Syrian war presents the Saudis with a chance to hit three birds with one stone: Iran, its rival for regional dominance, Tehran’s ally Assad, and his Hezbollah supporters. But Riyadh’s policy makers are wary. They know that once fully committed, it will be difficult to disengage. And so they are taking to heart the lessons of another regional war that flared on their border 50 years ago.

The war in Yemen that broke out in 1962 when military leaders ousted the centuries-old monarchy and declared a republic quickly turned into a quagmire that sucked in foreign powers. The Soviet Union provided the new regime with air support. British airstrikes aided the royalists and the United States offered warplanes in a symbolic show of force.

More than anything else though, the conflict became a proxy war between Saudi Arabia, which backed the deposed imam and his royalist supporters, and Egypt’s Gamal Abdel Nasser, who supported the new republic. Nasser’s vision of a united Arab “nation” free of Western domination and sterile monarchies resonated across the Arab world. The Saudi monarchy, wary of this republican fever on its border, decided it was not going to stand on the sidelines. The kingdom used all available means to try to check Nasser’s ambitions — but it did not send troops.

By some estimates, Egypt sent as many as 55,000 troops to Yemen, some of whom became involved in fighting well inside Saudi territory, while others were accused of using chemical weapons supplied by the Soviet Union. Saudi Arabia provided money and weapons to the royalists. Yet neither side achieved its goals. Egypt’s war with Israel in 1967 led Nasser to withdraw his forces, but the Saudis were unable to turn the tide. Riyadh was eventually forced to recognize Yemen’s republican government.

Now as then, Riyadh sees the struggle in Syria as a defining moment. As the leader of the Sunni Muslim world, it perceives an opportunity to check what it sees as Iranian plans to encircle the kingdom with hostile Shiite-dominated regimes. As the war has taken on a more sectarian character, the usually reserved foreign minister, Prince Saud al-Faisal, has described Assad’s onslaught against his own people as “genocide” and Syrian lands as being “under occupation” — a clear reference to the presence of Iranian and Hezbollah forces.

It is no secret that the Saudis are supplying elements of the Syrian opposition with weapons. They all but admitted as much when the prince said a few weeks ago that “if the international community is not willing to do anything, then they must allow Syrians to defend themselves.”

The Saudis will use all tools available to oust Assad, while taking measures to ensure that the weapons they’re supplying to the rebels do not fall into the hands of extremists. Nevertheless, following the chemical attack on civilians near Damascus last month, the Saudi foreign minister spoke candidly about the inability of the Arab nations to put a stop to Assad’s campaign through force of arms, adding that any military effort to do so would likely involve actors outside the region. Recent suggestions that the Arab League should assemble a military force to check Assad’s aggression do not seem viable. Disagreements among the league’s member nations have prevented it from agreeing to even endorse a potential U.S. strike.

But on Monday, the Saudi Council of Ministers issued a strong statement making clear that it considered preventing another chemical attack by Assad to be only a short-term goal. In the long-term, he must be ousted.

Saudi Arabia will intensify its efforts to arm the rebels and to use its media outlets and diplomatic clout to rally support for a military strike. Although the kingdom is known for using its troops sparingly, it has done so judiciously in the past. Riyadh did, for example, send troops to Bahrain to show its support for the Sunni regime in the face of extended mass protests. Of course, Syria is not Bahrain, but neither is Saudi Arabia the same country that it was in the 1960s, when it failed to achieve its goals in Yemen.

The oil-rich kingdom of today wields far greater influence than it did half a century ago. There is no question that it will wield that influence forcefully, supporting the rebels with guns and diplomacy as it struggles to outmaneuver Iran, outflank Hezbollah and oust Assad.

Fahad Nazer is a former political analyst with the Saudi Embassy in Washington.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by habal »

Gen Sisi is turning out to be the Egyptian Chavez or Castro.

http://en.alalam.ir/news/1519298
Qatar’s Egyptian national notorious mufti, Sheikh Yusuf al-Qaradawi, will be arrested immediately if he is found to set foot in Egypt, following his support to the Muslim brotherhood and his hostile remarks about Egypt’s Grand Sheikh of Al-Azhar.
Egypt's chief prosecutor Hisham Barakat issued an arrest warrant for Qaradawi, on accusation of inciting the killing of Egyptian security forces and meddling in the country’s affairs.
Qaradawi has been a major critic of the country’s army following the ouster of Egypt’s first democratically elected president, Mohamed Morsi, in July 3.
--
http://www.middle-east-online.com/english/?id=61487

Egypt to Qatar in a composed tone: Here is your $2 billion deposit, take it!
TSJones
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by TSJones »

Philip wrote:This NY Times report is telling. If the Saudis do manage to engineer strikes against Syria,"shooting from shoulder" of the US/West,then it will be fair game for anyone to strike directly at it and its interests too.Qatar ,another patron of Sunni state terror,is merely "a TV station and a petrol pump ",as one Saudi prince sneered,is a spot on the map,and the other UAE nations aren't much larger.It would be intriguing to see what reaction would be from Russia if one of its warships or assets in Syria were hit.A couple of BMs up the Saudi's backside would send a telling and pointed (pun intended) message.As in an earlier post,Syria,in all reality,has become Russia's Israel,where it has to plant its flag to retain any influence in the ME and retain its superpower stature in global affairs.Further Saudi mischief would only bring Russia into a closer embrace with Shiite states like Iran and one can see deliveries of more robust mil. hardware to the Iranians in the near future.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/21/opini ... UID__&_r=0
Saudia Arabia and the Gulf States have nothing to fear from Russia.
habal
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by habal »

a rogue nation itching to deploy new weapons obtained by questionable means ..

Secret technology pushing US into military adventures

The development of military technology, beginning with the Strategic Defense Initiative of the Reagan presidency, has given the US capabilities that have remained “dark,” not just secret but “deniable” as well.

Now that America has these things, they now want to use them and what better place to test non-existent technology than Syria?

Nukes
America’s new addition is to its new generation of nuclear weapons developed at Livermore labs after 1991.

New weapons can be dialed to achieve little or no blast. It is impossible to determine if any large explosion is nuclear or conventional. Nuclear weapons, when used, are claimed to be conventional weapons that hit “arms caches” or “fuel depots.”

Some weapons known as Minimal Residual Radiation (MRR) weapons produce ionizing radiation for only a few hundred yards and all detectable radiation is gone in 72 hours.

Other nuclear weapons are “tuned” to destroy particular materials. Some can destroy steel, turning it into a powder. These are designed to be used on naval targets.

Other nukes are “tuned” to destroy chemical weapons without spreading toxic materials for miles as happened in Iraq. These weapons are now on the Tomahawk missiles deployed in the Mediterranean to be used against Syria.

This is one of the reasons President Obama and Secretary Kerry have been so “cryptic” in discussing their attack plans, how large, how long?
This is why “boots on the ground” is considered unneeded. “Nukes on the ground” is what is planned instead.

Historically, these weapons have been used in Iraq and Afghanistan many times. There are also reports from nuclear weapons experts that the Marine barracks in Beirut may have been hit with a nuclear weapon, another used in Oklahoma City and another still in Bali.

There is clear proof one was used outside Damascus on May 4, 2013. When videos of the mushroom cloud and ball lightning went viral, there was no attempt at a denial.

Control and spin
A key component of a “secret nuke” strategy is calling any reports that contradict official mythology “conspiracy theory.” Pundits and comedians like Jon Stewart, Wolf Blitzer or Rush Limbaugh are key players.

Other totally controlled outlets, Murdoch’s Fox News and Wall Street Journal are, perhaps, the worst followed by DailyBeast.com and Newsweek, Jane Harmon’s AIPAC propaganda rags.

The newest entry is the Huffington Post, saturated with sex and “celebs,” used yesterday to attack Russian videos of Syrian rebels lobbing sarin shells.

A report of a nuclear attack, no matter how much science, as Dr. Chris Busby can attest, will ever hit the western press.

However, a Syrian rebel can film a gas attack, brag about doing it on video and post it on Youtube and it is virtually invisible.

Controlled news has driven the US into using unthinkable weapons, into staging horrific acts of terror and, if possible, being exceeded in every way by Israel.

Targeted individuals
There is mounting evidence that individuals known as “targeted persons” are subjected to attacks that include stalking, threats, staged incidents (accidents and murder/suicide among these) but also use of secret technologies.

The individuals are test subjects, possible security threats, whistleblowers or “Oswald” types. The US has an inventory of several thousand “targeted individuals” who, on command, as in the Charles Bronson film, “Telefon,” are ready to commit acts of terror.

Supporting these operations are “crisis actor” groups, coincidental “security drills (often Israeli companies but others are used too), and a slew of “alphabet soup” agencies, ready to plant evidence, silence real witnesses or commit the acts of terror themselves if the chosen targeted “patsies” fail in their mission.

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2013/09/21 ... ilitarism/
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Lalmohan »

TSJones wrote: Saudia Arabia and the Gulf States have nothing to fear from Russia.
true enough, not with the US Fleet parked in Bahrain and the USAF parked in Qatar and the US Army in Kuwait
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Singha »

perfectly true in their home nations. but as well all know, their elites make semi-annual pilgrimages to lebanon and europe to indulge in wine and women. and we all know how persistent , resourceful and natashaish the russians are when it comes to inflicting pain on their enemies in such relatively unguarded locales.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Lalmohan »

i hope those al-bedou princes don't like to eat in london sushi bars...
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Lilo »

Singha ji,
Forget their tourist activities abroad , these GCC types instead of staying homebound while warming Massa's bed as they did in the past are foraying into new geopolitical arenas and strutting it out in their silken looking Thobes, thinking much of them selves while at it.
Is it bravado or is it desperation I pooch ?
May be they are not too happy in bed with all the beauty of Arab Spring blooming outside their bedrooms ?
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Lalmohan »

not to mention shale-oil-gas-bonanzas all around the world
so... canada has bigger reserves than saudi?
TSJones
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by TSJones »

Lalmohan wrote:not to mention shale-oil-gas-bonanzas all around the world
so... canada has bigger reserves than saudi?
A bit off topic but while we're calculating the world's hydrocarbon reserves, please note that the Saudia Arabia reserves practically spring up out of the ground on its own pressure and it is a light "sweet" crude that almost rivals potable tap water in its taste and cracks into other distillates at the lightest touch. And it costs about $3.00 a bbl onlee to produce. Something to think about when comparing to Canada's oil sands or US shale. Back to your regularly scheduled channels.......
Lalmohan
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Lalmohan »

tsj - i know, but where there is a will, there will eventually be a way
it is all a matter of time...
TSJones
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by TSJones »

Lalmohan wrote:
TSJones wrote: Saudia Arabia and the Gulf States have nothing to fear from Russia.
true enough, not with the US Fleet parked in Bahrain and the USAF parked in Qatar and the US Army in Kuwait
Yes, kismet isn't it?
Lalmohan
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Lalmohan »

and that is exactly why them a-rabs hate you (can't live with you, can't live without you)
ramana
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by ramana »

Thread is getting derailed. Take abreak. TSJ stop taking potshots. Others don't respond.
Agnimitra
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Agnimitra »

Iran's foreign minister expected to meet Kerry in diplomatic breakthrough
Mohammad Javad Zarif due to meet US secretary of state at UN in highest-level meeting since Iran's 1979 revolution
Philip
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Philip »

False flag ops by the US.Study this and the the videoclip .The ops continue even today,says the report.

Sandy Hook, Black Ops, False Flags And Operation Gladio
Thursday, January 17, 2013
http://beforeitsnews.com/conspiracy-the ... 47900.html
ramana
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by ramana »

Philip, Dont post such videos. The OT thread is there.
habal
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by habal »

Guantanamo prisoners are being used by US as captive stock, who are kept imprisoned until they agree to wage a war on behalf of US interests anywhere in Islamic theatre.

http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/09/17/3 ... hting.html

Now you know what was the stubborn insistence behind not disbanding Guantanamo.
habal
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by habal »

prince bandar is half black, so he is under more pressure to prove his arabness ..
Opposition: Saudi king’s son promotes ‘racist policy’ against nation’s blacks

WASHINGTON — The Saudi opposition has been lobbying in the United States to oppose racism in the Gulf Arab kingdom.
The Institute for Gulf Affairs protested a Saudi government forum in the United States in mid-September.

The opposition institute said its target was Deputy Saudi Foreign Minister Abdul Aziz Bin Abdullah, son of the king and deemed an architect of Riyad’s policy against the estimated three million blacks.

“Abdul Aziz Bin Abdullah is deputy foreign minister and he implements this racist policy against blacks,” the institute said.
On Sept. 16, the Saudi royal family organized an economic forum in Los Angeles headed by Abdul Aziz. The institute lobbied Washington to press Riyad to end the policy of discriminating against Saudi blacks, deemed slaves.

“The Saudi monarchy bans blacks from many jobs including diplomats,
judges, security officers, ministers, mayors, senior clerics, and heads of
government departments,” the institute said on Sept. 16. “The Saudi Foreign
Ministry bans blacks from all diplomatic positions. That’s why none of you
have met a Saudi black diplomat before.”

The institute said the Saudi royal family has blocked the appointment of
blacks in government and civil service. The statement cited the absence of
blacks in media, education and government.

“The monarchy bans black women from appearing on television or working
as on camera reporters, and from many low-level jobs such including school
principal,” the institute said. “There is not one single black school
principal in Saudi Arabia.”

The institute has lobbied both Congress and the administration to
protest Saudi racism. The lobbying urged Commerce Secretary Penny Pritzker
to use the Los Angeles forum to speak out against racism.
The statement also cited Suleiman Al Huraisi, a 24-year-old black man
beaten to death by the Saudi religious police. The police, who hurled racial
epithets as they beat him, accused Al Huraisi of possessing alcohol in his
Riyad home.

“None of his killers were ever brought to justice,” the institute said.
http://www.worldtribune.com/2013/09/22/ ... ns-blacks/
Philip
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Philip »

A growing flashpoint in the most sensitive city on the map,Jerusalem,is Temple Mount,the site of the destroyed last temple of the Jews,site of King Solomon's famous temple,the holiest spot for those of the Jewish faith.The rebuilding of the destroyed temple is a birthright and sacred task of every Jew and after the capture of the city in the '67 war,ultra-orthodox Jews have been for long planning to rebuild the temple,the only problem is that the Al Aqsa Mosque and Dome of the Rock stand on the very site of the first two Jewish temples.The entire artefacts required for the temple have reportedly already been made and some sources even say that the location of the Ark of the Covenant which disappeared centuries ago,is known to the temple restorers who will place it in the temple once it is rebuilt.That means that somehow,either by the hand of God-a natural disaster,whatever,or by the hand of man,the existing structures must be 'removed".One can imagine the chaos if that happens.But stranger things have happened in history and to many observers,it is only a matter of time before the temple is rebuilt in whatever fashion.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/22/world ... UID__&_r=0

Jews Challenge Rules to Claim Heart of Jerusalem
By JODI RUDOREN
Published: September 21, 2013

For decades the Israelis drawn to the site were mainly a fringe of hard-core zealots, but now more mainstream Jews are lining up to enter, as a widening group of Israeli politicians and rabbis challenge the longstanding rules constraining Jewish access and conduct. Brides go on their wedding days, synagogue and religious-school groups make regular outings, and many surreptitiously skirt the ban on non-Muslim prayer, like a Russian immigrant who daily recites the morning liturgy in his mind, as he did decades ago in the Soviet Union.

Palestinian leaders say the new activity has created the worst tension in memory around the landmark Al Aksa Mosque and Dome of the Rock, and have called on Muslims to defend the site from “incursions.” A spate of stone-throwing clashes erupted this month: on Wednesday, three Muslims were arrested and an Israeli police officer wounded in the face. And on Friday thousands of Arab citizens of Israel rallied in the north, warning that Al Aksa is in danger.

“We reject these religious visits,” Sheik Ekrima Sa’eed Sabri, who oversees Muslim affairs in Jerusalem, said in an interview. “Our duty is to warn,” he added. “If they want to make peace in this region, they should stay away from Al Aksa.”

The 37-acre site is perhaps the most religiously contested place on earth. Jews revere it as the home of the First and Second Temples 2,000 years ago. For Muslims, who call the site the Noble Sanctuary, it is the world’s third holiest spot, from which Muhammad is believed to have ascended to heaven. More than 300,000 foreign tourists also flock there annually, many of them Christians drawn to the ruins of the temple Jesus attended.

Politically, the competing claims to the area are the nut around which the Israeli-Palestinian conflict revolves, the symbolic heart of each side’s religious and historical attachment to Jerusalem that has made its governance one of the thorniest issues in peace negotiations.

Israel captured the site along with the rest of East Jerusalem and the West Bank in 1967, with a general declaring dramatically, “The Temple Mount is in our hands!” But the government immediately returned control to the Muslim authorities, and ever since, a de facto accommodation has prevailed in which Muslims worship at Al Aksa above and Jews at the Western Wall below, a remnant of the retaining wall around the ancient Second Temple.

There have been flare-ups before. In 2000, a visit by Ariel Sharon, then Israel’s opposition leader, accompanied by 1,000 police officers, prompted a violent outbreak and, many argue, set off the second intifada.

Over the last few years, a cause long taken up by only a fringe group of far right-wingers has increasingly been embraced by the modern Orthodox — known here as religious Zionists — who have also gained political power. At three recent Parliament hearings, religious lawmakers and cabinet ministers questioned the status quo, in which non-Muslims can enter the site only for a few hours five days a week, and those identified by the police as Jews are separated, escorted by police officers and admonished not to dance, sing, bow down or even move their lips in prayer.

“The Temple Mount is in our hands — but is it really?” asked Michael Freund, a Jerusalem Post columnist who visited the site as a child in 1977 and returned for the first time last year, with 50 members of his synagogue. “It particularly offends me that the Israeli government puts into place restrictions which prevent Jews from fulfilling their basic right to freedom of worship.”

Jack Stroh, a cardiologist from East Brunswick, N.J., who visited on Wednesday, has been bringing friends for five years before the holidays of Sukkot and Passover — two of three pilgrimage festivals when ancient Jews were required to pray at the temples.

“My cousin said that if Jews don’t go up to the mountain there is an increased chance that the government will say Jews are not interested and will give it away,” he said as his group waited to enter. “I’m taking them up. Someone took me up. They’ll take other people up; it’s a growing phenomenon.”

Israeli security and border patrol officers were on alert on Wednesday at the entrance to the Temple Mount, or Noble Sanctuary,
Rina Castelnuovo for The New York Times

Amid the religious pilgrims on Wednesday was Michal Berdugo, 25, a secular Israeli who said it had been her “dream for three years” to visit. “It’s part of who we are,” she said.

The recent shift has many roots. For years, most authorities on Jewish law said Jews should not enter the complex for fear of treading on the ancient temple’s holiest spots, but recent archaeological work has led some liberal and even moderate Orthodox rabbis to lift those bans. At the same time, activists have stepped up their campaign for access and prayer at the Temple Mount, part of a broader push to cement Jewish control of all of Jerusalem.

Experts who have observed the phenomenon also see it as a reaction to Israel’s evacuation of Jews from the Gaza Strip in 2005, a redirection of Messianic energy once devoted to West Bank settlements that many fear could soon succumb to the same fate to make way for a Palestinian state.

“The war for the land of Israel is not just political, but essentially spiritual,” said Yossi Klein Halevi, author of a new book that traces the lives of paratroopers who seized the Mount in 1967. “Given that the Temple Mount is the focal point of holiness in the Holy Land, the thinking is that we need to go to the source in order to prevent the further partition of the land.”

Israel Police statistics show visits by people identified as Jews rose to 8,247 in 2011 from 5,792 in 2010, then dipped slightly last year. The figure is on track to top 2011’s total this year, with 5,609 Israelis coming through July. Crowds — and clashes — are expected Sunday and Monday for Sukkot.

While the numbers remain tiny compared with the 10 million annual visitors to the Western Wall below, Palestinian officials say what used to be a trickle of individuals has given way to groups of 40, 60, 90. They were particularly alarmed that the Israeli police commissioner told a newspaper this month that “every Jew who wishes to pray at the Temple Mount can pray on the Temple Mount,” though his subordinates said afterward that did not change the police policy on the ground preventing non-Muslim prayer. A recent visit by the right-wing housing minister also stirred outrage.

“Before, it was some settlers from here, some extremists from there; now we start to hear it from the real officials,” said Adnan Husseini, the Palestinian governor of Jerusalem. “When they get inside with this big number, it’s sure that they will make some kind of religious activities and there will be more friction between them and the people inside the mosque.”

The Palestinians have complained to the United Nations, the Arab League and Secretary of State John Kerry, most recently after Wednesday’s clash, when the chief Palestinian negotiator wrote to Mr. Kerry saying the issue “could inflame the situation and undermine the current opportunity to move toward peace.”

Israel’s chief rabbinate still maintains the Mount is off limits to Jews — a sign saying so is posted at the gate. But a senior Israeli official, speaking on the condition of anonymity, said the government supports “in principle” Jews’ rights to pray there, adding, “we’ve got to do it in a measured way, a sensitive way.”

As visiting the Mount has become more mainstream — one Israeli newspaper has since December 2011 devoted a full page weekly to news and columns about the site — the original hard core has been emboldened. A group formed last year calls for building a small synagogue on the plaza. Yehuda Etzion, who was arrested in 1984 for plotting to blow up the Dome of the Rock, and a team of architects are designing a “future Jerusalem” plan with a new temple at its heart. An activist group’s Web site devoted to the Mount unveiled a virtual tour this summer with a Third Temple where the Dome stands.

“We’re talking about something much deeper than visiting the place, we’re talking about a movement that wants to change the status quo from its roots,” said Yedidia Z. Stern, a vice president of the Israel Democracy Institute, an Orthodox Jew with liberal leanings who has watched the change with concern. “You’re dealing with the ultimate TNT in our national existence here.”

For Max Freidzon, the Russian immigrant, visiting the site has become a daily ritual: he stands still several times on his stroll around the Mount, and goes through the morning prayers — including a plea to rebuild the temple — without moving his lips.

“The situation is the same like it was in the Soviet Union,” said Mr. Freidzon, 46, citing the police escorts, the identification checks, and the ban on religious texts and on a minyan, the 10-person quorum required for public communal prayer. “Step by step, the situation will change. It’s necessary to pray here, and to make here minyan, and to build here temple.”
harbans
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by harbans »

OK all at par for the Islamist 'Civilization'..no problems with US visa's too for these folks.

Destroy All Churches: Kuwait MPs ban Church constructions

Amazing the blinkers people have put on to treat these Islamists with kid gloves..and appeasement. Our suffering is due to these blinkers.
vishvak
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by vishvak »

OT
The secularists are not to be judged by standards set for heathens pagaans only.

In fact all who talk of secularism within India stop talking of secularism outside India.
member_27444
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by member_27444 »

Israel is extremely scared of Peace
Obama talking to Iran is very upsetting to Bibi
Now Israel will create another flash point jus you wait and see
Slowly looks like POTUS control by Israel is slipping out,

Some thing big is going to happen very soon.
KSA will be used as the front end
Wish ShyamD was hereto inform us about the real happenings behind the scene
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