Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Aug 21, 2013

Baikul · Post by **Baikul** » 25 Sep 2013 18:06

^^ Yes, the first Niazi was blowing out of his a$$, while the second one had his a$$ blown up.

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 25 Sep 2013 18:12

Baikul wrote:^^ Yes, the first Niazi was blowing out of his a$$, while the second one had his a$$ blown up.

Good one. Both will be remembered for "moving away" or retreating from the front lines.

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 25 Sep 2013 18:21

This piece about an island emerging off the coast of Balochistan (surely, a gift from allah to the most pious). I am waiting for an enterprising paki momeen to row his dinghy to the island, plant his pure green parcham on it and claim "Land!! I claim thee in the name of allah, the all knowing and merciful."

Then watch the fun after the land mass bubble deflates and sinks or blows up. Kaboom!

From "Daan":

According to scientists, the Makran coastal belt is reported to have extensive reserves of frozen methane that exist in the form of gas hydrates (crystalline water-based solids physically resembling ice, formed under conditions of relatively high pressures and low temperatures) hundreds of metres below the sea floor. And whenever this highly pressurised gas finds a weak space to release some of its energy, a dome-like structure (island) is created within the waters or it emerges on the sea surface.

the analysis of previously tested gas samples taken from the water column of the Malan island showed that it contained methane, ethane, propane and butane

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 25 Sep 2013 18:50

SSridhar, Very insightful critique of the TOI outpouring.. The article smacks of mirroring. They pretend TSP is in a corner and that India should give away Kashmir. Its UPA that is on the ropes without a Parlimentary majority and support by threatening the 'allies' with CBI sword.
A WKK cabal has taken hold of India and is rushing to come to some Munich agreement while they have legitimacy of power. Unfortunately that is not true legitimacy from the people.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 25 Sep 2013 19:24

So Turkey is slowly becoming a four father to orphan TSP?

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 25 Sep 2013 19:52

The dimwit Khan suggests a political office for TTP - DAWN
Not a word of condemnation on the Church attack or not a word of sympathy for the Christians.

Pakistan Tehrik-i-Insaaf (PTI) chairman Imran Khan on Wednesday urged the government to declare a ceasefire if it was serious about holding peace talks with militants in Pakistan.

The PTI chief also called on the government to allow militants to open an office in Pakistan similar to the Afghan Taliban office in Qatar to facilitate the dialogue process, DawnNews reported.

Speaking to media representatives after visiting injured persons of the Peshawar church bombing at the Lady Reading Hospital, Khan said that on one hand, there were talks of holding negotiations whereas on the other, war was still ongoing. How would it be possible to hold peace talks, he questioned.

The PTI chairman moreover said that after the fourth All Parties Conference (APC), it was decided to hold peace talks; however no solutions had come about.

Khan stressed that the government should take negotiations seriously, adding that it should declare a ceasefire.

Furthermore, he also said that the government should allow militants to establish a political office in Pakistan to hold peace talks in the absence of which negotiations would not be possible and the decade-long war against terrorism would continue.

While discussing the Peshawar church bombing which killed 81 people, Khan alleged that the tragedy had been politicised. He said 170 blasts had taken place in Khyber Pakhtunkhwa in the past nine years under previous governments, but PTI had not politicised those tragedies.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 25 Sep 2013 20:01

http://img.niticentral.com/2013/09/paki ... stians.jpg

islam khatre mein hain cartoon

Lilo · Post by **Lilo** » 25 Sep 2013 20:09

^^

-------------------------------

SSridhar wrote:The dimwit Khan suggests a political office for TTP - DAWN
Not a word of condemnation on the Church attack or not a word of sympathy for the Christians.

Next he will say TTP and PTI should form a political alliance .
Next he will disband PTI and merge its cadre into TTP.
Finally he will find himself ritually halaled and lifeless lying in an open ditch like Kaleed Khajwa or Colonel Imam.

Peregrine · Post by **Peregrine** » 25 Sep 2013 20:28

Rabbit : Indian Practitioners of the Violent Religions

Rat : Mama Pizza's Pet.

Wolf : Badmash - Zia ul Haq’s Protégé.

Cheers

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 25 Sep 2013 21:09

btw - looks like the mud volcano island is going to be washed away in a month of two...
previous one in the region was in 2001
djinns are failing the pure...

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 25 Sep 2013 23:12

Gas ? Such islands are formed when the volcanic activity pushes up mud from the ocean floor. What made that Paki paper put methane gas there ?
Pakis should be worried about their clown jewel Gwadal polt getting blocked or damaged by the volcanic activity rather than having wet dreams of gas deposits which may or may not be there.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 25 Sep 2013 23:40

Gas is there in Pindi.

Peregrine · Post by **Peregrine** » 26 Sep 2013 00:18

Rajdeep wrote:Splitting India
A bit schizophrenic article.

Rajdeep Ji :

From the Article :

Ishtiaq Ahmed says in the Article “The only difference being that in India the Muslim minority could stay put after some three per cent of the Muslims from Muslim-minority areas migrated to Pakistan but Hindus and Sikhs had to leave almost to the last man in Punjab and the settled areas of Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa

At the time of Partition the Muslim population content of divided India’s Population was about 8% to 10%. Slim Population which migrated to Pakistan would be about One Million.

As such the Muslim Population of India was about 33 Million and Three Per Cent of the Indian Muslim Population would be about One Million.

This put paid to the Pakistani Leaders stating that Ten Million Indian Muslims Migrated to Pakistan!

Mr. Ishtiaq Ahmed can be reached at : [email protected]

Cheers

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 26 Sep 2013 02:03

WOh THII Aik SHAM,MALSI Kei Naam
Justifying the killing of Christians

Someone called me, recently, insisting that now there will be action in North Waziristan against the Taliban. His point was that the killing of over 80 Christians, in Peshawar, would shake us into action. I quickly reminded him of what a rather intelligent nephew of mine told me recently about not taking such outpour of sympathy too seriously because it doesn’t eventually amount to anything. We sympathised with the Hazaras but didn’t ensure any concrete outcomes for their protection. We cry for the Baloch in conference rooms and think that the job is done. The young man mentioned above reminded me that we are the kind of people who will cry over dead Hazaras, Balochs, Christians, Ahmadis and others, not for the sake of humanity but out of fear that we might be next. Sadly, even this episode of brutality will not go beyond producing some “Coke Studio” version of Faiz or Jalib. The debate is likely to degenerate into a nonsensical debate labelled as a liberal versus conservative verbal contest.The jihadi mafia is made up of such lucky folks because they understand that a divided population, which does not even have clarity on who to hold responsible for these attacks, will not have the will to retaliate. There are many, like Imran Khan, who think that the Taliban are not responsible for the attack in Peshawar. Indeed, the Hakimullah Mehsud group very intelligently distanced itself from the attack. So, now we will hold everyone responsible; from CIA, Raw and Mossad to Charlie’s aunt and not look inside.Why forget that we ourselves are responsible for the attack on these poor Christians? The bias against this community is inbuilt into our psyche. There are many a people who wouldn’t share the same plate or glass with Christians. The whole drama of Aasia Bibi originates from her attempt to drink water from the same well as Muslims. The majority of Pakistan’s Christians belong to the lowest socio-economic class and they continue to remain there and treated the same way as they were before their forefathers converted to Christianity to escape maltreatment. Recently, one of Punjab chief minister’s favourite police officers taunted the Christian community and told them that the photographs of what they had done should be sent to “all their embassies”. This was after a fight between the police and some Christian boys, in which both parties had beaten each other. The police were then sent in full force to pick the culprits up at the slums and they would break open doors of their houses.
. Glance through the magnum opus of the JeM leader explaining jihad, Fathul Jawwad and you will see how a ‘jihadi’ or Taliban will be inspired to kill a Christian. The entire interpretation puts the Jews and Christians on the same level as the hypocrites and the non-believers. The 2000-page book carefully builds a thesis which extols the importance of jihad and martyrdom. But this is one aspect. The other is constructing a thesis against non-believers, Jews and Christians. It very carefully explains and interprets that religious reference to Jews includes Christians as well. On several occasions in the book it is also pointed out that de-populating a mosque is one of the greatest sins and that must be rewarded with death.The book constructs a formidable thesis against the people of the other two Semitic religions who were traditionally always considered as part of the same family. Reportedly, Masood Azhar’s work reflects a similar thesis by a Salafi scholar in a Saudi university in Riyadh.Azhar’s Fathul Jawwad is one of the fundamental readings for those being converted to the idea of jihad. There may be different Deobandi groups; even the Taliban are Deobandi, but they share the literature especially since there are more fighters but less ideologues who can create the ideology considered necessary to rally support from around them. Even if we were to imagine that the murder of over 80 innocent Christians, including women and children, may be the work of some foreign agency, how can we rule out the critical role that this kind of literature would have played in convincing the person who actually blew him/herself up? Perhaps, the killer might also have interpreted religion to say that it is fair and legal to kill women who take part in the fight including instigating against Muslim. Children are just collateral damage. Surely, the killers and many more see these women and children only from that lens. And still we call these jihadis the friendly Taliban.

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 26 Sep 2013 07:05

Another two islands emerge off coast

Paki clergy in a tizzy! Allah ki gift. More land for land-deprived pakis.

Following the emergence of an island on Tuesday off the coast of Gwadar, two others have emerged along the Balochistan coast, according to sources

a team of the National Institute of Oceanography (NIO) visited on Wednesday the island which emerged off the Gwadar coast and found methane gas being emitted from various spots

According to AFP, enterprising boat owners were doing a brisk trade ferrying curious sightseers to the island — dubbed ‘Earthquake Mountain’ by local people

RCase · Post by **RCase** » 26 Sep 2013 07:38

^^^
In recognition of the Chinese Dominion of Gwadar, the three new islands should be named:

Al New Bejingistan
Al New Shanghaistan
Al New Chongqingistan

rajanb · Post by **rajanb** » 26 Sep 2013 10:40

From Yawn dotty com
(Not worth reading)

Freefalling Pakistani rupee hits 109/ dollar in open market

Nest stop:

Freefalling Pakistan

Rajdeep · Post by **Rajdeep** » 26 Sep 2013 11:28

rajanb wrote:From Yawn dotty com
(Not worth reading)

Freefalling Pakistani rupee hits 109/ dollar in open market

Nest stop:

Freefalling Pakistan

Saar its been free falling for quite some time now and the rate is so steady that it gives a false notion of being stationary

Nandu · Post by **Nandu** » 26 Sep 2013 13:34

Jhujar wrote:WOh THII Aik SHAM,MALSI Kei Naam
Justifying the killing of Christians

Original before ET edited out phrases such as AoA and references to verse and chapter in the Quran.
http://ayeshasiddiqa.blogspot.fi/2013/0 ... uldnt.html

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 26 Sep 2013 14:31

12 more martyrs including a Lt.Col.,as the Pakis ramp up their terror attacks in J&K deliberately timed to put pressure upon spineless Singh,who has outrageously said that talks with the "Sherrif" at the UN will go on! Does he have dual nationality one wonders?

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 085996.cms?

J&K terror attack: Army officer among 12 killed
TNN | Sep 26, 2013,

JAMMU/WASHINGTON: Twelve people, including an Army officer, were killed on Thursday when militants mounted an audacious attack on a police station in Jammu region and commandeered a truck which they drove into an Army camp where soldiers took them on.

The brazen attack took place ahead of September 29 meeting between Prime Minister Manmohan Singh and Pakistan Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif in New York on the sidelines of the UN general assembly meet.

Three militants reached the Hira Nagar police station in Kathua district in an autorickshaw, police sources said.

They then attacked the police station, which is barely 7km from the international border.

"Militants used grenades and automatic weapons to attack the Hira Nagar police station today (Thursday) morning...," said a source.

The rebels lobbed grenades and fired automatic weapons, killing a shopkeeper.

Four policemen were also killed.

At least four people suffered critical splinter and bullet injuries.

Once the attack at the police station got over, the guerrillas shot dead a truck driver and stole his truck that was parked at the police station complex and escaped.

They took to the Pathankot-Jammu highway and the gunmen opened fire in Samba town — only to run into Indian troops. The highway has now been closed.

"We intercepted the truck which the militants were driving in Samba area," a military spokesperson said.

Army sources said the militants then entered an Army unit of Samba brigade, about 35km from Jammu, and opened fire. Exchange of fire between the militants and the security forces is underway.

An Army officer and two soldiers were killed while three soldiers were wounded.

J&K chief minister Omar Abdullah confirmed that so far 12 people have been killed in these attacks.

Omar Abdullah said that these terror attacks have been carried out to derail the peace process between India and Pakistan. "It would be grave injustice to those who have been killed if we postpone India-Pakistan talks," Abdullah added.

"There has been an attack on a police station and an Army camp...we are collecting information," Union home minister Sushilkumar Shinde told reporters in New Delhi.

Army sources say that they have taken the help of helicopters, which were used to bring Army commandos to the site of the firing.

The Samba brigade belongs to the 9 Corps, which is headquartered in Himachal Pradesh. It falls under Army's Western Command.

Terror attacks won't derail dialogue: PM Man Mohan Singh

"Such attacks will not deter us or succeed in derailing our efforts to find a resolution to problems through dialogue," said Prime Minister Manmohan Singh following a terror attack in Jammu that left 12 dead.

Manmohan Singh took to Twitter following the terror attack on Thursday on a police station and an army camp in Jammu region.

He tweeted: "We are firmly resolved to combat and defeat the terrorist menace that continues to receive encouragement from across the border."

"Such attacks will not deter us or succeed in derailing our efforts to find a resolution to all problems through a process of dialogue," said another tweet.

Manmohan Singh said that no words were "strong enough to condemn the heinous terrorist attack" on Hiranagar police station and the army camp at Samba in Jammu and Kashmir.

He described the strike as "one more in a series of provocations and barbaric actions by the enemies of peace".

Manmohan Singh is likely to meet Pakistani Premier Nawaz Sharif on the sidelines of the UN General Assembly on September 29.

PM "categorical" that talks will go on,and that the attacks will not derail his meeting with the Paki terrorist PM!
Mir Jafar and Jaichand will be applauding loudly from the next world...and O'Bugger.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 26 Sep 2013 15:43

The PM's statement, which indeed reflects a long-time American demand, is most shameful. We do not want to retaliate, we do not want to stop talking, we do not cease our generosity, we do not learn and we believe that we will be able to turn Pakistan around into a normal nation-state. No wonder that this contemptible, disgraceful and obscene behaviour of ours has already earned us the sobriquet, 'soft, timid and dhimmi state'.

This is a new low even for our Prime Minister who is determined to plumb lower and lower every passing day. He has no vision for this country and he has completely lost the plot. It is very dangerous for the nation.

I am ashamed to call myself a citizen of this country.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 26 Sep 2013 16:42

From Night Watch for the night of Sept. 25

Pakistan: Pakistani press reported today, "Authoritative sources have told the government clearly there is no space left for holding talks with the militants after the attacks carried out by militants against senior army officials and against religious minorities. " "This is because instead of giving a positive response to the talks offer, the militants have considered it as their success and as Pakistan's weakness. The prime minister and the federal interior minister have been told to once again contact those politicians, who were present in the All Parties Conference, in order to hold consultations with them on this new situation. The offer of talks should be officially withdrawn and permission should be given for carrying out operation against the terrorists."

Comment: A thoughtful BBC appreciation argued that the government of Nawaz Sharif is failing already because of unrelieved economic problems, corruption, law and order issues and the rejection of talks by the Pakistani Taliban. That sweeping judgment might be premature, but as to negotiating peace with the Pakistani Taliban, it is on the mark. The Pakistani Taliban response to government overtures has been a surge in attacks, bombings and murders. They include the bomb attack that killed a Pakistani major general Niazi in Dir district on 15 September and the Christian church bombing in Peshawar on 22 September. The Nawaz Sharif government has been slow to recognize and accept this policy failure and has sought an excuse to justify a change in policy. The brief report above is crafted to represent a request from field authorities at the province level and below to which the federal government can consent. With respect to the Pakistani Taliban, Nawaz Sharif campaigned to end the terrorism by trying negotiations. He tried and the response was more energetic attacks. The item above accurately reflects the view that offers of talks signify weakness and invite greater aggression. {This applies equally to Man Mohan Singh's uninterrupted and uninterruptible talks with the terrorist state of Pakistan} That has been the cycle in Pakistan for many years. A war weary Pakistani population requires occasional reminders that the Pakistani Taliban want no part of peace talks because they interpret them as a sign they are winning the struggle to install an emirate in Islamabad. Last week Chief of Army Staff General Kayani said, "it is understandable to give peace a chance through a political process, but no one should have any misgivings that we would let terrorists coerce us into accepting their terms." The Pakistan Army will avenge the death of General Niazi with or without Sharif's permission. {I doubt such a positive perception}

Dilbu · Post by **Dilbu** » 26 Sep 2013 18:47

What is the point in discussing peace with a TSP PM who is powerless to stop an attack aimed at this very meeting? MMS is only risking the lives of more innocent people by going for these 'talks'. People are getting killed every time he tries to do this for piss prize.

rajanb · Post by **rajanb** » 26 Sep 2013 18:52

SSridhar wrote: SNIP
I am ashamed to call myself a citizen of this country.

SSji. Here I would feel you are over reacting.

I am proud to be a son of Bharat. Warts and all. Because my country is an entity, that cannot be represented by people who denigrate it, rob it of its sheen, deny it its rightful place, or loot it, or tarnish it.

John F Kennedy's words ring in my mind. "Ask not what your country can do for you, but ask what you can do for your country."

The sad part is that as I used to tell all my Gora managements: "India is a free country, much freer than any other on this planet."

Indeed, a double edged statement.

Sorry if OT

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 26 Sep 2013 19:26

rajanb, nobody can make any statement if statements are torn out of context. One can find fault with anything.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 26 Sep 2013 19:32

http://www.fakingnews.firstpost.com/201 ... az-sharif/

New York, USA. After failing to understand what exactly do India and Pakistan talk, Faking News decided to hack into the meeting between the Indian and Pakistani Prime Ministers on the sidelines of UN meet here.

We found that both the Prime Ministers met with much warmth. The Pakistani Prime Minister tried to hug his Indian counterpart, but it seems that the Indian PM stepped back realizing that it led to war last time a Pak PM hugged his Indian counterpart.

It was all words from there on:
Nawaz Sharif (NS): Hello Dr. Singh! Nice to see you here in the USA. Let’s talk.
Manmohan Singh (MMS): Theek hai.
NS: First of all I’m really sorry about the terror attack in Jammu & Kashmir. I just heard about it while talking to the ISI chief. This is a conspiracy to stop our talks.
MMS: I know. But you should condemn the terror attack. It’s easy. I have tweeted condemning it. You should retweet it. You can click the ‘retweet’ button or add +1 to it while manually retweeting.
NS: Oh wow! But I am not on Twitter.
MMS: Why?
NS: Social media keeps on getting banned in Pakistan. So no point being there.
MMS: Oh wow! We also get suggestions to ban social media. So there were no riots, rumors, terrorist attacks, etc. when social media was banned?
NS: mazaaak mat karo yaar! As if you don’t know that terror strikes are almost routine in Pakistan.
MMS: Why don’t you stop them?
NS: I have no control over these guys.
MMS: Oh wow! So I am not the only Prime Minister who enjoys no control!
NS: mazaak mat karo yaar!
MMS: arey nahi, mazaak nahi kar raha. We seem to be in similar situations.
NS: Yes dude. Heard you also faced a coup back home. The last Army Chief General VK Singh tried to stage a coup like that Mushy did to me?
MMS: I don’t know about these things.
NS: Huh? What kind of Prime Minister are you?
MMS: Eh? As if you know everything. Tell me where is Dawood Ibrahim?
NS: I am not custodian of Dawood Ibrahim.
MMS: What the hell! Don’t troll me please.
NS: Theek hai.
MMS: haha.. you also said theek hai! What kind of Prime Minister are you?
NS: Huh?
MMS: Never mind. So what exactly do we talk here? You are not in control, I’m not in control. Our economies are in doldrums, we are not playing cricket, and war is not an option.
NS: Narendra Modi?
MMS: Huh?
NS: Let’s jointly condemn Narendra Modi, and everything will be forgotten.
MMS: I will have to ask madam if that’s a good idea.
NS: mazaak kar raha tha yaar!
MMS: Whattay troll! You should be on Twitter.
NS: Thanks. So what next?
MMS: I can send you a Twitter registration link.
NS: arey, not that. What else to talk?
MMS: Not much. But talks should continue.
NS: Absolutely, we will not allow terror strikes to derail this process.
The Prime Ministers then shook hands and posed for media persons. They will soon release a joint statement condemning the attacks and welcoming further talks.
Manmohan Singh and Nawaz Sharif
Experts believe that Indian Prime Minister performed better because he showed one more finger

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 26 Sep 2013 19:32

My take is as follows. The ferocious TSP attack on our troops (with civilians as collateral damage), MMS's "unconditional and uninterrutible dialogue", and of course standard US reaction are all according to script. And as usual, TSP has planned and executed its strategy brilliantly while India comes out cowardly, weak, humiliated, and beaten. So here is what is going on. Finally, no damage done to US interests.

1. MMS and Sheriff are due to meet in NYC.

2. Now, if the meeting is routine, exchange of pleasantries, Sheriff saying a few words on curbing terror, India saying will talk piss on all issues, nothing really comes out of the meeting. TSP gains nothing. India gains by status quo. For US, both India and TSP are its good munnas talking instead of fighting. No damage done to US interests.

3. Thus, TSP launched this ferocious attack. And note, they attacked Indian police and Indian army and caused massive casualties. Even after usual umpteen terror attacks, TSP never agreess its terror, but this one, they will legitimately and brazenly say, "dispute over Kashmir", and freedom fighters are fighting occupation. Western media will largely say the same thing.

4. So now back to talks. Now TSP will say, they are not against talks, but talks must include Kashmir to prevent these kinds of attacks which is due to Indian "occupation" and "dispuate over Kashmir". On this, US will come down four square on TSP's side using some diplomatic mumbo jumbo lingo. Even western reporting will reflect this TSP line. This is the outcome TSPA/ISI wanted as AfPak draws to a close: intense focus on Kashmir, and they got it.

5. Meanwhile Arnab and others on Indian media will show their impotent rage with TSP "guests" who will rub it in all the more saying until you "resolve" Kashmir, this will go on. ON TSP side, the gloating hacanrdly be contained. Those dead pigLets will have inspired another 1000 more.

5. The only way to have prevented this would have been for India to have foiled this plan which I am sure was in the offing knowing TSP modus operendi. I know its easier said than done, and our guys are valiantly fighting against a determines suicidal enemy, but hope Indian army learns from this one and prevents he next one. Its bound to happen.

6. I am not a big fan of MMS as you all know. He is a disgrace, and I don't want to say anything else to respect forum guidelines. But at the same time, I think its a bit disingenuous for BJP and Modi to pile on him at this stage after such a ferocious attack, because this was an Indian army lapse, what could MMS have done? And in any case, what would BJP have done to prevent this attack?

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 26 Sep 2013 19:41

SSridhar,

I agree. The least MMS could have done was to suspend the talks with Sheriff. Because as I point uut above, TSP wanted Kashmir focus back, and they have achieved that with MMS agreeing to the talk.

I am not a script writer, but MMS could have issued a statement not only calling of talks, but also reminding US of what it faced from TSP in AfPak, and why cessation of terror is an essential pre-condition for any kind of talks.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 26 Sep 2013 19:42

CRamS wrote: 6. I am not a big fan of MMS as you all know. He is a disgrace, and I don't want to say anything else to respect forum guidelines. But at the same time, I think its a bit disingenuous for BJP and Modi to pile on him at this stage after such a ferocious attack, because this was an Indian army lapse, what could MMS have done? And in any case, what would BJP have done to prevent this attack?

GoI could have planned all its Brahmos, Pinaka, Arjun, LCH etc tests by using targets in PoK. After all Cashmere is an unresolved issue and PoK is still a contested area. So it is legitimate for India to test its missiles within its territory. This strategy, if done past 10 years, would have prevented THIS attack definitely.

And, YES we need to solve Cashmere to put a stop to these things. Otherwise "these" things will continue.

No one can blame Indian Army, for they should absolutely be in civilian control. Last time I checked they needed PMO approval even for using bathrooms.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 26 Sep 2013 19:44

CRS, at this point of time, Pakistan has all the aces up its sleeve and India has none. It was foolish to have agreed to the talks in the first place; but, having made the peace dialogue 'uninterrupted and uninterruptible' (all those who use this term are supporters of the American agenda), MMS had no option. Even otherwise, he was waiting for an opportunity to engage with Pakistan anyway. The talks can only go one way in the present circumstances, the Pakistani way. The fear is what more would a person, who was willing to concede to Pakistani demands even after the 26/11 events when the moral highground was in our favour, concede now when the initiative has gone to TSP ? Also, MMS himself is on very shaky grounds, beleagured as he is by internal and external pressures. How much would MMS cave in is the interesting but sad part to watch in the days ahead.

Added later: Salman Kurshid keeps saying that TSP would be held accountable for 26/11, which makes us all puke. is that a kind of statement to make after 4 years and with a farcical court case going on in TSP ? It is therefore easily understandable that this statement is for public consumption and something more substantial is being discussed while wool is being pulled over our eyes ?

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 26 Sep 2013 20:00

RamaY,

I agree with everything you said. The rot has been systematic ever since this "South Asian" CEO, MMS has taken office and implementing diktats from DC/London.

But that said, if I am the Indian army chief, I have to fight with the resources at my command, not the resource I wish I had. These kinds of suicide attack have taken place many times before. This could have been prevented to deny TSP the huge PR victory it got out of this.

But as I said, I know its easier said than done. Me sitting miles away and pontificating to the guys in the firing line is easy to do.

In a non castigating tone, but in a spirit of inquiry, Indian media should invite Indian army spokesman, and find out what happened to make sure the top echelons of the army are under pressure to prevent these kinds of attacks in future. TSP thrives on these small victories. No point wasting time calling TSP "guests" and showing off our impotent rage against them.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 26 Sep 2013 20:10

India should move forward on Composite Dialogue for trade ties with Pak: GoP - Sujay Mehdudia, The Hindu

Asserting that peace with India was the sentiment of national Parliament, Pakistan said India needs to move forward on the composite dialogue and address contentious topics such as Sir Creek dialogue, Siachen dispute and Kashmir issue to ensure economic and trade partnership between the two nations, which is the desire of the people on both sides, moves on fast track. {Which means that MFN is now tied to these issues. All these are manifestations of Pakistan perceiving an upper hand in its dealing with India now.}

Talking to a group of journalists from India on Thursday during the 8th edition of Pakistan Trade Expo here, Minister of State for Commerce and Privatisation, Engineer Khurram Dastagir Khan said the future of Afghanistan was also very close to the heart of people of Pakistan and the Nawaz Sharif Government and India needs to engage more with Pakistan on the issue in view of the U.S.-led allied forces leaving the country from next year onwards. “If India takes a single step on addressing the outstanding issues and starts the political dialogue with full vigour, we will take five steps to give a big boost to trade. Both the political dialogue and trade relations have to move in a parallel manner. We know that the economic relationship has hit a roadblock due to impact of lack of progress on other issues. Peace with India has been the sentiment of new Parliament of Pakistan and the Nawaz Sharif Government… and we should not allow this golden opportunity slip away,” Mr. Khan said.

He said talking peace with India was a very sensitive issue in Pakistan and the composite dialogue has to show a positive progress for trade to grow which will throw up immense opportunities for businesses from both sides. “India is almost in an election mode. We expect positive outcome from Mr. Nawaz Sharif and Dr. Manmohan Singh’s meeting in New York on September 29. But a firm dialogue can only be expected after the installation of a new government in India after the 2014 elections,” he added.

Stating that trade could act as a cushion at times when political developments and differences between the two countries threaten to derail the dialogue, Mr. Khan said time had come for both the countries to show their people that relationship could move forward under any circumstances. “When a new visa regime is put in force, then it should be honoured and agreements should not be put in abeyance or suspended under pressure at the eleventh hour,” he said referring to the reversal of the liberal visa policy after the incidents on the LoC this year. {This means that TSP will raise this in the one-on-one meeting. India will, as usual, concede this to Pakistan and we will open the flood gates shortly.}

sunnyP · Post by **sunnyP** » 26 Sep 2013 20:15

Militants attack under-construction dam in Mohmand

GHALLANAI: The under-construction Gandao Dam in the Mohmand Agency was damaged when militants attacked it early Wednesday, sources said. The Gandao Dam is located in the southern mountains near the headquarters of Haleemzai tehsil. The militants also set ablaze vehicles, including two trucks, two excavators, three tractors and other machinery at the worksite.

Meanwhile, three persons were killed and six others sustained injuries in an improvised explosive device (IED) attack when they were travelling towards the dam.The sources said that a contractor Shakoor Khan, along with six labourers, was on way to the under-construction Gandao Dam when the IED went off.

http://www.thenews.com.pk/Todays-News-1 ... in-Mohmand

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 26 Sep 2013 20:28

CRamS wrote: But that said, if I am the Indian army chief, I have to fight with the resources at my command, not the resource I wish I had. These kinds of suicide attack have taken place many times before. This could have been prevented to deny TSP the huge PR victory it got out of this.

Army cannot do much.

If it tries to stop the terrorists at infiltration time, it would amount to cross-border firing and MMS will get upset.

If it tries to kill these terrorists preemptively, then Omar Abdullah will get upset and call for repeal of AFSPA and MMS will get upset.

If no Armed personal die in the attack and only terrorists die, then Paid-media will say it is just a setup and MMS will get upset.

So the only course of action available for Army is to have few of their forces killed and only then kill the terrorists.

This is only level of preparedness allowed for "political" reasons. And forum rules do not allow discussing "politics".

rajanb · Post by **rajanb** » 26 Sep 2013 21:36

Sorry dear Crams, SS and Ramay

I tend to disagree unless you can disprove the following.

1) Keep in mind that there are our own country folk who are risking their lives in the armed forces and other associated agencies.
2) would you as a PM, advertise what punitive action you have taken? Then you are following in the footsteps of a brainless, Bush, Kissinger et al and other such individuals who need to be tried for war crimes?
3) Should you compromise your ops to gain brownie points?

Please remember I used the term PM. The position and not the individual! To use a name is to politicise the issue. Not solve it.

I reacted in anger to what happened in JK. But, I stepped back. the act by the terrorists were heinous.

Should we give PA a jhappad? YES!

Will they publicise it? NO.

Let us not take the west as an example. Let us not forget their crimes. Let us not forget their defeats after WWII. Numerous, except in the case of banana exporting countries and a fabulous op in terminating OBL.

As Bharatiyas, we have to fight for our own answer. And I do believe that the army will not let this go unpunished. Only, the aam aadmi like us will never be told. And, neither will the politicos have a choice.

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 26 Sep 2013 21:43

Belongs also to BENIS..but posting here:

Paki in Saudi accused of Raping 30 (Thirty).......SHEEP

Pakistani resident is facing charges of raping 30 sheeps belonging to a citizen in Al Aflag. The arrest came following a complaint received by the police station from a citizen reporting the capturing of the accused offender in the sheeps yard before midnight to conduct a sexual intercourse with the animals.

The sheep owner filed a complaint to the security authorities to analyze his cattle, Ministry of Agriculture will execute the analysis on the animals to complete the investigation procedures with the accused offender.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 26 Sep 2013 21:52

rajanb,

I would agree, and I am sure Indian army has paid TSPA back in the same coin. But remember, paying back in the same coin is not good enough. The response has to be disproportionate to convince TSP that there are no gains in these type of attacks. That we have not deterred TSP shows that there is a method to their madness, and they are playing to a strategy.

Why do you think TSP attacks like this time and again. They do seem to have gains in them. Look at the history of the past 20 years. India's stance on Kashmir has certainly come down from Kashmir is an integral part of India, and no discussions on that, to what it is today, discussing all issues including Kashmir (and the lull when MMS promised MushRat "joint sovereignty").

What TSP wants is a Kashmir centric agenda front and center, with itself, Harried rats, and potentially our WKK traitors and 5th columnists on one side, and India on the other. Does India stand any chance in such a dialogue? But thats what they are aiming for.

And you see in this formulation, they will always say they are not averse to dialogue, but they will say any dialogue sans Kashmir is worthless. And they have international backing on this position because by not discussing Kashmir up front, which is a "dispute" as per "international community", it is India that is the intransigent party and hence such attacks have legitimacy. TSP is brilliantly playing the cards it has up its sleeve.

You see a complex truth about TSP state perfidy, its real goals and motives have been buried by these simple falsehoods, which no Indian govt has been able to counter and thanks to US perfidy.

rajanb · Post by **rajanb** » 26 Sep 2013 22:45

Nice post CSR.

Personally I would love TSP to implode.

However, there are so many realities to factor in. And navigating it, for a growing economy, and YES we have our own lack of character to deal with in terms of corruption, lack of justice, being held to ransom by a parliament which does not want to be held accountable. Crossing all party lines!

Then the "might is right syndrome", which gratefully Putin defused in Syria. The mantra of money pervades. The wahabism. The green on green etc.

For someone to navigate that, in my opinion, is to produce a great man who can be loyal to morality and ideals. Karmic and dharmic. And sadly as a nation, we have been found lacking. In the private or public sector to find such a leader.

I still rue the day when IG stopped from destroying West Pakistan. But who am I to judge when I do not have all the facts in front of me?

In the meantime, I have turned to repose my faith in the armed forces, because I, as a voter, am lost for whom to vote for.

But hope pervades.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 26 Sep 2013 22:57

CRamS wrote: 6. I am not a big fan of MMS as you all know. He is a disgrace, and I don't want to say anything else to respect forum guidelines. But at the same time, I think its a bit disingenuous for BJP and Modi to pile on him at this stage after such a ferocious attack, because this was an Indian army lapse, what could MMS have done? And in any case, what would BJP have done to prevent this attack?

Thanks to jhujar:

I think your comment on Ind Army is not right.

Vikas · Post by **Vikas** » 26 Sep 2013 23:13

Any Army chief who would let attack on his soldiers go unpunished is not worthy of occupying the chair, PMO be damned.
How long are Chiefs going to hide behind this impotent PMO or MoD. When you know that your Jawans are being killed by enemy from across the border, it is your job to respond in kind (and not in some unpublicized action in some god forsaken town).
Last I checked Armies are not meant to fly doves on Army day.