Indo-Israel: News and Discussion

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gunjur
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Re: Indo-Israel: News and Discussion

Post by gunjur »

Is Netanyahu an Existential Threat to Israel?
whole Iran scare is not about nukes per se, it is about Israel's fear of losing the ability to do whatever it wants to, whenever it wants to. Bomb Gaza. Bomb Lebanon. Bomb Gaza relief ships. Bomb whoever, whenever. It is about regional hegemony. After all, militarily Israel can more than handle Iran and both countries know that.
Netanyahu's plan requires the United States to jump in to bail Israel out once it begins a war it cannot finish, but Obama, like Bush, won't permit it. So what is Netanyahu to do? He will defeat President Obama (at least in his dreams) and bring in a Mitt Romney under the sway of Sheldon Adelson. He believes Romney would go to war and so he is engineering conflict with the United States to tip the election. (so obama it is then)
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Re: Indo-Israel: News and Discussion

Post by Vipul »

Indian soldiers lauded in Israeli textbooks for freeing city.

While remaining unknown in their own country, some Indian soldiers will become household names in Haifa in northern Israel after figuring in the history textbooks taught at schools for their contribution in liberating this city in 1918.

The municipality of Haifa has gone ahead with its decision to immortalise the sacrifices made by Indian soldiers, many of whom are buried in the cemetery here, by including the stories of their valiant efforts in liberating the coastal city during the First World War in the school curricula as part of the history textbooks.

"The move is a part of Haifa municipalities efforts to preserve the city's history and heritage," Hedva Almog, deputy Mayor of Haifa told people gathered to pay respects to Indian soldiers who made ultimate sacrifice in the war to liberate the city.

Haifa Historical Society has done an extensive research on the role of the Indian army in the region.

As per their findings, a large number of Indian soldiers sacrificed their lives in this region during the First World War and nearly 900 are cremated or buried in cemeteries across Israel.

Almog said that the municipality is planning big centenary celebrations to commemorate the event in 2018, calling upon India to join hands in making it a success.

Charge de Affaires at the Indian mission in Tel Aviv, Vani Rao, reacted positively to the request extending support in organising the Centenary celebrations.

The Indian army commemorates September 23rd every year as Haifa Day, to pay its respects to the two brave Indian Cavalry Regiments that helped liberate the city in 1918 following a dashing cavalry action by the 15th Imperial Service Cavalry Brigade.

Residents of the Israeli city also celebrate Haifa Day the same day with a series of cultural programmes during the week.
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Re: Indo-Israel: News and Discussion

Post by Uri_T »

Vipul wrote:Indian soldiers lauded in Israeli textbooks for freeing city.

While remaining unknown in their own country, some Indian soldiers will become household names in Haifa in northern Israel after figuring in the history textbooks taught at schools for their contribution in liberating this city in 1918.

The municipality of Haifa has gone ahead with its decision to immortalise the sacrifices made by Indian soldiers, many of whom are buried in the cemetery here, by including the stories of their valiant efforts in liberating the coastal city during the First World War in the school curricula as part of the history textbooks.

"The move is a part of Haifa municipalities efforts to preserve the city's history and heritage," Hedva Almog, deputy Mayor of Haifa told people gathered to pay respects to Indian soldiers who made ultimate sacrifice in the war to liberate the city.

Haifa Historical Society has done an extensive research on the role of the Indian army in the region.

As per their findings, a large number of Indian soldiers sacrificed their lives in this region during the First World War and nearly 900 are cremated or buried in cemeteries across Israel.

Almog said that the municipality is planning big centenary celebrations to commemorate the event in 2018, calling upon India to join hands in making it a success.

Charge de Affaires at the Indian mission in Tel Aviv, Vani Rao, reacted positively to the request extending support in organising the Centenary celebrations.

The Indian army commemorates September 23rd every year as Haifa Day, to pay its respects to the two brave Indian Cavalry Regiments that helped liberate the city in 1918 following a dashing cavalry action by the 15th Imperial Service Cavalry Brigade.

Residents of the Israeli city also celebrate Haifa Day the same day with a series of cultural programmes during the week.

I am from Israel and I live in Haifa you can read more here

http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... f=3&t=5444

http://www.idf-armor.blogspot.co.il/
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Re: Indo-Israel: News and Discussion

Post by pentaiah »

Shalom and welcome Uri
gunjur
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Re: Indo-Israel: News and Discussion

Post by gunjur »

Israel navy takes over Gaza-bound ship Estelle
"As a result of their unwillingness to cooperate and after ignoring calls to change course, the decision was made to board the vessel and lead it to the port of Ashdod," the military said, indicating that troops "did not need to use force."
On board the ship are 17 passengers, among them five parliamentarians from Europe and a former Canadian lawmaker, organisers said.
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Re: Indo-Israel: News and Discussion

Post by Ameet »

ramana
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Post by ramana »

http://idrw.org/?p=16556#more-16556

Israel and India are discussing cooperating in the development of weapons systems. “Defense News” reports from New Delhi that one of the aspects of this trend is India’s wish to procure and manufacture the Iron Dome system against short-range missiles.

During a visit to India last week, Ministry of Defense director general Udi Shani discussed with India’s Defense Secretary Shashi Kant Sharma the progress of current defense projects by the two countries and plans for potential projects. “Defense News” said that Israeli diplomats in India and Israeli government officials and defense industry sources declined to comment on the report.

The discussions on the Iron Dome system focused on India’s wish to procure it on a “buy and build” basis; in other words, to procure the Iron Dome and obtain a license from Israel to manufacture it. An Indian source said that Israel had agreed to sell the system to India, but was hesitant about selling to India the technology needed to manufacture it. The report did not say whether the US would agree to the proposed deal.

Current Israeli-Indian projects include development of a medium-range ballistic missile and development of a long-range ballistic missile at a combined cost of $2 billion. The two countries are also developing a ground-to-ground missile. India media reports say that this is a program of India’s Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO), but that, in practice, Israel is a partner through three companies: Israel Aerospace Industries Ltd. (IAI) (TASE: ARSP.B1), its subsidiary Elta Sytems Ltd., andRafael Advanced Defense Systems Ltd., according to sources quoted by “Defense News”. Shani and Sharma discussed extending the range of this missile from 1,000 kilometers to 3,000 kilometers.:?:

The list of future projects discussed included a plan to develop aircraft-launched micro-satellites, and plans to develop laser-guided missiles and munitions. According to an Israeli defense source, other possible plans include specialized radar systems, such as an airborne system for Indian-made light combat planes, and a long-range system for tracking ballistic missiles. At this stage, it is not known whether the parties reached a final agreement during Shani’s visit about which projects will go ahead.

Shani and Sharma also discusses delays in the joint project to develop a long-range naval missile to protect India Navy ships from aerial attack. The $600 million project, begun in 2005, is still in the testing stage, even though it was supposed to be ready by mid-2012. IAI is the Israeli contractor in this project. The missile was tested in Israel in July. Sources said that the missile would probably be operational in mid-2014.
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Re: Indo-Israel: News and Discussion

Post by D Roy »

Current Israeli-Indian projects include development of a medium-range ballistic missile and development of a long-range ballistic missile at a combined cost of $2 billion. The two countries are also developing a ground-to-ground missile.
sounds suspiciously like a DDM "derivation" of the MRSAM and LRSAM projects.

I think 'ballistic missile' is a mistake here. I think this is a reference to the land based and naval versions of the Barak-8.
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Re: Indo-Israel: News and Discussion

Post by Rony »

New 'Weapon' for Missionaries: 'Christian Prayer Shawl'
Christian missionaries have found a new, wily way to spread their beliefs to innocent Jews who have no interest in Christianity – co-opting yet another Jewish symbol and forcibly “converting” it, for use in entrapping Jews into worshipping Jesus.

In the latest “round” of the missionary war against believing Jews, a group has been soliciting Jews strolling through the Ben Yehuda pedestrian mall in central Jerusalem and offering passersby a low-cost or free prayer shawl (tallit).
One family of tourists who took up the group's offer was shocked when they opened up the package it came in; on the edge of the shawl, used in weekday and Sabbath prayer services, an embroidered “blessing” thanks G-d for “fulfilling the words of the Torah and prophets through Jesus.”
The family quickly contacted Yad L'Achim, an Israeli anti-missionary organization that works to prevent this kind of “religious consumer fraud.” The family, said Yad L'achim, said that they had witnessed numerous incidents of Jews taking the prayer shawl. Many of them, the family said, are likely to put on the shawl and use the blessing embroidered on it, as their knowledge of Judaism is minimal.
An anti-missionary activist said that the groups fighting missionary fraud had no argument with Christianity – but t had a big problem with Christian missionaries using what he called “underhanded tactics” to fool Jews into accepting their beliefs.
“Judaism is not Christianity - and attempts by missionaries to claim that it is, misleads many Jews each year. We are dedicated to halting this fraud,” the source said.
Dont forget to read the comments.
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Re: Indo-Israel: News and Discussion

Post by sanjaykumar »

http://www.newstatesman.com/world-affai ... iers-india


Perhaps Israelis need to be trained in the elements of civilised behaviour when they buy their plane tickets.
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Re: Indo-Israel: News and Discussion

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OBAMA VOWS UNWAVERING SUPPORT FOR ISRAEL
Vowing eternal support for America's top Mideast ally, U.S. President Barack Obama on Wednesday assured Israel of his personal commitment to its security and delivered a blunt warning to its foes that the United States has the Jewish state's back.

Arriving in Israel on his first trip to the country as president, Obama told the Israeli people at an extravagant welcoming ceremony that "peace must come to the Holy Land" and that goal would not be achieved at Israel's expense. U.S. backing for Israel will be a constant as the Middle East roils with revolution and Iran continues work on its nuclear program, he said.
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Re: Indo-Israel: News and Discussion

Post by Agnimitra »

Economist:
Why is there talk of a “one-state solution” for Israelis and Palestinians?
In fact this is an old idea dressed up to look new. Some Jews argued for a single binational state in the Holy Land long before Israel was created. Today, for those in Israel and abroad who find the idea of a state where everybody has to share ethnicity or religion antiquated, a single state sounds enticing. Those Israelis who abhor the idea of giving up any territory to the Palestinians, meanwhile, like the idea because it sounds as though they get to hold on to what they have. And to some outsiders, the one-state solution is appealing because the negotiation that might lead to separate states is so hard and has made so little progress.

People who talk of a one-state solution can thus mean completely different and incompatible things. On the hard right of Israeli politics it means expelling Palestinians to some third country (Jordan is frequently mentioned, though the Jordanians have no interest in this). For those on the left who favour a single state, it means a multi-ethnic, multi-confessional country in which a Palestinian Muslim might one day become prime minister. These two sides are not about to agree.

At some point in the future, demography will force Israel to choose between being a predominantly Jewish state or being a democracy, because Palestinians within Israel are reproducing at a faster rate than Israeli Jews. The only way to avoid this choice is to create a separate, viable state for Palestinians. Which suggests that people will revert to talking about a two-state solution before long.
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Re: Indo-Israel: News and Discussion

Post by Shanmukh »

Carl wrote:Economist:
Why is there talk of a “one-state solution” for Israelis and Palestinians?
In fact this is an old idea dressed up to look new. Some Jews argued for a single binational state in the Holy Land long before Israel was created. Today, for those in Israel and abroad who find the idea of a state where everybody has to share ethnicity or religion antiquated, a single state sounds enticing. Those Israelis who abhor the idea of giving up any territory to the Palestinians, meanwhile, like the idea because it sounds as though they get to hold on to what they have. And to some outsiders, the one-state solution is appealing because the negotiation that might lead to separate states is so hard and has made so little progress.

People who talk of a one-state solution can thus mean completely different and incompatible things. On the hard right of Israeli politics it means expelling Palestinians to some third country (Jordan is frequently mentioned, though the Jordanians have no interest in this). For those on the left who favour a single state, it means a multi-ethnic, multi-confessional country in which a Palestinian Muslim might one day become prime minister. These two sides are not about to agree.

At some point in the future, demography will force Israel to choose between being a predominantly Jewish state or being a democracy, because Palestinians within Israel are reproducing at a faster rate than Israeli Jews. The only way to avoid this choice is to create a separate, viable state for Palestinians. Which suggests that people will revert to talking about a two-state solution before long.
If the Israelis actually go in for a one state solution, they are going to commit national suicide. The moment the Jews become the minority (may not even require that if the Arabs are fully empowered), they will be chased out and we will have another Lebanon in Israel.
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‘Anonymous’ vows to wipe Israel off cyberspace
Israeli websites have come under massive cyber attacks in solidarity with Palestinians following a warning by the hacker group Anonymous that threatened to ‘erase’ Israel from the internet.

Websites including the sites owned by the Bank of Israel, Tax Authority, and the Central Bureau of Statistics came under cyber attacks on Saturday night.

Anonymous has vowed to “erase” Israel from the internet by disabling Israeli websites during an operation called ‘Op-Israel.’

“You have NOT stopped your endless human right violations. You have NOT stopped illegal settlements. You have NOT respected the ceasefire. You have shown that you do NOT respect international law,” Anonymous said in a statement referring to the Israeli regime.

“This is why on April 7, elite cyber-squadrons from around the world have decided to unite in solidarity with the Palestinian people against Israel as one entity to disrupt and erase Israel from cyberspace,” the Anonymous statement added, listing 1,300 Israeli websites as targets.

The Israeli daily Haaretz reported on Sunday that the hackers also attacked almost 19,000 Israeli Facebook accounts.

The first ‘Op-Israel’ was launched by Anonymous during the eight-day Israeli war on the Gaza Strip in November 2012.

Some 700 Israeli websites came under repeated cyber attacks.

The Israeli ministry for financial affairs reported an estimated 44 million unique attacks on the regime’s websites during the cyber operation in November.

In late March, the internet hacking group said on its twitter page that it gained access to the personal data of more than 30,000 Israeli officials, including military officials, politicians and Mossad agents.

According to Haaretz, Anonymous posted the online personal data of 5,000 Israeli officials, including names, ID numbers and personal emails after the first ‘Op-Israel.’
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Agnimitra
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Jewish Stars of Bollywood
Image
A talk at the Toronto Jewish Film Festival on April 14 will recall Jewish movie greats — like Sulochana, Pramila, and Nadira.

...

Was there any Jewish involvement in the creation of Bollywood itself, like in Hollywood?

It doesn’t quite compare because Hollywood was a studio system. Indian cinema was going for several years before the first studio opened. However, the first female superstar was the Jewish actress Sulochana (aka Ruby Myers), and she and other Jewish stars had a formative impact on the development of Indian cinema.

While in the early days of Hollywood the Jewish influence was behind the camera, in India it was front-and-center onscreen, but there were some important exemptions to this. Foremost of these is the scriptwriter David Joseph Penkar, who wrote the first talkie in India cinema, “Alam Ara” in 1931 that established the template Indian film was to follow.

Could you tell us about just a few of the biggest Jewish Bollywood stars?

Along with Sulochana, there’s Pramila (aka Esther Abrahams), the first Miss India, and Nadira, one of the all time great vamps of India cinema, who regularly featured in the films of legendary director Raj Kapoor.

Was there a Jewish influence on other elements of Bollywood cinema, like music, choreography, costumes or screenwriting?

Jews worked in all these fields, and some still do, but their major impact was on screen. They were the biggest of the big stars and pushed the boundaries of Indian cinema. I should, however, mention the late Bunny Reuben, the right hand man to Raj Kapoor and maybe Bollywood’s greatest-ever publicist.

This month marks the centennial of Bollywood filmmaking. Is there any awareness in India – or anywhere – about the roles Jews played?

I have spoken to many prominent industry figures in India past and present and few knew these people were Jewish. That is part of the story my film tells, which is because of the stage names of the Jewish stars people assumed they were Muslims. The Indian Jewish community was and is so tiny people don’t even know what a Jew is. They were often confused with a prominent minority, the Parsis.
...
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Re: Indo-Israel: News and Discussion

Post by Karan Dixit »

I always thought Nadeera was a muslim actress. I had no idea she was Jewish. I have to admit it surprised me to learn that there were so many Jewish actors/actress in Bollywood.
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Rockets fired across Egyptian border hit Israeli resort town Eilat
Militants in Egypt's Sinai Peninsula fired at least two rockets at Israel's southern resort town of Eilat early Wednesday, officials said, highlighting what Israel says is a dire security situation across its border.

Nobody was hurt in the attack, police said, although one rocket exploded near the courtyard of a house. A shadowy hard-line Muslim group, likely based in the Gaza Strip, claimed responsibility for the attack.
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Re: Indo-Israel: News and Discussion

Post by ramana »

Carl, the character actor David was also Jewish. After Dawood Ibrahim became the funder for Bollywood and the Khans took over there are not many Jewish players in Bollywood.
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Re: Indo-Israel: News and Discussion

Post by arun »

X Posting two posts related to Israel seeking to supply military equipment to the Islamic Republic of Pakistan:
SSridhar wrote:British report reveals Israel's security exports to Pakistan - Dawn

Israel has exported security equipment over the past five years to Pakistan and four Arab countries, Israeli newspaper Haaretz quoted a British government report as saying.

However, a spokesman of the Inter-Services Public Relations (ISPR) categorically denied the news report saying it was “misleading” and “not based on facts”.

The report says that in addition to Pakistan, Israel has exported arms and security equipment to Egypt, Algeria, the United Arab Emirates and Morocco.

The report deals with British government permits for arms and security equipment exports and was released by Britain’s Department for Business, Innovation and Skills.

The department oversees security exports and publishes regular reports on permits granted or denied to purchase arms, military equipment or civilian items that are monitored.

Haaretz reported that from January 2008 to December 2012, British authorities processed hundreds of Israeli applications to purchase military items containing British components for use by the Israel Defence Forces, or to go into systems exported to third countries.

The UK government reports also list the countries to which Israel sought to export the items. Among Israel’s clients are countries with which it does not have diplomatic ties.

The report says that in 2011 Israel sought to purchase British components to export radar systems to Pakistan, as well as electronic warfare systems, Head-up Cockpit Displays ‏(HUD‏), parts for fighter jets and aircraft engines, optic target acquisition systems, components of training aircraft, and military electronic systems.

Prior to that, in 2010, Israel applied for permits to export electronic warfare systems and HUDs with components from Britain to Pakistan.
ramana wrote:Important point to note by MEA.
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Re: Indo-Israel: News and Discussion

Post by Cosmo_R »

@Nageshks^^^

If the Israelis actually go in for a one state solution, they are going to commit national suicide. The moment the Jews become the minority (may not even require that if the Arabs are fully empowered), they will be chased out and we will have another Lebanon in Israel.
The Israeli Arabs will outnumber Jews by 2020.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/middle-east ... t-1.491122

Walls within walls?
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Re: Indo-Israel: News and Discussion

Post by habal »

In March 2013, Business Inside revealed that the United States is spending hundreds of millions of dollars building bunkers in Israel due to be completed 900 days from February 13, 2013. The project called Site 911 “will have five levels buried underground and six additional outbuildings on the above grounds, within the perimeter. At about 127,000 square feet, the first three floors will house classrooms, an auditorium, and a laboratory — all wedged behind shock resistant doors — with radiation protection and massive security. Only one gate will allow workers entrance and exit during the project and that will be guarded by only Israelis”.

Each door of the facility will have a detailed description of the mezuzahs written in “in-erasable ink”.
link
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Re: Indo-Israel: News and Discussion

Post by Shanmukh »

Cosmo_R wrote:@Nageshks^^^

If the Israelis actually go in for a one state solution, they are going to commit national suicide. The moment the Jews become the minority (may not even require that if the Arabs are fully empowered), they will be chased out and we will have another Lebanon in Israel.
The Israeli Arabs will outnumber Jews by 2020.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/middle-east ... t-1.491122

Walls within walls?
Well - the report is a bit of a hyperbole, but the essence is true. Arab fertility rates are higher than Jewish fertility rates, and sooner or later, the Arabs are going to become the majority, and Israel will have to make its decision fast. But Israeli politics is as fractious as ours is, so I don't know if they can come to a decision at all. And there is no good solution for them. If they give up West Bank, it will become another rocket launching pad for Hamas and its clones. If they don't give it up, it makes governing it hell. So - it is a lose-lose situation for them.
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Post by eklavya »

FT: Now it can be told
August 30, 2013 6:25 pm
Now it can be told
By Simon Schama

Historian Simon Schama on why he has finally been able to write ‘The Story of the Jews’

Has it been a wilderness in which I’ve been wandering for 40 years, like the Children of Israel taking the scenic route to the Promised Land? No, it hasn’t. But all the same it feels like a destination, with the emphasis on “destined”, or beshert, as we say in Yiddish.

The Yom Kippur war, which began on October 6 1973 with a bold, fierce Egyptian campaign back over the Suez Canal, undid any notions of Israeli invincibility that might have been fostered by the Six-Day War six years earlier. The sobering shock registered itself in all sorts of unanticipated ways. The archaeology of the Bible lands – which, after the Six-Day War, had some people hoping they might find David’s royal buildings or Solomon’s temple – took a radically sceptical turn. Another inevitability was undone: that of the mostly secular, socialist, decidedly unmessianic Labour Zionism as the perpetual government of Israel. In 1977 Menachem Begin, founder of the centre-right party Likud, was elected the first non-Labour prime minister, and a deep faultline opened up that has never been closed. Even before the first Palestinian intifada in 1987, there was much agonising over how best to bring peace without compromising security. Added to this dilemma was the question of what to do about the occupied territories, how to absorb the facts of Palestinian history into the Jewish story. There was, at least, no continuing the head-in-the-sand fiction that Palestinian nationalism was some sort of spurious invention.

But I was in England, in the Fens, teaching everything and anything, except the first history I’d ever known; the French, industrial and American revolutions, not the Jewish evolution. Some Friday nights and every Passover and new year would see me at the synagogue in Thompson's Lane, singing the tunes that were buried deep in my consciousness, dipping and bobbing, and even swaying a bit, the Hebrew I’d learnt as a child (and even taught) exerting its own peculiarly musical spell. But there were limits that my mother tested when she sent a Sabbath chicken by train to Cambridge. I had to collect the noisome bird but – ingrate that I was – swiftly binned it somewhere near St Andrew's Street.

And I found it hard, if not impossible, to talk to non-Jews, students, colleagues, the rest of the world about Jewish history without the subject being dominated by the smoke of the Holocaust and the fires of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. The rest appeared obscure, inaccessible, separate from the historical mainstream, whereas, thinking of Samuel ibn Naghrela, the poet who had probably been the commander of a Berber Muslim army, of Baruch Spinoza, of Franz Kafka and Albert Einstein, I knew this wasn’t at all true. It was not just that Jewish history was inexplicable without everyone else’s history, it was that the history of the world was inexplicable without Jewish history.

Which was why, I suppose, some time around the mid-1970s, Nicholas de Lange, Amos Oz’s translator and a scholar of philosophy in late antiquity, and I sent out invitations to anyone who wanted to gather in my rooms to talk about post-Biblical Jewish history. It was an informal reading and discussion group but it was the only place where history and literature students came together to do this. For a couple of hours after supper, the sages, the false messiahs, the poets and the revolutionaries barged their way into my modernist rooms, all (I blush at the memory) flokati rugs and knock-off Eames modernism. (I fear there may have been a burgundy beanbag.) We cracked walnuts and jokes; drank deep of the brimming cup of Jewish words.

It was, without meaning to be, mostly kosher. The little group entirely Jewish. Outside everything about Jewish history was muffled, embarrassed. Mainstream history was still struggling to find the right tone in which to write about the Holocaust, a phenomenon too monolithically evil to be explicable with the usual historical tools of the trade. Better to look respectful and pass on to the Reichstag fire. I, too, wanted to change the subject, to argue for a richer, less uniformly catastrophic Jewish history; even to restore the possibility of a Middle Eastern history where mutual calamity might not have been the only outcome. When I moved to Oxford in 1976 I even lectured on this, an unheard of thing in the Faculty of History, which did a lot of eye-averting and let me get on with it.

I was working on a book about the French Rothschilds and Palestine, and I was haunted by the Jewish history I somehow could not write. And not for want of being asked. The Oxford scholar Cecil Roth, who devoted a long prolific life to nothing else, had died before completing a volume on the Jews in a series called The History of Human Society. J H Plumb, who had been my professor at Cambridge, was its editor and he thought I was the person to finish it. I couldn’t say no, although I remembered the words of the wintry-wise preacher of Ecclesiastes: “My sonne ... of the making of many books there is no end and much studie wearies the flesh.” And how could I not be aware of the mountain ranges of scholarship throwing a long deep shadow over any novice gambolling in the foothills. But the opportunity was too serious to pass up. However rash the presumption, I believed that by writing a post-medieval history for a general readership, one that gave weight to shared experience, I could act as an interlocutor; persuade readers (and makers of history syllabuses) that no history, wherever and whenever its principal focus of study, was complete without the Jewish story, and that there was a lot more to it than pogroms and rabbinics, a chronicle peopled by ancient victims and modern conquerors.

. . .

This was the instinct I’d grown up with. My father was obsessed in equal measure with Jewish and British history, and assumed the fit between them. He would take the tiller at the back of a little boat on the Thames puttering along between Datchet and Old Windsor, with some strawberries, scones and a pot of jam in a basket, and talk of Disraeli one minute as though he had known him personally (“Baptised? What difference did that make?”), and the next of Shabbetai Zevi, a 17th-century false Messiah through whom my Dad (and the ancestral Schamas, reposing, large-arsed, on silky divans in Smyrna) had obviously seen (“What a momser [********]!”). Or who’d got their Jews right? Walter Scott or George Eliot; the caricaturing Dickens of Oliver Twist or the sentimental Dickens of Our Mutual Friend? We would moor under the willows to wrestle with the pain of Shylock.

It was from my parents, too, that I inherited the sense that the Old Testament was the first written history of all; that, for all the poetic excesses of miracles, it was the scroll of enslavements and liberations, of royal hubris and filial rebellions, of sieges and annihilations, of lawgiving and law breaking: the template on which every other subsequent history would be laid. If my Dad had written it, his history would have been called From Moses to Magna Carta. But he didn’t.

And neither did I, not in the 1970s. I tried, following on from Cecil Roth’s narrative. I moved, intellectually and archivally, around the Venice ghetto, through the Jewish cemetery on the Lido; along the Amsterdam canals where the Portuguese Marranos had camped and, astonishingly, had been permitted to build modest and then grandiose synagogues. I was there in my head at the tricky interview in Whitehall between one kind of godly man, Oliver Cromwell, and quite another kind, the Portuguese-Amsterdam Rabbi Menasseh ben Israel, over whether the English were ready to have Jews again amidst them, 360 years after they had been brutally expelled. Somehow, though, the graft wouldn’t take. Perhaps I was haunted by Roth’s possible disapproval of the unconscionable chutzpah of the whole thing: the gripes of Roth, I groaningly declared to friends. I abandoned the effort and then moved off to parts remote from my Jewish background, to Holland and South Carolina, Jacobin Paris and Skara Brae. But through all that time, the lines of the story I might have told stayed dimly present in my thoughts and memories, like relatives tugging gently but insistently at my sleeve at family weddings or funerals (which sometimes they did). Never underestimate the power of a Jewish auntie, much less the silent, patient reproach of a mother.

So in 2009, when Adam Kemp of the BBC arranged a meeting to talk about an idea for a new television documentary series “which you’ll either love or hate”, I knew, somehow, before it was out of his mouth just what was in the offing. There was, I admit, a fleeting Jonah moment. A voice inside me said, “Flee to Joppa, book berth on first ship leaving for Tarshish.” But, then, what good had it done Jonah? So, with gratitude and trepidation, I took hold of the project abandoned all those decades before. This time, the story would have the persuasive power of television behind it, and through the two media – writing and filming – organically interconnected but not identical, I hoped to build exactly that bridge between Jewish and non-Jewish audiences that seemed to elude me 40 years ago.

. . .

For all the challenges (three millennia of history in five hours of television and two books), this has been, and still is, a great labour of love. However unequal to the task of its telling (and anyone who thinks otherwise is kidding themself), I rejoice to be narrating this story, not least because the source materials for its narration have been so transformed over the past few decades. Archaeological finds, especially inscriptions from the Biblical period, have given a fresh impression of how that text that would become the heritage of a large part of the world, came into being. Mosaics have been uncovered that radically alter not just our sense of what a synagogue and Jewish worship was but how much of that religion was shared in its forms with paganism and early Christianity. Without forcing the narrative into smiley face pieties, and without playing down the many sorrows that have spotted the story with tears, the history that unfolds is one of the heroism of everyday life as much as that of the grand tragedies.

The book and the television films are full of such little revelations that add up to a culture, the prosaic along with the poetic: a doodle on a child’s Hebrew exercise page from medieval Cairo; battling cats and mice on a sumptuously illustrated Bible from Spain; the touchingly meagre dowry of an Egyptian slave girl from the fifth century BC married to a local Jewish temple official; a Jewish general of a Muslim army in 11th-century Spain watching his soldiers sleep in the ruins of an abandoned fort and composing lines of sombre, beautiful mf 1391 grieving for the death of his community and of his own son, who was of their number.

For good or ill, too, so much of the material newly unearthed or freshly considered ties together the history of the Jews with everyone else’s. I had been presumptuous to suppose 40 years ago it needed me to do it. The sources, the stories, the images, the architecture, do the work. We historians are just the enablers of their visibility. Those mosaics in the early synagogue are indistinguishable in style and even in content (the sun god Helios often appears at the centre) from pagan places of worship. The breathtaking wall paintings of the fourth century synagogue at Dura-Europos in Syria looks for all the world as though it owes a debt to Byzantine images whereas, in fact, it is their anticipator; Maimonides writes his Guide for the Perplexed in Arabic and every day Jews of his world write that Arabic but in Hebrew letters, making an unconscious or conscious marriage of tongues; well-to-do patrons and bigwigs in Germany hire Christian illuminators to make an imperishable work notwithstanding the fact they sometimes get the Hebrew characters wrong. The former monk Obadiah the Proselyte became a Jew in the 12th century and writes a plainsong chant about Moses that survived in a manuscript kept in the Cairo Geniza, the repository of every imaginable kind of document, and can now be found in the Cambridge university Library.

Much of this is the small stuff of common culture. But the Jewish story has been anything but commonplace. The tale the Jews have survived to tell is one of the most intense known to human history; it is a tale of adversities endured by other peoples too; of a culture perennially resisting its annihilation; of writing the prose and the poetry of life through a succession of uprootings and assaults. This is what makes this story at once particular and universal; the shared inheritance of Jews and non-Jews alike, an account of our common humanity in its splendour and wretchedness, repeated tribulation and infinite creativity, a tale that after those 40 years I felt I had to tell and that, in so many ways, remains one of the world’s imperishable wonders.

The first part of ‘The Story of the Jews’ is on BBC2 on Sunday September 1 at 9pm; the book of the same name is published by Bodley Head on September 12
ramana
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Re: Indo-Israel: News and Discussion

Post by ramana »

nageshks wrote:
Karan M wrote: Nagesh sir, the Syrian Govt is the primary supporter of Hezbollah. Getting Assad off, means one H of the two H (Hez, Hamas) which torment Israel are gone, reduced. IMHO thats the main motive they'd be happy with having Assad gone, after a fratricidal war in which Syria becomes a weak shadow of itself or a quasi US protectorate which will keep a peace with Israel, however tendentious. Having said that, I dont decry Israels strategic needs, but just pointing out how selective the US is when it comes to deciding who is good or who is bad.
PS:If you can read Hebrew, would appreciate you posting in the mil forum about any news, that you may come across, on Indo-Israel mil deals and cooperation.
I posted a far right Israeli viewpoint about the war http://frontpagemag.com/2013/dgreenfiel ... elp-israel, in which they prefer Assad. There are three reasons - they fear a Muslim refugee exodus into their northern borders. They cannot really stop it, and are worried about what it will do to their country. The second reason why they are afraid is that Assad has a base and wishes to live. The Syrian border has been stable for a long time, and even the Hezbollah have not used the Syrian border directly (they operate from their Lebanese bases). It is possible to have a deterrent of sorts vis-a-vis Assad. However, if Syria turns into a quagmire a-la Afghanistan, their deterrence will be gone. For one, Assad, pushed into a corner, may hand over his chemical weapons to the Hezbollah, or attack Israel himself. For another thing, bombing amorphous terrorists in the anarchy that will be Syria is all but impossible, and they are afraid it will turn into another Gaza type situation (where you can bomb the terrorists to bits, but it is useless, since the terrorists will run away when you bomb them and return after the bombing stops, and continue exactly the same thing as before). The third reason is that there is fairly limited cooperation between the Hamas and the Hezbollah. With Sunni terrorists on three sides of their borders, they are afraid that Jordan will be toppled as well, removing their last stable border.

The only bonus is removing Hezbollah. But Hezbollah is the symptom, not the disease. If Hezbollah is removed, another will take its place (probably a Sunni terrorist force). Israel hatred is the life blood of the Islamic middle east.

I can read Hebrew and would be glad to post about any Indo-Israeli deals that appear in the Hebrew press. But my military knowledge, particularly in comparison to the experts we have on BRF, is extremely limited. So - you may find my posts a bit lacking .....

Nageshks, This thread awaits your posts and contributions. We do need an insight into the local press is writing about India.

Thanks,

ramana
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Re: Indo-Israel: News and Discussion

Post by Cosmo_R »

@ nageshks ^^^. Some further thoughts about the dilemma:

“The right of return is a euphemism for the liquidation of Israel. If exercised there will be two Palestinian states and not one for Jews.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/23/opini ... ative.html

The exquisite juxtaposition is that implied by Stephen Cohen when he 'responds' to cRams about the collapse of the Pakistani state and a flood of refugees to India (their 'ancestral lands').

The Israelis have a choice: create your own Pakistan and shove all your Arabs there else, fight a two nation solution and get hauled up for human rights violations. Maybe you'll be hauled up anyway.

In India's case, it's "we've already created our Pakistan. Those of you who chose Pakistan as the homeland for the subcontinental muslims no longer have the right to return. " We'll accept Hindus, Sikhs, Christians whatever as refugees but that's it.

There are no free options of right of return unless you got the legions.
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Re: Indo-Israel: News and Discussion

Post by Shanmukh »

ramana wrote: Nageshks, This thread awaits your posts and contributions. We do need an insight into the local press is writing about India.

Thanks,
ramana
Here is an article written by an Israeli right wing author (political right, not religious right - their religious right is somewhat strange).

http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Op-Ed-Cont ... ies-323826

Ramana-ji,
The foremost worry for Israel is Iran, and overall, I cannot really blame them. Their main fear is that Iran will get its nukes, and will make their position impossible. So - in every article about anything to do with India, you will find comments about India not breaking up with Iran. During my stay there, both as a student and as a researcher, I have been confronted dozens of times by Israelis (even professors and research scientists) asking me why India is in bed with Iran, and don't we see how much we are making life miserable for them by going with Iran. As far as I know, this is the only irritant that exists towards India. They have a lot of respect for Hindus (both because India is the only country that has no anti-semitism, and also sympathy towards us as fellow victims of Islam) and Jews are not a missionary religion. Ten-fifteen years ago, they were worried about Indian love for Palestinians, but that is coming down these days. Mostly, they view India in a commercial spirit.
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Re: Indo-Israel: News and Discussion

Post by Shanmukh »

Cosmo_R wrote:@ nageshks ^^^. Some further thoughts about the dilemma:

“The right of return is a euphemism for the liquidation of Israel. If exercised there will be two Palestinian states and not one for Jews.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/23/opini ... ative.html

The exquisite juxtaposition is that implied by Stephen Cohen when he 'responds' to cRams about the collapse of the Pakistani state and a flood of refugees to India (their 'ancestral lands').

The Israelis have a choice: create your own Pakistan and shove all your Arabs there else, fight a two nation solution and get hauled up for human rights violations. Maybe you'll be hauled up anyway.

In India's case, it's "we've already created our Pakistan. Those of you who chose Pakistan as the homeland for the subcontinental muslims no longer have the right to return. " We'll accept Hindus, Sikhs, Christians whatever as refugees but that's it.

There are no free options of right of return unless you got the legions.
The problem, Cosmo-ji, is that the Palestinians are not willing to give up the `right of return'. Even the israeli left concedes that the right of return cannot be given to the Palestinians. But for the Palestinians, it is a way of ensuring that no final settlement is ever made - they do not want one. This is one reason why Israel is not willing to give up the West Bank (if they do, they will have no leverage at all with the Palestinians). The general feeling in Israel is that there can be no peace because the Palestinians do not want peace. While this feeling is not exactly fair, they do have a few points. Everytime they have conceded anything to the Palestinians, it has only increased hostilities towards the Jews. They gave limited autonomy to the Fatah in 93, and it brought about an intifada a few years later (endorsed by Yasser Arafat). They gave up Gaza in 05 and they only got a lot of rockets in return. They are unwilling to give up their last remaining leverage (West Bank) until the Palestinians agree to give up their right of return to israel. Even so, Israel will have about 17% Muslims (within non-West Bank Israel). But if the right of return is surrendered by the Jews, both Palestine and israel will become Muslim majority. However, there is a feeling that East Jerusalem should never be surrendered for peace (general feeling).

As for the peace process itself, it is about as useful as the Indo-Pakistani peace process. It basically consists of the Israelis making concession after concession, and the Palestinians launching various kinds of attacks (everything from rockets attacks to knife attacks) in return. They are just cynical these days, and have accepted that they will never have peace.
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Re: Indo-Israel: News and Discussion

Post by Shanmukh »

Israel says that it will not supply any weapons to Pakistan. Have they ever supplied any weapons to Pak?

http://www.ndtv.com/article/world/as-ti ... tan-418935
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Re: Indo-Israel: News and Discussion

Post by Shanmukh »

A slightly dated article (about two months old) about Kochi's Jews being explored by an Israeli.

http://www.jpost.com/Travel/Around-Isra ... nor-320484
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Re: Indo-Israel: News and Discussion

Post by Shanmukh »

Is attacking Israel/Jews becoming more mainstream in India's Islamist groups? Here is a report in Ynet news.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340 ... 93,00.html

Added: The Hebrew version of the article has a few interesting comments. Basically calls for deeper cooperation between the police and intelligence forces of the two countries.
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Re: Indo-Israel: News and Discussion

Post by Shanmukh »

Israel wants to get into Indian mobile business.

http://www.jpost.com/Business/Business- ... ies-326872
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Re: Indo-Israel: News and Discussion

Post by Shanmukh »

Israeli Right's view of the Palestinian Peace Talks

http://frontpagemag.com/2013/davidhorni ... -security/
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Re: Indo-Israel: News and Discussion

Post by Vayutuvan »

nageshks wrote:Israel wants to get into Indian mobile business.
Thanks for that article, nageshks ji. We should join hands with them. We have more shared values with them than even the US.
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Re: Indo-Israel: News and Discussion

Post by nagesh »

https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/?ui=2& ... 0o3fqj0&zw

Indian soldiers had participated in the liberation movement of Haifa in the year 1918. To commemorate the occasion, Forum For Integrated National Security (FINS), a social organization is organizing a seminar on the ‘Role of Indian soldiers in the liberation of Haifa’ on 1st October, 2013 at 0530 PM at India International Centre, Max Muller, Marg, New Delhi.
The seminar will be attended amongst others by senior defence personal like Lt Gen J F R Jacob, AVM H P Singh, Lt Gen N N Gupta etc. Shri Jaswant Singh, our former foreign minister will also grace the occasion.
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Re: Indo-Israel: News and Discussion

Post by chaanakya »

x-posted from Iran News as this has Israel connection as well


18 months, many inputs later, Iran says no info on Israeli diplomat 'attackers
In a move that has upset India, Iran has informed New Delhi that it does not have any records of the Iranians suspected to have carried out the bomb attack on an Israeli diplomat in the Indian capital and has asked for more details to follow up the request.

The communication is the first response from Tehran and comes after a year-and-a-half of several meetings and notes verbales from India.

In a two-line diplomatic communication sent in the last week of August, the Iranian foreign ministry has said that there are "no records of the Delhi bomb blast with the officials of Iran's judiciary" and asked India to send more information.

An exasperated New Delhi sees this as a stalling tactic adopted by Tehran since India has shared "very specific" details of the six people — five men and one woman — who are wanted by Indian investigating agencies for the February 2012 attack.

The Israeli diplomat, who was the wife of the defence attache at the embassy, and three others were badly wounded in the attack. Indian journalist S M A Kazmi, who has been named as a co-accused in the attack and was sent to jail, is out on bail.

The Sunday Express has accessed key information New Delhi has shared with Tehran about the Iranian suspects:

* Houshang Afshar Irani: Passport no: I-17287444, issued on 9.1.2010; Date of birth: 23.9.1972; Mobile no. (Iran): 9128808084; Profession: Building construction; Employer address: Afshar Irani company, No. 77, Shahid Babaei Street, Tehran;

Role: Executed the attack. India has put 44 questions for him.

* Seyed Ali Mahdiansadr: Passport no: J-14922614, issued on 25.12.2008; Date of Birth: 23.7.61; Father's name: Seyed Ebrahim; Profession: shopkeeper, mobile-seller; Address: Mahdian shop, No.52, Passajala, Marvi Street, Naser Khosrow Street, Tehran; Mobile no. (Iran): 9123020373; Role: Planning, did recce outside Israeli embassy. India has out 30 questions for him.

* Mohammad Reza Abolghasemi: Passport no: F-14772374, issued on 2.12.2008; Date of Birth: 21.3.1965; Father's name: Mohammad Javad; Profession: Finance clerk, Water authority; Address: No.23, Mahmoudi Alley, Ghitarich Street, Tehran; Role: Planning, surveyed the spot. India has put 30 questions.

* Sedaghatzade Masoud: Passport no: M-20305701, issued on 8.1.2011; Date of birth: 12.2.1981; Father's name: Abbas; Address: no.2, Mahmoodiyan Alley, Gheitariyenblv, Tehran; Mobile no: (Iran): 9123944144, Tel. No. 021-3944144; Profession: Sales employee in a commercial company; Employer's address: Pishgaman company, no.2, Aalaei, Street Hedayat, Street Baharestan, Tehran; Role: Part of the plot, was in touch with Houshang and was detained in Malaysia after the Bangkok attack. He applied for Indian visa, but didn't get it. India has put 7 questions.

# Ali Akbar Norouzishayan: Passport no. A-21429735, issued on 27.6.2011; Date of birth: 27.12.1954; Mother's name: Hazhikanoom Roshanmanesh; Spouse: Fatemeh Noori; Address: No.16, 4 All Golha square, Tehransar street, Tehran; Tel. no. 021-44505272, Mobile no. 9125444652; Profession: Retired accountant; Employer's address: Moalem Street, Shariyati street, Tehran; Role: Part of the plot, was spotted in Bangkok during the attack, he applied for Indian visa but didn't get it. India has put 21 questions.

*Leila Rohani: Passport no: M-20305600, issued on 8.1.2011; Date of birth: 18.7.1980; Father's name: Hossein; Address: Tehran; Role: Instrumental in transferring money to accused Indian journalist Kazmi. India has put 7 questions.

These details are in a 52-page letter rogatory (LR) and was first handed over by a Delhi Police team that visited Tehran in August last year. The details were taken from visa forms filled by the suspects to visit India as tourists.

Sources said that while Indian officials handed over the LR to Iranian authorities, New Delhi found them making flimsy excuses — that they have not received a questionnaire, have not got any red corner notice and that they need the LR to be translated to Persian.

They also asked the Indian officials to send the LR through diplomatic channels and this was done in September last year.

The CBI sent two requests to the Iranian authorities — on December 6, 2012 and again on February 15, 2013. The Indian embassy in Tehran pursued it with Iranian authorities on February 17, 2013 and again on March 20, 2013.

While India did not expect much during the time Iran was in election mode until around mid-June, it was hoped that the new moderate regime of President Hassan Rouhani would ensure a thorough probe.

But the first communication from Tehran has left New Delhi very disappointed and also surprised at the new regime's response.
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Re: Indo-Israel: News and Discussion

Post by Shanmukh »

Looks like Israel Chemicals is opening more fertiliser factories in India.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340 ... 78,00.html.

The original article is pretty old (about a month and a half) I found a follow up article on Ynet in Hebrew about this, which says that Zuari and ICL are continuing their negotiations for the two plants in `eastern India'. No mention of the place where the plants will be located.
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Re: Indo-Israel: News and Discussion

Post by Shanmukh »

Israel and India agree on joint R&D fund.

http://www.jpost.com/Business/Business- ... und-328196
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Re: Indo-Israel: News and Discussion

Post by Shanmukh »

Here is an article about Indo-Israeli cooperation in the wake of the Nairobi attacks.

http://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-news-an ... ry-romance

I think the author is a bit too generous to the US in his evaluation of the US facilitation of the Indo-Israeli relations. But the basic point remains.
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