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Sagar G · Post by **Sagar G** » 12 Sep 2013 14:15

Awesome Lilo ji, slow claps.........

member_20317 · Post by **member_20317** » 12 Sep 2013 17:12

RamaY wrote:What is the objective of ECONOMY thread?

Is it collecting links from today's news paper and write supporting/sympathizing posts for the current (Whoever is in power on a given day) political dispensation ONLY?

Why criticism of current GoI's policy is pushed away in the name of "discussing politics"? Is FSB or NREGA, which costs more than 20% planned budget and positively/negatively impact 500+ million people, an economic discussion or political discussion?

Why discussions alternative visions for economic policy are not allowed or curtailed in that thread?

I am also of the same view.

I suggest we should have a Political Economy thread too. Somewhere we can explore how the political scene is hampering the economy and economic reasons are used to undermine the polity of the nation. In fact a whole lot of posts after this one http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 0#p1508825 by Atri Garu can be shifted straight to this new thread possibility.

Mods will never allow us to discuss these things in the NaMo vs. Dynasty thread. When in fact this is the main parameter for comparison between NaMo and Dyansty. Why else are they competing in the general elections?

It is the same situation as was with the Indian Interests thread. We could not discuss Bharatiya issues so a separate Bharatiya thread had to be opened and then the Secularism thread had to be opened to take on new perspectives obtained in the Bharatiya thread.

Lilo · Post by **Lilo** » 12 Sep 2013 17:33

X-posted

rsangram wrote:
Rahul M wrote:this is a very serious accusation. but nothing presented so far convinces me that rsangram is a pakistani masquerading as an Indian.

disagreement on opinions does not automatically make someone a paki. in any case we have nothing against pakis participating here provided they follow the board rules. let's not act like the deff and dumb fora guys.

to sum up, unjustified accusations about a member is taken very seriously by the mods.
consequently, I would expect the past few posts to disappear as quickly as possible, by the posters themselves. otherwise very stern action would follow when the 24 hr window closes.
- Rahul.

p.s. there shall be no more posts on this topic.
Thanks.

My offer still stands. I am happy to identify myself to the administrators.

However, one thing is perplexing. If the article quoted by LILO is authentic, then even I would starting suspecting that I am a Paki . I mean, the three sentences there are exact word for word matches between my post and that article. Please check the genuineness of that article that LILO has quoted here. It just cannot be, I mean it can be, but I cant believe it. My words in my post are all mine and I did not lift them from anywhere.

Also, my posts are consistent. My words are damning to the Pakis. I dont know how that makes me a Paki. But it is true that the main thrust and themes of my posts are damning towards not only the Indian Government but also Indian system of government which includes the Indian constitution. This is because I do not think the the Indian constitution as it exists right now, our system of government and our governing institutions serve the cause of either Hindus or India in any way. Therefore, I do advocate a change in the system and I am not averse to considering the so called "non-democratic" means to change them. I do not believe that tyranny can be overturned or overthrown by democratic means and I believe that we live under a tyranny of a Hindu Enslavement System imposed on us by the West and the Islamists.

I also believe that after a thousand years of oppression and subjugation, while so far, Hindus, despite suffering shrinkage in their territory consistently, and despite enduring tremendous assaults on their culture from all sides, have survived, but now the negative effects are becoming very evident and Hindus are at an inflection point. With Hindus now confined to only the sub-continent, and even the subcontinent more than 40% plus Islamic, they are well on their way to oblivion and very quickly if the trajectory is not reversed. Apart from common sense and logic which says that this downward trend will not only not reverse but accelerate under this Hindu Enslavement System, the empirical evidence clearly suggests that we are heading down, not up.

Yes, this is Kalyug, where the evil rule. But I do not believe that we are doomed to endure Kalyug without a fight. Lord Krishna in Geeta said that ours is not to be concerned about results, ours is to do our "Dharma" and "Karma". We cannot control the results, but we certainly can follow the right path, the path of righteousness, the path of Dharma. The path of Dharma cannot be this Hindu Enslavement System, otherwise our scriptures and Lord Krishna would have talked about a system akin to "democracy" and "socialism". Lord Krishna, Lord Rama and all our mythical figures are a prime example, of how we fight "adharma", and they involve weapons and they involved arms, but none of them involve "secularism" or "socialism".

Even if Kalyug dooms us to bad results, let us at least go down doing the right things, following the right path and not merely live like animals, indulging in gluttony, un-ending appetites for things - all unhealthy, which make us corrupt and force our inner selves to compromise with corruption and sink to depths, which degrade us, defile us, destroy our soul. Kalyug can only at worst kill our bodies. It is only us, who can kill our soul.

Adeela Naureen Motorham ji !!
Thij ijj why I pheel joo will pe an invaluaple addishun to LMU. Pleajj ouar offar alljo estill stands far joo to join LMU...
In the mean-e-time Plijj to dekho pelow my mail to mods about joo, almost a manth pack...(sarry sum estrategitactical text is expunged)

Archan ji,
In follow up to my previous allegation ... Did the xxx xxxx check reveal if xxxx xxxxxx ...?

I have strong reasons (>xx% prob) to consider him/her a paki based on
his/her post history of over 140 posts .. Too much xxxx xxxxx xxxxxx with his/her posts
http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/search ... 2&sr=posts

Too long to list here. But then iam also concerned about
xxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxx.

But the biggest clincher is that
Being a paki journalist it suits him/her to get quotable quotes by penning
them by himself/herselves while in mufti in brf for their article.

Please see the post by rsangram which convinently gets quoted in the article ...
http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 0#p1320050

http://www.nation.com.pk/pakistan-news- ... lity-check

Starting from being an apparent novice to Indian affairs in his first
post where he funnily calls malayalis as MALAYALAMS ... he is these
days proclaiming himself a karma yogi (i mean is there really a karma
yogi who openly hails himselves as one?) and giving lectures on Indian
affairs and on how to deal with IM issues....
http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 9#p1319569

Words like dharma adharma karma Arjuna etc glibly slip off his tongue
with no real feel to their meaning (which even IMs have because of xxxxxxxxxxx xxxxx) ... In turn he is playing to the gallery by
echoing the themes employed by reputed posters in brf and egging those
who engage him to express more and more extreme opinions on IMs
http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 4#p1496584

in case he/she is a paki .My suggestion is to xxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxx

If you are still unsure I will proceed by calling him/her a paki on his next
post ... But these days I am on a tablet and can't engage in prolonged
cyberbattles.

PS: got to hand it to this person , his/her posts reveal an progressive
immersion akin to professional ethnographers and looks to be a
good example of online ethnography
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Online_ethnography

Also cc ing this to few of the mail ids of brf

See motorham ji, I too know joo Hape put tremendous effort to pull this off...my praise for joo at the end of my mail ijj wajj my acknowledge ment of thijj. Sarry far gender pending in the mail then , didn't know that joo are a motorham - eye came to know that part later.

Put plizzz to rememper thijj -- when joo want to do gufiya undercober reporting on dirty kuffar yindoos...joo hape to know sam basics...or elje joo will pe exposed.Onlee.

1)Unlike Baki Abdphools and theiyar Mullah's most Indians don't plindely accept dharmic pravachan without confirming its logical abblication.
2)Just pecause in bakiland uttering jazzakallah , la'hole via Kuwait , alhamdulhillah, inshallah etc will make one a bious berson...doesn't mean its the same with dutty yindoo kaffir like ujj...

So try ajj much, juar pious yindoo act quoting BG,Krishna, Rama,Kalyug,Dharma,Adharma will not cover logical inadequacies in juar pravachan and joo will be known phor what joo are...

PeeyasS:Don't go JEEHAARD on Googal chacha on the meaning of "Pravachan" - it roughly means "a sermon"

Virupaksha · Post by **Virupaksha** » 12 Sep 2013 20:09

What is this nonsense I am seeing about people being offended and so on and the mods acquiescing to that?

I am offended when Theo Fidel says Aryans and dravidians are two different people and I am not both.
He talks about a lost continent from where the dravidians (the hidden meaning being the "true" South Indians, who have converted and dalits). That talk was being laughed out of BRf by talking about Lemuria, the western name for that lost continent. He goes running, "I am offended, I am offended. Ban the free speech."

I thought that the dark ages caused because the church said "I am offended, I am offended, Ban the free speech" was in 1600s. Guess the dark ages caused because of that same talk continues here.

If strictures are being passed on Lemuria because of somebody being offended, I want any talk that Aryans and dravidians are seperate be banned as the same hate speech, because I am offended.

Two can play this game of "I am offended".

Oh and Lemuria was germane to the conversation.

http://www.amazon.com/The-Lost-Land-Lem ... Descending

Sumathi Ramaswamy, an associate professor of history at the University of Michigan - Ann Arbor has written a captivating account of what in the West has come to be known as Lemuria, or Mu, a lost continent in the Southern hemisphere variously placed in either the Pacific or Indian oceans. First postulated in the mid-nineteenth century by geographers, biologists and evolutionary theorists as an explanatory mechanism for the similarity of flora and fauna found in Southeastern Africa, Madagascar and the Indian subcontinent, Lemuria captured the attention and imagination of occultists like Helena Petrovna Blavatsky - who saw the sunken land mass as the primordial home of a divinely engendered humankind - as well as nascent Tamil nationalists eager to promote the notion of a vast Tamil empire, now lost, whose sole contemporary remnant is the Tamil-speaking regions of Southernmost India and Northern Sri Lanka. It is on the role of this "lost world" in the elaboration of Tamil origins, identity, communal solidarity, and aspirations to nationhood that the author focuses.

Hail Lemuria

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 12 Sep 2013 21:54

ravi_g wrote:
RamaY wrote:What is the objective of ECONOMY thread?

Is it collecting links from today's news paper and write supporting/sympathizing posts for the current (Whoever is in power on a given day) political dispensation ONLY?

Why criticism of current GoI's policy is pushed away in the name of "discussing politics"? Is FSB or NREGA, which costs more than 20% planned budget and positively/negatively impact 500+ million people, an economic discussion or political discussion?

Why discussions alternative visions for economic policy are not allowed or curtailed in that thread?

I am also of the same view.

I suggest we should have a Political Economy thread too. Somewhere we can explore how the political scene is hampering the economy and economic reasons are used to undermine the polity of the nation. In fact a whole lot of posts after this one http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 0#p1508825 by Atri Garu can be shifted straight to this new thread possibility.

Mods will never allow us to discuss these things in the NaMo vs. Dynasty thread. When in fact this is the main parameter for comparison between NaMo and Dyansty. Why else are they competing in the general elections?

It is the same situation as was with the Indian Interests thread. We could not discuss Bharatiya issues so a separate Bharatiya thread had to be opened and then the Secularism thread had to be opened to take on new perspectives obtained in the Bharatiya thread.

All discussions about politics and the political economy go into the Narendra Modi / Congress gameplan thread. There are *tons* of references to the economy in both those threads, and they are effectively unmoderated in this regard unless people start attacking one another. Silo the discussions within those threads and you're good to go.

nikhil_p · Post by **nikhil_p** » 18 Sep 2013 13:12

Any idea if I could use Tapatalk or such to access BR Forums on my I-device/ Android/ BB etc!!..

If not, what would it take for us to implement such a way -...A lot of us have these devices now and I think it prudent to have access on the go as well...

BRAdmins plizz to advize...

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 26 Sep 2013 18:54

SSridhar wrote: I am ashamed to call myself a citizen of this country.

That is not acceptable. How is it acceptable on BRF to belittle the whole nation, but one cannot call the PM of India a traitor?

Shame on you, BRF Moderators

archan · Post by **archan** » 28 Sep 2013 21:19

For the benefit of users:
Use of terms such as RoP, RoL and their derivatives, or made-up words hinting at religious dislike like "xongis" will result in warnings. There are a million things to criticize the party and govt. on, and people only want to focus on religion!

member_20317 · Post by **member_20317** » 28 Sep 2013 21:25

Bang in the head kind of warning.

or

provisio, exceptions, explanations, savings, 9 lives, illustrations, interpretative linguistics - kind of warnings.

And does that mean we call the ruling party - Indian National Congress?

Hell it would be ok by me if it brings back estranged old timers.

Lilo · Post by **Lilo** » 28 Sep 2013 22:18

Archan ji,

Wrt: xongi usage
Not to contest the redline, but you are utterly mistaken in my case(most probably in case of others too) that we use xongi with some religious insinuation against Christianity or some other religion. Actually I never came across anyone interpreting it this way.

Its more like categorizing a particular common behavior seen in congress camp who have this all pervading sense of sycophancy towards their dynasty and have their Borg like hive mind impermeable to any reason or argument or logic critical of their dynasty.Its just a catchy way of calling them.

Probable evolution of the word
Congress(I)->Cong(I)->Congi->Xongi (pronounced as 'Zongee' - as in XOR gate of electronics)

If I think about it x also signifies one who has lost his identity after congress brand of political corruption starting from a ideal mind and who is no more expected to come back - because he feeds on the system of corruption put in place by congress and is an actor in it. Like one who doesnt remember his roots anymore.Similar somewhat to the X in Malcom-X.

Maybe you can see it that way when you again come across this term in twitter or something.

member_20317 · Post by **member_20317** » 28 Sep 2013 22:40

How about Dhongi?

Would that hurt Hindu sentiments?

Lilo · Post by **Lilo** » 28 Sep 2013 23:09

^^ In my case it was my tablet's auto correct which originated the term one fine day after all those zingless "congi" typings I was doing. Later searched for it in peearef and saw Jhujar Avargal was already using the same term in his poetic renditions.. So it was extant for me to pick it and use it straight away.

At least one more term to reply to the labels of sanghi's and internet yindoos etc by MSM right from NYT ,to AL jazeera ,economist,Been, Al-Guardian leave alone so called "Indian" news outlets like rrNDTV,Outlook,Tehelka,CNN IBN, TNN,HT,Al-Hundi...all who have termed us disparagingly as "internet Hindus" - its painful actually.

The search continues to find a fitting term to respond to such people .

archan · Post by **archan** » 28 Sep 2013 23:10

Lilo ji you can provide n-number of deep psychological meanings and explanations to the "x". However, this is for the forum and so it stands. No usage.
You are welcome to call them Dhongi or crooks ityadi.
Our concerns are limited to the usage of language on this forum, not regarding sensitivities of any outsider/party.

Lilo · Post by **Lilo** » 28 Sep 2013 23:13

As I said archan ji, I am not contesting your redline.
Giving a background that is all.

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 29 Sep 2013 01:09

keeping it simple is better imo. con party or just inc is what i use.

just like how TSP is still the best term BRF invented and it is the one that sticks, even with people going creative with TIRP and what not.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 29 Sep 2013 02:12

archan wrote:For the benefit of users:
Use of terms such as RoP, RoL and their derivatives, or made-up words hinting at religious dislike like "xongis" will result in warnings. There are a million things to criticize the party and govt. on, and people only want to focus on religion!

Archanji,

Just curious.

Who is upset with derivatives like RoP or RoL? Is it followers of those religions or self-declared secularists? Why only certain people get to decide what is a good-name and what is not?

Or do the wise suggest people calling these religions with their original names, like Islam, Christianity and Hinduism etc?

Just want to be clear because I got warnings before for just saying RoP, while others continued to use it very freely. Got another warning when I spelled Islam as Izlam but we are all fine with Malsi.

Are we marching farward to the era of "riots started when a community desecrated a religious place, and resulted in deaths of 37 Hindus and 32 Muslims"?

Recently GoI declared the victims of Religous riots based on religion but we are yet to see 2011 census based on religion or a news paper reporting which community desecrated which religious place.

I am ok with whatever rule the wise come up with, but I hope it is not copied from Indian Express or ToI message board rules.

Thanks

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 29 Sep 2013 02:20

Deleted....as all is well.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 29 Sep 2013 02:22

Agree SwamyG garu. Shutting my mouth!

archan · Post by **archan** » 29 Sep 2013 02:39

RamaY wrote: Archanji,

Just curious.

Who is upset with derivatives like RoP or RoL?

I am. So?

RamaY wrote:Is it followers of those religions or self-declared secularists?

Based on my answer above, you decide, as you know who I am, my religion etc. I am happy to take any of those adjectives you may want to come up with.

RamaY wrote:Why only certain people get to decide what is a good-name and what is not?

See what it says under my username? that is why.
I know it sounds egoistic, but hopefully you've seen enough of me in person to know what I mean.

RamaY wrote: Or do the wise suggest people calling these religions with their original names, like Islam, Christianity and Hinduism etc?

Yes indeed, if you have to refer to religions, why not call them by their names?
Would it be fine with everyone if someone coins a phrase RoMG for Hindutva (Religion of a Million Gods) and calls all Hindus as RoMGers!

RamaY wrote: Just want to be clear because I got warnings before for just saying RoP, while others continued to use it very freely.

Had I seen that "free" usage I would have warned them. Yesterday I handed out 3 warnings, maybe some of them can volunteer here.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 29 Sep 2013 02:42

I would be proud to be called RoMGer because I am one of those million

Thanks for the answers Archanji.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 01 Oct 2013 09:10

I am starting to feel that there should be a religion for pisskology.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 01 Oct 2013 21:58

I left BRF in May 2013 out of boredom. All the news on BRF can easily be accessed simply by looking at IDRW or one of the defence blogs. I felt and still feel that I can make serious contributions to various topics but felt strangulated by BRF's fossilization and sclerosis. There is no more space on BRF for serious original contribution as used to be the case before BRM died.

BRF - which is still following many of the policies I encouraged, supported and enforced as administrator in an earlier era of the internet, is now the longest example of tunnel vision and inward thinking among internet fora. The internet has grown by leaps and bounds since BRF policies were set down. After leaving BRF I joined two other fora and although I was initially lost and it took some time for me to find my way about I found them an eye opening experience. The fora I am talking about are Defence forum India (DFI) which I joined when I discovered RayC there and Indiansforguns (IFG) which is a separate interest for me.

On the forum home pages of BRF, DFI and IFG the statistics tell a story. See the membership stats and the number of people who lurk.

DFI: There are currently 1127 users online. 77 members and 1050 guests
Most users ever online was 40,083, 12-03-12 at 06:33 AM.
Threads 42,755 Posts 770,333 Members 12,300
IFG: In total there were 2173 users online :: 95 registered, 7 hidden, 7 bots and 2064 guests (based on users active today) Most users ever online was 4178 on Mon 19. Nov 2012
Total posts 174453 • Total topics 15023 • Total members 10249
BRF: In total there are 149 users online :: 25 registered, 16 hidden and 108 guests (based on users active over the past 5 minutes)
Most users ever online was 575 on 28 Nov 2008 15:19
Total posts 998947 | Total topics 1866 | Total members 4942

These figures are a huge drop for BRF from its heydays when it ranked respectably among the top visited sites in the world. It need not get back there - but I think BRF could do better because it is dying. A has been.

It is dying because of outdated policies. Who pays for email any more? And how many people really have work email ids who will use it to join this forum when they can simply join any other active forum on earth.

I have kept an eye on BRF from time to time - more because I was familiar with its layout. Today, just after logging in I went and checked the Strat Forum. Exactly one new thread has been started since I went offline in May 2013 - and that is the Kenya mall shooting thread. Nothing else is new. The world goes past BRF but BRF does not really notice. It is a comfortable and cosy club of members who have got in and stayed in.

One of the reasons I left BRF was the absolute degeneration of the military forum from a well informed discussion board to an argumentative political forum. I have not bothered even looking at what was my favourite forum until today and I note that nothing worthy of a new thread has occurred in the military scene in the world since May 2013. The same old threads. And the same people of course. No valuable new contributors. I have missed nothing.

Then I looked at the forum that grew like a cancer while I was active on BRF. I was personally opposed to a secret forum - which I think is a very silly idea. Not sure why the secrecy is required - the discussions that go on there happen everywhere else quite openly. And that secret forum has grown in leaps and bounds. The membership of BRF has not expanded much, but it is a small private club - out of public view - like a place to change sanitary napkins and powder one's face. If that forum is popular it should be public. Why restrict it to a small club of people selected carefully from an elite club who have special email ids?

No forum is easy to administer and I have had a chance to observe administration on DFI and IFG. The total number of admins does not seem to be much higher, but policing is much lower causing thread proliferation, arguments and open disagreements. But the information is all there. There are people from all over the world - who add detail that BRF can never get with its "small town private club" attitude that is a hangover from the small internet of the 1997 to 2002 period.

Every time admins changed on BRF we got fresh blood and fresh ideas. There is no focus. No new ideas. No new policies. Admins need to rotate and retire. Ramana needs to bow out and rediscover the joys and sorrows of being an ordinary Abdul. He has made a career out of being a forum admin on BRF but it has been a decade since he last wrote an original article worth reading which he used to do once upon a time. Clearly originality, new thinking and an ability to guide the forum to new heights are not required for the post of lifetime admin. He is part of BRF's sclerotic thinking, in my view, and the only non founding admin of BR who has clung on desperately to his lifetime post.

Some friends requested me to get back on BRF. I have nothing against BRF as such but it has just ceased to be stimulating and there is much out there that can be learned and experienced by opening up and removing encrusted gunk. New people with free email ids and any names they want to choose should be allowed in and let members, thoughts and threads proliferate. If they are not Indian, so what? BRFites should be able to handle some heat. And its not always heat in any case. BRF has already lost its pre eminence, but still retains a few valuable thinking members. I am sure BRF can regain a respectable position - but not with its ossified thinking and membership policy where those who are in are so comfortable with each other that nothing new happens. No one seems to have the stimulus to start a new thread with a new line of thinking or a new take on something - except on the hidden hijab forum - where people talk to a carefully selected and bred BRFite audience.

Stimulation and growth comes from handling the challeneges of different thoughts and opinions and BRF policies are aimed at stopping that and retaining status quo. BRF is committing soosai. Not nice, but it need not be that way.

member_20317 · Post by **member_20317** » 01 Oct 2013 22:12

Shiv ji, thanks for posting after this long. Obviously I am not going to agree with you and since this thread is not meant for discussion I will refrain from discussing. In any case I have been trying to leave BRF from some time and this may be an opportune moment for me. I being the clearly political ******** that I am cannot agree with you at all but I do respect you. Esp. for your age. That may not mean much to you. It does to me and where I come from. Hope you come back to stay this time.

Pranam. As I leave you to your baby.

............

However before I leave I there would be at least some guys who may need to read what I have to say.

The bum pathakha discussion sessions could easily themselves have been the shatranj ke khiladi. Be careful.

I hope I am able to do justice to my chosen way and I hope you are able to do that too. Many of you have contributed to my growth some knowingly some did that unknowingly. I wish I can come up to your standards.

darshhan · Post by **darshhan** » 01 Oct 2013 22:23

shiv wrote:I left BRF in May 2013 out of boredom. All the news on BRF can easily be accessed simply by looking at IDRW or one of the defence blogs. I felt and still feel that I can make serious contributions to various topics but felt strangulated by BRF's fossilization and sclerosis. There is no more space on BRF for serious original contribution as used to be the case before BRM died.

......
Stimulation and growth comes from handling the challeneges of different thoughts and opinions and BRF policies are aimed at stopping that and retaining status quo. BRF is committing soosai. Not nice, but it need not be that way.

Shiv ji. Nice to hear from you after a long time.While I don't really post a lot, what you have said is totally valid. BRF today has become a small private club with many BRFites behaving like elitists. But hardly anyone else in the world cares. BRF could do well to get rid of extreme paranoia. Just as someone dares to open a new thread, he is swamped with "IB4TL" messages. What is this if not extreme negativity? There is no count of how many aspiring members BRF lost.

Incidentally there is this cause that most BRFites care deeply about. i.e Narendra Modi as future PM. And then they consign the thread dedicated to him in the secret forum (where it is assured to get less eyeballs). What an irony?

KJo · Post by **KJo** » 01 Oct 2013 22:41

shiv makes many great points. There needs to be a rethink of BRF. BRF was great when it began, and it is stagnating I think. There needs to be some discussion on the way ahead.

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 01 Oct 2013 23:03

shiv wrote:It is dying because of outdated policies. Who pays for email any more? And how many people really have work email ids who will use it to join this forum when they can simply join any other active forum on earth.

Due to a shortage of time, I'll address just this point. That's not accurate. If anything, having a non-free email is easier today than in times past. 5-10 years ago, many of us depended on web cafes to access the internet. Ubiquitous personal internet access did not exist. It was technically impossible for many to have anything but a yahoo/hotmail/etc account.

Today, most members probably have a smartphone, or some other means to access they internet exclusively, whether it be at work, home or mobile - all of these accord them an email ID that they can use to join this forum. Further, several members, after registration using a non-free email, modify their profiles to specify a free one, for portability reasons.

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 01 Oct 2013 23:04

the users online stats are very damning. quality is better than quantity yes, but imo, brf is not doing great on quality as well. we lost many great postors and imo, not many great newcomers.

Lilo · Post by **Lilo** » 01 Oct 2013 23:06

Shiv ji !!.

Now that we have you here...

Pertinent time for Admins , Mods and Members to state what their vision is on future of the forum and how the forum intends to achieve it. Lets have an open and serious discussion on the what and how for once. Let's those changes agreed to by logic(not majority or minority) be made to happen.

Let's have a hundred flowers campaign and let there be no Mao this time.
Wouldnt mind if people decide that burkha thread is required for this.

Ravig ji where are you running off to leaving this ?

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 01 Oct 2013 23:08

Suraj wrote:Today, most members probably have a smartphone, or some other means to access they internet exclusively, whether it be at work, home or mobile - all of these accord them an email ID that they can use to join this forum.

yes, but most people, especially indians in india, don't. they are happy with their free emails (gmail, yahoo etc) and they tend to use that in forums and the first snag they hit in registration, they lose interest and jump elsewhere...

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 01 Oct 2013 23:21

DFI format with it's 100s of new threads for every single news item is a good idea ?? Seriously ?
In BRF, there is a single separate thread for every topic like Small Arms, Artillery, Armour, China, Pakistan etc. It makes very easy for anyone to search, read and collect information.

But with forums like DFI, any member can open any number of threads with different links about the same event. It's impossible to have informed and detailed discussions over any topic.

As far as rest of the points are concerned, I agree with Shiv ji.
There should be no need for a non-free email id. Number of good posters leaving is much higher than the ones joining.
Burkha forum should be open. There are so many topics out there which need to be in open.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 01 Oct 2013 23:25

Waal, not that I count myself very high, but this prole was banned twice from BRF for his very first post in 2001 & 2004 and went back to lurk mode. Not just banned mind you, the entire company account was banned (Yes I tried to change my e-mail and sneak back in) and my office IP address was blocked! So I don't know what shiv saar is talking about when he says the admins are less tolerant now. To be perfectly honest I should have been banned many a time for some of my more 'moody' comments. Admins tolerate a heck of a lot now IMHO.

I'm uncertain what the point is about intellectual 'stimulation'. I visited the sites he praised and they are simply agglomerations of group think. The same folks saying the same thing over and over and over. You can read page 1 & page 398 and it will say the same thing. If this is what you want for BRF then it is a head scratcher. You can read 2 pages anywhere in the Econ thread and the topics will be completely different and all kinds of experiences expressed.

BRF is the only site left IMHO where the real world matters. The rest are now more verbal masturbation..... ..anything can be said anything goes as long as it is group think...

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 01 Oct 2013 23:27

Suraj wrote: Due to a shortage of time, I'll address just this point. That's not accurate. If anything, having a non-free email is easier today than in times past. 5-10 years ago, many of us depended on web cafes to access the internet. Ubiquitous personal internet access did not exist. It was technically impossible for many to have anything but a yahoo/hotmail/etc account.

Today, most members probably have a smartphone, or some other means to access they internet exclusively, whether it be at work, home or mobile - all of these accord them an email ID that they can use to join this forum. Further, several members, after registration using a non-free email, modify their profiles to specify a free one, for portability reasons.

Just having a smartphone, etc. is not useful. You basically need an ISP provided address to register here. Most people, especially in India don't even know they have one, because nobody ever uses it. I'm not sure if all the ISP's in India even assign one to all customers. Hell I still don't know what my MTNL provided email ID for our home connection in India is or even if there is one. It was the reason I could not join BRF when I was in India. I had to wait till I came to the US and got a new Internet connection. I know it was started as a means to keep out teenagers. But it is counter-productive to the forum I think.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 01 Oct 2013 23:30

Shiv,

I thought in old age one slows down !!!! No?

By and large I agree with you.

Too much tilt, politics, lack of discussion, lack of looking at things from all angles, tinted glasses, etc, etc, etc.

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 01 Oct 2013 23:38

Gus, nachiket: There was a reason for not permitting free emails, and the reason for that has not gone away. Both the lack of free/web email IDs for forum registration, as well as the use of real sounding names, was meant to make the forum presence personal, as opposed to generating member count and turnover via use-and-dispose registrations. Both those remain something we try to maintain.

I didn't claim that the problem of unique internet access has disappeared, but it is MUCH better today than it was a decade ago, when such access was essentially impossible to many because internet access was just not sufficiently ubiquitous, nor financially accessible to. It will only get better, not worse, and therefore it makes little sense to revisit an approach that first enabled the forum to have a more focused and personal involvement from its participants.

Changing rules because users are unaware that when they have a data plan they also have a usable email, or some other superfluous reason, is not really tenable. I first tried to register in 2000, but my registration was denied, first for using a free email, and a second time for reasons I don't recall. I lurked a couple of years before joining with my .edu ID of that time.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 01 Oct 2013 23:40

I recall - some 4-5 years ago - my email ID somehow got included in a chain email. The funny part was they were critical of my posts in a certain thread. It was fun while it lasted - which was just over a month or so.

But at the very same time, I think one of the things that made BR interesting was actually meeting people outside of BR - during BR meets.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 01 Oct 2013 23:49

ahem, BRF only records people active in last 5 min as 'online'. the time limit is much higher for DFI AFAI remember. (yes, I am a member as well) consequently, the number shown for members online is much higher for DFI.

I would like to clarify that BRF is in no competition with DFI and has nothing but goodwill for DFI. I am sure the feeling is mutual. personally, I consider most of their mods (Yusuf et al) as online friends.

a bit more scientific way of looking at activity is alexa

please see for yourself :
http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/bharat-ra ... afficstats
http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/defencefo ... afficstats

in short :
DFI
Global Rank 67,259
Rank in India 8,555

BR
Global Rank 43,463
Rank in India 5,284

added later
Indians For Guns
Global Rank 384,436
Rank in India 35,188
______________________________
to clarify once again, this is not a pissing contest. the way DFI has grown so quickly is really commendable.

coming to BRF, I think the two fora cater to similar but not exactly same types of enthusiasts. BRF is a bit more high brow with more attempts at dry serious analysis.
there has been a definite fall in standards, a fact recognized by the mods. even now, changes are in progress to address those problems. it may not be enough but I for one, am always open to new ideas.
as well as old hands coming back.

I agree somewhat to shiv ji's point about email. whatever relaxation BR now has in email (referral etc) happened due to my incessant pestering. but it couldn't be taken all the way mainly because lack of manpower in mod ranks.

but what Suraj says is very valid as well. a completely unregulated email registration would lead to multiple IDs and sock puppets. this is a real practical problem.

negi · Post by **negi** » 01 Oct 2013 23:58

Basically between TOI and Chindu we choose to be Chindu , hainji ? Bahut redtape hai baap. What about private message feature it's not that there are lot of females or women here whom we wish to hit upon.

Lilo · Post by **Lilo** » 02 Oct 2013 00:01

Suraj wrote:Gus, nachiket: There was a reason for not permitting free emails, and the reason for that has not gone away. Both the lack of free/web email IDs for forum registration, as well as the use of real sounding names, was meant to make the forum presence personal, as opposed to generating member count and turnover via use-and-dispose registrations. Both those remain something we try to maintain.

I didn't claim that the problem of unique internet access has disappeared, but it is MUCH better today than it was a decade ago, when such access was essentially impossible to many because internet access was just not sufficiently ubiquitous, nor financially accessible to. It will only get better, not worse, and therefore it makes little sense to revisit an approach that first enabled the forum to have a more focused and personal involvement from its participants.

Changing rules because users are unaware that when they have a data plan they also have a usable email, or some other superfluous reason, is not really tenable. I first tried to register in 2000, but my registration was denied, first for using a free email, and a second time for reasons I don't recall. I lurked a couple of years before joining with my .edu ID of that time.

Suraj ji,
Unless you tell us the full reason - it will look to us like you are speaking from an ivory tower - nonfree mail ID requirement doesn't make any sense anymore.

I don't know what this "personal experience" thing is wrt non free mail id. Humans have the ability to distinguish a bot from a real poster 99 % of the time - and that one % can be stopped if they are not adding to the environment. I actually don't understand this logic of "personal experience" from non free email -at all.

Let me also stick out my head and say this,
My account was created using a free email.
I had to search for this .. I mean really .... It has to be a free email which was off the list of free email domains which brf had and had to be probably new enough too to not to be on the list yet.
Finally zeroed onto (back in 2007) some nondescript domain called bluebottle.com which if back in 2007 was punched in Google search would come on some 13 th page or something.

Why should people have to go to that headache just to register at brf ?

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 02 Oct 2013 00:04

DFI ain't TOIlet, BR ain't chindu and neither are we in a fight.

why don't you make a list janab ? of what changes can be brought ?

@Lilo, the reason is given in my post.

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 02 Oct 2013 00:07

Suraj wrote: Changing rules because users are unaware that when they have a data plan they also have a usable email, or some other superfluous reason, is not really tenable.

Suraj, it is not superfluous. Does getting a data plan automatically give you a ISP email id? Maybe in the US. I doubt Airtel and Vodafone are doing that in India.

I first tried to register in 2000, but my registration was denied, first for using a free email, and a second time for reasons I don't recall. I lurked a couple of years before joining with my .edu ID of that time.

Another problem in India. Universities don't give edu IDs to all students. In your case that would have meant you'd have to wait even longer to join BRF had you been in India.

Anyway, I don't want to push this further.