BR Forum Feedback

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 02 Oct 2013 00:10

true, I had to wait near 5 years till I got a res.in email ID.

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 02 Oct 2013 00:12

BTW, Mahul_R, glad to see you back in action as well.

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 02 Oct 2013 00:15

as well as old hands coming back.

Nah .. at worse for set period (shudders at the train wreck that was ....)

We do not want to be like the politicians holding on to their thrones

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 02 Oct 2013 00:17

PMs are disabled as a means of managing server storage space and bandwidth (remember, this site is hosted using someone else's money), as well as to prevent users tagteaming using it instead of posting on the forum. Of course, they may use other ways to communicate.

As Rahul says, members attempting to create multiple sock puppet accounts is something we've faced and had to address. Most of this happens behind the scenes and the average poster simply is not aware of what happened. This isn't just something restricted to some 50-center - some of those who did so were actually quite well regarded posters at that time, but were since removed for their actions.

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 02 Oct 2013 00:18

Welcome back doc

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 02 Oct 2013 00:18

some how, at EoD it appears the world is like eye-for-an-eye.
hope the next day brings new hopes.

hakim sahib ko jai ho!

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 02 Oct 2013 00:19

Surya wrote:
as well as old hands coming back.

Nah .. at worse for set period (shudders at the train wreck that was ....)

We do not want to be like the politicians holding on to their thrones

more like vidyaranya !

----------
thx nachiket.

Sagar G · Post by **Sagar G** » 02 Oct 2013 00:19

Hainji bhwaat is this Shiv saar does an Advani here

Now since Shiv saar you have made the effort to post here so please get back to regular participation as well.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 02 Oct 2013 00:22

let us use the modi mantra:
same law, same people, same constitution, same breapers, same everything ...

we can make the difference.

ps:
btw, not sure about the recent ordinance though

negi · Post by **negi** » 02 Oct 2013 00:25

SaiK wrote: hakim sahib ko jai ho!

Ko nahin sir Ki.

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 02 Oct 2013 00:26

Lilo: what I posted previously is the 'real reason' - we want posters to have a real sounding name, not something like, say, 'Topgun123'. We also want them to have a real email address to register with.

Thanks for mentioning that you circumvented forum rules by finding a domain outside of BR's own registration filter. Please don't complain if some other moderator bans you for it

Personally I've no desire to act against you. Yes, some like you attempt to circumvent rules for your own reasons, and attempt to justify it after the fact.

But we make a judgement call whether to act against a poster on the basis of whether or not they've otherwise been a good contributor. The same 'ivory tower' you describe us as standing on, is the one from which we choose to look away at your indiscretion.

johneeG · Post by **johneeG** » 02 Oct 2013 00:28

shiv wrote:I left BRF in May 2013 out of boredom. All the news on BRF can easily be accessed simply by looking at IDRW or one of the defence blogs. I felt and still feel that I can make serious contributions to various topics but felt strangulated by BRF's fossilization and sclerosis. There is no more space on BRF for serious original contribution as used to be the case before BRM died.

BRF - which is still following many of the policies I encouraged, supported and enforced as administrator in an earlier era of the internet, is now the longest example of tunnel vision and inward thinking among internet fora. The internet has grown by leaps and bounds since BRF policies were set down. After leaving BRF I joined two other fora and although I was initially lost and it took some time for me to find my way about I found them an eye opening experience. The fora I am talking about are Defence forum India (DFI) which I joined when I discovered RayC there and Indiansforguns (IFG) which is a separate interest for me.

Shiv saar,

nice hear from you. Didn't know you were posting on DFI.
You migrated from BRF to DFI and I migrated from DFI to BRF. So, our cases are mirror opposites. Actually, I haven't migrated. I gradually stopped posting at DFI(almost without realizing it) and found BRF more suitable to my taste. It may have been a simply because I had already spent some time at DFI and BRF was kind of new to me.

shiv wrote: On the forum home pages of BRF, DFI and IFG the statistics tell a story. See the membership stats and the number of people who lurk.

DFI: There are currently 1127 users online. 77 members and 1050 guests
Most users ever online was 40,083, 12-03-12 at 06:33 AM.
Threads 42,755 Posts 770,333 Members 12,300

IFG: In total there were 2173 users online :: 95 registered, 7 hidden, 7 bots and 2064 guests (based on users active today) Most users ever online was 4178 on Mon 19. Nov 2012
Total posts 174453 • Total topics 15023 • Total members 10249

BRF: In total there are 149 users online :: 25 registered, 16 hidden and 108 guests (based on users active over the past 5 minutes)
Most users ever online was 575 on 28 Nov 2008 15:19
Total posts 998947 | Total topics 1866 | Total members 4942
These figures are a huge drop for BRF from its heydays when it ranked respectably among the top visited sites in the world. It need not get back there - but I think BRF could do better because it is dying. A has been.

It is dying because of outdated policies. Who pays for email any more? And how many people really have work email ids who will use it to join this forum when they can simply join any other active forum on earth.

+108. So very true. I never understood why there was a need for an email. I actually couldn't join BRF due to that policy for a long time. And when I did register, I was banned because that particular email was later classified as free-email. And I imagine that many other such potential members would also have been lost to forum. Thankfully for me, RahulM saar happened to visit DFI and I was at DFI. So I requested him to help me join BRF and he did. So, I am here on BRF thanks to RahulM saar.

I really really wish that this policy is reviewed and removed. Even people who enthusiastically follow the forum cannot register due to this kind of policy. And I think this policy is the chief reason for what you term as 'BRF is a comfortable and cosy club of members who have got in and stayed in'

Remove this email policy and forum will become very vibrant.

shiv wrote: I have kept an eye on BRF from time to time - more because I was familiar with its layout. Today, just after logging in I went and checked the Strat Forum. Exactly one new thread has been started since I went offline in May 2013 - and that is the Kenya mall shooting thread. Nothing else is new. The world goes past BRF but BRF does not really notice. It is a comfortable and cosy club of members who have got in and stayed in.

One major defect that I felt with DFI was a new thread for every news item. Every news article had its own thread. It seemed to me that this defeated any indepth discussion on any topic. It was more like a general lounge where one catch up with the latest news around the world. BRF in contrast with its policy of dedicated threads for each topic gave a chance for more indepth discussions on various topics. This policy, I think, encourages the posters to go beyond the latest news headline and debate and understand a topic.

So, I am a big fan of this particular policy of BRF. In fact, if I remember correctly, I had stated this on DFI also. But, the admins there were not interested in such a policy. I think they were interested in larger membership. And that policy worked for them. It is the same policy that is followed in Deaf & Dumb forum also.

BRF allows a more indepth discussion with its dedicated threads. For example, OIT thread or Baki thread is a good example of advantages of dedicated threads. The same info may also be available at other places on net. But they are disparate and not put at one place. With a dedicated thread, all info is put at one place and discussed.

Since the posts made by the posters stay for much longer, the posters are likely to make more serious posts instead of mere time-pass comments.

Having said that, there is a point after which even a good policy becomes silly and worse idiotic. While it is good to have dedicated threads for each topic, that should not mean that starting new threads(specially on valid topics) is strictly prohibited. For example, there was no new thread on Uttarakhand disaster. Many posters complained about it. Many posters requested for a new thread. Yet, it never came. I can't understand why. Those posters were told to post in a generic thread about natural disasters! Really!! Such a big disaster and it does not even deserve a new thread?!! So, that is a good example of how a good policy can degenerate into a disastrous one.

Incidentally, it is also the reason for more threads in GDF compared to other forums. It seems to me that new threads are dealt more leniently by mods in GDF than other foras. In fact, there may have been instances when new threads in other foras were shifted to GDF. Thats why, there are more threads in GDF compared to other forums.

Also, I don't understand why there is a need to take permission before starting a new thread or why new threads are not encouraged(if the thread is on a new topic that is not covered by other threads or on a new angle on old topic). If the new thread is not good enough, it will die its own death. Why close it explicitly? What is all this 'IB4TL' and all that?

Someone opened a shaving thread in GDF and it was closed. Why? If no one was going to post there, it will die itself. The point is even if a new thread is silly, why close it? If it is silly, well it will die. Why the need for so much policing and moderation?

shiv wrote: One of the reasons I left BRF was the absolute degeneration of the military forum from a well informed discussion board to an argumentative political forum. I have not bothered even looking at what was my favourite forum until today and I note that nothing worthy of a new thread has occurred in the military scene in the world since May 2013. The same old threads. And the same people of course. No valuable new contributors. I have missed nothing.

I personally don't like discouraging of discussion on politics. Because I consider that politics is the root of all other issues and not discussing politics(and ideologies) is really a big minus.

I admit that there has been some leniency and mods & admins have allowed some discussion on politics and ideologies in recent past. But, it seems to me that there is still much room for improvement.

shiv wrote: Then I looked at the forum that grew like a cancer while I was active on BRF. I was personally opposed to a secret forum - which I think is a very silly idea. Not sure why the secrecy is required - the discussions that go on there happen everywhere else quite openly. And that secret forum has grown in leaps and bounds. The membership of BRF has not expanded much, but it is a small private club - out of public view - like a place to change sanitary napkins and powder one's face. If that forum is popular it should be public. Why restrict it to a small club of people selected carefully from an elite club who have special email ids?

I kinda disagree with you on foreign members. Foreign(i.e. non-indian) members may add their perspective. But, I think a dedicated forum with Indian members has its own advantages. And I consider this as one of the advantages of BRF. Of course, theoretically, BRF is open to all nationalities.

But the fact that BRF is mostly made up of Indians which allows certain kind of discussions to take place. It can act like a thinktank. It can explore ideas that are generally not possible on other places perhaps.

shiv wrote: No forum is easy to administer and I have had a chance to observe administration on DFI and IFG. The total number of admins does not seem to be much higher, but policing is much lower causing thread proliferation, arguments and open disagreements. But the information is all there. There are people from all over the world - who add detail that BRF can never get with its "small town private club" attitude that is a hangover from the small internet of the 1997 to 2002 period.

DFI had some very innovative ideas on administering and moderating forum. I was impressed by such innovative ideas. Of course, it the mod/admin team there has its own quirks and drawbacks(some of which I was very vocal on that very forum itself).

But the positives about the moderating on DFI is it allows free speech a lot more than BRF. The admins and mods are, generally(but not always), more lenient, accommodating and civil. That allows the forum to be more vibrant.

When I was at DFI, the forum had banned the ban. That means there was no permanent ban. What they did was instead did not allow offending poster to post for a particular timeperiod(a kind of cooling off period). I think its a good policy. One need not mimic the exact policy, but one can take the gist of it i.e. 'permanent ban' should be a last resort. And many other measures can be taken to moderated and police the forum.

johneeG wrote:
SaiK wrote: point blank discussion on banning the ban activity by breapers. they could have ban per thread under violation rather banning from BR itself. It is not a nice social engineering to ban esteemed posters who had stepped some live wire, or crossed yellow sea inadvertently.
Good idea. Banning someone from posting in a particular thread(s) would be more than enough. If needed they could be stopped from creating new threads. I have never been fan of permanent bans. Ensuring that the posters cut down on a particular aspect, which is seen as negative, is enough.

Everyone has 'positives' and 'negatives'...

Link to post

On second thoughts, I think banning the ban is also not a good idea(because, there are trolls in the world whose aim is to discourage any meaningful discussion. Such trolls have to be banned). What should be done is to keep 'permanent ban' as a last resort(like a nuke option) that is used very rarely(or on hopeless cases).

On BRF, it seems to me that mods are much more trigger happy. Many a times, the victim posters may not even be the guilty party. They may just be at the wrong place at wrong time. Many a times admins and mods don't even follow the three-warning policy and simply ban posters on their first perceived mistake. Now such actions are alright if they are done in exceptional cases. But, in general, they should not be the norm.

Also mods or admins rudely telling members that they will be 'kicked out' of the forum if they question the mods/admins is very distasteful. It looks like an extra-ordinary display of power corruption. When mods/admins of simple net forums act in this way, then what wonder that people act in real world(in actual powerful positions) also act like jerks? Many a times, same message can be given in a polite and civil manner without getting rude.

johneeG wrote:If anyone checks the poster history, one will clearly see that this is a pattern of always trying to guide the discussion by making these off-topic and totally irrelevant side insinuations based on AIT/AMT/Lemuria/North-vs-South.

He is not just attacking Hindhuism, but also trying to sow seeds of North against South. I expected such posts(a series of posts across various threads and most of which are out of context and off-topic without any source) would have earned him atleast a warning if not a ban. Because I had seen that other posters were banned for much less.

Then, I realized that most of the time posters get banned or warned only when they are very explicit(like Ashok Gottipatti) or foolish(i.e. straight-forward) or dumb(i.e. naive) or just unlucky. But clever trolls can get away. And Theo is certainly clever.

Link to post

Talking of the mods and admins, it seems to me that policing on BRF is too draconian and is reluctant to take any feedback. Any critical feedback (of mods or admins) that is provided by the members is deleted. When the members persist in criticism, they are rudely told to find some other forum. Even the most minor criticism is met in this manner. It seems Admins and Mods think that any admitting of any mistake on their part lowers them and so they will not accept their wrong even if they made a mistake.

It is natural for people to make mistakes, whether they are posters, or admins or mods. But, if they use their power to stifle people from pointing out the mistakes than it is counterproductive. The exception in this case has been Ramana garu. I have seen him apologize on occasions to members.

shiv wrote: Every time admins changed on BRF we got fresh blood and fresh ideas. There is no focus. No new ideas. No new policies. Admins need to rotate and retire. Ramana needs to bow out and rediscover the joys and sorrows of being an ordinary Abdul. He has made a career out of being a forum admin on BRF but it has been a decade since he last wrote an original article worth reading which he used to do once upon a time. Clearly originality, new thinking and an ability to guide the forum to new heights are not required for the post of lifetime admin. He is part of BRF's sclerotic thinking, in my view, and the only non founding admin of BR who has clung on desperately to his lifetime post.

I have been following BRF from 2007(I think but not sure). And I agree with you that there should be rotation of Admins and Mods. I agree with you that thats the best way to keep the forum vibrant. After all, yatha raja, thatha praja.

I think the ideal time period for a typical mod/admin should be around 2/3 years. After that a new rotation.

But there should also be some figures who are more permanent to provide stability. Stability by the permanent ones and vibrancy by the new blood would be the right policy, IMHO. I think Ramana garu is suitable for providing stability. From what I have experienced on internet forums(I have been in quite a few such forums), Ramana garu is a very good admin. He is not rude, he is widely knowledgeable and can guide many young posters. And he does so without embarrassing others. He is also not overbearing. And he is rather lenient and generally not very trigger happy (about banning members). And he has his heart in right place, that is has his moral compass intact(of course, thats my personal view). In short, a very ideal mod/admin.

shiv wrote: Some friends requested me to get back on BRF. I have nothing against BRF as such but it has just ceased to be stimulating and there is much out there that can be learned and experienced by opening up and removing encrusted gunk. New people with free email ids and any names they want to choose should be allowed in and let members, thoughts and threads proliferate. If they are not Indian, so what? BRFites should be able to handle some heat. And its not always heat in any case. BRF has already lost its pre eminence, but still retains a few valuable thinking members. I am sure BRF can regain a respectable position - but not with its ossified thinking and membership policy where those who are in are so comfortable with each other that nothing new happens. No one seems to have the stimulus to start a new thread with a new line of thinking or a new take on something - except on the hidden hijab forum - where people talk to a carefully selected and bred BRFite audience.

Yep, make BRF more easy to register. I completely agree with that. Not necessarily with foreign members. I am not against the foreign members either. Its just that I don't think there is a need to pursue foreign ones specifically. In DFI's case, there seems to be some amount of pursuance and special treatment for phoren members, just so that the forum could boast of having international members. That need not be the case. So, BRF need not follow that approach.

As for GDF remaining hidden, I don't think thats a big issue. If GDF remains hidden so be it. As long as, the email policy is corrected and it becomes easier for people to register and as long as new thread on legitimate topics are not shutdown(in open forums), having a hidden GDF forum would not be any hindrance. It can serve its own purpose.

The problem right now seems to be that the mods/admins decide what should be on visible forum and what should be on hidden forum. I think a better approach is to allow the thread starter to decide them and to allow new threads on visible forums also. If the thread is out of place in a forum, then such a thread should be shifted out to its relevant forum. If such policies are followed, I think keeping GDF hidden would not be a big issue. Right now, many major issues are only discussed in GDF.

shiv wrote: Stimulation and growth comes from handling the challeneges of different thoughts and opinions and BRF policies are aimed at stopping that and retaining status quo. BRF is committing soosai. Not nice, but it need not be that way.

Yep, less policing. It is not even as if more policing is necessarily effective policing. For example, many a times there is very poor policing that means a troll and those who reply to troll(because the troll was not reprimanded by the mods/admins) are bundled together and giving the same treatment. RajeshA saar had such an experience when he replied to a consistent 50cent troll in Chini thread. After that, RajeshA saar has not been posting on BRF.

Most important thing is to take the feedback of the members instead of shutting out the criticism.

Shiv, I hope you'll start posting again in OIT thread from now onwards.

----
Ravig saar,
1 week ka break lo, refresh ho jao and come back to forum. What is all this quitting and all that, hain ji?

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 02 Oct 2013 00:56

there are many things we can automate for breaper communities.. a button to negative ratings.. a thumbs down.. once the count reaches a set configurable limit, the post automatically gets soft deleted.

now we are talking about creating communities!

a bojitive bunch might want to keep the posts, and equal it out. so we need two new buttons.

Manish_Sharma · Post by **Manish_Sharma** » 02 Oct 2013 01:03

In military forum we have Rohitvats, Vivek Ahuja, Karan M as new generation posters making very very informed posts, with of course old timers like Vina, GD & Tsarkar also there. For next gen Jayant Jamwal, Ravi_G are getting trained. I challenge anyone to produce a single post on shiv ji's stated forums making a post equalling in quality to these posters in military matters.

We still have the best poster of Strategic forums SSridhar contributing marvellously. While on Strategic forums Rudradev, Atri, Brihaspati and many others are making very very eye opening posts, maybe only IF is there which produces quality posts equalling these.

If we see attitude of moderators then definitely they are much much much more tolerant than days of Shiv ji or enqyoob's days. The way people's whole posts were deleted if not liked by them; those days are gone with old time moderators. I remember the tantrums of Ray_C when he used to accuse people of being communal, or Enqyoob deleting whole posts.

Where did Ray_C go after leaving BRF to - Porki def dumb forum.

Although I've been warned by Archan 3-4 times and banned once (all well deserved), once by rahul m too. I consider the attitude of current mods most fair I've seen in my life either on or offline.

Ramana ji comes across as a most accommodating person I've seen, probably never banned anyone as he probably wants to have every kind of poster contributing. Even when I didn't have a private email and used to be just a lurker I used to write to him my somewhat dumb questions about missiles on email (which i found accidently) and he used to answer always.

These outdated policies were the reason that Arun_S was made to leave the forum by Shiv ji. So what if somebody criticizes or misspells chidambaram's (BARC) name? Do you threaten the forum with lawsuit unless he is ousted? It was made into a private club by attitudes like this. While a person like vishnu som comes here threatens a member & makes statements like "its very insincere of IAF if they were not going to select f-16 then why they made the company bring the a/c to India and spend 25 millions for trials......". Shiv ji had later criticized posters for going after vishnu for this statement. CLEARLY IT WAS SHIV JI WHO WAS TREATING THIS FORUM AS A PRIVATE CLUB HAVING DIFFERENT PARAMETERS FOR DIFFERENT PEOPLE.

No I reject his claim about those forums being better than BRF, I read the guns forum myself on and off I don't think anything out there other than India-Forum can come close to BRF.

If gmail-yahoo identities are allowed, then first thing that comes to my own mind is "how easy it'll be to break forum rules and do gaali galauch etc...." but that's probably my mind.

I mean no fear of Archan warning/banning me for abusing certain people and ideologies etc. as having more than dozen email accounts I can afford to get banned many times a month.

Ironically the fall in standards maybe due to more availability of private emails for people. As someone like me with data entry operator upgraded to graphic designer level minds also start posting. I don't know what happens if gmail - yahoo are allowed, what will be ratio of people joining with likes of Arun_S - Rohitvats vs people like myself. Anyway my 5 paise.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 02 Oct 2013 01:12

It is important to have a feedback to any poster to retain him/herself a state-of-mind to return back. The reason I suggested the like button. And please invite back all banned members back to forum.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 02 Oct 2013 01:30

just to correct a factual misconception

shiv wrote: These figures are a huge drop for BRF from its heydays when it ranked respectably among the top visited sites in the world. It need not get back there - but I think BRF could do better because it is dying. A has been.

back in it's heyday. 2004 or thereabouts ?
here's a blast from the past
http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... ?f=7&t=174

Rakesh in 2004 wrote:Hello BRities,

Bharat Rakshak has been listed in the Top 100,000 websites by Alexa.com, which gives website rankings for the whole internet based on traffic. Way to go BR!!!! ?

and now
http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/bharat-ra ... afficstats

if you have a look you can see that twice in last year BR has been among the top 25k sites in the world. right now it is at
~ 43k, globally.

shiv ji, I agree with much of what you say but BR is hardly dying.

Lilo · Post by **Lilo** » 02 Oct 2013 01:40

Suraj wrote:Lilo: what I posted previously is the 'real reason' - we want posters to have a real sounding name, not something like, say, 'Topgun123'. We also want them to have a real email address to register with.

Thanks for mentioning that you circumvented forum rules by finding a domain outside of BR's own registration filter. Please don't complain if some other moderator bans you for it Personally I've no desire to act against you. Yes, some like you attempt to circumvent rules for your own reasons, and attempt to justify it after the fact.

But we make a judgement call whether to act against a poster on the basis of whether or not they've otherwise been a good contributor. The same 'ivory tower' you describe us as standing on, is the one from which we choose to look away at your indiscretion.

Ohh come on Suraj ji ,
You and Rahul ji treat us to be internet illiterate or some thing. Every one who has been on forums know about the sock puppet stuff - it might be a novelty thing when it was first attempted in IRC days - and later when BRF was set up in those days. Now every one is aware of such stuff including members themselves. Frankly speaking in discussions supposed to be done on logic sock puppets are of no use at all. They find use however in a noholds barred street squabble ish discussions one sees in forums like 4chan or something. And i never personally saw discussions in brf degenerate to such levels of animosity which require a sock puppet.

Infact if a poster is determined to have a sock puppet - even with paid email policy one cannot stop them - he will obtain another paid email Id to create the account.
Frankly how are all the forums else where managing with their free email policies while here you are still saying that mod load will be too much etc to manage sockpuppets. Rahul ji you can't contest that the post activity has to be higher than current (forget all the users online and Alexa eyeball metrics). There is much stuff which is getting unreported and undiscussed in BRF these days and we simply don't have the members posting enough to cover the gap. In this regard Shiv ji put it well.

And Suraj ji I didn't say that mods are on a an ivory tower - I made it well contingent to your explaining us the reasoning behind the email rule and It was specific to your answer. Lot of difference.

Also I don't mind going into Sanyas (forced - if it is what it takes to get me off BRF for me) if that is what is required to further uphold the email rule to a T if Admins/mods still prefer to vigorously stick to the current email policy at the end of the present discussion.
I will probably get back after some years in new avatar - at least to lurk if not contribute. So no issues there

Also mods are welcome to exercise their right to change my name to anything you prefer if you feel its a nonhuman sounding one - I don't have any attachment to it - that was why I chose a nondescript name.

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 02 Oct 2013 02:03

Lilo: thanks for making the case for why the non-free rule does not need to be changed. It acts as a filter forcing members to try to get into the forum, either by using a formal email, through a referral or - like you - circumventing it through obscurity. The effort is a good initial filter, and the barrier used to be much higher in the past. To paraphrase Groucho Marx "I can't be a member of a club that'll readily accept me as one"

Like any such filter, it's not perfect. That applies to you as well - if more people use your domain and the forum software adds it to the filter, you'll find yourself locked out. Having seen its utility both from a users and moderators perspective, it serves a useful purpose, and it's utility to us over the course of the forum's existence much outweighs the cons - which we certainly aren't ignorant about.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 02 Oct 2013 02:07

Just check during Oct - Nov 2012, we had very good rankings 20,000!!! that is like we have degraded on the same rate as INR FX rates over the last 6 months.

Any idea who used during those periods, what was the reason for that traffic? etc..?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 02 Oct 2013 02:08

Folks, Sorry to sound dictatorial but I do not want admins or admin policy discussed. It has evolved over a period. People are free to go where they want to.
Thanks for the feedback.
ramana

eklavya · Post by **eklavya** » 02 Oct 2013 02:34

Someone who say "there is nothing original on BRF ever since I left" must have read every post (since they left) to make such a grand, sweeping and quite ridiculously self-regarding statement. Says more about their over-inflated egos than anything about this forum.

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 02 Oct 2013 03:09

Says more about their over-inflated egos than anything about this forum.

It does not help with some people "pleading" for their favorite folk here to come back. Like in other walks we raise some on a pedestal.

disha · Post by **disha** » 02 Oct 2013 04:23

Gus wrote:
Suraj wrote:Today, most members probably have a smartphone, or some other means to access they internet exclusively, whether it be at work, home or mobile - all of these accord them an email ID that they can use to join this forum.
yes, but most people, especially indians in india, don't. they are happy with their free emails (gmail, yahoo etc) and they tend to use that in forums and the first snag they hit in registration, they lose interest and jump elsewhere...

+1. We need users from India who can freely share their views and view points.

disha · Post by **disha** » 02 Oct 2013 04:27

eklavya wrote:Someone who say "there is nothing original on BRF ever since I left" must have read every post (since they left) to make such a grand, sweeping and quite ridiculously self-regarding statement. Says more about their over-inflated egos than anything about this forum.

Are we so ossified that we are not able to take a post'ers valid points? Some of them could be sweeping and ridiculous., and some of them are very valid.

For eg. the sweeping changes in India (history is in making when even MMS speaks) is confined to a burqa thread. So a discussion on bringing it out in public is only fair. Also fair is a discussion to make that thread more productive. That is just one.

The other is the technological sweep that has taken over in the form of SM - twitter is one example. Can we not tweet a message into BRF or tweet a message out from BRF? Yes there are implications including legal around it. But a fair discussion will only help.

The thing about valid email - It is like a damocles sword. A simple hack into BRF and all those ids will be for the world to share or track. Right to their employer's doorstep. If the idea was to stop creating multiple ids or shoot and scoot poster's there are ways. Again only a valid discussion can help.

And while we are at it, do we still host on mysql where it connection times out repeatedly?

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 02 Oct 2013 04:43

disha wrote: And while we are at it, do we still host on mysql where it connection times out repeatedly?

That is because of the database backing up and it only happens once a day for a few minutes.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 02 Oct 2013 04:44

JohneeG

> After all, yatha raja, thatha praja.

It is more like yathA praja, tathA rAjA - forum members should self-moderate. How much can the admins do?

By the way, how hard would be to go to the type of moderation a la /.?

disha · Post by **disha** » 02 Oct 2013 04:44

Rahul M wrote:just to correct a factual misconception
shiv wrote: These figures are a huge drop for BRF from its heydays when it ranked respectably among the top visited sites in the world. It need not get back there - but I think BRF could do better because it is dying. A has been.
back in it's heyday. 2004 or thereabouts ?
here's a blast from the past
http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... ?f=7&t=174
Rakesh in 2004 wrote:Hello BRities,

Bharat Rakshak has been listed in the Top 100,000 websites by Alexa.com, which gives website rankings for the whole internet based on traffic. Way to go BR!!!! ?
and now
http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/bharat-ra ... afficstats

if you have a look you can see that twice in last year BR has been among the top 25k sites in the world. right now it is at
~ 43k, globally.

shiv ji, I agree with much of what you say but BR is hardly dying.

Same can be said about Blackberry, it beat Palm.

Rahulji, why not aim for the 10k slot and then to 5k slot and thence to 1k slot? If a group of motivated twitterattis can influence the conversation in MSM, with our indepth knowledge and analytical skills should be driving a change in that!

Do we desire that?

disha · Post by **disha** » 02 Oct 2013 04:46

matrimc wrote:JohneeG

> After all, yatha raja, thatha praja.

It is more like yathA praja, tathA rAjA - forum members should self-moderate. How much can the admins do?

Hey - that used to be my quote!!!!

If it has entered BRF lexicon - give me the credit!!!

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 02 Oct 2013 04:56

disha wrote:If it has entered BRF lexicon - give me the credit!!!

Not an original from me. I took it off of a quote (is it Bertrand Russell or GBS) "in a democracy, people deserve the government they get". Didn't know you were the originator

KJo · Post by **KJo** » 02 Oct 2013 05:09

NRao wrote:Shiv,

I thought in old age one slows down !!!! No?

By and large I agree with you.

Too much tilt, politics, lack of discussion, lack of looking at things from all angles, tinted glasses, etc, etc, etc.

NRao, I think I met you during the great days (2002-2003) when we used to have BRF Meets in downtown windy city.

KJo · Post by **KJo** » 02 Oct 2013 05:12

Rahul M wrote: I agree somewhat to shiv ji's point about email. whatever relaxation BR now has in email (referral etc) happened due to my incessant pestering. but it couldn't be taken all the way mainly because lack of manpower in mod ranks.

I would like to propose the names of Raja Bose and LalMohan as mods.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 02 Oct 2013 05:18

that would be like % by zero for all married and aged!.. but seriously, it should be fun with rbull and red mull breaping enterprise.

btw, i BRotest against NRao's age discriminatory statements!

pragnya · Post by **pragnya** » 02 Oct 2013 06:41

shiv avare,

i agree with you on the email policy - i myself was a victim of that. i remember writting to one of the posters here asking for help as part of 'referral' route that Rahul M alluded to - but the help did not come thro'. it was only much later that i, by sheer accident, discovered my ISP had an email for me!!! just as Nachiket pointed out many of us hardly know there is an email provided by the ISP!! i used it to get in.

what i do not agree with is the things you write about one of the 'other' forums. i was part of it - since i could not get into BRF due to the above. to be noted is one could not access the site unless one was logged in unlike here. atleast it was like that then. there are many people who may not want to be members/or post as one, but definitely want to go thro' the threads of their interest which means while BRF will be of help to them - being 'public', the one i was once part of did not allow that - meaning one had to become a member, made easy by the free email one could use, which explains part of the reasons to it's growth. besides post joining the forum, to my my utter dismay, i found even an 'inconsequential' news item is propped up as a new thread multiple times by different posters. it was irritating but ignoring that was the route i took. net, the statistics mean very little. out of the total threads you noted IMO major % would be those sort. besides i think the mods there keep useless posts and threads just for statistical purpose. however there were some good posters there when i was there and had a healthy relationship with them. hope they are still there as i have never logged in after i left.

i really don't know if the 'quality of discussion' here has come down or not but what i can say is BRF still stands taller than the rest.

johneeG wrote:You migrated from BRF to DFI and I migrated from DFI to BRF.

i see. so johneeG, you migrated earlier than me!!! agree with many points you make.

member_21074 · Post by **member_21074** » 02 Oct 2013 09:16

Hi,

Just wanted to share a suggestion, does BR has any plans to launch any mobile app?
I mainly surf BR through mobile, and it would be much better for reader like me to use some app (like quora app).

Thanks
Ani

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 02 Oct 2013 09:30

The problem with requiring an "official" email is that many don't like to give out work email to forums etc. I want to keep work and personal mails separate. And, one doesn't want to use the email given by the internet service provider because if you change providers, the emails will go away and it is a pain to change it everywhere. That is why free email providers like yahoo, hotmail, gmail etc are popular. People can use it irrespective of whether they change internet service providers or not. I hope the admins at least revisit this email policy.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 02 Oct 2013 09:45

Rahul M wrote: and now
http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/bharat-ra ... afficstats

if you have a look you can see that twice in last year BR has been among the top 25k sites in the world. right now it is at
~ 43k, globally.

shiv ji, I agree with much of what you say but BR is hardly dying.

Rahul you are mixing up BR with BRF. BRF is dying and it survives only because of old loyals who are still stuck here and the main site. Bharat Rakshak.com was and remains the most comprehensive one-stop shop for armed forces facts and figures.

Do you have Alexa figures for BRF? as opposed to BR the main site?

BRF was always secondary to the main site. the main site was built and maintained by a handful of people and nowadays I hardly see anyone asking what he can contribute as a forum member to the main site. No one is writing any articles that lead the way for people to discuss. No one is asking for articles. No one is bothered any more. It is all about time pass discussion. It is a forum yes. It is well known yes. But it is merely resting on past laurels and continuing past policies which I have myself advocated. Air marshal Philip Rajkumar was asking for something to be included on the BR main site and there are only a few who can do the dogs work which may mean scanning and typing. And a few still do that. The forum is the sidekick that shines in reflected light.

Policies like no free email , no thread proliferation, no pakis were all partly my responsibility/fault. Those policies were suitable for a bygone era of slow internet, low bandwidth, restricted server space. If storage space is short why have those insane archives? I mean look at the trash that we have stored up as archives. I have myself had ten thousand bouts of verbal diarrhoea that are now archived in the religion and other archives. Who needs that crap? Does anyone have any figures for who looks at the old rubbish that is of no use to anyone on earth?

DFI is huge and confusing. I do not want to compare but it does attract military professionals from interesting countries including the far east, France USA and other places and the information space is huge - like a supermarket. A man with verbal diarrhoea like me cannot easily throw his weight about and dominate as is possible in a small general store like BRF. Others get a chance to have their say. And more people can start threads and not be shouted down. In our anxiety to keep out Pakis (yes I was responsible in part) we have kept out people from every country on earth.

And nukkad and the Hijab forum? Why on earth is it hidden? BRF has become like IIT entrance exam. Only a small minority can get in by meeting special email requirements - and then they can log in to see what? The nukkad thread? and the love and marriage thread? Make that forum open and available for all to see. people who like the stuff in that forum will join. Maybe they don't like military stuff or stuffy strat discussions? Let them discuss non military stuff. BRF stopped being a military fourm long ago. What is being hidden in the hijab forum? And from whom?

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 02 Oct 2013 10:01

ramana wrote:Folks, Sorry to sound dictatorial but I do not want admins or admin policy discussed. It has evolved over a period. People are free to go where they want to.
Thanks for the feedback.
ramana

Admin policy having evolved over a period means admin policy cannot be changed easily. I am not talking of admin policy but admin tenure and the ability to let go of control and allow young blood to take over. Admins can change no? They can continue policy but bring in a less fossilized mindset. You are doing a Suresh Kalmadi to BRF. There is a such a thing as Admin propriety. Isn't it odd that the admin policy that has evolved since 1997 has no rules about change of admins? No one should be a permanent fixture.

eklavya · Post by **eklavya** » 02 Oct 2013 10:30

^^^^^
Why get focussed on the tenure of one admin? The focus should be on their actions as a collective decision making body. Focusing on one individual is wrong, and using cheap shot language like "Kalmadi" and "fossilised", is arguably just a display of a personal grouse / wounded ego.

If your agenda is about letting anyone and everyone post on BRF, then please make a case for that, rather than personally attacking a particular admin.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 02 Oct 2013 10:35

shiv ji, you know there was an effort to get SRR rolling again under the stewardship of n^3 ji. you and I both contributed articles to that.
seeing that you are not encumbered with any admin responsibilities now AFAIK, why don't you take up charge of resurrecting that ?

there are still quite a few folk, both old and new who are willing to contribute and do it well. best way forward IMHO.

meanwhile, discussions are on (even before this cycle of exchanges took place) regarding BRF policies. as you can understand I cant go into details, let's see what comes of that.

archan · Post by **archan** » 02 Oct 2013 11:22

KJoishy wrote:
Rahul M wrote: I agree somewhat to shiv ji's point about email. whatever relaxation BR now has in email (referral etc) happened due to my incessant pestering. but it couldn't be taken all the way mainly because lack of manpower in mod ranks.
I would like to propose the names of Raja Bose and LalMohan as mods.

In fact, some names are already in consideration and discussions going on for the past week or so. We hope to have some additions to our team soon.