J&K News and Discussion-2011

[chetak]

Chetak, can these be shared elsewhere on email? 16 Cavs response needs to be disseminated. Way too many people are buying into the media spin.

Be my guest, Karan M ji.

[nawabs]

KISHTWAR CAULDRON: The Struggle Against ISI's Ethnic Cleansing

By Maj Gen (Dr) G D Bakshi

This is an explosive and insightful account of Pakistan`s proxy War in J&K in general and the counter-Terrorist (CT) Operations in the grim and forbidding killing fields of Kishtwar, in particular. The author is most eminently qualified to write about these operations due to his extensive combat experience. He commanded a Company in CT operations in Punjab. He then commanded his battalion in fierce skirmishes on the LC in Kargil. He went on to command a Brigade in intense CT operations in Kishtwar and this book is the detailed account of those grim operations. He then moved on to command the Reputed Romeo Force Division in concerted CT operations in the volatile Rajouri & Punch districts of J&K. In between these tenures, the officer served in the prestigious Military Operations Directorate at Delhi. Thus he not only personally led these high risk operations in the field but also oversaw their planning at the apex level.

Few people would be better qualified than him to write about these grim struggles in J&K. He not only provides the doctrinal overview for these operations but goes on to give a blow by blow account of these campaigns and some of the debates and decision-dilemmas they generated. He highlights one very painful and largely blanked out aspect of these operations-the horrible ethnic cleansining of the Kashmiri Pandits from the valley and how it was blanked out from the media.

Subsequently, to stall talks of the Owen-Dixon Plan to partition Kashmir along the Chenab Valley, the ISI deliberately attempted another ethnic cleansing of the Dogras from Kishtwar. He recounts the grim struggle to protect the population from such genocidal attacks and the strenuous attempts made to prevent their large scale exodus to Himachal. It was a grim and very taxing struggle but the Indian Army succeeded at last in deterring such attacks. He questions the conspiracy of silence that did not permit us to publicise the genocidal actions of the ISI in J&K. Like the Serbs, they deserve to be tried for this ethnic cleansing.

The most valuable part of this book is the authors reflections on the lessons learnt. He raises a debate on some seminal issues. Should the Indian Army continue to treat Internal Security as a secondary task to be best avoided? The Chinese Army treats it as one of its tasks on par with conventional operations. He questions the British era principle of Minimal force in the context of the rising lethality of such operations and explores the new concept of Proportional Force. He takes a detailed look at the future and forecasts that the Demographic youth bulge could lead to a vast increase in Internal armed conflict in India. Maoism is just the trailor of this lethal conflict. The road ahead is grim and full of challenges. This book is a classic by a scholar warrior who was directly and intimately involved in these operations and is a must for not only the military professionals but equally the laymen alike. By turns racy and analytical, this is an unputdownable book on par with Frank Kitson`s Classic.

[Prem Kumar]

So the 'militants' got a taste of 125 MM

Not surprising, considering the photos showed dismembered pigs

[chetak]

‘Kashmiri politics is no longer about ideology, it’s all a money game’


This is a second post which exposes how money plays its part in Jammu and Kashmir politics. The previous post, a leaked Wikileaks cable, revealed how money is regularly being paid to political players in the state.

This post is aimed at those naive journalists/editors (or pretending to be naive) who are shocked at former Army Chief Gen VK Singh’s statement that Army paid certain ministers in J&K government to maintain stability in the state. The only surprising thing about his statement is that for the first time the admission has come from an official level and that too from a former Army Chief.

And our Honorable Home Minister wants to know the names of people whom the payments were made so that an inquiry can be made. So he wants to investigate the people who helped maintain stability in the state? Don’t know how this type of people end up at such sensitive positions in the Indian Government.

Read the cable sent to the US State Department by then US Ambassador to New Delhi David Mulford on April 7, 2006.

CONFIDENTIAL SECTION 01 OF 08 NEW DELHI 002365

SUBJECT: KASHMIRI SEPARATISTS LACK CLEAR AIM BUT TERRORISTS STILL TARGET DEMOCRACY

REF: ISLAMABAD 5767
NEW DELHI 00002365 001.2 OF 008

Classified By: A/Political Counselor Atul Keshap, reason 1.4(b,d)

1. (C) SUMMARY: Meetings in Srinagar with Kashmiri separatists reveal a group that lacks consensus and is divided by a leadership squabble over how to respond to Prime Minister Singh’s launch of a roundtable dialogue process. Most expect to boycott the PM’s planned May roundtable in J&K and are afraid the PM’s moves undercut them, while the Mirwaiz has announced the Hurriyat will host a rival roundtable composed of representatives from all five regions of J&K. Fear also stays the separatists’ hands. Terrorists continue to kill mainstream Kashmiri politicians, threaten separatists, and stir up mayhem in an effort to undermine the Indian democratic process before Legislative Assembly by-elections April 24. Mainstream political coalitions are also shifting, with the National Conference increasingly comfortable with Congress rule and the PDP increasingly paranoid. The police, meanwhile, are gearing up for spring snow melt and consequent increased terrorist infiltration even as they prepare for the by-election, the PM’s planned May roundtable, and an expected and impressive arrival of one million tourists and pilgrims this summer.

2. (C) Most Kashmiris recognize the harsh (for them) global reality following the President’s March visit, and while they now largely renounce violence as a means to an end and seek normalcy and prosperity, they have not yet figured out what to do next. As dialogue with Pakistan and Track II efforts continue, one separatist — Sajjad Lone — may covertly be fielding a candidate for a seat in the legislature. If he succeeds, at least one Hurriyat member will have dipped a toe into the waters of Indian democracy, and more may follow, vindicating India’s long-term policy of giving all peaceful Kashmiris a real say in their affairs, albeit within the parameters of India’s Constitution. Ultimately, the more real democracy the people of all five regions of Jammu and Kashmir enjoy, the more political space there will be for a soft landing, and the less space there will be for the terrorists. END SUMMARY.

LOOKING OUT FOR NUMBER ONE
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3. (C) A/PolCouns’ discussions in Srinagar April 3-5 revealed a moderate separatist faction divided by leadership competitions and unsure about responding to the Prime Minister’s dialogue offer and planned May roundtable in Srinagar. Shabir Shah is fence-sitting not out of conviction but because he cannot bear to defer to Mirwaiz Omar Farooq, whom he views as a young upstart. Yasin Malik continues his effort to outflank the Mirwaiz by engaging in courageous and provocative diplomacy with extremist and terrorist groups across the border to urge them to support dialogue (Ref A). In his own way, this is Yasin’s signal that he, too, does not accept the Mirwaiz as the group’s spokesman and primus inter pares.

4. (C) The Mirwaiz, in turn, meets regularly with Musharraf and makes news-grabbing statements at conferences to maintain his current privileged position. His current proposal, outlined April 6 upon his return from Pakistan, is for the Hurriyat to host a rival roundtable discussion with NEW DELHI 00002365 002.2 OF 008 representatives of all five region of J&K (Jammu, Kashmir, Ladakh, Gilgit, and Baltistan). Such an announcement, the Indian Express commented, was sure to “unsettle” the PM. Meanwhile, the Indian government further sowed dissension in the group by uplifting Sajjad Lone when it invited him to parley with the Prime Minister in Delhi. The net result is grumpiness and confusion even as India keeps ratcheting up the offers of dialogue. Shabir said consensus was impossible for now; the Jihad Council in Pakistan itself could not achieve consensus about dialogue with India, and Yasin and Mirwaiz remained at great odds with each other.

ISOLATE THE FENCE-SITTERS
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5. (C) Bilal Lone was brutal in dismissing Yasin Malik’s posturing against the Hurriyat, saying that Yasin should give up “a month of his Pakistani salary” to compensate the families of boys killed in Bilal’s home area by the army, instead of urging the parents not to take Indian compensation and jobs (as the Hurriyat had encouraged them to do). As for Shabir, Bilal said his massive ego does not permit him to subordinate himself to the younger Mirwaiz. Bilal was especially dismissive of extremist separatist SAS Geelani, whose Hizb-ul-Mujahedin henchmen he is convinced murdered his father, Bilal said Geelani continues to act on instructions from across the border to sow dissension and fear, along with violence and murder. All of them, urged Bilal, should be isolated by the United States for failing to show the principled courage of the Mirwaiz Hurriyat.

BUT AVOID GETTING MURDERED
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6. (C) Fears of sticking their necks out too far also haunt the separatists. Everyone we spoke to agreed the GOI security they all (including, amazingly, SAS Geelani, though not Malik) enjoy is a joke because even the police do not dare fire back when high-value VIP targets are attacked for fear of subsequent terrorist retribution; how else, they asked, could J&K state government minister Lone get killed in his secure house without even one security man firing one shot There had been 27 guarding him that morning, they emphasized. Moreover, in light of the Mirwaiz’ and Bilal and Sajjad Lone’s losses of immediate family members who went too far in exploring peace with India, everyone has learned the lesson: watch what you say and do or you might be sorry.

7. (C) Omar Abdullah said the Hurriyat was incapable of leadership because of fear. Bilal said extremists tell people the All Party Hurriyat Conference (APHC) are “agents of Satan” and urge crowds to chant, “To Hell with the dialogue process.” Such efforts foster an atmosphere of intimidation in which the moderate Hurriyat thinks carefully before each and every public utterance and decision. Sajjad said Yasin Malik still flirts with the dark side and could “kill people even now” with a word to the right (or wrong?) people. Shabir said, “Fear resides in our heads.” One separatist said he had just paid 30,000 Rupees (USD 750) after receiving a threatening demand for money. He said the money at least kept the threats at bay, but the fear limited the Hurriyat’s freedom of expression. COMMENT: This fear of death may explain why the Mirwaiz Hurriyat never responded to the PM’s plea for a detailed list of demands back in November NEW DELHI 00002365 003.2 OF 008 2005, despite repeated entreaties to table demands as a basis for continued dialogue. Instead, the Mirwaiz went to Pakistan, where he issued statements that echoed Musharraf, infuriating the Delhi security Mandarins. END COMMENT.

CARNAGE FOCUSES ON DEMOCRACY
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8. (C) A scan of the headlines reveals that terrorism continues unabated in Kashmir, and the target is clearly Indian democracy and the people who play within its rules. Over the course of three days this April, terrorists killed three politicians, including two municipal counselors and a political party leader. This is in addition to the continued almost-daily carnage of grenade blasts and shootings against police and army patrols, and marks a sinister turn in the violence. Even the traditional (male) dancers who entertain at political rallies are not immune; terrorists are killing them, too, for “collaboration.” The targeting of politicians as the by-election looms indicates the threat the terrorists see if mainstream Indian democratic processes continue to take root in Kashmir. All of our contacts — whether separatist, mainstream, journalists, or security forces — agreed the participation rate in elections is bound to climb, a trend that the terrorists clearly want to reverse. A long standing political section contact — Communist MLA Yousef Tarigami — lives in a virtual fortress these days because terrorists almost killed him when they killed J&K minister Lone, later killed Tarigami’s nephew, and have left no doubt in their threats to him that they find his secularism abhorrent. The conventional wisdom now is that the terrorists had tried to kill Tarigami, not/not Lone. Mainstream leaders like Mehbooba Mufti and Omar Abdullahalso receive “Z category” Indian security at all times despote their relative popularity.

AND A NEW INFILTRATION WORRY EMERGES
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9. (C) The new “get tough” Inspector General of Police, Rajender Kumar, told us that the J&K police’s usually excellent HUMINT had not detected some recent attacks in advance or traced the suspects through the usual channels. Kumar suspects that is because of an ingenious new terrorist tactic. The police and army have seen a surge in young men who appear at the LOC, turn in a rusty AK-47 or grenade, and insist they have surrendered. The army turns the returnees to the nearest local police station, which in turn essentially lets them go. Kumar said the system is idiotic because nobody releases these people into the custody of their parents of into a “halfway house” until the Indians can be reasonably certain that they have sincerely had a change of heart.

10. (C) Given that the alternative to “surrender” is infiltration that the Indians often detect (viz. the large battle in Gurez last summer to kill over 200 as they came across), Kumar thinks this new strategy is brilliant. He is convinced a terrorist cannot get all the way to the LOC without Pakistani knowledge because he has a devil of a time exfiltrating his HUMINT sources from that side without attracting their forces’ attention. As a result, he speculated, the “surrendered” returnees may have hit upon an ingenious way to walk into India and disappear, only to NEW DELHI 00002365 004.2 OF 008 attack again later. Kumar is working to rectify procedures for such surrenders. Meanwhile, he worries about the April 24 election, the PM’s planned May visit to J&K, the expected bumper crop of a million tourists and pilgrims this summer, and the on-going cat-and-mouse game between the police and the terrorists, especially after the snow melts.

11. (C) IGP Kumar’s assessment seemingly contradicts Yasin Malik’s claim to us April 7 upon his return from Islamabad that Pakistan’s Military Intelligence has closed the terrorist launch camps “to all the groups” and has permitted “zero infiltration” since the beginning of March; Josy Joseph of the new Mumbai newspaper “Daily News & Analysis” on March 30 wrote that “Pakistan has cut funding to the United Jihad Council and guides have been told not to assist infiltrations,” which Malik also told us. However, it is altogether possible that “surrender infiltration” has not been tabulated by Indian security agencies as traditional infiltration, and thus has escaped official reporting.

“INDIANS PLAYING GAMES”
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12. (C) As bad as the violence remains, Bilal also was dismissive of the Indian dialogue process, saying it is a sham composed of “paid agents” who attended the February session in Delhi. Also, by convoking J&K state residents and categorizing them as Paharis, Gujjars, Ladhakis, Hindus, etc, the GOI was practicing classic “divide and rule” strategy, he muttered. Bilal also complained that National Security Advisor Narayanan, whom he painted as the Svengali who orchestrates Delhi policy, was very dismissive of the Hurriyat and needed to “stop talking shit about us.” Narayanan, Shabir concurred, lacked imagination and did not take the Kashmiris’ aspirations seriously. Bilal said the Kashmiris should at least talk to Chief Minister Ghulam Nabi Azad, who has a direct political line to Sonia Gandhi, instead of a “cop” like Narayanan.

13. (C) Omar Abdullah balanced these views by saying the Hurriyat is incapable of dialogue due to its lack of a political base, its lack of experts who can delve into details, and its lack of a knowledge base. Omar said the PM had told him personally how disappointed he had been that the Hurriyat had never responded to his request for a list of demands.

14. (C) Regarding the PM’s roundtable process, Yasin Malik complained to us that the GOI publicly engaging such a large group of Kashmir stake-holders undercut the authority of the Hurriyat and other separatist leaders like himself. Diluting their status in the eyes of the rest of the separatist community, particularly the jihadist terrorist groups, would result in compromising his ability to “deliver” the jihadis to the table, or even to engage with them, if he is viewed by them as irrelevant, Malik continued. “There should be more behind-the-scenes work, not media events like in February and coming next month in Srinagar,” he added.

15. (C) GOI J&K expert NN Vohra affirmed that the separatists have yet to reach any consensus among themselves of what they want — autonomy, self-governance, “azadi” (freedom) — let alone what those terms mean, Vohra continued. When asked if the Hurriyat separatists could be mainstreamed, he emphasized NEW DELHI 00002365 005.2 OF 008 that “especially the ones under 40 see themselves as future ministers or Chief Ministers, are well-educated, and even if you disagree with what they say they are well-spoken and could easily enter politics.” First, however, pressure from Islamabad and the terrorist groups themselves must be lifted or nullified before the moderates could safely contest a vote.

ONE RAY OF SUNSHINE
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16. (C) Sajjad Lone, upbeat following his attendance of the Pugwash conference in Islamabad, was the only positive separatist voice we encountered. He said Musharraf is saying amazingly bold things lately, and the Pakistani mainstream was abandoning long-cherished sacred cows in the hope of finding a solution. Lots of good momentum was building, he felt, and Pakistan was taking big risks; it was neat to see National Conference leader Omar Abdullah treated “like a film star” instead of an Indian sellout. Sajjad thought the Hizb-ul-Mujahedin might just endorse dialogue with India, but the LeT/Hafez Saeed/foreign contingent of terrorists would never do so. Sajjad said he had told all he met in Pakistan that Kashmiris did not want to see even one more drop of blood spilled for the cause. Sajjad was also pumped about his meeting with the Prime Minister, explaining that the PM sincerely wants only the best for Pakistan and stiffens visibly when anyone berates Musharraf or Pakistan. Sajjad also opined that now that the PM has expanded the dialogue to include Kashmiri mainstream political parties, the APHC will eventually be obliged to contest the 2008 state elections in order to keep their influence. If not, “the process will leave individuals behind.” Sajjad also predicted 2008 turnout would be higher than in 2002, already a marked improvement over the election before.

AND EVEN THE VIOLENT ONES ARE MULLING DIALOGUE
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17. (C) Malik — who told us he met again with Hizb-ul-Mujahedin commander Salahuddin (Ref A) and with Lashkar-e-Tayyiba supremo Hafez Saeed during his recent one-month sojourn in Pakistan — said that although he continued to preach in favor of “the microphone over the gun,” “the (terrorist) groups will need the green light from Pakistan before they agree to anything like a cease-fire, which would be the first step to integrating them into the peace process. He suggested that “your people should lean on Musharraf” to clear the way for such a gesture; it would also require some ground work to move attitudes before Islamabad could politically sell a cease-fire, Malik concluded.

BUT THERE COULD BE A CATCH
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18. (C) Sajjad’s confidence may stem from the attention he has received from the PM and Musharraf, but PDP leader Mehbooba Mufti had a darker explanation. Mehbooba complained that the Congress-led government in J&K had reverted to its customary bad old ways in the build-up to the April 24 by-elections. The Intelligence Bureau, she alleged, had given Sajjad a crore of Rupees (10 million Rupees equal to USD 250,000) to support an independent candidate secretly affiliated with him who was going to run in one of the constituencies. If so, Sajjad’s happiness may stem in part NEW DELHI 00002365 006.2 OF 008 from tapping into new streams of Indian money.

CHURN IN MAINSTREAM PARTY POLITICS
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19. (C) Mehbooba, whose PDP party increasingly finds itself isolated as Congress and the National Conference look to each other to forge a coalition in 2008, is feeling isolated and vulnerable. She said the central government is terrifying people in PDP areas, acting more arrogantly than usual, and seeking to intimidate PDP supporters from voting on April 24. She said arrests in PDP areas were also up. Most importantly, Mehbooba felt that the GOI was going to use money to defeat PDP candidates and hand Congress and National Conference victories in the by-election. If so, she said, the GOI would have depleted the “bank account of goodwill” that her father, former Chief Minister Mufti Mohamed Sayeed, built up during his three year term of office.

20. (C) Mehbooba has a right to feel jilted. Her ostensible Congress coalition partner is openly courting the National Conference and she feels trapped. When we dined with Omar and Farooq Abdullah of National Conference, they seemed as content as could be, lending credence to reports of a budding Congress/NC alliance. Omar’s NC has also decided not to contest the election that Chief Minister Ghulam Nabi Azad will seek in Doda, a decision “Greater Kashmir” newspaper termed akin to giving the Chief Minister a “cakewalk.” We checked with Tarigami, however, who said he had seen no evidence of the activities Mehbooba reported. Moreover, Tarigami and others told us PDP had royally screwed up its candidates list by giving detested PDP Deputy Chief Minister Mustafa Beig’s nephew the party ticket in the seat vacated by Minister Lone’s murder instead of giving it to Lone’s son. Also, importantly, Azad made a clear statement on April 6 condemning any effort to interfere in the democratic process and threatened severe penalties to any state actor found to have subverted the process. NOTE: We will urge the Indians to avoid recidivism of any kind in this most crucial of areas, and will ask to view the April 24 polls to show our interest in clean elections. END NOTE.

SHOW ME THE MONEY
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21. (C) A recurring theme throughout all of our interactions with Kashmiris is how Indian and Pakistani money has made all Kashmiri political actors dependent on handouts. Omar and Farooq Abdullah, descendants of the Shaykh who first figured out Delhi’s money game, live in fabulous houses in Srinagar and Delhi, wear matching Panerai watches, serve Blue Label to the guests, and travel all over the world first class courtesy of the Indian government. Mirwaiz is alleged to have real estate in Dubai courtesy of Pakistan. The state administration gets rivers of money for development but the streets in J&K are appalling, even by Indian standards. Army officers, we have heard, allegedly bribe their superiors for postings to J&K to get their hands on the logistics contacts and “hearts and minds” money. Sajjad lamented that the conflict remained lucrative to many, and he is right. CPI(M) legislator Tarigami also told us too many people have a stake in the conflict’s perpetuation. Praveen Swami, reporting in “Frontline” revealed that a terrorist killed March 10 had 43 receipts for 18,000 Rupees (USD 450) each in “donations.” NEW DELHI 00002365 007.2 OF 008 Fifteen more had paid 48,000 Rupees (USD 1100) apiece. The money associated with the conflict clearly remains a collective disincentive to its resolution and should not be underestimated as a factor in decision-making across the board; according to Malik, “Kashmiri politics is no longer about ideology, it’s all a money game.”

INDO-PAK CONSIDERATIONS
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22. (C) Nobody we spoke to bothered to mention autonomy or troop withdrawal, leading us to conclude the rhetoric among the separatists regarding those demands is largely for public consumption because their realization is so remote. Certainly the latter remains a total non-starter for the Indians. What sparks the imagination more seems to be the ideas developed at Track II events such as Pugwash. Separatists and mainstream politicians like the regional approach to J&K problems, especially if it includes Baltistan, Gilgit, and Muzaffarabad/Sialkot. Sajjad said he hoped Kashmiri pessimism would not bury Pakistani and Indian optimism, and Shabir and Omar said the Pakistan-based separatists also needed to be wrapped into the dialogue process.

23, (C) Omar Abdullah said Musharraf was under pressure to show something soon, and if by December 2006, he predicted, the Indians did not give him anything to show for his risky gambits, Nawaz and Benazir would ratchet up the Kashmir-related election rhetoric to such an extent that he would have to return to the old anti-India formulas, and an opportunity would be lost. Kashmiris are very aware of the revolutionary changes in attitudes in Pakistan, and wary of the PM’s dialogue offer. We have counseled them to remain engaged in dialogue because we keep hearing — even from Kashmiris — that the PM is totally sincere, no matter what the IB or other security agencies in Delhi may conspire to achieve.

24. (C) GOI Interlocutor on J&K NN Vohra allowed that Pakistan President Musharraf faces “many domestic compulsions” and that Musharraf would have great difficulty maneuvering “the Kashmir issue” within his domestic constituents, notably the Pakistan Army. This is why, he continued, the GOI has held back from trying politically to “wound” Musharraf over the past two years; instead, Delhi knows it must work with Musharraf or risk Indo-Pak rapprochement irrevocably losing ground. Vohra said that, from his conversations with Kashmiris, he has learned that “They are fed up with a generation of violence, even the Kashmiri Muslims.” He pointed to two things he said he learned Kashmiris wanted while he observed the PM’s February 25 roundtable on J&K: there is no support for further splitting Kashmir (especially not along communal lines), and all groups attending sought an end to violence.

COMMENT: IT ALL BOILS DOWN TO MORE AND BETTER DEMOCRACY
——————————————— ———–
25. (C) Kashmir remains as muddled as ever. The separatists do not see a clear way forward, the mainstream power structure is in flux, and terrorism continues to blight the land. The GOI continues to make soothing dialogue noises even as it remains firm in its long-held positions. Mehbooba NEW DELHI 00002365 008.2 OF 008 is right that her father’s “Healing Touch” policy and greater respect for the ballot did much since 2002 to make Kashmir escape the upheavals of the past; the million tourists who plan to visit this summer are evidence of that, but the relative normalcy of Kashmiri politics is another. While 45 percent voted state-wide in 2002, the GOI must work hard to keep the April 24 by-elections clean if it wants to sustain that participation or even make it grow in 2008. Yet, it is encouraging that at least one Hurriyat separatist — Sajjad Lone — may be covertly fielding a candidate in the April by-election.

26. (C) After so many decades of mistrusting Kashmiris and denying them their democratic rights, Delhi remains on the right track in making sure Kashmiris express their wishes at the ballot, notwithstanding terrorists’ violent intimidation. We will work to view the April 24 polls in person so we can show Kashmiris and the Indian government how important continued exercises of real democracy are to defusing tension in Kashmir and giving the Kashmiri people a say in their governance. We will also continue to encourage the moderate separatists to talk to the Prime Minister. The more dialogue there is, the more room for both sides to maneuver, and with that room may come more willingness to compromise on difficult issues. In that sense, democracy for the people of all five regions on both sides of Jammu and Kashmir state is vital, no matter how badly terrorists seek to destroy it. END COMMENT

[chetak]

Why is India under attack?

BY RSN SINGH

Why is India under unremitting attack from Pakistan? Does the dispensation have the gumption to answer this straight question in any straight forward manner? In its answer lies the solution to proxy war being waged by Pakistan. It is not just ‘territory’, the honest answer would contain some ‘non-territorial’ reasons, politically dreadful and explosive.

Terrorists attacked an Armoured Unit in Samba in the morning of 26 September. The Second-in-Command (2IC) Lt Col Bikramjeet Singh was killed and the Commanding Officer Colonel Avin Uthaiya received bullet injuries. There was another attack on a police station at Kathua. At least twelve people were killed and four injured in the twin terror attacks. The usual suspect is the Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT), rather its latest ruse, Shohada Brigade. These attacks were in the region, located in proximity to the International Boundary (IB), not the least disputed. Simultaneously, from across the Line of Control (LoC) there was brazen infiltration bid in the Keran Sector by at least 30 Pakistan-based militants of which a dozen were eliminated by the Indian Army.

An Act of War!

The attack thus emanating from Pakistan’s soil addressed both the LoC and the IB. The simultaneity and the coordination of the attacks separated by hundreds of kilometers could not have taken place without the orchestration of the Pakistani dispensation. This constitutes an act of war!

The attack on the armoured unit is a perfect paradigm of “proxy war”. An armoured unit equipped with 45 tanks packs enormous amount of fire-power. It just took three militants to neutralize it, not on physical but strategic terms. It is seldom that in a conventional war, both the CO and 2IC become casualties. Imagine its ripple effect on the Indian Army. The attack unambiguously demonstrated that conventional military superiority bereft of resolute and patriotic leadership can be paralyzed by a sleazy adversary with cowardly reliance on irregular warfare as a matter of strategic faith.

Proxy war or sub-conventional war affords deniability to the perpetrator. Diplomatic visits and engagements serve tools for deniability and diplomatic reprieve to the perpetrator to perpetuate and calibrate ‘proxy war’. Pakistan has mastered this art and India, a country impoverished of strategic wisdom, has allowed itself to be a confounded victim. The cycle of terror and talks hence continues unabated.

Shamelessly, this time too, the discourse in the country, specially media ,was not on the strategic enormity of the attacks across IB and LoC, not on the sacrifices made by our security personnel, but on the poser ‘whether PM Manmohan Singh would or should meet his Pakistan counterpart Nawaz Sharif’. Remember this was no summit meet but on the sidelines of the UN General Assembly. They pretended as if the talks were an end in itself. They did not deem, like in past, and part of strategic script , talks would further fuel the proxy war being waged by Pakistan.

Negligible Peace Constituency

The decision-makers in India, complicit with incorrigible segment of commentators and media establishment were at pains to distinguish between ‘Nawaz Sharif’, the secular political and democratic ‘face of Pakistan’, and the military-intelligence establishment. They with great elan suggested that the two were at cross purposes. Nawaz Sharif, they maintained was part of the constituency desperate for peace. The latest attacks they construed were to derail the ‘peace process’. Nothing could be farther from truth. There is insignificant peace constituency left in Pakistan.

The support provided by the terror outfit ‘Lashkar-e-Jhangvi’ (LeJ) to Nawaz Sharif in the recent elections is common knowledge. It is also documented that Nawaz Sharif’s brother Shahbaz Sharif, the Chief Minister of Punjab, has provided Rs.61 million budget allocation to Hafiz Saeed in the current fiscal. The Punjab Govt also provided Rs.350 million grant-in-aid to ‘Markaz-e-Taiba’ of Hafiz Saeed’s Jamaat-ul-Dawa (JuD) for setting-up ‘Knowledge Park’. The JuD center, which was located at Murdike on outskirts of Lahore, was taken over by the Punjab government shortly after UN Security Council designated JuD a front of the LeT in the wake of Mumbai attacks. In fact, the police in Punjab let all the LeT leaders escape arrest and only a year later the Shahbaz government approved a grant one million US dollars to LeT.

Imran Khan’s Tehreek-i-Insaf not only collaborated with jihadi elements in run-up to the elections but runs the government in Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa with Jamaat-e-Islami. The government has restored the violent jihadi content in the school text books in the province, which was removed by the Awami National Party (ANP), when it came to power in 2008.

The stark reality therefore in Pakistan is that apart from the military-establishment, nearly all mainstream political forces are in truck with the jihadi outfits.

In Pakistan, there could be internal differences between the political class and the military on power sharing, but there is near complete unanimity with regard to jihad and its anti-India objectives. Nawaz Sharif, therefore talking to Indian Prime Minister will always prove to be a regressive affair as far as India’s resolve and capability to tailor the response to proxy war is concerned. Such meetings are meant to manipulate and undermine the meaning and acts of war, something which the Indian political establishment completely, and the military establishment to great extent, have failed to discern. This can be ascribed primarily to the reason that India unlike Pakistan (since 1947) has never waged proxy war against any country, and therefore it does not realize its military, political ,diplomatic and most critically Intelligence, facets.

Jihadi Subversion of Universities

The Punjab province of Pakistan is now emerging as the new epicenter and base of Jihadis. Lahore, as per some reports, is now the hub of al Qaeda in the country. A communication center of the al Qaeda was busted in Lahore in August this year (read ‘Campus Terror’ by Khalid Ahmed, Indian Express, 27 September 2013). This center operating in the name of ‘International Technical Hub’ was receiving signals from Afghanistan. At least, half a dozen terrorists including women were arrested.

The Arab funded International Islamic University, Islamabad is the key the ideological nerve-center of global jihad. In fact the father of ‘global jihad’ and the mentor of Osama bin Laden , the Palestinian, Abdullah Azam taught in this university. The universities in Pakistan, as per Khalid Ahmed, are under complete sway of Islamic Jamaat Taliba (IJT), the student wing of JeI. The Lahore University of Engineering and Technology, where Hafiz Saeed served as a lecturer, is the most formidable stronghold of IJT. The Vice-Chancellor of Punjab University has lamented that the hostels in the university are infested with terrorists, but such is the influence of the IJT with the dispensation that nothing much can be done. Teachers betraying liberal outlook are routinely beaten up by the IJT cadres. The IJT and the JeI members have been providing shelter to al Qaeda elements.

It may be recalled that Sheikh Mohammad, one of the planners of 9/11, was arrested from women’s wing leader of JeI in Rawalpindi. Abu Zubayadah, a Saudi Arabian citizen belonging to the al Qaeda, was arrested in Faisalabad from a shelter given by Hafiz Saeed.

Together Hafiz Saeed’s JuD and the JeI command overwhelming influence on the youth of the country. All shades of jihadi organizations in Punjab, Taliban–Punjabi\non-Punjabis as per Mr Khalid,are sustained by Al-Zawahiri’s Arab money, and muscle and purse of JuD. Hafiz Saeed is known for his spiritual links to the founder of al Qaeda, Abdullah Azam.

India Has To Go Alone

The operational links between al Qaeda, ISI, LeT and Taliban is well established. Supposedly, the Mumbai 26\11 attack was undertaken by the LeT and its sponsors, only after a similar attack planned against Manhattan (including UN headquarters) was abandoned by al Qaeda because of the infiltration by CIA in the organisation. Was David Headley, therefore, responsible for shift of target from Manhattan to Mumbai? Headley after all, had infiltrated Al- Qaeda and later LeT and became its key operative. Having known the nuts and bolts of the LeT, why does the US soft -peddle on LeT and Hafiz Saeed? Is it because LeT was raised specifically to target India? The US never targeted LeT with drones or otherwise. There are some reports, which believe that there was a secret understanding between the US and Pakistan with regard to LeT.

There ‘global war against terrorism’ is therefore a fraud scripted by US which is evident from its support to al Qaeda affiliate Al Nusra in Syria. The bitter reality is that India will have to fight its jihadi rather proxy war all by itself. The much touted strategic partnership India and the US has only served the interests of the latter.

Punjab: New Global Jihad Epicenter

In a shift from Af-Pak region,the Punjab province of Pakistan is being nurtured by the jihadis of all hues as the base for the fresh jihad to be launched against the Afghan regime and its 3,50,000 strong new Afghan Army for takeover of Afghanistan. The province has been consciously chosen, as the Pashtuns in Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa and Waziristan continue to be in an imbalanced state and the men who constituted the mainstay in the war against Soviet Union and later in support of Taliban regime, have suffered considerable attrition. Punjab province therefore is the new recruiting ground and jihadi hub.

Al-Zawahiri, the present head of al Qaeda, as per some reports, is located in the Punjab province, somewhere in the outskirts of Lahore. The attack in shopping mall in Nairobi,in which nearly 72 people were killed and more than 175 injured, by Al-Shabab group,( affiliate of al Qaeda) and the attack in a Church in Peshawar (72 killed) carried similar signatures as the targets were specifically non-Muslims. There are many Pakistanis apart from Afghans, Iraqis, Yemenese as well as Europeans in the ranks of Al Shabab. The overall direction is provided by Al-Zawahri.

The audacity of attacks witnessed recently, as per some analysts, suggests a resurgent sense of triumphalism amongst the jihadi groups because of the envisaged withdrawal of the US troops from Afghanistan. The same sense of invincibility was palpable in the jihadi discourse following the withdrawal of Soviet troops from Afghanistan. The series of attacks across the LoC and the IB including the latest in Keran and Samba sector, the attempted ethnic cleansing in Kishtwar, the demand for dismantling the Village Development Committees therein by members in ruling dispensation to facilitate cleansing, the insidious attack on Technical Support Group and the IB, and the devious planting of motivated reports by a bureaucrat in an Indian newspaper, preposterously insinuating a former Army Chief’s designs to dislodge J&K government, appear to be facilitation measures for the Pak sponsored jihadi project in India, particularly Kashmir. Colluding in this Pak agenda are segments of Indian establishment and press.

As the new global jihadi hub in Punjab grows the heat will be increasingly felt in India. Habib-ur-Rehman, a commander of the LeT, in a meeting of commanders convened recently in Muzaffarabad, exhorted them to carry out attacks in small groups in J&K. The attack therefore in Samba was not an intelligence vacuum. The jihadi threat is not confined to J&K. In this very month, there have been intelligence alerts regarding 26/11 type attacks by LeJ in Delhi and terrorist attacks in Mumbai, and South India. It is the same LeJ which enjoys effusive patronage of Nawaz Sharif.

Entire India is the Target

Calls made from ten different states including Kerala, Andhra Pradesh and Maharashtra indicate the phenomenon of Indian jihadi volunteers being sent for training with Taliban and al Qaeda. The Popular Front of India (PFI), a South India based organization was reportedly formed at the behest of al Qaeda and LeT. Two years back, four trained PFI cadres were apprehended in Kupwara in J&K. Another Indian from Tamilnaidu Mohammad Niaz Abdul Rashid accused of creating a group for ‘armed jihad’ told his French interrogators that he was part of PFI and was in contact with jihadis in Pakistan. Intriguingly, the PFI is still not a proscribed organization in India.

The proxy war soldiers and facilitators in India are spread all over the country. The jihadi threat looms all over. No amount of reactive strategies can insulate the people of India from such proxy wars. We will continue to bleed. We may have become blasé or inured because of the incremental destruction and casualties due to the very nature of proxy war, but examined in the totality, the secured space in India is rapidly shrinking even as our precious resources are being increasingly and inexorably being sliced in the name of security, predominantly reactive in character. We have failed to impose any degree of cost and caution on the perpetrator. The proxy war has the ability to neutralize our entire conventional military apparatus. If not immediately bridled it has the potential cause the wreck and cause implosion of the Indian state.

Hit the Nerve Centers

The solution to win the proxy war is to hit the nerve centers. All respectable countries, concerned about security of its peoples and their interests do so. A Pakistani General during a television debate with this author in the wake of the attack in Samba sector was brazen enough to say that in the backdrop of the fact that Pakistan is a nuclear state, India has no option but to talk. This indeed is the dominant strategic discourse in Pakistan. It needs to be disabused. This author told the Pakistan General that nuclear weapons are a ‘reality’ and in deference to the ‘reality’, India accepts the challenge. Tomorrow, a Hafiz Saeed, armed with a Pakistani nuclear weapon, which is a great possibility, cannot bring India to its knees. In that case, India has enough means to ensure that last of such criminals within and outside the establishment are nuked.

Conclusion

And finally, even as we made indecent hype about Manmohan-Obama and Manmohan-Sharif meet, let us not forget that the CO and the 2IC of an armoured regiment took charge and led from the front in dealing with the proxy soldiers of Pakistan. The 2IC lost his life and the CO received bullet injuries to save the nation in the ultimate analysis. The CO, whom I know personally from the days when he was a young boy is the son of one Col M M Ravi, who was awarded the Vir Chakra in the 1971 war. A worthy son of a worthy father! Warriors therefore are not easy to create. The CO’s wife, this author has learnt, never left the company of the bereaved 2IC’s wife, even as her own husband was being evacuated for surgery of his bullet injuries. She is believed to have said that the 2IC’s wife needed her more than her husband. But for such men and women proxy war by Pakistan would have consumed the country. After all it did reach parliament.

All the votaries of ‘uninterrupted talks’ with Pakistan at all costs must reflect on the question as to why India is being targeted? No diplomat, no politician has the moral courage to answer this question officially and formally. They do it in very eloquently in private. It is this duplicity that is killing India. It is this duplicity which kills all initiatives in forging the nation’s resolve in fighting the proxy war.

(RSN Singh is a former military intelligence officer who later served in the Research & Analysis Wing. The author of two books: Asian Strategic and Military Perspective and Military Factor in Pakistan, he is also a Guest Blogger for Canary Trap)

[Murugan]

GAURAV C SAWANT ‏@gauravcsawant 6m
Pak resorts to intense firing in Karen sector to prevent soldiers from recovering bodies of slain terrorists/Pak armymen. 15 Pakis killed

[jamwal]

Paki army has occupied an Indian village Shala Bhat along LOC.
http://www.firstpost.com/india/exclusiv ... 47267.html

Even as Prime Minister Manmohan Singh met with Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif in New York, Indian troops were engaged in a murderous fight to clear Pakistani troops who have occupied a ghost village alone the Line of Control, highly placed military sources have told Firstpost. This is the first time since the 2001-2002 near-war that Pakistani troops have held territory across the Line of Control, and comes as a ceasefire declared after that conflict unravels. Fighting, the sources said, is still taking place in the village of Shala Bhata, where Pakistani irregulars and special forces personnel are using abandoned homes to fire on troops attempting to clear the area. Lieutenant-General Gurmeet Singh, commander of the Srinagar-based XV corps, said earlier this week twelve terrorists had been killed in the fighting — a statement that was misreported to have referred to a separate fidayeen strike on police and military installations in Samba. A spokesperson at army headquarters in New Delhi said he had no confirmation yet on Indian casualties. Map showing the village. “There’s no confirmation yet about who the infiltrators are”, a senior New Delhi-based military spokesperson said, “but some of the bodies we’ve recovered are wearing uniforms, which is suggestive. More important, the tactics and disciplined use of firepower by the infiltrators show they are likely special forces personnel, not just infiltrators.” The intrusion, the sources said, took place on the night of 23 September, taking advantage of gaps in patrolling which took place when troops of the 20 Kumaon regiment were handing over charge to the 3-3 Gurkha, during a routine rotation of troops. The intruders took cover in unoccupied observation posts overlooking a nullah, or village stream, as well as abandoned homes.

Read more at: http://www.firstpost.com/india/exclusiv ... ef_article

From same article

Pakistani troops last occupied positions on the Indian side of the Line of Control in July, 2002, taking Loonda Post— part of the same sector where fighting is now underway. India responded, on that occasion, by using eight Mirage 2000 aircraft to drop precision-guided bombs on to the four occupied bunkers. Following the air strike, troops supported by 155-millimetre howitzers retook the positions.

Really ?

[Pranav]

J&K: Pakistani troops occupy Indian village along the LoC, say sources

Read more at: http://ibnlive.in.com/news/jk-pakistani ... ef_article

[vishvak]

GAURAV C SAWANT ‏@gauravcsawant 6m
Pak resorts to intense firing in Karen sector to prevent soldiers from recovering bodies of slain terrorists/Pak armymen. 15 Pakis killed

Another terror hotspot right there.

[ramana]

Guys read that wikileaks cable again and again and one can see why these repeated terrorist attacks come from TSP.

Root cause is US meddling in that region with ties to TSP politicans, TSP Army, TSP terrorists, Kashmiri separatis, Kashmiri polticians, And finally GOI.
If you read the contacts and draw a mindmap you see that the US embassy in Delhi has contacts with all those people and one really doesnt knwo what they are telling them off the record.
One easy way to quieten this whole issue is to cut off US official access to atleast those within GOI sphere of influence.

[Sushupti]

Guys read that wikileaks cable again and again and one can see why these repeated terrorist attacks come from TSP.

Root cause is US meddling in that region with ties to TSP politicans, TSP Army, TSP terrorists, Kashmiri separatis, Kashmiri polticians, And finally GOI.
If you read the contacts and draw a mindmap you see that the US embassy in Delhi has contacts with all those people and one really doesnt knwo what they are telling them off the record.
One easy way to quieten this whole issue is to cut off US official access to atleast those within GOI sphere of influence.

Their man is sitting in the chair of PM. what you want to do Sir?

[RoyG]

GAURAV C SAWANT ‏@gauravcsawant 6m
Pak resorts to intense firing in Karen sector to prevent soldiers from recovering bodies of slain terrorists/Pak armymen. 15 Pakis killed

Another terror hotspot right there.

Only 15? What happened to the other half?

[Karan M]

Wow, speaks volumes for the readiness of the armored corps units plus and explains the footage of those T-72s rolling down the road...

err whsat footage?

link pls

TIA

Not online I guess.. but there was footage on several channels of T-72/s + soldiers moving down a road in the IA base..

[Arun_J]

TOI Breaking News Ticker - "Heavy firing in Srinagar, terrorists attack cops with Grenades"

[Prem Kumar]

Yes Jamwal - the Mirage 2000 incident didnt receive wide publicity - possibly due to directions from the highest level as well.

In the latest op, there isnt much info and the CO is doing the right thing by clamping down on the leaks. Given our history with Barkha Dutt style sensationalism taking the lives of armymen & civilians alike, its a prudent strategy

However, given our current political establishment, it will be too much to expect 155mm or Mirage action in the latest standoff. If anything, there will be pressure on the CO to claim that there were no SSGs amongst the infiltrators. If he disobeys, his reputation will be tarnished.

I will be interested to read how Praveen Swami spins this - is it a grandmother, herb collector or is it going to be a Bollywood movie watcher this time?

[RoyG]

Another attack in Srinagar. Bloody b@stards will keep coming especially with the Congress crumbling. We are completely paralyzed to deal with this threat proactively.

[RoyG]

Pak 'special troops' involved in massive infiltration bid, fierce gunfight on

Rajat Pandit, TNN | Oct 2, 2013, 11.29 PM IST

NEW DELHI: In what is proving to be the biggest infiltration bid across the Line of Control (LoC) in recent years, the Army has been battling a determined and well-entrenched group of 35-40 militants and Pakistani 'special troops' in Keran sector of Kupwara district of J&K for the last nine days.

The Army, which has pressed additional forces, helicopters and spy drones into action, claims to have killed 15 of the intruders after cordoning off the Shala Bhata area in the Keran sector once the "first contact was made" at about 8pm on September 24. Five Indian soldiers have also been wounded in the fierce gun-battle.

Ironically, the skirmish was in full swing when PM Manmohan Singh met his Pakistani counterpart Nawaz Sharif in New York last Sunday to discuss measures to reduce tensions along the 778-km-long LoC. There has been a definite surge in infiltration attempts and militancy in J&K this year, along with as many as 150 ceasefire violations by Pakistan being recorded since January, 2013.

The Army, however, was quick to dismiss as "absurd" that it was "a mini-Kargil like situation" or that three to four Indian posts along the LoC had been "occupied" for the first time since the 1999 conflict due to the laxity by Indian troops.

The force also denied having passed off a 70-year-old man as " a dreaded militant" after killing him in the region. "The militant was aged between 40 and 45 years. An AK-47 rifle was recovered from him," said the Srinagar-based 15 Corps commander, Lt-General Gurmeet Singh, on Wednesday.

But it cannot be denied that the ongoing operation in the thickly-forested, high-altitude Shala Bhata area along the Kishanganga river, which overlooks a strategically-located Pakistani road network, has certainly taken the Army leadership by surprise.

The intruders have exhibited "an unusual resolve" to stand their ground and not, as is the norm, scurry back across the LoC after being intercepted. "It's a do-or-die style operation by the well-entrenched intruders around 300-metre inside Indian territory," said a source.

Besides, reconnaissance missions and radio intercepts have shown that attempts were being made to "set up supply and logistics lines" to the infiltrators from across the LoC, much like what is done for "regular" troops.

"Infiltrators try to sneak across in small groups of 8-10 each. This is a much larger group. The firing has taken place along a frontage of 4-5km with 'contact' being established in at least four places," said an officer.

Lt-Gen Gurmeet Singh did admit that an "analysis" of the situation showed the involvement of "a border action team (BAT)", a mix of Pakistani Army regulars and militants from Jaish-e-Mohammed, Lashkar-e-Taiba, Al Badr and Hizbul Mujahideen.

"From the operation that is going on till now and the strength (of infiltrators) and the multiple points they attempted (to infiltrate), give the indication that definitely there were some special troops. This is quite different from the trend we have seen in the earlier infiltration attempts," said Lt-Gen Singh.

The Pakistani Army is known to keep a hawk-eye on the LoC, and quickly steps in to take advantage of any laxity shown by Indian soldiers. The "BAT-cum-infiltration bid" in the Keran sector came during the changeover of battalions, just after the 20 Kumaon regiment had handed over charge to the 3/3 Gorkha Rifles. "It was the first day of the Gorkhas there," said a source.

Even during the killing of five Indian soldiers in the Poonch sector in early August, the 14 Maratha Light Infantry was being inducted to replace the 21 Bihar Regiment when cross-border raid by another BAT took place. "The unit being posted out become slightly complacent during the changeover of battalions, while the one replacing it takes time to become familiar with the area," said an officer.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 423931.cms

This is a Kargil light operation. They carefully chose the timing and location to test our political resolve against the backdrop of the mms-sharif meeting (it's clear that we have none). Expect many more of these operations.

[Sushupti]

Is she again giving troops position to her "South Asian" friends?

[member_22872]

But it cannot be denied that the ongoing operation in the thickly-forested, high-altitude Shala Bhata area along the Kishanganga river, which overlooks a strategically-located Pakistani road network, has certainly taken the Army leadership by surprise.

I don't understand, if it is strategically located Paki road network, you already know it's importance, then why surprised? unless ofcourse you are off to the loo and you are 'surprised' because you didn't expect anyone there, but some intruders showed up and disturbed your focus.

And too many times you get surprised? then that is not surprise anymore...you have become callous. We didn't learn our lessons...too bad.

[Karan M]

Thing is we cannot defend every nook and cranny on the Indian side, its simply untenable, thanks to the costs - human and material involved. What would prevent such incursions etc is the realization amongst PA troops that India would retaliate heavily. That is deterrence and it simply does not exist as things stand today, hence PA gets its folks to behead our soldiers, do such incursions etc. Earlier, we had given them enough hard knocks that they sat still for a while. Now, in order to keep the pretence of a ceasefire going, keep talks with NS going on, and prevent the resumption of a full blown terror campaign in India (as versus strengthening internal orgs and not wasting them on political hit jobs), this sort of "limited response" stuff is the norm on the border. Which means there is no deterrence really. We don't even threaten conflict and only say talk is the only option.

[Prem Kumar]

Cant wait for the day when we will have Helina armed drones. Armed drones are a nice intermediate step in the escalation path, where you have a defensible position against allegations of having used air-force in own territory. Will prevent a lot of casualties.

[negi]

^ What good will they do sire when ghungroo wearing PM won't allow you to use them ? And the IA looks like is more busy leaking letters and selectively giving press interviews to save someone's a$$ and earn some afsar a posh retirement job and land.

[Prem]

Time for Uncle to lease few AC-130 Gunships straight from Afghan theater.

[Dipanker]

Why does it take 9+ days to dispatch all the intruders to hell? Just drop some heavy bombs, finish the job in couple of hours.

[Cosmo_R]

Time for Uncle to lease few AC-130 Gunships straight from Afghan theater.

And a few predators/reapers to test unkil's resolve?

[putnanja]

If it is an uninhabitated village, why don't they just flatten it using heavy artillery and RPGs. Why bother to engage them in long drawn gun fight?

There is more to it than meets the eye. Plus the fact that it occurred on Sept 24th when our PM was in US, and scheduled to meet NS. Looks like the PA is sending a message both to India and to NS asserting who is in charge.

[Yagnasri]

NS is also involved just like Kargil. Army now has top brass who has no guts to use even required force to repel invaders. Are we now promoting politicos in uniform as generals? I am shocked to see the general of IA saying that he can not give time line. If you can not do the job even after 10 days then time to place you or send u face firings squad. Pity we don't shoot failed generals. Time to start may be.

[putnanja]

The army shouldn't be blamed for not giving a timeline. Do we know if there are any orders from the PMO not to use heavy artillery/gunships/aircraft to not "escalate tensions" soon after meeting with NS? Is the army fighting with one hand tied behind its back? If the army is not allowed to use all weapons at its disposal to get rid of the pigs, how can we blame the army?

[vishvak]

Should not the army reveal cross border terror logistics that support rabid dogs thrown across? This should be made official and not hidden under excuses.

[putnanja]

Should not the army reveal cross border terror logistics that support rabid dogs thrown across? This should be made official and not hidden under excuses.

There appears to be a media blackout. Looks like the GoI has realized that the previous publicized attacks by PA on IA soldiers wasn't very conducive to the "peace talks" with the "long lost brother ", so they appear to have passed strict orders to not reveal anything much happening on the LoC/IB.

There has hardly been any news items on what happened on the border today. Is the operation over? how many killed? how many escaped? what is the status? Nothing in any major news site. Media blackout in force!

[member_22872]

I understand TSP's eagerness to have the talks, but what is forcing us to the talks that too when our own soldiers are being killed, under a media blackout and land grabs? seems very much like we are being made to do it under pressure. Now who is GUBOing? Or is it free will under too much dosage of 'Aman ki Asha'?

[Supratik]

I understand TSP's eagerness to have the talks, but what is forcing us to the talks that too when our own soldiers are being killed, under a media blackout and land grabs? seems very much like we are being made to do it under pressure. Now who is GUBOing? Or is it free will under too much dosage of 'Aman ki Asha'?

Uncle and uncle-pasand PM wants us to talk that is why we are talking.

[Prem Kumar]

In the world of Manmohan Singh, talks serve a dual purpose:

a) Talks are an "end" in itself (as in "we must always keep talking") when Pakistan perfidy is at its highest & most visible (26/11). This is the seat-warmer talk variety

b) Talks are a "means to the end" when things seem normal and MMS feels the climate is conducive to give away Siachen or Sir Creek. The "end" is Unkil appeasement & his place in history

[Karan M]

The IA Gen on tv a day or so back, was literally shouting down people attempting to ask him questions. A huge difference from the manner in which these press responses are usually handled. Clearly under pressure not to let media perception of this issue hurt the current pak-pasand GOI.

[Karan M]

Cant wait for the day when we will have Helina armed drones. Armed drones are a nice intermediate step in the escalation path, where you have a defensible position against allegations of having used air-force in own territory. Will prevent a lot of casualties.

They'll send people across with Stingers and that's those drones being of limited use. The issue is not merely of technology, though that would be a force multiplier but political will. If we keep doing such stuff to Pakistan, they would come to their senses. Or hurt them in other ways. Instead, we shackle the Army, force it to fight under restrictive ROE, and then promptly scamper over to talk so that our Pak pasand PM can feel good about himself

[negi]

We don't need any new equipment or technology per se; a pair is what is all we need. Retaliation has to be swift and heavy it needn't be at the site of infiltration onlee , we should choose to hurt them where they can get hurt the most make them bleed profusely for every such misadventure and they would think twice before even thinking about violating a cease-fire.

[Sunilchurchill]

All that is needed is to send the Aman Ki Asha types... Mani Aiyer, etc need to share chai biskoot with the non state actors from across the LOC..

[Aditya_V]

All that is needed is to send the Aman Ki Asha types... Mani Aiyer, etc need to share chai biskoot with the non state actors from across the LOC..

They can all go and say"WAR-Chod Na Yaar" and the pakis will become good.

[Supratik]

We don't need any new equipment or technology per se; a pair is what is all we need. Retaliation has to be swift and heavy it needn't be at the site of infiltration onlee , we should choose to hurt them where they can get hurt the most make them bleed profusely for every such misadventure and they would think twice before even thinking about violating a cease-fire.

Thats what we used to say 15 yrs ago on BRF but then we ended up old and with high BP. It is not going to happen till we overcome the fear of Uncle.

[habal]

you can't overcome fear unless you engage, deter and then defeat the fear. We have already taken first step post 9/11, then partially into second step. There are stages between second and third step which require a lot of determination, which I believe UPA, which is a comfort-oriented soft setup doesn't have.