J&K News and Discussion-2011

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negi
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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Post by negi »

Supratik wrote:
negi wrote:We don't need any new equipment or technology per se; a pair is what is all we need. Retaliation has to be swift and heavy it needn't be at the site of infiltration onlee , we should choose to hurt them where they can get hurt the most make them bleed profusely for every such misadventure and they would think twice before even thinking about violating a cease-fire.

Thats what we used to say 15 yrs ago on BRF but then we ended up old and with high BP. It is not going to happen till we overcome the fear of Uncle.
:mrgreen: Sir ye to andar ki baat hai. :rotfl:
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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Post by CRamS »

Did anyone watch Arnab's show last night. I usually stay away from his shouting tripe, but I last night I watched because the erudite Kanwal Sibal, Maroof Raza etc were there. But as usual, Arnab to show off his so called "neutrality" or whatever invites the filthiest of filthiest Pakis, Peer Zada or whatever.

Man, you can talk to a donkey but you can't talk to that moron. Not that you can talk to any Paki, but thats a different mater. But basically he said, these "incidents" will continue until the "core issue" is resolved. In other words, as many pigLets as we kill, it is not going to deter them from trying again, and thats exactly what he said while conceding that this latest attempt has failed.

But he also sent a chilling warning that this is not 1971, and dared Indian army to cross LoC. None of the Indian panelists challenged him on that. And successive Indian govts may have appeased TSP in varying degrees, but in common, no Indian govt indeed crossed the LoC. This seems to be a dead give away to TSP.

Because TSP knows India will not cross LoC, they keep pushing the button. I need a more substantive understanding of how India can change this status quo and make TSP pay a price without the usual army is ready to do it, but whoever is in power in Delhi won't allow it.

At some point, this nonsense has to stop, TSP making a bold attempt to push pigLeTs into the valley, India summoning resources to push back, the usual verbal spat, and the cycle repeats. Even if India dare not cross LoC as Peerzada claims, surely India army top brass need to find some other formula to deter TSP. What is that?
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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Post by ramana »

India will cross the IB and has done it twice.
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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Post by anupmisra »

ramana wrote:India will cross the IB and has done it twice.
Twice, officially.
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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Post by Supratik »

habal wrote:you can't overcome fear unless you engage, deter and then defeat the fear. We have already taken first step post 9/11, then partially into second step. There are stages between second and third step which require a lot of determination, which I believe UPA, which is a comfort-oriented soft setup doesn't have.

Yes, you have to be militarily and economically in a position to overcome fear of Uncle. At least part of the Indian establishment wants to even under present situation. But they don't have political signal. So it will also depend on political leadership. "Dehati aurat" was complaining to BO about Pak intrusion saying "saar, saar". While IG did the unthinkable when India was 10 times weaker. PVNR was shrewd and we had the Karachi operation. Vajpayee swung like a pendulum from one end to other. But ultimately, Uncle is the primary deterrent.
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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Post by ramana »

SB Chavan said same thing in lok sabha after 1993 Mumbai blasts.
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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Post by KrishnaK »

Uncle has nothing to do with this. They took it just as bad, in fact worse, from the Pakis in Afghanistan. Not just them, but every nation that lost troops. It isn't the fear of uncle, it's the fear of letting the situation go out of control. That is Pakistan's primary threat: pointing a gun to it's own head. Nobody's willing to accept that dare.
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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Post by Supratik »

KrishnaK wrote:Uncle has nothing to do with this. They took it just as bad, in fact worse, from the Pakis in Afghanistan. Not just them, but every nation that lost troops. It isn't the fear of uncle, it's the fear of letting the situation go out of control. That is Pakistan's primary threat: pointing a gun to it's own head. Nobody's willing to accept that dare.

You are living in la-la land my friend. Taliban was a product of joint US-Pak efforts. So they got shafted by their own creation. But that has nothing to do with US policy towards India. The primary motivation for US is to preserve the status quo viz India-Pak, preserve Pak as a state and to pressurize India for the same. The Indian establishment hasn't forgotten the nuclear threat in 1971. Otherwise they would have acted during the Khalistan movement itself and IG had "balls". The establishment knows the shortcomings and have moved to bridge the gaps. At somepoint you will have to do a cost-benefit analysis viz-a-viz Pak. Whether to keep getting hit under the ruse of "situation going out of control". Or doing something about it. The Soviet Union had 10-20000 nuclear weapons. That didn't stop the cold war becoz the alternative was a collapse of western democracies.
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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Post by Prasad »

So there has been pretty intense fighting on the border but I don't see any high level media coverage beyond 'fighting chalu hai' type of news. Anyone?
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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Post by KrishnaK »

Supratik wrote:You are living in la-la land my friend. Taliban was a product of joint US-Pak efforts. So they got shafted by their own creation. But that has nothing to do with US policy towards India. The primary motivation for US is to preserve the status quo viz India-Pak, preserve Pak as a state and to pressurize India for the same.
Pure speculation. They might have acted against our interests but have nowhere shown a consistent policy of constraining India. India manages to do well on that account all by herself.
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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Post by nachiket »

KrishnaK wrote:Pure speculation. They might have acted against our interests but have nowhere shown a consistent policy of constraining India. India manages to do well on that account all by herself.
I guess all the military freebies to pakistan is also "pure speculation" then.
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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Post by member_23692 »

nachiket wrote:
KrishnaK wrote:Pure speculation. They might have acted against our interests but have nowhere shown a consistent policy of constraining India. India manages to do well on that account all by herself.
I guess all the military freebies to pakistan is also "pure speculation" then.

Despite US paying extortion money to the Pakis (yes, it is now considered by most circles in Washington as extortion and bribe money, only the fading residual very old guard in the US establishment has any semblance of genuine sympathy left for the Pakis), or because US has to pay extortion money to the Pakis, the Americans will like nothing better, I repeat, nothing better, than to see India administer a real and painful kick in the rear to the Pakis. In fact, I suspect, it will make their day.

The fact is that successive Governments of India have hollowed out the capabilities of the Indian armed forces due to their single minded attention to corruption and enriching themselves and keeping themselves in power. These governments have created systems which have paralyzed the Indian arms procurements, thereby rendering useless the capabilities of the Indian army. Every time there is a provocation which requires a tight slap on the face of the PAkis, the Indian government and the armed forces have no capability to respond. But they cant quite admit that, can they ? You think anyone in the government or the army will come out and say, "oh, we cannot respond, because we have been too corrupt and hollowed out our capabilities as a result". Of course not. So, they have to come with some other narrative. What is that other alternate narrative ? It is "The US has been holding us back. We can take on the Chinese and the Pakis, but we are not capable to taking on Uncle. Give us another 30 years of 10% growth and we will then be able to take on anyone and then we will hit back the Pakis". Never mind the fact, that by then these guys(the corrupt) have completed looted India and its people and the Pakis and the Chinese will be transgressing our border which by that time will be located somewhere between present day Maharashtra and Karnataka.

So those of us who buy into and emotionally invest ourselves in this concept of "democracy" are the same people, who have invested ourselves in the concept that if only Uncle would not hold us back, we will show those Pakis. How idiotic does that sound ?
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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Post by Dipanker »

rsangram wrote:
Despite US paying extortion money to the Pakis (yes, it is now considered by most circles in Washington as extortion and bribe money, only the fading residual very old guard in the US establishment has any semblance of genuine sympathy left for the Pakis), or because US has to pay extortion money to the Pakis, the Americans will like nothing better, I repeat, nothing better, than to see India administer a real and painful kick in the rear to the Pakis. In fact, I suspect, it will make their day.

The fact is that successive Governments of India have hollowed out the capabilities of the Indian armed forces due to their single minded attention to corruption and enriching themselves and keeping themselves in power. These governments have created systems which have paralyzed the Indian arms procurements, thereby rendering useless the capabilities of the Indian army. Every time there is a provocation which requires a tight slap on the face of the PAkis, the Indian government and the armed forces have no capability to respond. But they cant quite admit that, can they ? You think anyone in the government or the army will come out and say, "oh, we cannot respond, because we have been too corrupt and hollowed out our capabilities as a result". Of course not. So, they have to come with some other narrative. What is that other alternate narrative ? It is "The US has been holding us back. We can take on the Chinese and the Pakis, but we are not capable to taking on Uncle. Give us another 30 years of 10% growth and we will then be able to take on anyone and then we will hit back the Pakis". Never mind the fact, that by then these guys(the corrupt) have completed looted India and its people and the Pakis and the Chinese will be transgressing our border which by that time will be located somewhere between present day Maharashtra and Karnataka.

So those of us who buy into and emotionally invest ourselves in this concept of "democracy" are the same people, who have invested ourselves in the concept that if only Uncle would not hold us back, we will show those Pakis. How idiotic does that sound ?
Compared to Pakistan's $5 billion/yr miltary expenditure, India spends about $40 billion/yr. There is no comparision between military strength of India and Pakistan, India is much stronger than Pakistan. All military experts will tell you that.

Military strength is not the reason for India's restrained response, you are barking on the wrong tree in this case, it is basically about cost and benefit, and managing the conflict at a lower scale is simply more cost effective way of handling it.

Does not mean when the Paki will escalate, we won't, but Paki can't afford to escalate. In any case we pretty much kill most of the Paki PigLets of all hues right there near the fence, and the rest are hunted down.
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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Post by brihaspati »

Dipanker ji,
do you think there is any point in discussing current status of the J&K and related Paki situation at all? I mean everything is under the control, isn't it? Whatever the Indian state is doing is for the best, and even if we do not necessarily understand or see transparently - we should assume that in this game Pakis are going to lose eventually at some finite time point in the future.

Should we propose actually closing down such threads and only make this discussion historical? I mean we can only discuss the current context 50 or say 100 years from now when we would be deemed trustable enough to share historical reality with [if of course the peculiar habit of important files going missing at a steady rate changes by that time]. That is when we should be able to justify whatever new facts then come to light about the present and show that whatever steps were taken were inevitable and the Indian gov had no alternatives and choices, if in case the Paki losing didn't happen and some Indians still existed as Indians, to discuss history of J&K and Indo-Pak relations at that stage.

This is how the "Kashmir" issue has always been presented to the Indian public isn't it? We now more or less have the facts on how ground realities were suppressed in even informing the then legislature or the nation at large, how individual likes/dislikes/fears/megalomanias of few individual leaders affected military policy and setting of objectives to the long term detriment of Indian interests. In fact a simple completion or further push of the "boundary" to the west would have locked out later Chinese and other shenanigans. Those asinine decisions could onlee be taken based on the pushing of an image of infallibility and implicit correctness of whatever key leaders do, and choose or not choose to represent to us.

This painting of "everything is alright" - and "we will and are taking the right decisions" - posturing has not changed from those times.

When protecting the image of a body in authority becomes more important than taking the right decisions - as is increasingly being shown in practice - any number of things can and will go wrong and will be sought to be covered up. This leads to further damages and by the time things come to light, there is not much left to do for correction - and justifications begin getting constructed. "There were no alternatives".
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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Post by member_23692 »

brihaspati wrote:Dipanker ji,
do you think there is any point in discussing current status of the J&K and related Paki situation at all? I mean everything is under the control, isn't it? Whatever the Indian state is doing is for the best, and even if we do not necessarily understand or see transparently - we should assume that in this game Pakis are going to lose eventually at some finite time point in the future.

Should we propose actually closing down such threads and only make this discussion historical? I mean we can only discuss the current context 50 or say 100 years from now when we would be deemed trustable enough to share historical reality with [if of course the peculiar habit of important files going missing at a steady rate changes by that time]. That is when we should be able to justify whatever new facts then come to light about the present and show that whatever steps were taken were inevitable and the Indian gov had no alternatives and choices, if in case the Paki losing didn't happen and some Indians still existed as Indians, to discuss history of J&K and Indo-Pak relations at that stage.

This is how the "Kashmir" issue has always been presented to the Indian public isn't it? We now more or less have the facts on how ground realities were suppressed in even informing the then legislature or the nation at large, how individual likes/dislikes/fears/megalomanias of few individual leaders affected military policy and setting of objectives to the long term detriment of Indian interests. In fact a simple completion or further push of the "boundary" to the west would have locked out later Chinese and other shenanigans. Those asinine decisions could onlee be taken based on the pushing of an image of infallibility and implicit correctness of whatever key leaders do, and choose or not choose to represent to us.

This painting of "everything is alright" - and "we will and are taking the right decisions" - posturing has not changed from those times.

When protecting the image of a body in authority becomes more important than taking the right decisions - as is increasingly being shown in practice - any number of things can and will go wrong and will be sought to be covered up. This leads to further damages and by the time things come to light, there is not much left to do for correction - and justifications begin getting constructed. "There were no alternatives".
You are making a lot of sense, in fact too much sense. So much sense that you will never get anywhere within the current Indian ruling dispensation. If you were in any decision making power, the ruling dispensation will first try to marginalize you and failing that, finish you off. And that would not be the worst. The worst would be that all the fine and upright "good people", the general populace of India, lead by the Indian media (who are nothing but the henchmen of the ruling establishment in India now) will not only standby, but cheer your demise.

Human nature never changes. Athens did the same to Socrates and ever since, the philosophers and sages, who dared to speak the truth have been consistently "halalled" in history.
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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Post by member_23692 »

Dipanker wrote: Compared to Pakistan's $5 billion/yr miltary expenditure, India spends about $40 billion/yr. There is no comparision between military strength of India and Pakistan, India is much stronger than Pakistan. All military experts will tell you that.
I am surprised I have to point out the following on this forum.

1. It is not about the amount of money spent. That is like the 29th on the list of factors and variables that make for a win. And I would presume, you would agree, the ultimate aim is to win and win means achieving whatever our strategic and tactical objectives are. If we define our strategic and tactical objectives as a) re-uniting the subcontinent in the long run, b) keeping our territory that we do control in the present, free of foreign attacks of any kind, be they be conventional or non-conventional and if there is an attack, the response is so severe that the enemy is deterred for quite some time, c) protecting the lives of our citizens and particularly of our heros in the armed forces who face the brunt of these attacks and d) respond strongly to any internal trouble makers and threats to the integrity of our country, we have failed in all the above objectives. What good is spending 40 billion ? We might as well not spend anything.

2. You see, if you never have to show results, then you can spend $ 4 and convince yourself and others that you are stronger than others. Why waste $ 40 billion then ?

3. History is replete with thousands of examples of when the underdog, the outnumbered, the outspent, the outsized have defeated the stronger enemy. What percentage of US defense budget was Vietnam spending ? Taliban ? Paki ? They all defeated the US. How cum ? By all measures, India is in an enormously worst position than the US in terms of its morale, economics, will, soundness of the political system, resolve of its citizens to defend themselves and their territory etc. Besides, look at the facts and recent history on the ground and also the present. We are losing to all our neighbors, Paki, Chinese, BanglaDesh, Sri Lanka, even Maldives. In fact, we lose to them everyday.
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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Post by Dipanker »

rsangram wrote: I am surprised I have to point out the following on this forum.
1. It is not about the amount of money spent.
That is like the 29th on the list of factors and variables that make for a win
.

Can't agree with that at all. 29th? Are you serious? I would rank it right at the top.
And I would presume, you would agree, the ultimate aim is to win and win means achieving whatever our strategic and tactical objectives are.
We have currently two enemies, against Pakis, we have always won and I don't see how we can lose against them, we are too big for them. China is different ball game and we have a lot of catch up to do, but this is not the right thread. Let us focus on Paki bashing!
If we define our strategic and tactical objectives as a) re-uniting the subcontinent in the long run, b) keeping our territory that we do control in the present, free of foreign attacks of any kind, be they be conventional or non-conventional and if there is an attack, the response is so severe that the enemy is deterred for quite some time, c) protecting the lives of our citizens and particularly of our heros in the armed forces who face the brunt of these attacks and d) respond strongly to any internal trouble makers and threats to the integrity of our country, we have failed in all the above objectives. What good is spending 40 billion ? We might as well not spend anything.
To say that we have failed in all objectives is not correct. We may not have done 100% but overall I would have say we have done o.k..
2. You see, if you never have to show results, then you can spend $ 4 and convince yourself and others that you are stronger than others. Why waste $ 40 billion then ?
You would agree that it keeps Paki and China from completely over running us. Plus we get to kill Paki Piglets near the fence and hunt the rest of them
3. History is replete with thousands of examples of when the underdog, the outnumbered, the outspent, the outsized have defeated the stronger enemy. What percentage of US defense budget was Vietnam spending ? Taliban ? Paki ? They all defeated the US. How cum ?
Again can't agree with you at all, this is not a Vietnam war thread but the Vietcong/PAVN did not win a single battle, they actually got slaughtered in each and every battle.

Taliban, Paki, winning is news to me. Particularly the idea of Paki wining against US is laughable.

Besides, look at the facts and recent history on the ground and also the present. We are losing to all our neighbors, Paki, Chinese, BanglaDesh, Sri Lanka, even Maldives. In fact, we lose to them everyday.
In this list only country we can lose may be is China, and therefore lot of catch up to do, to the rest we can't lose. You know that so obviously you are not serious.
Last edited by Dipanker on 05 Oct 2013 07:44, edited 1 time in total.
Dipanker
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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Post by Dipanker »

3 Pigs dispatched to hell!

3 militants killed in Kupwara: Army
ramana
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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Post by ramana »

The real question is when are they clearing the Paki occupation of the village?
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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Post by ramana »

BTW Ashton Carter confirms how Badmash lost due to tactical brilliance as MMS lost his marbles.
Terrorism boomeranged on Pakistan, says US official
Washington, Oct 1, 2013 (IANS)

http://www.deccanherald.com/ content/360461/ terrorism- boomeranged- pakistan- says-us.html


A day after Prime Minister Manmohan Singh asked Pakistan to shun terrorism to make peace with India, a top US defence official suggested that over time Islamabad "flirted" with terrorism as state policy and now it has boomeranged on it. He said the threat to Pakistan was not from India but from the terrorism that it promoted and fostered.

"I was clear in Pakistan that the principal threat to Pakistan is terrorism, not its neighbours," Deputy Defence Secretary Ashton Carter, who visited India, Pakistan and Afghanistan recently, said Monday at a Washington think-tank.

"The government of Pakistan has flirted over time with using terrorism as an instrument of state policy, and it's coming to the realisation that terrorism' s a boomerang and it comes back on you when you try to use it for your own purposes," he said.

"I was honest with my hosts in Islamabad in terms of how Pakistan must achieve peaceful relations with India on the east in order to reap the benefits of cross-border trade, if it's truly to develop its economy," he said at the Centre for American Progress.

"And it needs a secure and stable Afghanistan on the west for the same reason," Carter said.

The official said he "was equally frank with my interlocutors in Delhi that the US supports Pakistani efforts to improve their bilateral relations and hope Delhi will reciprocate" . :rotfl:

Carter said he had also told the Indians of US government's appreciation for their support to Afghanistan "in the realms of humanitarian and development aid and their efforts to train the Afghan security forces in India".

Meanwhile, asked to comment Sunday's meeting between Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh and his Pakistani counterpart Nawaz Sharif, the State Department said the US welcomed "any and all high-level discussions between Pakistan and India".

"That would improve their bilateral relationship, " said spokesperson Jen Psaki who noted President Barack Obama had last week said the US shares "an interest with both countries in seeing a peaceful reduction of tensions on the subcontinent" .

"And we continue to support, strongly, efforts by India and Pakistan to improve all aspects of their bilateral relations, and we encourage further dialogue," she said.

In response to another question, Psaki said the US position on Kashmir has not changed. "We still believe the pace, scope, and character of India and Pakistan' s dialogue on Kashmir is for those two countries to determine, and we continue to encourage dialogue."
MMS would have given the store away but Badmash ruined it by sending those Paki troops and forced MMS not to lose face.
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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Post by Supratik »

KrishnaK wrote: Pure speculation. They might have acted against our interests but have nowhere shown a consistent policy of constraining India. India manages to do well on that account all by herself.

If you have been on BRF for 2 decades and following Indo-US relations over the same period you will get the idea. I said their policy is preservation of Pak and maintaining the status quo between India-Pak. So in relation to Pak India is constrained by US interests. The political leadership have accepted US mediation as some form of restraint on Pak. That is why we send dossiers to US on Pak perfidy everytime or MMS complains to BO. The Americans simply rebuke Pak, the Pakis say "hainji, hainji" and then go back to the same after some days. The Indian political leadership have accepted that it is OK to loose 10-25 people every now and then as it doesn't affect them either physically or politically. So it has become a recurring theme. My advise to members is to not get BP as nothing is going to happen. Unless we have a IG calibre person.
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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Post by Dipanker »

KrishnaK
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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Post by KrishnaK »

Supratik wrote:
KrishnaK wrote: Pure speculation. They might have acted against our interests but have nowhere shown a consistent policy of constraining India. India manages to do well on that account all by herself.
If you have been on BRF for 2 decades and following Indo-US relations over the same period you will get the idea. I said their policy is preservation of Pak and maintaining the status quo between India-Pak.
As against the avowed Indian goal of breaking Pakistan up ?
So in relation to Pak India is constrained by US interests.
We're constrained only by our own action or lack thereof. The US does contribute to it.
The political leadership have accepted US mediation as some form of restraint on Pak. That is why we send dossiers to US on Pak perfidy everytime or MMS complains to BO. The Americans simply rebuke Pak, the Pakis say "hainji, hainji" and then go back to the same after some days.
What do you expect the Americans to do ? The responsibility for the deaths of US/EU soldiers in Afghanistan is Pakistan's. And yet the US has done exactly what they do when India complains ? Instead of the grand conspiracy theory of taking so many deaths only to constrain India, could it be that the US can't do shit. Their policy of looking the other way when Pakistan was acquiring nukes has come to bite them. Karma !
The Indian political leadership have accepted that it is OK to loose 10-25 people every now and then as it doesn't affect them either physically or politically. So it has become a recurring theme. My advise to members is to not get BP as nothing is going to happen. Unless we have a IG calibre person.
You can keep dreaming about an IG calibre person. I think the only thing both the US and India will do is absorb the small stuff but keep pressuring Pakistan on the biggies. That's pretty much all that can be done frankly.
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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Post by Supratik »

KrishnaK wrote:As against the avowed Indian goal of breaking Pakistan up ?
Where did I say that? You are making things up. Breaking Pak-up although desirable is an extreme step and would require extreme provocation e.g. Bdesh in 1971 but there are many things that can be done in-between.
We're constrained only by our own action or lack thereof. The US does contribute to it.
I already said both.
What do you expect the Americans to do ? The responsibility for the deaths of US/EU soldiers in Afghanistan is Pakistan's. And yet the US has done exactly what they do when India complains ? Instead of the grand conspiracy theory of taking so many deaths only to constrain India, could it be that the US can't do shit. Their policy of looking the other way when Pakistan was acquiring nukes has come to bite them. Karma !
I don't think you follow discussions and analysis on BR much. This is not my CT. India doesn't act becoz of its own failings as well as constraints imposed on it by US e.g. one of US stated objectives has been for India to make concessions on Kashmir so that Pak feels secure and can concentrate on fighting terror on its western border. US is taking deaths in Afghn for its own faulty policies in Pak.
You can keep dreaming about an IG calibre person. I think the only thing both the US and India will do is absorb the small stuff but keep pressuring Pakistan on the biggies. That's pretty much all that can be done frankly.
I guess "small stuff" is OK becoz they are not from your family. US DOES NOT absorb small stuff on its territory. The "small stuff" of 9/11 has led to wars in 2 theaters resulting in the death on an estimated half-a-million. And what are the "biggies" that India has made progress on viz Pak. "Frankly" a lot can be done but it needs firm leadership, the capability to hit the opposing party and capacity to absorb adverse reaction. You are sounding like the "babooz" and "netas" of Lutyens - throwing their hand-up and concentrating on the loot at hand.
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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Post by abhik »

Dipanker wrote:Compared to Pakistan's $5 billion/yr miltary expenditure, India spends about $40 billion/yr. There is no comparision between military strength of India and Pakistan, India is much stronger than Pakistan.
OT but, Is India 8 times stronger than Pakistan? Seems to me that they are doing quite well against actually.
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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Post by RoyG »

India has the guns, but they are locked in the cupboard while Pakistan wields a pistol in the cocked and ready position.
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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Post by svinayak »

RoyG wrote:India has the guns, but they are locked in the cupboard while Pakistan wields a pistol in the cocked and ready position.
TSP is in a perpetual war with India since 1993 without break.
This is both covert and overt war. Indians are pretending that there is no war.

TSP is acting as part of the larger islamic world which has been under Islamic extremism since 1970s when the Iranian revolution started.
But TSP is increasing its population and also having geopolitical ambition and also has the most number of foreign military working with it at the same time in ISAF.
Last edited by svinayak on 07 Oct 2013 23:58, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Post by RoyG »

Ok, what now? We'll just have to wait for a new party at the center to strengthen our internal security and push through reforms. 80% of our Pakistan problem will disappear.
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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Post by svinayak »

RoyG wrote:Ok, what now? We'll just have to wait for a new party at the center to strengthen our internal security and push through reforms. 80% of our Pakistan problem will disappear.
India has two choices

1. India is at war. Do the war policy covert and overt
2. India is not at war. India do a policy of peace and engage neighborhood to increase India's peace and increase trade and commerce

If India cannot do 2 then repeat 1
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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Post by krishnan »

http://www.niticentral.com/2013/10/07/t ... 42631.html
The controversy and outrage over General VK Singh’s claim that the Indian Army used slush funds to pay some Jammu & Kashmir Ministers and politicians to maintain stability in the State is totally contrived, and was exposed by Wikileaks during its mega-leaks campaign way back in 2011. Indeed, several Indian newspapers and media sites had carried reports to this effect, but these failed to attract public attention in the absence of the context provided by the former Army chief’s revelations.

VK Singh’s exposé, on open secret in Jammu & Kashmir, has inflamed passions because Chief Minister Omar Abdullah has been making intemperate statements against the accession of the State to India and demanding withdrawal of the Armed Forces Special Powers Act (AFSPA). Experts believe Abdullah’s shoddy respect for the India is responsible for the sudden escalation of terror strikes in Jammu province and Srinagar Valley, where attempts to beat back a major infiltration by 30 to 40 terrorists accompanied by Pakistan Army Special Forces personnel have now entered the fourteenth day.

According to US State Department Cable ‘Kashmiri Politics as filthy as Dal Lake’, from envoy David Mulford on February 3, 2006, the Indian Government “recently broadened its Kashmir dialogue by holding several public and private meetings with non-Hurriyat leaders”. Besides increasing the net of separatist interlocutors beyond the Hurriyat, the talks aimed at “conveying the Indian Government’s displeasure at the Mirwaiz-led Hurriyat’s recent endorsement of Pakistani proposals on Kashmir”. The talks have made little substantive progress and many believe they have only fragmented Kashmiri politics further. The cable adds, “Beneath the surface of these political developments, the corrosive combination of money and corruption continues to strengthen its grip on the lives and calculations of politicians, separatists, terrorists, police, Army, and civilian administration officials, raising the question of whether the Kashmiri elite has an incentive to find a lasting political settlement”.

The cable continues, “New Faces, Same Old Results?” that PM Singh and his top advisors on Kashmir policy met with Sajjad Lone of the People’s Conference in early January, the first time the Prime Minister had met publicly with a non-Hurriyat separatist leader. According to official sources, the Prime Minister privately met with Yasin Malik of the Jammu & Kashmir Liberation Front (JKLF) in November 2005. Malik himself corroborated this to the American embassy, claiming that Singh embraced him for reportedly speaking out against violence when Malik visited Pakistani Kashmir after the earthquake (ref 05 New Delhi 8791).

At a Press conference on February 1, Manmohan Singh admitted to meeting Yasin, which led to criticism from the JKLF. The Government of India expects to further this “Kashmiri dialogue process” with Shabir Shah of the Democratic Freedom Party being the next non-Hurriyat leader to meet the Prime Minister. Professor Riaz Punjabi of the Jawaharlal Nehru University reportedly told the US Embassy that the Centre was unhappy with the Hurriyat’s trip to Pakistan in January 2006, where Hurriyat leader Mirwaiz Umar Farooq endorsed positions on Kashmir nearly identical to those articulated by General Musharraf and rejected by India, including “demilitarisation” and increased autonomy.

Kashmiri politicians, according to the US embassy cable, such as National Conference Lok Sabha MP AR Shaheen, had no confidence in the dialogue process and viewed it as a cynical attempt to divide politics in the State. Shaheen said the Hurriyat was upset over the Centre’s reaching out to Sajjad Lone and others. Sunil Sakdhar, President of Kashmir Samiti, also felt nothing would emerge from the talks. He argued that the “GOI was using the twin carrots of funding for favored political leaders and public meetings with the PM to create divisions between and amongst Kashmir’s political parties and separatists”.

In the section “Corruption Pervasive Within The Valley”, the cable notes that “Behind the political theater in J&K lurks the equal-opportunity threat of corruption and terrorist penetration of politics, business, and security forces. Corruption cuts across party lines and most Kashmiris take it as an article of faith that politically-connected Kashmiris take money from both India and Pakistan. For instance, a Kashmiri businessman told PolOff that Mirwaiz had acquired property in Dubai and the Kashmir Valley as a result of payoffs to him by various intelligence agencies (both Indian and Pakistani). We hear allegations such as these about politicians of all stripes in Kashmir”.

The cable adds, “Nor is the administration exempt from corruption. Rumor has it that some security force officers bribe their way into Kashmir assignments that give access to lucrative civil affairs and logistics contracts. On the civilian side, a recent newspaper article reported that the retired Minister of State for Irrigation and Flood Control is accused of embezzling funds and then using the money to construct two large homes in Srinagar”.

These tentacles extend to politics and business. The cable reads, “Recent arrests indicate that wanted terrorists have secured positions in prominent Kashmiri political parties, including the National Conference, People’s Democratic Party, and even Congress (ref 06 New Delhi 556). Their positions as councilors and elected party representatives allowed them special security access that gave them the ability to plot and carry out the assassinations of several Kashmiri politicians. Media reports also indicate that terrorists have infiltrated several leading business institutions. One of the principal suspects in the October 2005 Delhi bombings, for instance, worked as a senior sales representative for Johnson & Johnson in J&K. More recently, two officials of the Bombay Mercantile Cooperative Bank were arrested for being suspected Lashkar-e-Toiba (LeT) operatives”.

Nor are the police immune to terrorist penetration. “The J&K police, charged to protect Valley political leaders, have looked the other way when terrorists struck in the past. One close political section contact who was in the room when four assailants killed Kashmiri state education minister Ghulam Nabi Lone in October, and was himself almost killed, told us that over 27 security men had been patrolling the compound that morning, yet attackers entered, killed, and escaped unmolested. Doubts about the police worry the wife of the Mirwaiz, who told us her husband was much safer when he had his own private bodyguards prior to receiving protection from Government of India. Chief Minister Ghulam Nabi Azad recently replaced the head of police in the Valley for being too soft on terrorists. Two members of the Special Operations Group of the J&K police (District Pulwama) were arrested in late January 2006 for being Harkat-ul-Mujahideen (HM) terrorists. They admitted to having conspired with HM to kill not only police informers but also the head of the Special Operations Group, all for $10,000”.

The US embassy therefore concluded that the “expansion of the dialogue process to include non-Hurriyat separatist groups is unlikely to produce any immediate substantive gains… The spread of corruption further undermines popular support of existing political parties and separatists. Money from Pakistani and Indian intelligence agencies and from Saudi and other foreign extremists has further distorted Kashmiri politics, incentivised leaders to perpetuate the conflict, and perverted State and Central Government institutions. While this river of dirty money has led to a boom in Kashmiri household income and real estate prices, it also calls into question whether the Kashmiri elite truly want a settlement to their problems. The minute a deal is struck, some must surely worry that the funds will dry up”.

*

On April 7, 2006, American ambassador David Mulford sent another cable, “Kashmiri Separatists Lack Clear Aim but Terrorists Still Target Democracy”, which referred to differences among the separatists over their response to the Prime Minister’s round-table dialogue in May. Fear played an element in their indecision as, “Terrorists continue to kill mainstream Kashmiri politicians, threaten separatists, and stir up mayhem in an effort to undermine the Indian democratic process before Legislative Assembly by-elections April 24. Mainstream political coalitions are also shifting, with the National Conference increasingly comfortable with Congress rule and the PDP increasingly paranoid.”

Most Kashmiris, in the ambassador’s assessment, “now largely renounce violence as a means to an end and seek normalcy and prosperity,” but have not yet figured out what to do next. “As dialogue with Pakistan and track II efforts continue, one separatist — Sajjad Lone — may covertly be fielding a candidate for a seat in the legislature. If he succeeds, at least one Hurriyat member will have dipped a toe into the waters of Indian democracy, and more may follow, vindicating India’s long term policy of giving all peaceful Kashmiris a real say in their affairs, albeit within the parameters of India’s Constitution.”

The US Political Counsellor’s discussions in Srinagar April 3-5 revealed division in the moderate separatist faction regarding Manmohan Singh’s dialogue offer at a round table in May in Srinagar. “Shabir Shah is fence-sitting… because he cannot bear to defer to Mirwaiz Omar Farooq, whom he views as a young upstart. Yasin Malik continues his effort to outflank the Mirwaiz by engaging in courageous and provocative diplomacy with extremist and terrorist groups across the border to urge them to support dialogue”.

The cable continues that the Mirwaiz meets regularly with Musharraf and makes news-grabbing statements at conferences to maintain primacy. On April 6, on returning from Pakistan, he called for the Hurriyat to host a rival roundtable discussion with representatives of all five regions of J&K (Jammu, Kashmir, Ladakh, Gilgit, and Baltistan). But New Delhi invited Sajjad Lone to parley with the Prime Minister in Delhi. Shabir said consensus was impossible now — the Jihad Council in Pakistan itself could not achieve consensus about dialogue with India, and Yasin and Mirwaiz remained at great odds with each other.

As for Bilal Lone, he dismissed “Yasin Malik’s posturing against the Hurriyat, saying that Yasin should give up “a month of his Pakistani salary” to compensate the families of boys killed in Bilal’s home area by the army, instead of urging the parents not to take Indian compensation and jobs”. He said Shabir’s “massive ego does not permit him to subordinate himself to the younger Mirwaiz”. Bilal said extremist separatist SAS Geelani, whose Hizb-ul-Mujahedin henchmen he is convinced murdered his father, “continues to act on instructions from across the border to sow dissension and fear, along with violence and murder”. The United States should isolate them all “for failing to show the principled courage of the Mirwaiz Hurriyat”.

In “Indians Playing Games”, the cable asserts that despite the violence, Bilal (Lone) was dismissive of the Indian dialogue process, saying “it is a sham composed of “paid agents” who attended the February session in Delhi”. He felt that by categorising residents as Paharis, Gujjars, Ladhakis, Hindus, etc, the GOI was practicing classic “divide and rule” strategy. Further, Bilal “complained that National Security Advisor Narayanan, whom he painted as the Svengali who orchestrates Delhi policy, was very dismissive of the Hurriyat and needed to “stop talking shit about us.” Narayanan, Shabir concurred, lacked imagination and did not take the Kashmiris’ aspirations seriously. Bilal said the Kashmiris should at least talk to Chief Minister Ghulam Nabi Azad, who has a direct political line to Sonia Gandhi, instead of a “cop” like Narayanan”.

Regarding the PM’s roundtable process, Yasin Malik complained to the Americans that “the GOI publicly engaging such a large group of Kashmir stake-holders undercut the authority of the Hurriyat and other separatist leaders like himself” and compromised his ability to “deliver” the jihadis to the table, or even to engage with them. He wanted more behind-the-scenes work, not media events.

The cable observed, in “One Ray Of Sunshine” that the only positive separatist voice was that of Sajjad Lone who, upbeat after attending the Pugwash conference in Islamabad, said “Musharraf is saying amazingly bold things lately”. Sajjad thought the Hizb-ul-Mujahedin might just endorse dialogue with India, but the LeT/Hafiz Saeed/foreign contingent of terrorists would never do so. Sajjad was questioned about his meeting with the Prime Minister, and explained that “the PM sincerely wants only the best for Pakistan and stiffens visibly when anyone berates Musharraf or Pakistan”. He felt that now that the PM has expanded the dialogue to include Kashmiri mainstream political parties, the APHC will eventually be obliged to contest the 2008 State election in order to keep their influence. He predicted that the 2008 turnout would be higher than in 2002, which had improved over the election before.

Yasin Malik, who told the US embassy that he again met Hizb-ul-Mujahedin commander Salahuddin and Lashkar-e-Tayyeba supremo Hafiz Saeed in Pakistan, reportedly said that though he continued to preach in favour of “the microphone over the gun,” “the (terrorist) groups will need the green light from Pakistan before they agree to anything like a ceasefire, which would be the first step to integrating them into the peace process. He suggested “your people should lean on Musharraf” to clear the way for such a gesture.

However, PDP leader Mehbooba Mufti complained to the Americans that the Congress-led Government in J&K had reverted to its customary bad old ways in the build-up to the April 24 by-elections. The Intelligence Bureau, she alleged, had given Sajjad Rs 1 crore to support an independent candidate secretly affiliated with him. She apprehended use of money power to defeat PDP candidates and hand Congress and National Conference victories in the by-election.

In “Show Me The Money”, the cable notes that a recurring theme in the Embassy’s interactions with Kashmiris is how Indian and Pakistani money has made all Kashmiri political actors dependent on handouts. “Omar and Farooq Abdullah, descendants of the Shaykh who first figured out Delhi’s money game, live in fabulous houses in Srinagar and Delhi, wear matching Panerai watches, serve Blue Label to the guests, and travel all over the world first class courtesy of the Indian Government. Mirwaiz is alleged to have real estate in Dubai courtesy of Pakistan. The State administration gets rivers of money for development but the streets in J&K are appalling, even by Indian standards.”

Most tellingly, the cable states, “Army officers, we have heard, allegedly bribe their superiors for postings to J&K to get their hands on the logistics contacts and “hearts and minds” money. Sajjad lamented that the conflict remained lucrative to many, and he is right. CPI(M) legislator Tarigami also told us too many people have a stake in the conflict’s perpetuation. Praveen Swami, reporting in Frontline revealed that a terrorist killed March 10 had 43 receipts for Rs 18,000 ($450) each in “donations.” Fifteen more had paid Rs 48,000 (>$1100) apiece. The money associated with the conflict clearly remains a collective disincentive to its resolution and should not be underestimated as a factor in decision-making across the board. According to Malik, “Kashmiri politics is no longer about ideology, it’s all a money game.”
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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Post by Vikas »

If attacking TSP and winning the war was as simple as some of the posters are believing, why would not GoI declare war on TSP tomorrow, win the war and win the next elections.Helluluja!!
What stops them from doing so if this game was in kitty as we are being led to believe ?
After all for a politician, nothing is more important than winning the elections and power.
Think about it...
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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Post by arun »

X Posted from the "Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - August 21, 2013" thread.

Images of dead Mohammadden Terrorists who were killed by the Indian Army when infiltrating into India from the Islamic Republic of Pakistan in the Keran sector of Jammu & Kashmir.

Pictures / Photographs:

6 Photos

Video and article:

NDTV exclusive: First images of terrorists killed at LoC in Keran
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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Post by Prem »

The Old Little Green snake And Traitor Speaketh
Kashmir’s tragic divideA.Gadha. Noorani
IF the prospects of success at the inter-governmental level seem none too promising, the omens within Jammu & Kashmir are none too bright either. In fact, the situation is worse than ever before. The people yearn for guidance from their leaders. But their leaders are hopelessly at loggerheads with one another. A debate on their unity commenced recently. Judging by past form, it is most unlikely that it will yield any results. The unionists, the National Conference in power in coalition with the Congress, and the main opposition group, the People’s Democratic Party, are preparing to fight it out in the elections to the assembly in Srinagar and to parliament in 2014. The separatist leaders are barely on speaking terms with each other.The debate was initiated on Sept 17 in Srinagar by none other than Ashraf Sehrai, secretary general of the Tehreek-i-Hurriyat led by Syed Ali Shah Geelani, at a function to launch a book. He was provoked by a speech by a former general secretary of the bar association, G.N. Shaheen. He castigated the separatist leadership of Kashmir for lack of unity.Shaheen suggested that all separatists should unite on one single platform to “carry forward the movement” to its logical conclusion. He did not define what that logical conclusion should be. His plea for unity stung Sehrai to the quick: “I, too, have many things to say on unity. A lot of secrets are buried in my heart. The occasion does not warrant that I should expose those secrets or use them against someone.” He proposed: “Let some one organise a mehfil-i-mubahisa (a meeting for debate) where we can discuss all these issues.” A meeting of this kind has some meaning if the leading participants have the desire and will to unite. Of this, there is not the faintest sign. Far from coming closer in the multiple crises that have played havoc with the lives of the people, ever since the feckless Omar Abdullah was planted as chief minister by New Delhi, they have drifted further apart.
An informed correspondent, Shah Abbas, noted in the excellent Srinagar weekly Kashmir Life on Sept 22: “Separatist camp is now divided to the extent that even the 2010 uprising and the hanging of Afzal Guru could not reunite it.” There is no real ideological divide between the two top leaders. On May 17, 2013 the Mirwaiz said that Kashmir was a natural part of Pakistan. Last month, Geelani declared that Kashmir was a “natural part of Pakistan”. In this they are being more royal than the king. Both swear by the UN resolutions.Irresponsible demagogy has debased political discourse in Kashmir; and not among the politicians alone.To begin with, Pakistan has never claimed that the territory of Indian Jammu & Kashmir as its “natural part”. Its demand rests on the people’s right to self-determination as agreed upon between India and Pakistan in 1947 well before the UN was seized of the matter and before it yielded its many resolutions — none of which is enforceable by it.
In 2013, not one of the five permanent members of the UN Security Council have endorsed any of the plebiscite resolutions of the UN Commission for India and Pakistan (1948-49). the last time that the Chinese leaders mentioned “the relevant decisions of the United Nations” was in February 1990 during the visit of the distinguished diplomat Iqbal Akhund to Beijing. He was national security adviser to Benazir Bhutto. Subsequently, Beijing was content to urge a ‘dialogue’ or ‘negotiations’ between Pakistan and India. Does this shift or the one by the United Nations weaken Kashmir’s inalienable right to decide its future? Certainly not.In the last two decades, Pakistan’s diplomacy on Kashmir has been realistic. But Geelani issued on Sept 16 a “protest calendar” avowedly to “keep the struggle alive”. It comprised a march to the offices of the UN observers in Srinagar and a memorandum to Ban Ki-moon — the secretary general.

It is not the movement but the leaders who need to keep themselves politically “alive” before an increasingly sceptical people. As Shah Abbas points out “the larger fact on ground is that people now do not pay any heed to the protest calls of separatist leaders. Even the security authorities do not impose any restrictions on the movement of common people whenever the separatists call for any ‘challo’ or protest”. An oppressed, downtrodden people do not deserve leaders with monumental egos each of whom tries to become the sole spokesman of Kashmir. They will not agree even on a simple programme to demand unitedly respect for the lives of the people and for civil liberties through an agreed minimum common programme for a united front. New Delhi profits by the divides among Kashmir’s politicians and rivets its control over the area with greater ease.In all the years, the Kashmiri separatists have signally failed to evolve any constructive, viable strategy. Implicit in their strategy is the foolish assumption that they can force India to quit Kashmir. It is an assumption which Pakistan’s leaders do not share. Hence, their constructive approach in contrast to the separatist leaders’ all or nothing policy.
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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Post by SSridhar »

X-posted from TSP thread.

Missing Kashmiris linked to Al-Qaeda drone project - Meena Menon, The Hindu
The Islamabad police have said that Irtiyaz and Dr. Mujahid Gilani, who escaped during a raid last month on their home on the outskirts of the city, are linked to al-Qaeda. A cousin of theirs, teenaged Shoaib Andrabi, is in judicial custody till October 21.

A senior police official who did not wish to be named told The Hindu on Monday that the Gilanis’ link to al-Qaeda and that they were using their house to test spy planes were now part of the official record. He said the police were still looking for the two Gilani brothers and others who could be involved in the case. There was no mention of the two women who went missing from the house after the police raid at Gilani Manzil around 1 a.m. on September 7.

All three men in question are nephews of Syed Asiya Andrabi, founder-chairperson of Dukhtaraan-e-Millat, the all-women Kashmiri Islamist separatist group. Shoaib is the first son of Asiya Andrabi’s brother Zia-ul-Haq Andrabi. Irtiyaz, an aeronautical engineer, is Asiya Andrabi’s sister Rehana’s son. He and his younger brother Mujahid Gilani, a paediatric surgeon, lived in the house. Dr. Mujahid had a practice in the neighbourhood market. Their elder brother, Zulqarnain, a captain in the Pakistan Army, was an occasional visitor at Gilani Manzil.

While Shoaib Andrabi was arrested, Irtiyaz Un Nabi Gilani alias Sarfi fired at the police while running away, according to the first information report. A large drum filled with explosives and arms was found buried on the premises. The police had then said there was evidence of work on spy planes but recently confirmed a “drone” project. The drones were to be used on high-security targets, according to a report in The News .

The plot has since thickened with the arrest of a Hammad Adil and another suspect in the case of a huge arms cache found in the Bhara Kahu area of Islamabad and for several other high-profile crimes including the killing of public prosecutor Chaudhry Iftikhar and Shahbaz Bhatti. Police are on the lookout for Tanveer, an al-Qaeda operative allegedly behind a series of killings and blasts and who is suspected to have links with the Gilanis. Related incidents including an attempted suicide bomb attack on a mosque in Bhara Kahu and a huge cache of explosives being found in a car in the same area.
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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Post by arun »

X Posted from the “Pakistani Role In Global Terrorism” thread.

Two Mohammadden terrorists infiltrating into India from the Islamic Republic of Pakistan captured by our Army:

Army captures two infiltrating Pak militants
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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Post by jamwal »

Heard that some Kashmiri Pandits are returning and taking possessions of their properties. The numbers are still very small though and islamisation of Kashmir is going on full steam regardless.

Pious muslims are doing their best to delete everything non-islamic from valley. Places like Anantnag are being called Islamabad, Shankracharya hill is being called "something-sulemaani", Pratap Park is also being called something piously islamic.

Kashmir is a live example of how blood thirsty cults like Islam work. Get a toehold by fooling people with messages of peace and love. Use force as well as deception to gain majority. Wipe out the minorities when sufficient power is gained. Then make it an Islamic heaven by rewriting history. Also get jaziya and sympathy from kafirs of all types while claiming victim hood.
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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Post by Vikas »

+100 Jamwal ji
IMO Islamisation of Kashmir is almost complete now and it took them less than quarter of a century. I wonder how Hindus survived this Islamic onslaught for 100's of years.
There is hardly anything Hindu left there except for in Govt files which someday will start following the Islamic route. The sad part is that still RAPE Class of India keeps talking about this mysterious animal called "Kashmiriyat" which no one knows about. If not for Maharaja Ranjit Singh and Dogra Emperors later, Kashmir would have been another Law-hore by now and yet thankless rulers in Delhi and leftist historians can't stop running them down.
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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Post by harbans »

When Hindu's and Buddhists aka Dharmics were majority in Jammu and Kashmir, did they prevent Muslim migration? Then why is a Muslim majority J&K wanting to prevent normal migration? Why should a Dharmic Majority Ladhak/ Leh want Muslim migration?
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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Post by Jarita »

VikasRaina wrote:+100 Jamwal ji
IMO Islamisation of Kashmir is almost complete now and it took them less than quarter of a century. I wonder how Hindus survived this Islamic onslaught for 100's of years.
There is hardly anything Hindu left there except for in Govt files which someday will start following the Islamic route. The sad part is that still RAPE Class of India keeps talking about this mysterious animal called "Kashmiriyat" which no one knows about. If not for Maharaja Ranjit Singh and Dogra Emperors later, Kashmir would have been another Law-hore by now and yet thankless rulers in Delhi and leftist historians can't stop running them down.

Hindus survived because we did not have Congress and other worthies. Last 60+ years have been the worst. Parts of India which were never part of British India - J&K, Mysore etc, came under brown sepoy rule and the citadels have fallen rapidly since. A case is Nepal which was later to fall but fall it did under the weight of the "brown sepoys" of India
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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Post by sum »

Kashmiriyat on display ( which makes blood boil more). How cheap we have made the life of our securitymen.. :(

On Eid, J&K police driver was stoned to death by mob
Head constable-driver Kanwarnain Singh of Singhpora, who was ferrying police training recruits back from Hazratbal to Baramulla after the conclusion of Eid prayers, was brutally stoned to death by unruly crowds gathered on the highway at Palhalan for a “demonstration” on Wednesday.

Earlier, police officials in Srinagar and Baramulla were tasked with making arrangements for Chief Minister Omar Abdullah’s prayers “among thousands of Muslims” at Hazratbal. They had been asked to position 300 personnel in civvies in the first three ranks of congregational prayers to create an invisible shield around him.

Deputy Inspector-General J.P. Singh and Baramulla SP Zuber Khan deployed police personnel.

The Department of Information issued the following press release that day.

“Mr. Abdullah offered Eid prayers at Hazratbal amongst thousands of Muslims. He exchanged Eid greetings with the people, mingled with them and conveyed his wishes to them.”

Kanwarnain Singh, who had volunteered to drive one of the four buses of District Police Lines Baramulla, encountered an unruly mob on the highway. On sighting the police buses, the “demonstrators” began shouting pro-Azadi, pro-Pakistan and anti-India slogans, though they had no immediate cause.

Palhalan, though retaining the label of North Kashmir’s “most sensitive flashpoint” since 2010, had no police or paramilitary deployment to guard the government cavalcades that day. Even as two of the buses sped towards the destination and the fourth one managed to escape in the reverse direction, Kanwarnain’s vehicle was subjected to a barrage of stones. It took the mob less than five minutes to have him dead.

While no politician or official except Congress leader Saif-ud-din Soz condemned the murder, the police themselves underplayed the incident as “an accident”. There was no official statement, let alone a tweet of condemnation from Mr. Abdullah.

The Congrees leader’s son, Salman Soz, and the opposition People’s Democratic Party’s MLA from Baramulla, Muzaffar Hussain Baig, were the only leaders who called on the bereaved family, which held DIG Singh and SP Khan “directly responsible” for Kanwarnain’s murder.

“There was no police protection. Everybody knew that the residents of Palhalan would attack the government vehicles,” Kanwarnain’s elder brother Sarabjit Singh, a district officer in Baramulla, told The Hindu.

Kanwarnain, lone breadwinner of the family, is survived by his handicapped mother, wife Satnam Kaur and two children— Navpreet Kaur and Amanjit Singh — both school students.

As Sarabjit was enthusiastically greeting Muslim neighbours on Eid, he received the bad news from his friends in Palhalan.

“They gave us harrowing details of the assault. Kanwarnain slowed down and then attempted to speed away but the crowds blocked the road with a motorcycle and a car. Dozens of men jumped onto his bus from either side and broke his neck and shoulders with 5-kg stones. They dragged him out and trampled upon him till he died,” Sarabjit said.

“Some eyewitnesses told us that he was strangled to death with a scarf. We saw torture marks all over his front and back during the funeral bathing,” said cousin Rajbir Singh.

DIG Singh and SP Khan did not respond to phone calls.
Not a peep from any MSM or any other $%#^@ "secular" netas.
Locked