Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 06 Oct 2013 09:07

^darn.. the fault of photography.. still, the modi tatoo appeared secondary to me to shape science observations.

gakakkad · Post by **gakakkad** » 06 Oct 2013 09:10

>>Also, when Missionaries implicated Asaram Bapu, NaMo could NOT even make one statement to show that he sides with Asaram Bapu . Asaram Bapu is one of the few "Hindu missionary" in tribal areas now. If anyone is creating road-blockers or show-stoppers against Missionaries in tribal/dalit areas in Gujarat, Rajasthan and MP , it is Asaram Bapu. Despite all this, NaMo had to take an anti-Asaram-Bapu stand.

that is because Modi is against asaram scum-boo...i posted a 2012 video in which modi attempted to arrest asaram..there is plenty of evidence against him and some of the alleged crimes back to early 2000s..you can't defend the indefensible..

you talk of MNC's as a single entity... I agree that massive corporations have in the past,subverted governments,engineered wars,initiated regime changes and done plenty of acts of evil across the world..for the sake of argument ,why would they be interested in spreading Christianity ? or any religion for that matter ? how does it affect there bottom line ?

>> MNC-owners are now too powerful in India. They own 100% of Congress, 100% of Supreme Court, over 80% of media, over 70% of High Courts and also own 50% of BJP, and they own 100% of Aam Adami Party.

why do we need to worry about Indian/foreign Mncs's 'subverting democracy' ,when CON party is doing exactly that? it is a kind of evil comparable to the likes of Hitler or pol pot..why do we worry about tata or general motors ?

if mnc's were indeed as powerful as you claimed, than posco would have had no trouble with the plant it wanted to build...and maruti/suzuki would have experienced no problem in the manesar plant..etc

besides why are the maoist and christian missionaries,creating a lot of trouble when people to set up manufacturing units ?

one more thing ..

you accuse Modi of siding with MNCs and christian missionaries ..while christian missionaries accuse him of siding with Hindu's and MNC's..from the maoist news letter..

http://pd.cpim.org/2013/0825_pd/0082520 ... truth.html

commie maoist on columbian crack wrote: A myth is spread that Christian missions are taking over the whole Dangs district, while in fact only five per cent of the adivasis in Dangs are Christian. The fact that this process has intensified after 2006 shows that the Modi government is interested in creating a broad coalition against the minorities in order to polarise public opinion.
....................
In sum, it is clear that the Gujarat model of adivasi development is part of a larger alliance between Hindutva and corporate capital. This trend can be fought only politically and ideologically if the democratic movement and its organisations intensify their struggles in the region. By doing this, they will also help to build a democratic adivasi consciousness that is essential to counter both Hindutva and corporate capitalis

bhy phor this dichotomy , hain ji ?

vivek.rao · Post by **vivek.rao** » 06 Oct 2013 09:27

Sushupti wrote:@krishnarjun108 1h
Media parasites desperately want Modi to become Vajpayee .Lutyens Delhi mafia begging - " will continue our nefarious criminal, treacherous activities modi, please be statesman like Vajpayee for us".

Man of the moment: Modi is speaking, India is listening

http://www.hindustantimes.com/editorial ... 31551.aspx

I am not a great subscriber of the theory that the allies are all so ideologically motivated that they will not throw in their lot with Modi whose track record is tainted by the riots of 2002. I think that by and large they are an opportunistic lot who will go where the power is. If it is with the Congress, they will be at the doorstep hat in hand in a trice trying to get the best bargain. If Modi races ahead, they will find reasons to throw in their lot with him. Perhaps they will say that this is the only way they can keep a check on him and ensure that he becomes secularised. Nothing should surprise you too much unless suddenly the CPI(M) were to begin singing Modi’s praises.

He He He... No Indian with even single digit IQ believed the secular vs communal game is based on principle except for useless,pathetic PAIDMEDIA MAFIA consultants. Suddenly the morons of PAIDMEDIA discover the truth.

So in effect the arrival of Modi on the centrestage has led to a metamorphosis of the BJP from hopeless to hopeful. Not a bad job by a man reviled as a polarising figure. The crowds at his rallies also show how wrong the armchair analysis that the essentially secular soul of most Indians will recoil from Modi has turned out to be. On the contrary, fed up with an ineffective and scam-tainted government, they seem willing to try a new flavour even if it is a bit of an acquired taste.

Didn't these scoundrels tell how Modi will raise the CON party votes by polarization? Ha Ha Ha... Do they really think people are that stupid with no memory or is it just idiocy?

Well... We don't need another Vajpayee. We know what happened to Vajpayee. In spite of Growth, Development, Prices Indians dumped him. We need Modi who knows the pulse of people, he will give them what they want and will also dare to tell them what they need if they are not sure.

vivek.rao · Post by **vivek.rao** » 06 Oct 2013 09:35

This is what Modi has to change. I don't know how. He has to cut this garbage and put them in their place.

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/reve ... 12039.html

Revenge of the Babus: Liberalisation has expanded the power of the bureaucracy, creating a permanent establishment that never retires

In February 2013, a month before former telecom secretary Rentala Chandrasekhar was to retire, there was a buzz in government circles about where he would go next. Would he be the next Comptroller and Auditor General (CAG)? The next Insurance Regulatory and Development Authority (IRDA) chairman? The next chief of National Technical Research Organisation? Or the next chairman of Nasscom? The 1975-batch officer is described by colleagues as "one of the Government's best". Yet it was remarkable how Chandrasekhar's expertise was deemed transferrable for jobs as diverse as insurance policy, intelligence gathering, auditing and industry management for software. Chandrasekhar, who is now chairman of Nasscom, is not alone in this game of retirement roulette, where, red or black number, everyone must win. Defence Secretary S.K. Sharma, who retired on May 22, became the new CAG the next day. Former heavy industries secretary S. Sundareshan retired in December 2012 and was appointed mission director of the direct cash transfer scheme in June, and Gireesh B. Pradhan, who retired as secretary in the new and renewable energy ministry in December 2012, is tipped to be the new chief of the Central Electricity Regulatory Commission (CERC).

The Competition Commission of India (CCI), a new regulatory body which was to supervise competitive practices, was instituted in 2003. A technocrat was apparently considered for the job but retired commerce secretary Dipak Chatterjee was picked instead. The appointment was challenged in a PIL filed by advocate Brahma Dutt who argued that a bureaucrat could not preside over a quasi-judicial body. Then chief justice V.N. Khare was quoted as saying, "At this rate, a day would come, maybe after 20 years, when the 26 judges of the apex court would be replaced by bureaucrats."

The major scams such as 2G and Coalgate show that rather than regulation, arbitrariness governs the allocation of resources. So where were the regulators then? Former government officials point to a systematic weakening of independent regulators: The bureaucracy had found a way to strike back.

"The first trai headed by a retired judge, Justice S.S. Sodhi, functioned well and took some important policy decisions. But the Department of Telecom didn't like it at all," TSR Subramanian, former cabinet secretary, told india today. The government disbanded trai in 1999 after finding it too independent. The official reason, ironically, was that the regulator had to be made more independent. It was reconstituted in 2000 with its powers substantially weakened and its judicial functions transferred to a separate tribunal. "If we had a strong telecom regulator, we may not have had a 2G scam. Similarly, if we had a regulatory body that could oversee the allocation of a priceless natural resource like coal, there may not have been a controversy," he points out.

Santosh · Post by **Santosh** » 06 Oct 2013 09:41

kapilrdave wrote:By that time they hoped to get 'Baudh Votes' from them which has not happened so far.

Kapil ji, take a bow on behalf of your Pita shri. I hope everyday that good work like this is also being done in AP and TN. But sadly all you hear about AP is how Samuel Jagan is crying crocodile tears.

niran · Post by **niran** » 06 Oct 2013 09:44

vivek.rao wrote:This is what Modi has to change. I don't know how. He has to cut this garbage and put them in their place.

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/reve ... 12039.html
Revenge of the Babus: Liberalisation has expanded the power of the bureaucracy, creating a permanent establishment that never retires

that is slightly off the mark, IAS/IPS/PSC chamchas has been rewarded with service tenure extensions, plump postings post retirement some even in private sectors since the days of Bartania sarkar, not post liberalization as the article implies.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 06 Oct 2013 10:33

So the sterling party with a difference did zilch to penetrate TN, but now will want to willy nilly partner with anyone for the sake of defeating INC. Wah, kya party hain re BJP. It will get into bed with all sorts of personalities, and when questioned kautilya will be thrown around. Kautilya worked hard to uproot his enemies, he did his homework. Developed spies, created the environment, burned the mid night oil to topple his enemies. It is not like the war suddenly loomed, and he threw his mandala theory and struck alliances at the last moment.
So it did almost ghanta in the last five years in TN, and at the 11th hour puts everything on the shoulders of poor Modi. He is not magician, just a politician. Truly a party of difference, does not want to fight.

nawabs · Post by **nawabs** » 06 Oct 2013 14:14

A rath yatra to tell Modi’s ‘success story’ to farmers

http://www.hindustantimes.com/India-new ... 31559.aspx

Another Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) rath is winding its way in what was once India’s first prime minister Jawarharlal Nehru’s Lok Sabha constituency of Phulpur-Allahabad. This time, it is not for invoking Hindutva but to woo farmers by publicising Narendra Modi’s success story in Gujarat’s arid lands that have seen an agricultural boom in the last decade.

As directed by Modi and his confidant Amit Shah, Uttar Pradesh BJP leaders led by Sidharth Nath Singh, are steering the rath through the constituency, which Nehru won in India’s first parliamentary polls in 1952 and again in 1957 and 1962.

Singh, who is seen as a prospective BJP nominee, says, “our slogan to farmers is desh ki mitti, desh ki shakti! (country’s soil is country’s strength). Our yatra was launched by Rajya Sabha deputy opposition leader Ravishankar Prasad on October 2, which was Shastri’s 109th birth anniversary.”

During the yatra, Singh, a grandson of India’s second prime minister Lal Bahadur Shastri, invokes his famous slogan of 1965, “jai jawan, jai kisan” (hail the soldier, hail the farmer). Also, a film is shown during the yatra which begins with Modi’s tribute to Shastri as the pioneer of India’s agriculture growth story and recalls Atal Bihari Vajpayee’s “jai vigyan” (hail the advent of science) call.

Amit Shah, BJP’s in-charge for Uttar Pradesh, will address the yatra on October 9. He had prayed at the makeshift Ram temple in Ayodhya on July 6, inviting criticism that the BJP was reviving a divisive agenda. The yatra will end on October 11, the birth anniversary of anti-Emergency hero, JP Narayan, when it is addressed by BJP vice president Mukhtar Abbas Naqvi.

Sagar G · Post by **Sagar G** » 06 Oct 2013 14:54

SaiK wrote:^darn.. the fault of photography.. still, the modi tatoo appeared secondary to me to shape science observations.

kapilrdave · Post by **kapilrdave** » 06 Oct 2013 15:51

Santosh wrote:
kapilrdave wrote:By that time they hoped to get 'Baudh Votes' from them which has not happened so far.
Kapil ji, take a bow on behalf of your Pita shri. I hope everyday that good work like this is also being done in AP and TN. But sadly all you hear about AP is how Samuel Jagan is crying crocodile tears.

Thanks Santoshi ji. Credit must go to NM also who gives level playing field in the state.

Unlike some keyboard warriors on this forum who have never ever faced the brutal tactics of EJs and hence ride on high horses of morals and "societies", some people know what needs to be done to save the identity of the nation, and they are not afraid of taking up the challenge. Ask RSS cadre of Kerala how difficult it is. It is a threat to their life

. Many have died. Yet, they still do it for the motherland. It is a total war out there.

vivek.rao · Post by **vivek.rao** » 06 Oct 2013 16:04

SwamyG wrote:So the sterling party with a difference did zilch to penetrate TN, but now will want to willy nilly partner with anyone for the sake of defeating INC. Wah, kya party hain re BJP. It will get into bed with all sorts of personalities, and when questioned kautilya will be thrown around. Kautilya worked hard to uproot his enemies, he did his homework. Developed spies, created the environment, burned the mid night oil to topple his enemies. It is not like the war suddenly loomed, and he threw his mandala theory and struck alliances at the last moment.
So it did almost ghanta in the last five years in TN, and at the 11th hour puts everything on the shoulders of poor Modi. He is not magician, just a politician. Truly a party of difference, does not want to fight.

That is the cost of what Advani/SS and others in BJP did. They systematically went into a coma after 2004. On top of it, they worked in collusion with MAFIA to destroy K'taka.

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 06 Oct 2013 16:27

Nisha Singh ‏@Nisha_Hindu 24m
First national leader, leave alone party, religion, wishing & praying with Hindus at Navratri.

Sagar G · Post by **Sagar G** » 06 Oct 2013 16:31

Look at his feet, this is not a photo op but true devotion.

vivek.rao · Post by **vivek.rao** » 06 Oct 2013 16:33

Meanwhile the Sakuni look-alike of Indian politics and his reprehensible behavior

Has Nitish invited Pranab to Bihar to halt Modi’s mega rally?

A day after a JD(U) leader urged Bihar Chief Minister Nitish Kumar to cancel BJP Prime Ministerial candidate Narendra Modi‘s proposed Bihar rally on 27 October, has the CM actually acted on it? The Bihar CM has reportedly invited President Pranab Mukherjee to visit on the same dates. Bihar BJP leader Sushil Kumar Modi tweeted saying that Nitish Kumar is ‘playing all tricks’ to stop Modi’s rally in Bihar. “First, permission for whole Maidan was denied, now Nitish Kumar has invited the President to Patna on the same dates,” he tweeted.

Sagar G · Post by **Sagar G** » 06 Oct 2013 16:53

^^^ That moron is only making Modi most wanted by doing his morongiri

Rahul Mehta · Post by **Rahul Mehta** » 06 Oct 2013 17:30

Given this "S before D" (*) statement from NaMo, now how would NaMo react when RBI Chief Raghuram Ghazani (**) publishes the details to do Ghazani on all temples of India?

"If S comes before D, then why have so much gold in D, in a country which doesnt have sufficient S" is a natural question that Soorpankha Ghandy , MMS and Raghuram Ghazani would all ask.

So if Raghuram Ghazani decides to do Ghazani on temples across India, what would be NaMo's take? And how would NaMo-bhagats react?

And btw, why are Subramanian Swami and Mohan Bhagatwat both maintaining thundering silence on "S before D" statement? Are they waiting for more pearls of wisdom to come?

==

(* - I use letters S and D, as I dont have courage to put these two words in same sentence
** - Now that we all know that new RBI Chief's ancestor was none other than The Ghazani, I think we all can agree to call him using his real name i.e. Raghuram Ghazani . Right Vina? )

Sagar G · Post by **Sagar G** » 06 Oct 2013 17:56

^^^ What makes you think that you are holier than thou ???

gakakkad · Post by **gakakkad** » 06 Oct 2013 18:08

and rahul mehta biraather, care to answer my question ? the one that deals wid modi being mnc wallah ,promoting conversions ...

>>And btw, why are Subramanian Swami and Mohan Bhagatwat both maintaining thundering silence on "S before D" statement? Are they waiting for more pearls of wisdom to come?

perhaps because ,they do not find it objectionable like most rational beings....

>>(* - I use letters S and D, as I dont have courage to put these two words in same sentence

ahh...more polemics ...

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 06 Oct 2013 18:11

Rudradev wrote:
That certainly appears to be YOUR end goal in this analogy, Devesh ji. You have admitted that you would buy the flat, get rid of the mandir and put in a shauchalaya. It would seem you think it's perfectly ok to destroy a duly consecrated residence of a deity to make a 30% margin.

Lesser Hindus and Fanboys like myself would probably have found some way to put in a shauchalaya without destroying the devalaya, or if that were impossible, decided not to buy the place at all. But what do we know.

As for the evil pseudosecularist-in-becoming, Narendra Modi, all he has said is that he would never build such a flat in the first place; indeed, he would make sure as an architect that he designed the flat with shauchalaya in mind, before adding the devalaya.

Now as a potential dweller in such a flat, it would make me happy that it had both shauchalaya and devalaya- but you apparently feel it has to be one or the other, and would rip out the devalaya to put in your jaccuzzi. What can I say- dharmo rakshit rakshitah onlee.

I don't think you realize what you started all by yourself without any help from me or anyone else. you essentially put a price on the temple. you put a monetary value on it and decided to put it in the market. that is all your decision. forget me. introduce some XYZ who cares nothing for the mandir (even while he pretends to be a devout Hindu). that's it. just entering that piece of real estate into market is itself a death-knell to that mandir. shifting blame to the "buyer" is moronic. the buyer is partly to blame. but the process was started by the seller who decided to abandon the mandir to the forces of finance and speculation.

this is the precedent that NaMo is setting. it's a dangerous path. and they way he said it was "courageous", it seems as if he said it for the applause of the "seculars" and "kewl urban" crowd.

Rahul Mehta · Post by **Rahul Mehta** » 06 Oct 2013 18:26

gakakkad wrote:and rahul mehta biraather, care to answer my question ? the one that deals wid modi being mnc wallah ,promoting conversions ...

>>And btw, why are Subramanian Swami and Mohan Bhagatwat both maintaining thundering silence on "S before D" statement? Are they waiting for more pearls of wisdom to come?

perhaps because ,they do not find it objectionable like most rational beings....

>>(* - I use letters S and D, as I dont have courage to put these two words in same sentence

ahh...more polemics ...

Pls post Q on my wall on https://facebook.com/mehtarahulc , and I will surely answer them. Because answers are sometimes offensive as per BR-rules.

eg many moons ago, I explained why BJP Ministers allowed Bagladeshis to sneak in during 1998-2004 at same rate as Congress, and admins got upset because of the corruption allegations I made on ABV, LKA, Arun Shourie etc.

My point is --- ugly questions like

why did ABV, LKA , Arun Shourie, Arun Jetley etc raised juvenile criminal age limit from 16 years to 18 years in year 2001?
why NaMo didnt say a word to support Asaram Bapu, who has done BIGGEST work in blocking Missionaries in tribal\dalit areas in 3 states - Gujarat, Rajasthan, MP
why is NaMo favoring FDI in defense
why NaMo mentioned Bangladeshi issue in Gujarat, but NOT in his Kolkata speech?
why isnt NaMo opposing EVMs?
why isnt NaMo putting Hari Prasad video on NaMo's website?
why isnt Subramanian Swamy telling activists that by placing 65 candidates, EVM can be defeated .
why Subramanian Swamy dethroned ABV and assisted Sonia Gandhi in becoming PM in 1998
why did Mohan Bhagwat asked RSS-district-heads , not to appeal to voters across India to send orders to MPs via SMS to make RJB, KJB, KV ?

etc etc have very very ugly answers. And they cross the BRF's speech limits. So I can answer your Qs on FB, but not here.

negi · Post by **negi** » 06 Oct 2013 18:29

^ Times have changed RM bhai you can post your opinion/take here bas thoda makhkhan maarne ka .

I might have a few points to make on couple of above issues which you have raised. FB is irritating for you cannot quote people.

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 06 Oct 2013 18:52

why NaMo didnt say a word to support Asaram Bapu, who has done BIGGEST work in blocking Missionaries in tribal\dalit areas in 3 states - Gujarat, Rajasthan, MP

What has his work against missionaries got to do with rape? Or do you mean that if someone has done something good he is free to rape? What kind of logic are you deploying here?

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 06 Oct 2013 19:08

Muppalla wrote:
krishnan wrote:honestly there are no good partners in TN, even vijaykath has lost a lot of respect , such a short tempered guy, he will probably beat the ministers if they dont do their work properly
Honestly at this time defeating dynasty is more important than building a base in TN just few months before polls. They need to find ways to get JJ on board and not divide her votes to get DMK more seats.

Got to be careful! you might be strengthening the dynasty in the long run entirely depending on the alliance, as the control relationship is only modi wave.. if the strength of wave lowers or gets in the different order of priorities, then dynasty rulings will continue.. they are the dark force masters!

I'd say, keep it going the modi way, and gather as much momentum as needed in TN cities.. do 5-8 cities and capture 5 MP seats. try to get 272 for good governance controls.. else, scratch back and scratching pains onlee.

===============

btw, modi's compulsory voting will work only if we take the EVMs to doors.. have EVM vans driving through villages and towns on schedule.

btw, he should also have an opinion on having a print trail on votes. also, think about smart phone apps secured voting (TLS/https/AES256with salt/high end cryptography). That is like a big business model to even administer a public key certificate to each app owner. voting by smartphones should be allowed. online voting should be allowed as well, if voted from their personal machine.

for public voting, they can take the EVMs on vans... the current EVMs should be changed.. and rework on the next gen designs.

Sridhar K · Post by **Sridhar K** » 06 Oct 2013 20:00

TN and AP police have arrested the suspected murderers of TN Bjp auditor Ramesh. This is after the TN police nabbing a key accomplice. This comes after Modi rally where he did not utter a word on the murder. Was there a tacit understanding with Amma.

Vipin_Upadhyay · Post by **Vipin_Upadhyay** » 06 Oct 2013 20:04

^^ could be.
In that rally NaMo didn't even praised JJ once or mentioned about anything regarding governance in TN. Something was definitely cooking before rally.

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 06 Oct 2013 20:06

Embarrassed Odisha Cong slams Tharoor for statement on Naveen

During his visit to the state on Friday, Tharoor had told a local news channel "Congress door is always open for Naveen Patnaik.

"But, it is not my place to work in the area. I have a different role. But, I know, many in our party have a high level of respect for Naveen Patnaik for taking leadership in Odisha."

Tharoor had further said "Naveen leads a secular party with which the Congress has no basic fundamental difference."

http://www.business-standard.com/articl ... 491_1.html

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 06 Oct 2013 20:08

are there any good governance comparisons state wise?

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 06 Oct 2013 20:13

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 06 Oct 2013 20:22

Uncertainty stares at flip-flop Jagan

YSR Congress president YS Jagan Mohan Reddy, out of jail after 16 months, finds life outside no different. The heady days of June last year, when he won 15 of the 18 Assembly bypolls, are a blur at best. Caught between the devil and the deep sea as it were, he finds himself in an unenviable position.

His inconsistent stand on division of the state—he had initially demanded justice for Telangana and now, opposes a separate state altogether—absence of strong cadre and more importantly, talk of his alleged deal with the Congress, widely believed to be the reason for his bail, have put the YSRC chief on the backfoot.

Though Jagan launched an indefinite hunger strike on Saturday against division of the state, his united Andhra Pradesh stand has been questioned for a good reason. By pitching openly for Seemandhra interests, he has vacated political space in Telangana for good. Denting his credibility further are statements from Congress leaders that he was released on bail after a deal with the party leadership. This apart, his U-turn from ‘respecting Telangana sentiment’ to ‘opposing bifurcation’ has not gone down well even with people in Seemandhra as it flies in the face of his own oft-repeated claim that he doesn’t go back on his word. A joke doing the rounds in political circles is that though Jagan claims he is committed to an integrated state, he is desperate, even more than the separatists themselves, to have the state divided for he could have a free run in Seemandhra.

http://newindianexpress.com/thesundayst ... 820789.ece

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 06 Oct 2013 20:45

Paper voting is best anyday. Evm do never give confidence which is very important. Japan which makes them never use them. I do not know any other nation which does in our way.

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 06 Oct 2013 20:45

Paper voting is best anyday. Evm do never give confidence which is very important. Japan which makes them never use them. I do not know any other nation which does in our way.

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 06 Oct 2013 20:54

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 06 Oct 2013 20:56

Is it just me, but does RG not look a bit like Sanjay Gandhi?

negi · Post by **negi** » 06 Oct 2013 20:59

^ Oye guru tussi bhool gaye as to what Mr. SS said about the dynasty ? "Nehru-Gandhi family mein kaun kiska baap hai ya kaun kiska beta kisi ko maloom nahin" . In Gabbar's voice "Humko kuch nahin maloom, humko kuch nahin maloom".

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 06 Oct 2013 21:02

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 06 Oct 2013 21:19

Looks like all these guys were in NDA govt only to strengthen hands of dynasty loyalist PM against communal forces in BJP.

BJP slams Naveen Patnaik over Narendra Modi remark, dubs BJD as 'B' team of Congress

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/bjp- ... 13385.html

Rudradev · Post by **Rudradev** » 06 Oct 2013 21:25

devesh wrote:
Rudradev wrote:
That certainly appears to be YOUR end goal in this analogy, Devesh ji. You have admitted that you would buy the flat, get rid of the mandir and put in a shauchalaya. It would seem you think it's perfectly ok to destroy a duly consecrated residence of a deity to make a 30% margin.

Lesser Hindus and Fanboys like myself would probably have found some way to put in a shauchalaya without destroying the devalaya, or if that were impossible, decided not to buy the place at all. But what do we know.

As for the evil pseudosecularist-in-becoming, Narendra Modi, all he has said is that he would never build such a flat in the first place; indeed, he would make sure as an architect that he designed the flat with shauchalaya in mind, before adding the devalaya.

Now as a potential dweller in such a flat, it would make me happy that it had both shauchalaya and devalaya- but you apparently feel it has to be one or the other, and would rip out the devalaya to put in your jaccuzzi. What can I say- dharmo rakshit rakshitah onlee.

I don't think you realize what you started all by yourself without any help from me or anyone else. you essentially put a price on the temple. you put a monetary value on it and decided to put it in the market. that is all your decision. forget me. introduce some XYZ who cares nothing for the mandir (even while he pretends to be a devout Hindu). that's it. just entering that piece of real estate into market is itself a death-knell to that mandir. shifting blame to the "buyer" is moronic. the buyer is partly to blame. but the process was started by the seller who decided to abandon the mandir to the forces of finance and speculation.

this is the precedent that NaMo is setting. it's a dangerous path. and they way he said it was "courageous", it seems as if he said it for the applause of the "seculars" and "kewl urban" crowd.

I started what, exactly, all by myself? The practice of putting houses/flats on the market that have a dedicated puja-room or mandir inside them??

Boss, I'm not sure where you live... but every single Hindu household I have visited in India has at least one room, or part of a room, designated as an abode of the devata in residence. Do you seriously imagine that all these people are proscribed from ever selling their homes or flats to anyone else, because of this? I cannot take credit for starting the practice, I'm sorry-- Hindus have been buying and selling their homes, which happen to include mandirs, for as long as they have been living in homes.

Furthermore, there is nothing in any shruti that can be even remotely interpreted as a proscription against this practice ( more importantly, nothing that has been interpreted as such a proscription in any significant smriti produced over the millennia of Hindu tradition.) The fact is, mandirs exist everywhere in a sansara with abundant material components, and are totally contiguous with the material reality in which the Hindu must realize ALL his or her purusharthas. Lakhs, if not crores of Hindu homes that include mandirs appear on the real estate market every single day. Hindu tradition is completely cognizant of the need for property trade and sale to carry on as long as the sanctity of mandirs, as abodes of the divine on such properties, is always respected.

Honestly, the very idea that a property that includes a mandir can never be traded or sold is more reflective of the "Islamic Banking" proscriptions against interest-generating loans, than anything in our own traditions. The only condition is that both buyer and seller must respect the sanctity of the mandir for what it is; and this, apart from the vegetarian preferences of neighbours, is why Hindus prefer to sell their homes to other Hindus, Jainas to other Jainas etc. There is a trust, often unwritten, that whatever the new owners do with the material parts of the house, the sanctity of the divine residence it includes will always be preserved.

Moreover, the shrill notion that "tradeability/saleability/monetary value" itself is something inherently execrable or polluting, ALSO comes 400% from Christian/Islamic/Marxist doctrine (it isn't fair to say "Abrahamic" doctrine here, because the Jews actually happen to be quite sensible about this.) See my blog post here for a more detailed exposition: Rejecting the Dialectic of Western Materialism http://indospheric.blogspot.com/2013/03 ... stern.html

Is not dhana a manifestation of Shakti itself? Are Hindus required to eschew the pursuit of Artha throughout their lives, and is this permanently incompatible with the pursuit of Moksha? Frankly you aren't giving Hindu tradition the slightest fraction of credit it deserves, for its ability to resolve the principles of "tradeability/saleability/monetary value" and divine sanctity... something Hindus have done in a perfectly harmonious manner for thousands of years, you condemn in the manner of some upstart desert preacher.

You *assume*, in exactly the way Christian and Muslim theologians do, that anyone who is interested in buying or selling property will automatically cease to respect the sanctity of holy places. This flies in the face of a reality that is played out, thousands of times, in every part of India every day; it is characteristic of the dehumanization which organized Semitic religions presuppose as a defining trait of the people they want to control. And it is an outright insult to the evolved maturity of a civilization that has managed to resolve these things, in theory and practice, over the millennia.

And lastly, since you seem to have missed the entire point of my post while tearing off on this quite baseless tangent: let me spell it out for you.

I am not making mandir a "tradeable/saleable" commodity by offering for sale a house that includes a mandir. It has been a characteristic of Hindu civilization for all time, that material properties change hands while sanctity of the divine abode (if any) that exists upon them, is always maintained.

I am, however, pointing out that NO Hindu will for any reason buy a flat that, in modern times, does not include a toilet; even if it does include a Mandir. And that is exactly the principle that Narendra Modi has articulated in his statement. If anyone disagrees with Modi's statement on the basis of a claimed "defense of Hindu dharma", let him buy such a flat, that includes a devalaya but no shauchalaya. Otherwise he is a rank hypocrite.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 06 Oct 2013 22:25

http://www.scribd.com/doc/124862767/Who ... ia-in-2014

Very detailed analysis of why Modi will not be PM. It will either Sushma or Arun jaitley or Mamata or Salman Kurshid

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 06 Oct 2013 22:39

^doh! that was written like 11 months back

Shanmukh · Post by **Shanmukh** » 06 Oct 2013 22:41

Muppalla wrote:http://www.scribd.com/doc/124862767/Who ... ia-in-2014

Very detailed analysis of why Modi will not be PM. It will either Sushma or Arun jaitley or Mamata or Salman Kurshid

Let us focus on what humans can do, saar, since we can do nothing about stars. Let us leave the stars to decide afterwards ......