Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 08 Oct 2013 11:46

I think escape velocity is the speed people need go to escape earth gravity. So baba is sending daliths to moon. What more u need vote for US we will send u to moon.

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 08 Oct 2013 11:49

Ramana sir, is it the old one with Heston as hero or the new one.

Shanmukh · Post by **Shanmukh** » 08 Oct 2013 12:17

http://zeenews.india.com/news/nation/sc ... 81767.html

Looke like SC has ordered the ECI to put EVMs with paper trail for next general elections. However, this is just a short news item from Zee, so I would be careful till we read the full judgement. But, if the SC has ordered a full paper trail to be in place by the next general elections, then the development is good, I think. Should cut down the ability to tamper with EVMs.

Okay - added info.
Looks like the court has not actually directed the ECI to put the new mechanism in place. Looks like the court is reserving its orders.

http://ibnlive.in.com/news/election-com ... 3-244.html

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 08 Oct 2013 12:25

He said "please dont punish me for what Sardar (MMS) did in center". This was surprising since its his party sarkar at center.

Next time around he'll be saying Dont blame me for what Pappu did in the center. If he is at odds with what Sardar is doing at the center he shouldn't be fighting on their ticket. But i think in the days to come, many will take this line. And some 'compassionate' fools will buy this line too..

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 08 Oct 2013 12:25

We killed 5 Sangh leaders in TN: Fakruddin

Now I just wait for the report in the MSM, as to how the 5 leaders, were intent on killing Muslims and are better off dead.

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 08 Oct 2013 13:10

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 08 Oct 2013 15:09

They killed because they are Hindu leaders. Bjp is not important only incidental. Any Hindu leader is a fair game.

kapilrdave · Post by **kapilrdave** » 08 Oct 2013 15:44

apoorv wrote:Pappu just said Dalits need escape velocity to succeed in India. Whatever that means.

He is trying too hard to compete with Modi but all efforts are falling flat.

It is very interesting that whenever cocain baby speaks, he speaks like a opposition leader. He will go on for rhetorics rather than highlighting their achievements (real or fake) in 9 years. He still keeps on talking about "banana" like his father. On the contrary, even though NM is a opposition leader, he will not miss any single chance to show and magnify his achievements and his vision. I think he is trying hard to project himself as holier than thou as compared to both MMS and NM. But I doubt this strategy will take him far. This is not India of 20th century. Majority of people value actions more than words. And those who vote for note, will do just that without caring what you speak or do.

Rahul Mehta · Post by **Rahul Mehta** » 08 Oct 2013 15:44

[/b]Rahul Mehta[/b]: why NaMo didnt say a word to support Asaram Bapu, who has done BIGGEST work in blocking Missionaries in tribal\dalit areas in 3 states - Gujarat, Rajasthan, MP

harbans: What has his work against missionaries got to do with rape? Or do you mean that if someone has done something good he is free to rape? What kind of logic are you deploying here?

Trial must be there. And he must be punished. But who should run the trial?

For Asaram Bapu case, I have proposed trial by 500 citizens of Rajasthan between the age of 35 years and 55 years chosen at random from the voter list of Rajasthan. The Jury can listen to both sides . And the Jury may take polygraph, brain mapping or narco-test in public of Asaram Bapu's staff , Asaram, victim's fathers and also the mediamen, who showed allegations as if they were confirmed facts. And then Jury will decide guilt and punishment.

(Aside : Is trial by Jury of 500 possible? Well, Greeks in 600 BC used to have Jury Trials of 50 Jurors to 1500 Jurors to decide the guilt and punishments. The system made Greeks so powerful that Alex with just 50000 soldiers could defeat all kings from Turkey to Yamuna. So if trial by Jury of 1500 was possible in 600 BC, surely it is possible now)

This will be superior or less bad than trial by judges. Why? Because most judges are on payrolls of Missionaries and MNC-owners. Now if you want detailed discussion, pls post on my facebook wall at http://rahulmehta.com/MehtaRahulC . I cant discuss this issue in detail here, as too many BRites are murti-pujak i.e. hayaya-murtipujak i.e. worshiper of Honorable Justices.

NaMo made a statement just one before policemen were to arrest Asaram Bapu that "women in India never make false allegation !!!" , implying that Asaram was guilty as charged, without trial. And NaMo showed no courage to demand Trial by Jury instead of trial by judges in Asaram Bapu case.

Well, left to judges, all saints working Dalits/Tribals will soon land in prison or will be forced to quit. Why? Sorry, I cant explain as throwing mud on judges isnt allowed on BR. But try answering the question why Honorable Chief judge Altmas Kabir gave bail to the Italian Marine murderers? Was it because Italians has threatened Altmas Kabir with any expose in international media? And if Indian judges are afraid of expose in international media, then cant the Missionaries also blackmail them to damage Indian saints working in tribal/dalit areas?

====

Here are exact words and transcripts of NaMo's video on "S first D later". see http://youtube.com/watch?v=XBnbARxdMFg

मित्रो समस्या के समाधान खोजना , ईसके लिए हमारे यहाँ प्रयास नहीं होता है. और इसीका नतीजा है की हम संकटोंमें इलाझे रहते है. यहाँ सेनिटेशनको लेकर बहुत चिंता जताई. जो बहुत स्वाभाविक है मित्रो. इक्कीसवीं सदीमें हम जी रहे है. और आजभी हमारी माताओ और बहनोंको खुलेमें शौचक्रियाके लिए जाना पड़े, क्या इससे बड़ी कोई शर्ममिंदगीकी बात कोई हो सकती है क्या? किसी को भी पीड़ा होती है मित्रो. लिकिन जिस देशमें गांधीजी जीवनभर स्व्च्छता सफाई , ईसके लिए जीते रहे , जीवनभर इनकी प्राथमिकता थी उस देशमें हम इस स्थितिमें है. मित्रो मेरी पहेचन तो है एक हिन्दूत्ववादी की, (दर्शकोकी तालिया) लेकिन मेरी रियल सोच क्या है में आपको बताता हूँ. मैंने मेरे राज्यमें हिम्मतके साथ एक बात कही हें , और लगातार कहेता हु ; जो मेरी छवि है वह यह हिम्मत नहीं करा सकता है ; लेकिन मैं करता हूँ ; मैं कहता हूँ – पहेले शौचालय फिर देवालय (दर्शकोकी तालिया) ; हर गांवमें , हर गांवमें, लाखो रुपयेके देवालय तो है ; लेकिन सौचालय नहीं हें (दर्शकोकी तालिया, लेकिन पहेलेसे कम ) ; मित्रो समाजमें ईस हिम्मत के साथ , और लीडरसकी यहीतो क्वालिटी होती है , (दर्शकोकी तालिया) उसमे हिम्मत चाहिए; समाजकी कठिनाइयो के समय नेतृत्व करनेका सामर्थ्य दिखानेका नए राह पर जानेका हिम्मत चाहिए

====

A careful reading shows that it was pre-planned script. See how NaMo linked sanitation issue with women issue to make it emotionally very appealing to all emotional and gullible women and men. He puts tragedy of women first, and then immediately blamed expensive temples, which would implant a thought in audience that "this lack of sanitation and tragic situation of women is all because of bad bad bad temples !!" And the insult is cleverly worded to look like an objective criticism. NaMo has done a better job at taking potshots on temples, than anti-Hindu activists that Missionaries hire. I expect NaMo to soon support Raghuram Ghazani's plan to seize all the temple gold. And IMO, with one shot, NaMo has killed RJB, KJB and KV issues

And NaMo says that such bold criticism or rather abuse requires courage. Well, why doesnt he show courage to speak against corruption and nepotism in judges? And why doesnt he show courage in talking about how much land churches and wakfs have. eg Why didnt NaMo showed courage to put ALL land ownership records of Gujarat on net, which would have exposed how much land churches and wakfs have? And why doesnt he speak against bungalows give to judges, who can be otherwise given 4 BHK flats and rent the land and use the money for well being of poor.

I find the speech SICKENING and utterly uncivilized, cleverly worded to look like a pearl of wisdom . And I am now OFFICIALLY warning all Hinduwadies --- put your efforts , money(*), energy, time and focus in convincing voters to send necessary orders to MPs via SMS, Right to Recall law-drafts , JurySys law-draft, wealth tax law draft, Hindu Mandir Prabandhak Committee law-draft etc etc etc. Please do NOT sit idle hoping that NaMo will be bring RJB, KJB, KV or combat Missionaries.

(* - when I say money, I am NOT asking you to donate money to Right to Recall Group --- I am asking you to DIRECTLY spend money to give newspaper ad to "ask voters to send orders to MPs via SMS", inform voters about RTR-draft etc etc)

===

Those who defend this pearl of wisdom on "S before D"

You may be having an expensive car or expensive flat. Shall I sell it, and give you rundown Maruti 800 and some 2 BHK, and use the difference to help provide food, nutrition, cloth, education, sanaitation etc to the needy? Why NOT?

You will quickly say "no, I want expensive flat or car for me, and I dont want MY money to go to provide food, nutrition, cloth, education, sanitation etc to the needy?". And you will give elaborate reasons. Well, the same reasons apply on person who donates money to temple.

Temple donors have paid taxes, just as you did. Plus govt get royalties from minerals and rents from govt lands. And the reason why people still dont have food, nutrition, cloth, education, sanitation because Ministers (including NaMo) , IAS, IPS, judges etc spend it on themselves or use it inefficiently. It is NOT because you have good car or 4 BHK flat or because some people donate money to temples. Basically, NaMo is blaming temples to cover his inefficiencies that he could NOT deliver water lines and drainage lines in 12 years of his rule. Just like some CPM leader would blame US imperialism for poverty in WB.

kapilrdave · Post by **kapilrdave** » 08 Oct 2013 15:48

One thing I have missed so far in all NM's speech is that, before 2009 election congi promised to reduce prices of everything in 100 days. They did exactly opposite to that. Why he is not highlighting it? Or is he keeping it for later time?

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 08 Oct 2013 15:50

mail him and you will hear him say it in next speech . he is always open to suggestions

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 08 Oct 2013 15:50

Subramanian Swamy ‏@Swamy39 1m

All this I have done without any office of power or money. Imagine what can be done if I get power and charge of CBI !!

kapilrdave · Post by **kapilrdave** » 08 Oct 2013 16:02

vinod wrote:
Muppalla wrote:http://www.scribd.com/doc/124862767/Who ... ia-in-2014

Very detailed analysis of why Modi will not be PM. It will either Sushma or Arun jaitley or Mamata or Salman Kurshid
This is completely wrong reading of a horoscope. She has just looked at one aspect of the whole chart. Modi's chart has many powerful rajyogas. Raj yogas doesn't necessarily mean becoming PM only. It means good position with respect to power.

Interesting thing in his chart is that Guru aspects the 10th(profession) house which makes him dharmic in his actions. Mangal is in powerful maha purusha yoga called ruchaka yoga. Having said that current dasha-apahara(Moon-Rahu) period is not ideal either. Moreover, sadesaathi is going on. Having said, that it gets aspected by 10th Lord, sun and a powerful Mercury. So, as a hobbyist astrologer, I think he has good chance to make it especially from July onwards. And october-14 onwards antar-dasha of Guru, things really get going for him very well. Sani's antar-dasha then follows and also then Budh's. All powerful players in his chart.

What ever happens, Modi will be a having power. No doubt about that.

So let us wait and see.

Edited: to remove wrong a wrong aspect mentioned.

Any prediction about attempt on his life?

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 08 Oct 2013 16:06

CBI to close disproportionate assets case against Mayawati

First they exonerated the MSY, now they have exonerated Maya. But they will keep on going against the different leaders of the BJP.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 08 Oct 2013 16:09

Is it Mayawati's job to allow leaders to grow for SC. If it is then how about the existence of the Dynasty, that is preventing the growth of the leaders within the INC.

Rahul Gandhi attacks BSP chief Mayawati, says she doesn't allow leadership to grow within Scheduled Castes

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 08 Oct 2013 16:12

krishnan wrote:mail him and you will hear him say it in next speech . he is always open to suggestions

What is his mail id?

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 08 Oct 2013 16:12

its quiet funny, either they are playing along a nice script or shazadha is doing things on his own, on one side he attacks mayawati and another hand CBI lets her go

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 08 Oct 2013 16:13

Narayana Rao wrote:
krishnan wrote:mail him and you will hear him say it in next speech . he is always open to suggestions
What is his mail id?

post in his website, or twitter or fb page

Post Your Thoughts/Comments through Twitter, Facebook or by logging into the Website. You can also send an SMS to 09227411117. Comments will be moderated before posting.

For all of you on Twitter and Facebook: Your posts could be selected and published here! So keep them coming.
- See more at: http://www.narendramodi.in/citizen-wall ... ls67u.dpuf

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 08 Oct 2013 16:22

nageshks wrote:http://zeenews.india.com/news/nation/sc ... 81767.html

Looke like SC has ordered the ECI to put EVMs with paper trail for next general elections. However, this is just a short news item from Zee, so I would be careful till we read the full judgement. But, if the SC has ordered a full paper trail to be in place by the next general elections, then the development is good, I think. Should cut down the ability to tamper with EVMs.

Okay - added info.
Looks like the court has not actually directed the ECI to put the new mechanism in place. Looks like the court is reserving its orders.

http://ibnlive.in.com/news/election-com ... 3-244.html

You are right, we should wait for full judgment, but your 2nd link points to a news report of 4th Oct (the 8th October date is a mistake).

If it is true that VVPAT will be in place before the 2014 general election, then that would be a very positive development.

kapilrdave · Post by **kapilrdave** » 08 Oct 2013 16:35

krishnan wrote:
Narayana Rao wrote: What is his mail id?
post in his website, or twitter or fb page

Post Your Thoughts/Comments through Twitter, Facebook or by logging into the Website. You can also send an SMS to 09227411117. Comments will be moderated before posting.

For all of you on Twitter and Facebook: Your posts could be selected and published here! So keep them coming.
- See more at: http://www.narendramodi.in/citizen-wall ... ls67u.dpuf

I see that someone else posted there exactly what I wrote about 100 days promise just after my post here. Good only. Thanks to whoever did that.

niran · Post by **niran** » 08 Oct 2013 16:43

Pranav wrote: If it is true that VVPAT will be in place before the 2014 general election, then that would be a very positive development.

i hear that EC wanted to go slow hence the word "phased manner" and the consul for EC was very negative on the every EVM with VVPAT system
by 2014, will have to wait for the judgment to be handed down.

BTW i wana ask this,
why does the press gets the chargesheet file before His honorable Judge gets to read it?
is not it an illegal step you leak the file to the media weeks before filing the actual chargesheet?

kapilrdave · Post by **kapilrdave** » 08 Oct 2013 17:09

Rahul Mehta wrote:NaMo is blaming temples to cover his inefficiencies that he could NOT deliver water lines and drainage lines in 12 years of his rule. Just like some CPM leader would blame US imperialism for poverty in WB.

Can you tell me which part of the state has NO water lines and/or drainage lines?

Atri · Post by **Atri** » 08 Oct 2013 17:21

So rahul bhai is back in his magnificent form, eh?

muraliravi · Post by **muraliravi** » 08 Oct 2013 17:33

Looks like the congress-bsp alliance is 99% confirmed. So its history redux, a leader from western india will try and take on the jaichands of the ganga valley belt (mayawati, mulayam, nitish, lalu). unfortunately i think jaichands will have the last laugh.

habal · Post by **habal** » 08 Oct 2013 18:02

Please do NOT sit idle hoping that NaMo will be bring RJB, KJB, KV or combat Missionaries.

this is very important.

My prediction for NaMo is that his selection can go two ways. His massive popularity will be used by MNC's and crony capitalists in India to privatise everything there is and then overcharge. Just like petrol decontrol in India means prices go up while making a pretense of coming down, and usually only before state elections. Reforms in India usually mean just pandering to crony capitalism. NaMo will not be able to reverse that trend. MNC's like powerful govts because it means they just have to subvert that govt to get their stuff done.

Secondly the mob that comes with NaMo could also be highly antagonistic to the idea of composite India. Vajpayee after Graham Staines & family was burnt down had proclaimed that there needs to be a 'national dialogue' or did he say that after Gujarat. This had people in Pakistan and all anti-India elements salivating because a cause celebre against Hindu majoritarianism and Hindu revivalism had been found. The 2 words betrayed an emotion that there was a latent desire of vengeance for reasons perceived or real. NaMo has more EQ than Vajpayee, because he is a product of social media and thus will be expected to not give such easy self-goals.

True change can come with only grassroots level activism combined with leadership change at the top. And grassroots level activism which comes with purity of intent along with a concerned top leadership is only what can create forces of accountable governance in India. As far as Congress is concerned, it is the worst enemy of secular politics in the country. It has killed secular politics and kicked it in the groin as none other. It has also removed the very concept of a centrist govt that gives equal importance to all and is relaxed on ideology as well as religious extremism. It's 84 assault on the Sikhs started a downturn for it's brand of politics from which it has not been able to redeem itself. It corrupted the political, administrative and state law-enforcement agencies for it's own ends. It thus subverted what was until then an India which was not yet clouded by such blatant criminalisation of the state apparatus. The Congress has a cadre today that is uninterested and bereft of ideology. It's Indic leadership is also in same boat. Sonia Gandhi has no concept of Indic ideology or how to sustain secular politics in this country. Rahul in that sense is more indic than Sonia, since he may give it occasional thought, but with the entire cadre divided between aiming at fruits of office or at discrediting secular politics, there is only so much that he can do, even if well-meaning. This is the impression that I get of him. Even in Congress, I smell a section of that party at state level is very much intent on tarring secular politics and is contemptuous of the same. They betray this instincts when they give out ridiculous sound-bytes like 'minorities need not repay bank loans' lol .. that show their utter contemptuousness at the whole idea. This is because of the rotten state of the top leadership and top administration which makes vacuous statements bereft of much reason but openly seen to pander to certain communities. The message that filters down is 'Use and abuse at your convenience', they are like toilet roll.

Rahul Mehta · Post by **Rahul Mehta** » 08 Oct 2013 18:16

Rahul Mehta: NaMo is blaming temples to cover his inefficiencies that he could NOT deliver water lines and drainage lines in 12 years of his rule. Just like some CPM leader would blame US imperialism for poverty in WB.

kapilrdave: Can you tell me which part of the state has NO water lines and/or drainage lines?

The homes which have both water lines and drainage lines sooner or later get toilet inside home, and no longer have to go outside.

The sanitation problem of going out for toilet is only with people who dont have water lines and drainage lines to their homes.

Most slums have no water lines and drainage lines going to homes.

The make shift huts made for landless in rural areas also dont water lines and drainage lines going to homes.

The tents or huts for migrant labor never have water lines and drainage lines going to homes.

The above will add up to some 40% of rural urban as well as rural population.

NaMo blames temples for all this, which is quite a nonsense IMO.

==

Well, the biggest reason is poverty, and poverty is because people are NOT getting the royalties from mineral rights and rents from govt plots (see chap-5 of http://rahulmehta.com/301.htm for MRCM-law-draft by which all citizens can DIRECTLY get mineral royalties and land rent from govt plots) . And why citizens dont get land rent from govt plots? Not because of temples, but because Ministers (including NaMo) are not printing that MRCM draft in Gazette.

And why are water lines are not universal? (a)lack of RTR over Municipal Officers (b) state govt didnt make law to make water meters compulsory. I wonder which temples I should blame for lack of water meters? Or rather Ministers who didnt make this laws in past 12 years or past 65 years.

Following law-drafts , if printed in Gazette, can fix sanitation problem in just six months ---

(1) make water meter compulsory - section-69.23 , this will increase funds to put water lines and also drainage lines

(2) Right to recall inefficient officers in-charge of water/drainage - section-6.12

(3) wealth tax of 0.2% on market value of land/flats for local bodies , minus 25 sq meters per head, so that there are funds - section-25.4

(4) MRCM - chap-5 , this will reduce poverty and thus improve sanitation

(5) Equal allowance system over water - htp://rahulmehta.com/eas01.htm

===

My point is --- the way to improve sanitation is to print the necessary law-drafts in Gazette, not blaming temples the way Missionary-sponsored "activists" do.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 08 Oct 2013 18:17

chaanakya wrote:
SaiK wrote:if modi can make suchalya precede devalaya, !!!

Oh that's in human nature. One goes to sauchalaya before going to Devalaya Hence there has to be a proper sauchalaya with water and not with paper.

arrey O' bhakt! you and I are on the same page. subliminal: In KL, the land of Gods, (there is a huge fight that goes on this alone...but I guess the lords that control temple womb inner perimeter has the leash well controlled for those unwashed app-tools. dunno the case is valid since 20 years before.

sooraj · Post by **sooraj** » 08 Oct 2013 18:25

Modi’s Reach Abroad – Analysis
http://www.eurasiareview.com/08102013-m ... -analysis/

References to Pakistan and the presence of diplomats at Narendra Modi’s public meeting in Delhi recently have led to interest in the BJP prime ministerial candidate’s possible foreign policy. As a chief minister Modi has had an unusually busy external relations portfolio. He has travelled abroad frequently and made Gujarat a key business partner for a host of countries. This has given him a richer foreign policy experience than most peers. It has also given him opinions on priorities of Indian diplomacy.

For instance, he has made the point that a synergy of trade and traditional foreign policy issues is now staring us in the face. Modi is not the first politician to accept this. The question is: If he does get the mandate, will he use his political capital to reorder institutional structures to catch up with current realities? Will he, for instance, take on entrenched turf warriors and push for a merger of the commerce ministry and the ministry of external affairs? To achieve this will require a particularly bull-headed prime minister.

That apart, Modi has made a case for delegating foreign policy to the states. Seen in isolation, this seems puzzling. However, it needs to be linked to Modi’s thrust on domestic prosperity and its inevitable repercussions on economic diplomacy. Here the examples of border provinces such as Gujarat and Punjab may have been on his mind.

Addressing Pakistan at his Rewari public meeting on September 15, Modi said if terrorism were to be curtailed, the two countries could benefit from a sort of peace dividend. He was restating an obvious but under-articulated Indian strategic bet in the past 15 odd years: as India’s economy grows, nations that neighbour India will find it increasingly useful to plug into the Indian system than to fight it.

South Asian economic unity is unlikely to be a one-shot, big-bang process. It is going to be incremental and the role of border provinces will be crucial. That chief minister Parkash Singh Badal, a close friend of Modi’s, is pushing for greater commerce between Indian and Pakistani Punjabs offers a template for pushing to the states what New Delhi may not want to do, or be able to do. It is here that Modi’s years as a chief minister may make him more open to giving states a stake in foreign policy shaping.

Other than neighbouring countries, any future Indian government’s principal focus will be on the vast swathe that begins in Sri Lanka and ends in Sydney, and can be described under a variety of rubrics: Look East, Indian Ocean Region, the Indo-Pacific. Countries such as Japan, Indonesia and Singapore present India big windows as it strives to become an economic and maritime power.

Modi understands this region well. One of his earliest chief ministerial visits was to Singapore. Goh Chok Tong, Singapore’s former prime minister, is a confidant and mentor figure. Japanese investment and technology will be instrumental if India is to become a manufacturing economy. Gujarat, the rare Indian state with a manufacturing story to tell, is almost a strategic partner ofJapan and its primary investment destination in India.

Modi’s visit to Japan in 2012 was very successful but it was his trip to China the previous year that first suggested a change in how big powers were viewing him. Senior Indian political visitors to China meet one or two Communist Party politburo members. Modi met four, in Beijing and in the provinces. High on symbolism, the Chinese gave him a bullet-proof motorcade and motorcycle outriders, previously granted only to India’s president and prime minister. They were conveying a message.

Modi conveyed a message too. He got the Chinese to agree to invest in a greenfield textile facility in Gujarat. He interrup-ted his schedule, took a detour and visited the offices of TBEA Energy to listen to its executives. TBEA Energy was facing obstacles in beginning production at its transformer-making plant in Gujarat. Modi’s speedy intervention impressed the Chinese authorities who saw in him problem-solving qualities. Not that the Chinese don’t see a Modi prime ministry as a poli-tical challenge, they do; but they also consider it an economic opportunity.

The elephant in the room — or studiously outside the room — is the United States. Privately its diplomats concede the visa revocation of 2005 a disaster. Publicly they say they don’t want to do anything now because it would seem like interfering in Indian domestic politics, a weasel-word answer given that the original visa denial was a crass intervention of just this kind.

It has led to a situation where in 2014 India could have a prime minister who enters office with a genuine grievance against the Americans. This is unprecedented. At the peak of the Cold War, even Indira Gandhi and Lyndon Johnson had a honeymoon period.

Unfortunately, American diplomats have not sensed the hardening mood in Modi’s party. Dismissing the visa status and reciting the application case history of a chief minister is one thing. A prime ministerial candidate is another matter. One of these days, a thoughtless remark by a State Department spokesperson could trigger a dramatic response from a BJP functionary. The sad part is one can almost see it coming.

(The writer is Australia India Institute-Observer Research Foundation Chair for Indo-Pacific Studies)

Rahul Mehta · Post by **Rahul Mehta** » 08 Oct 2013 18:27

Pranav wrote: If it is true that VVPAT will be in place before the 2014 general election, then that would be a very positive development.

niran wrote: i hear that EC wanted to go slow hence the word "phased manner" and the consul for EC was very negative on the every EVM with VVPAT system by 2014, will have to wait for the judgment to be handed down.

BTW i wana ask this, why does the press gets the chargesheet file before His honorable Judge gets to read it?
is not it an illegal step you leak the file to the media weeks before filing the actual chargesheet?

Subramanian Swamy refused to ask EC to submit that "if VVPAT isnt there, then we will use paper ballot"

Subramanian Swamy refused to ask the judge to rule that "if VVPAT isnt there, then use the paper ballot"

EC showed one VVPAT machine, and Subramanian Swamy declared his victory and walked out !!

And EC will use VVPAT in say 5% booths and usual EVMs in rest.

So CIA has planted remote controls, then CIA's 15% vote share is now safe.

SS is a wolf dress like a watchdog. SS makes tall speeches everywhere. But inside court, all SS's actions favor Sonia Gandhi, EVM etc etc. eg in 2G case, he refused to ask court to take narco-test of A Raja, Shahid Balwa etc in public. In Sonia Gandhi's fake degree case, the court asked him to accept Sonia Gandhi's apology, and he accepted it and closed the case , rather then demanding 6 months imprisonment for filing false affidavit.

But then, what else would you expect from someone who said that "Sonia Gandhi is like Saraswati goddess" in 1998 and tried to dethrone ABV govt, and then demanded arrest of VHP leaders under National Security Act in 2004.

The paid-media projects him as anti-Sonia. And gullible fall for it.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 08 Oct 2013 18:38

kapilrdave wrote: It is very interesting that whenever cocain baby speaks, he speaks like a opposition leader. He will go on for rhetorics rather than highlighting their achievements (real or fake) in 9 years. He still keeps on talking about "banana" like his father. On the contrary, even though NM is a opposition leader, he will not miss any single chance to show and magnify his achievements and his vision. I think he is trying hard to project himself as holier than thou as compared to both MMS and NM. But I doubt this strategy will take him far. This is not India of 20th century. Majority of people value actions more than words. And those who vote for note, will do just that without caring what you speak or do.

Agree, that he is positioning himself against the establishment. One would think he is like a good clean opposition against a corrupt government.

However, I am not that confident about the election results. INC is like America (Nixon) and Pakistan (miandad), they control and manipulate their resources very well. The UPA alliance partners will start rearing their heads. In most of the non-congress states they seem to have a hold on one regional leaders' balls. They will squeeze or fondle to get the votes. It is evident INC will not win as many seats as last time. So lots of balls will be in play.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 08 Oct 2013 18:39

Rahul Mehta ji,

It is a well-observed pattern for ONLY Hindu religious persons to be named/blamed/shamed about their sexual-escapades in India while hush-hushing similar tendencies in other practicing religions within India. And I for one believe there is a concerted effort to show Hindu religious persons in this light to defame Hinduism.

That said, I remember Shivji's (correct) observation that in a society of a 300+ million families with '000s of years of life-span it is higly possible all kinds of exotic human-relations to exist and some of these might become opportunistic-tools for predatory faith-systems.

I honestly do not know the truth behind Asaram-bapu, but I giving him benefit of doubt being a fellow Hindu. I supported earlier Swamy Nityananda as well from comments of people who don't have time to read any Hindu text first define Hinduism as a version of their prejudices but demand everyone else fit into that definition. Having said that, as a practicing Hindu, it is in Sri Asaram Bapu's best interests that he goes thru this Agni-Pariksha. I wouldn't blame him even if he fails in that test and understand it as his personal failure while appreciating his social-contribution.

Now coming to NM, as a political leader he is similar to a King and he is bound by one and only one thing. That is Dharma. The Dharma of a leader in Bharat is to protect Varna-Ashrama Dharma. The modern equivalent of Varnas, IMHO, are different faiths/dharmas followed by Bharatiyas and modern equivalent of Ashrama, IMHO, are different roles of its citizenry and their respective rights/responsibilities (Health care for Children, Education/Skill-development for Youth, Rule of Law for families, Social Security for old). All this is done by non-nonsense implementation of rule-of-law.

Now please tell us if NM is curtailing rule of law in Gujarat and if he is appeasing one varna for another. If he is not doing, then you must accept that he is a Dharmic leader.

In order to influence the vision, future of Bharat, NM should get into the role of PM so he can influence the respective limbs of governance - Parliament (which enacts constitution and laws), Judiciary (which influences the interpretation of constitution and laws), Administration and Police+Armed Forces (which implements that constitution and laws) including security of territorial, cultural and national identity.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 08 Oct 2013 18:41

Dude log, I do not think NAMO blamed temples. Somebody let the cat among the pigeons in this dhaaga. Do not react to all comments in this dhaaga. Just because one is right in couple of areas does not mean he is right always.

prahaar · Post by **prahaar** » 08 Oct 2013 18:44

habal wrote:
Please do NOT sit idle hoping that NaMo will be bring RJB, KJB, KV or combat Missionaries.
this is very important.

My prediction for NaMo is that his selection can go two ways. His massive popularity will be used by MNC's and crony capitalists in India to privatise everything there is and then overcharge. Just like petrol decontrol in India means prices go up while making a pretense of coming down, and usually only before state elections. Reforms in India usually mean just pandering to crony capitalism. NaMo will not be able to reverse that trend. MNC's like powerful govts because it means they just have to subvert that govt to get their stuff done.

Secondly the mob that comes with NaMo could also be highly antagonistic to the idea of composite India. Vajpayee after Graham Staines & family was burnt down had proclaimed that there needs to be a 'national dialogue' or did he say that after Gujarat. This had people in Pakistan and all anti-India elements salivating because a cause celebre against Hindu majoritarianism and Hindu revivalism had been found. The 2 words betrayed an emotion that there was a latent desire of vengeance for reasons perceived or real. NaMo has more EQ than Vajpayee, because he is a product of social media and thus will be expected to not give such easy self-goals.

True change can come with only grassroots level activism combined with leadership change at the top. And grassroots level activism which comes with purity of intent along with a concerned top leadership is only what can create forces of accountable governance in India. As far as Congress is concerned, it is the worst enemy of secular politics in the country. It has killed secular politics and kicked it in the groin as none other. It has also removed the very concept of a centrist govt that gives equal importance to all and is relaxed on ideology as well as religious extremism. It's 84 assault on the Sikhs started a downturn for it's brand of politics from which it has not been able to redeem itself. It corrupted the political, administrative and state law-enforcement agencies for it's own ends. It thus subverted what was until then an India which was not yet clouded by such blatant criminalisation of the state apparatus. The Congress has a cadre today that is uninterested and bereft of ideology. It's Indic leadership is also in same boat. Sonia Gandhi has no concept of Indic ideology or how to sustain secular politics in this country. Rahul in that sense is more indic than Sonia, since he may give it occasional thought, but with the entire cadre divided between aiming at fruits of office or at discrediting secular politics, there is only so much that he can do, even if well-meaning. This is the impression that I get of him. Even in Congress, I smell a section of that party at state level is very much intent on tarring secular politics and is contemptuous of the same. They betray this instincts when they give out ridiculous sound-bytes like 'minorities need not repay bank loans' lol .. that show their utter contemptuousness at the whole idea. This is because of the rotten state of the top leadership and top administration which makes vacuous statements bereft of much reason but openly seen to pander to certain communities. The message that filters down is 'Use and abuse at your convenience', they are like toilet roll.

Habalji,
Your post is quite important, since it contains the top most reservations raised by NM's opponents. First is about crony capitalism and the second is about Composite India.

If we look at the kind of resources that have been made available to industry in Gujarat, one can always argue if the treatment is too sweet for comfort? Based on open source information, the financial returns in terms of business environment and job creation has been good. Much better than it would be without a concerted policy thrust to make Gujarat business-friendly. The amount of concessions Gujarat government has given can always be questioned with hindsight, but in the prevailing market conditions, they have been reasonable.

Coming to your second point about ABV betraying pent up anger and the desire for revenge with his statement about "national dialogue", I do not fully agree. IMHO, you are ascribing motives to ABV statement which do not necessarily reveal a repressed urge for revenge. If you can provide some more information about that, it will be great. The case of Graham Staines, at least to my knowledge, was a local incident, which happened as a result of local condition. It was not some Pan-India Pan-Hindu revolt that had resulted in the deaths of Graham Staines and his kids. If there is any open source information about the Staines burning being a pre-meditated killing instigated by external elements, it would be good to know.

Whenever BJP is in power, it is a given that pressure tactics like "International outrage" will be used to make GOI go on the backfoot. I hope NM or anyone else leading BJP when the come to power have learnt a few lessons from the past. Actions (like FDI in media) which Congress had successfully avoided in the face of international pressure, NDA succumbed either due to naivete or trying to gain approval from world powers.

Staines, Church-attacks, Chattisingpora, etc. and finally Gujarat. BJP will always be made to "prove" their innocence, NM greatest test lies in that.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 08 Oct 2013 18:50

MSG to modilets: nearing 450 pages, and there is a request in feedback dhaaga to delete this thread. pl justify.. where is the forum guidelines link?

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 08 Oct 2013 18:53

UnReal Times: If Indian celebrities were to set foot on the moon

Garooda · Post by **Garooda** » 08 Oct 2013 18:55

But..but...mummy...mera kyaa hoga?

Congress president Sonia Gandhi wants to retire when she turns 70 in 2016 and this is what has prompted the party to give a 'bigger role' to her son Rahul Gandhi, says a book. She wants to be done with upbringing pappu and wash her hands off so give him a bigger role ? Nice logic and way to screw the country..

In an updated version of his book "24 Akbar Road" (Hachette India), journalist-writer Rasheed Kidwai says the Congress has been rattled by the senior Gandhi's decision.

According to Kidwai, the Congress president shared her mind with senior party colleagues Dec 9, 2012 -- her last birthday.

"Stunned by the announcement -- after all, hardly any Indian politician ever retires -- nervous party leaders requested her to let Rahul 'take charge'," the book says.
"Efforts to persuade the 42-year-old Rahul began but the (the) then (Congress) general secretary dithered. Prime Minister Manmohan Singh once again pointed at his repeated offers to Rahul to join the cabinet."

Manmohan Singh insisted that Rahul Gandhi should choose between a cabinet berth and the formal number two position in the Congress.

"The prime minister conveyed to Rahul that his reluctance to be an effective power centre was hurting both the party and government. Rahul then agreed to opt for organizational work." Chapraasi kaheenka

It was then that Rahul Gandhi was made the Congress vice president at the Jaipur 'Chintan Shivir' Jan 19 this year.

Kidwai says that despite Rahul Gandhi's elevation to the post of vice president, Sonia Gandhi's retirement deadline continues to rattle Congress leaders. "Amid the jubilation at Rahul's anointment as the vice president at the Jaipur session, many in the Congress are still nervous.

"The anxiety stems from their experience of major changes each time a transition in the leadership takes place."

Unamed senior Congress leaders are quoted as saying that the real impact of Rahul Gandhi's elevation would be felt through his policies, planning and style of functioning.

"Sonia Gandhi is seen as too tolerant a person who avoids enforcing discipline but has a knack for winning over adversaries and reaching out to alliance leaders," the book says. Khaak talent? throwing public money and political buyouts is not a talent...

"She also leans left-of-centre on most policy matters. In contrast, Rahul is seen among the ranks as a leader in the Rajiv-Sanjay mould - frank and decisive.

"His thrust on reforms, urban voters, technology,the youth and gender sensitivity may force many party leaders and regional satraps to shape up or ship out."

Rahul Gandhi's style of functioning as party general secretary between 2007 and 2013 and now as the vice president "showed he did not seem in a great hurry or having a fixed plan.

"There were some who thought his way to political power in Delhi was via Lucknow but the assembly polls of 2012 (in Uttar Pradesh) proved disastrous for both Rahul and Congress," which won just 28 seats and came a distant fourth in India's most populous state.

According to the book, Rahul Gandhi -- the Amethi MP -- had "seriously considered becoming the candidate for chief minister but the AICC (All India Congress Committee) shot down the idea".

Kidwai writes: "The question currently being asked in party circles is that how something as important as this was not discussed at the Congress Working Committee.
"Apparently, Rahul's aides cited two reasons why he should not take up any position in Uttar Pradesh.

"One, it is not an easy state to govern. Two, Rahul cannot restrict himself to a particular state or region.

"The argument was that if Rahul identified himself with Uttar Pradesh and if for some reason the voters rejected him, it would affect the party's goal of establishing a government under his leadership in Delhi." Vaise bhi dhobi ka kutta hai..na ghar ka na ghaat ka (maa jo thehri firangi).

According to Kidwai, political exigencies and equations within the Congress are such that Rahul Gandhi cannot be seen as abdicating the prime ministerial post.
Sonia Gandhi's long-term strategy for the 2014 general election and her possible retirement in 2016 hinges upon Manmohan Singh's clean image and good governance plank, the book says.

"By 2014, the Congress, effectively under Rahul, would need to display Manmohan's tenure as exemplary. MSM to the rescue???

"On the other hand, a tainted UPA-II may force the party to sit out as during 1996-2003 when P.V. Narasimha Rao's numerous acts of omissions and commissions had a telling affect on the Congress' fortunes."

archan · Post by **archan** » 08 Oct 2013 19:21

Please maintain decorum in your criticism. What is this about spreading legs?

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 08 Oct 2013 19:22

SaiK wrote:
arrey O' bhakt!

you and I are on the same page. .

I know Saik Garu.

muraliravi · Post by **muraliravi** » 08 Oct 2013 19:23

SaiK wrote:MSG to modilets: nearing 450 pages, and there is a request in feedback dhaaga to delete this thread. pl justify.. where is the forum guidelines link?

450 pages with 90% of it irrelevant to the thread regarding hinduism, dharma, toilets etc..

Garooda · Post by **Garooda** » 08 Oct 2013 19:27

archan wrote:What is this about spreading legs?

Nevermind

Please maintain decorum in your criticism.

Altered and Maintained.