Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Aug 21, 2013

Peregrine · Post by **Peregrine** » 11 Oct 2013 16:34

Pakistan violates ceasefire again

Nothing New! No MFN Status to India!! Same Old!!!

Cheers

member_22872 · Post by **member_22872** » 11 Oct 2013 16:40

We fire, they fire.
we die, we move on,
chalta hain, kya karna we are like this onlee,
firing starts again, we die, we yawn, we move on...life is a bitch for Indians onlee.

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 11 Oct 2013 16:52

http://www.nation.com.pk/pakistan-news- ... anipulator

Gurus, kindly give your views on the above nutty nation editorial. This paper is an ultra-home of Pakistaniat, yet it seems sincere in opposing the pure greens. Under the kabila model, TTP dominance is a natural milestone towards gazwa e hind, yet here we have a devoted GeH paper like Nation acting as though TSP were an imitation of a normal state instead of being a kabila.

Please elaborate on this nuance.

rajanb · Post by **rajanb** » 11 Oct 2013 17:52

venug wrote:We fire, they fire.
we die, we move on,
chalta hain, kya karna we are like this onlee,
firing starts again, we die, we yawn, we move on...life is a bitch for Indians onlee.

VenuG, in my opinion its different:

They fire: We tell the world. We are trying to be biratherly by granting unwanted grants and they are ungrateful wretches. When things get bad we posture aggressively, but mildly, in keeping with our biratherly mindset. About what happens to us we do at times not say everything.

Then, we fire back: We kill, they keep quiet. How can a TFTA be bested by SDRE? Hainji? TFTAs are winners of '47 '65' 71' Kargil et al. (BTW we TFTAs don't know where Bangladesh went. We misplaced it. Even the USS Enterprise could not find it. And even if some of our TFTAs found it, we didn't rape. Ask Google. The meaning of TFTA is that we are into camels, horses and goats onlee.)

And life goes on.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 11 Oct 2013 18:14

KLNMurthy wrote:http://www.nation.com.pk/pakistan-news- ... anipulator

Gurus, kindly give your views on the above nutty nation editorial. This paper is an ultra-home of Pakistaniat, yet it seems sincere in opposing the pure greens. Under the kabila model, TTP dominance is a natural milestone towards gazwa e hind, yet here we have a devoted GeH paper like Nation acting as though TSP were an imitation of a normal state instead of being a kabila.

Please elaborate on this nuance.

KLNMurthy, let me have my 2-paise as a non-guru.

I am not surprised by the editorial in The Nation. It is a TSPA newspaper and TSPA does not like the 'bad Taliban'. The Nation (or the TSPA) is exhorting Nawaz Sharif to act against the 'bad Taliban' and not negotiate with them. The kabila theory is all right, only who is the kabila is under discussion.

Is The Nation saying that the policy followed by TSP of using terror as an instrument of the state wrong ? No. Is it saying that the non-state actors have ruined Pakistan ? No. Is it saying that the nexus between TSPA and the LeT must be terminated immediately and and LeT must be dissolved ? Hell No.

So, it is not opposing the greens. It is opposing a certain green that TSPA opposes.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 11 Oct 2013 18:31

KLNMurthy, Come on boss, that is elementary TSP 101 which should be on the finger tips of every BRite. The nutty nation is a mouthpiece of TSPA/ISI. The terrorists they are talking about are "bad Taliban". TSPA/ISI/RAPE have no qualms hunting down "bad Taliban", and rounding up a few Al Queda remnants, and they get handsomely rewarded. But above all the PR that fetches them, from the whites and their new Delhi clients (MMSJi & Co), namely front all-lie in fighting terror, "TSP is a victim of terror" etc masks their real criminality as SSJi points out above.

Man, one thing good came out of Mala Yosefzai not winning the Nobel piss (it went to some white boys doing Jesus Christs's work of destroying Syria's WMD, of course TSP can keep theirs, because of "threat" from big baaad India:-)). And that is, both the RAPE in TSP and of course, more so in India including WKK cowards would have gone bersek in celebrating that recognition (she still got some EU award) and how terrorism has been defeated yada yada. ISI would have milked that award to the heavens saying how much TSP is agianst terrorism and how euphoric they are yada yada. And Bakara types on UndyTV would have given them a good platform.

This western-led fraud with "useful idiot" Indians as willing collaborators in covering up TSP's crimes is mind boggling. What we are witnessing is history being written by the winners as it suits them.

member_22872 · Post by **member_22872** » 11 Oct 2013 18:41

All this firing exchange nonsense would have ended if only we made a binding principle that one Indian life is too many and the result of one Indian life is we bring the hell to them...this yawning and sipping chai attitude when we loose people is too discomforting...hope our soldiers are trained to pull the trigger zillion times without finger fatigue...just finish them already and carry out the mopping exercises.

They enter by sea, kill 160+, we wait...
we wait...
we wait....
we sip masala chai...and we wait...
they behead our soldiers inside our borders...
we yawn, but we wait...
we wait...
they occupy our posts, we wait...
we wait...
we watch through binoculars, we know they are there...but we wait
we scratch our ball$ and warm our seats...but we wait...

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 11 Oct 2013 19:05

Guys, I don't know if the report is true, Harinder Baweja has a report on HT titled the "mystery" of Keran. She reports that no arms were found, no pigLeT bodies were found. I don't know whether her real aim was to put TSP in good light, namely, Indian army is making much ado out of nothing, or her aim is to mock Indian army, because she says in the report that its troubling that pigLeTs managed to escape taking all their arms etc with them despite being surrounded by Indian army. For those unsuspecting of Harinder Baweja, she is a known terrorist sympathizer, and if I am not mistaken, it is out in the open by her own admission, that she is either married or keeps the pigLeTs in the valley happy, and like Jyothy baby, well-known for covering up TSP's crimes against India and always a doubting Tom to whatever India says

http://www.hindustantimes.com/India-new ... 33735.aspx

member_22872 · Post by **member_22872** » 11 Oct 2013 22:14

Cross-posting from IWT thread, relevant here too:

chaanakya wrote:IB fears attack on Uri-II power project

New Delhi: India’s Intelligence Bureau (IB) has issued an alert that terrorist groups may target the Uri-II project in Jammu and Kashmir as part of their plan to hurt India’s economy.

Pakistan had earlier raised objections to state-owned NHPC Ltd’s 240MW Uri-II project, citing the Indus Waters Treaty of 1960, which regulates the use of water of the Indus river basin by India and Pakistan.

“The IB is fearing a specific terrorist threat on the security of the Uri-II project,” a government official said, requesting anonymity. “We are evaluating the situation.”

The plant is located in Baramulla, which has regularly seen violent clashes between security forces and suspected militants. The work on the project was earlier stalled because of the agitation against the hanging of Afzal Guru, who was convicted over his role in the terrorist attack on Parliament in 2001.

All necessary steps are being taken to counter the threat, an NHPC executive said on condition of anonymity.

Generation and transmission projects have been on the terrorist threat list and have limited surveillance facility. An attack on power plants could cause a collapse of regional grids and lead to a power blackout in states drawing electricity from the targeted grid. The latest threat comes at a time when India plans to increase hydropower generation to meet demand and boost economic growth. With hydropower holding the key to meeting the country’s peak shortage, the government is worried about its shrinking share in the country’s energy basket. Hydropower capacity comprises only 17.6%, or 39,623MW, of India’s installed power generation capacity of 225,794MW. Some 641 hydropower units are running at 184 power stations across the country. “The attack on a project will have a cascading effect,” said Brahma Chellaney, professor of strategic studies at the Centre for Policy Research, a Delhi-based think tank. Responding to a question on India’s preparedness in such cases, Chellaney said, “The answer is obvious. If cross-border terrorists along with Pakistani special forces can carry out such attacks with impunity in Samba and Karen sectors, what does it say about our preparedness? Every couple of weeks, India is taken aback by a fresh attack. Nothing is being done on the porous border issue with Nepal. One needs to have a macro view.” Border tension and terrorist attacks have increased this year with Indian and Pakistani soldiers being killed in apparent tit-for-tat attacks along the Line of Control (LoC) in Jammu and Kashmir, where a ceasefire between India and Pakistan has largely been respected by both sides since it was put in place in November 2003. There have been recent attacks on Indian army camps.

“NHPC is equated to the East India Company in Jammu and Kashmir. This despite the fact that it generates around 2,000MW in the state,” said the government official cited above. “Also, India is synonymous with the army and NHPC in the state.”

NHPC, formerly the National Hydroelectric Power Corp., has a generation capacity of 5,702MW and includes projects taken up in joint ventures. Executing a hydropower project is a time-consuming and tedious process. It includes a thorough survey and investigation, detailed project report preparation, relocation and resettlement of the affected population and infrastructure development. On average, it takes around five years to execute a hydropower project after it is cleared for construction. The power ministry has been raising concerns about the limited security cover provided by the Central Industrial Security Force. At present, there are five regional grids in India, and all of them, except the southern grid, are connected to each other. A grid collapse is the worst-case scenario for any transmission utility. If that happens, states that draw electricity from a particular grid will have to go without electricity.
With India’s worst blackout leaving nearly 620 million people across 19 states and three Union territories without electricity for hours together when the northern grid collapsed on 31 July last year, and, in a wider blackout, the northern, eastern and north-eastern grids broke down on 1 August, states have been working towards so-called islanding.

Defence mechanisms such as islanding isolates the fallout of a grid disturbance on the national power grid, restricting it to a particular region, or allow a particular region or essential service to isolate itself in the event of a grid failure. While the scheme for Delhi has been finalized, the programmes for Punjab, Uttar Pradesh and Haryana are still being completed.

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 11 Oct 2013 22:35

Nothing is being done on the porous border issue with Nepal. One needs to have a macro view.”

What should be the macro view

Because may be some followers of Baudhdha or Mahaaveer could do this since there is no macro view no? and then go to jannat for young boys and houris for pleasure. These are not jannat coveting paki SSG and other rabid dogs thrown across border to terrorize.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 11 Oct 2013 23:09

The good old Pak delusion

October 11, 2013:

India suffers from a long-term diplomatic malady. Whenever a new ruler takes over in Pakistan he is automatically described as a votary of peace, reconciliation and harmony by many Indians and the Indian media.

This happened when generals Ayub Khan, Yahya Khan, Zia ul-Haq and Pervez Musharraf took over, and when Zulfiqar and Benazir Bhutto, and Nawaz Sharif assumed the reins of office. Ayub and Yahya took us to war in 1965 and 1971 respectively, and a combination of Musharraf and Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif inflicted the Kargil conflict (mid-1999, three months after the Lahore Summit with Atal Behari Vajpayee) on us.

This charade was re-enacted when Nawaz Sharif returned to office this year, with many scribes choosing to be highly impressed by Sharif’s claims of being a “changed man”, committed to a new era of peace and friendship with India. Sections of the corporate sector joined the chorus, because of Sharif dangling prospects of enhanced trade and energy cooperation.

Amid all this fanfare, people chose to forget Sharif’s position on the 1993 Mumbai bomb blasts, in which 250 Indians were killed. It is known that Sharif was briefed in Rawalpindi and Skardu about the impending Kargil intrusion, even before he embraced Prime Minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee in Lahore.

Simultaneously, Sharif participated in finalising a “Broader Kashmir Plan” which involved approaching the Afghan Taliban leadership to provide 20,000-30,000 “volunteers” for jihad in Kashmir — a proposal the Taliban agreed to fully support. More importantly, Sharif and his party have remained close to Taliban- and Al Qaeda-linked extremist groups in Pakistan such as the Lashkar-e-Taiba, the Sipah-e-Sahaba and the Lashkar-e-Jhangvi.
Many transgressions

New Delhi chose to rush ahead with plans for a summit meeting despite evidence of a build-up towards greater infiltration across the Line of Control. This led to an escalation of tension and the brutal killing of Indian soldiers, which the Government initially sought to downplay.

What New Delhi has sought to gloss over is that the ceasefire, which had been largely respected for a decade since November 2003, is being flagrantly violated after Sharif took over as Prime Minister. There were 55 violations of the ceasefire in August and 31 in September. More seriously, the shootout in Kupwara has been described as a “mini Kargil”.

The agreement reached at New York to enhance DGMO-level (director-general military operations) contacts suits Sharif just fine, as these are hardly likely to end the infiltration.
Redeeming feature

As winter sets in, infiltration will inevitably decrease. The real issue is whether Sharif and Pakistan’s new army chief will respect the ceasefire and end infiltration after the snows melt in June 2014. .

All this is reminiscent of the escalation in cross-LOC violence when Sharif commenced his second term in 1997. Worse, Hafiz Mohammed Saeed now roams Lahore and Islamabad spewing venom against India, with patronage from Shahbaz Sharif, chief minister of Punjab (in Pakistan).

A redeeming feature of recent developments has, however, been the bluntness with which India was prepared to call a spade a spade when it comes to terrorism sponsored by Pakistan, both at the Washington Summit and the UN General Assembly. Prime Minister Manmohan Singh uncharacteristically asserted: “I explained to President Obama the difficulties we face, given the fact that the epicentre for terror still remains focused in Pakistan.” Pakistan now faces a “three front situation”. Internally, the country faces the prospect of a bloody confrontation with the Tehriq-e-Taliban-e-Pakistan and its Punjabi allies, a festering insurgency in Baluchistan, and escalating ethnic and sectarian tensions in Karachi.

At the same time, Pakistan has opened a second front across the Durand Line by continuing to back the Mullah Omar-led Taliban and the North Waziristan-based Haqqani network.
The response

It has also recently opened a third front by escalating violence across the LOC in Jammu and Kashmir. This is apart from the efforts to spread violence across India using its Lashkar-e-Taiba assets.

India should respond in a calculated and calibrated manner to Pakistani policies. There can be a process of engagement on issues such as people to people contacts, trade, energy and economic relations, and CBMs on issues such as trade and travel cross the LOC. In the meantime, “back channel” contacts can continue on terrorism and Kashmir.

River waters issues should continue to be addressed according to the Indus Waters Treaty and the Sir Creek issue in accordance with internationally accepted principles. Obviously, there is no question of withdrawal from Siachen till a final settlement of Kashmir and delineation of the Actual Ground Position Line.

India’s policies to deal with Pakistan’s Second Front, the Durand Line, should be reinforced through a comprehensive Russia-Afghanistan-India security dialogue, to strengthen Afghanistan’s defence potential and address the security concerns of Russia’s Central Asian partners. Their security is underwritten by Russia through the Collective Security Treaty Organisation (CSTO).

Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Turkmenistan and Tajikistan are threatened by the growing presence of the Taliban, Al Qaeda and the Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan. India should initiate a direct dialogue with the CSTO. Iran’s President Hassan Rouhani recently described the emergence of Taliban and Al Qaeda as American-sponsored “catastrophes”.

India’s diplomatic efforts regionally and globally should aim to aggressively isolate and shame Pakistan as the epicentre for terrorism in its neighbourhood.

Lilo · Post by **Lilo** » 12 Oct 2013 00:08

Peregrine wrote:Chemical weapons watchdog wins Nobel Peace Prize Despite Terrorististan's "NO HOLDS BARRED" Publicity Campaign!

Cheers

Despite being the favourite, Pakistan’s Malala Yousafzai did not win the prize but in the run-up to the announcement, the 16-year-old won the hearts of people around the world. Malala over the course of the last week appeared on several television channels and not only advocated her cause of education for all, but also projected a positive image of Pakistan.

In a recent interview on CNN, Malala Yousafzai said she wanted to become the prime minister of Pakistan to cheers from the live audience. “I think it’s really good because through politics I can save my whole country.”

Malala was also celebrated back home in Pakistan where she was praised for her efforts, as people pledged that they would continue to support her. Bakhtawar and Bilawal Bhutto Zardari on Twitter advocated for her to become Pakistan’s prime minister, while the country’s current Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif called her the pride of Pakistan and a national asset.

The Chairman of the Nobel Peace Prize Committee described her as an exceptional young woman with a bright future. He added that Malala could be nominated for the award next year and the year after that{Nobel piss prize my a** !! }

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 12 Oct 2013 00:12

Indian military accusations unfortunate, provocative: Kiyanahi
Lipstick on Piglip

RAWALPINDI: Reacting to recent statement by Indian military leadership accusing the Pakistani army of supporting terrorism, army chief Ashfaq Pervez Kayani on Friday termed the allegations as “unfortunate, unfounded and provocative.”Speaking to a group of military officers at the General Headquarters in Rawalpindi, the Chief of Army Staff Gen Ashfaq Pervez Kayani said Pakistan was also concerned about the continued Indian violations at the Line of Control (LoC), the heavily militarized border dividing Kashmir between the two countries.According to a press release issued by the military’s public relations wing, Kayani said the ceasefire at the Kashmir border was proposed by Pakistan and agreed upon by both countries in 2003. He said that “rather than hurling such baseless accusations, India would be well advised to respond positively to Pakistan's suggestion for holding joint or impartial investigation into the LoC incidents, preferably by the United Nations.”The Pakistan army, he said, was exercising restraint but the same should in no way be used as a pretext for “leveling such baseless allegations that vitiate prospects of regional peace.”The “Pakistan army is fully supportive of the peace process initiated by the government,” the statement quoted him as saying.Pakistan and India regularly accuse each other of violating the ceasefire agreement at the volatile Kashmir border. Earlier on Friday, Pakistani officials said a child was killed and three people wounded after Indian troops fired mortars across the disputed border.There has a recent uptick in reported clashes and cross-border firing incidents from both sides of the LoC

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 12 Oct 2013 03:31

SSridhar wrote:
KLNMurthy wrote:http://www.nation.com.pk/pakistan-news- ... anipulator

Gurus, kindly give your views on the above nutty nation editorial. This paper is an ultra-home of Pakistaniat, yet it seems sincere in opposing the pure greens. Under the kabila model, TTP dominance is a natural milestone towards gazwa e hind, yet here we have a devoted GeH paper like Nation acting as though TSP were an imitation of a normal state instead of being a kabila.

Please elaborate on this nuance.
KLNMurthy, let me have my 2-paise as a non-guru.

I am not surprised by the editorial in The Nation. It is a TSPA newspaper and TSPA does not like the 'bad Taliban'. The Nation (or the TSPA) is exhorting Nawaz Sharif to act against the 'bad Taliban' and not negotiate with them. The kabila theory is all right, only who is the kabila is under discussion.

Is The Nation saying that the policy followed by TSP of using terror as an instrument of the state wrong ? No. Is it saying that the non-state actors have ruined Pakistan ? No. Is it saying that the nexus between TSPA and the LeT must be terminated immediately and and LeT must be dissolved ? Hell No.

So, it is not opposing the greens. It is opposing a certain green that TSPA opposes.

SSridhar and CRamS, thanks for both your responses. I posted because the editorial didn't "feel" right, and I have been a watcher of TSP Anglophone media for many many years now. I'll try to tease out why I am uneasy / intrigued, in light of both your responses.

What struck me, I think, is the no-nonsense, straightforward quality of the prose, that could have come from the editorial pen of any quality English newspaper in a "normal" country. That is to say, the subtext is that of a sensible editor of a sensible paper in a more-or-less normal and sensible country admonishing its leader to do the right thing. But the reality is, we are talking about nutty Nation of Majid Nizami (?) fame in TSP. As you both noted, it is inconceivable that TSPA has turned overnight into a hater of ultra-greens. As CRamS jabbed, this is elementary TSP 101; so, ouch, but sure, that's correct, however that's not what bothered me.

1. Let's look at the logic of the content: does TSPA really need Nawaz Sharif to move against TTP? Not in terms of will and capability, and they obviously don't need his permission or "orders", but more likely as a way to manage the popular aftermath. IOW, if TSPA estimated (probably correctly) that TSP public sentiment is in favor of TTP, then they would rather not risk being blamed by the public for attacking their Islamic heroes; very likely the lessons of what happened to Musharaf due to Lal Masjid attack did not go unlearned.

2. Then, there is the public face: sounding "normal", using "normal" language (contrast with the half-witted ravings of S.M. Hali, or the turgid nonsense of Maleeha Lodhi, or the tenuous syntax of any number of second- and third-rate writers with high ranks to their names). I am used to TSPA mouthpieces writing crap, and writing it crappily. But this editorial, to me, represents a new capability level in the propaganda arm of TSPA, something at a higher skill level than the tiresome, by-the-numbers phoned-in quality of the usual "TSP is victim of terrorists onlee" whine that we have learned to shelve in the right place.

I think the TSPA mouthpieces and RAPEs try constantly to wrap their crap in reasonable-sounding prose, but never quite make it, mainly because you can't really hide the smell of crap by wrapping it. But this editorial manages to not sound like crap, because, for once, it is actually communicating a genuine message (1 above) and therefore the package(2 above) also comes out right. (As Kalidasa pointed out, "vaagardhaaviva sampRktau etc... or, the words match the meaning inextricably).

The upshot is that Pakis now have a way to say, we want to fight the terrorists, and almost sound like they mean it, if they quickly gloss over the nuance that what they really mean is to put Nawaz Sharif into the front lines as the bakra who gets the blame. But neither the Amrickety Unevens nor our own entire chattero-political establishment will have the ability or the intent to spot the catch.

I think all this adds up to a further level of trouble for India, since we will be under even more pressure to "help" Nawaz "fight" the terrorists, but help in a way that doesn't really involve us actually fighting any terrorists, but instead actually surrendering to them. Because packie RAPEs are sincere-onlee.

So, what do you-all think? New threat, or more of the same?

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 12 Oct 2013 04:11

Night Watch For the night of 10 October 2013

Pakistan: Musharraf update. Pervez Musharraf was arrested one day after having been granted bail. "We have put General Musharraf under house arrest in a case involving a military operation on an Islamabad mosque," Muhammad Rizwan, a senior official of the Islamabad police told reporters. "We will present him before a court on Friday.";

Comment: The latest charges stem from a prolonged violent standoff in 2006 and 2007 that was centered on the Red Mosque in Islamabad. Two extreme imams who were brothers, their armed militant supporters and students at the collocated school complex defied the government and called repeatedly for its violent overthrow and replacement by an emirate applying a severe interpretation of Sharia. The imams encouraged the students and armed militants to destroy property, kidnap people, abuse women in public, and attack government buildings. Using the Red Mosque as a base, they also supported armed insurrection in the tribal agencies of northwest Pakistan. Some 6,000 students attended the two madrassahs in the complex, which allegedly also trained militants. The standoff culminated in early July 2007 after a militant attack on the Ministry of the Environment building. Army special forces and paratroopers executed the operation to end the standoff which resulted in the death of one of the imams and 100 others, including 50 armed militants. Some 600 male and female students were held hostage, and were rumored to be in danger of execution when troops stormed the complex. Of all the things of which Musharraf has been accused, his handling of the Red Mosque insurrection least justifies his arrest. His arrest on this issue indicates some powerful political, judicial and religious interests want satisfaction, want to prevent his departure from Pakistan and are working hard to find a charge that will keep him in Pakistan. This charge will not stand.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 12 Oct 2013 07:14

Mushy has to be kept in Poaqland otheriwse Talib will have no chance of doing him Zibha. Sooner or latter, Qalandar Qadri spirit is bound to seize one of his Body Guard to become claimant of Mushy's Body Part and earn the place in Jannat.

ArmenT · Post by **ArmenT** » 12 Oct 2013 11:21

Earlier this week, TTP's head honcho, Hakimullah Mehsud, gave a rare interview to BBC. Today, it emerges that US forces had captured his close confidante, Latif Mehsud (no relation), around a week ago.

From the BBC:
Pakistan Taliban commander 'seized in US operation'

US forces have captured a senior Pakistan Taliban commander, Latif Mehsud, in a military operation, the state department has confirmed.

Spokeswoman Marie Harf described Latif Mehsud as a "terrorist leader" and a "senior commander" in the Tehreek-e-Taliban Pakistan.
...
She said he was a close confidante of the group's leader, Hakimullah Mehsud, who this week gave a rare interview to the BBC about possible peace talks.
...
The arrest took place about a week ago, the official said.

Latif Mehsud was reportedly returning from a meeting to discuss swapping prisoners.

Looks like National Birds will be paying visits very shortly.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 12 Oct 2013 14:33

KLNM, "Does TSPA really need Nawaz's permission to attack the 'bad' Taliban" ?

They would not have, prior to 2002. But, times changed after 9/11 and Musharraf's 'perceived capitulation to the US'. Though Musharraf invoked 'Hudabaya' in his speech to the nation to explain away why he chose to be with the US in GWOT, it did not cut much ice with the masses, the Taliban and the Punjabi Taliban (at that time, there was no TTP). Musharraf's (and the TSPA's by extension) popularity plummetted. To add to his woes, the capture of leading Al Qaeda figures from within Pakistan by combined ISI, CIA teams and being taken away kicking and screaming to CIA detention centres, created more problems for Musharraf and TSPA. Gen. Musharraf, who was widely welcomed in 1999 and whose popularity increased after the Kandahar IA hijack, suddenly faced resistance from the masses. To reverse the ebbing tide, to overcome the resistance within his TSPA units themselves (remember the TSPA units refusing to fight the Taliban, surrendering to them in droves etc ?), and under pressure from the MMA partners, Musharraf struck several 'peace deals'. TSPA faced humiliation in FATA but news was stifled and it only trickled to the outside world in bits and pieces. In a public ceremony, Nek Mohammed openly declared that “Pakistan's authority has become a thing of the past; now the Taliban will rule” and the brave and martial-race XI Corps Commander, a Lt. Gen., simply nodded. But, the jihadist islamists, buoyed by the repeated surrender of the TSPA, decided to up the ante and march on to Islamabad. If you have been watching, and I am sure you have been, TSPA sought a similar approval from the Pakistani National Assembly in 2007-2008 when the Taliban were moving rapidly towards Islamabad after conquering Bajaur, Swat etc. There was enormous pressure on the TSPA from the US and its allies to act tough and act immediately but the TSPA waited until a resolution was passed.

Why does the TSPA need such an approval ? There are many reasons, IMHO. One could be that the TSPA might fear that if they take on the jihadists, the situation could spiral out of control in "core Pakistan" which means the Punjab which is the stronghold of the Punjabi Taliban such as HuJI, SSP, and LeJ. The LeT of the TSPA, though it is also located in West Punjab, is no match for the Punjabi Taliban. The second could be that the TSPA itself could be afraid of the reprisal. GHQ, ISI HQ, Sargodha, Kamra, Taxila, Tarbela SSG, Badabar, Karachi Naval Base . . . none of them has been safe. Top Generals have been easily targetted and assassinated. These affect the 'corporate interests' of the Corps Commanders. They have to make money during those few years they are really at the very top. They cannot jeopardise that through a prolonged and useless internal insurgency. While a war with India brings enormous benefits to TSPA officers, it brings noting but misery in a war with the jihadist islamists. Three, there is also a dichotomy that TSPA faces. Apart from the lack of economic benefits, there is a religious angle to taking on the jihadist Islamists. There is not even a 'martyr' tag when inevitable death follows fighting the jihadists. The soldiers, officers, and commanders and their families aren't even sure if the dead TSPA soldiers go to jannat or jahannum because they are doubtful if they are truly 'fighting in the way of Allah' (jihad-fi-sabilillah) or not. That's the biggest difference. TSPA does not even want to take on the jihadists. They seek a partner in their procrastination. If Kayani (or his successor) takes a decision to fight the jihadist Islamists, he automatically becomes wajib-ul-qitl. Why should a sane General invite such surefire retribution ? Don't you remember Gen. Kayani refusing to condemn the actions of Qadri ? He said that he did not publicly condole with Punjab Governor Taseer's family because there were too many soldiers in the ranks who sympathised with the killer. Four, the TSPA would also need a scapegoat in case things go wrong, which TSPA might fear would invariably happen. Your assessment that 'managing popular aftermath' needs some sort of 'approval' is correct, I would say.

But, then, why are they demanding Nawaz Sharif to take a 'bold decision' to attack TTP ? The Nizami newspaper specifically targets only the TTP. They are doing a sort of 'Kargil' on NS once again. They know that the closet jihadist NS would not take on the TTP. The TTP has clearly warned that West Punjab would become an inferno. PML-N itself accommodates all terrorist organizations of the Punjab, such as LeT, SSP, HuJI, LeJ and JeM. The TSPA is secure in their thought that NS would never ask the TSPA to fight the jihadists. So, by asking NS to decide the issue, the TSPA appears to the external world to be under civilian control, appear to the Pakistani masses as reluctant to take on the jhadist Islamists and all the while seeking a scapegoat if eventually a 'green signal' (pun intended) is given to the TSPA to fight the internal enemy. NS bravely said that the Armies of other countries were under civilian control and so the TSPA wants him decide now. That is the refrain from TSPA.

So, why did the TSPA mouthpiece, The Nation, write such an editorial ? It reflects the dilemma of the Army. The top commanders might want to give a quick pasting to the TTP for all the atrocities that it has done against the TSPA. It has been mocking at the 'best army in the world' (Kiyani's words) for about seven years now. It is mortified by the repercussions as well. Musharraf cleverly designated the TTP as 'bad Taliban' and had an agreement with the Americans to target them using drones. As protests arose within Pakistan, he played the usual double-game of overtly branding the drones as 'violation of Pakistan's sovereignty' while covertly egging on the CIA to increase their frequency and supplying all target coordinates of the 'bad Taliban'. He did not want to commit the TSPA directly against the 'bad Taliban' except when the situation went well out of control. Kayani is playing the same double-game on NS, who, as we all know suffers from an attention-deficit syndrome.

The trouble for us would be that as NS strikes a deal with the TTP, a clause of the deal would be that TTP must help the state of Pakistan in the eastern front. That has multiple advantages for Pakistan just as it had in c. 1989 with the mujahideen.

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 12 Oct 2013 16:48

SSridhar wrote:Night Watch For the night of 10 October 2013

Pakistan: Musharraf update. Pervez Musharraf was arrested one day after having been granted bail. ....in a case involving a military operation on an Islamabad mosque

Although I have no love lost for that fellow-dilliwallah, by arresting Musharraf for his much-delayed military action on the kendo-styx sistahs and momeens-in-drags, the new paki government (headed by the dyed-in-wolf top dog Nawaz Sharief) has unwittingly played its hand by terming this action as illegal and should be now seen as a supporter of the radical islamists. There should be no doubt now among the western governments that "democrats" that run pakiland (no matter which political party they may belong to) have chosen their side in the war against terrorists!

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 12 Oct 2013 17:11

SSridhar wrote:KLNM, "Does TSPA really need Nawaz's permission to attack the 'bad' Taliban" ?

They would not have, prior to 2002. But, times changed after 9/11 and Musharraf's 'perceived capitulation to the US'. Though Musharraf invoked 'Hudabaya' in his speech to the nation to explain away why he chose to be with the US in GWOT, it did not cut much ice with the masses, the Taliban and the Punjabi Taliban (at that time, there was no TTP). Musharraf's (and the TSPA's by extension) popularity plummetted. To add to his woes, the capture of leading Al Qaeda figures from within Pakistan by combined ISI, CIA teams and being taken away kicking and screaming to CIA detention centres, created more problems for Musharraf and TSPA. Gen. Musharraf, who was widely welcomed in 1999 and whose popularity increased after the Kandahar IA hijack, suddenly faced resistance from the masses. To reverse the ebbing tide, to overcome the resistance within his TSPA units themselves (remember the TSPA units refusing to fight the Taliban, surrendering to them in droves etc ?), and under pressure from the MMA partners, Musharraf struck several 'peace deals'. TSPA faced humiliation in FATA but news was stifled and it only trickled to the outside world in bits and pieces. In a public ceremony, Nek Mohammed openly declared that “Pakistan's authority has become a thing of the past; now the Taliban will rule” and the brave and martial-race XI Corps Commander, a Lt. Gen., simply nodded. But, the jihadist islamists, buoyed by the repeated surrender of the TSPA, decided to up the ante and march on to Islamabad. If you have been watching, and I am sure you have been, TSPA sought a similar approval from the Pakistani National Assembly in 2007-2008 when the Taliban were moving rapidly towards Islamabad after conquering Bajaur, Swat etc. There was enormous pressure on the TSPA from the US and its allies to act tough and act immediately but the TSPA waited until a resolution was passed.

Why does the TSPA need such an approval ? There are many reasons, IMHO. One could be that the TSPA might fear that if they take on the jihadists, the situation could spiral out of control in "core Pakistan" which means the Punjab which is the stronghold of the Punjabi Taliban such as HuJI, SSP, and LeJ. The LeT of the TSPA, though it is also located in West Punjab, is no match for the Punjabi Taliban. The second could be that the TSPA itself could be afraid of the reprisal. GHQ, ISI HQ, Sargodha, Kamra, Taxila, Tarbela SSG, Badabar, Karachi Naval Base . . . none of them has been safe. Top Generals have been easily targetted and assassinated. These affect the 'corporate interests' of the Corps Commanders. They have to make money during those few years they are really at the very top. They cannot jeopardise that through a prolonged and useless internal insurgency. While a war with India brings enormous benefits to TSPA officers, it brings noting but misery in a war with the jihadist islamists. Three, there is also a dichotomy that TSPA faces. Apart from the lack of economic benefits, there is a religious angle to taking on the jihadist Islamists. There is not even a 'martyr' tag when inevitable death follows fighting the jihadists. The soldiers, officers, and commanders and their families aren't even sure if the dead TSPA soldiers go to jannat or jahannum because they are doubtful if they are truly 'fighting in the way of Allah' (jihad-fi-sabilillah) or not. That's the biggest difference. TSPA does not even want to take on the jihadists. They seek a partner in their procrastination. If Kayani (or his successor) takes a decision to fight the jihadist Islamists, he automatically becomes wajib-ul-qitl. Why should a sane General invite such surefire retribution ? Don't you remember Gen. Kayani refusing to condemn the actions of Qadri ? He said that he did not publicly condole with Punjab Governor Taseer's family because there were too many soldiers in the ranks who sympathised with the killer. Four, the TSPA would also need a scapegoat in case things go wrong, which TSPA might fear would invariably happen. Your assessment that 'managing popular aftermath' needs some sort of 'approval' is correct, I would say.

But, then, why are they demanding Nawaz Sharif to take a 'bold decision' to attack TTP ? The Nizami newspaper specifically targets only the TTP. They are doing a sort of 'Kargil' on NS once again. They know that the closet jihadist NS would not take on the TTP. The TTP has clearly warned that West Punjab would become an inferno. PML-N itself accommodates all terrorist organizations of the Punjab, such as LeT, SSP, HuJI, LeJ and JeM. The TSPA is secure in their thought that NS would never ask the TSPA to fight the jihadists. So, by asking NS to decide the issue, the TSPA appears to the external world to be under civilian control, appear to the Pakistani masses as reluctant to take on the jhadist Islamists and all the while seeking a scapegoat if eventually a 'green signal' (pun intended) is given to the TSPA to fight the internal enemy. NS bravely said that the Armies of other countries were under civilian control and so the TSPA wants him decide now. That is the refrain from TSPA.

So, why did the TSPA mouthpiece, The Nation, write such an editorial ? It reflects the dilemma of the Army. The top commanders might want to give a quick pasting to the TTP for all the atrocities that it has done against the TSPA. It has been mocking at the 'best army in the world' (Kiyani's words) for about seven years now. It is mortified by the repercussions as well. Musharraf cleverly designated the TTP as 'bad Taliban' and had an agreement with the Americans to target them using drones. As protests arose within Pakistan, he played the usual double-game of overtly branding the drones as 'violation of Pakistan's sovereignty' while covertly egging on the CIA to increase their frequency and supplying all target coordinates of the 'bad Taliban'. He did not want to commit the TSPA directly against the 'bad Taliban' except when the situation went well out of control. Kayani is playing the same double-game on NS, who, as we all know suffers from an attention-deficit syndrome.

The trouble for us would be that as NS strikes a deal with the TTP, a clause of the deal would be that TTP must help the state of Pakistan in the eastern front. That has multiple advantages for Pakistan just as it had in c. 1989 with the mujahideen.

SSridhar, thanks for the analysis; who says BRF doesn't add value any more?

So, here's my takeaway, see if that makes sense:
* I see TSP operating in a version of the mughalai model--in which vassals, militias, "rebels" etc. are handled by the central ruler with a combination of intrigue and treachery on all sides, the risk being that the treachery would spin out of control and cripple or fatally undermine the central authority.
* TSPA is currently stymied all around in that in itself, it can neither dominate the ultragreens, nor can it directly carry forward Gazwa-e-Hind (GeH).
* It won't be too worried about GeH, since, in time (given the kabila model), ultragreens and TSPA will merge de facto and GeH can move forward then.
* In the meantime, badmash and RAPEs can soften up India by plugging into the same mughalai meme that also prevails in the Delhi dynastic rule, effecting some kind of de facto "reversal of partition", making the Indians think they have "won" something. This is the part that worries me the most, since everyone across the indian spectrum harbors a desire for such a "win," which is really a Trojan Horse. At that point, when India is thoroughly re-mughalized, it only takes a single hard push to knock over the Red Fort and complete the cultural genocide that was interrupted by the maratha rebellion.

At some level, I don't care too much about TSPA and its troubles / antics. What I fear though, is that the Nation editorial represents a new capability level in this Trojan Horse penetration that is going on.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 12 Oct 2013 17:14

Pakistan Army Chief Supports Dialogue with Taleban - Straits Times

Pakistan's powerful army chief General Ashfaq Kayani said the army supports the government's policy of dialogue with the Taliban to end the insurgency wracking the country.

I did not expect to be vindicated so quickly. Praise be to Allah.

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 12 Oct 2013 17:17

SSridhar wrote:Pakistan Army Chief Supports Dialogue with Taleban - Straits Times
Pakistan's powerful army chief General Ashfaq Kayani said the army supports the government's policy of dialogue with the Taliban to end the insurgency wracking the country.

So, what was the Nation editorial all about then?

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 12 Oct 2013 17:21

Here's a new (old) one from al-bakistan.

Iran urged to build bakistan side of gas pipeline also.

Al bakistan has asked Iran to construct the bakistani side of the gas pipeline as well because international sanctions were preventing slumabad from raising funds for this project

also urged him to help remove the restrictions that prevented better trade ties between the two countries

The Iranian side of the $7.5 billion project is almost complete, but bakistan has run into repeated problems in paying for the 780-kilometre section to be built on its side of the border.

Wait, it gets better!

Mr Dar, who met the Iranian minister on the sidelines of the annual World Bank and IMF meetings in Washington, also discussed with him options for going around these sanctions for promoting bilateral trade.

What!!? So, the paki minister, while meeting the World Bank and IMF with a begging bowl is now asking his Eyerainian counterpart to figure out a way to circumvent sanctions imposed by the very people he is begging from. But this one takes the cake:

Mr Dar also asked Mr Tayyebnia to address the issues that prevent “trade between the two neighboring countries from flourishing

So, as always and once again, "its not us, its you" disease that has struck the bakis. If you (the "begee") want to give to us (the beggar), then it will behoove you to find creative ways in giving to us.

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 12 Oct 2013 17:33

nternational sanctions were preventing slumabad from raising funds

All this after taking loans from world bank?

How do these people create pakistaniyat for decades?

going around these sanctions

Yes doing exactly that.

A catch is Iranians agree to this pakistaniyat and make a deal with pakistaniyat. This time pakis are taking Iranians for a ride, along with usual sanctions-ignoring fund-raising blame game, and such and such odours of pakistaniyat on sidelines of annaul IMF/WB meetings.

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 12 Oct 2013 17:38

And, in an ironic way, a word from the tellibunnies on the "malalalala diss" by the Nobel Piss Kammitee:

Thanks be to allah and joo kufars

Taliban ‘dance with joy’ - Malala missed out on Nobel

The Baki Taliban said on Friday they were “delighted” Malala Yousufzai missed out on the Nobel Peace Prize

She did nothing big so it’s good that she didn’t get it

This award should be given to the real Muslims

Malala is against Islam, she is secular

“her struggle against Islam” was the reason the West was honoring her.

And by that logic, the annual Nobel Piss Prize should only be given to true muslims because, after all, islam is the "religion of P..."

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 12 Oct 2013 17:42

vishvak wrote:A catch is Iranians agree to this pakistaniyat and make a deal with pakistaniyat.

Desperate times require desperate measures. One has to deal with the devil under such conditions. The irony is that its hard tell which one is the devil in this case.

member_22872 · Post by **member_22872** » 12 Oct 2013 21:13

I Don't know why Malala was even considered for Nobel, but seems like nobel for peace are cheap these days...Taliban are enjoying too soon, she could be awarded next year.

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 12 Oct 2013 21:23

venug wrote:I Don't know why Malala was even considered for Nobel, but seems like nobel for peace are cheap these days...Taliban are enjoying too soon, she could be awarded next year.

The brits, I believe, pushed her case. Remember, she was blogging for BBC. clicky hiyar

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 12 Oct 2013 22:10

For once Bakara makes sense

http://www.hindustantimes.com/editorial ... 34058.aspx

This keeping LoC hot and Kashmir on the boil is Kiyani's strategy which is now obvious. Talk about piss, but keep punching India until it talks Kashmir which we all know means somehow finding a way to hand over the valley.

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 12 Oct 2013 22:42

Jhujar wrote:Mushy has to be kept in Poaqland otheriwse Talib will have no chance of doing him Zibha. Sooner or latter, Qalandar Qadri spirit is bound to seize one of his Body Guard to become claimant of Mushy's Body Part and earn the place in Jannat.

The Lal Masjid incident was a big landmark in consolidating TTP against TFTAs. Since a mosque was attacked and worse still since the relatives of many Purer Green were affected, it enraged them and catalyzed them. Nawaz and the courts are now trying to get on the good books of the talibs by first acquitting Lal Mullah and then by holding Mushy on charges of attacking the Lal Masjid. Think of it as appetizer appeasement (with main course to follow yet). They would have thought letting Mushy go would have been a "provocation" for the talibs.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 12 Oct 2013 23:46

FIA directed to expedite probe into treason case against Musharraf
Qalandar Qadri Quietly Qital Qaro

ISLAMABAD: Minister for Interior Chaudhry Nisar Ali Khan Saturday said the FIA has been directed to accelerate investigation into treason case against former military ruler General (retd) Pervez Musharraf and present the report at the earliest. He said Musharraf's name was on Exit Control List (ECL) and it would not be removed till the court's decision.The former president is currently seeking a bail in Lal Masjid operation case after being granted bail in three other cases and his lawyer said on Wednesday he was cleared to leave the country.Assassination of former prime minister Benazir Bhutto, death of Baloch nationalist leader Nawab Akbar Bugti and detention of deposed Supreme Court judges were the other three major cases registered against the former military ruler.The statement has come on the anniversary of a Musharraf-led military coup d'état that overthrew an elected government of Nawaz Sharif on October 12, 1999.The Supreme Court on July 3 had disposed of petitions calling for registration of a treason case against the former military strongman and directed the government to continue approaching the matter in light of its official statement presented to the court.The government had in its statement said that it would proceed in accordance with the law and prosecute Musharraf for treason under Article 6 of the Constitution — after taking the political forces into confidence.Interior Minister Nisar was briefing reporters after chairing a meeting, which was attended by officials of interior ministry and its attached departments.

Harish · Post by **Harish** » 13 Oct 2013 00:08

Dont know where else to post this crap. Mods please move or delete if inppropriate.

Here is a giant British farticle comparing Malala to a "prophet."

I admit Malala was shot and bravely overcame that. Great. But, is it just me, or do you also think all this adulation being heaped on this girl is way, way over the line?

Sample this:

She talks with the fierce clarity of a prophet, and observing her calm, resolute gaze is the nearest we will come to knowing what Joan of Arc looked like when she declared: “I am not afraid. I was born to do this.”

Really? The world is full of brave people who go about their lives purposefully under very difficult situations. Why is this girl exceptional? Or are the Brits so shitscared of Islam they will grasp at anything to suck up to the Muslims? I hope they realize none of this will buy them brownie points in the Muslim world.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 13 Oct 2013 00:15

Harish,

Please go back and read mine and others' posts. This Malala shit smack of colonialism, racism, opportunism, you name it. Its nothing but fraud, and west is very adept at this kind of propaganda. They will pick a Malala here or a Mandela there or a Gaaandi etc and make a huge song and dance about their egalitarianism, their compassion, you name it. It makes me puke. Now not to be left behind we have our RAPE to deal with following the west in this hero worship. But the one that takes the cake is TSP RAPE milking Malala for all its worth about how they are "victims of terror". As I said, the whole thing smacks of fraud.

Dipanker · Post by **Dipanker** » 13 Oct 2013 01:00

Top 10 Most Hated Persons in Pakistan

Malala is 4th in the list, #1 is Dr. Shakeel Afridi who was instrumental in pinpointing Bin Laden location.

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 13 Oct 2013 01:18

The funny thing about TFTAs is that they declare themselves subservient to Civilian decisions vis-a-vis the taliban but have taken over Balochistan and Nukes without ceding an inch to the civvies. If dialog is a good solution to make peace with purer green, surely it is also a good idea to engage the Baloch?

This is nothing but brown-panted downhill ski.

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 13 Oct 2013 01:18

The funny thing about TFTAs is that they declare themselves subservient to Civilian decisions vis-a-vis the taliban but have taken over Balochistan and Nukes without ceding an inch to the civvies. If dialog is a good solution to make peace with purer green, surely it is also a good idea to engage the Baloch?

This is nothing but brown-panted downhill ski.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 13 Oct 2013 01:29

Anujan wrote:...........

janab, plz check PM.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 13 Oct 2013 04:06

NightWatch For the night of 11 October 2013

Pakistan: Update. A local court ordered Musharraf remanded in custody for 14 days, pending further proceedings in the murder case connected with the Red Mosque.

Comment: At the time the remand order was made, the Islamabad High Court rejected a petition for Musharraf's name to be added to the Exit Control List, which would prevent him from leaving the country. That is a strong indicator that the murder charges will be dropped because the government wants Musharraf to return to self-imposed exile. He will not stand trial, but he must leave Pakistan. He remains under house arrest in his villa which the courts designated a temporary sub-jail.

Agnimitra · Post by **Agnimitra** » 13 Oct 2013 04:22

Whoa! Sorry if already posted:

Muslim law doesn’t apply to Jinnah, Hindu Law does -- says daughter

In the dispute over the palatial Jinnah House in south Mumbai, Dina Wadia, the only daughter of Mohammad Ali Jinnah, has stated before the Bombay High Court that her father is not governed by Islamic succession laws, but by Hindu customary law instead.

The building in question, blessed not only with history but also location — facing the sea from the posh Malabar Hill — is currently valued at Rs 300 crore.

In 1947, when Jinnah left India for Pakistan, the Government had taken it over as "evacuee property". However, Dina had remained behind in Mumbai, having been disowned by Jinnah. Now 88 years old, she lives in the United States. After a series of legal moves, Dina Wadia filed a writ petition before the Mumbai High Court in 2007, claiming that Jinnah House could not be classified as "evacuee property", as her father had died without leaving behind a will. So, she went on to claim, all his properties, including Jinnah House, devolved to his successors.

The trouble was that under Muslim succession law, Jinnah's property would devolve to a long list of family claimants, only one of which was his daughter. This meant that even if Jinnah House was not "evacuee property", Dina Wadia would have to share Jinnah House with other relatives of her father.

To overcome this, her lawyer Fali Nariman has stated in court that Jinnah, as a Khoja-Shia, was not governed by Muslim succession law, but by Hindu customary law — in which intestate succession is to the daughter alone. To establish this, Nariman has relied on a long line of cases where the Indian Supreme Court has held that Khoja-Shias are governed by Hindu customary law. Khoja-Shias, like many Muslim communities in India, have traditions that are a mix of Islamic and Hindu rituals.

The ₹300 crore "Jinnah House" should be taken over as state property and maybe a public park built there or something.

Peregrine · Post by **Peregrine** » 13 Oct 2013 04:25

On Again - Off Again!

LNG import : SSGC to get PPRA’s approval for gas terminal contract

ISLAMABAD : The Ministry of Petroleum and Natural Resources has refused to seek approval of Public Procurement Regulatory Authority (PPRA) for award of liquefied natural gas (LNG) retrofit terminal contract to 4Gas Asia and has instead asked Sui Southern Gas Company (SSGC) to approach the PPRA for its nod.

Cheers