AP Politics and runup to 2014 General elections

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 12 Oct 2013 07:26

so, Jagan and Shriya, huh?! never saw that coming. is there any truth to it?

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 12 Oct 2013 08:03

No Union Territory status for Hyderabad: GoM

The Group of Ministers (GoM), set up to look into issues concerning the bifurcation of Andhra Pradesh, ruled out the possibility of declaring Hyderabad as Union Territory in its first meeting held Friday.

The Cabinet had declared Hyderabad as joint capital of Telangana and Seemandhra for 10 years.

Finance Minister P Chidambaram and Defence Minister A K Antony missed the meeting, which also discussed financial packages for Seemandhra that is likely to include tax concessions and a special grant for backward regions.

The meeting was chaired by Home Minister Sushil Kumar Shinde.

In a statement released after the meeting, the Ministry of Home Affairs (MHA) said the GoM discussed the modalities to carve out Telangana while keeping in mind to address relevant issues and concerns with fairness and objectivity. "The GoM would take opinion of stakeholders on all important subjects while formulating its recommendations," the statement added.

"The next meeting of the GoM will be held on October 19," said an official, adding the government was serious in bringing the Andhra Pradesh re-organisation Bill at the earliest.

The GoM also ruled out imposition of President's rule in the state despite violent protests.

Sources claimed the GoM has decided not to visit Andhra Pradesh in order to have a fair and impartial view.

The Home Ministry is also learnt to have invited suggestions from the public on the bifurcation through e-mails.

After the meeting, Shinde said: "The basis of all discussions and decisions of GoM will be the Srikrishna Committee's report."

The GoM, however, is of the view that the people and government of Seemandhra shall decide on the new capital for their state instead of the Centre thrusting their decision on them, said officials.

In the coming days, the GoM, besides determining the boundaries of Telangana and the residuary state of Andhra, will also look into legal and administrative steps to ensure that both states function efficiently from Hyderabad.

****************************
Constitution of a Group of Ministers (GoM) for the bifurcation of the State of Andhra Pradesh and formation of a new State of Telangana.

The Composition of the GoM, as approved by the Prime Minister, will be as Under:

Shri Sushilkumar Shinde,
Minister of Home Affairs
Shri A. K. Antony,
Minister of Defence
Shri P. Chidambaram,
Minister of Finance
Shri Ghulam Nabi Azad,
Minister of Health and family welfare
Shri M. Veerappa Moily,
Minister of Petroleum and Natural Gas
Shri Jairam Ramesh,
Minister of Rural Development

Preamble
Group of Ministers (GoM) constituted to addresss all the issues that need resolution at the Central and State Government levels in the matter.

Terms of reference
(i) Determine the boundaries of the new State of Telangana and the residuary State of Andhra Pradesh with reference to the electoral constituencies, judicial and statutory bodies, and other administrative units;
(ii) look into the legal and administrative measures required to ensure that both the State Governments can function efficiently from Hyderabad as the common capital for 10 years;
(iii) take into account the legal, financial and administrative measures that may be required for transition to a new capital of the residuary State of Andhra Pradesh;
(iv) look into the special needs of the backward regions and districts of both the States and recommend measures;
(v) look into the issues relating to law and order, safety and security of all residents and to ensure peace and harmony in all regions and districts consequent to the formation of the State of Telangana and the residuary State of Andhra Pradesh, and the long term internal security implications arising out of the creation of the two States and making suitable recommendations;
(vi) look into the sharing of the river water, irrigation resources and other natural resources (especially coal, water, oil and gas) between the two States and also inter-se with other States, including the declaration of Polavaram Irrigation Project as a National Project;
(vii) look into the issues related to power generation, transmission and distribution between the two States;
(viii) look into the issues arising on account of distribution of assets, public finance, public corporations and liabilities thereof between the two States;
(ix) look into the issues relating to the distribution of the employees in the subordinate as well as All India Services between the two States;
(x) look into the issues arising out of the Presidential Order issued under Article 371D of the Constitution Consequent to the bifurcation; and
(xi) examine any other matter that may arise on account of the bifurcation of the State of Andhra Pradesh and make suitable recommendations.

Feedback
gom-mha[at]nic[dot]in
***************************

There will be , most likely no Seemandhra. New State will be Telangana and remaining part may continue to be called Andhra Pradesh. So they will inherit the legacy and brand image of Andhra Pradesh.
Andhra Pradesh Reorganosation Bill will have clauses dealing with all the above issues. Hence speculation on status of 371D is premature.

Since it is a fait-accompli I hope people of residuary State of Andhra Pradesh accept it gracefully and work towards betterment and take this opportunity to chuck out the corruptest politicians that Indian State has ever produced and make Andhra Pradesh a Clean State. And if possible unite across the caste divisions for development.

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 12 Oct 2013 12:34

If division happens then there will be further division of Rayalaseema and coastal Andhra in few years time. After this Rayalaseema may not want to join with anything else. Even otherwise mafia is creating a potential fighting point in the new capital. With Hyderabad gone there will be insistence to create capital in coastal area and rayalaseema may not accept it. A new ground for infighting amoung Telugu people. Divide and rule.

vivek.rao · Post by **vivek.rao** » 12 Oct 2013 16:01

devesh wrote:so, Jagan and Shriya, huh?! never saw that coming. is there any truth to it?

One friend from AP told me that Jagan was busy with some actress when YSR crashed into hills. Jagan was unhappy and reluctant to leave the place with his sweetheart

Another sure who it was but looks like he has few heroine crushes

Rony · Post by **Rony** » 12 Oct 2013 17:11

chaanakya wrote: ****************************
Constitution of a Group of Ministers (GoM) for the bifurcation of the State of Andhra Pradesh and formation of a new State of Telangana.

The Composition of the GoM, as approved by the Prime Minister, will be as Under:

Shri Sushilkumar Shinde,
Minister of Home Affairs
Shri A. K. Antony,
Minister of Defence
Shri P. Chidambaram,
Minister of Finance
Shri Ghulam Nabi Azad,
Minister of Health and family welfare
Shri M. Veerappa Moily,
Minister of Petroleum and Natural Gas
Shri Jairam Ramesh,
Minister of Rural Development

So all Neighbouring states of Andhra pradesh are being represented in dividing Andhra Pradesh except Andhra Pradesh. It is already perceived in Andhra as a treaty of versailles.

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 12 Oct 2013 23:12

Female stories are first time I am hearing. Basically Jagan is a big criminal type person who may not behave like a normal corrupt politico. Those who are joining him are not really knowing what they are getting.

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 12 Oct 2013 23:22

Jagan is polished is all. Rest he is another mafiaso.

TDP leaders like Naidu mistreated in dilli and con race government in AP can't do anything??

Jagan and Con race in AP leaders are already doing their drama in AP so can't treat this as versailles as jgan Mafia and AP con race are part of government.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 13 Oct 2013 02:54

Just watch out. A lot of money will be spent to cool off these agitations and make the split happen. It will be India's loss. This region does not need any central assistance and it has enough skills to grow and has pretty good infrastructure. Good governance is all that is needed to multiply growth. In the name of pacification, a lot of money that could be spend on other needy will be unfortunately spent on AP. All in the name of dividing the state.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 13 Oct 2013 05:46

Hope the cyclone brought the people a little closer to each other.

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 13 Oct 2013 06:18

Not going to happen. Politicos of mafia will never try for peace and try to cheat people. Next round of agitation is around.

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 13 Oct 2013 06:58

Caste politics played by Kangress in AP goes awry

http://www.epw.in/system/files/pdf/2013 ... radesh.pdf

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 13 Oct 2013 09:00

Don't remember who mentioned it. But there was a comment that Telugu film industry is dominated by a single caste.

I am reading the biography of Katragadda Murari = "Navvipodurugaaka Naketi siggu". It explains the reasons behind that phenomenon. And that caste genuinely deserves that domination, IMHO.

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 13 Oct 2013 12:36

The title explains everything.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 13 Oct 2013 19:48

Some of that family were my classmates. Very pioneering group in film distribution. They made lotof money and lost equally. Started in distribution to financing. Wasn't it Navayuga Films?

Dasari · Post by **Dasari** » 13 Oct 2013 19:53

Muppalla wrote:Just watch out. A lot of money will be spent to cool off these agitations and make the split happen. It will be India's loss. This region does not need any central assistance and it has enough skills to grow and has pretty good infrastructure. Good governance is all that is needed to multiply growth. In the name of pacification, a lot of money that could be spend on other needy will be unfortunately spent on AP. All in the name of dividing the state.

If you are referring to money or perks that congress high command use to buy off their local leaders, then i agree. But it is myth to asuume that Congress will pour lot of money into AP infrastructure. They may cheat people of SA with lot of fake promises that have no constitutional guarantee. The last three states that got divided are yet to get their compensation even afer 11 years.

The central govt cannot afford to pay this compensation. A Rs 100.000 crore outlay in the form of food security bill that impacts entire nation took so many years to bring consensus, and it accelerated the rupee's decline to all time low. Some of the figures of compensation are as high as Rs 600,000 cores, and i doubt whether they can get even Rs 60,000 crores over 5 years. The next govt has no obligation to implement fake packages promised by Congress. However, Congress will try to show how the new govt cheated people of AP and how their govt would have built the new capital as promised to win back Seemandhra in 2019 elections. So don't expect much from Center, and the people of SA are on their own. How quickly they build trust between Rayalaseema and Andhra regions, and rise above the two dominat castes dictates the speed of recovery. I expect a long road ahead - with next 5 years being the worst.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 13 Oct 2013 20:01

ramana wrote:Some of that family were my classmates. Very pioneering group in film distribution. They made lotof money and lost equally. Started in distribution to financing. Wasn't it Navayuga Films?

Yes. They were one of the key groups in RECW and Kakatiya Medical college.

In 40s this family seems to have sustained the communist movement. They owned Navayuga films and invested in all prjanatyamandali fields - publication, movies etc. They seem to have sheltered communist leaders all over Bharat during British and later Indian ban on the party.

Those connections with communist party is what made them untouchables in congress till NTR came on stage and brought them into power.

It is their communist connections that gave them unique access/control of film industry. They also majorly owned the healthcare sector since 1930s.

My appreciation for that community went up by a notch.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 13 Oct 2013 21:24

They had an import-export firm which dealt with FSU trade. And it was backed by highest political connections to channel it thru known entity.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 13 Oct 2013 21:31

Yep. That book also gave insight into the role of Vijayawada in independence movement. Looks like it is a business+political network of east-India, stretching from Chinnai to Kolkata. And Vijayawada section is the key financier of that network.

This may explain the T-decision by congress to an extent. It is an effort to separate the interior regions from the control of this network? Coincidentally congress lost political control of this coastal network in past few years. TN is controlled by Amma, WB by didi and AP by Jagananna.

Looks like today's fissures in NTR family (between TDP and INC factions) is an extension of this. Especially due to marriages between opposing interest groups.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 13 Oct 2013 21:35

Last part is true. NTR married his daughters to up his status without realizing there are competing interests among the in-laws who are mostly outlaws!

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 14 Oct 2013 05:49

I agree that there no money in Delhi to give to AP. Chattisgarh got some 500 cr instead of promised 15k cr. so nothing may come. If there is no support then there will be serious anger which politicos will exploit. I foresee lot of unemployment, stagnation etc for all kinds of people to exploit. Naxals in all 3 regions, Islamic activities with Pakistan illegal people in Hyderabad. NAC fellow must be feeling happy.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 14 Oct 2013 08:37

Narayana Rao wrote:I agree that there no money in Delhi to give to AP. Chattisgarh got some 500 cr instead of promised 15k cr. so nothing may come. If there is no support then there will be serious anger which politicos will exploit. I foresee lot of unemployment, stagnation etc for all kinds of people to exploit. Naxals in all 3 regions, Islamic activities with Pakistan illegal people in Hyderabad. NAC fellow must be feeling happy.

Pure fear mongering. The state(s) will do better and they are self sufficient to even rise from ashes.

ShyamSP · Post by **ShyamSP** » 14 Oct 2013 08:55

Muppalla wrote:
Narayana Rao wrote:I agree that there no money in Delhi to give to AP. Chattisgarh got some 500 cr instead of promised 15k cr. so nothing may come. If there is no support then there will be serious anger which politicos will exploit. I foresee lot of unemployment, stagnation etc for all kinds of people to exploit. Naxals in all 3 regions, Islamic activities with Pakistan illegal people in Hyderabad. NAC fellow must be feeling happy.
Pure fear mongering. The state(s) will do better and they are self sufficient to even rise from ashes.

Congress is moving its "Adda" to Hyderabad which can serve as their second Capital for Mafia activities in case Delhi falls.

Split and take over Hyderabad and its ready-made money. They also are moving some hedge money in the name of "IT" projects.

For this reason I have to somewhat agree with Narayana Rao. They'll have to keep tab of rebels and resistance to their activities and will use their favorite tools.

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 14 Oct 2013 10:19

INC will not "shift base" to Hyd. it would be the worst thing to happen to MIM and similar dreamers. at this point, they don't want INC to make this region headquarters. that would be disastrous to their long term plan of reinventing the Nizam State.

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 14 Oct 2013 15:43

The IT projects sanctioned to Hyderabad do not make any sense. Mafia has some deeper plan? Very big investment approved just like that. I do not know.

Atri · Post by **Atri** » 14 Oct 2013 18:12

How about Berlin solution? Hyderabad will be split and "east hyderabad" will serve as capital of SA. All those who wish to travel from SA to east-Hyd for administrative work will be subsized.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 14 Oct 2013 19:39

Atri, There is some thought along those lines: Old Hyderabad with Charminar etc to Telangana and Secunderabad to Andhra. But then another idea is Old Hyd and new Cyberabad along same lines.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 14 Oct 2013 19:47

This bifurcation is not happening swiftly and that is the game INC is playing. They will never introduce either a resolution in assembly nor one in parl. To beat this game someone needs to start a capital war (Vizag Vs Vijayawada Vs Ongle Vs Nellore Vs Karnool) etc.

Regarding loot, separation, wealth etc., we need to go deeper. I watched a Telugu movie called "Seetamma vaakitlo sirimalle chettu". After looking at the infrastructure, I thought this movie is too choosy about nice village roads etc. Relangi village etc are all delta but the lush green with nice well laid roads etc,.seems an overdo. But during the cyclone couple of days ago, when then started showing the villages as remote as Srikakulam and having similar imagery the movie pics does not seem to be artificial.

To me AP is a developed state and everything about backwardness is either posturing using selective stuff or pure hashish bases bullshit. Over the past two decades they did lobby a lot with central government and got more than their share as compared to any other state. In addition, they have the great pull related to private sector investments. Inspite of all the strife, it grabbed a lot investment. Vizag in another decade will be as big as Hyd in terms of infrastructure irrespective of it being capital or not.

Even now "allah ke naam pe de de baba" give me 1 to 4 lac crore to do state bifurcation and all the buildup of inevitability of split and central/private funding/investments is a ransom based money grab operation. Even if there is loot, the state is also getting developed.

Other than politics, everything else is bs as far as this AP split is concerned. BJP is just sooper duuooper foolish. Unless they expedite this split they will be in for a huge problem if they form their government.

They have now put a stranglehold - To keep united fund the Telangana regional council so that the parties has enough loot to stop agitation. If they split fund again the other side. Without funds splitting is not going to happen. 10 year common capital is another sinster thing.

We really need to put all these things on table. Sonia G did a bhasmasura avatar for sure irrespective of the negative stuff we keep hearing.

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 14 Oct 2013 20:00

What is role of foreign embassies opened in Hyderabad if any; or any facilities extended selectively by embassies. May be OT here.

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 14 Oct 2013 21:46

ramana wrote:Atri, There is some thought along those lines: Old Hyderabad with Charminar etc to Telangana and Secunderabad to Andhra. But then another idea is Old Hyd and new Cyberabad along same lines.

Atri ji,

read the above carefully, and between the lines. you will see the obvious. I've pointed it out before several times.
our old friend Ashok Gottipati knew what he was talking about. it's not CT.

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 14 Oct 2013 22:05

also, there is a problem with definition of "new Hyd". one section is in the extreme North-West. the Airport sector is in extreme South.

according to that definition, the West+NW+SW/S will have to go to Kosta. the NE+E+SE/S will go for Telangana.

this is turning out to be a lot of fun! as the details of the division emerge, we start to see the real instincts behind the "telugu variki telugu rashtram".

VenkataS · Post by **VenkataS** » 15 Oct 2013 02:22

Muppalla wrote: To me AP is a developed state and everything about backwardness is either posturing using selective stuff or pure hashish bases bullshit.

I do not believe that AP is a developed state even in the Indian sense of the term. The statistics do not support that assertion. For example in per capita GSDP at current prices in 2009-10 it is a middling state (15th amongst 32 states).

In terms of literacy rates AP is one of worst performing states in the whole of India:
http://censusindia.gov.in/2011-prov-res ... apter6.pdf
In 2011 AP had a literacy rate of 67.66 (which makes it 31st amongst 35 states and UTs) with the Indian average at 74.04. Female literacy rate in AP is below 60% and in terms of male literacy rate, AP is 33rd among 35 states and UTs in the list.

In many other social indicators AP performs poorly with respect to the other southern states. Whatever the imagery with respect to the movie that you refer to or the roads in Srikakulam show, the statistics do not support your claim that AP is a developed state in Indian terms.

There is a need for concerted effort on many different fronts to improve these social indicators and to surcharge the economy. Unfortunately, with the split occupying most of the space in the media for the past several years these things are not even being discussed.

Indian states GSDP per capita at Current Prices in 2009-10. Data taken from:
http://pbplanning.gov.in/pdf/Statewise% ... %20G.R.pdf

Rank State GSDP-Per-Capita
1. Goa 148136
2. Delhi 129746
3. Chandigarh 118136
4. Puducherry 88158
5. Haryana 80759
6. A&N Islands 75836
7. Maharashtra 74027
8. Sikkim 68731
9. Gujarat 63549
10. Tamil Nadu 63547
11. Punjab 62605
12. Kerala 60264
13. Uttarakhand 59316
14. Himachal 56706
15. AndhraPradesh 52814
16. Karnataka 52191
17. Nagaland 49465
18. Arunachal 48662
19. Meghalaya 45006
20. Mizoram 43467
21. West Bengal 41837
22. Tripura 39949
23. Chhattisgarh 35121
24. Odisha 34361
25. Rajasthan 34042
26. J&K 33665
27. Madhya Pradesh 28571
28. Assam 27464
29. Manipur 27332
30. Jharkhand 27132
31. Uttar Pradesh 23392
32. Bihar 17064

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 15 Oct 2013 02:26

Muppalla, Looks like even TSP is getting ready for AP division wants a share of Hyderabad hearts and mind. They want to open a permanent visa camp office.

Rony · Post by **Rony** » 15 Oct 2013 02:39

Muppalla wrote:To me AP is a developed state and everything about backwardness is either posturing using selective stuff or pure hashish bases bullshit.

What is it that you are smoking Muppalla garu

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 15 Oct 2013 03:31

TSP wants AP divided so it should not be done
US wants AP divided so it should not be done
Naxals want AP divided so it should not be done
Chidambaram wants AP divided so it should not be done
Sonia wants AP divided so it should not be done

Oh well.. if it is done then Hyd need to be with SA and Telangana should have Warangal as capital
If that position is untenable then let Telangana have the old city and SA get new developed part of the city.
If that position is untenable then let Telangana assure to "all Indians" they give special quota to outsiders and even bigger quota to people from SA.

But nothing to address legitimate grievance of Telanganas and urge to continue the charade keeps on going.

Puki demands sound more reasonable than these idiotic demands/suggestions.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 15 Oct 2013 03:34

Rony wrote:
Muppalla wrote:To me AP is a developed state and everything about backwardness is either posturing using selective stuff or pure hashish bases bullshit.
What is it that you are smoking Muppalla garu

I don't smoke anything and I wish if I am smoking, I would have perfectly solved is with a menacing speed

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 15 Oct 2013 04:28

Satya_anveshi wrote:TSP wants AP divided so it should not be done
US wants AP divided so it should not be done
Naxals want AP divided so it should not be done
Chidambaram wants AP divided so it should not be done
Sonia wants AP divided so it should not be done

Oh well.. if it is done then Hyd need to be with SA and Telangana should have Warangal as capital
If that position is untenable then let Telangana have the old city and SA get new developed part of the city.
If that position is untenable then let Telangana assure to "all Indians" they give special quota to outsiders and even bigger quota to people from SA.

But nothing to address legitimate grievance of Telanganas and urge to continue the charade keeps on going.

Pukis sound more reasonable than these idiots.

Who are the idiots? The forum members who don't like the division or the all the four crore non-Telangana but Telugu speaking folks? Or is it just you belong to some divine group and hence you have to right to call every one else as idiot.

There are common folks on both sides and there are vested interests on both sides. Agreed that the vested interests on the side of non-T are more powerful, scandalous and ruthless businessmen but you often take your brush and just paint everyone as black. What difference is there between your line of talk and what TRS chief KCR says. The lines of what KCR, Raj T etc say will not happen at all in India in this era and they will remain as stray dogs only and nothing else. People will at the end of the day will freely buy or sell properties and live where ever they want except off course in J&K. Even if it is genuine there is no practical way to rollback to 1946 and then provide a J&K mechanism to Telangana. This unnecessary hatred is better to be avoided.

Regarding Telangana's legitimate grievances, what else can be done? The state is being formed. Hyd is also part of T inspite of all the hangama going on. The T folks should focus on getting their rights in the right fashion and they should fight with central government. The unnecessary vengeance against those who you will live next to or due to 100s of year of relations they will live in the midst of you. You just cannot be "I hate to see your face" kind of psychology and try inventing new history as some different race from them. Same skin color, same food habits and same naming conventions (last name first name) and same caste names. Offcource the name of language you speak is called Telugu too.

How the hell you will even be different even if you try to be. We have seen the history of the world and wherever someone tried to invent an identity that does not exist it perished or it became rotten to the core.

Let us not get worked up too much and read it as it is happening and see how it evolves. The fight is won by T folks so far.

Another important thing is that it is often compared with division of states such as MP, UP or Bihar. They were never created by means reorganizing pieces from other states. AP is one of those states that was not even there before 1950. Multiple pieces from different states of that time are combined with several acrimonious fights and several agreements. The agreements does not just include the gentlemen agreement with Nizam-T. For example Anantapur district wanted to be with Karnataka and not with AP. Neelam Sanjeeva Reddy was mollycoddled with some assurances (again a typical non-binding gentleman's agreement) Now the people of all those districts who were told informally (typical gentleman agreements) and formally (article 371 clauses of 1971). All these are also grievances.

Someone is rich does not mean he will give away his wealth. If that is the case there are no need of even international boundaries or defense budgets or even governance boundaries or even need for revenue collection. a truly krutayuga moment

. What is going on and the things that we are seeing ugly are the unraveling of the First SRC agreements plus 1971 guarantees of Indira government. India's governance is always chaotic and hence we see chaos.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 15 Oct 2013 05:03

VenkatS, your ranks are nothing and there is no apples to oranges comparison there. Include states like Goa, Delhi, Chandigargh and what not and compare with big state like AP. City states Vs huge state. These numbers only blind us from reasonable reality. Why a top literate state with zero water/resources problem like Kerala is only few ounces ahead? With no real strife and a great attractor of investments why is Karnataka below AP? What is Modi's magic as he is not even capable to grow Gujarat more than Andaman or Pondicherry.

The real states with meat that can be counted above AP in that list are TN, MH, GUJ which has all sorts of similarities. It is not the comparison that is important. May be my statement of developed state is bit exaggeration. Someone on the twitter made a right statement when he said if not for CBN this state is truly a BIMARU state and compare to that status with the current AP. It may have patches of backwardness but with the manufactured wealth and created infrastructure (except the power) it is well on its path to become a developed state.

The context in which I made the above statement is these off-repeated statements like the residual AP will lose jobs because of split, all the investment was in HYD hence they will lose their lives, loss of revenue etc. All these statements are like "allah ke naam pe de de baaba. Kam se kam Hyderabad ko de de baba". Pure bs.

Forget this crap discussion called T and HYD for a while and put the 13 districts and see how they are linked and the resources that they have. In addition add the personal wealth that exists with the people there. Allow them to grow with freedom and it will not take more than five years to be on top of that list. Had this "ras mae haddi/paanakam lo pudaka" did not have happened in this decade, AP may have been on the top three list there even as undivided state.

My point is the last 2.5 decades since the second NTR/CBN government started in 1996. The AP's 42 MP contingent is always part of the central government and were key to the survival/governance. There may be a lot of loot but there was also investment hitherto was not on such scale. Using these influences, apart from the Jewel in the crown such as Hyderabad, they did have the following:

The so called non-T districts are all covered by multi lane highways (thanks to ABV) and also feeder highways. If you remember the village roads effort of ABV government, think who grabbed most and again AP is in the top of the list. Once YSR loot started again all the water resource utilization projects are on top speed. Add to this the emergence of tri-City corridor of Vizag-Bhimili-Anakapalli with a proposed ring-road on the lines of HYD ring road. Don't forget to add the Petro corridor of Kakinada being built. I just skipped the financial pull of Vijayawada-Guntur-Tenali.

If the so called poor-state of non-T AP is formed, tell me which state can boast of having four airports of decent to mid size (Rajamundry, Vijayawada, Tirupati and Visakhapatnam). If Hyd has defense establishments, Vizag has Eastern Naval command. With ports, off shore drilling, oil and gas reserves are we kidding ourselves about backwardness of this junk state?

And the delusional T folks think that all these cut-throat wealth will not alter the T-life style.

after the state is formed. Whom are we kidding? this is purely a Sonia manufactured political stunt and the monkeys on both sides are doing the monkey drum roll.

What I bet is this wealth, jobs, revenue discussion is nothing but a ploy to grab more while getting divided. to build a capital or build few more ring roads in couple of tri-cities and more water resource management stuff. A lot of contracts to grab too.

A while ago Ramana garu wrote a small post. The central congress is actually vexed of CBN, YSR and all because of constant grab of central resources on a priority basis.

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 15 Oct 2013 06:35

after so many pages, if we had to distill and find the gist, this is it (at least for me):

1. root cause: fracture of elite geographic spread (K's and V's).

2. political background which led to issue going all the way to Lok Sabha: one central party became paranoid of regional strongmen; the other was never a big player but ended up loosing even the potential strong-ground to regional party for the sake of coalition dharma.

so we can see why perhaps both central parties feel as if they have been at the short-end of the straw due to regional compromises.

IMO, it is Point #2 which is the immediate reason for the split in the current time-frame. Point #1 is a slow burn issue that has been on and off for centuries with no resolution. it will continue, albeit in more unique and unpredictable forms (both rivalry, and a hitherto unexplored territory of covert collaboration between the old-feudal dreamers and the mercantile element within the K's).

VenkataS · Post by **VenkataS** » 15 Oct 2013 06:54

Muppalla wrote:VenkatS, your ranks are nothing and there is no apples to oranges comparison there. Include states like Goa, Delhi, Chandigargh and what not and compare with big state like AP. City states Vs huge state. These numbers only blind us from reasonable reality. Why a top literate state with zero water/resources problem like Kerala is only few ounces ahead? With no real strife and a great attractor of investments why is Karnataka below AP? What is Modi's magic as he is not even capable to grow Gujarat more than Andaman or Pondicherry.

The real states with meat that can be counted above AP in that list are TN, MH, GUJ which has all sorts of similarities. It is not the comparison that is important. May be my statement of developed state is bit exaggeration.

I like your optimism about APs potential and hopefully it will get there soon. However as of right now I still believe that we are quite distant from what can be considered a developed Indian state. Take APs abysmal HDI for example (AP comes under low human development category):
From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_In ... ment_Index

Header Rank State/Union Territory HDI (2007-08)
High human development 1 Kerala 0.79
High human development 2 Goa 0.779
High human development 3 Delhi 0.75
Medium human development 4 Himachal Pradesh 0.652
Medium human development 5 Punjab 0.605
Medium human development 6 North eastern India (excluding Assam) 0.573
Medium human development 7 Maharashtra 0.572
Medium human development 8 Tamil Nadu 0.57
Medium human development 9 Haryana 0.552
Medium human development 10 Jammu and Kashmir 0.529
Medium human development 11 Gujarat 0.527
Medium human development 12 Karnataka 0.519
Low human development 13 West Bengal 0.492
Low human development 14 Uttarakhand 0.49
Low human development 15 Andhra Pradesh 0.473
Low human development — India (national average) 0.467
Low human development 16 Assam 0.444
Low human development 17 Rajasthan 0.434
Low human development 18 Uttar Pradesh 0.38
Low human development 19 Jharkhand 0.376
Low human development 20 Madhya Pradesh 0.375
Low human development 21 Bihar 0.367
Low human development 22 Odisha 0.362
Low human development 23 Chhattisgarh 0.358

I would consider a state as developed in the Indian context if it has a High HDI and higher GSDP per capita.
With that measure Goa, Delhi, and possibly Maharashra can be considered as developed with TN, Guj, and possibly Kerala having the potential to join the above three in the near future. But AP needs a lot of sustained effort on many different fronts to join this group.

Wealth without a proportional HDI increase is not something we should aim for.
I would want us and India as a whole to emulate South Korea (GDP per capita $22,589 and HDI .909 'very high human development'
rather than emulate Saudi Arabia (GDP per capita $24,524 and HDI .782 'high human development').
South Korea is considered a developed country by most standards whereas Saudi Arabia is not even though it has a higher GDP per capita. Interestingly India and South Korea had similar GDP per capita values in the 1960s.

If you come back with bigger state versus smaller state argument I would like to remind you that China with a bigger population than India has a much higher HDI value and is poised to break into the high human development category soon.

VenkataS · Post by **VenkataS** » 15 Oct 2013 06:56

Muppalla wrote:VenkatS, your ranks are nothing and there is no apples to oranges comparison there. Include states like Goa, Delhi, Chandigargh and what not and compare with big state like AP. City states Vs huge state. These numbers only blind us from reasonable reality. Why a top literate state with zero water/resources problem like Kerala is only few ounces ahead? With no real strife and a great attractor of investments why is Karnataka below AP? What is Modi's magic as he is not even capable to grow Gujarat more than Andaman or Pondicherry.

The real states with meat that can be counted above AP in that list are TN, MH, GUJ which has all sorts of similarities. It is not the comparison that is important. May be my statement of developed state is bit exaggeration.

I like your optimism about APs potential and hopefully it will get there soon. However as of right now I still believe that we are quite distant from what can be considered a developed Indian state. Take APs abysmal HDI for example (AP comes under low human development category):
From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_In ... ment_Index

Header Rank State/Union Territory HDI (2007-08)
High human development 1 Kerala 0.79
High human development 2 Goa 0.779
High human development 3 Delhi 0.75
Medium human development 4 Himachal Pradesh 0.652
Medium human development 5 Punjab 0.605
Medium human development 6 North eastern India (excluding Assam) 0.573
Medium human development 7 Maharashtra 0.572
Medium human development 8 Tamil Nadu 0.57
Medium human development 9 Haryana 0.552
Medium human development 10 Jammu and Kashmir 0.529
Medium human development 11 Gujarat 0.527
Medium human development 12 Karnataka 0.519
Low human development 13 West Bengal 0.492
Low human development 14 Uttarakhand 0.49
Low human development 15 Andhra Pradesh 0.473
Low human development — India (national average) 0.467
Low human development 16 Assam 0.444
Low human development 17 Rajasthan 0.434
Low human development 18 Uttar Pradesh 0.38
Low human development 19 Jharkhand 0.376
Low human development 20 Madhya Pradesh 0.375
Low human development 21 Bihar 0.367
Low human development 22 Odisha 0.362
Low human development 23 Chhattisgarh 0.358

I would consider a state as developed in the Indian context if it has a High HDI and higher GSDP per capita.
With that measure Goa, Delhi, and possibly Maharashra can be considered as developed with TN, Guj, and possibly Kerala having the potential to join the above three in the near future. But AP needs a lot of sustained effort on many different fronts to join this group.

Wealth without a proportional HDI increase is not something we should aim for.
I would want us and India as a whole to emulate South Korea (GDP per capita $22,589 and HDI .909 'very high human development'
rather than emulate Saudi Arabia (GDP per capita $24,524 and HDI .782 'high human development').
South Korea is considered a developed country by most standards whereas Saudi Arabia is not even though it has a higher GDP per capita. Interestingly India and South Korea had similar GDP per capita values in the 1960s.

If you come back with bigger state versus smaller state argument I would like to remind you that China with a bigger population than India has a much higher HDI value and is poised to break into the high human development category soon.