Islamism & Islamophobia Abroad - News & Analysis

kmkraoind · Post by **kmkraoind** » 17 Oct 2013 10:42

I have a question:

During Haj, all piligrams stone Satan symbols right. Then the question is:
1. Does they real hate Satan.
2 Does they love the ritual of stoning Satan.

If they hate Satan, why cannot a true Ghazi blow it up with his suicide vest or some other bombing?
If they love ritual of stoning Satan, then in their deep heart, they are equating Satan ritual-ship to that of circling Kaaba or in crude words equating Satan with Mohammed (PBUH).

I am a bit confused.

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 18 Oct 2013 02:08

Why am i in agreement with them?

member_22872 · Post by **member_22872** » 18 Oct 2013 03:54

I am not able to understand what the poster means

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 18 Oct 2013 04:35

I am not able to understand what the poster means

Few posts above there was a news item that said..cleric in Malaysia disallows Non Muslims to use the word Allah for God. Same context.

arun · Post by **arun** » 18 Oct 2013 06:28

arun wrote:
arun wrote:The onset of the Mohammadden holy month of Ramadan aka Ramzan is marred by violence perpetrated by Mohammaddens targeting both co-religionists and also “Kaafir” followers of other religions. A Religion induced festive spirit of peace distinctly seems to be in short supply .

Thailand:

Pre-Ramadan bomb wounds 8 soldiers

Lebanon:

Beirut: Ramadan Car Bomb Targets Hezbollah’s Shiite Stronghold

Somalia:

At least one killed by Shebab Mogadishu market bomb

arun wrote:Apparent case of Green on Green Intra-Mohammadden violence in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan on the first day of the Mohammadden holy month of Ramadan / Ramazan / Ramzan sees the demonstration of the IEDology of Pakistan targeting a Mosque:

Remote-controlled blast: Explosion outside mosque kills two in Kohat

arun wrote:The body count of Green on Green Intra Mohammadden violence during the month of ramadan aka ramazan aka ramzan which followers of Mohammaddenism consider holy, piles up.

On Friday, also the day of the Mohammadden Sabbath, in Kirkuk:

Bomb attack in Iraq kills at least 31

On Saturday in Baghdad:

13 killed in bomb blast at Sunni mosque in Baghdad

arun wrote:X Posted from the “Oppression of minorities in Pakistan” thread.

The month of Ramadan aka Ramazan aka Ramadan which Mohammaddens consider holy was not enough to stave off yet another bout of Green on Green religion inspired sectarian Intra-Mohammadden killings. In the present case, members of the minority Shia sect of Mohammaddenism are murdered by co-religionists of the Sunni sect ironically in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan, a country that claims it was formed as a “safe haven” for the Mohammaddens of the Indian Sub-Continent:

‘Sectarian attack’: Four Hazara traders shot dead in Quetta
Just as in the case of the Mohammadden holy month of Ramada aka Ramazan, the Mohammadden festival of Eid Ul Adha aka: Bakrid does not engender enough “brotherly” feeling to put on hold Green on Green Intra-Mohammadden violence, at least for the day of the festival.

In Afghanistan, Intra-Mohammadden violence sees a Mohammadden place of worship bombed while prayers for the Mohammadden festival of Eid Ul Adha were being carried out killing the Provincial Governor:

Afghan bomb kills Logar governor Jamal in mosque

In Pakistan Intra Mohammadden violence sees a demonstration of the IED Mubarak variant of the IEDology of Pakistan killing the Provincial Law Minister of Khyber Pakhtunkhwa:

KP law minister among eight killed in DI Khan suicide attack

It is inexplicable why adherents of the Mohammadden religion who describe theirs as “The Religion of Peace” not infrequently get incited to commit acts of violence on days that the religion considers holy.

Just as in the case of the Mohammadden holy month of Ramada aka Ramazan, the Mohammadden festival of Eid Ul Adha aka: Bakrid does not engender enough “brotherly” feeling to put on hold Green on Green Intra-Mohammadden violence, at least for the day of the festival.

In Kirkuk Sunni Mohammaddens exiting a place of worship following prayers offered on the occasion of the Mohammadden religious festival of Eid Ul Adha are targeted by their co-religionists:

Bomb near mosque in northern Iraq kills 12 Sunnis

...... And to demonstrate that the Green on Green Intra Mohammadden religion inspired sectarian violence is not a one way street, in Baghdad and Northern Iraq, Shia Mohammaddens come under attack:

Baghdad Car and Suicide Bombings Kill Over 60 During Muslim Religious Holiday

arun · Post by **arun** » 22 Oct 2013 06:05

X posted from the “Islamic Britain & The Compromised Western Civilization” thread.

As the size of the Mohammadden prison population swells in the UK, Non-Mohamaddens prison inmates are forced to convert and adhere to Mohammaddenism:

Britain’s jails facing ‘growing problem’ of forced conversion to Islam, officers warn

Anindya · Post by **Anindya** » 23 Oct 2013 00:53

The desire to whitewash Islamic crimes is habitual and inherent - unfortunately, we as a society (and perennial victims of Islamic crimes) have also have adopted this practice.

Turkey Preventing U.S. Institution From Displaying Genocide-era Artwork

Turkey has reportedly pressured the Obama Administration into forcing the Smithsonian Institution to cancel an official display of the historic Genocide-era "Armenian Orphan Rug."

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 23 Oct 2013 01:07

The Islamists keep some too busy this thread..with some 20-30 bombings, assassinations, beheadings every page. Sometimes a few are missed. Russia woman Jihadi blows herself and 6 others. Loving husband prepared suicide vest for her. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... lls-6.html

member_19686 · Post by **member_19686** » 23 Oct 2013 07:44

Sultan of Brunei introduces tough Islamic punishments
Oct 22, 2013, 02.20PM IST AFP

BANDAR SERI BEGAWAN, Brunei: The Sultan of Brunei introduced tough sharia-law punishments on Tuesday including death by stoning for crimes such as adultery, hailing what he called a "historic" step toward Islamic orthodoxy for his sleepy country.

Sultan Hassanal Bolkiah — one of the world's wealthiest men — said a new sharia penal code in the works for years was officially introduced on Tuesday in the tiny, oil-flush sultanate and would be phased in, in the next six months.

Based on individual cases, punishments could include stoning to death for adultery, severing of limbs for theft, and flogging for violations ranging from abortion to alcohol consumption, according to a copy of the code.

The code applies only to Muslims. "By the grace of Allah, with the coming into effect of this legislation, our duty to Allah is therefore being fulfilled," the sultan, 67, said in a speech.

An absolute monarch whose family has tightly controlled the languid, oil-rich country of 400,000 for six centuries, the sultan first called in 1996 for the introduction of sharia criminal punishments.

The sultan already imposes a relatively conservative brand of Islam on his subjects, compared to Brunei's southeast Asian Muslim neighbours, Malaysia and Indonesia.

Brunei bans the sale and public consumption of alcohol and closely restricts other religions.

But sharia has been a rare point of contention in a land where the sultan's word is unquestioned, with many Bruneians quietly grumbling that the concept is out of step with the affluent country's laid-back ethnic Malay society.

"These rights-abusing policies are a good indication of why modern democracy and the right of people to participate in their government is a much better idea than anachronistic absolute monarchy," said Phil Robertson, deputy Asia director for Human Rights Watch.

The situation shows that "respect for basic civil and political rights is near zero in Brunei," he added.

The monarch himself has acknowledged concerns over sharia in recent years as the code was being drafted.

It was not immediately clear how aggressively it would be enforced. Two years ago, the attorney-general's office promised Brunei would apply an extremely high burden of proof for sharia cases and judges would have wide discretion in applying it, in comments apparently aimed at easing public fears.

"It seems almost incompatible with Malay culture, which is peace-loving," said Tuah Ibrahim, 57, driver of a boat taxi in the capital Bandar Seri Begawan.

He said sharia can be acceptable if proportionate to the crime, but adds: "I can't imagine our country turning into somewhere like Saudi Arabia."

Brunei already has a dual system combining civil courts based on British law — the sultanate was a British protectorate until 1984 — and sharia-compliant courts limited to personal and family issues such as marriage and inheritance.

Nearly 70 per cent of Brunei's people are Muslim ethnic Malays. About 15 per cent are non-Muslim ethnic Chinese, followed by indigenous tribes and other groups.

Bankrolled by South China Sea oil and gas fields, Brunei has one of Asia's highest standards of living, including free medical care and education through the university level.

The monarch's wealth — estimated at $20 billion by Forbes magazine two years ago — and luxurious lifestyle, have become legendary, with reports emerging of his vast collection of luxury vehicles and gold-bedecked palaces.

The monarchy was deeply embarrassed by a sensational family feud between Hassanal and his younger brother Jefri Bolkiah over the latter's alleged embezzlement of 15 billion dollars during his tenure as finance minister in the 1990s.

Subsequent court battles and exposes revealed salacious details of Jefri's un-Islamic jet-set lifestyle, including allegations of a high-priced harem of Western paramours and a luxury yacht he owned called "Tits."

Despite a suave image overseas, the sultan repeatedly warns at home of the potential impact that increasing integration with the world could have on Brunei's moral values and has leaned towards Islamic orthodoxy of late.

In the past year, the government introduced mandatory religious education for all Muslim children and ordered all businesses closed during Friday prayers.

In his speech, the sultan appeared to try to assuage any international concerns that may arise, saying the sharia change "does not in any way change our policies ... as a member of the family of nations."

http://m.timesofindia.com/world/rest-of ... 536930.cms

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 23 Oct 2013 15:26

Wonderful from the WOG sultan.I wonder how he would deal with his playboy brother Prince Jeffri,who ran through billions in his time?

http://www.vanityfair.com/society/featu ... fri-201107

The Prince Who Blew Through Billions
When two British lawyers, Faith Zaman and Thomas Derbyshire, signed on in 2004 to manage the affairs of Prince Jefri Bolkiah, notorious playboy brother of the Sultan of Brunei, they entered a world of orgiastic wealth: 250 companies, 2,000 cars, luxury hotels, planeloads of women and polo ponies, colossal diamonds. Caught in a feud between the prince and the sultan, they ended up in a court battle over $23 million. Following the couple’s legal victory, Mark Seal gets an exclusive on the story the jury didn’t hear.

A glorious 8 page saga.Enjoy it to the fullest!

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 23 Oct 2013 19:14

^^^ My sympathies with the prince. Sounds like the story of the East India Company and decrepit Maharajas of India

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 23 Oct 2013 23:17

^^^£1.5 million "gift" to the badminton coach...

Holy Sunni!!!

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 23 Oct 2013 23:40

http://www.forbes.com/sites/markadomani ... ng-muslim/
is-russia-turning-muslim

I won’t get too spun up about the fact that Christianity is not an ethnicity, but the numbers Pipes cited seemed really off to me. I was particularly struck by the suggestion that any sizable group of people living in Moscow averages 10 children a women. That level of fertility would be superhuman in even the most rural location, but in Moscow it strains credulity past the breaking point. Moscow, after all, is one of the most expensive and crowded cities in the world: I simply can’t imagine the sorts of resources you would need in order to raise 10 children there.Curious as to where Pipes got his numbers, I set out to try and see what the variation between ethnic Russian and Muslim birth rates actually is. Now as far as I am aware Rosstat, the Russian statistical agency, doesn’t publish any ethnically-based fertility or mortality statistics. I’ve spent an awful lot of time over the past few years looking through Rosstat databases, and I don’t think I’ve ever seen data on the birth or death rates of a particular ethnic group. It would be great to know what the alcohol poisoning rate was for all ethnic Russians or what the birth rate was for all ethnic Tatars, but, unfortunately, those don’t seem to be available.Rosstat does, however, publish region-by-region fertility statistics. Additionally, as part of the 2010 census, Rosstat also collected regional data on ethnicity. Looking at the census data, you can therefore get a pretty clear idea about which regions are dominated by ethnic Russians and other ethnic Slavs. You can then look at the fertility rate in those same regions to try to see what the “Russian” birth rate actually is.So I examined those regions that had populations that were more than 90% Slavic, a subset which had a total population of slightly more than 49 million people. I then calculated the weighed average fertility rate for this group. The result? Well, maybe not as dramatic as you might have expected.So, in 2011, the most heavily Slavic parts of the country, areas with virtually no “national minorities,” had a fertility rate that was only about 3% lower than the all-Russian average. That’s a real difference, but not a shocking one.
Do traditionally Muslim areas of Russia have higher fertility than traditionally Russian ones? Yes, they do. But the weighted average TFR of traditionally Muslim areas (seven different regions inhabited by about 13.8 million people) is 1.94. It seems impossible to square Pipes’ contention that Chechen and Tatar women are averaging 6 and 10 children with the fact that even traditionally Muslim areas of Russia have below-replacement fertility. The population of Russia’s Muslim areas will still shrink, it will just do so more gradually than in traditionally Russian areas.Now the above does not conclusively prove that there is not an enormous discrepancy between Russian and Muslim birth rates. It’s theoretically possible that even in the overwhelmingly Slavic regions I looked at that an extremely disproportionate share of the births are occurring among a small number of non-Slavs. For all I know there could be 10 Chechen “hero-mothers” in Bryansk who have each had 30 children. But, based on the relevant data, it seems far more likely that the differences between different ethnic groups are a lot more muted than Pipes implied.
Will Russia’s Muslim population grow in the coming years? Yes, it will. Will that growth have political, economic, and social consequences? Yes it will. But it simply doesn’t seem to be true that Russians are being massively out-bred by more fecund minorities. The non-Russian share of the population will increase but it will do so in a glow and gradual manner, not the vaguely apocalyptic one traced by Pipes. In this sense Russia is not a bizarre outlier but an awful lot like most European countries where the share of the titular nationality is set to decline gradually over the course of the 21st century. I don’t want to hurt anyone’s feelings, but for the purposes of evaluating Russia’s potential transformation into a Muslim-dominated shariah state, I think it’s reasonable to lump Ukrainians and Belorussians along with ethnic Russians. When Russian nationalists riot in Moscow, I’m confident that they’re not protesting about their country’s overabundance of Ukrainian mechanics or Belorussian construction workers

Agnimitra · Post by **Agnimitra** » 24 Oct 2013 03:09

X-post:

The Muslim Conquest of India: From Will Durant’s Classic 11-Volume ‘Story of Civilization

kancha · Post by **kancha** » 24 Oct 2013 17:25

Australians Assault Americans in Saudi Arabia

A group of metro Detroiters visiting Saudi Arabia for the annual Muslim pilgrimage said they were attacked and threatened with death last week by a group of Sunni men from Australia because they are Shias, a minority sect within Islam.

Enough said!

Lisa · Post by **Lisa** » 24 Oct 2013 21:03

Is there a correct thread for this?

Taxpayers foot £350k legal bill for Muslim pubic hair battle

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/1039617 ... attle.html

KJo · Post by **KJo** » 24 Oct 2013 21:55

Overall, it is amazing that in 2013, India still is a country with Hindu influence. A person who was born in 1500AD would never believe it if you told him that when he lived.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 24 Oct 2013 22:01

KJoishy wrote:Overall, it is amazing that in 2013, India still is a country with Hindu influence. A person who was born in 1500AD would never believe it if you told him that when he lived.

Thanks to those who kept batteling,resisting , making supreme sacrifices yet we dont have memorial to to show our gratefulness to them. Dont know if our coming generations will be in position to make the similar claim.

Anindya · Post by **Anindya** » 26 Oct 2013 03:21

Old news, but still worth posting - from Tarek Fateh
Muslim Mob goes Mad in Mumbai

The screaming and shouting aside, the use of sexually explicit profanities being hurled at non-Muslim Indians by this mob while chanting ‘Allah O Akbar’, should embarrass any Muslim who watches this video, but will it? On top of that, waving the Pakistani flag while attacking an Indian War Memorial is despicable by any measure of human behaviour.

Anindya · Post by **Anindya** » 27 Oct 2013 04:23

Yet another attempt to fund religious structures and institutions....

Religious levy costs Queensland abattoirs thousands each month

QUEENSLAND abattoirs are being slugged thousands of dollars a month through a religious levy on meat exports so powerful Muslim clerics in Jakarta can raise money for Islamic schools and mosques.

The Halal certification fees can cost some meat processors up to $27,000 a month.

The Indonesian Council of Ulama (MUI), the top Islamic body which orders fatwa religious rulings, has even banned a Brisbane business from operating - because it was not charging Queensland abattoirs enough to give the religious tick-off to export meat.

The scandal has stopped most of Queensland's Halal meat exports to Indonesia, as angry abattoir operators boycott the more expensive Halal certifiers endorsed by the MUI.

Australian companies that certify meat as Halal, or legal under Islamic law, must be accredited with Indonesia's MUI - which approves just one certifier per state or territory.

The MUI has suspended Brisbane based Australian Halal Food Services (AHFS) for engaging in "unfair competition'' that could "weaken (the) Halal certification movement".

Certifiers must donate a share of their revenue to mosques and Islamic schools.

arun · Post by **arun** » 27 Oct 2013 17:52

Jhujar wrote:
KJoishy wrote:Overall, it is amazing that in 2013, India still is a country with Hindu influence. A person who was born in 1500AD would never believe it if you told him that when he lived.
Thanks to those who kept batteling,resisting , making supreme sacrifices yet we dont have memorial to to show our gratefulness to them. Dont know if our coming generations will be in position to make the similar claim.

Meanwhile very regrettably the Nehru-Gandhi family led Congress Party is pulling out all stops to ensure that us Dhimmi Kaafirs living in States administered by that political party are subject to self-imposed dhimmism by adopting the paying of modern forms of jaziya in order to pander to Mohammadden sentiments for electoral advantage.

In Maharashtra in an article datelined Oct 23, we are informed that reserving flats for adherents of Mohammaddenism will entitle property developers to incentives:

Maharashtra govt funding may soon hinge on a cultural diversity index

While in Karnataka in an article datelined Oct 27, we are informed that Mohammadden brides are to be funded by taxpayers:

Karnataka to give funding to poor Muslim brides

uddu · Post by **uddu** » 27 Oct 2013 19:25

The photos Saudi Arabia doesn't want seen – and proof Islam's most holy relics are being demolished in Mecca
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 36968.html

uddu · Post by **uddu** » 27 Oct 2013 19:33

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/com ... 29682.html
How many of those imams have bothered to get animated about what has happened in Mecca and Medina? How many are outraged that the house of Muhammad’s first wife Khadijah was pulled down and replaced with a block of public toilets,

or that five of the seven mosques marking the Battle of the Trench outside Medina have been destroyed, or that religious police cheered when a mosque linked to the Prophet’s grandson was dynamited? It’s politically a lot more convenient to blame infidels for disrespecting your religion’s founder than it is to point the finger of blame at your own kind.

sampat · Post by **sampat** » 28 Oct 2013 04:02

don't know where elese to post this

Brutal beating Warning

Slavery in Saudi Arabia

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 28 Oct 2013 05:11

Perhaps we should let Indians in India question slavery in Saudia.

The westerner I note is calling the Saudis 'dirtbags'. Indians are indifferent. That is much more worrisome than some loser Arabs.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 28 Oct 2013 07:08

^^Sanjaykumar, correct. These are the heroes of Islam, the supposed role models, that many in the IM population look upto and even several GOI diplomats would typically have an issue if asked to take a stand lest it be considered communal or worsen our ties with such an "important" country.

This sort of behaviour and attitude seems to be endemic across several places in the ME. Dubai for all its glitz and glamor has a huge population of poor workers from India, Pak, Bangladesh who are treated badly. For that matter, there was a syrian on one board I used to frequent. Arrogant and once claimed that India was a poor country as all it did was provide "servants" to Syria. Now, judging by what's going on there, I wonder what his exalted state of affairs is.

Reading what the folks in the ME and associated groups have done in the past to other civilizations, leaves a feeling of shock, despair and anger.

However, whats truly pathetic is all this going on, even today.

Anindya · Post by **Anindya** » 28 Oct 2013 11:20

All within the last day or so....the violence is certainly habitual...

6 killed in 8 explosions as IM targets Modi’s Patna rally

Wedding-bound minibus bombed in Afghanistan; 20 dead

Over 50 dead as 10 car bomb blasts rip across Baghdad province

joygoswami · Post by **joygoswami** » 28 Oct 2013 17:20

Syrian Man pushes an innocent donkey from a cliff

CLICK HERE

**GRAPHIC WARNING

joygoswami · Post by **joygoswami** » 28 Oct 2013 17:23

Meanwhile in Islamic Republic Of Londonistan

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 28 Oct 2013 20:37

But who knows who these islamists in Londonistan are. After all UK and US are strategic allies to all Islamic state as well. So this is just secular bonhomie between secular secular and not for heathens and pagaans to understand.

God spare any moment if Roma or other minority is in camera or even here. THAT would be communal and less than civilized totally. Secular love is okay chaltaa he hotaa he only.

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 28 Oct 2013 20:47

American tourist attacked in London by martial Islamic Ghazis they were so in love with.
Allah (or is it khuda) works in mysterious ways.

Lots of whities have got their thighties in twist over this demonstration of peaceful nature of Islam

Anindya · Post by **Anindya** » 29 Oct 2013 04:36

We're so inured to the ravages of this ideology, that something so ridiculous hardly receives any attention at all...

21 would-be child bombers detained - The children, aged between 7 and 12 years, were detained

Intelligence operatives in eastern Laghman province have detained 21 children, some as young as 7, being taken to Pakistan for receiving suicide attack training, an official said on Thursday.

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 29 Oct 2013 10:18

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/29/opini ... -more.html

Islamic Comrades No More

The coup last July in Egypt opened a new divide in the Middle East, alienating the Gulf monarchies from the Muslim Brotherhood. This is a momentous change in the region’s strategic landscape that promises to influence governments and regional alliances for years to come.

For six decades, Saudi Arabia and the Muslim Brotherhood were comrades in arms. Theirs was an Islamic alliance, formed in the 1950s to defend against the secular Arab nationalism that Egypt’s leader, Gamal Abdel Nasser, had unleashed. The alliance survived the end of that ideology, and since the 1980s it had defended the Sunni claim to Islamic leadership against the Shiite challenge from Iran.

Throughout, Saudi Arabia provided refuge and patronage to generations of Brotherhood activists from across the Arab world, glossing over ideological differences between the Saudis and the activists about popular rule and autocracy. Brotherhood intellectuals honed their ideology in Saudi Arabia and developed ties with like-minded Islamists from across the Muslim world. An exiled Syrian Brotherhood activist teaching in Jidda converted a teenage Osama bin Laden to Islamism. It was with Saudi blessing that Brotherhood fighters joined the Afghan jihad in the 1980s, and found their way to Al Qaeda.

The alliance buttressed the House of Saud’s Islamic legitimacy. It also brought greater influence over Arab politics. Saudi Arabia used its ties to the Brotherhood to help Egypt make the transition from Nasser to Anwar el-Sadat in 1970, brokering a deal that favored Sadat after Islamists engaged in street fights and back-room maneuvering against the remnants of Nasserism. That shift eliminated the kingdom’s strongest Arab adversary, ensuring Saudi pre-eminence in Arab politics for decades.

The alliance also ensured the longevity of the Saudi regime, buying it protection against a homegrown Islamist rejection of the modernity and opulence brought by oil wealth, as well as the House of Saud’s steady move into America’s orbit. With the Brotherhood as an underdog it patronized, Saudi Arabia could afford to be both Islamic and pro-West, and to support Islamic causes while backing secular regimes like that of Hosni Mubarak of Egypt — even as he barred the Brotherhood from political power.

All of that changed when the Brotherhood took power in Egypt by winning the presidential election in 2012.

The election produced an ambitious ideological regime, speaking for Islam and eager to shape the Arab world in its own image — stands that would pose the same degree of threat to Saudi Arabia’s stolid monarchy as Nasser’s secular Arab populism had. Saudi monarchs could be comfortable with the Brotherhood as a powerless client, but not as an equal ruler of a state. So Riyadh supported the Egyptian military’s coup in July.

The Muslim Brotherhood was born in 1928 in opposition to an Egyptian monarchy. Its ideology blends Islam with Arab nationalism to denounce autocracy and the West. It promises to empower both the people and Islamic law in an ideal “republic” — a sharp contrast to the Saudi monarchy. Since Saudi identity is wrapped tightly around a puritanical interpretation of Islam, and Saudi nationalism draws on the centrality of Mecca and Medina to the Islamic faith, secular democracy has yet to find a large Saudi following. But the Brotherhood’s populist Islamism, which promises justice and equity, and empowerment of the individual in religion and politics, does resonate with the many unemployed and restless young Saudis.

In breaking with the Brotherhood to protect their domestic grip on power, the Saudi rulers may have miscalculated. The Brotherhood is a regional force. Its tentacles run from North Africa through the Middle East. By removing their patronage from the Brotherhood and throwing their full support behind the Egyptian military — and other regimes bent on crushing the Brotherhood — the Saudis may be pushing the movement to become both more extreme and more sharply anti-monarchical, threatening the Islamic legitimacy of all the Arab monarchies.

In the coming years, the larger strategic challenge facing Saudi Arabia may not be Iran, as it has been, but the Brotherhood. This new rivalry could set off protracted conflicts across the region, which in turn could disturb efforts toward a Palestinian-Israeli peace, and to contain Iran’s influence.

Already, the rivalry is affecting the United States, whose policies in Iran and Syria drew open criticism from Saudi officials last week. That criticism played to general Arab frustration with Washington, of course, but in the background was continuing Saudi resentment that Washington helped push out Mr. Mubarak in 2011, and that it now refuses to welcome the coup and the Egyptian military’s repression of the Brotherhood.

Still, there are things America could do to lessen the harm being done by the rift.

The key would be to stop ignoring Egypt, to help build its economy and to end its corrosive political impasse. Only America can rally an international effort to address Egypt’s vast economic needs, and it should use that leverage to persuade Egypt’s rulers to convincingly point the way to democratic rule. Equally important would be more American attention to Morocco, Tunisia and Jordan, where willing elements of the Muslim Brotherhood might be included in broad-based coalitions with secular democrats.

In the long run, establishing economic progress and political stability in all of those countries would be the best way to address Saudi fears that instability would spread to the monarchies. And that would do much to lessen the impact of Egypt’s current agonies on the whole region.

Vali R. Nasr is the dean of the Johns Hopkins School of Advanced International Studies.

INTERNATIONAL NEW YORK TIMES

Paul · Post by **Paul** » 29 Oct 2013 14:14

It is likely that Islam and Christianity will morph into a single identity as time goes by. After all, they both espouse the same message.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 30 Oct 2013 03:15

http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/201 ... s-sources/
Saudi Arabia frees man jailed 20 months for Mohammad tweets – sources
( I think we all remember him,Wonder how long will be able to escape from being Qadrifide)

A Saudi blogger was freed on Tuesday, 20 months after he was detained for publishing an imaginary conversation with Islam’s Prophet Mohammad on Twitter, his friend and a lawyer said, though there was no confirmation from the government.Hamza Kashgari fled Saudi Arabia for Malaysia in February last year after his tweets enraged some conservative Muslims and triggered death threats. He was extradited back to the kingdom days later and imprisoned.“He was freed this morning,” the 24-year-old’s friend told Reuters, but declined to comment further. Prominent human rights lawyer Abdulrahman Allahim congratulated Kashgari on his release on Twitter.Saudi Arabia and other Gulf Arab states have grown increasingly sensitive to criticism of senior officials, ruling family members and clerics, and to comments they regard as blasphemous, particularly on social media.

Anindya · Post by **Anindya** » 30 Oct 2013 06:47

Unnecessary but habitual cruelty...

'Puppy Bombs' Rescued from Egyptian Violence

Two puppies from Egypt were rescued just moments before they were to be used by the Muslim Brotherhood in their protests as "puppy bombs" dipped in gasoline and set on fire.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 31 Oct 2013 07:40

Anne-Marie Waters at the Oxford Union

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... QjZHFnmADQ

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 01 Nov 2013 02:22

Found this NSFW / tragic picture on Tweeterhttps://twitter.com/azuth/status/391628112573644800/photo/1

akashganga · Post by **akashganga** » 01 Nov 2013 02:38

Paul wrote:It is likely that Islam and Christianity will morph into a single identity as time goes by. After all, they both espouse the same message.

This will never happen. Islam's aim is to wipe out all other religions including christianity. Founders of both these religions have said explicitly that their's is the one and only way. That is why jehadis vs crusaders war has been going on for more than 1000 years.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 01 Nov 2013 04:43

The Quiet Death of Moderate Islam
http://hurryupharry.org/2013/10/31/the- ... ate-islam/
(Kai Jub Ye Paida Hue.... Roye)

Let’s also assume that their religious leaders assert that their religion commands them to obey the laws of the countries in which they live and that that any support for lynching applies only in an ‘ideal Apartheid state’?Does being law-abiding and supporting something abhorrent, but only in an ‘ideal’ state make an individual ‘moderate’ by default? Does it confer on that personfa the automatic right to be tolerated, respected and defended from hostility?Is it conceivable that a religious or community leader would be allowed to advocate lynching, even in an ‘ideal’ world, in a church, community centre or student meeting, without being prosecuted for hate crime and harassed mercilessly by anti-fascists?Could someone ever say such a thing on BBC radio without being pilloried by the interviewer and generating a massive, public outcry?
When I was a child, my relatives would tell me that the hadud punishments of stoning, beheading and limb amputation weren’t part of modern Islam – such practices belonged to another time, in the same way that burning witches in Europe belonged to another time. I was told that the only Muslims that supported such practices were ‘backward’ and the only places that practiced them were ‘barbaric’ – in time ‘education’ would enlighten these simple folk and drag them into modernity.Yet I’ve grown up and seen the opposite happen.These days, one can happily believe and even state publicly that the death penalty should apply to anyone who has sex outside of marriage, takes part in a homosexual act, insults the Prophet or leaves Islam without being ‘extreme’.As long as one says “in an ideal Islamic society”.HP ran a piece about Abdul Qadeer Baksh, Chairman of the Islamic Centre in Luton. Baksh asserted on BBC 3 Counties Radio that every moderate Muslim believes that gays would be executed in an ideal Islamic state. Whilst the presenter, Olly Mann did challenge him on this, I couldn’t help but feel irritated by Mann’s lack of outrage – the challenge was far too polite almost to the point of being deferential – “Er, I do accept that you said in an ‘ideal’ Islamic state”.How does ‘ideal’ make any material difference to the hatefulness of what was being said?Forgive the ugliness of my anology, but imagine that one of our fictional Afrikaners had said, “Blacks would be executed for miscegenation in an ideal Apartheid state”. Would Mann have been so circumspect in displaying his disgust and outrage at such a statement?
On Question Time, Nick Griffin infamously said: “I shared a platform with David Duke, who was once a member of the Ku Klux Klan, a totally non-violent one by the way”.How we all laughed – who couldn’t see the absurdity of Griffin’s caveat?
Which is why it is so hard for me to bear the inability of so many Europeans to see and react appropriately to the unacceptable extremism that has become mainstream in Muslim society.Whilst Griffin’s equivocations are picked up immediately, Muslim spokesmen get away with weasel words all of the time. The general pattern goes like this:“Doing / supporting [insert abhorrent view] is un-Islamic. This is Britain. Islam commands British Muslims living in Britain to obey British law.”The caveats are “Britain” and “British”. Listen for them then despair as I do at the interviewer, who’ll either not notice and certainly won’t ask: “Hold on, why are you using caveats? Do you think it’s okay to non-British Muslims to [insert abhorrent view] outside of Britain or in an ideal Islamic society?”The bitter irony is that as vile as Griffin, Duke and their respective groups are, I doubt that hardly anyone belonging to the BNP or KKK actually advocates the execution of non-whites – even in a twisted ‘ideal’ world. What’s more, even if they did, it would be inconceivable that they would ever get away with saying such a thing in public without suffering very serious legal consequences and attracting massive negative publicity.
So why is it so much less despicable for a Muslim spokesman to say that gays ought to be killed on BBC radio? Is the life of a gay man really of lesser value than that of a black man?What ever happened to rationality?As HP exposes all-too-frequently, throughout Europe, in mosques, Islamic centres and student Islamic societies, there are Muslims who have no qualms about stating openly their support for the type of ‘ideal Islamic state’ that Baksh hopes for.They do it secure in the knowledge that bien pensants will politely put their fingers in their ears and face the other way, whilst at the same time foolish organisations such as Hope Not Hate (HnH) and the rather more sinister Unite Against Fascism (UAF) and militant Antifa organisations in Europe will attack mercilessly anyone who is too vocal in criticising the persons or groups who hold and promote such horrific world-views.In a rational world, Baksh would now be a social pariah and facing prosecution for hate-crime whilst being hounded unrelentingly by anti-fascist activists.But in reality, he’ll remain lionized as a ‘community leader’, no doubt feted by Luton’s great and good – the local council, ‘community’ police quango, media and political class.What’s more, can there be any doubt that he’ll be welcomed with open arms at any UAF meeting he chooses to attend? Indeed it seems he’d find himself among like-minded people.If one were to ask a member of this ‘great and good’ to describe what they imagine a ‘moderate’ Muslim believes, then they’d probably prefer to describe the views of someone like me rather than the views of someone like Baksh.But if you asked the same person to engage with a Muslim ‘representative’, they’d go for someone like Baksh every time. And there’s the contradiction – even though it’s convenient to pretend one thing in public, the media and the political class know deep down that people like me no longer represent the views of British Muslims.
I believe that hadud punishments are wrong – killing or maiming a human being is never justifiable. I support free speech, even if it is critical of the Prophet or challenges the beliefs of some Muslims. I believe that adults must be free to have consensual sex in private with whomever they wish. I believe that a Muslim must be free to leave Islam. Crucially, I believe that these rights must apply here, everywhere, today and forever. And I believe that any such ‘crimes’, if they are even crimes, are for Allah alone to judge.Whilst I’m not alone as a Muslim in holding such beliefs, people like me are very much on our own. We face overwhelming hostility from the ‘vast majority of moderate Muslims’. We’re accused of causing fitnah and of being murtad – apostates, and as such we too warrant the death penalty alongside homosexuals in Baksh’s ideal Islamic state.It’s ironic that in modern Britain, it is far, far more dangerous for me to state my beliefs in public in than it is for Baksh to state his.
What chance do people like me have when the ‘great and good’, the liberal media and the ‘anti-fascist’ organisations that ought to be supporting and defending us, instead support and defend those who believe we should die? In an ‘ideal’ world.
The gutless media. The unprincipled trade unions, universities and student unions that turn a blind eye to the wickedness being promoted in their midst. The hypocritical ‘anti-fascist’ organisations that enable and defend hate. Most of all, the lickspittle political class. Shame on them all.‘Extreme’ has quietly become ‘moderate’ whilst Europeans have been too polite, too unprincipled or too cowardly to object.There are those who say, “Islam needs a ‘Reformation”. To them I say “Look around you – the Reformation has already taken place”.Ali Eteraz wrote an insightful and depressing piece on this:“According to 18th century records, the Ottoman Empire – Islam’s ruling power – had not flogged, imprisoned, or passed the death sentence on adulterers for nearly 400 years. The traditionalist Ottoman jurists had relied on the Quran’s “four witnesses” rule, which had made proving adultery virtually impossible.Along came a self-professed Islamic reformer named Abdul Wahhab. … Wahhab said that procuring a confession was enough to stone someone to death and proceeded to do so.”During the past two decades, the Saudis have spent at least $87 billion propagating Wahhabism abroad.At the same time, competing fundamentalist Shia and Sunni movements have been promoted aggressively throughout Europe, with massive funding from countries such as Iran and Qatar.Moderate Islam is as good as dead. It didn’t stand a chance.
Throughout Europe today, someone can advocate a Utopia in which gays and apostates are killed and nevertheless expect to be considered a ‘moderate’, fully entitled to and deserving of tolerance and respect. They can even call themselves an ‘anti-fascist’.As long as that Utopia is “an ideal Islamic society”.I’ll end with this meeting in Norway, of moderate Muslims who make my point better than I ever could.