Patna Blasts : 27 Oct 2013 (News and Discussion)

[ramana]

^^ Regardless, why cant high level private security be arranged by BJP for its candidate.

Are you familiar with Indian Arms Act of 1878 amended in 1959
after Independence?

http://artassam.nic.in/Home%20Departmen ... 201959.pdf

What this does is makes one powerless. No automatics for private citizens ie even retired SPGs.

[kmkraoind]

'There was no checking; and police said venue was unsafe for Modi - Rediff - Sheela Bhatt, Shekhar Iyer

In front part of the maidan, near the stage, nobody moved out. They were all too eager to see Modi. They didn’t take an exit in spite of fumes in the maidan. So much expectation was built up over Modi that we saw some people returning back to the maidan who had left the place earlier. It’s difficult to understand crowd’s behaviour. Some came back saying, “Nothing will happen to us!”

Even at the risk of their lives, politicians, people and media didn’t run away from Gandhi Maidan. Somehow none of us wanted to leave the place. We thought we are part of the historical moment. We wanted to capture it.

The biggest heroes of this whole saga are Pataliputrians, they did not unfazed, panicked or agitated. Probably, they think their Maurya has come again.

[ramana]

And ordinary police who helped the injured and defused bums with primitive equipment.

[Sushupti]

'There was no checking; and police said venue was unsafe for Modi'

Shekhar Iyer, senior associate editor of the Hindustan Times, was present at Patna’s Gandhi Maidan where a series of bomb blasts rocked Bharatiya Janata Party’s Hunkar rally, and soon after Narendra Modi, the party’s PM candidate, delivered a political speech.

It was one of the most unforgettable days in the history of public rallies in India. If something had gone further wrong, hundreds of people could have died in a stampede after the series of six blasts that killed six people and injured 82 others.

In a brief chat with Rediff.com, Iyer, a distinguished journalist, took us through the eventful day that took his breath away.

http://m.rediff.com/news/slide-show/sli ... 1030.htm#3

[Malayappan]

A blogpost. First part contains many info that BRFites will know. Scroll down to see cut and paste of some articles from HT.

Article Headlines:

Patna Blasts Planned two months back
Youth of Capital can't believe it happened
Patna elders feel unsafe terrorised after the blasts

http://ioretradingindia.blogspot.in/201 ... anoos.html

[Anantha]

^^ Regardless, why cant high level private security be arranged by BJP for its candidate.

Are you familiar with Indian Arms Act of 1869 amended
after Independence?

No I was not aware of it. What then is the option with the Dilli boys out to get Modi?
Looks like 2014 is a make or break year for India

[Rahul M]

No I was not aware of it. What then is the option with the Dilli boys out to get Modi?
Looks like 2014 is a make or break year for India

if NSG is not improved, like Ved Marwah says, the only option is for gujarat police to do the needfull.

[sum]

^^ IIRC, even for the rally, Gujarat police arranged a bulletproof SUV from their stock since Bihar police only had amby's and no SUVs

[sum]

'There was no checking; and police said venue was unsafe for Modi'

Shekhar Iyer, senior associate editor of the Hindustan Times, was present at Patna’s Gandhi Maidan where a series of bomb blasts rocked Bharatiya Janata Party’s Hunkar rally, and soon after Narendra Modi, the party’s PM candidate, delivered a political speech.

It was one of the most unforgettable days in the history of public rallies in India. If something had gone further wrong, hundreds of people could have died in a stampede after the series of six blasts that killed six people and injured 82 others.

In a brief chat with Rediff.com, Iyer, a distinguished journalist, took us through the eventful day that took his breath away.

http://m.rediff.com/news/slide-show/sli ... 1030.htm#3

From the article:

That was the memorable thing about October 27. In the evening, we reached the airport. We boarded the plane. What did we see? Rajiv Pratap Rudy was in his pilot suit and greeted us.

The leader was on the stage in the morning and was managing the crowd. Here he was in uniform. He is a trained pilot and wanted to add to his flying hours. He greeted us and talked to us. When we flew over Varanasi he informed us about it. During the return journey he kept telling us that we are safe and will land in Delhi and on time. The day ended cheerfully. It was our good luck. We were very lucky, really!”

All i can say is wow. Have to admire this man's energy levels ( Rudy) to have such a tiring rally the whole day and again pilot a flight back in the evening!!

[Rahul M]

problem is that a state police doesn't have the power to force cooperation from another state police, something that SPG for example does have.

[brihaspati]

problem is that a state police doesn't have the power to force cooperation from another state police, something that SPG for example does have.

The more basic problem is the political control over the agenda of state and central policing. So in a sense, the lack of power you refer to has both its plus and minus points. Minus is what you mentioned. Plus is - that for example Bihar police under various pressures, is not able to use official levers to extract info and cooperation from Gujarat police to frame say Amit shah.

If Modi wins, political class may expect a Cairo/Libya like situation in Dilli where a million people may swarm the Lutyens/ other important places and chase some of the crooks out of the country. I believe Baba Ramdev/Anna movements are precursors of what could come when anger spills over. No wonder, the Seculars will try everything to get rid of this man.[...]

If people take to streets do you expect the army to shoot its citizens... not in India

The army just might - actually do so. The Indian state has maintained the essential British imperial need to keep the army detached from politics and identifying with radical trends within the nation. The Brits did it to maintain their distinctly foreign identity yet holding imperial power over India. For post-independence govs, it helps to officially represent this as an antidote to potential for India similar to what happens in Pakiland and BD - carefully avoiding the fact of islamism as a determining factor in such militarization of politics. Internally, the detachment helps to keep the majority under the threat of one-sided potential state violence.

Naturally, this detachment policy is expected to work best when it comes to suppressing the majority and/or non-Muslim militancy. Because these other ideologies have been constantly hammered by the state.

Moreover, even for a future PM Namo, it wil become even more imperative to prevent such crowd outbursts of the majority sentiment at the "capital". Do not expect that he will be that far away from what we get from the secular crowd. The agenda has been so firmly set that NM wil be severely constrained to deviate much from it.

Bihar in general :

(1) there are at least three distinct sources of explosives expertise and militancy network available for Bihar. These are the Terai based islamist networks which have increased their institutional network on the ground rapidly over the last 3 years. Second group is the transnational criminal networks which connect to BD, Nepal and UP - through Maha to the Gulf. Third are the Maoists.

(2) the Terai is rapidly becoming a "free-zone" and a "base-area" for both the reds and the greens. As far as I am aware, the Chinese have or are going to have their fingers in the region too. Sections of Nepali politics favour this. There will be/are ongoing revival attempts for the far NE, ULFA, and connecting them to the supply-chain network based in southern Nepal. The aim is to create a buffer zone around Nepal inside Indian territory.

(3) Bihar is a key in this scenario. They know they have UP in their hands. They have WB and south Assam. BJP's entry on a larger scale in Bihar may jeopardize the link state in the crucial Gulf-Maha-UP-Bihar-Nepal-WB-BD-NE-Myanmar chain. Note that the red+green foreign forces have less of a problem in their penetration for the other states.

(4) Blasts like these are not operated and executed from a very great distance. There was, is and will be a local network, many parts of which will go into deep hibernation now. Some will have already been processed and shipped into Nepal or to the Gulf through the madrassah and dawa networks. But if ever the national intel speaks the truth - they will probably acknowledge that the planning and execution was mounted from zones quite close - Nepal-Terai sector, with possible inputs from UP.

(5) Delhi, National security setups and JDU will try to blame Modi himself and BJP's supposed extremist factions behind the blasts. The handover of the case to central intel/security agencies may actually only facilitate this twist.

(6) Modi is extremely likely to be "taken down". The internal sense of panic has crossed the point to where they will no longer fear the backlash going actually electorally in favour of BJP. A host of foreign forces also have a stake in stopping NaMo. His very economic/management success makes him a problem for several. BJP leadership should perhaps no longer all be present at a single venue at the same time - and rotate or appear at different and not-predisclosed times even if they do want all to appear on a single platform.

[Rahul M]

The more basic problem is the political control over the agenda of state and central policing. So in a sense, the lack of power you refer to has both its plus and minus points. Minus is what you mentioned. Plus is - that for example Bihar police under various pressures, is not able to use official levers to extract info and cooperation from Gujarat police to frame say Amit shah.

I was talking about the problem with asking Gujarat Police to do the job of VIP security.
so, the 'basic problem' is non-allocation of an effective unit for the job by the central govt and not what you say it is.
one state police can't force another to cooperate, simply because they are equals.
it has nothing to do with politicization.

The army just might - actually do so.

with all due respect, that's one of the most inane things I have heard. it can only come from someone who has zero idea of the cultural ethos of the forces. a simple case of talking through the hat.

even during the worst days of stalinistic state, when party and govt were well neigh inseparable, the army was not ready to aid the emergency. this is one of the reasons IG called for elections, because she couldn't continue to stay in power without the military's help and such help was not forthcoming.

here's someone's writing on the issue that's based on actual research and not talking through the hat.
viewtopic.php?p=1227856#p1227856

[niran]

^^ IIRC, even for the rally, Gujarat police arranged a bulletproof SUV from their stock since Bihar police only had amby's and no SUVs

even that had been taken by niku to Mungier so Guj.polis had to provide their own bullet proof vehicle
if one watches carefully one will observe there were no polis around the blast area, the fourth blast was right in the middle of the crowd the bomber was observed and people rushed to stop him he escaped after the blast one is dazed and blind and deaf for few minutes after a blast. Bihar polis just noded at the data and went away, the clips are supposedly with NIA now.

[merlin]

even during the worst days of stalinistic state, when party and govt were well neigh inseparable, the army was not ready to aid the emergency. this is one of the reasons IG called for elections, because she couldn't continue to stay in power without the military's help and such help was not forthcoming.

here's someone's writing on the issue that's based on actual research and not talking through the hat.
viewtopic.php?p=1227856#p1227856

IA of today is different from IA of that day. If it every comes to that I guess we will all see it.

[Muppalla]

Basics of IA did not change. If Modi wins and someone creates an un-constitutional/constitutional misuse in the name of secularism or something like Egypt's Morbi etc, it may not cut ice in India. President, armed forces are not in the league of helping this crap. But it is the security that will be difficult. The assassination can happen even after getting into power. It depends upon the calculation of stakes for the world's mafia. A biological attack is also not rules out. There are news items of usage of rockets at Kanpur rally.

[Ashok Sarraff]

Cross-posting from NaMo thread:

Please email President and CEC to provide adequate security to Shri Narendra Modi. They are the two most important custodians of democracy and free and fair polling in India.

Request form for the President:

http://www.helpline.rb.nic.in/GrievanceNew.aspx

Election Commission of India contact details:

Email:[email protected]

http://eci.nic.in/eci_main1/contactus.aspx

[Rahul M]

even during the worst days of stalinistic state, when party and govt were well neigh inseparable, the army was not ready to aid the emergency. this is one of the reasons IG called for elections, because she couldn't continue to stay in power without the military's help and such help was not forthcoming.

here's someone's writing on the issue that's based on actual research and not talking through the hat.
viewtopic.php?p=1227856#p1227856

IA of today is different from IA of that day. If it every comes to that I guess we will all see it.

if anything, IA of today is much more down to earth than those of yesteryear.

[Malayappan]

Press conference of RSP today.

He comes up with some information on the security arrangements. Apparently Bihar Police agreed to many SOP items that eventually were not fulfilled.

A good PC, can watch in full, but Rakshaks can jump to 17th minute of the Youtube link to access the info he is sharing..

http://www.niticentral.com/2013/10/30/b ... 52632.html

[Pranay]

http://www.mediacrooks.com/2013/10/mira ... nDwEfk_vCt

Came across the above blog... will also cross post it on the media thread. Very interesting to read the long list of reader reaction to the article...

Character doesn’t develop in a crisis, it reveals it. That is exactly what Narendra Modi and others from BJP showed. They showed patience, courage under fire and kept a huge crowd under extraordinary control. The consequences of a stampede out of fear are unimaginable! Thousands could have been killed in a few minutes. Instead of recognising the maturity of the crowd and leadership that guided them our crony media folks were busy trying to score political points themselves. Every moron who screamed “don’t politicise” was doing exactly that. Extreme moron Rajdeep Sardesai even got Digvijaya Singh next day to heap more nonsense. Knowing the character of Diggy very well if Rajdeep still calls him to comment you know what his real motives are. And there are jokers in the media who were even suggesting BJP would be the beneficiary so fingers were pointed at them. Information so far reveals another Indian Mujahideen episode.

Nitish Kumar’s govt was even stupid enough to say there was no “intel” on the attacks. How silly can this man get? You have Modi, the most targeted politician in India. You have lakhs of people at the rally grounds. You have lakhs of people moving around in the city trying to reach the Maidan. You have people at Bus-stations and Railway stations. Did you not expect serious security issues and threats? Are you that dumb that you claim you need an intel report? And our channels typically debated this so called nonsensical intel report. The only one to point out that in such a case no one even needs an intel report was former Home Secretary RK Singh. It’s like my guests did inform me they were coming but they didn’t tell me they will have tea. So, I didn’t get milk!

[panduranghari]

The agenda has been so firmly set that NM wil be severely constrained to deviate much from it.

Is there no hope then? Also if agenda is set, I believe its the foreigners who have set this agenda?

[brihaspati]

The more basic problem is the political control over the agenda of state and central policing. So in a sense, the lack of power you refer to has both its plus and minus points. Minus is what you mentioned. Plus is - that for example Bihar police under various pressures, is not able to use official levers to extract info and cooperation from Gujarat police to frame say Amit shah.

I was talking about the problem with asking Gujarat Police to do the job of VIP security.
so, the 'basic problem' is non-allocation of an effective unit for the job by the central govt and not what you say it is.
one state police can't force another to cooperate, simply because they are equals.
it has nothing to do with politicization.

I was dealing with the hypothetical scenario that one state's police has the power to ensure cooperation of another state's police. Had such powers existed [lateral coordination rather than through a central agency] they would have been destructive in certain directions while constructive in others.

Even if there was a central mode of catering for such trans-state situations - it would have clashed with the existing law-and-order machinery which is still based on the individual state as it stands. How would you be really able to sanitize a deeply rooted regional violent network just overnight after being flown in without having intel/personnel from that central setup on the ground for some time? This would mean developing interfaces between the central and the state which have common elements. Politicization comes into play here because politicians have traditionally seen such moves as erosion of their powers and grip over the state. Similarly nothing rules out similar agenda on the part of the centre.

The army just might - actually do so.

with all due respect, that's one of the most inane things I have heard. it can only come from someone who has zero idea of the cultural ethos of the forces. a simple case of talking through the hat.

I am not sure you have noted the context of my comment. The posts triggering the comment were about "If there was a Morsi supporter type demo mounted in Delhi" and the army was ordered to do the needful to sanitize the demo if necessary by shooting down violent sections - will the army do it?

If the army's perception of violent apparently popular street demo level supported movements were always so sympathetic to that population's cause - then, the army would not have moved into the Golden temple.

even during the worst days of stalinistic state, when party and govt were well neigh inseparable, the army was not ready to aid the emergency. this is one of the reasons IG called for elections, because she couldn't continue to stay in power without the military's help and such help was not forthcoming.

here's someone's writing on the issue that's based on actual research and not talking through the hat.
viewtopic.php?p=1227856#p1227856

Yes, the author might have interviewed senior officers and seen a consensus. But there has always been expressions of this kind of sympathies or psychological support for perceived legitimate popular causes post factum. Had IG really sought the army in suppressing violent but supposedly popular movements during the emergency? JP's movement and the two cases - one in Gujarat and the other in Bihar that never really took off - were they really that openly violent as Morsi type demos?

I have also come across similar expressions of sympathies. But when compared to actual events, either such situations did not actually arise on the ground to test what the instantaneous reaction of the sympathizers would be, or when they were actually tested out - were found to be in the minority in concrete implementation. Both the Naval mutiny and the aftermath of the Golden temple action should be illustrative.

Much has been made of supposed lack of support from the army for IG's supposed iron-rule. But where was the army really called out to shoot down a Morsi level violent demo that was however reflective of popular anti-emergency sentiments? To really have verifiable research on this aspect, we need to have access to emergency era communications between the PMO and the army, or documentary records of interfaces between the PM and the IA in their completeness [and not selective edited versions] and around events that can be used as test cases. Third party recollections of what supposedly happened in private again is not verifiable for research purposes.

Feelings, sympathies long after the crunch point has passed do not count unless we have means to verify them in real situations. Feelings sympathies may exist all the while other associations amy compel a service person to overrule those feelings in concrete situations on ground.

All I had suggested was that given a Morsi type violent movement launched in Delhi -it "just might" be suppressed by the army if ordered to. Regardless of perceptions of popular support behind such movements.

[ramana]

RahulM,
With due respect to Mr Kundu and his interlocutors, right on the day election results were declared in 1977 Mrs Gandhi ordered an armored brigade to move to Delhi. It was stopped at midnight once it was clear she was losing.
Then there was spin about regular movements of units and stuff but GK Reddy of Hindu put it all in prespective.

The concern is a losing politician can order military but good sense prevailed when it was clear the leader has lost the popular support.

Mt Kundu is talking about military staging a svaymbhu coup. Not in India and that is known.

[sudarshan]

Nov 8- Bahraich, UP
Nov 16- Bangalore, Karnataka
Dec 1- Goa
Dec 8- Punjab

Bahraich is especially worrisome. Goa might be relatively safer, being a BJP state. Bangalore/Punjab? A strategy must be evolving within BJP to deal with the threat revealed in Patna. The rally schedule would be getting more crowded near to the elections, no? Can the task of addressing the masses be relegated to a lesser personality? Or is holographic projection the way to go? The speech could still be a live telecast. I'm sure the crowds would still come to hear Modi (if not to see him in person), and that they would understand his compulsions, especially after the dramatic demonstration in Patna.

[chaanakya]

Five more bombs found at venue of Modi's rally in Patna

PATNA: Five more bombs were recovered from Gandhi Maidan on Tuesday, inflicting huge embarrassment on Bihar Police which had claimed to have sanitized the sprawling ground after Indian Mujahideen's attack on Gujarat CM Narendra Modi's rally on Sunday.

It has been calculated that the IM operatives were carrying 18 bombs including seven which went off during BJP's rally. Four IEDs were recovered during the rally while two were seized and defused by NSG on Sunday and five on Tuesday.

The bombs were recovered from a spot right across the headquarters of the city police which is under attack for leaving gaping holes in the security cover of Modi, who is on the hit list of terror outfits. The fresh recoveries underlined the determination of Tehsin Akhtar aka Monu to set off a stampede in the crowded rally ground so that many, particularly women and children, were killed in the panicked rush.

Maidan was so sanitized by NiKuamma that five more live bombs were recovered post blast. Providing Khatara Amby is against the norms and that shows contempt NiKuamma has for NaMo.

[ramana]

I am not convinced extending SPG security to someone beyond it's mandate is the right thing to do.
one, it would lead to a dilution of its mandate, two, all kind of nautanki walas like mayawati would want it and three, most importantly SPG is already saturated and does not have excess capacity to cater for another protectee.
capability like this can't be expanded on a day's notice and not without an amendment in its laws.

better option would be to create a similarly capable unit within NSG seeded by relevant experts transferred from SPG. that can be done quickly, without needing a change in laws and would be effective.

Its based on threat perception. Mayawati is an elected political leader and if there is threat to her life then she has to be afforded the protection commensurate with the threat.
If SPG is some sacred cow then let it be for only th ePM and Ex PMs and their family. But that cannot be an excuse to exposee other polticians to life ending threats claiming legal helplessness.

----------------------------------
The threat to Rajiv Gandhi was not because he was the former PM, but because he took action against the LTTE in Sri Lanka by sending IPKF. He took that as a national leader not in his individual capacity. And the hazard was LTTE has a stronghold in TN and a friendly state government in DMK at that time. Rajiv Gandhi's vulnerability was he could be killed. When the hazard met the vulenrability it lead to the disaster.

I told above later, to the babu in MHA at that time. He said "We dont think like that. In GOI its all based on tradition and precedent. There is no precedent or tradition of providing protection to political leaders during the election process."

I said in that case what did you do with Mrs Gandhi? IB's job is internal security, counter intelligence, counter-terrorism and political intelligence. As part of all four tasks they should have watched her bodygurads and seek out vulnerabilities. That is the prime function of an internal security agency. If you cant protect your leader how can you protect the state?

He said we have realised that but the price we paid was high.
--------------------

Same way threat to Modi is because in Bihar there is state govt, just like DMK in TN at time of Rajiv Gandhi's death, which is plainly antagonistic to Modi, Bihar has IM running amok and has made many attempts on his life starting with the Isharat Jahan case.

Secularism should not blind one to not do their duty.

[chaanakya]

Patna blasts: security lapses appear basic, and plenty

There were no metal detectors to scan the thousands of people who entered the venue of the rally through 10 entrances.
Patna: Nitish Kumar, the chief minister of Bihar, has unpacked a major controversy by denying that there were any holes in the security arrangements for the massive rally held in Patna on Sunday by his political rival, Narendra Modi, who is the BJP's candidate for Prime Minister. (No intel warning, no security lapses: Nitish on Patna blasts)

But even the most basic precautions appear to have been ignored, with grim consequences.

Mr Modi's public gathering was preceded by a string of crude bomb blasts in which six people were killed and more than 80 injured. (Patna blasts: two arrested, police suspects Indian Mujahideen)

However, Mr Modi kept his date with Patna and the rally began on time.

There were no metal detectors to scan the thousands of people who entered the venue of Mr Modi's rally - Gandhi Maidan -through 10 entrances.

One of the bombs exploded inside the public park near the main entrance. Another was found just 100 feet from the stage and was later defused. Experts point out that for any rally of this size, it's customary for the area near the stage to be "sanitized" or checked carefully by the police.

Sources also say that the police did not conduct required safety and emergency drills ahead of the rally.

Mr Kumar, who ended a 17-year alliance with the BJP in June over its decision to give Mr Modi top billing in its election campaign, has said that there were no intelligence alerts that warned of a possible attack on Sunday.

However, he disclosed that the night before the rally, an abandoned suitcase was found right outside the Gandhi Maidan near Twin Towers, a local landmark that has residential apartments, and added that when he was informed of this, he ordered the police to sweep or check the park and its surrounding areas for any signs of explosives.

NiKuamma is a liar.

[negi]

Modi needs to hire an agency that leases trained sniffer dogs a pack of a dozen such well trained dogs can comb an assembly area in reasonable time. Oh did I mention they have integrity ,honesty and loyalty unlike someone who shall not be named.

[vishvak]

Many Indian experts have noted security threat to Narendra Modi and need to upgrade security cover. The threat level is more than even PM not to mention a few like members of Nehru dynasty.
link
Precedent in international scenario like democracy in USA is also noted.

However a few global news sites have done nothing of this sort.
link
Such 'international' opinions aren't worth paper these are printed on. In fact NY times is spreading mischief and misinformation.

Pointing out obvious about international media even after serial bomb blasts amid huge rallies of NaMo and janaadesh with NaMo/BJP/NDA. The only 'internatinal' miracle in Patna rally is 'international' radio silence of pseudo seculars about it.

[Rahul M]

If the army's perception of violent apparently popular street demo level supported movements were always so sympathetic to that population's cause - then, the army would not have moved into the Golden temple.

if you equate the clearly anti-Indian ISI supported khalistani movement to a popular mass movement then there's not much to add from my side.
I suggest you get hold of Gen Brar's interview to newsx and the justification he gives for the ops.
================

ramana ji, a brigade might be ordered to move and it will obey any and all such orders emanating from proper authority. that only proves IG gave such an order.
putting down innocent citizens of the country is a different kettle of fish altogether. no forces officer would condone such misuse of military power.

coming to the SPG thing, asking for SPG protection for modi might make for good political grandstanding but it's not a practical position. because there's no objective criterion which selects modi but leaves out a dozen other wannabes. PM candidate is not an official position in India. if you provide him SPG protection on the basis of that tomorrow every two-bit party would declare a 'PM candidate' and demand SPG protection.
the practical solution is simply to move relevant experts from SPG to modi's NSG detail and provide him the same level of functional security as SPG does. I find that this is what ex-NSG people are recommending as well.
the NSG act can be modified to make it mandatory for state police to cooperate with NSG in providing security.

btw, IB knew about beant singh's change of heart (in some detail) and had twice recommended his removal from the protective detail. IG put her foot down because she was fond of him and didn't believe the reports. I don't know why the babu didn't share this with you.

[syele]

Moving SPG experts to NSG and providing same level of functional level security as SPG will be more difficult than changing SPG act.

The key difference is that when SPG is involved the local law-enforcement machinery is legally under SPG control and must work as per the requirements. NSG act (or something like that) does not have this provision and cannot legally bind the local law-enforcement machinery like SPG can.

http://www.spg.nic.in/spgact.htm

It shall be the duty of every Ministry and Department of the Central Govt or the State Govt or the Union Territory administration, every Indian Mission, every local or other authority or every civil or military authority to act in aid of the Director or any member of the Group whenever called upon to do so in furtherance of the duties and responsibilities assigned to such Director or member.

[Rahul M]

this is what I wrote.
>> the NSG act can be modified to make it mandatory for state police to cooperate with NSG in providing security.

this is much easier to do than change SPG act to add an arbitrary protectee. we know modi's importance but officially he is just a CM, nothing more !

[RajeshA]

SPG cover should be available to a PM candidate of any parliamentary or pre-poll coalition which has a certain strength in current Parliament, say a hundred MPs, starting from 1 year before the due LS polls or as soon as LS polls become politically inevitable before the year before due date.

So NaMo should have had SPG cover since September 13, 2013. If say a Third-Front comes up and they can agree on a PM candidate, and their strength in Parliament is over 100, then he too should get SPG cover.

This would motivate parties to declare their PM candidates either one year before due date or as soon as possible after that.

[Rahul M]

that's not a bad idea but it assumes this govt wants to provide SPG protection to modi.

[brihaspati]

Rahul M,
the context was very clear. If the army was ordered to put down a MB style mega march violent demo in Delhi - what would it do? popularity of a movement is based on perception. If street demos were measures of popularity - certain phases of the khalistani movement would qualify as popular to certain perceptions. [I am not saying that I use street demos as a measure of popularity.] but where the army questions comes in is exactly on such public-space confrontational situations. Would you not quell a violent crowd when ordered to do so by legitimate political authority if you were a commanding officer because you thought their cause was "legitimate" and they were "innocent"? Or would you sit down and first calculate if the mega-crowd represented a popular movement or not?

I still don't see where we disagree. I am discounting the likelihood of large or significant sections of the army to disobey direct orders from legitimate civilian political authorities - over and above any latent sympathies or perceptions of injustice. At best this should perhaps remain a speculative hypothesis not yet resolved one way or the other - because no political authority went to that brinkmanship to provide reliably verifiable, well-documented and researchable test cases.

SPG cover: Agree. Technically speaking there would be difficulties in extending SPG cover to any "PM candidate" - as from the election commission viewpoint or the constitution, every eligible candidate is a potential PM candidate. If they go by national register of parties [those who secure more than the minimum percentage to qualify] and there is an official statement from the registered parties that so-and-so was their PM candidate - then may be the ambit of the SPG could be changed to include such individuals. But this would bring khujlee from regional parties [those not securing the required percentage nationally but still registered political parties] about their CM candidate too.

[Singha]

Modi was named as machli5 and was a target in blasts. 3 bombs are yet to be found despite best efforts.
http://ibnlive.in.com/news/patna-blasts ... 3-232.html

[brihaspati]

Overall, ground reports suggest sharper polarization between Modi supporters and JD(U) after the blast attempts. Surprising factor could be Laloo as beneficiary. Those who see Nithish as incompetent to stop Modi appears to be thinking of Tejaswi to go for. So, as per beneficiary theory - why should Laloo be kept out of the bag?

There is not much to be gained for Nithish out of getting Modi "removed" in Bihar. He loses either way. But possible lapses - deliberate or incompetence, from sections within the state machinery should be explored.

[Singha]

I feel MSM has taken cues from above and started exposing and targeting Niku now.
here is an example. how come the loin and gatekeeper of sikularism is so bad now?
http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/niti ... 20935.html

[ramana]

RahulM, Very good exposition of the VIP protection system in India and its gaps. And how babus use the language in the Act.

[Karan M]

that's not a bad idea but it assumes this govt wants to provide SPG protection to modi.

Same issue with amending NSG act as well.

[syele]

Any amendment to existing NSG mandate, like adding SPG expertise and addition of legal purview, can also bring requests from all quarters such as Omar Abdullah, Mayavati, Jayalalita etc.

If NSG gets legal oversight on local law-and-order apparatus, SPG expertise and training/equipment then it will become SPG. There will be no need for separate SPG.

Even the 'immediate family' clause of SPG Act w.r.t Indira and Rajiv Gandhi is not followed thoroughly. By one definition Maneka and Varun Gandhi are also eligible for SPG protection.

Someone’s spouse, parents and grandparents, children and grand children, brothers and sisters, mother in law and father in law, brothers in law and sisters in law, daughters in law and sons in law. Adopted, half, and step members are also included in immediate family. See also first degree relative

Read more: http://www.businessdictionary.com/defin ... z2jFC09c2s

The term Family is not defined under the Registration Act. So you have to consider the circumstances of each case separately to assign the meaning to the term family. For example, if you want to register a partition deed of the joint Hindu family property, you have take the meaning of the term Joint family under Hindu Law. If you take a narrow meaning Family would mean children and their parents. In a broad sense it may include grand children, grand parents also. It has to be interpreted with reference to the context.

http://www.lawyersclubindia.com/experts ... nF90Pmkqyw