Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 01 Nov 2013 20:48

archan wrote:I suppose that is a sarcastic remark from Kamaal Khan, right?

Sir, check at his twitter page, I don't think he intended any sarcasm.

muraliravi · Post by **muraliravi** » 01 Nov 2013 20:52

Sushupti wrote:
archan wrote:I suppose that is a sarcastic remark from Kamaal Khan, right?
Sir, check at his twitter page, I don't think he intended any sarcasm.

Exactly, he is as low as it gets. He does not even have the brains to be sarcastic

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 01 Nov 2013 20:53

I wonder what he means by "Once more...". What did Lata Mangeshkar do earlier to piss him off?

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 01 Nov 2013 20:56

nachiket wrote:I meant all of them supporting Modi in his bid for PM..

Yeah they have all had tea with Sonia Gandhi in Lytens lawn after all, going with this clueless brigades fulminations all of them are suspect. (of course Modi has also done that but it will take some one really special like RM to point out that Modi is after all saying the same thing

)

Swapan was till recently the brilliant honest outlier who was fighting with chandan mitra on modi's behalf

and now he is a bad bad man, running dawg of those imperialists.

Who is this joker Vinod Sharma anyway? Why are we subjected to some random twits random tweets so regularly?

disha · Post by **disha** » 01 Nov 2013 20:57

archan wrote:I suppose that is a sarcastic remark from Kamaal Khan, right?

No sir. He is a serial abuser, no sarcasm from the above twit. Death threats (like nipping in bud) and pejoratives (like chaddi-dhari) are common from such twits.

And the above twits are unofficially supported by CongIs. Effectively, the above is an "unofficial statement" from CongI.

Ashok Sarraff · Post by **Ashok Sarraff** » 01 Nov 2013 21:01

Sushupti wrote:

~~I don't think Lata Mangeshkar is a Brahmin.~~ Lata Mangeshkar is not a Brahmin "by birth".

negi · Post by **negi** » 01 Nov 2013 21:04

^ She is iirc she hails from Mangeshi near Ponda, Goa.
However it is sad to see that political pundits in India still talk on lines of Brahmins, Thakurs, Bhoomihars, SC ST etc.

disha · Post by **disha** » 01 Nov 2013 21:04

KJoishy wrote: Muslims really seem to be browning their shalwaars about the possibility of Modi becoming PM. I guess they realize that their holy cow status will be over.

Sir, they are sarkaari "muslims". Like #javedakhtarjadu etc. There is no ummah wide leader after Khomeini and Osama (unless you are a wahaabandi type)., so this vast but underrepresented group is for taking. Do you think Modi being a mass leader will let go of such an opportunity? And IMO he should not.

What Lata did is caused a huge schism in Bollywood. Excellent. The likes of Javed Akhtar have painted themselves into a corner. Remember, bollywood is a soft power - so the churn happening there is good only.

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 01 Nov 2013 21:05

nachiket wrote:I meant all of them supporting Modi in his bid for PM. Anyway, Jaitley's press conference was on Oct 28. The arrested perp hadn't spoken about the assassination thing before that. Jaitley pointed out the horrible behavior of the Bihar Police. And it would have been wrong to speak about the threat to Modi's life so soon after several of the attendees had been killed or wounded.

If there were even "Sutali" cracker blast in the rally of Sonia or Rahul, all the Congress leaders would have raised hell. Dilli leaders of BJP are caught between the dichotomy of dilli-billi commitments vs party commitments.

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 01 Nov 2013 21:07

The "Cong has Tendulkar" lie is still being peddled?

I will not participate in politics even after retirement from cricket : Sachin Tendulkar

"Even after I retire from cricket I have no intention of joining politics or being part of any political rally or campaign because my father wanted me to stay away from politics", Sachin Tendulkar has told his friends in Mumbai through a text message.

Earlier Mumbai Cricket Association President (MCA) President Sharad Pawar had suggested earlier that Tendulkar may not be willing to take part in any political activity. Pawar told ET "As far as I know, Sachin is not keen to campaign for any party. He has no political inclination. He is a Rajya Sabha member nominated by the President. I don't think he will participate in any political campaigning."

Atri · Post by **Atri** » 01 Nov 2013 21:07

Yes.. Mangeshkars belong to Kalawant caste which is subcaste of Goan Marathas.. plus, why bring in brahmin etc in this issue?

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 01 Nov 2013 21:10

Atri wrote:Yes.. Mangeshkars belong to Kalawant caste which is subcaste of Goan Marathas.. plus, why bring in brahmin etc in this issue?

I posted because of comment on Gavaskar regarding voting for Rahul (due to his BCCI interests) and wishing Modi as PM (dil ke aawaz). No intention of brining in Brahmins.

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 01 Nov 2013 21:13

Sushupti wrote: Dilli leaders of BJP are caught between the dichotomy of dilli-billi commitments vs party commitments.

You have tried to cultivate this image of first the ever-changing D4 and now all Delhi BJP leaders on the basis of mischief-mongering tweets by Vinod Sharma and co. (who the hell is he anyway?) even when those leaders have themselves accepted Modi as the PM candidate and defended him when he is attacked by congi goons and the media. If you really want to see Modi and the BJP succeed, what you are doing is counter-productive. I hope you understand that.

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 01 Nov 2013 21:15

KJo · Post by **KJo** » 01 Nov 2013 21:20

Ashok Sarraff wrote:
Sushupti wrote:

~~I don't think Lata Mangeshkar is a Brahmin.~~ Lata Mangeshkar is not a Brahmin "by birth".

Lata Mangeshkar, Sunil Gavaskar and Sachin Tendular are all Goud Saraswat Brahmins from Goa region.

negi · Post by **negi** » 01 Nov 2013 21:23

Sushupti wrote:

Ye hai sala 50s ke zamane ka Atif Aslam fan. There are thousands of this type on internet who think Atif Aslam is better than Sonu Nigam.

KJo · Post by **KJo** » 01 Nov 2013 21:23

Why this ire from many towards LM? Is this a paid drama by Cong?

archan · Post by **archan** » 01 Nov 2013 21:24

Brahminness is anyway a state of mind.

negi · Post by **negi** » 01 Nov 2013 21:26

A lot of Pakis have no one to look upto, they cannot idolize Lata for obvious reasons so they try go out of their way to show how they love Rafi and that he has been conspired against as he was not given Bharat Ratna. Basically trying to shoot from a giant like Rafi's shoulders just because he was a Muslim. On similar lines they have no friggin freedom fighter of their own unless Jihadis qualify so they kind of try hard to show how Bhagat Singh was a Pakistani just because he was born there I mean aise to ek aur hai jo wahan paiada hua hai use bhi le jao.

archan · Post by **archan** » 01 Nov 2013 21:29

KJo, just curious, how would you club the Muslims from Gujarat who have spoken in favor of your preferred candidate? are they also crapping their pants? or are they not Muslim?
It is disappointing coming from a member like you.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 01 Nov 2013 21:58

brahminness is only a post state analysis point. firstly, the associated entity - i.e, brahmin is state-less.. meaning brahmins have no state representation nor has a model that represents him/herself (human form onlee) in a state. no legal attribution, specified, that he has any state other than just being a citizen to vote. a brahmin has no quota to get a state representation in any model, let alone mental model.

disha · Post by **disha** » 01 Nov 2013 22:03

http://www.telegraphindia.com/1131101/j ... nPdL_nkvDs

LOOKING FOR CHANGE

Malvika Singh
Narenda Modi’s Hunkar Rally in Patna was an unbelievably large gathering of people that seemed to send out an unspoken message: we are tired of shoddy governance and the apparent political and administrative confusion. Looking for change seems to be the driving urge across the states of India. The intelligentsia continues to suggest that what is happening at Modi rallies everywhere is an aberration. Their argument is that people are curious and are congregating to hear him speak, but the ‘numbers’ and prevalent caste equations nullify the possibility of a decisive win for Modi. However, the people of India are listening and hearing. The counter rallies, where old, tired ‘leaders’ join hands to condemn the politics and ideology of Modi and the Bharatiya Janata Party, are not an attractive alternative because the leaders continue to repeat what they have been saying and promising for decades.

Apart from the chatteratti and the burgeoning middle class that seem to be rooting for Modi to become the next prime minister, the rural youth that aspires to become ‘middle-class’ and urban is also drawn towards him and may well tilt the balance in his favour. Whether we like it or not, Modi has orchestrated how the forthcoming general elections will be fought. He has structured it much like a presidential contest within a parliamentary frame. India, as always, is quite flexible and may well vote differently for the throne in New Delhi. Chances are that state elections will be issue-based and on the parameters of caste and community, but for the general elections, votes will be in favour of a ‘national leader’.

If that be the case, and as things seem to stand on the ground today, there is no single leader or ‘face’ that can counter Modi. The Congress and other regional satraps keep insisting that the Indian democracy works within the parliamentary format and is not a presidential system, and therefore, Modi will not be able to swing the votes in his favour, but this is helping Modi cross the threshold and keep up a momentum that may well take him past the post.

Big mystery

Modi’s opposition is the United Progressive Alliance, the reputation of which has been sullied many times over, both politically and at the administrative level. The constituents of a ‘new’ India are eager to get on with their lives and live in a dignified social environment. The country seems to be determined to bring in ‘change’, in spite of the absence of good choices and viable alternatives.

Why are there no good alternatives for the people of India? Why are all the other leaders looking helpless and dazed by the rollercoaster ride that Modi is orchestrating? India is looking for new faces, new promises and a new vision. It is tired of the stale and repetitive rhetoric it has been subjected to for so many decades.

To take Modi lightly will be the biggest mistake the Congress can make because, if it loses the election and is able to get no more than 100-odd seats, the party will fall apart. Equally, if ‘Moditva’ fails, the BJP will be forced to transform its image into something else. India is at a critical juncture in its political history and many surprises are bound to be sprung. However, one feels that Modi, not the BJP, has a huge lead at this moment. If a surprise kicks in — and politics is never static — the lead could alter.

Many cannot fathom why the Congress is not accepting the challenge to fight for the gaddi in Delhi. Why is the Congress ignoring the large middle class base that it created? Why is it pushing that large chunk of voters into the arms of Modi and the BJP? What is the Congress strategy for the polls? These and many other questions remain unanswered.

Why? O' Why? O' Why why why ...

Vikas · Post by **Vikas** » 01 Nov 2013 22:08

Lata Tai should not be dragged into this kind of conversation. She is gift of God to Bharat just Rafi ji was.
Why show screen grab of all and sundry Twidiots who get this urge to spit at Sun.

Pakis and some WKK type Indians have this constant urge to somehow diminish Indian brilliance and bring in some Muslim or Paki character in conversation. I wonder who are Pakis going to compare NaMo with from their Land once he is elected PM of India.
So it is always...
KD - Immy Dim
Rajiv - Benazir
Sonia - Zardari
LM - Noorjahan
MMS - US citizen who became Paki PM
SRT - Inzy

The list is unending in comparison..

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 01 Nov 2013 22:32

Atri, once again we have meet in OFF topic dhaaga

I will reply there.

KJo · Post by **KJo** » 01 Nov 2013 22:34

archan wrote:KJo, just curious, how would you club the Muslims from Gujarat who have spoken in favor of your preferred candidate? are they also crapping their pants? or are they not Muslim?
It is disappointing coming from a member like you.

archan, I must clarify. I was talking about the prominent ones like Javed Akthar types along with the people who have been cultivated by Mulayam Singh for vote bank purposes. They have been given benefits for years and years just because they were Muslim. Haj money is an example. I think that many people feel that this status and benefits that they now have because of Congress vote bank politics will go away if Modi wins. No one knows if Modi will actually remove these, but I can feel the fear.

I don't think any Indian (Muslim or Hindu or whatever) really believes that NaMo will begin a
"pogrom" on Muslim, just the Pakis believe that.

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 01 Nov 2013 22:39

KJoishy wrote: I don't think any Indian (Muslim or Hindu or whatever) really believes that NaMo will begin a
"pogrom" on Muslim, just the Pakis believe that.

Well, many of them just might believe that. The media and Leftist/Cong goons like Teesta Setalvad carried out a hit job of epic proportions after the Gujarat riots. I wouldn't be surprised if a majority of Muslims believe that Modi was really responsible for what happened. Congress as usual is capitalizing on it by scaring the Muslims into voting for them. The best way to do this is to make them believe that Modi is a monster. Looking at it from the Muslim point of view, the media has never given them any reason not to trust it. So telling them that the media and the Congress is lying, doesn't work no matter how true it is. They must be fed up with bad governance and corruption just like everybody else. But they have been made to believe it is a life-and-death issue for them when it comes to voting, because Modi and the BJP is out for blood. So they set everything else aside and vote for the spinmasters.

Agnimitra · Post by **Agnimitra** » 01 Nov 2013 22:51

KPS Gill, former security adviser to Modi, gives him clean chit on riots

The so called dharm-nirapeksh (secular) parties were taking advantage of the fact that Mr Modi follows the principles of Hindutva. They were portraying Hindutva as something anti non-Hindu religions. My understanding was that Mr Modi's practising of principles of Hindutva in no way meant that he would allow killing people of other religions... Today Gujarat is one of the best administered states not only for Hindus but for all religions and all castes. The credit for this goes to only and only Mr Modi.

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 01 Nov 2013 22:52

Tehelka lives up to the expectation

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 01 Nov 2013 22:54

negi wrote:^ She is iirc she hails from Mangeshi near Ponda, Goa.
However it is sad to see that political pundits in India still talk on lines of Brahmins, Thakurs, Bhoomihars, SC ST etc.

It is not sad actually, because it is the most effective way. I had similar ideas about using caste in politics etc. But I have come to realize it is the way humans work across the World.

As you know in USA, in the elections specific groups are targeted with specific messages. For example a message to one Christian population in one region might not be sent across to rest of the Christians in the country. It is called "microtargeting" from one sense.
http://www.newscientist.com/blogs/onepe ... eting.html

In another sense, it is also termed "narrowcasting" http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/t ... owcasting/

There is a nice PBS documentary on "Persuaders" that analyzes some of the tactics used by the marketing gurus.

http://quizlet.com/4997125/new . Check out Frank Luntz and what he has done. Also you might want to check Clotaire Rapaille's reptilian marketing, culture code ityadi. This is big, real big.

Out in the West, they have realized even when it comes to drugs & pharma, one drug just cannot be a fit for everyone. Like in Ayurveda where there are different doshas that are considered as a factor for treatment, there is research to develop drugs that are "personal". What works for a black population might not work best in Asian population. Ityadi itadyi.

Now take all these into account and look at caste. Our politicians without these advertisers, researches and excerpts have for a long time realized the narrowcasting/microtargeting helps them. And in Indian conditions, the caste is the group that they can break down their policies and ideas for. Obviously, they cannot speak for each individual.

Where things get wrong is when they use these microtargeting to pit one community against another. Hindus vs Muslims. Brahmins vs Non-Brahmins etc. Modi is trying to break the Hindus vs Muslims.

Emotions are what makes Humans the way they are. Emotions cannot be removed from humans. And democratic elections use emotions to win. They are not fought on practical issues. For example if Congress comes out to say "I will build 10,000 Kms of railway lines". What is BJP to do? It cannot say "I will build 11,000 kms of railway". People are not known to get excited to see the difference of 1,000 additional km of railway line to go out and vote.

Once we understand these emotive issues are what will be used for elections, then we can at least worry about divisive and discriminatory promises and policies.

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 01 Nov 2013 22:56

panduranghari · Post by **panduranghari** » 01 Nov 2013 22:58

Inder Sharma wrote:PVNR needs to be appropriated by the Right

I hope it happens.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 01 Nov 2013 23:00

VikasRaina wrote:Lata Tai should not be dragged into this kind of conversation. She is gift of God to Bharat just Rafi ji was.

An OT. Several decades ago, I witnessed a discussion on who has a better voice "MS Subbulakshmi or Lata Mangeskar".

johneeG · Post by **johneeG** » 01 Nov 2013 23:13

archan wrote:I suppose that is a sarcastic remark from Kamaal Khan, right?

Nope.

----
I think Savarkar was a man of his times. His ideas, I don't think, are very relevant now. Some of his ideas may be useful, but I think the social conditions have largely changed, so most of his ideas, I think, would be outdated. I confess, I haven't read his works, so its just my presumptions.

About Patel, I think there was lot of taqqiya going on the kangrez. It seems to me that he was a mole(from the Garam Dhal) in the naram dhal. He would not have survived in the naram dhal, if it were not for this pretension. I am sure many others did a similar pretense to stay relevant after having seen what happened to Thilak.

Similarly, Mothi seems to have been a naram mole in Garam Dhal for some time.

Anyway, the decision to ask for undertaking from RSS not to come into politics seems absurd to me regardless of who was behind it. It is simply undemocratic. If RSS was the culprit(provable in court), then ban it. If it was not, then no body has the right to ban it or to demand it not to enter. Even if RSS had given undertaking, I don't think it has any relevance now because such an undertaking shouldn't be asked by the sarkaar in the first place.

No doubt, Patel would have proven a much better PM than chacha. What is amazing is that chacha's peers were all dead miraculously as if a hidden hand was clearing the path for him. Gandhi died, Patel died, Shyama Mukherjee died, ...etc. Only the chacha and those who did not threaten the chacha survived.

----
Chanakya saar,
check out the discussions about Chandragupta in OIT thread.

Link to post
Link to another post

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 01 Nov 2013 23:14

I think the attacks on Patna Rally is to create a stampede and riots later. Both could have been very useful to politically finish off NaMo. Specific targeting of him is not possible with the level of training etc the killers got. There was talk of suicide bombers. But we will never know this. The attacks using suicide bombers could have been more chances. But fortunately they could not carry it out. Somehow I have a gut feeling that these were a hastily done attacks.

Mafia came into power in Ranchi resently. so safe place in Ranchi is avaliable resently only. Matkal arrested and obviously there must have been some disruption in planing, organising etc.

Possibility of mafia organising these attacks is of course always there. It seems they lost their killing expertise nowadays.
Mafia and their jihadists friends played their hand early. Now NM will be double careful.

They don't have

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 01 Nov 2013 23:37

johneeG wrote: I think Savarkar was a man of his times. His ideas, I don't think, are very relevant now. Some of his ideas may be useful, but I think the social conditions have largely changed, so most of his ideas, I think, would be outdated. I confess, I haven't read his works, so its just my presumptions.

Why do you think so? A few of his ideas may not be practical now, but he felt like a man ahead of his times in many ways. Read his "Vidnyaannishtha Nibandha" if you get the chance.This isn't the thread to discuss him though. You can reply in OT thread I guess.

You can check out this link as well. It describes many of his ideas in English as well as Marathi.: http://www.savarkar.org/en/veer-savarkar

sudarshan · Post by **sudarshan** » 01 Nov 2013 23:40

panduranghari wrote:
Inder Sharma wrote:PVNR needs to be appropriated by the Right
I hope it happens.

Dheere se. All non-dynasty Congress PMs should be "brought over." LBS & PVNR. Also any future Congress PM aspirants should be left with no choice but to define themselves as nationalists. Isolate the dynasty as an (anti-national) aberration in India's history.

ashish raval · Post by **ashish raval** » 01 Nov 2013 23:57

From last few days I have started seeing secularist pack of wolves gang up on every platform around to fight against a Gabbar sher, Modi. Unmatched example proving that humans are in fact animals.

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 02 Nov 2013 00:03

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 02 Nov 2013 00:05

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 02 Nov 2013 00:23