Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

[SwamyG]

Oh, puleeze, we know each other well enough to know where we stand w.r.t. NM. We also know we don;t have to agree on every single nuance, besides. So why worry, have curry...

Saar, okay. To me he is a politician. He is good, no doubt. And I will cheer him heartily. But if somebody is going to say that he falls at people's feet, and that is one metric to measure his quality, then I have my own opinion. That's all. Am I a cynic? Yes, a little bit. A healthy dose.

[SaiK]

SwamyG, It is common in India to see the less powerful bow to the more powerful. Rarely the other way around.

power is in the knowledge and the power is in leadership in addition to the power that comes way of existence and seniority. LKji has still powers, but now equals MMS in actions and deeds.

[Yagnasri]

In north India people touch the feet of elders etc as a mark of respect. Touching feet of JJ, NTR, etc is for feudal show. Modi is born and brought up in a culture wherein touching feet of elders etc is least thing you do. In south it is not there.

[SaiK]

In SI, it was only after proselytization increased, the mass felt touching the feet was un-modern... actually infused by you may know who the forces are to be for this. Actually, NI only touch feet, SI they do shaastang.

[Gus]

it can be argued whether falling at one's feet is a genuine indication of some virtue or not...but it is to be noted that virtually no other politician does it in the proper way - a mark of humility to an elder.

idiot tn sundry people falling at JJ's feet is NOT the same as NM doing it to an elder. it is the opposite.

[Gus]

in fact, even if he is not 'genuinely humble' - the fact that he is willing to fall at an elders feet, is good enough for me..at least he is willing to put himself through that...something that none of our leaders who otherwise profuse humility, cannot bring themselves to do it.

[SaiK]

tn sundry is a two factor authentication for amma fanatism, and nothing out of respect out of some traditional practice. btw, i doubt she can even bend to touch anyone else's feet. her ego will only make she can fight even the highest religious order just to satisfy and show her power.

she is a crazy person so to speak. she is very dicey.. and can fall on any direction. not a stable stateofmind at all. to me she scares as a PM more than CM of TN. definitely not a role model for a national high post.

[SwamyG]

she is a crazy person so to speak. she is very dicey.. and can fall on any direction. not a stable stateofmind at all. to me she scares as a PM more than CM of TN. definitely not a role model for a national high post.

She is crazy like hell. You never know if you are going to see the good or evil side of her. I would be more scared of Subramanian Swamy.

[abhik]

ISI might use Doggy Singh too!

Or Doggy Raja might use the ISI.

[kapilrdave]

Should we expect tonight the debates in media discussing why on earth ISI would want to kill modi? To benefit cong? But why would ISI benifit cong?

But such interesting debates might not interest them it I think.

[Singha]

I have had enough of fumble mumble humble PMs in terms of ABV/MMS always being apologetic for things not our fault and talking of "minimum credible deterrence" always preferring to lie low while others act first steal and then act aggressive if caught.

I want a real door-kicker bad boy as a PM who kicks butt and gets impossible things done. huge challenges we face need that type of character...everyone might hate him but everyone will know he can lead and get things done. we need a visionary and a micromanager rolled into one. we need superman+batman+darkseid+green lantern+arjuna+grodd+bheema in one.

[Hari Seldon]

I have had enough of fumble mumble humble PMs in terms of ABV/MMS always being apologetic for things not our fault and talking of "minimum credible deterrence" always preferring to lie low while others act first steal and then act aggressive if caught.

I want a real door-kicker bad boy as a PM who kicks butt and gets impossible things done. huge challenges we face need that type of character...everyone might hate him but everyone will know he can lead and get things done. we need a visionary and a micromanager rolled into one. we need superman+batman+darkseid+green lantern+arjuna+grodd+bheema in one.

+1. Brilliantly articulated....

[VikramS]

BTW those of you dealing with the AAP guys, the clerik slip is a big break.

Point them to this blog post http://satyameva-jayate.org/2010/03/13/bareilly/ or
his claim to fame about awards on Tasleema and Dubya's head
http://www.milligazette.com/news/8279-s ... mas-murder

All for his supposed influence on BD votes in Delhi.

Hammer them on identity based vote bank politics and no viable vision except gas.
He is praying on their need for a messiah and the MSM's ==..
Highlight that HarshVardhan is an honest clean person who actually achieved something (Pulse Polio eradication) compared to this gas bag who has been ditched by all his IAC partners.

[Neela]

Saar, okay. To me he is a politician. He is good, no doubt. And I will cheer him heartily. But if somebody is going to say that he falls at people's feet, and that is one metric to measure his quality, then I have my own opinion. That's all. Am I a cynic? Yes, a little bit. A healthy dose.

Ooops you did it again. .
Hokkay lets move on shall we.
x----x

Never liked the UK. But when the (creepy crawly) UK PM wants to visit Modi, a CM of a state, it has an uneasy feeling to it. Nevertheless it is a sign of things to come I think because these lot do their own assessment of the upcoming elections and make guesses on which way the wind might blow.

[Vayutuvan]

IAt RG functions, old women come to touch his feet, at max he tries to stop them, not do the reverse.

Just the other day I witnessed the spectacle of a Pakistani Sindhi young man (he is younger than moi) making the motion of touching the feet of a S. Indian old and wise gent. It was an "ati vinayam dhUrta lakshaNam" moment for me. I went and gave a hug to the wise guruji and he was all smiles in contrast to the shrugging off of the "feet toughing praNAm" of the Pakistani gent.

Sometimes - depending on the occasion - I do touch the feet of older people. Solemnity of the occasion, sincerity of the person doing the praNAm, and the perception of the receiving person are some of the factors that matter.

In case of CM Modi ji, the sincerity is palpable to even casual onlookers plus it comes through amply even in the video feed.

[syele]

Majority of Indian elite especially the British educated consider India as a federal parliamentary democracy along with queen as the monarchy. One can see this mindset slipping out from interviews of Karan Thaper, Prannoy Roy etc.

Sonia Sing of NDTV tweeted, with tongue-in-cheek, yesterday that "Another PM candidate in the offing" sighting David Cameron celebrating Diwali in London.

[Neela]

I want a real door-kicker bad boy as a PM who kicks butt and gets impossible things done.

you mean like this?

[svenkat]

http://rahulgandhijokes.wordpress.com/

Mods,please delete if inappropriate or has already been posted.

[kapilrdave]

For those who think NM is showing false humility by touching feet of elders, this is not a new thing from NM. He has been doing this since as far as I can recall - that is even before becoming CM. When he became CM there were headlines in local papers saying "Namo ane saune gamo" which means "bow to be liked by everyone". "namo" in Gujarati means bowing so that went well with NaMo . This was in context of him being chosen for CM and his habit to touch feet of elders of his party. However, no one other than himself can tell this humility is false or true.
-----------------------------------------------------------

Regarding ISI wanting to assassinate NM, that is not a small thing IMO. That is very big thing given NM is merely a PM candidate of an opposition party. I can't recall any precedence in which any country had attempted to assassinate an enemy country's non-ruling PM/prez candidate. Tells us how comfortable they are with the current establishment. Questions must be asked in open that why ISI would want to kill NM? It is not as if he is talking about nuking pak for anthing. He is talking about only development. And he wants even muslims also to prosper. So 'm-brotherhood' is also not an excuse.

[Singha]

Neela I meant this

Above all, we should bear in mind that our liberty is not an end in itself; it is a means to win respect for human dignity for all classes of our society. (my addition - and this is something the handout and bheekh culture of JLN socialism sorely missed)

More than ambition, more than ability, it is rules that limit contribution; rules are the lowest common denominator of human behavior. They are a substitute for rational thought.

Sit down before fact with an open mind. Be prepared to give up every preconceived notion. Follow humbly wherever and to whatever abyss Nature leads, or you learn nothing. Don't push out figures when facts are going in the opposite direction.

or this


I have learned to use the word 'impossible' with the greatest caution.

[Singha]

without cheating, id these two late gents.

[a_bharat]

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/new ... 252590.cms

NEW DELHI: BJP today raked up another controversy over Sardar Patel with L K Advani quoting a book to allege that then Prime Minister Jawaharlal Nehru called his Home Minister a "total communalist" when the latter suggested that army be sent to take over a defiant Hyderabad after Independence.

In his latest blog posting, Advani has referred to extracts of a book - "The Story of an Era Told without Ill Will" by M K K Nair which deals with the "sharp exchange" between Nehru and Patel in a Cabinet meeting before "police action" against Hyderabad.

The Nizam, who wanted to accede to Pakistan, had sent an emissary to the neighbouring country and transferred a huge sum of money to the government there.

The Nizam's officials were reportedly heaping atrocities on locals.

"At a cabinet meeting, Patel had described these things and demanded that army be sent to end the terror-regime in Hyderabad. Nehru who usually spoke calmly, peacefully and with international etiquette, spoke losing his composure, 'You are a total communalist.I will never accept your recommendation...

"Patel remained unperturbed but left the room with his papers," Advani says, quoting from Nair's book.
...
As the situation continued to worsen, Rajaji called Nehru and Patel to Rashtrapati Bhawan to discuss the issue. Meanwhile, the army was kept battle-ready.

During his meeting with Nehru and Patel, Rajaji used a letter from the British High Commissioner protesting against the rape of 70-year-old nuns of a convent two days earlier by Razakars of Hyderabad.
...
"Nehru read it. His face turned red... Anger choked his words.He shot out of his chair, slammed his fist on the table and cried out, 'Let's not waste a moment. We'll teach them a lesson'.

This behavior of Nehru underscores two of his characteristics:
- cowardice: worrying about international repercussions, instead of doing the right thing.
- wanting to be a "statesman" at the expense of the country (quite a few Indian PMs including the present one seem to have inherited this quality).

For Nehru rape, pillage and murder of Hindus is OK; one would be branded communal if he seeks action against razakars. If the victim is a nun, it is a whole new equation for him and the pseculars.

What an ****ole we got as our first PM.

[Rahul M]

first one is hyman rickover, father of US nuke sub program.

2nd one, dunno.

well, we did have a string of such leaders and visionaries in space and to a limited extent defence development. it's the politics field that is lagging.

[Neela]

Singha
The second made a visit to Thumba.
Rocketman Braun.

[Rahul M]

looks very diff in that pic.

[Sanku]

Singha
The second made a visit to Thumba.
Rocketman Braun.

Braun has been something like a icon to me, even before this book came out.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_(novel)

[harbans]

This behavior of Nehru underscores two of his characteristics:
- cowardice: worrying about international repercussions, instead of doing the right thing.
- wanting to be a "statesman" at the expense of the country (quite a few Indian PMs including the present one seem to have inherited this quality).

You missed the most important part: Nehru changed his mind after the letter from the British High commissioner regarding rape of nuns by Razakars. Same attitude our MSM and elite has. Only after some Gora approval they act. Till that point of time when Patel was reasoning the same over and over again he was a communalist, but once a Gora started protesting, he hardened and resolved to take action. While an Islamist sees everything in life through the prism of the Koran/ Hadith, the Nehruvian sees everything through the prism of a Gora.

[Neela]

From twitter:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEMFmih3LsE

Two comments there:

kannadabond 1 month ago
I watched this 100 times and now I am feeling the politics in my shirt.....yet to feel it in my pants and chaddi

mozheart 1 month ago
MMS should teach him to be quiet.

[krishnan]

From twitter:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEMFmih3LsE

Two comments there:

kannadabond 1 month ago
I watched this 100 times and now I am feeling the politics in my shirt.....yet to feel it in my pants and chaddi

mozheart 1 month ago
MMS should teach him to be quiet.

suresh bhat 1 week ago

are bhai.... mummy ne shirt aur chaddi pehnate waqt bataya hoga ki POLITICS IS EVERYWHERE!!.. ye bata raha tha apna rahul!!

[Mahendra]

Rahul '****h icon' shows sycophant his place

This is how we should treat elders, touching feet is so indic and old fashioned

[Comer]

NaMo is the first of the blocks to congratulate ISRO

[KLNMurthy]

Modi is actually behaving like a human being, and that's a huge change from the power mad politicos we are used to, surrounded by sycophants.

+1 saar.

As a rule, it is true we can't take any single gesture by a politician to jump to some conclusion about that person's suitability as a leader. But that is not what I see people saying here about Modi's touching-the-feet gesture.

According to Modi's opponents, everything Modi is doing, including the feet-touching, is a drama to get elected, including the bombings in Patna, and at the right moment, he will tear off the mask and go, "hahhahha! I am now Hitler, bow down and prostrate before me you fools!"

They may be proved right, (or they may be very silly deracinated people frightened that their utter lack of qualification and employability will be exposed, cutting off the ground beneath their feet) but until there is evidence that this will happen, we should go by what we are seeing and judge on that basis. So, taking note of foot-touching is part of that evidence-noting process. Most reasonable people will, I think, look at the spontaneous and unpretentious way in which he did the gesture as corroboration of his claim that he is a servant and not master of the people.

It also says something about how he views the people of India--not as faceless helpless masses crying for a helping hand of charity, but as respectable people with family and culture and standards, who happen to be poor, and could use help getting out of poverty, but would disdain the idea of becoming beggars or thieves.

For the Indian people, the culture of family and respectability is deeply ingrained. That it is deeply engrained is both a plus and a minus. Plus because it comes automatically without having to constantly solve the problem of "how do I behave in this particular situation?" for each and every case. Minus because when put under desperate stress and made to feel that his survival is at stake, every living being will opt for survival, and the human is ready to surrender his core self; at such a time, if you are not verbally aware (in your rational mind) of your culture and its worth, then you may not even realize what you are giving up, for the sake of survival--or what is made to seem like survival at that particular moment. (If you realized it, then you may choose to re-examine your decision; after re-examination, if you still decide to consciously give up your culture and respect, then at least you have exercised some ownership over yourself, as Raja Harischandra did when he decided to sell himself into slavery. Making that choice, by itself, is redeeming, paradoxically enough; this is one reason why Harishchandra is a punya-purusha.)

The point of this digression, brought on by the discussion of Modi's gesture, is that poverty makes the respectable Indian vulnerable to surrendering his culture and respect. The average Indian politician is an insensitive, wicked and unscrupulous creature, whose career consists of creating that vulnerability and then jumping to take advantage of that vulnerability by turning the Indian from a respectable though poor person of family and culture into an abject recipient of charity and a hankerer after other people's earnings. The "benefit" for the politician is that he has turned a free and dignified person into a slave, albeit the kind of slave who knows deep down he has been tricked into selling himself much too cheaply, hence there is no love lost between this newly-made slave and his political master.

My sense of Modi is that he is very different from this run-of-the-mill standard breed of politicians. I feel that he instinctively understands the predicament of the aam Bharatiya who is inherently respectable and dignified but poor. Perhaps this is what is meant by his slogan of "asmita"--a term which can have negative connotations in higher spiritual practice but can also mean something like a healthy sense of self and respect for oneself, and a desire for the person to be independent and self-sustaining. It is what is broadly called conservative philosophy in the West, but actually something that is core Bharatiya culture--the Aarya speaks the truth and treads the paths of righteousness, and material independence is a pillar for that aarya-dharma.

The foot-touching gesture can be seen as a window into this unique characteristic represented by Modi.

[Neela]

Great post KLMMurthy-ji. KaranM's post also captured the mood & the person quite well.
I must also admit here that I did not think so much can be written about Modi's gesture to the bomb blast victim.
But I did see the video and I found the body language genuine.
There was no obvious or subtle enforcement of hierarchy - this is essential for compassion. He went there & plonked right in front of the relative.

[Sachin]

Rahul '****h icon' shows sycophant his place

If Ambareesh got this, then good for him as well . BTW, I did remember reading long time back that this fellow Ambareesh had minimal (or practically NIL) attendance at the Parliament.

[vivek.rao]

http://www.firstpost.com/politics/modi- ... ef_article
Modi wave in Jammu

Not only has an unanticipated popularity wave favouring BJP’s Prime Ministerial candidate Narendra Modi swept the Jammu region and its adjoining areas, but this rising popularity of Modi has also forced arch-rival Congress to significantly change its strategy. “Hardly any other national leader has dominated the popular imagination of people of Jammu as Modi ji has. Even in the rural areas of Jammu, where people have been facing the wrath of mortar shells from Pakistan, I can tell you that we will wipe out the Congress from the political map of Jammu in 2014,” says BJP MLA Ashok Khajuria. To counter the Modi wave, the PDP and the Congress both have indicated that they will field Brahmin candidates for the Parliamentary elections. Caste politics is important in the winter capital, though the ruling National Conference remains unsure. The Congress, which was claiming until recently that it is the “only choice” for the people, is now feeling the heat. Political analysts say the Modi wave in Jammu has unnerved the Congress party and it now wants to consolidate its base in the Hindu dominated areas of Jammu where Modi’s popularity is the strongest in the state. The Modi wave has forced the Congress to woo retired bureaucrats, leaders of other political parties “who have a strong base in Jammu”. Analysts say the present eagerness shown by the Congress is understandable, their desperation apparent. In fact, the list of people who joined the Congress in Jammu recently was given a go-ahead by party president Sonia Gandhi herself. “The Modi factor has cast a paranormal spell over the local mindset in Jammu region and is somehow irking the Congress’s plans,” a senior political analyst says. Saffron politics has seldom dominated the political discourse of Jammu & Kashmir, except in the 2008 General Assembly elections when the BJP took its tally from 1 to 11 as it derived full mileage out of the Amarnath land row, for the first time in the history of electoral politics in Jammu and Kashmir. Its tally before that had been a single elected legislator. But this time around, the state unit of the party has been hardselling its Prime Ministerial candidate with much rigour in Jammu. The party has also begun earnest preparations for a first-ever grand rally by the BJP in Jammu, to be addressed by Modi.

[Arjun]

So, the only person to run down one of India's most significant technological achievements also happens to be the head of the Dynasty think tank: How the Mars mission helps India

Others like economist-activist Jean Dreze have said the mission "seems to be part of the Indian elite's delusional quest for superpower status

[Sushupti]

INTERVIEW-Indian minister likens rise of PM candidate Modi to Third Reich

http://www.trust.org/item/20131105130235-jekkg/

[SaiK]

If I am not in violation of copyright, I would like to post this in full text-

INTERVIEW-Indian minister likens rise of PM candidate Modi to Third Reich

http://www.trust.org/item/20131105130235-jekkg/

INTERVIEW-Indian minister likens rise of PM candidate Modi to Third Reich
Source: Reuters - Tue, 5 Nov 2013 01:46 PM
Author: Reuters
hum-war

By Frank Jack Daniel and Mayank Bhardwaj

NEW DELHI, Nov 5 (Reuters) - The Indian government stepped up its criticism of leading opposition prime-ministerial candidate Narendra Modi on Tuesday, painting him as a dangerous extremist and comparing his rise to the birth of Nazi Germany in the 1930s.

Modi's critics have long sought to associate the Hindu nationalist leader with fascism and blame him for anti-Muslim riots in 2002 that killed at least 1,000 people. He denies any wrongdoing in the riots and a Supreme Court investigation found no evidence to prosecute him.

The broadsides from two senior ministers follow a series of large political rallies by Modi and a string of opinion polls forecasting a poor performance by the government in state elections starting next week and a general election expected by April.

The ruling Congress party's own campaign has yet to pick up much steam.

Jairam Ramesh, a senior cabinet minister close to the leadership of the Congress party, said Modi's career reminded him of the rise of the Third Reich, the strongest comments yet by a minister of his rank.

"Political autocracy, social divisiveness and economic liberalism. That's Mr. Modi reduced to three dimensions," Ramesh told Reuters. "Exactly what created the autobahns and the Volkswagens in the 30s but also created the disaster of Germany.

"India right now in 2013 - I would say we are going through what Germany went through in 1932."

Modi's Bharatiya Janata Party, which ruled with a moderate prime minister between 1998 and 2004, says Congress has a worse record on autocracy, including a period when former Prime Minister Indira Gandhi suspended democratic rights in the 1970s.

"They keep going on about fascism and Hitlerism, rather than addressing the issue of the day - misgovernance," BJP spokeswoman Meenakshi Lekhi said in response to the minister's comments.

In large rallies across the country, Modi has been campaigning on his record of fast economic growth as chief minister of the state of Gujarat, promising to create jobs and help India become a global power, while attacking the government for a string of corruption scandals.

He contrasts his modest background as a tea-boy and political outsider to the Nehru-Gandhi family dynasty that runs the Congress party. Last month, bombs exploded at one of his rallies, killing six people and raising worries about his safety. Investigators blame Islamic militants for the attack.

Modi has close ties to the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS), a right-wing group that sees India as primarily a Hindu country, a view that many consider divisive in the multi-religious nation. The group has long backed the BJP but some commentators believe it is now taking a larger role in politics.

Ramesh said the 2014 election seemed to be between Congress and the RSS, a view echoed by Finance Minister P. Chidambaram on Tuesday in an interview with a Hindi TV station in which he criticised the BJP's choice of candidate for prime minister.

"We think that the RSS ideology is a dangerous ideology," Chidambaram said.

An opinion poll conducted by Cvoter and published last month predicted Congress would win its lowest ever number of parliamentary seats in the 2014 election. Since then the party has called for such polls to be banned, calling them unscientific.

If that poll proved correct, Modi could form the next government, but he would need to win over coalition partners. (Additional reporting by Jo Winterbottom and Shyamantha Asokan; Editing by John Chalmers and Nick Macfie)

[vishvak]

So, the only person to run down one of India's most significant technological achievements also happens to be the head of the Dynasty think tank: How the Mars mission helps India

Others like economist-activist Jean Dreze have said the mission "seems to be part of the Indian elite's delusional quest for superpower status

Shows how economist-pretenders are actually activists that start passing hot air when desi tech progress is visible. He has been an employee of GoI but nothing stops such pretenders to pass hot air in other's name and pass off as a civilized economist only.

GoI should strongly check credentials of those who recommended this activist to work in India as so-called economist - a failed one at his works - and cancel their VISA along with this hot air passer.

[debadutta]

BJP has been a player in Odisha. There was 2 years ago, India Today poll, that had these %, BJD -33%, BJP -30% and Con at 27%. The Con pasand writer of that survey was lamenting how BJP is overtaking Con space as apposition. Odisha is a clear place for BJP to win (allying with BJD will delay/kill it, not aligning will give Congress seats) - It has two dominant player, Con identified as corrupt and bad and BJD as good but inefficient. There is a space for a party that is good and efficient (What BJP has been in Guj, MP, CH, failed being that in JH, UK and HP,KA). If BJD acts recalcitrant, BJP should make a push and increase its tally from 0 to 1 or 2. Mostly it will be killing BJD prospects and improving Cong. So one state that should be thought through with multiple surveys.

Really! can't imagine BJP having higher vote share than congress in Odisha.
BJP's vote share and seats decreased in the recent urban bodies polls (same for congress) . I do n't see any progress for either BJP or Congress , at least in coastal Odisha. Western Odisha urban bodies polls are scheduled for end of november, BJP may do better there, but we have to wait and watch. BJP got 16/17% votes in 2009 elections. However i think their vote share will go down rather than go up. Again, it's a case of lack of popular leaders . Since they were part of the govt from 2000 -2009 and they still hope to have BJD as an ally, their protests/ agitations are half hearted .

One other thing, after the recent cyclone and floods, neither PM (or Sehzada) nor Mr. Modi showed up , where as the BJD govt did a really good job , so can't think of a reason as to why people will switch from BJD to either Congress or BJP.