Managing Chinese Threat

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat

Postby SSridhar » 03 Nov 2013 08:26

Russia - Japan Upgrade Defence Ties as Part of 2+2 Mechanism - Vladimir Radyuhin, The Hindu
Russia and Japan have moved to dramatically upgrade bilateral ties, holding their first joint Defence and Foreign Ministers’ meeting and agreeing to expand their defence and security cooperation.

The two-plus-two ministerial meeting on security held in Tokyo on Saturday “marks a new stage in Russian-Japanese relations”, said Russia’s Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov.

Japanese Foreign Minister Fumio Kishida said the meeting had opened a “new page for Japan-Russia cooperation in security and defence”.

Russia has become only the third country after the United States and Australia to have established the two-plus-two mechanism of bilateral interaction at the ministerial level with Japan, while Japan is the first country in Asia to have this arrangement with Russia.{This is wrong. India was the second country, after the US, with which Japan established the 2+2 mechanism, in c. 2010.}

Russia and Japan have agreed to conduct the first ever anti-terrorism and anti-piracy exercises between the Japanese Maritime Self-Defence Force and the Russian Navy. Till now the two navies have jointly trained only for search and rescue operations.

The two countries have also agreed to step up their cooperation in multilateral security forums in the Asia-Pacific region.

The warming of Russia-Japan ties is being watched warily in China, which is locked in a bitter territorial dispute with Japan.

A Xinhua report from Tokyo said Russia and Japan remained “at variance” over Japan’s strategy of “active pacifism” and the Japan-U.S. missile defence system, in addition to their Kuril Islands row.


China wooed Russia when Xi Jinping made Moscow his first stop-over after assuming power. There was red-carpet welcome for him there even as nationalist Chinese media accused Russia of being the biggest aggressor holding Chinese territory. Now, Japan is doing the same. The Great Game is on all over the place.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat

Postby SSridhar » 04 Nov 2013 14:33

Indian Troops Arrive in China for joint Military Exercises - ToI
Indian and Chinese armies are all set to hold their third joint military exercises after a gap of five years, as a 150-strong Indian army contingent on Monday arrived in Chengdu city to take part in anti-terrorism drills.

The 10-day drill code named "hand in hand" would be formally inaugurated tomorrow at a designated area close to Chengdu city.

The annual exercises, which began in 2007, are being resumed after a gap of five years.

The first exercises were held in China's Kunming city followed by the second round at Belgaum in Karanataka in 2008.

The next round was called off by India following the denial of visa to a top General heading troops in Jammu and Kashmir on the grounds that the region formed part of disputed territory.

The two sides resumed contacts after China rescinded its decision and began issuing regular visas to residents of Jammu and Kashmir, a move that facilitated a broad engagement between the two giant neighbours.

Significantly, the exercises focussing on anti-terrorism drills were taking place as China stepped up its campaign against terrorism after last week's suicide attack at the Forbidden City overlooking Tiananmen square here.

Following this China said it would up step anti-terrorism cooperation members of the six member Shanghai Cooperation Organisation
consisting of China, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Russia, Tajikistan and Uzbekistan.

India and Pakistan are observers in the grouping.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat

Postby Arihant » 04 Nov 2013 16:39

SSridhar wrote:Indian Troops Arrive in China for joint Military Exercises - ToI
Indian and Chinese armies are all set to hold their third joint military exercises after a gap of five years, as a 150-strong Indian army contingent on Monday arrived in Chengdu city to take part in anti-terrorism drills.

The 10-day drill code named "hand in hand" would be formally inaugurated tomorrow at a designated area close to Chengdu city.

The annual exercises, which began in 2007, are being resumed after a gap of five years.

The first exercises were held in China's Kunming city followed by the second round at Belgaum in Karanataka in 2008.

The next round was called off by India following the denial of visa to a top General heading troops in Jammu and Kashmir on the grounds that the region formed part of disputed territory.

The two sides resumed contacts after China rescinded its decision and began issuing regular visas to residents of Jammu and Kashmir, a move that facilitated a broad engagement between the two giant neighbours.

Significantly, the exercises focussing on anti-terrorism drills were taking place as China stepped up its campaign against terrorism after last week's suicide attack at the Forbidden City overlooking Tiananmen square here.

Following this China said it would up step anti-terrorism cooperation members of the six member Shanghai Cooperation Organisation
consisting of China, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Russia, Tajikistan and Uzbekistan.

India and Pakistan are observers in the grouping.


Military exchanges are a very good idea. Close quarters interaction will help us realize that they aren't as invincible as they are made out to be.

On a related note, we need more Mandarin specialists, and more China studies centres in academia.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat

Postby rajrang » 05 Nov 2013 21:25

Clearly China does not like competition from India as shown in the ranting (for which the Chinese media has expertise) below:

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/worl ... 271361.cms

The article is trying to reassure a supposedly insecure (Chinese) reader that China has a laundry list of accomplishments in space ahead of India! Evidence of how insecure China is when it comes to India!

I am guessing that the Chinese leadership may be more insecure in its perception of India than even in relation to the US and Japan? If true, then, one explanation is that the Chinese leadership thinks VERY long term - when India may be more powerful than US and Japan.

Since, old civilizations are supposed to have self-confidence, and China is an old civilization, this is surprising.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat

Postby Lalmohan » 06 Nov 2013 19:32

series of deadly bomb blasts outside the chinese communist party's head quarters

follows closely on the heels of the "fire" in a car on tiananmen square last week

just waiting to see the paqui fingerprints on this...

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat

Postby Bade » 06 Nov 2013 20:36

rajrang wrote:Since, old civilizations are supposed to have self-confidence, and China is an old civilization, this is surprising.


There is a theory that even the '62 invasion by China was due to the leadership (Mao) feeling slighted that Nehru was getting more of a spotlight in world affairs than them and hence wanted to put India/Nehru in place as it wanted. There is perhaps some truth to that from their continuing antics and statements which are unlike a world or even regional power.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat

Postby Lalmohan » 06 Nov 2013 21:14

the book Blood Telegram goes into some details on the interactions between Zhou en Lai and Kissinger - it talks of deep visceral hatred by the Chinese of the Indians - most of it of a very petty nature. of course kissinger and nixon lap it up

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat

Postby Prem » 07 Nov 2013 10:24

http://saisaonline.org/analysis/trackin ... an+Idea%29
Tracking the borders

With China all set to pump on another $1.2 billion in its Tibetan Rail project which will bring rail connectivity right up to the Indian border, India too is getting ready to beef up its border security. On the agenda are 14 strategic rail lines along its borders with China and Pakistan. However, while these rail lines are critical to meeting India’s security challenges, want of funds could delay these ambitious projects which are expected to cost more than Rs 78,000 crore.Some of these lines were planned a hundred years ago but have not seen any development. Surveys for two of the 14 lines are still to be completed and cost of four lines yet to be estimated. The main hurdle has been the absence of a cost-sharing agreement between the various ministries involved.In December 2012, Defence Minister A K Antony had in the Lok Sabha described these 14 lines as being strategically important for national security. The rail lines, planned in accordance with inputs from the defence ministry, are to be laid in the border areas of Punjab, Rajasthan, Arunachal Pradesh and Jammu & Kashmir.
The three lines planned in Rajasthan are crucial for the movement of troops and artillery to the border. “The terrain of Rajasthan is suited for mechanised warfare. But some tracks in the state are still [the ageing and archaic] meter gauge, with single lines. Doubling [the tracks] in the Jodhpur-Jaisalmer area will save the time required to move supplies,” says Brig (retd) Rumel Dahiya, deputy director general at the Institute of Defence Studies & Analyses. “If you have a broad gauge rail line in the border areas, you can move tanks and heavy artillery without noise and dust,” he adds. Experts say that enhanced connectivity can save up to two days’ of travel time. The Patti-Ferozepur track in Punjab, for example, will reduce the time taken to supply goods to border areas, like Tarn-Taran district, by about 12 hours. The line will run parallel to the border and will enhance the strategic mobility and flexibility in employment of troops,” says Dahiya.
Moving to Uttarakhand, four lines are planned here in the difficult Himalayan terrain. Official sources say that work has started on the 160-km Hrishikesh-Karnaprayag-Chamoli line and that the Rail Vikas Nigam Limited (RVNL), which has undertaken the task, is currently awaiting environmental clearances for the initial 12-km stretch. RVNL has submitted details of the line alignment to the state government and Railway Board for approval.One of the most expensive lines – expected to cost about Rs 19, 108 crore – is the 378-km-long Missamari-Tawang link which will connect areas of Arunachal Pradesh, disputed by China, with Assam. With the Chinese aggressively building infrastructure on the other side close to the border, this line becomes crucially important. “Chinese infrastructure projects have grave strategic implications for India and are a significant leg of the overall Chinese recalibration in South Asia,” says Monika Chansoria, senior fellow at the Centre for Land and Warfare Studies (CLAW) in Delhi. “This extensive development of infrastructure in areas bordering India suggests the impetus being given to the People’s Liberation Army’s logistics capability, which, in turn, will enhance its operational capability in these areas – some of which are in dispute with India,” Chansoria adds. Experts also point out that the road network in Arunachal Pradesh and the rest of the Northeast is on the ridges running from north to south. There is almost no connectivity from east to west, which increases the distances three-times.The Akhnoor-Poonch line, meanwhile, would create a parallel network along the border with Pakistan and enhance connectivity near the Line of Control with Pakistan. Official sources say that recently the Uttarakhand chief minister had asked for the projects in the state to be speeded up, but the cost involved is proving to be a hurdle. Sources in the Planning Commission say that “unfortunately” these projects are not on the priority list for funding. “Although we understand that these projects cannot be placed in the same category as other projects, but there is currently no consensus on resource allocation,” says a senior official in the Planning Commission.A final location survey might also be needed before funds for the projects are allocated. “Usually, the project gets the money after the preliminary survey, but in this case, keeping the cost escalations in mind, we might want to have a detailed project report first,” says an official.Apart from the costs, the tough terrain also poses a challenge. Experts say India does not have any experience of building rail tracks at high altitude and in tough terrains like those in the Himalayas.* * * * *
There is no good news with regard to road construction either. The Cabinet Committee on Security had set the deadline of 2012 for the completion of 73 key road projects which were classified as India-China Border Roads. The defence ministry has been pushing for faster construction of these 73 roads that can be used around the year and can sustain harsh weather conditions. About 15 of them have been completed till now. A study done by CLAW points out that the construction of roads in the Northeast has been put under the Special Accelerated Road Development Programme for the North East. The project, divided into two phases, will undertake the construction of 1,300 km in the first phase and 5,700 km in the second. The deadline is 2013. About 36 out of these 73 roads are in Arunachal Pradesh, given its proximity to China.The worry is not without reason. China has built a network of integrated highways and subsidiary/feeder roads that connect the Tibet Autonomous Region to border areas with India, Nepal and Bhutan. It has developed 58,000 km of road network in Tibet, which includes five major highways and subsidiary roads, says a study by CLAW.The Yunnan-Tibet highway holds strategic importance for India, as the Chinese army is currently building an eastern theatre opposite to that of India. China is also heavily investing in border areas by constructing new airfields and upgrading new advanced landing grounds. “The construction of airfields and advanced landing grounds closer to Indian borders boosts the PLA Air Force (PLAAF) fighter aircrafts’ striking range and provides PLAAF the ability to strike and engage targets in India on a broad front and in depth,” says Chansoria.Delay from the Indian side to boost the infrastructure will have long-term effects on India’s overall bargaining power, especially with China, says a former defence officer on the condition of anonymity. A study has also revealed that low infrastructure development also makes India “more vulnerable to manipulation of river water”. In 2004, after China informed India that an artificial lake had formed on Pareechu river, a tributary of Sutlej, India was denied the permission to assess the causes of its formation, causing suspicion that the lake was man-made.Dahiya points out that poor infrastructure also leaves out the emotional integration of people. “It makes people disconnected and gives the enemy a chance to fuel local unrest and take advantage of the situation.”The rail links, assert experts and defence officials, are fundamentally important to national security as we already lose out on the competition with China.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat

Postby merlin » 07 Nov 2013 17:59

Lalmohan wrote:the book Blood Telegram goes into some details on the interactions between Zhou en Lai and Kissinger - it talks of deep visceral hatred by the Chinese of the Indians - most of it of a very petty nature. of course kissinger and nixon lap it up


Sounds like penis envy to me :mrgreen:

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat

Postby devesh » 09 Nov 2013 09:54

crossposting, per SSridhar's request:

http://thediplomat.com/2013/11/03/japan ... ack-force/

Japan’s New (Defensive) Attack Force


Even as Washington tied itself up in knots, the Japan-U.S. Security Consultative Committee (SCC) – the “2+2” comprising the countries’ foreign and defense ministers – was announcing a potentially far-reaching revamp of the Japan-U.S. alliance. As part of their new vision, the Japanese military will shoulder a greater share of the joint security burden, something the U.S. government – and some Japanese conservatives – have wanted to happen for a very long time.

Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe is a leading proponent of the more active Japan that is emerging. Speaking to The Wall Street Journal this week, Abe asserted the view that “Japan is expected to exert leadership … in the field of security in the Asia-Pacific,” and warned China that the outcome would not be peaceful if it should try to change the status quo by force – even as Japan scrambled fighter aircraft on three consecutive days in response to Chinese activity.

Against this worrying backdrop, the Japan Self-Defense Force (JSDF) and the Japan Coast Guard (JCG) have both been enhancing their capabilities with a view to protecting the country’s maritime interests. Abe may not have initiated this process, but he is doing what he can to accelerate it, having handed the Ministry of Defense (MoD) its first budget increase in over a decade at the start of the year.

Most eye-catching of all – especially in light of Japan’s disagreements with China – has been Tokyo’s emphasis on the JSDF’s amphibious capabilities. The news this week that the MoD is prepping a major amphibious landing drill that began on November 1 was a restatement of this ambition, and the exercise will be the latest in a long series of moves designed to equip the JSDF with a credible amphibious deterrent.



Japan is on the move again.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat

Postby harbans » 09 Nov 2013 13:56

NEW YORK – Surround a disputed area with all types of ships, enclose it like a cabbage and hold on to it.

That’s the so-called cabbage strategy that China is employing to stake its maritime territorial claims, and a ranking Chinese military officer says his country should take more disputed territory from the Philippines, The New York Times Magazine has reported.

Quoting Maj. Gen. Zhang Zhaozhong of the Chinese People’s Liberation Army, the Sunday magazine cover article said China began taking measures “to seal and control” areas around Panatag or Scarborough Shoal, which the Chinese call the Huangyan Islands, following a standoff with the Philippines last year.

The magazine article, quoting Zhang, reported that the cabbage strategy involved “surrounding a contested area with so many boats – fishermen, fishing administration ships, marine surveillance ships, navy warships.” The island “is thus wrapped layer by layer like a cabbage,” Zhang reportedly said in a television interview given in May.

In the story entitled “A Sea of Trouble,” with the second heading “A Game of Shark and Minnow,” the NYT described the old, rusting Sierra Madre ship that the Philippine government ran aground on Ayungin Shoal in 1999 as an unlikely battleground in a geopolitical struggle that will shape the future of the South China Sea and, to some extent, the rest of the world.


China should take more of Phillipines territory

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat

Postby SSridhar » 10 Nov 2013 08:15

Exercise Malabar Scaled Down - S.Anandan, The Hindu
At least a few in the strategic community resent the Indian defence establishment’s stance in scaling down Exercise Malabar, the annual India-U.S. naval interaction, whose at-sea segment now under way on India’s eastern seaboard is a shadow of the previous editions.

The ongoing edition is indisputably the weakest, with just a guided missile destroyer of the U.S. Navy, with a few helicopters to boot, operating alongside two frontline Indian warships — the stealth frigate INS Shivalik and the destroyer INS Ranvijay — besides a few soon-to-be phased out Tu-142 long-range maritime reconnaissance aircraft.

Citing the Chinese reaction to India’s attempt to forge a naval-power quadrilateral using the exercise, he [M.K.Bhadrakumar] said change of governments in Japan and Australia rendered the move impractical. Australia’s calibrated response to China, its largest trading partner and contributor to economic growth, pre-empted the possibility. While it was legitimate for India to hold military exercises with other countries, if it stemmed from a containment strategy towards China, it would be unsustainable and antithetical to our traditions, he said.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat

Postby SSridhar » 10 Nov 2013 12:54

Pacific Gateway Isles Get Maritime Self Defence Forces Surface-to-Ship Missiles in Drill - Japan Times
The Self-Defense Forces have begun deploying missiles on islands marking the gateway to the Pacific as part of a huge military drill that has unsettled China.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat

Postby SSridhar » 11 Nov 2013 10:29

China eyeing contentious Air Defence Zone in East China Sea - Japan Times
The Chinese People’s Liberation Army is considering setting up an air defense identification zone that would overlap with Japan’s over the East China Sea — a move that is likely to heighten tensions between the countries — according to an internal Chinese military document.

An ADIZ serves as a national defense perimeter that triggers fighter scrambles when foreign aircraft enter the zone without prior notification.

The zones are set up outside national airspace to prevent incursions by suspicious aircraft.

To date, China has not defined an ADIZ. If the country were to establish such a zone, it would be certain to overlap with Japan’s as a major part of the Japanese ADIZ over the East China Sea has been set closer to China than the median line, which lies at an equal distance from the two countries.

The internal document obtained by Kyodo News shows that a Beijing-based senior air force official proposed strengthening the nation’s air defense operations by setting up a Chinese ADIZ, saying neighboring countries “are insisting the validity of marine boundaries disadvantageous to our country.”

The official also argued that China cannot control its maritime resources effectively without an ADIZ, the document said.

The move comes as an increasing number of Chinese aircraft have been approaching Japanese airspace after the government purchased three of the five main islands in the uninhabited Senkaku group in the East China Sea from a private owner in September last year.

In the first such intrusion, a Chinese State Oceanic Administration airplane entered Japanese airspace over the islets in December.

Such zones are set up by countries based on domestic law. There are no international rules concerning their establishment.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat

Postby SSridhar » 11 Nov 2013 18:04

India concerned over Chinese incusrsins: Khurshid - The Hindu
India is concerned about periodic provocative incursions by Chinese troops that have resulted in “eyeball-to-eyeball confrontations”, but was hopeful that the border issues will eventually be settled.

“Obviously, we are concerned about periodic steps that seem provocative or adverse to our interests,” External Affairs Minister Salman Khurshid said.

“But, of course, they (incursions) are occurring in the context of a different perception of what the Line of Control is and where it should be. The good news is that there hasn’t been a casualty on the Chinese front for several years. There have been skirmishes and eyeball-to-eyeball confrontations, but no casualties”, he said.

He believed the border issues will eventually be settled and peace and stability between India and China will become stronger over time, Mr. Khurshid said in an interview to The Australian.

Responding to a question if India and China, by virtue of their size, proximity, contrasting political systems and diverging geo-strategic interests, were not destined to some extent to be strategic rivals, Mr. Khurshid said: “Yes, I think that’s to some extent inevitable, although it’s much more complex than that, of course. But we’d like to be rivals who are also partners, partners who are also rivals.”

“Our Prime Minister has said that the world is large enough to accommodate the aspirations of both China and India,” he said.

Mr. Khurshid said he was prepared to talk in some detail about one of the most vexed issues in the Sino-Indian relationship -- the border of Arunachal Pradesh -- with China.

India and China last month inked a comprehensive pact -- Border Defence Cooperation Agreement (BDCA) -- which commits them not to use military capability to attack each other.

The agreement was signed following a series of incursions by the Chinese army into Depsang Valley in Ladakh region in May.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat

Postby SSridhar » 13 Nov 2013 10:31

Uighurs blame spate of violence on abuses, not jihad - Japan Times
China has blamed a fiery attack in Tiananmen Square on “terrorists” from Xinjiang backed by international militants, but residents say that rather than jihadism, violence is driven by cultural repression, corruption and police abuses.

The dusty city of Hotan on the edge of the Taklamakan desert is 3,300 km and a world away from Beijing’s Forbidden City, the symbolic heart of Chinese power.

Armed security personnel in camouflage and police vans patrol the streets in the city whose 2 million strong population is 96 percent Uighur, a mainly Muslim ethnic minority concentrated in Xinjiang.

Chinese state broadcaster CCTV has said that the three people who carried out the Tiananmen attack, which saw their vehicle barrel into a crowd and burst into flames, as well as five others detained in connection, were all from Hotan.

But residents reject the accusation that the deadly Tiananmen incident — the first attributed to Uighurs outside the far western region — and a series of clashes inside Xinjiang this year are the result of terrorism.

“Uighurs are angry that women are not allowed to cover their faces or that they must bribe government officials to get things done,” said a 30-year-old doctor who, like other interviewees, asked not to be named for fear of repercussions from discussing the sensitive topic.

“They don’t go overseas” for terrorism training, he said. “The problem is they are unhappy with officials in Hotan. The governance is bad and that’s why these idiots do what they do — make trouble, turn to violence.”

Several said they did not know if Islamic extremism or other factors motivated the Tiananmen attack, in which police said a man, his wife and his mother crashed into crowds on the square, killing two tourists, before setting their car on fire and dying in the blaze.

One pointed to the amateur nature of attacks as evidence the perpetrators could not have been organized or trained.

Security experts have also questioned Beijing’s allegations that a militant group with cross-border links is actively fighting for an independent Xinjiang, while overseas rights groups accuse China of exaggerating the global jihad threat to justify oppressive measures.

Beijing says all countries are justified in cracking down on terrorism and insists it has promoted economic growth in the relatively less-developed region.

But in Hotan, Uighurs cite religious restrictions as a major grievance, particularly an official campaign to stop the Muslim practice of women covering their faces.

“This is where problems arise. They don’t respect our ethnic traditions,” said one resident, adding: “The people they call terrorists are just people who are uncivilized and uneducated. . . . Anywhere you go you will find good guys and bad guys.”

In Kashgar, 500 km from Hotan, several residents said a clash with police that left 21 people dead in April erupted after a local official tried to force a woman to remove her veil.

At the time, the official Xinhua News Agency labeled those involved as “terrorists” who “regularly watched video clips advocating religious extremism” and gathered together “to practice killing skills.”

Another standoff between locals and police turned violent in Hotan in June, although authorities did not specify the casualties.

Chinese state-run media described that incident as involving terrorists who sparked riots by “attacking a number of people with weapons after gathering at local religious venues.”

But residents near the scene said crowds gathered after authorities temporarily shut a popular mosque, with protesters grabbing wooden rods from a construction site.

Soon after, several people said, authorities shut phone communications for several hours and Internet connections for many days. Police detained people without explanation, including mere passers-by, they added — a complaint voiced by others in Hotan.

Unknown numbers were still being held, said a 28-year-old man living near the mosque — a small concrete structure whose green double doors were still locked and where the open-air prayer area was filling with leaves.

“Why they were detained and why they have not been released, we don’t know,” he said. “Officials at the township level and below do whatever they want.”

Another woman in Hotan said of the police: “If we Uighurs just say two words to them they come beat us. This is one of the issues.”

City authorities could not be reached for comment.

Abuse by police and local government officials has fed resentment and triggered sporadic violence elsewhere in China — although authorities do not normally describe this as terrorism.

Last Wednesday, a bomb outside a Communist Party office in Taiyuan, capital of Shanxi province, killed one person and injured eight. Xinhua described the culprit as a 41-year-old ex-convict who sought to “take revenge on society.”

At a carpet factory in Hotan, the manager said that attacks involving Uighurs were always reported as terrorism.

“It’s better not to look into it or ask questions,” he added. “Some of the police at the lower levels are uncivilized. That is why conflicts arise.”

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat

Postby SSridhar » 15 Nov 2013 10:51

ASEAN Ties Key to Abe's China Policy - Japan Times
Once he winds up his planned two-day trip to Laos and Cambodia from Saturday, Prime Minister Shinzo Abe will have visited all 10 member states of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations in less than a year since taking office in December.

It’s a lightning pace compared to his predecessors, according to a Foreign Ministry official. Starting with Vietnam, Thailand and Indonesia in January, Abe has traveled to 23 countries in 10 months, far more than any other prime minister during his tenure in the past decade.

The rise of China is responsible for Abe’s frequent globe-trotting, pundits say. Checking in with ASEAN member countries is seen as a bid to deepen bonds to counter China’s growing clout in the Asia-Pacific region.

The government hopes to bolster ties with countries that share “common values of democracy, freedom and basic human rights,” to counter China’s growing military and economic power, they said. And ASEAN countries are the vital part of Japan’s diplomatic strategy to keep China in check.

“There is no doubt that (Abe) is extremely conscious of China, even though he doesn’t declare it. It’s obvious to everyone, including China,” said Yosihide Soeya, professor of East Asian studies at Keio University. “But when it comes to how much impact (Abe’s frequent overseas visits) have had on Japan-China diplomacy, it’s a different story.”

While making the rounds of ASEAN countries, stressing the importance of applying the rule of law to resolve territorial disputes, Abe has yet to hold a summit with China’s leaders.

Japan-China ties soured after Tokyo in September last year effectively nationalized the Senkaku Islands in the East China Sea, which are also claimed by China and Taiwan.

Ever since, China has kept up patrols around the islets. In response, Japan has sought better security ties with Vietnam and the Philippines, countries that are also involved in sovereignty disputes with Beijing over isles in the South China Sea.

In July, Abe promised to provide Manila with 10 coast guard patrol boats through a yen loan.

While Abe’s frequent trips have succeeded in raising Japan’s profile abroad, Tokyo has so far failed to take the ties to the next level, Soeya said.

“By offering support or cooperation, mainly economic, Japan has strengthened ties with those countries. But the important thing is what Japan will build on that foundation, and Japan has yet to reach that stage,” he said.

Rather than attempt to counter China, as Abe’s recent moves suggest, the government had better cooperate with ASEAN countries to figure out ways to coexist with it, Soeya said.

“No (ASEAN) country will join Japan (to counter China). . . . The last thing they want to do is to make China angry,” Soeya said.

As trade increases by the year, China is also becoming an ever more important economic partner for ASEAN countries, experts said.

“We need to form closer ties with the region economically, politically, and hopefully in security areas as well. But (its aim should not be to) counter China. It is impossible. What we can do is develop bonds in ‘soft’ areas,” he said.

Toshikazu Inoue, professor of international relations at Gakushuin University, pointed out Southeast Asia’s expanding economies are also important for revitalizing Japan’s economy.

“When relations with China and South Korea have worsened this far, Southeast Asian countries are important for Japan as a means of hedging (economic) risks,” Inoue said.

Tokyo indeed has shown a readiness to forge closer economic ties with the region, pushing sales of infrastructure such as railways as well as easing visa requirements for Southeast Asians to lure more travelers to Japan.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat

Postby harbans » 15 Nov 2013 19:58

Hug first and relent at leisure..Nehruvian legacy to FP. Good art by BC.

Surrender at Beijing: Chellaney

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat

Postby Arihant » 15 Nov 2013 20:18


SSridhar
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat

Postby SSridhar » 16 Nov 2013 05:36

A Game of Chinese Checkers - G.Parthasarathy, Business Line
Rarely in history has a country moved from rags to riches and from relative isolation to a power either feared or respected, as rapidly as China.

The process began after Deng Xiao Ping assumed the reins of power. Bent on overturning a Communist system which had perpetuated poverty, and all but throwing the slogans of Marx, Lenin and Mao into the wastepaper basket, Deng proclaimed: “Poverty is not socialism. To be rich is glorious”.

What followed were policies that produced a sustained, near double-digit annual growth rate for over two decades. Recognising that an economically backward and militarily weak China should bide its time before asserting itself internationally, Deng proclaimed: “Keep a cool head and maintain a low profile. Never take the lead — but aim to do something big.”

SHOW OF MUSCLE

China’s rise over the past quarter of a century has been remarkable. But, historic traits of chauvinism and the dynamics of socio-economic transformation are inevitably having an impact on China’s behaviour.

The contradictions between an increasingly open economy in an era of expanding global communications, on the one hand, and corruption and venality that characterise the behaviour of dictatorial elites on the other, are producing social and economic tensions. These tensions can get out of hand if not addressed deftly. Like all other dictatorships facing such challenges, China’s leadership is increasingly resorting to jingoism to divert the attention of its people.

The message to the people of China is that, with its growing military might and economic power, China is set to share global pre-eminence with the US and will overtake the latter soon in economic power. This has been coupled with bullying and coercion of neighbours to enforce claims for territorial expansion.

China seeks to enforce its outrageous territorial claims on its maritime boundaries with countries such as Japan, the Philippines and Vietnam through coercion and intimidation, while showing scant regard for the provisions of the UN Convention on the Law of the Seas (UNCLOS). Regionally, it uses its economic clout in Asean, to divide its members, on its maritime boundary claims.

BORDER DISPUTE

It refuses to behave transparently or equitably with its lower riparian neighbours, on its upstream utilisation of the waters of the Mekong River. It suddenly upped the ante on its border dispute with India by laying claim to the whole State of Arunachal Pradesh, just after Prime Minister Wen Jiabao inked an agreement with New Delhi in 2005, in which it was agreed that: “The India-China boundary should be along well defined and easily identifiable natural geographic features”.

The “well defined and easily identifiable natural geographic features” in the Ladakh sector lie along the Karakoram Mountains up to the Indus River Watershed. Areas which China brazenly intruded into in April like Depsang and Chumar clearly lie on the Indian side of this boundary.

It is here that India has walked into a diplomatic quagmire, as Agreements on Peace and Tranquillity along the “Line of Actual Control” allude to a “Line” whose delineation China refuses to spell out clearly, by exchanging maps. This enables China to lay unsubstantiated claims to territories it intrudes into, disregarding past agreements. Prominent Indians like Stopden from Ladakh and former IB Special Director Ravi, have spelt out details of how such Chinese intrusions have changed the situation on the ground in Ladakh and Arunachal Pradesh, to India’s disadvantage. In future border negotiations, India should forcefully refer to the 2005 “Guiding Principles” as the fundamental basis for addressing and resolving the border issue.

The Agreement on Border Cooperation recently signed on October 23, only puts India in a more disadvantageous position. Its Article VI prohibits India from “following or tailing” Chinese patrols after they intrude into areas India asserts as being on its side of the Line of Control. Technically, the Chinese can now intrude into the Tawang Area which they have long claimed, or choose to move across the Karakoram Range, and then could well demand that our patrols do not follow them. {Exactly as we have been saying here the moment thic clause was revealed}

The Agreement moreover requires us to provide advance intimation of aircraft flights. We are building air bases in Daulat Beg Oldi and elsewhere along the LoC to improve logistics. Are we going to provide advance intimation to the Chinese every time our aircraft fly to these airbases?

SPATE OF TRANSGRESSIONS

Nine so called “agreements” were signed on October 23, most of which have only symbolic value. The only agreement showing some movement forward was on river waters, where the two sides have agreed to enhance exchange of information on river water flows, while acknowledging that “cooperation on trans-border Rivers” will “strengthen the strategic and cooperative partnership”.

Whether this will entail Chinese restraint on diverting the waters of the Brahmaputra is questionable, given their behaviour with lower riparian States on the Mekong Basin. The harsh reality appears to be that we appear to have persuaded ourselves that discretion is the better part of valour, in the face of Chinese intrusions.

India is hamstrung by China’s vastly superior communications along the borders and its present inability to mount offensive operations, because of the delays in acquisitions.

India inked an agreement on “Equipment Service Centres” for Chinese power equipment. The real strategic challenge we face today is, however, Chinese dominance of our power and electronics sectors. Import of electronic equipment today amount to $32 billion. Energy and cyber security cannot be guaranteed by facilitating Chinese imports, but by devising policies to enhance domestic manufacturing capabilities and giving Indian industry due tariff protection.

It’s a pity that the recent Summit was not used to make our concerns known to the Chinese on how their supply of plutonium reactors and reprocessing facilities to Pakistan has endangered nuclear security in South Asia.
On the positive side, however, the Prime Minister, while speaking earlier at the East Asia Summit, welcomed the establishment of an expanded Asean Maritime Forum for “developing maritime norms that would reinforce existing international law relating to maritime security”. He thereafter pledged to enhance strategic cooperation with Indonesia.

Prime Minister Li Keqiang followed his visit to India by visiting Pakistan. Manmohan Singh could perhaps have reciprocated by stopovers in Tokyo and Hanoi, after his visit to China. {Those are gestures that convey a message, but we rarely engage in such signalling}

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat

Postby SSridhar » 16 Nov 2013 08:57

New China panel to 'streamline' border response - Ananth Krishnan, The Hindu
A newly set up National Security Commission (NSC) under President Xi Jinping will allow China to mount a more unified and prompt response to both border issues and internal security threats, according to a new policy document released on Friday.

The NSC, Mr. Xi said in the document, would address “two pressures” China is facing. “Internationally, the country needs to safeguard its sovereignty, security and development interests; domestically, political security and social stability should be ensured,” the President was quoted as saying in the document, by the official Xinhua news agency.

Friday’s policy document, titled a “decision on major issues concerning comprehensive and far-reaching reforms,” was released by the Communist Party of China (CPC) following a key four-day meeting of the new leadership, which concluded here on November 12.

While the meeting’s focus was agreeing on a blueprint for economic reforms, the plenum also agreed to set up a first-ever NSC. The commission, analysts have said, would help Mr. Xi directly assert his authority on security issues — and, observers noted, raise both the President’s powers and his profile.

Mr. Xi, in Friday’s document, described “State security and social stability” as “preconditions for reform and development.” On the domestic front, the commission will focus on both social stability and addressing security threats — an issue that has received prominence following last month’s attack in Tiananmen Square.

On the external front, Mr. Xi highlighted maintaining sovereignty as a specific challenge, indicating that the NSC may play a role in managing China’s many territorial disputes, whether with India on the west, over the South China Sea, or with Japan over the disputed Diaoyu or Senkaku islands in the East China Sea.

“With only the Coast Guard given responsibility for the Senkaku islands and the South China Sea, there is a demand within China that the new body should plan for all of these threats,” said Srikanth Kondapalli, an expert on the Chinese military at Jawaharlal Nehru University.

He said the NSC could have “an impact on the Indian front,” where recent spats over the disputed border have highlighted, according to some analysts, gaps in the Chinese chain of command. Troops were involved in a three-week stand-off in April in Depsang, in Ladakh, after Chinese soldiers set up a tent in disputed territory.

“The Chinese have not explained why Depsang happened,” Professor Kondapalli said.

“That the Chinese themselves have not given an explanation suggests that at their end this issue is highly complicated.”

Professor Kondapalli said the NSC might look to address the “disjuncture” between the People’s Liberation Army (PLA), which is tasked with border defence, and the increasingly influential People’s Armed Police Force (PAPF) which often deals with terrorism and separatist-related threats.

“China has already put up huge outposts with integrated command systems over 20,000 km of its borders,” he said. “Yet the Depsang incident happened, which indicates the need for more centralised decision-making. It’s perhaps not a coincidence,” he added, “that the Depsang incident came a few months before this commission was set up.”


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Re: Managing Chinese Threat

Postby SSridhar » 17 Nov 2013 13:07

Ho, ho, ho.

11 Killed in Attack on Police Station in Xinjiang - ToI
Chinese police say 11 people were killed in an assault on a police station in the volatile northwestern region of Xinjiang.

The Xinjiang regional government said two auxiliary police officers and nine attackers were killed in the incident on Saturday afternoon. {Normally, China grossly underplays the fatalities}

It said the assailants used knives and axes in the attack in Bachu county's Serikbuya township, near the historic city of Kashgar. It said two other police officers were injured in the clash. Calls to government and police offices in the region rang unanswered on Sunday.

Xinjiang has long been home to a simmering insurgency against Chinese rule led by radicals among the region's native Turkic Muslim Uighur ethnic group. This year has been particularly bloody, with a number of deadly clashes in Xinjiang and one in Beijing.


China has been playing a huge double game with 'terrorism' by not supporting Indian moves in the UN against Pakistani terrorists. It thrice blocked moves to include Haffez Saeed in the UNSC Resolution 1267. In May 2009, after JuD and Hafeez Saeed were eventually placed on the list in Dec. 2008, China blocked an Indian move to place Maulana Masood Azhar of Jaish-e-Mohammed on the same UN 1267 Committee list. Later, when India engaged China in counter-terrorism talks in July, 2011 and presented evidence about JeM and Maulana Masood Azhar, it summarily refused to re-visit that issue. It also rejected Indian requests to place Azzam Cheema and Abdul Rehman Makki of the LeT under the Al-Qaeda and Taliban sanctions list. In the UNSC, China remained the only country not to accede to this Indian request. The usual Chinese excuse has been “there is no single definition of terrorism” and hence China has avoided taking a clarified stand on it.

Similarly, China also firmly rejected looking into details of Chinese arms suppliers provided by Anthony Shimray of the NSCN (IM). The Chinese officials insisted the information was still insufficient. The Indian side passed on information provided by Shimray in his statements before the court that the NSCN (IM) had arranged arms and ammunition worth nearly $2 million from TCL, a subsidiary of Chinese arms company China Xinshidai. However, even names of individuals, the agents in Bangkok and other such details did not seem to impress the Chinese side. The Chinese interlocutors are believed to have told their Indian counterparts that they could not act on a mere “confessional statement” — regardless of whether it had been admitted in a court of law. However, while addressing the UNSC’s Counter Terrorism Committee on September 28, 2011, China appealed to the international committee to discard double standards in the fight against terrorism. So that the UNSC Resolution 1373 could be implemented in full.

India should wait for an opportunity to return the favour at an appropriate time which surely will come. Let us not forget these.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat

Postby Peregrine » 17 Nov 2013 23:49

SSridhar Ji :

11 killed in attack on Xinjiang police station, China says

From the above Article :

Us-government funded broadcaster Radio Free Asia and a Uighur (pronounced WEE'-gur) activist said several of the young attackers were killed by a police special weapons and tactics team, despite appeals from residents who had gathered at the scene to take them alive.

"There were around 40 to 50 people gathered around the station. They shouted to the police not to shoot, capture them alive and try them," the broadcaster quoted an eyewitness as saying.
The eyewitness was not identified because of the sensitivity of the matter


However the Express Tribune of the Land of the Pure and Home of the Terrorists has the following Article which describes the Tender Loving Care meted out by the Chinese for their Lower than the Nadir Boot-Licker's Co-Religionists in Chinese Xinjiang :

China says Xinjiang police station attacked by axe, knife-wielding mob, 11 dead

Eleven people were killed and two injured in China's troubled far-west region of Xinjiang when a group of people armed with axes and knifes attacked a police station.

BEIJING : Eleven people were killed and two injured in China’s troubled far-west region of Xinjiang when a group of people armed with axes and knifes attacked a police station on Saturday, state media reported on Sunday.

“Nine mobs holding knives and axes attacked a police station at Bachu county, killing two auxiliary policemen and injuring another two policemen,” according to a report on xinhuanet.com, which cited a web report from the Xinjiang government.

“The nine mobs were gunned down on the site and local social orders restored to normal,” said the report, which identified one of the attackers with an apparent Uighur name.

Many Uighurs call Xinjiang East Turkestan, and the government often blames the frequent outbreaks of violence there on extremists agitating for an independent state.

China’s domestic security chief in November blamed a Muslim Uighur separatist group for a fatal vehicle crash in Beijing’s Tiananmen Square in which five died.

In April, 21 people died in Bachu county in what the government called a “terrorist attack”.

Dilxat Raxit, a spokesman for the main Uighur exile group, the World Uyghur Congress, said the last violence occurred after the police used electric rods to beat Uighurs, who went to protest at the police station, and then shot a protester dead.

“China’s so-called judicial reform is leading to local armed staff using excessive violence to repress Uighur protesters,” he said in an email. He did not say what the protest was about.

Many of the Turkic-speaking Uighurs chafe at Beijing’s restrictions on their culture, language and religion, though the government insists it grants them broad freedoms.

Xinjiang is a sprawling, desert-like region that borders Central Asian nations that were once part of the former Soviet Union as well as Afghanistan and Pakistan.

SSridhar Ji : No mention at all about the Police shooting the Uighur "Freedom Fighters" despite the pleadings of the people gathered around the Police Station.

Cheers Image

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat

Postby devesh » 18 Nov 2013 00:57

http://www.realclearworld.com/articles/ ... _army.html

Xi Jinping Cements Grip on China's Army

The consensus is that China's Third Plenum, which ended last week, was a little disappointing.

While the scope and scale of economic reform is still unclear, we did learn something important: when it comes to security and defence policy, President Xi Jinping is emerging as the most powerful "paramount leader" since Deng Xiaoping.

Consolidating his position may well help keep a free-wheeling People's Liberation Army in check, but will create new risks for the region nevertheless.

At the Third Plenum, Xi's power and authority over defence and security policy was extended. Of high significance is the announcement of a National Security Council, which will co-ordinate policy covering domestic security, strategic and defence issues, and international diplomacy. Although the make-up of the body is unclear, the NSC will almost certainly be chaired by Xi or answer directly to him at the very least.

China has hundreds of security agencies, so why the fuss about one more? It is not a new idea. Jiang Zemin and Hu Jintao both contemplated its creation during their tenures, before putting the idea on ice. It is well known that the NSC was opposed by the PLA, which feared the loss of its institutional and informal role in security and defence policy, and other bodies with security oversight. The fact that Xi has pushed through the NSC's creation before the end of his first year as President speaks volumes about the magnitude of his political power and standing - not just over the PLA, but other entities that previously opposed the creation of the NSC.

To be sure, something like the NSC is needed. The country's security and defence institutions have not kept pace with the growth in China's economic and military capabilities. For a country that constitutes a third of all defence spending in Asia, and with a military budget already twice that of Japan's, we know worryingly little about how decisions are made, who makes them, and for what reason.

This is where Xi's tightening grip on security and defence policy and execution could be constructive. Unlike democratic polities where civilian leaders are firmly in control of security policy and diplomacy, PLA officials have consistently led the escalation of hostile words against countries with which it has territorial disputes. In multiple cases, uniformed officers have seemingly taken charge of at-sea incidents without overt authority from their civilian masters.

An undisciplined and largely unaccountable military, fuelled by hubris and supported by double-digit annual budget increases from a deeply insecure regime, is rarely a force for stability and restraint. It is no wonder that conventional wisdom views reckless miscalculation by the PLA as the greatest danger to regional stability. The hope is that Xi, with unrivalled authority over his armed forces, can encourage and enforce restraint.

This reasoning makes sense, but centralising security and defence policy under Xi carries new risks. The President has spoken openly and passionately about his pledge to "continue the great renewal of the Chinese nation", as part of his "China Dream" message - designed to revitalise the legitimacy of the CCP and ensure its continued hold on power. Military pre-eminence in Asia is an explicit component of the dream.

A further problem is that this idea of renewal draws directly from the belief that the zenith of Chinese power under the Ming and Qing dynasties represents the natural, just and permanent state of affairs for a 5000-year-old civilisation. And this means not just retaking Tibet and Xinjiang - which has been achieved - but placing Taiwan under the mainland's control, and making good on extensive Chinese maritime claims in the East and South China seas.

Let's return to the NSC. Upon announcing the body's creation, Xi informed the country's official press that in addition to domestic unrest, China faces external pressures on safeguarding sovereignty, security and development interests - putting disputes with countries such as Japan, The Philippines, Vietnam and even India squarely on the NSC agenda.

The NSC is not just designed to institutionalise defence and security decision-making, but to ensure more effective co-ordination between all apparatus of national power to achieve CCP objectives. As Chinese officials put it last week, the NSC should cause nervousness among "terrorists, extremists and separatists" since the new body will strengthen responses against "anyone who would disrupt or sabotage China's national security".

Xi knows that a major foreign or military disaster could be fatal for a still weak CCP and would want to avoid disastrous miscalculation by an errant officer. The NSC is partly about that. It is also natural that an ambitious leader of a rising China will seek to wield the country's power more effectively. But with China undertaking the most rapid military build-up in peacetime history, growing capabilities have a habit of increasing temptation and indulging ambition. Like any great power, especially a better organised one, China is reserving the right to deploy the selective use of force as a continuation of political intercourse using other means, as Prussian strategist Carl von Clausewitz elegantly advised.

Powerful voices in China still insist that regional peace is essential for national renewal to succeed. But that has been true for many eras in which conflicts - large and small - were willingly entered into. Xi clearly understands the logic of peace, but also the potential utility of war if his military-first emphasis on national power is anything to go by. If northeast Asia is to avoid that fate, we need to discard the complacency that future descent into violence can only ever be the result of tragic and unintended consequence.



the author talks as if this NSC will lead to dilution of PLA's power. I don't think so. I think, if anything, it will help the PLA spread its tentacles, in terms of thinking and ideology, to other parts of the State. In the end, this could well be a move to consolidate PLA's power with direct support from the President, cloaked in the language of "broader civilian authority".

whether it yields the intended result, or if it leads to unintended fissures/factions, remains to be seen.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat

Postby SSridhar » 19 Nov 2013 10:38

Vietnam's Leader to Visit India to Promote Ties - Sandeep Dikshit, The Hindu
The visit of Vietnam’s top leader and General Secretary of Vietnam Communist Party Nguyen Phu Trong beginning on Tuesday is expected to lend clarity to India’s quest for greater intensity in bilateral energy, defence and economic ties, said official sources in the Ministry of External Affairs (MEA).

Economics will be the driving force of bilateral ties in future with India looking for opportunities in setting up refineries and the Tatas looking forward to setting up a 1,320-mw thermal power project after the failure of its $5 billion plan to set up a steel plant.

The India-Vietnamese project that has garnered the most attention — allocation of two oil blocks in Phu Khanh basin of South China Sea that is contested by China — could get a quiet burial after Beijing offered to Hanoi a joint approach on economic issues and has taken to discussing the sovereignty issue with ASEAN as well as bilaterally with Vietnam.

Official sources gave hints about India planning to withdraw from prospecting for block 128 on commercial considerations just like it returned block 127 about four years back.


Need to relinquish block

ONGC Videsh Limited (OVL) has conveyed to the MEA about the need to relinquish this block which it has had to hold on due to foreign policy considerations despite clear indications about low prospects. OVL has time till next year to hand back the block and the feeling here is that with techno-economic surveys proving to be disappointing, it would be prudent to walk away and look at other opportunities opening up in the hydrocarbons sector.

Defence and security is another area where both sides are keen to add more content. India and Vietnam already have enabling agreements in place and are looking to build on the strong defence training programme, frequent exchange of visits and training of Vietnamese submariners.


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Re: Managing Chinese Threat

Postby ramana » 19 Nov 2013 21:31

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 051747.cms

NEW DELHI: The ball has been set rolling for the Army to raise a new mountain "strike" corps with two "independent" infantry brigades and two "independent" armoured brigades, totalling over 80,000 soldiers, along the Line of Actual Control (LAC) with China.

While the Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS) on July 17 had cleared the new mountain corps and brigades, as was then reported by TOI, the defence ministry has now issued the "government sanction letter" to the Army for the new raising to be undertaken.

The new corps — the 1.13-million strong Indian Army already has three "strike" corps among the 13 such formations but they are largely geared towards Pakistan - will eventually have its headquarters at Panagarh in West Bengal.

The new formation to be called 17 Corps, along with its infrastructure, will come up over seven years at a cost of around Rs 90,000 crore. "Officers and soldiers are already being earmarked for posting to the new corps," said an official.

With additional armoured regiments and infantry units based in Ladakh, Sikkim and Uttarakhand, the new mountain corps will for the first time give India the capability to also launch a counter-offensive into Tibet Autonomous Region (TAR) in the event of a Chinese attack.

As part of the overall plan for "major force accretion" along the "northern borders" with China, two new infantry divisions (35,000 soldiers and 1,260 officers), have already been raised at Lekhapani and Missamari in Assam in 2009-10. Their operational tasking is the defence of Arunachal Pradesh,
which China often claims as its territory.

The new corps, with two specialized high-altitude divisions for "rapid reaction force capability in mountains", will add to all this. This will give India, which for long has focused on the land borders with Pakistan, some offensive teeth against China as well.

This is critical because China has "aggressively'' strengthened its military capabilities in TAR, with at least five fully-operational airbases, an extensive rail network and over 58,000-km of roads. This allows China to move over 30 divisions (each with over 15,000 soldiers) to the LAC, outnumbering Indian forces by at least 3:1 there.


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Re: Managing Chinese Threat

Postby SSridhar » 20 Nov 2013 16:03

Spain Issues Arrest Warrant for China's ex-Leader Jiang Zemin in Tibet Genocide - Japan Times
Spain’s National Court on Tuesday issued arrest orders for former Chinese President Jiang Zemin and four other officials as part of a probe into alleged genocide by China against Tibet.

The court said it accepted arguments from Spanish pro-Tibet rights groups that international reports indicate the five may have had a role in the alleged genocide and should be questioned.

The five also include former Prime Minister Li Peng; former security and police chief Qiao Shi; Chen Kuiyan, a former Communist Party official in Tibet; and Pen Pelyun, ex-family planning minister. None has been formally charged.

China has previously described the investigation as interference in its affairs and called the claims “sheer fabrication.”

Officials at the Chinese Embassy in Madrid did not immediately comment on the court’s decision. A woman who answered the phone at the embassy told an AP reporter to fax questions to the embassy, and there was no immediate response after the fax was sent.

Former Chinese President Hu Jintao is also under investigation although his arrest has not been sought. When he was named in the probe, China’s Foreign Ministry said the Tibetan issue was a Chinese matter, adding that it hoped Spain would handle this issue properly.

Spain’s legal system recognizes the universal justice principle, under which genocide suspects can be put on trial outside their home country.

The policy allowed former Judge Baltasar Garzon to try to chase late al-Qaida leader Osama bin Laden and late Chilean dictator Augusto Pinochet.

In practice, very few probes have seen people brought to trial in Spain. Meanwhile, the investigations have irked some countries, most notably China and Israel, and led to accusations that Spain was behaving like a global policeman.

Alan Cantos, president of Spain’s Tibet Support Committee, which first pressed for the probe in 2008, expressed satisfaction with the court decision but was not overly optimistic that anyone would be brought to trial.

The court must process the arrest orders via Interpol.

“It’s not easy, but it’s a big step,” Cantos said. “They are stuck in their own country and a competent court is pointing the finger at them. It’s so they don’t have it too easy.”

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat

Postby SSridhar » 21 Nov 2013 15:41

Measured Chinese Response to India-Vietnam South China Sea Oil Deals - Ananth Krishnan, The Hindu

It is too early to expect a Chinese response. Give them some time to understand and react. I am sure they will come with all their guns blazing. However, what bugs one is that an usual aggressor's slightly 'toned down' response is termed as 'measured response' !
China on Thursday responded cautiously to India's agreements with Vietnam on oil exploration in the disputed South China Sea, expressing its hope that countries would "do more things that are conducive" to stability, while at the same time not directly voicing its opposition to the projects.

Thursday's response from China, which has, in the past, strongly opposed exploration projects in the disputed South China Sea, citing its "indisputable sovereignty" over its islands and waters -- a claim that is being contested by at least 10 countries, including Vietnam -- was more measured than warnings directed at India last year about undertaking projects in the region.

On Wednesday, Vietnam said it offered India seven oil blocks, including three on an exclusive basis, during Vietnam Communist Party leader Nguyen Phu Trong's visit to New Delhi. It, however, remained unclear where the blocks were located, and whether the area fell within Beijing's extensive claim-lines.

Only last year, in December, Beijing said it opposed "unilateral energy exploration" and called on India to respect its "sovereignty and national interests" over exploration of blocks 127 and 128, which Chinese officials said were located in a basin that is currently under Vietnam's control but fell within their claim lines.

On Thursday, Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesperson Hong Lei said in response to a question about the deal that "the situation in the South China Sea is, generally speaking, stable".

"China's position on the South China Sea issue is clear cut and consistent", he said. "We hope relevant countries," he added, "can do more things that are conducive to development of peace and stability in the region."

China had mounted a far stronger response to India's deals on blocks 127 and 128, issuing formal protests. India has since returned the first block as explorations did not yield significant finds, while the second block has reportedly stalled on account of financial and technical difficulties.

The issue strained bilateral relations at a time when Beijing was seen as adopting a more assertive stand on territorial disputes. Beijing said last year it was strongly opposed to countries taking forward projects in waters that were "under its jurisdiction".

Chinese vessels last year had run-ins with ships from Vietnam, while vessels from China and the Philippines were involved in a tense stand-off at the Scarborough Shoal in April last year.

In recent months, however, the new Chinese leadership under Xi Jinping, who took over in March as President, has attempted to tone down regional tensions. {If Depsang was an attempt to 'tone down regional tension', then what is tension ?} Mr. Xi and Premier Li Keqiang earlier this year embarked on high-profile visits to Southeast Asia, and also announced taking forward joint exploration projects with Vietnam - a move seen as a significant step towards easing strains.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat

Postby SSridhar » 21 Nov 2013 18:03

China Increasingly Assertive Against India: US Official - ToI
China has become increasingly assertive in its relationship with India, a US official has said, citing the simmering mutual distrust that continues to plague the ties between the two neighbours.

"China was newly assertive in its relations with India this year," Carolyn Bartholomew, commissioner of the US-China Economic and Security Review Commission, told lawmakers during a congressional hearing.

Testifying before the House Armed Services Committee, she said the Sino-Indian tensions flared in early 2013, underlining the simmering mutual distrust that continues to plague the ties, particularly regarding the contested border.

"Nevertheless, the potential for periodic low-level confrontations between border patrols to escalate likely will persist. Indian media have reported several additional albeit briefer incursions by Chinese troops since the April standoff," she said, recalling the recent spate of Chinese incursions.

"Furthermore, both China and India continue to boost their militaries' capabilities on the border, adding to mutual suspicion," Bartholomew said, adding that this has left both sides sensitive to each other's border activities and disposed toward worst-case perceptions of the other sides' intentions.

Bartholomew said Ely Ratner and Alexander Sullivan of the Center for a New American Security warn: "More intense strategic competition between India and China would reverberate throughout the continent, exacerbating tensions in Central Asia, the Indian Ocean and Southeast Asia. Disruptions to the Asian engine of economic growth caused by these tensions could debilitate the global economy."

She said in its ongoing examination of China's foreign policy, the commission assesses that China increasingly is asserting itself on the global stage to protect more actively Beijing's interests.

This trend was reflected in recent statements by China's top leaders.

In late October, President Xi Jinping insisted that China "be more active in blueprinting diplomatic strategy and undertaking diplomatic work."

"The impact of China gradually taking on a more assertive global role will be significant. In particular, Beijing may become more willing to use its increasing political and economic clout to more openly impose a higher cost on countries whose actions and policies challenge China`s interests.

"This trend has significant implications for the United States, particularly if China's foreign policies undermine or challenge America's," she added.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat

Postby member_27847 » 22 Nov 2013 08:46

I see a pervasive anti-China statement here. So I want to offer a few facts:

Fact 1: China is a next door neighbour. This cannot change. Any rational person would want to keep good relations with its next door neighbour.

Fact 2: China is a major economy and major military power. There is far more to gain from peaceful coexistence.

Fact 3: There is no historical basis for enmity between China and India. The current mistrust has much to do with Tibet than any natural or long-standing problem between the two nations.

It is better if India starts treating Tibet as part of China (as it says officially) and stops worrying about roads and other infrastructure being built there.

I am just a very concerned citizen. There is NO benefit in growing enmity between these two very large Asian nations. Waste of money in defending cold/barren lands at stupendous heights is not a sign of rationality.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat

Postby Karan M » 22 Nov 2013 08:59

:lol: :shock:

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat

Postby SSridhar » 22 Nov 2013 09:45

Garg wrote:I see a pervasive anti-China statement here. etc. etc..

These, coming from a person who wanted to discuss the fact that India was not taking its defences seriously, is ironic; unless of course, if it was in mock seriousness.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat

Postby Pratyush » 22 Nov 2013 09:59

Garg wrote:I see a pervasive anti-China statement here. So I want to offer a few facts:

Fact 1: China is a next door neighbour. This cannot change. Any rational person would want to keep good relations with its next door neighbour.

Fact 2: China is a major economy and major military power. There is far more to gain from peaceful coexistence.

Fact 3: There is no historical basis for enmity between China and India. The current mistrust has much to do with Tibet than any natural or long-standing problem between the two nations.

It is better if India starts treating Tibet as part of China (as it says officially) and stops worrying about roads and other infrastructure being built there.

I am just a very concerned citizen. There is NO benefit in growing enmity between these two very large Asian nations. Waste of money in defending cold/barren lands at stupendous heights is not a sign of rationality.


I will answer, this, assuming that it is not a troll bait.

Fact one: Tell that to China, it takes two to tango, just it takes to make a quarrel.
Fact two: Does not mean that they can steam roll every one and start a fight with every one of their neighbors.
Fact three: Historically you are right, but, historically Tibet was not a part of PRC. What is my evidence, It was not covered by the Great wall of China. So what is their claim to Tibet, some 16th century map claiming Tibet. Such claims are not recognized historically, If they were recognized by international community. Then India would be justifying in taking out TSP and annexing Afghanistan, as it was a part of Mughal India. While Tibet was an independent nation for most of its history.
Fact Four: If you want good relations, you don't claim some one else territory. Which PRC is doing with every one else. And fanning a victim complex. In a way, it is acting like a huge TSP.

This will be the only post from me as a response to your post.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat

Postby member_27847 » 22 Nov 2013 12:52

SSridhar wrote:
Garg wrote:I see a pervasive anti-China statement here. etc. etc..

These, coming from a person who wanted to discuss the fact that India was not taking its defences seriously, is ironic; unless of course, if it was in mock seriousness.


India needs to do a LOT to fix itself internally before we talk about China.

Mr RahulM does not want me to continue with my thread, so he keeps locking it up. I have not done even 5% of my arguments in that thread. So would prefer if you do not talk about that.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat

Postby member_27847 » 22 Nov 2013 13:03

Pratyush:

Let me first talk about the realities. India did not have the ability to defend from China in 1961, and does not have it now either. India could not save Tibet from China in 1958. India cannot save it now.

'Tibet is an integral part of China' is official position of India. It is not a position taken by me. You can check GOI statements on that matter. If GOI has accepted something, can you question it?

The boundaries of a country are defined by the military force of that country. A king is about power - military power. You forget that because you have assumed that power comes from your vote.

The issue of Tibet is between Tibetans and China. India has had no role historically.

Let me tell you something. Arya people originally lived in Tibet and central Asia. If you read Ramayan (Sanskrit) very carefully, you will get many references to that fact. However Arya abandoned Tibet and moved to South Asia a long time ago (millions of years). The reason was climate change as Arya were dependent on agriculture.

Tibet was devoid of human population for a long time, until Mongoloid people started settling in that area.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat

Postby Karan M » 22 Nov 2013 13:31

Dude, seriously, you need to post less and read more. Arya people, Mongoloid people..what the heck is on with you??

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat

Postby alexis » 22 Nov 2013 14:51

Garg,

It was a herculean mistake to condone China's occupation of Tibet. We should never cede any more to China.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat

Postby SSridhar » 22 Nov 2013 15:20

Garg wrote:Mr RahulM does not want me to continue with my thread, so he keeps locking it up. I have not done even 5% of my arguments in that thread. So would prefer if you do not talk about that.

Of course, I would talk about that because you started that thread. I wanted you to outline the discourse you wanted to make but you thought probably that the few lines you espoused in the Mil thread were good enough and did not care to respond. And then, the rambling posts on Sanskrit, seer, Bharat etc displayed a lack of depth, cohesiveness and a logical approach to the otherwise flamboyant thread topic.

No wonder Rahul and others (myself included) saw no merit in that thread. Your post here confirms that you have to do homework before posting.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat

Postby rsingh » 22 Nov 2013 21:41

Garg wrote:I see a pervasive anti-China statement here. So I want to offer a few facts:

Fact 1: China is a next door neighbour. This cannot change. Any rational person would want to keep good relations with its next door neighbour.

Fact 2: China is a major economy and major military power. There is far more to gain from peaceful coexistence.

Fact 3: There is no historical basis for enmity between China and India. The current mistrust has much to do with Tibet than any natural or long-standing problem between the two nations.

It is better if India starts treating Tibet as part of China (as it says officially) and stops worrying about roads and other infrastructure being built there.

I am just a very concerned citizen. There is NO benefit in growing enmity between these two very large Asian nations. Waste of money in defending cold/barren lands at stupendous heights is not a sign of rationality.


Fact 1: Same applies to China which has land dispute with almost all of the neighbours.
Fact 2: Pray explain how India gain from a powerful buly next door.
Fact 3: Going by your logic we have to take fight to Turkey and Mangolia?
As for " I am just a very......blah blah" so do you want to wait n fight it out in the warm and fertile plains of UP and Punjab?

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat

Postby member_27847 » 23 Nov 2013 10:18

Karan M wrote:Dude, seriously, you need to post less and read more. Arya people, Mongoloid people..what the heck is on with you??



Sure! And where do you get your information from? Probably from Western historians commissioned by the British empire.

There is a lot of information on Tibet on the Internet. Did you care to read?

Even if we forget about Arya and Mongoloid, India (even British empire) played no role in Tibet for a very long time.

Now suddenly India feigns to be Tibetan's best friend?

What is common between Tibetans and Indians??? Can you care to tell me.


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