Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 09 Nov 2013 00:02

Go for a ~~cold~~ color laser

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 09 Nov 2013 01:10

Bawarchi better pull out something good from his hat in TV

FB should benefit a lot from this deal if they play it right given how it integrates media and games into a single social network. Mickey was smart in doing its own ASICs for Kinect in-house and now owns all the related IP across the stack without depending on external companies like the old Kinect....its gives them a lot of leverage in terms of differentiation and NUI.

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 09 Nov 2013 02:14

Raja Bose wrote:For web browsing/YouTube onlee, go for Nexus 7.

If you want to carry just one device for both tablet and laptop like tasks, go for Surface 2 Pro. In terms of industrial design and build quality, Mickey has really hit the ball out of the park for Surface 2/Surface 2 Pro...even Ive would be envious.....ironic considering Mickey was a pure software house and that too not known of good UX including design just a few moons ago.

Is the Surface 2/Surface Pro 2 that much better build quality wise from the original Surface/Surface Pro? I've used the original, but not the "2" version.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 09 Nov 2013 02:18

When would people do real (as opposed to Matrix) living? Work? Exercise? Play with kids? Spouse? As it is my younger one is addicted to Minecraft. Moi and SHQ have a running argument about how long he can be on his Mac - I let him do as much or as little as he wants - SHQ is lot stricter. Recently I got the Arduino starter kit. He had finished a couple of projects but again back to Minecraft. I am not sure about all these doo-dahs.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 09 Nov 2013 02:20

Yes they got the build quality and tolerances much better. Even the old ones were no slouch in that department.

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 09 Nov 2013 02:26

Raja Bose wrote:Yes they got the build quality and tolerances much better. Even the old ones were no slouch in that department.

Hmmm. I'll have to look at one. My big problem is vertical height and viewing area. Anything for productivity, I want 16:10 or 4:3, otherwise it has to be some big ass 30" display.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 09 Nov 2013 09:03

raspberry pi basic board is available in india for around 4000 with power supply, hdmi to vga adapter and sd card. with only the board what kind of stuff we can do?
seems to me each project would need a separate peripheral to process sound, images , control motors and so on.
is this the lowbrow down to earth "exposed" version of Lego mindstorm which costs minimum 20K and doesnt need special computer skills.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 09 Nov 2013 09:42

^^Raspberry Pi like BeagleBoard is nothing but a single board computer (SBC) with a ARM SoC - basically BeagleBoard:TI::Raspberry Pi:Broadcom. So you can run Linux on it and use it like a regular Linux computer with what you are getting for Rs.4000/- or buy additional HW and HW interface boards (or design your own) to do cool stuff with it like make a robot or even a hex toy for Mort-al pleasures. Raspberry Pi comes with its own Linux distro called Raspbian...very zimble to setup and use off the SD card. Raspberry Pi's problem is it follows a similar HW setup like the Nokia N8....big hefty GPU and puny app processor. For processing audio/images/random crap you don't need any add-on peripherals unless its for capturing that data, i.e. sensors (camera/mic/sensors) or causing trouble, i.e. actuators (motor/triac switch/leds).

Lego Mindstorms at its heart is also an ARM SBC (The RCX or whatever its called computer brick) but is a lot more high-level, more robotics focused rather than a general purpose SBC and of course being Lego is super expensive. I just donated my MindStorms NXT to my older niece who has started taking robotics classes and apparently will go to some summer camp in Yum Eye Tea next year.

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 09 Nov 2013 10:41

^^^I sent my kids to the local junior college for a 1-week Lego Mindstorms course this past summer. Didn't know MIT was offering such courses and probably for several thousand dollars for 2-3 weeks of a course. BTW, Lego has moved on to the EV3 version of the controller which use to be the NXT.

Raspberry PI isn't a pure SBC, but also has a GPU and the controllers for attaching a KVM. It's great for projects such as home automation like sprinkler control systems, automated lighting, security system, media server and HVAC control. I'm looking at one for my sprinkler control system next summer and possibly a home security system. The sensors/motors I already have installed in the house, but it has it's own simplistic controller and is not very customizable.

archan · Post by **archan** » 09 Nov 2013 11:55

Looks like what flipkart is selling here is last gen Nexus 7. It says 7'' HD display but doesn't mention the resolution. Doesthat $350 LTE version in khanland work with a desi sim? They have AT&T or TMo as options there.

member_20292 · Post by **member_20292** » 09 Nov 2013 12:21

^^^ unlock karwana adega.

or if you are like me ....try out some hack that you find on xda develoers

member_20292 · Post by **member_20292** » 09 Nov 2013 12:27

raja bose ji....you have done some sourcing from chini ODMs na?

archan · Post by **archan** » 09 Nov 2013 12:50

mahadevbhu wrote:^^^ unlock karwana adega.

or if you are like me ....try out some hack that you find on xda develoers

On the purchase page for LTE version they mention that it is unlocked. What do they mean?

BhairavP · Post by **BhairavP** » 09 Nov 2013 12:58

The Nexus 7 is unlocked.. it will work anywhere in the world with a GSM SIM.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 09 Nov 2013 13:19

so looks like mindstorm is the way to for children. my son's school also had some outfit coming and offering weekly classes on mindstorm. but ofcourse you need it at home to really progress in free time. the label on mindstorm box says 10+ so maybe he can start late next yr when he turns 10.

niran · Post by **niran** » 09 Nov 2013 14:37

LTE or 4G in India is different from khan desh
so check out its compatibility before shelling out your
moolah.

BhairavP · Post by **BhairavP** » 09 Nov 2013 14:38

Singha wrote:so looks like mindstorm is the way to for children. my son's school also had some outfit coming and offering weekly classes on mindstorm. but ofcourse you need it at home to really progress in free time. the label on mindstorm box says 10+ so maybe he can start late next yr when he turns 10.

I have the original Mindstorms set, got it back when it was released. Really need to take it out and start playing again.

member_20292 · Post by **member_20292** » 09 Nov 2013 14:50

archan wrote:
mahadevbhu wrote:^^^ unlock karwana adega.

or if you are like me ....try out some hack that you find on xda develoers
On the purchase page for LTE version they mention that it is unlocked. What do they mean?

then no tenshun required...

archan · Post by **archan** » 09 Nov 2013 15:25

Dunno.. Looking at the best buy page it says it has embedded LTE. One needs to get the device activated for AT&T or TMo. Does that mean no sim?

member_20292 · Post by **member_20292** » 09 Nov 2013 15:38

yeh dekho

it can be used in India without any issues.

Nexus 7 with lte

1.
http://productforums.google.com/forum/# ... 9U4dBvD18J

2.
http://productforums.google.com/forum/# ... yv7Y4fB2oJ

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 09 Nov 2013 22:33

We didn't have chi chi Mindstorms when I was a nanha....heck, even if we did it would have been way out of budget. Chip Chap was the kit of choice....I still have mine, built my first radio transmitter with it.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 09 Nov 2013 23:22

All of you who want to invest in Mindstorms, please go through the reviews - especially the lower star ones - to see if that fits the bill. My experience with my younger kid - a boy - is the following: When he was really little - 3-5 yrs - he started with a set of block and no instructions and started building stuff very imaginatively and got hooked into Lego universe. Over the years, as he was reading book series like Harry Potter, Lord of the rings, and saw the Star Wars and LotR movies, Lego started a co-promotional release of characters, space ships, guns etc. from these series. They were completely pre-built and because of the Lego brand started selling for ever increasing prices. These kits come with full instructions on how to build - sort of assembly line work (may be they want to train future assembly line workers

). Not much creativity in assembling the kits. I bought a few hundred dollars worth of kits and he has all of them assembled - even the most complicated kit would take may be an hour to assemble. That's it. He keeps them in a room on table, and play may be once in blue moon. If anybody knocks one over and some pieces fall off then becomes unhappy.

I see the same trend happening with Mindstorms - progressively increases prices and decreasing imagination and creativity in making the gizmo do things for you. The latest mindstorms (and they have discontinued the earlier ones) kit is something like $450 or so. I went through the features etc. and came to the conclusion (even though my kid was gung-ho except the price as I said he has to forgo his b'day present if I buy this for xmas) that it is better to start with Arduino. When we connected things on the bread board for a couple of projects - the first is to make an led blink 1000 millisecs on/1000 millisecs off - he was quite excited. Then I showed him how to change the time periods for off and on from the sample program that has been uploaded to the uC.
This is the Arduino official kit and costs about $110 from Amazon - comes with a book with 15 projects of progressively increasing difficulty. Lots of resirtors, caps, a piezo crystal, LCD panel, a breadboard, a small motor, LEDs, photodiodes. I think we will have a lot of fun with it. Meanwhile I will look for older mindstorms kits.

By the way this same trend happened in Ham radios as well. In the beginning, people would have to scrounge parts (air capicitors for tuning, vacuum tubes, transistors from places like jumme rat bazar in Hyd or Delhi also has a place like this - my older cousin's friend used to bring all kinds of stuff from Delhi second hand shops and was a big ham enthusiast - even build the enclosures by cutting the sides from Fe/Al sheets, drill holes etc.). But now very sophisticated fully assembled radios come for affordable price and the aspect has turned to social networking rather than the fun in building the thingummy. All integrated manufacturing - if something goes bad, plug the whole component out and insert a new one or even throw the whole things out and buy a new one. No fun anymore.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 09 Nov 2013 23:33

Dilli equivalent is Bhagirath Place near Chandni Chowk....I would buy my IC555s in bulk from there

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 10 Nov 2013 00:42

Yeah, I think it is Chandni Chowk area. Also, the rumor had it that circuit boards from crashed Migs (this was loong time back) found their way to the open street shops in this area. Pune old city also has an area like this - don't remember the name. We went there once to look for small brand new antique brass/bronze god icons as curios for friends here in US. Finally decided not to get them to avoid hassles at the customs.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 10 Nov 2013 00:59

^^^oh you would find some of 'em (all unusable so 'junk'

) in Chandni Chowk, Chawri Bazar and also some places in Paharganj. Dunno if they were from crashed MiGs but definitely Russian mil hardware with huge valves...maybe from radars and stuff.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 10 Nov 2013 07:22

http://www.amazon.com/Brother-HL-2270DW ... B00450DVDY

rbullah, 'found it having good reviews.. and relatively cheap monochrome printer for kids. i just ordered it. i'm tired of color costs.

ArmenT · Post by **ArmenT** » 10 Nov 2013 10:23

Raja Bose wrote:Dilli equivalent is Bhagirath Place near Chandni Chowk....I would buy my IC555s in bulk from there

The equivalent in Madras is Ritchie street

. Lots of fun times in there. 555 ICs and Tony brand soldering iron for the win!

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 10 Nov 2013 10:26

matrimc, Along with Arduino get him a Raspberry PI. My son just loves those two kits. He went past Legos long ago. Rediscovered tinkering with those two things.
Now in 3rd year college but calls me excitedly of his latest contraptions.
Dec he is visiting younger cousins and wants to take a new set as gifts.
We said sure.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 10 Nov 2013 10:43

^^^Raspberry Pi is more suitable for kids in their mid-teens and above, unless kid is gifted.

Armen mullah, Tony soldering irons!!! Brings back so many memories......I bought my 1st one for Rs.100/- and the damn thing burnt out in like 6 months

Back in India I have a huge collection of non-working Tony irons....with the boxes featuring a buxom motorhama provocatively wielding the soldering iron

Its sometimes easy to forget while using today's chi chi Metcals how one got started....

---

Mortullah, according to you what exactly is a pure SBC?

Whoever said a "pure" SBC cannot have a GPU, hain??

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 10 Nov 2013 11:13

pandyan wrote:Mindstorm has certain level of refinement and completeness that people who like to build everything from scratch may not like or need.

Mindstorm, if channeled correctly, can be a valuable tool in explaining, feeling, observing basic concepts of math, physics, mechanics, programming. That is a powerful tool. more like a lab to exercise, experiment and to think.

My kid loves the mindstorms - he did go to a couple of summer camps and liked the projects. But unfortunately those kits are not sold any more. This was a couple of years ago - as soon as he finished the summer camp we went looking for those same kinds of kits - they were not available. That was a little bit of a let down. He had been asking to go see the Legoland. This spring break we are planning - four of us flying to San Diego is an expensive proposition. We will also do the usual Disney/Universal circuit as well with may be a day in Hollywood and San Diego Zoo (which I found to be excellent).

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 10 Nov 2013 11:26

ramana wrote:matrimc, Along with Arduino get him a Raspberry PI.

I think I will get Rasberry Pi too. He is just turned 12. So may be get him to do all the projects in the Arduino. Of course, the Arduino Uno will be there and some components as well. I also got a $10 book with more Arduino projects. Have to get other components from Radio Shack to do more projects. My son is interested in Robotics. I found some cool projects at the site posted by AmberG in Physics thread. It is science buddies which has a bunch of Robotics projects - some interesting ones which can be done for under $20 and can be experimented with.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 10 Nov 2013 21:12

mahadevbhu wrote:raja bose ji....you have done some sourcing from chini ODMs na?

yes but not component sourcing.

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 10 Nov 2013 22:55

Raja Bose wrote:Mortullah, according to you what exactly is a pure SBC? Whoever said a "pure" SBC cannot have a GPU, hain??

I understand what you're saying, but....

It is a recent phenomenon (last several years) to get an SBC with a competent GPU. Many times SBCs were sold with simply support for a virtual terminal. As embedded systems person, I buy evaluation boards that are often a "pure" SBC. When I see a something like the RP, I tend to get excited as they have a decent GPU and a full I/O controller.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 10 Nov 2013 23:00

^^^Its mainly due to the fact that general purpose SoCs now have a GPU...just a matter of evolution.

member_20292 · Post by **member_20292** » 10 Nov 2013 23:06

Raja Bose wrote: No plans of going to China in person now.

So I need some RFID access control devices in the thousands for a large IT project that I am executing....but the problem is that I am not able to get directly to the factories .

From what I hear the actual manufacturer does not know anything about sales ..so there are all these middlemen companies and traders who come in the middle.

I don't have any problem with the trading companies but the problem is that they do not have all the software SDK that I require.....they are bad at the software .

And...many of them are unreliable.

I have tried lots of Google searching (and how!( and Alibaba and global sources.

Now I am also trying out a couple of Indian agents/middlemen in China. Also I am asking my end clients and networking within this industry that I am servicing to get data about ODMs and OEMs.

No plans of going to China in person now.

Any suggestions brother?

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 11 Nov 2013 00:03

mahadevbhu wrote:
Raja Bose wrote: No plans of going to China in person now.
So I need some RFID access control devices in the thousands for a large IT project that I am executing....but the problem is that I am not able to get directly to the factories .

From what I hear the actual manufacturer does not know anything about sales ..so there are all these middlemen companies and traders who come in the middle.

I don't have any problem with the trading companies but the problem is that they do not have all the software SDK that I require.....they are bad at the software .

And...many of them are unreliable.

I have tried lots of Google searching (and how!( and Alibaba and global sources.

Now I am also trying out a couple of Indian agents/middlemen in China. Also I am asking my end clients and networking within this industry that I am servicing to get data about ODMs and OEMs.

No plans of going to China in person now.

Any suggestions brother?

You need to be on the ground in chipanda land or have your agent there to make this happen. Otherwise they will rip chaddi off your pichwada and you will keep saying 'thank u thank u'. Sourcing direct from factories may not be feasible....in fact a lot of factory wallahs may discourage you from directly sourcing from them given they get a lot of business from these middlemen who act as scouts and they can't just deny them their cut and piss 'em off, no?

ArmenT · Post by **ArmenT** » 11 Nov 2013 00:11

mahadevbhu saar, you might find this blog interesting reading then, especially the stuff in the "Made in China" category. You probably want to go all the way to the last page and start reading it backwards from the earliest post to the newest one.

In one of the early posts, the author mentions that it is best to have someone on the ground to act as a liaison to various vendors and subcontractors and also have engineers on site to monitor production quality and make sure that sub-contractors are not taking short cuts. In the next post, he reveals the name of the company they went with (it is an Irish company which has a well-established network of trusted vendors and subcontractors in China + people to monitor the production and distribution processes). He also mentions in other posts why it is important to visit the factory yourself and debug the production process as well.

This series of four posts on The Factory Floor is also very informative, as the author is actually speaking from experience. As before, you probably want to start reading backwards from the earliest post to the latest one. Incidentally, he mentions another company (not the Irish one, but another one from Fremont, CA) who he now partners with for manufacturing services. Those guys handle dealing with the Chinese vendors and subcontractors for him. The fourth post in the series ("Picking (and Maintaining) a Partner") is very interesting.

member_20292 · Post by **member_20292** » 11 Nov 2013 01:53

^^^
wow. thanks arment sar and RB saar.

now, my pockets are shallow. so the max I can do at this point, seems to be to get me an agent in qin.

there are two I am dealing with right now.

1. One Delhi based guy who lives in hangzhou, china, and has an office full of people there . 8 years of experience.

2. one nepal based mallu guy, through another reference. He has some other agents in china who are trustworthy.

lets see what they turn up.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 11 Nov 2013 06:38

Armen mullah, remember Johnny Lee Chung of Wiimote hack/Kinect fame? Looks like he has given up on Google[x] and moved to Motor Oil ATAP full time. Might be an indication that [x] is not focusing too much on devices in his areas of interest (which we can guess what they are) and that Motor Oil is on its way to become Chacha's integrated HW arm (right now they have a Chinese wall of sorts separation).

member_20292 · Post by **member_20292** » 11 Nov 2013 17:10

ArmenT wrote:mahadevbhu saar, you might find this blog interesting reading then, especially the stuff in the "Made in China" category. You probably want to go all the way to the last page and start reading it backwards from the earliest post to the newest one.

In one of the early posts, the author mentions that it is best to have someone on the ground to act as a liaison to various vendors and subcontractors and also have engineers on site to monitor production quality and make sure that sub-contractors are not taking short cuts. In the next post, he reveals the name of the company they went with (it is an Irish company which has a well-established network of trusted vendors and subcontractors in China + people to monitor the production and distribution processes). He also mentions in other posts why it is important to visit the factory yourself and debug the production process as well.

This series of four posts on The Factory Floor is also very informative, as the author is actually speaking from experience. As before, you probably want to start reading backwards from the earliest post to the latest one. Incidentally, he mentions another company (not the Irish one, but another one from Fremont, CA) who he now partners with for manufacturing services. Those guys handle dealing with the Chinese vendors and subcontractors for him. The fourth post in the series ("Picking (and Maintaining) a Partner") is very interesting.

I went through this blog, and by golly, is this guy informative!

thank you for the recommendation of this blog.

According to the blog;

1. nothing beats a guy on the ground making factory visits to China.
2. 1* 1 million