INS Vikramaditya: News and Discussion

[chetak]

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NEWS/news ... wsid=20556
I am sorry to say, we have gone leaps and bounds on news headlines like these

INS Vikramaditya will be unarmed on its 60-day journey home

Is ddm trying to nudge some somali pakis to do a uss cole?

SICK!!!

I don't think that the ship is completely unarmed.

She is also being escorted by another IN warship (s). Even the fleet tanker is armed, sirjee.

[Karan M]

Sanjaykumar, deception jamming makes you believe there is no jamming occurring to begin with. Noise jamming, yes - you can home on jam.

[SNaik]

SNaik , Any info on the EW/ESM suite installed on Vikramaditya ? Thanks.

MP-401/405 export version.

[Peregrine]

Peregrine ji,

IIRC, There haven't been any FFO consuming IN warships for many years now. Nothing left to convert.

chetak Ji :

IOW I take it that in addition to the INS Vikramaditya the other Steam Turbine Propelled Vessels i.e. INS Viraat. INS Jalashwa, 3 of Bramhaputra Class, 3 of the Godavari Class and the Replenishing Tanker INS Jyoti have also been converted from Furnace Oil to LSHSD,

Many thanks indeed.

Cheers

[harbans]

I don't think low sulfur will be used in India. It may be being used on the journey from Russia to India, as transit may require by law use of Low sulfur fuels in Europe. In India i think they will use normal HSD.

[SNaik]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKOn6CjKRXA#t=13

[chetak]

Peregrine ji,

IIRC, There haven't been any FFO consuming IN warships for many years now. Nothing left to convert.

chetak Ji :

IOW I take it that in addition to the INS Vikramaditya the other Steam Turbine Propelled Vessels i.e. INS Viraat. INS Jalashwa, 3 of Bramhaputra Class, 3 of the Godavari Class and the Replenishing Tanker INS Jyoti have also been converted from Furnace Oil to LSHSD,

Many thanks indeed.

Cheers

Peregrine ji,

To clarify, these ships that you have mentioned have never used Furnace oil ever.(3 of Bramhaputra Class, 3 of the Godavari Class and the Replenishing Tanker INS Jyoti, All were new built to use LSHSD only) Not sure of the earlier history of INS Viraat and INS Jalashwa, but under Indian colors, only LSHSD is being used. I strongly suspect that they may have also never used FFO.

BTW, dust off that hat and break out the salt and pepper, you are going to be eating it soon.

The Vik will definitely spend more than 90 days at sea. She needs to train and work up with the rest of the fleet as well as iron out the kinks to take advantage of the russian guarantee team.

[Peregrine]

Peregrine ji,

To clarify, these ships that you have mentioned have never used Furnace oil ever.(3 of Bramhaputra Class, 3 of the Godavari Class and the Replenishing Tanker INS Jyoti, All were new built to use LSHSD only) Not sure of the earlier history of INS Viraat and INS Jalashwa, but in India and under Indian colors, only LSHSD is being used. I strongly suspect that they may have also never used FFO.

chetak Ji :

Thank you ever so much. One finds it very very interesting and breath taking.

Of course the cost of Fuel for the Indian Navy's Fleet must have Sky-rocketed.

Well for me - Here Endeth the Lesson!

Thanks again.

Cheers

[chetak]

Peregrine ji,

To clarify, these ships that you have mentioned have never used Furnace oil ever.(3 of Bramhaputra Class, 3 of the Godavari Class and the Replenishing Tanker INS Jyoti, All were new built to use LSHSD only) Not sure of the earlier history of INS Viraat and INS Jalashwa, but in India and under Indian colors, only LSHSD is being used. I strongly suspect that they may have also never used FFO.

chetak Ji :

Thank you ever so much. One finds it very very interesting and breath taking.

Of course the cost of Fuel for the Indian Navy's Fleet must have Sky-rocketed.

Well for me - Here Endeth the Lesson!

Thanks again.

Cheers

The eyetalian parivar has removed all tax concessions on diesel for the Forces as well as the Railways to cater for MNREGA, food bill et al. Fuel costs have indeed skyrocketed.

[SaiK]

SNaik never fails to deliver right media content at the right time! kudos.

[member_27808]

Some good photos:

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/ins- ... 25135.html

http://voiceofrussia.com/2013_11_16/Vik ... #250495928

[Austin]

MP-401/405 export version.

Thanks , Any info link , pictures ?

[Austin]

On board the INS Vikramaditya

[tsarkar]

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-0zzBjpjWOiU/U ... 1600/5.JPG

INS Vikrant was R11, INS Viraat R22, good to see INS Vikramaditya carry R33 pennant.

The crests here show the squadrons operating from the carrier.

First is INAS 333 operating Ka28
Next is INAS 339 operating Ka31
Next is INAS 303 operating MiG29

On the right is INAS 300 operating Sea Harriers
Next is INAS 330 operating Seaking Mk42B. This is one of the best crests I’ve ever come across.
Next is INAS 321 operating Chetak

[Austin]

Nice Article

Notes from the Vikramaditya



What a thrill it was to see with my own eyes the perfectly repaired boilers that were damaged during the full steam tests! “Now they are in full working order,” I was assured by Yuri Razdobudko, brigadier of constructors of one of the machines. I was even allowed to hold in my hands a fire-resistant brick (they are used for thermal protection of the boilers)!

[SNaik]

Where's our resident expert SNaik ? Where are the exclusive pics, kaffir ?

Ok, I suppose I've waited long enough for an apology from the author or reaction from moderators. R/o from now on. Good luck, guys, and thanks for all the fish.

[RKumar]

SNaik ... you are taking that comment in wrong sense. I understood/interpret it ...

"Where is our expert on Naval issues when such an important event is happening, We need him more now then ever."

[Austin]

SNaik you misunderstood the comment there

[member_20292]

Where's our resident expert SNaik ? Where are the exclusive pics, kaffir ?

Ok, I suppose I've waited long enough for an apology from the author or reaction from moderators. R/o from now on. Good luck, guys, and thanks for all the fish.

There are some of us who read your posts and value them without saying much in return.

[Haresh]

Would it be a good idea to travel through the Suez canal ??

Suez Canal targeted as war in Sinai spreads

The eccentric but dangerous war in the Sinai Peninsula is spilling over into the rest of Egypt, with ships targeted in the Suez Canal

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... reads.html

[Philip]

Russia’s latest addition to Indian military might

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/r ... 358813.ece

S. Anandan

Defence Minister A.K. Antony commissioned the refurbished carrier Admiral Gorshkov into the Indian Navy as INS Vikramaditya at the Sevmash Shipyard in Russia on Saturday. Photo:PTI

Vikramaditya, another shining example of our long-standing ties, says Antony

Defence Minister A.K. Antony on Saturday called Russia a “time-tested friend” with whom India enjoyed a “special relationship.”

With Russian help, India had survived many challenges and grown in military might, Mr. Antony told the media aboard the newly-inducted aircraft carrier INS Vikramaditya. “Today’s handing over [of the carrier] is yet another shining example of the long-standing relationship between India and Russia. After nine years of waiting, at last the Indian Navy [has] got the Vikramaditya. There was a time when we thought it would never materialise, but the Navy, the government, the Russian Navy, the Russian government, the Sevmash Shipyard [which modernised the carrier] and its crew worked tirelessly and overcame the challenges,” said Mr. Antony about the long-winding and protracted carrier reconstruction project that had, at times, threatened to jeopardise the Indo-Russian relationship.

Mr. Antony said the carrier was just one of the many important military projects India had with Russia. Refusing to divulge details about the forthcoming India-Russia Intergovernmental Commission on Military Technical Cooperation meeting in Moscow on Monday, the Defence Minister said discussions would be held for further expansion of military cooperation in various fields. He offered no response to a question whether the lease of a second nuclear submarine would come up for discussion at the meeting.

Mr. Antony showered praises on Sevmash Shipyard, Russia’s nuclear submarine-building facility, for taking up the carrier project — its first — and doing a commendable job of it. “The project would have been given by the government of the day with great hope. There were delays, but we now realise that there were real challenges [in its execution].

Earlier, speaking at the commissioning ceremony, he termed the transformation of the carrier as an engineering marvel, which had tested the professionalism, capability and perseverance of the Indian Navy and the Russian industry, especially the Sevmash Shipyard. He expressed the hope that Russia would extend India all possible support to ensure that the ship functioned effectively for the duration of its expected operational cycle of 25 years.

Asked whether Indian pilots were qualified to operate MiG-29k fighters from the carrier deck, Chief of Naval Staff Admiral D.K. Joshi said flying operations had been partially begun — full operations would be possible only after the carrier reached India.

Sources told The Hindu that fighter operations from the carrier’s deck would take place within weeks of the carrier’s arrival at Karnataka’s Karwar in January.

[Singha]

folks Snaik only posts in the naval threads. pls do not expect him to understand the lingo or banter of the paki related threads.

[Bob V]

Where's our resident expert SNaik ? Where are the exclusive pics, kaffir ?

Ok, I suppose I've waited long enough for an apology from the author or reaction from moderators. R/o from now on. Good luck, guys, and thanks for all the fish.

You have misunderstood that comment made in BRF lingo. I had hoped you would be the one to provide us a sneak peek, since BRF is always ahead of the curve.

[harbans]

I was even allowed to hold in my hands a fire-resistant brick (they are used for thermal protection of the boilers)!

What she's holding is furnace shell packing material. Nothing really special. Inner linings of furnaces, incinerators use this retardant material.

[rajithn]

[quote="chetak"]http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NEWS/news ... wsid=20556
I am sorry to say, we have gone leaps and bounds on news headlines like these

[quote]
There are more than 5 vessels escorting her. Including ones you see on the surface and those at you dont.

[RKumar]

Bahut pareshan kiya': Why India is so relieved that Vikramaditya is here

It seems Russian are feeling we robbed them, while simply forgetting that India has paid through nose and took all the risk. No matter, what we or Russian say at public ceremony but there was a lot of rift and turf war between people of two countries.

"Bahut pareshan kiya," fumes a sailor on the crew of INS Vikramaditya, the massive new addition to the Indian Navy's fleet. The Russians troubled us a lot, he says, succinctly describing the Indian Navy's experience over the last 10 years in this freezing town on the White Sea coast. The 45,000 ton aircraft carrier was ceremonially transferred to the Indian Navy on November 16, nearly five years later than promised and over $1.5 billion over contracted cost. While November 16 marks an undoubtedly important day for Indo-Russian relations, the over 1,600 Indians officers and sailors departing these shores later this month won't be sorry to do so. At every level, big and small, from the level of the entire navy, down to the youngest sailor, there's relief that it's finally over.

"Eta secret". Russian for "Sorry, that's secret". That, according to Indian personnel who've spent years in Severodvinsk learning how to sail their enormous new ship, has been the most common response from Russian personnel to any query or request for help. Over 188 days, during two rounds of sea trials between 2012 and 2013, Indian personnel are said to have been deeply irritated with the manner in which the Russian trial team on board ran the show, speaking largely in their own language, and ticking off mandatory test points on the ship, while bewildered Indian Navy personnel repeatedly requested them to slow down and take everyone on board, so to speak. The Indian side has had far less experience on the ship than it would have liked: of the 19,500 miles covered by the ship during trials, barely 1,700 miles were under the command of Commodore Suraj Berry, who is now officially commanding officer of the vessel.

Hundreds of Indian officers and sailors have been rotated through Severodvinsk over the last decade in embedded observation teams or specialised training units. The length of their commitment has meant that most brought along their families on two year stints to the town, a tough call, given that it is truly a tiny town whose economy is entirely centred around the shipyard that converted the Admiral Gorshkov into the Vikramaditya. Unlike Moscow and St. Petersburgh, Severodvinsk doesn't have any English schools to speak of, forcing many families to leave their children behind in India with relatives, or make the younger ones attend good Russian medium schools in this town. No Indian military project has seen such a large-scale excursion of personnel to another country for such an extended period.

But for a small town, Severodvinsk has an unusually vibrant night life, with several popular clubs and restaurants. Two of them -- 'Rome' and 'Wasabi' -- have been popular with young Indian officers when they've got time off attending to ship duties. The local 'black' brew has apparently been the most intriguing on the Indian drinking palate.

"Brave as the Sun," reads a poster placed near the vessel at her commissioning ceremony. When the Vikramaditya transits through the Mediterranean Sea into relatively warmer climes next month, her crew will welcome the sun, for whom the ship gets its name, like they've perhaps never done before. Many among Vikramaditya's crew belong to the Garhwal hills and Himachal Pradesh, but they've never experienced the unrelenting, almost hostile cold of Severodvinsk, helped heartily by freezing cold winds from the north that bring snow and sleet in abundance. In the words of crewman Umrao Ghatori, "Such weather is simply not worth it. It is sometimes difficult to work. And when you're creating a warship, there's no 'downtime' as such."

Even Defence Minister AK Antony quipped on Saturday on the Vikramaditya's flight deck, "Everything is wonderful except the weather."

Over the last one year that the Vikramaditya has had its full complement of sailors and officers, the ship's galley has had to work with whatever produce is in season, since shipping in such large quantities of vegetables or fruit was unviable. The ship's cooks therefore learned to cook with several local vegetables as well. Given how the relative drudgery of open ocean makes meal time perhaps the most anticipated time of day on any warship, Vikramaditya's crew are near unanimously looking forward to food favourites. Lt Cdr Manoj Parashar, a mechanical engineer on the ship says his favourite vegetable, ladies' finger, is shipped in during a brief period from Sweden, and is hugely expensive. "I can't wait to be in a place where bhindi isn't such a big deal," he says.

Above all, Project 11430 has been a mutual embarrassment to India and Russia, that both sides will be relieved to see completed with the ship's delivery. Between 2007-2010, the programme very nearly destroyed relations when the Russians reported that the scope of work on the erstwhile Admiral Gorshkov had been severely underestimated. The project made both countries look deeply inept and inefficient, but the only one with anything to lose was India. The deal was one of the last big ticket items pushed through by the Atal Bihari Vajpayee government, after which it coursed from one disaster to the next, until Russia dropped a bomb in 2007 about how they got it so badly wrong. In many ways, those involved with bringing the deal in, will be relieved that the Vikramaditya is leaving Russian shores for what is hopefully the last time. They include the former Prime Minister, his defence minister George Fernandes, and former navy chiefs Admiral Sushil Kumar and Admiral Madhvendra Singh.

Incumbent Navy chief Admiral DK Joshi was polite when he said the ship was the result of "exceptional perseverance."

Antony even found reason to say, "Now that the ship is ours, I can confide in you. The whole programme very nearly failed."

"The Indians changed a lot of specifications, and asked for many things that had not been contracted initially," says Igor Leonov, chief commissioning officer for the Vikramaditya project, and a man who will be one among 183 persons travelling with the ship to India next month to 'guarantee' her for the first year.

With only her hull harking back to the erstwhile Soviet warship she once was, and virtually everything else either brand new or fully refurbished, including thousands of kilometres of cabling, the Russians repeatedly suggest that Vikramaditya is effectively a new warship, not a repaired one. This, the Indian Navy agrees with. With an operational life of approximately 40 years, the Vikramaditya is unlikely to need any major work for at least a decade if not more. As she sails home, escorted by four Indian warships, including the Indian Navy's sole aircraft carrier INS Viraat from the Persian Gulf, the Indian crew knows that their new home was perhaps worth waiting for, and that they've effectively got a new warship for a second-hand price. The 183 Russians on board the ship for the journey home never fail to remind them of this.

Among that Russian contingent escaping their country's winter to sail to India will be nine interpreters who will be based in Karwar for a period of at least three months to ensure, in the words of one of them Sasha, that there are no "communication gaps".

Both sides know they've had too many of those.

[koti]

If the ships endurance is quoted as 45 days, how can it do a 2 month journey? Do the replenishments from Deepak include anything other then fuel?

[NRao]

This was never a win-win project.

Also over the past decade this little thing called "India" has changed dramatically. So much so that even her own leaders are not aware of the amount of change that has taken place. What to talk about the Russians?

The crap has yet to hit the fan with the MMRCA and the FGFA.

[JE Menon]

No point in whining and moaning. Build our own. Or hold noses and swallow.

Who supplied the Russians or the Americans their ships?

[NRao]

On an ancient iPod ........

OT.

IMHO the only way out tech barter. If India were to rely on any other nation for anything there is that certainty that India would be at their mercy. Bound to happen.

Then to expect India to do everything in-house is to expect too much, not to talk about costs.

Best is for India to be too good and economical at a few things so that she can rely on others and others rely on her - both sides maintaining a good balance so that FP is not impacted either way.

(Paki does it - to some extent - exporting terror.)

[vasu raya]

More space launches? they have US backing anyways

Mass manufacturing of SoC? they already have a huge Intel plant there

Maybe weapon JVs with products to sell to the middle east market that they can't sell directly? like China intends to sell us its 'own' weapons and then we have a huge oil bill to pay anyways

Instead of just exporting rare earths to Japan hopefully we ask them to invest in diesel electric drives across the automotive sector or better get the tech and export to them, a stand China has taken?

hey one can ponder while Vik completes its journey

[Rahul M]

Where's our resident expert SNaik ? Where are the exclusive pics, kaffir ?

Ok, I suppose I've waited long enough for an apology from the author or reaction from moderators. R/o from now on. Good luck, guys, and thanks for all the fish.

well, I didn't realize you were offended by it. in which case people usually let us know by reporting said post.

as has been mentioned, using faux pak-speak is a BR sub-culture of sorts, no offence was intended by Bob V.
perhaps this will help you understand where BobV was coming from https://sites.google.com/site/brfdictio ... ounciation

[Rahul M]

If the ships endurance is quoted as 45 days, how can it do a 2 month journey? Do the replenishments from Deepak include anything other then fuel?

they will make port calls, obviously.

[rohanldsouza]

Apologies for a kind of "long rant" in advance.

A few facts need to be out in perspective when we talk about delays regarding INS Vikramaditya

1. Aircraft carriers on average take 3-5 odd years to build when you have aircraft carrier manufacture down to an art form.

2. The USA can build an aircraft carrier in a 5 year time frame after design is completed provided there are NO Budget Issues (that too only Nuclear powered - Not conventional like the rest of the world).

3. The USA's carriers cost more than 7 Billion+ each, almost 3 times the Cost India paid Russia for a more than 90% New Aircraft Carrier which is a bargain. Am not sure how much INS Vikrant 92013) or the Vikrant Class carriers will cost since they are yet to become Operational / hit the Water running.

4. The CAG can comment on money wasted , but then they are Only "Bean Counters" NOT Engineers who build stuff or Indian Navy guys who go out to sea.

5. The French / British have had trouble manufacturing their air craft carriers even with their long experience.

6. China - the country the Media loves to compare India with including on defense matters took Only "12 years" to get their 4. Aircraft carriers on average take 3-5 odd years when you have air craft manufacture down to an art the way the USA has.

5. The French / British have had trouble manufacturing Aircraft Carriers even with the long experience.

6. China - the country people like to compare India with regarding defense took Only 12 years to get this hulk and up to the status of just a training ship aka "Liaoning" ship which was fully built but NOT Out-Fitted in the water and are still at "Training ship status" as of Now.

7. India has been tinkering with the idea of "home grown aircraft carrier" since 1989 - around 24 odd years or nearly 1/4 century. India should have had our own design in the water by Now, instead of whining about late delivery. Even now in 2013 we don't yet have INS Vikrant (2013) operational, hopefully will be operational by 2017 time frame (schedule not written in stone Yet).

8. Indian "babus" wasted almost 5 Odd years negotiating with Russia on the price. Indian babus must have thought their experience in "Bhindi Bazaar" would come in handy. the Babus who have a mentality of cutting by 1/2 all requirements should have let the Indian Navy Professionals do the numbers and then accepted the Indian Navy's recommendation instead of their Lowest Bidder Logic.
or atleast reduced the time wasted in Price Negotiations.

9. The Russians went through a major crisis due to the dissolution of the Ex-Soviet Union in the 1990's time frame, same as India. Russian economy went down and the Soviet Era skilled military industry personnel were distributed among the republics even though Russia got the biggest share of the ex-Soviets military might.

Best is we make INS Vikramaditya operational soonest so that we have a "2 Carrier Blue Water navy" operational ASAP. And yes our Indian Navy expansion plans for the next 5 - 10 years proceed as per plan with least delays. Then India can be what India wants to be, a major Player on the world stage with military might and economy hand in hand.

INS Vikramaditya will still be around 40 years from Now when the Babus are in their graves.

Just my 2 Paisa.

[Lilo]

^^ Agree 100%.
Shiv Aroor's is whining in the artecal onlee because of his pyaar for his western pals, methinks. They probably wouldnt countenance if his write up in any manner gives credit to Russians for finally delivering on their Gorshkov promise.

[SaiK]

Till Arihant operationalized, and subsequent reactors have reached certain years of service, we have to see Vikramaditya and ADS variants with non-nuclear powered. I'm 100% positive we are moving towards nuke power carriers and submarines for the future.. it is just a wait worth it, but the program should be chartered in, and gone into budgeting and future plans.

[Indranil]

Where's our resident expert SNaik ? Where are the exclusive pics, kaffir ?

Ok, I suppose I've waited long enough for an apology from the author or reaction from moderators. R/o from now on. Good luck, guys, and thanks for all the fish.

SNaik ji,

Nobody realized that you got offended. I hope you continue to post here as this thread needs you.

[RKumar]

Don't shoot the messenger, why this 3x times the costs when Russia was giving it for free and we should have paid only about refit. Russians them self said they underestimate it so how come it was India Babu's "Bhindi Bazaar". Anyway it is a history and I have no mood of going in circular path.

China and US are not comparable because
- US has the money and technical know how. Second they build 100,000 tons AC as compared to 44,500 tons.
- China, you don't know what they do, since when and at what cost. Their real time frame and finance are hidden.

I will stick to following quotes

Incumbent Navy chief Admiral DK Joshi was polite when he said the ship was the result of "exceptional perseverance."

Antony even found reason to say, "Now that the ship is ours, I can confide in you. The whole programme very nearly failed."

[sanjaykumar]

Reading the report on Indians having 'queries' every six months explains much.

They basically were using the Gorshkov refit to formulate the design and execution of IAC-1.

[Peregrine]

If the ships endurance is quoted as 45 days, how can it do a 2 month journey? Do the replenishments from Deepak include anything other then fuel?

koti Ji :

According to Jane's the Admiral Gorshkov has a Cruising Range of 13,800 Miles at 18 Knots. The Distance from Archangel to Karwar - Mumbai via the Cape of Good Hope is about 12,700 Miles. At an average speed of 18 Knots she would complete the voyage in about 30 Days, but, I am sure the Carrier group will do their "Exercises" at Sea en route to India.

In addition the INS Vikramaditya - if need - can replenish from the INS Deepak at Sea and as such I do not think that the INS Vikramaditya Carrier Group will visit any "Replenishment" Port on its Voyage to Karwar - Mumbai Range.

Cheers