Mangalyaan: ISRO's Mars Orbiter Mission

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Re: Mangalyaan : ISRO's Mars Orbiter Mission

Post by prashanth »

Interview in The Hindu.
Mars Orbiter tests have shown our ability to predict: ISRO chairman
In the early hours of December 1, around 00.36 hours, we have the trans-Mars injection of our Mars spacecraft. On that day, we are going to use the 440 Newton liquid engine again to impart a delta-v, that is, an incremental velocity of nearly 648 metres a second to the spacecraft and the engine will burn for 1,351 seconds.
When this running of the 440 Newton liquid engine takes place on December 1, we also have eight numbers of 22 Newton control thrusters firing.
Worth reading fully.
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Re: Mangalyaan : ISRO's Mars Orbiter Mission

Post by member_28108 »

Dates of Midcourse corrections
December 11, we plan to have one small firing for mid-course correction of the spacecraft. There may be one more mid-course correction during the helio-centric phase, and subsequently, a fortnight before the spacecraft’s arrival near Mars, there will be one more mid-course correction. So there will be three mid-course corrections between December 1, 2013 and September 24, 2014.

Any one knows how the dates of midcourse corrections are planned ?
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Re: Mangalyaan : ISRO's Mars Orbiter Mission

Post by NRao »

Any one knows how the dates of midcourse corrections are planned ?
I do not think there is a hard and fast rule that is followed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_dyn ... orrections.

It is a matter of correcting the trajectory. IF there is a need, they command a correction. Thus *planned*. As far as "dates" it is more of a marker I would think - if the craft needs correction prior to that they will not wait till such a date.
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Re: Mangalyaan : ISRO's Mars Orbiter Mission

Post by member_28108 »

I was asking because they have a defined midcourse correction for MAVEN. I was thinking if they are " patching conics" they may be defining these dates apart from course corrections due to accumulated errors.
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Re: Mangalyaan : ISRO's Mars Orbiter Mission

Post by NRao »

All projects have a plan.

But, as even you stated, corrections have to happen when they need to happen. Cannot wait for a planned date.

I would not take them too seriously. But will check and get back if there is indeed a real reason for them.
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Re: Mangalyaan : ISRO's Mars Orbiter Mission

Post by juvva »

My guess is that they will carry out a coarse course correction early in the mission ( Dec 11th ), because a small correction (hence little fuel ) will add up to a significant correction in the long flight. They may be expecting only small fine tuning later as they approach the target.
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Re: Mangalyaan : ISRO's Mars Orbiter Mission

Post by member_28108 »

I found that one reason for a "Planned midcourse correction" is that the launches are often directed slightly "off target" because they do not want the higher stages to crash on to the target(for eg Mars) as they course on after separation and would do so if they were in the same trajectory.So they often slightly veer off in the initial stages and then have a planned correction to direct the main satellite or probe to the desired direction - so that is one reason for a "planned midcourse correction".That is what was done for Mars Reconniasance orbiter (where originally there were 5 midcourse corrections planned of which the first was to correct the planned "off bulls eye" shot.
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Re: Mangalyaan : ISRO's Mars Orbiter Mission

Post by juvva »

MOM looking at mother earth, color camera image in MOM FB page....
("saare jahan se acha hindustan hamaara")
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Re: Mangalyaan : ISRO's Mars Orbiter Mission

Post by Sriman »

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Re: Mangalyaan : ISRO's Mars Orbiter Mission

Post by member_28108 »

Great- image resolution at this distance was 3.5 Kms.Must be stunning when taken at the perigee.That would be approximately 20 meters at perigee.
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Re: Mangalyaan : ISRO's Mars Orbiter Mission

Post by juvva »

^ hope at that resolution it can make out dust storms of mars.

Looks like a cyclone brewing off the east coast.
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Re: Mangalyaan : ISRO's Mars Orbiter Mission

Post by SSSalvi »

SaiK wrote:Satellite ID
39370
Velocity (km/s)
1.618
Velocity (mi/s)
1.005
Latitude (°)
19.596
Longitude(°)
70.395
Height (km)
117322.771
Height (mi)
72900.967

it looks like 2/3rd distance from perigee.
iSat site
Could you please give a link for iSAT????

Apogee time with current orbit :

Calculations yield Apogee to be 194653.7 Kms on 3rd Dec 2013 at 0659GMT.
http://indiaspaceactivity.blogspot.in/2 ... lyaan.html
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Re: Mangalyaan : ISRO's Mars Orbiter Mission

Post by SaiK »

indranil had earlier posted it few pages back if you had noticed it SSS!

anyway, here it is.. but i am lazy to search that post for you for details now. /later
http://science.nasa.gov/iSat/
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Re: Mangalyaan : ISRO's Mars Orbiter Mission

Post by ramana »

juvva wrote:^ hope at that resolution it can make out dust storms of mars.

Looks like a cyclone brewing off the east coast.

That could be Cyclone Helen due to land at Kavali, Andhra Pradesh.
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Re: Mangalyaan : ISRO's Mars Orbiter Mission

Post by SaiK »

juvva wrote:MOM looking at mother earth, color camera image in MOM FB page....
("saare jahan se acha hindustan hamaara")
Here is the text for the image:
We have a nice little thing to share with all of you... yesterday in the process of testing our payloads we turned the Mars Color Camera towards the Earth and switched it on... and here is the "First ever image of Earth Taken by Mars Color Camera"

This image was taken yesterday at around 1350 hrs from a height of almost 70,000 km above earth and has a spatial resolution of 3.5 km... We are certain we're going to get some great shots in the orbit of Mars ...
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Re: Mangalyaan : ISRO's Mars Orbiter Mission

Post by vina »

Cross Posting... I think ISRO needs to take a hard look at it's Semi Cryo booster program.
semi cryogenic engine is entering project phase starting with ground test development facilities
I have mixed feelings about this. ISRO should ditch RP-1 / Kerosene for it's LOX / Hydrocarbon engine and aim for a LOX / LCH4 engine . That sort of engine has a higher Isp than the Kerosene ones, (ie more efficient in Inglees), and potentially reusable via a Fly Back Booster (basically, after getting jettisoned, the booster flies back and lands like an airplane). That fly back part can come a bit later, but the engines and basic systems can be fully proven now, since we are starting with a clean sheet anyway.

ISRO should stop reinventing the Russian wheel here and using the RD-180 as a benchmark, aim to have a higher Isp (basically methane and higher chamber pressure with larger expansion ratios) , and have a cutting edge engine.

In the interim, we can do what the Americans (and Koreans for Naro) have done for Titan V. Sign up with the Russians for a 5 year contract for 10 to 12 RD-180 booster stages . Replacing the namby pamby twin Vikas (Weak Ass) 1st stage in the GSLV MKIII would be the first order of priority for higher payloads giving a far higher mass fraction to orbit, and then replacing the RD-180 with an ISRO LCH4 stage would put us right there on top.

And in this day and age with proliferation of LNG and LNG carriers, getting LCH4 will be far easier than RP-1 domestically (using special refinery grades and process) . Even the storage is ready made, at Ennore LNG port and the upcoming Shell LNG facility at Kakinada. ISRO just needs to have a small LNG barge (bought second hand /third hand from anywhere) to ferry some 1000 tons of that stuff some 50 kms from Ennore, just before launch! For Lox, we already have the cryogenic facility. Very skinflint , cheap, dhoti clad , frugal and investment saving onlee!

.
So ISRO ,JUNK the RP1 / Kerosene & LOX . GO for LCH4/LOX. Aim for an Isp of 400s
What will give you the edge is what your basic instinct of being a skinflint , dhoti clad Yindoo tells you. EFFICIENCY . Learn the lesson from Mangalyan. Leave the big Beefcake solutions to the Russians and Americans.
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Re: Mangalyaan : ISRO's Mars Orbiter Mission

Post by SaiK »

was this posted here? posting in full:
http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/op-ed/m ... epage=true
T. S. Subramanian
Mars Orbiter tests have shown our ability to predict: ISRO chairman

After the Polar Satellite Launch Vehicle (PSLV-C25) put India’s Mars Orbiter into a perfect earth-bound orbit on November 5, it has been a smooth journey so far for the spacecraft. The Indian Space Research

Organisation (ISRO) boosted the Mars Orbiter’s apogee in six complex manoeuvres executed between November 7 and 16. ISRO did this by giving commands from the ground to the spacecraft’s propulsion system, called 440 Newton engine, to fire. A crucial event of the trans-Mars injection of the spacecraft will take place on December 1 by a prolonged firing of the 440 Newton engine.

In this context, The Hindu met K. Radhakrishnan, ISRO Chairman, on November 18 in his office at ISRO headquarters, Bangalore, for his assessment of what has been achieved so far in India’s Mars Orbiter Mission, what lies ahead, the complexity of the mission, the spacecraft’s autonomy to take decisions on its own when there is an emergency etc.. Excerpts from the interview with Dr. Radhakrishnan, who is also Chairman, Space Commission and Secretary, Department of Space:

How do you assess what has been achieved so far in ISRO’s Mars Orbiter Mission?

After the launch of the PSLV-C25 on November 5, the separation of the Mars Orbiter from the launch vehicle was smooth and the injection of the spacecraft into the earth-bound orbit was precise. During the last few days, we have been raising the spacecraft’s orbit, specifically its apogee in steps. The first orbit-raising manoeuvre was done in the early hours of November 7. Till now, we have completed six manoeuvres including a supplementary one. Currently, the spacecraft’s apogee is 1,92,915 km.

In the early hours of December 1, around 00.36 hours, we have the trans-Mars injection of our Mars spacecraft. On that day, we are going to use the 440 Newton liquid engine again to impart a delta-v, that is, an incremental velocity of nearly 648 metres a second to the spacecraft and the engine will burn for 1,351 seconds. It is crucial in the sense that we need to give the exact velocity required to take the spacecraft from the earth-orbit, passing through the sphere of influence of the earth which extends up to 9.25 lakh km from the earth, cruise through the long helio-centric phase, then get into the sphere of influence of Mars, and on its arrival near Mars on September 24, 2014, it has to be put into 376 km plus or minus 50 km above Mars at that point of time. On the same day, the next crucial operation of the spacecraft’s Mars orbit insertion has to take place.

When this running of the 440 Newton liquid engine takes place on December 1, we also have eight numbers of 22 Newton control thrusters firing.

What will these control thrusters do?

There are two tasks for them. One is the spacecraft’s attitude control. Secondly, if it is required, they will aid the 440 Newton thrusters to augment its thrust-level. Both the functions will be performed and the Mars spacecraft will then be moving towards the helio-centric orbit. Then on December 11, we plan to have one small firing for mid-course correction of the spacecraft. There may be one more mid-course correction during the helio-centric phase, and subsequently, a fortnight before the spacecraft’s arrival near Mars, there will be one more mid-course correction. So there will be three mid-course corrections between December 1, 2013 and September 24, 2014.

What is the purpose of these mid-course corrections of the Mars spacecraft’s trajectory?

With the velocity imparted to the spacecraft on December 1, 2013, we will have an estimate of its expected position on September 24, 2014. We will be continuously tracking the spacecraft and if there are deviations vis-à-vis the end goal, we will make the corrections. So December 1 will be a crucial operation. The spacecraft’s propulsion system, i.e., the 440 Newton liquid engine, will complete its first phase of operations on December 1. It has to be re-started for its operation on September 24. There is thus a long gap.

How confident are you that you can re-start the 440 Newton engine after it has hibernated in deep space for about 300 days during the spacecraft’s voyage?

We have been using the 440 Newton engine for our Geo-synchronous Satellite - GSAT- missions where the spacecraft’s orbit has to be raised about a week after its launch. In the case of Chandrayaan-1, we had to restart the operation after a fortnight. For that, we had qualified the liquid engine in 2008 to restart after one month.

During the last two years, considering the specific requirements of our Mars Orbiter Mission for re-starting the spacecraft’s 440 Newton engine after it has idled for about 300 days, we had done these two actions. One is we have provided a set of parallel circuits for the propellants’ flow-lines and also provided redundancy in the form of a latch-valve. So what essentially happens is that one portion of the fluid circuit will be closed after December 1. The parallel path will be energised for the operation in September 2014.

Secondly, we had fired the liquid engine in a special test facility established at the Liquid Propulsion Systems Centre at Mahendragiri, Tamil Nadu, for its performance after the re-start. It has been found to be within the specifications. The performance degradation of the engine to restart after such a prolonged period has been only around two per cent and it is well within limits. In the spacecraft’s orbit-raising manoeuvres, during its trans-Mars injection and its insertion into the Martian orbit, the firing of the liquid engine is done in a closed loop mode. Here, a precision accelerometer is used to estimate the incremental velocity added as the liquid engine burns and when the accelerometer gives a feedback that the required incremental velocity added to the spacecraft has been achieved, the burning of the liquid engine is automatically terminated. So, minor variations in the performance of the liquid engine will not matter because we are cutting off its burning based on the delta-v that is achieved. That is why we call it closed loop of firing.

In the absence of such an arrangement, the liquid engine would have been commanded to fire for a given period and any variation in its performance would have resulted in a variation [in the incremental velocity]. But here, what you have to achieve is the incremental velocity. When the programmed incremental velocity is achieved, the engine is cut off.

So what I am trying to convey here is that minor variations in the performance of the liquid engine is not going to affect the mission. If the engine has to work for a few seconds more or a few seconds less, it will be decided by the computer.

In the PSLV itself, we have the closed loop guidance system where the rocket’s fourth stage burning is terminated, based on the conditions achieved. That arrangement is there in the Mars Orbiter’s propulsion system.

Up to 9.25 lakh km from the Earth, the spacecraft will be in the sphere of influence of the Earth. Subsequently, it will be moving into the helio-centric phase of its flight. It is a long one, where you have to look at the influence of other planets and the Moon and then the solar radiation pressure acting on the spacecraft. That pressure varies with respect to time because the geometry of the sun and the spacecraft matters here. This is something we have not done so far and this helio-centric phase of the flight is new to us.

In Chandrayaan-1, we had travelled up to four lakh km, which was well within the sphere of influence of the Earth. But here for the first time, we are moving out of the sphere of influence of the earth. So how the spacecraft will behave during the helio-centric flight of 680 million km along the arc is new to us. Then the spacecraft gets into the sphere of influence of Mars which is nearly six lakh km from Mars.

From our understanding of the Mars gravity model, the influence of the atmosphere of Mars, the influence of the two satellites of Mars and the solar radiation pressure there on the spacecraft are very important. This is also a new thing that we are attempting.

So the navigation of the Mars spacecraft from the orbit of the Earth to the orbit of Mars, passing through all these three phases, is a new knowledge that we are acquiring and validating during the next 300 and odd days.

You have stressed that the centrepiece of our Mars Orbiter is its autonomy. Can you explain how it can take decisions on its own when there are emergencies?

Since long distances are involved in this mission, there will be a delay in the signal from the ground reaching the spacecraft and vice versa. This delay could be of the order of six minutes to 20 minutes one way. In the spacecraft, we have provided redundancies for the critical components and sub-systems. In a normal situation, the ground controllers assess the performance of its systems and give commands from the ground for the switch-over from the primary system to the redundant system [if there is an emergency]. In this particular case, the spacecraft itself has to assess the performance of its systems and this is called Fault Detection, Isolation and Reconfiguration - FDIR.

Secondly, when we need to operate a scientific instrument on board the spacecraft, a chain of commands has to be sent to the spacecraft for reconfiguring it both in terms of its orientation and selection of its various sub-systems and components for the specific payload operation.

Normally, these are sent from the ground. But in the case of the Mars spacecraft, due to the long communication delay, such chains of commands are stored in the spacecraft and they are triggered based on the command from an on-board sequencer. Such commands are, therefore, based on the time-tagged commands sent through the on-board sequencer. You load them well in advance and give the command that at this particular instant, it has to start. If a firing or an operation has to take place at a particular point T, you load the commands well in advance and say that it has to start at this instant.

This is what is provided for in this mission.

The third level of autonomy is to enable the spacecraft to put itself in a “safe mode” in the event of a major anomaly and wait for the commands to be received from the ground. When we say that it has to be put in the “safe-mode”, its antenna should be pointing towards the earth and the solar panels should be in a position to receive the energy from the sun. That means the spacecraft is safe and you can send commands to it. These three levels of autonomy are provided in the spacecraft.

During the orbit-raising manoeuvres which started on November 7 and which went on till the morning of November 16, ISRO has been testing the performance of these redundant systems on the spacecraft and exercising the option of bringing them into operation.

The gyroscopes, accelerometers, star-sensors, and attitude and orbit-control electronics, attitude control thrusters, the FDIR and the thrust augmentation logic, which enables the augmentation of the thrust of the 440 Newton liquid engine by eight numbers of 22 Newton control thrusters during the critical phases of operation, were tested. The termination of the burn of the 440 Newton engine, based on the feedback from the accelerometer, was tested. The on-board sequencer, which is used to store and initiate time-tagged command, was also tested.

All these tests took place during the nine days from November 7 to November 16?

All these were tested during the orbit-raising manoeuvres. The expected orbital parameters have been achieved closely. It shows our ability to predict and we have seen that happen. Currently, the Mars Orbiter is in a highly elliptical orbit with an apogee of 1,92,915 km.

Regarding our preparedness for the spacecraft’s trans-Mars injection on December 1, as on today, we have raised the spacecraft’s apogee to the required 1.9 lakh km. We have raised its orbital inclination and other parameters to the required level. We have tested the spacecraft’s sub-systems and the provision for autonomous operations when required.

During the next ten days, we will be exercising the orbiter’s high-gain antenna and the medium-gain antenna which are required to be used when the spacecraft is far away from the Earth. During the orbiter’s Earth-phase in the coming ten days, we will be energising its scientific instruments to check their health.

What are the preparations under way for the lift-off of the Geo-synchronous Satellite Launch Vehicle (GSLV-D5) in December this year? It was to put GSAT-14 into orbit in August last. The lift-off was aborted then because of the leak of liquid propellants from the rocket’s second stage.

The GSLV-D5 was slated for launch in August. An hour and 15 minutes before the scheduled lift-off, we found a leak in the fuel tank of the rocket’s second stage. The leak was detected in time and ISRO quickly decided to call off the launch and to restore the vehicle. We had the entire restoration process done under the guidance of K. Narayana, former Director, Satish Dhawan Space Centre, Sriharikota. The GSAT-14 communication satellite, which was encapsulated in the heat-shield, had been preserved and tested periodically. The cryogenic upper stage was preserved and tested periodically. The rocket’s second stage has been re-done with a new propellant tank made of aluminium alloy 2219. We had to re-furbish the strap-on booster motors. All the components and parts which had come in contact with the leaked liquid propellant have been replaced. The electronic packages residing in the strap-on stages had to be replaced. The rocket’s first stage, which uses solid propellants, has been replaced.

The vehicle’s assembly began in the Vehicle Assembly Building (VAB) on October 18. The rocket’s first stage has been assembled completely. The four strap-on stages are ready to be assembled and they will be done this week from November 20 to 23. The second stage is also ready at Sriharikota and soon after the completion of the assembly of the four strap-on stages, we will be taking up the integration of the second stage. On December 3, we have the Mission Readiness Review (MRR) meeting. Subsequently, the assembly of the indigenous cryogenic stage will begin, followed by the assembly of the electronic bay, the spacecraft and the heat-shield. So the launch of the GSLV-D5 with the indigenous cryogenic stage is scheduled for December-end.

The GSLV-D5 is on top of our agenda. The Mars Orbiter Mission is not at the cost of our GSLV programme. The GSLV programme is going ahead full steam.
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Re: Mangalyaan : ISRO's Mars Orbiter Mission

Post by vdutta »

prasannasimha wrote:
Great- image resolution at this distance was 3.5 Kms.Must be stunning when taken at the perigee.That would be approximately 20 meters at perigee.
From Emily's blog
The photo was shared on Facebook today, and I believe it has been downsized from the original, so better is yet to come. The Mars Colour Camera has a 2000-pixel-square detector, but this image is only about 1400 pixels across. The caption released with the photo speaks of 3.5-kilometer-per-pixel resolution, but I think (based on comparing landmarks to Google Maps) that the image is actually closer to 5 kilometers per pixel. I also notice that two corners have little white triangles in them that make it appear that the photo has been rotated in order to put north up, and then cropped to make it square. I'm going to try to find out more about this photo and any further photos that appear on Facebook over the next weeks -- I'll let you know what I learn!
http://www.planetary.org/blogs/emily-la ... ssion.html
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Re: Mangalyaan : ISRO's Mars Orbiter Mission

Post by ramana »

prasannasimha wrote:Thanks for the Welcome Lilo. I am a cardiac surgeon.
Lot of good discussion also going on the ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission page .Good for learning a bit of Orbital Astronomy.

Please do visit GDF personal health thread and meet other hakims.
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Re: Mangalyaan : ISRO's Mars Orbiter Mission

Post by member_28108 »

Image
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Re: Mangalyaan : ISRO's Mars Orbiter Mission

Post by SaiK »

can some pixel gurus convert that? so, 25 m best case shot per pixel at what height from mars? what does that mean converting to ground object metering resolution - like say can observe 25 meter object? etc..
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Re: Mangalyaan : ISRO's Mars Orbiter Mission

Post by Bade »

By 25m resolution at peri-apsis it means just that, each pixel size corresponds to 25m on the ground on Mars. A 25m object will just be a blob one pixel wide, it is more like saying presence or absence with an associated radiance value or signal which can be used to characterize the object's properties.
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Re: Mangalyaan : ISRO's Mars Orbiter Mission

Post by ramana »

Bade how does the MOM camera at 25m in color compare to other nations Mars/Venus probes?
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Re: Mangalyaan : ISRO's Mars Orbiter Mission

Post by sooraj »

Why are MAVEN and Mars Orbiter Mission taking such different paths to Mars?
http://www.planetary.org/blogs/emily-la ... ainer.html
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Re: Mangalyaan : ISRO's Mars Orbiter Mission

Post by member_28108 »

Mars reconnaissance orbiter has a camera HiRISE, which can snap photos from 300 kilometers above with a resolution down to about a foot

http://www.ibtimes.com/maven-mars-orbit ... st-1475438
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Re: Mangalyaan : ISRO's Mars Orbiter Mission

Post by NRao »

prasannasimha wrote:Mars reconnaissance orbiter has a camera HiRISE, which can snap photos from 300 kilometers above with a resolution down to about a foot

http://www.ibtimes.com/maven-mars-orbit ... st-1475438
(Since this thread is for MOM) For clarity, the HiRISE is for MAVEN (and not for MOM).
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Re: Mangalyaan : ISRO's Mars Orbiter Mission

Post by member_28108 »

No it is for MRI and not MAVEN

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/HiRISE
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Re: Mangalyaan : ISRO's Mars Orbiter Mission

Post by member_28108 »

Sorry MRO. not MRI (blame auto correct)
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Re: Mangalyaan : ISRO's Mars Orbiter Mission

Post by SaiK »

^or blame your profession? ;)

a nice read:
http://www.universetoday.com/105772/mav ... -in-orbit/

and good illustrations
Image

One of the significant differences between MOM and MAVEN regards methane detection – which is a potential marker for Martian life. Some 90% of Earth’s atmospheric methane derives from living organisms.

MOM has a methane sensor but not MAVEN.

“We just had to leave that one off to stay focused and to stay within the available resources ,” Jakosky told me.

MAVEN carries nine sensors in three instrument suites.

The Particles and Fields Package, provided by the University of California at Berkeley with support from CU/LASP and NASA’s Goddard Space Flight Center in Greenbelt, Md., contains six instruments to characterize the solar wind and the ionosphere of Mars. The Remote Sensing Package, built by CU/LASP, will determine global characteristics of the upper atmosphere and ionosphere. The Neutral Gas and Ion Mass Spectrometer, built by Goddard, will measure the composition of Mars’ upper atmosphere.

MOM’s science complement comprises the tri color Mars Color Camera to image the planet and its two moons, Phobos and Deimos; the Lyman Alpha Photometer to measure the abundance of hydrogen and deuterium and understand the planets water loss process; a Thermal Imaging Spectrometer to map surface composition and mineralogy, the MENCA mass spectrometer to analyze atmospheric composition, and the Methane Sensor for Mars to measure traces of potential atmospheric methane down to the ppm level.

“At the point where we [MAVEN and MOM] are both in orbit collecting data we do plan to collaborate and work together with the data jointly,” Jakosky told me.

“We agreed on the value of collaboration and will hold real discussions at a later time,” he noted.

NASA is providing key communications and navigation support to ISRO and MOM through the agency’s trio of huge tracking antennas in the Deep Space Network (DSN).

Read more: http://www.universetoday.com/105772/mav ... z2lToRlZhv
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Re: Mangalyaan : ISRO's Mars Orbiter Mission

Post by SriKumar »

Can anyone point me to a picture that shows the attitude control thrusters on the mangalyaan? ISRO releases have talked about 8 (?) 22 Newton thrusters...so where are they on the craft? This picture shows the craft- covered in gold, with the payload stage opened up. It seems like one can see 2 thrusters (two black circles) at the bottom right of the craft near the gold area, placed at an odd angle. So, are these the thrusters....and where are the other 6.

http://img1.gtimg.com/news/pics/hv1/152 ... 537067.jpg
Image


Very hi-res image here:
http://media.newindianexpress.com/PSLV_ ... LV_EPS.jpg
Added later: If you zoom in here at the base of the craft, many nozzle-like parts are seen, some smaller than the others.
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Re: Mangalyaan : ISRO's Mars Orbiter Mission

Post by sooraj »

ISRO seeking Lord Balaji's blessings is superstition: Professor C N R Rao :eek:
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 275831.cms

from comments
If you forget your culture , your ancestors and your past then the end has come -----Swami Vivekananda.
:)
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Re: Mangalyaan : ISRO's Mars Orbiter Mission

Post by rsingh »

sooraj wrote:ISRO seeking Lord Balaji's blessings is superstition: Professor C N R Rao :eek:
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 275831.cms

from comments
If you forget your culture , your ancestors and your past then the end has come -----Swami Vivekananda.
:)
That is the "Prize Winner Syndrom" (copyright rsingh). These excellent people who win some very high prizes or Honours start thinking that they are expert in everything. They can comment on anything or any subject and get away with them. There are few exceptions tough ie Dr Kalam or Sachin........I have never seen any such comment from them.
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Re: Mangalyaan : ISRO's Mars Orbiter Mission

Post by SaiK »

There always exists a chance that processes have not included a step or two given tight schedule and budget lines. Here comes the human challenge where the unknown is converted to a fear which in-turn converts to superstitions. The human brain has to rely on something to keep its energy focused on the steps that must be followed. Besides, I'd doubt it is 100% automation.. so, there are significant human factor involved. It makes sense to keep a high energy point, be it Lord Balaji, Shiva or Krishna or Lord Christ. At EoD, it is a human brain game, especially when it comes critical sections of thought process.

So, if we understand this.. we can focus on the subject area where we need to redirect our attention.. and definitely not DDM.

Even Mr Rao can't guarantee success of his own theories will work in exactly the same way.
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Re: Mangalyaan : ISRO's Mars Orbiter Mission

Post by member_28108 »

Is it superstition - undeniably so and C N R Rao is undeniably correct.Does it help the members of ISRO allay their fear of uncertainty - seems to help them so would not grudge them as long as it does not interfere with their functioning.Religion is best kept a private and personal affair.
As far as him being quoted - he must have been asked a question and he answered what he thought of it.I have heard him speak many times and he is quite an accomplished man with years of work to his credit. It may so happen that he has been asked a question by a reporter and he gave his forthright opinion about it.
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Re: Mangalyaan : ISRO's Mars Orbiter Mission

Post by Rahul M »

rsingh ji, just like ISRO scientists have a right (to pray, seek blessings etc as long as their professional work is not affected) Prof Rao too has a right to his opinion if asked a question. if it is any consolation, most scientists would use the same word to describe issac newton's religious beliefs.

it's a non issue in this thread.
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Re: Mangalyaan : ISRO's Mars Orbiter Mission

Post by SaiK »

I think the issue is the qualifier, where mr rao can't prove if this is superstition or cultural aspect. praying to God is part of every culture, and one can't abstract out that to be superstition, unless there was nothing science behind the launch. The launch was done based on a schedule delivery, with scientific instruments loaded... it was launched, and successfully orbiting earth, and ready to eject to marsian orbit. All these are science and tech, and there is no superstition in that.

Going to church or temple or praying before a launch is a cultural thing, and nothing superstition about it. Unless you say, I would not launch the vehicle because, a cat crossed the road on the launch day or a married pundit was walking on the street without his wife, etc.. are all superstitions.

there are certain definitional corrections here. superstition is about causality, where the events happen without natural progression. if my culture or way of living is saying allah-o-akbar before a launch, that can't be superstition, but a natural ways of doing things within the domain of cultural existence as humans.

i hope tomorrow, if someone says jai hind or vande mataram be branded as superstitious is a concern now after this.
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Re: Mangalyaan : ISRO's Mars Orbiter Mission

Post by Bade »

ramana wrote:Bade how does the MOM camera at 25m in color compare to other nations Mars/Venus probes?
I did see a few other posts which answered this question. Yes, there are other missions which does better at spatial resolution in their Mars imagery. Having said that, even today we do earth imagery at even coarser resolution for many applications. So even 25m is pretty good. Since they chose this elliptical orbit it will be constraint to do any better in resolution with the instrument they have, which I believe can do better in a lower orbit. Maybe it was optimal considering Signal/Noise characteristics of the camera, hard to say other than speculate. But land imaging is not as stringent as water imaging, as the signal returned is always high.

The Indian mars mission is focused on the Martian atmosphere from reports seen so far, in that case the spatial resolution of land surface imagery of Mars is of less concern, is what I would guess.
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Re: Mangalyaan : ISRO's Mars Orbiter Mission

Post by Bade »

sooraj wrote: from comments
If you forget your culture , your ancestors and your past then the end has come -----Swami Vivekananda.
:)
If you only remember your culture, your ancestors and your past then the end came a long time ago --- said an unnamed country commoner from the era of ancestors
:P
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Re: Mangalyaan : ISRO's Mars Orbiter Mission

Post by SaiK »

MIO 366 km x 80000 km (mars insertion orbit). So is the 25m resolution from 366km height? how does the pixel corresponds to the 2k x 2k array, that means each pixel in the array should further expand to 25m sub-array? how is that done?

me thinking that pixel resolution posted few pages back, is a scale - 1 pixel -> 3.5km from 67,975km.

so bring that 67975 to 366, we should get the 25 m if math is done right..(did not do it)..

PS:

well it is 18.84 m resolution from 366x3500/67975 - not sure, i can do this kind of crap math
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Re: Mangalyaan : ISRO's Mars Orbiter Mission

Post by NRao »

There are few exceptions tough ie Dr Kalam
Errrr....

Dr. K is an authority on "religion". Since it is OT will stop there, but he does not shun it, rather he uses it the way it was meant to be used.
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