Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Aug 21, 2013

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 06 Dec 2013 18:15

Ahl-e-Sunnat-Wal-Jamaat's Punjab President Gunned Down

The provincial leader of the Ahle Sunnat Wal Jamaat (ASWJ), Maulana Shamsur Rehman Muavia, was shot dead Friday by unknown gunmen in Lahore.

According to initial reports, unknown gunmen opened fire on the ASWJ leader's vehicle in the Ravi Road locality of the provincial capital.

Sources in the ASWJ said Muavia was rushed to Mayo hospital, where doctors said he had sustained bullet wounds to the neck, and that he had died on the spot. He was accompanied by a person Adnan who was injured in the attack and is currently revceiving medical treatment.

According to DawnNews, a heavy contingent of police have been deployed around the hospital where wal Jamaat Ahle Sunni leaders and activists are gathering.

DIG operations Lahore Rana Abdul Jabbar said the attack was a conspiracy to spread terrorism and sectarian violence, however, any such attempt would not be allowed to succeed.

It is probably a Shi'a work, Sipah-e-Mohammed.

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 06 Dec 2013 18:59

SSridhar wrote:Ahl-e-Sunnat-Wal-Jamaat's Punjab President Gunned Down
It is probably a Shi'a work, Sipah-e-Mohammed.

Looks like each side is taking out the other side's leadership.

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 06 Dec 2013 19:15

Jhujar wrote: In 48, he lost Jugular, in 65 a leg and arm, 71 half of Mid section,in 99 an eye. Whats left to loose Pakistan. 2 Ears and 1 leg or on eye?

This one got me analyzing the above events from the paki perspective. Somewhere in a paki-bizzaro-zaid-hameid world, I bet their take on the four wars is uber-self-serving with this positive spin:

1. 1948 - Yay! We won a third of Kashmir (even though our regulars and irregulars indulged in loot and rape).
2. 1965 - Woo Hoo!! That (ill-conceived" war at least had the entire nation united for once behind the "Crush India" slogan behind every Datsun even though we almost lost LaWhore.
3. 1971 - Finally!! We got rid of those dark, rice eating bengalees and a philandering dictator with his general Rani (even though we lost half our navy and air force, k'rachi burned for days and a fourth of our army surrendered in full public view).
4. 1999 - Hey! That was a tactical victory for us. We showed the world that you can infiltrate and defend higher grounds for a limited amount of time, and we got rid of a balding fat, pompous PM (even though we lost whatever little face we had left, had to live in shame for starting a possible nuclear war and for reneging an agreement, and skiing downhill from those impregnable holdouts with our asses handed to us on a platter).

What next? Ghazwa-e-Hind 2020?

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 06 Dec 2013 19:21

anupmisra, how can you forget the most important event of 1965 ? The Djinns held green nets and captured all bombs falling down from the IAF bombers, bundled them up and threw them into the Arabian Sea. Blessed are those who saw the operation in bewilderment in front of their very eyes. AoA. I am getting goosebumps even as I write this. Verily, AoA.

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 06 Dec 2013 19:29

SSridhar wrote:It always mistook its tactics as grand strategies.

Right. Even their so-called armchair analysts continue to call Mushy, a great tactician with a limited intellect. Kargil for one may have been a limited tactical victory for them but once it ran its course, it was all an exodus for a downhill ski marathon from there on. Who can forget the tactical blunders by the pakis of 1965 and its precursor, the Rann of Kutch?

Pakis have always termed their retreats as "advances to the rear". Helps the mobin cause.

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 06 Dec 2013 19:31

SSridhar wrote:anupmisra, how can you forget the most important event of 1965 ? The Djinns held green nets and captured all bombs falling down from the IAF bombers, bundled them up and threw them into the Arabian Sea. Blessed are those who saw the operation in bewilderment in front of their very eyes. AoA. I am getting goosebumps even as I write this. Verily, AoA.

Don't forget the white horses and the image of the sword of ali that appeared to lead the mobeens to the rear. I am all teary-eyed. AoA indeed.

abhijitm · Post by **abhijitm** » 06 Dec 2013 19:43

Pak stance on Siachen issue is clear: FO

Code: Select all

http://www.nation.com.pk/islamabad/06-Dec-2013/pak-stance-on-siachen-issue-is-clear-fo

Pakistan’s stance on the Siachen issue is clear and calls for a bilateral withdrawal of forces from the glacier.
Foreign Office Spokesman, Aizaz Chaudhry said Pakistan wanted friendly relations with neighbouring India and troop withdrawal from Siachen should be bilateral.

Siachen in news again. There is only one catch here. TSPA is not in Siachen so they don't have to withdraw.

Last time when pakis and GoI together started this we had almost 50 pages worth hypertension in Siachen thread. I hope not AGAIN!

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 06 Dec 2013 19:45

green robed djinns on camels suarly?

abhijitm · Post by **abhijitm** » 06 Dec 2013 19:54

anupmisra wrote:2. 1965 - Woo Hoo!! That (ill-conceived" war at least had the entire nation united for once behind the "Crush India" slogan behind every Datsun even though we almost lost LaWhore.

Can I make a humble request to everyone on BRF? Can we stop punning the name of Lahore? (this applies to me too). Lahore is a historic hindu city and the etymology traces back to 2000 years. By every mean it is OUR city occupied by fking pakis.

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 06 Dec 2013 20:15

That siachen itch of pakis makes no sense to anyone out of pakis.

Since pakis want friendly relations with India, shouldn't pakis withdraw paki troops from Balochistan?

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 06 Dec 2013 20:43

anupmisra wrote:
What next? Ghazwa-e-Hind 2020?

In 2008 ten men brought the entire Indian economy to a standstill and fought the whole Indian army in Mumbai for 4 days.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 06 Dec 2013 20:51

There was a Pakistani apprehension expressed (and posted here) of growing proximity between the armed forces of India and the US. I can understand.

The Malabar series of exercise between the two navies has evolved into involving integrated air and missile defense, antisubmarine and naval special warfare scenarios. In September 2011, the Indian and American Coast Guard teams also began to engage with each other. By c. 2010, the two countries had conducted over 50 joint military exercises of increasing complexity in a span of only seven years, including nine exercises in circa 2010 alone, indicating the extent of growth of their ties. By c. 2013, it had become 60. By c. 2010, India had also become the country with which the U.S. had the maximum number of joint defence exercises. By c. 2010, India was also conducting more exercises with American forces than with any other nation in the world. The US and Indian Armies conduct three exercises every year, Vajra Prahar (between Special Forces), Shatrujeet (for counter insurgency and counter terrorism) and Yudh Abhyas (‘War Drill’ for infantry and armoured corps). Increasingly, Indian Army, Air Force and Navy conduct joint annual bilateral exercises with their American counterpart units as far away as Alaska or Okinawa (Habu Nag series of war games and joint ambhibious exercises, the annual Salvage Exercises, SALVEX, between the two navies that are to do with techniques associated with diving and salvage etc). The IAF has since c. 2008 been more or less a permanent fixture in what is generally acknowledged as the “Mother of all air combat exercises”, the Red Flag Exercises. In c. 2012, the Indian Navy also joined the largest war game, led by the US Navy, Rim of the Pacific Exercise (RIMPAC) though no warship from the IN actually participated. News has just emerged that in c. 2014, IN's ships and aircraft would participate. In October 2012, the Indian and the US navies kicked off a deep-sea underwater rescue exercise using the DSRV (Deep Sea Rescue Vehicle) of the US Navy. This was a revival of the 1997 contract between the two navies which was rescinded by the US Government after the 1998 Pokhran explosion. The interaction between the armed forces of India and the US had therefore become comprehensive, multi-dimensional and deep-rooted.

Cosmo_R · Post by **Cosmo_R** » 06 Dec 2013 20:58

shiv wrote: In 2008 ten men brought the entire Indian economy to a standstill and fought the whole Indian army in Mumbai for 4 days.

Yes but only with the help of the UPA which even today continues the good work of spiking the economy.

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 06 Dec 2013 20:59

^^^Thanks for summing up that SS.

And that guys, is just what's public. What's below the surface is likely a bit more

SBajwa · Post by **SBajwa** » 06 Dec 2013 21:25

heck naseeruddin shahs own cousin was a col in the army IIRC (t-72 tanker).

http://news.oneindia.in/2012/02/27/saif ... chief.html

Sai Ali Khan's uncle (Chacha in Pakistan) was just now has been demoted. Earlier they were hoping that he becomes in charge of ISI.

Here is some news about Maj Gen. Isfandiyar ali Khan Pataudi

http://www.cmcpk.net/2013/09/five-maj-g ... uperseded/

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 06 Dec 2013 21:52

SSridhar boss, always need to turn to you, like Indian cricket team used to turn to Sachin paaJi

, for finer points. Except for probably MMS types, the dominant thinking among India's strategic elite is that Siachen needs to be part of a comprehensive J&K settlement, most probably along the lines of LoC = IB. Thats why they recommend not dealing with Siachen in isolation as TSP demands. However, for TSP, Siachen is a perpetual anal pain. My understanding is that Siachen remains a lesion in TSP's backside because it reminds them of another humiliation at the hands of Indian army, and they want to remove that sore, and then deal with J&K where they believe they are on a winning wicket. Is my understanding correct? If not, what is it about Siachen that TSP is so obsessed about?

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 06 Dec 2013 22:22

MWM leader, three preachers among 10 shot dead

Two Moroccans among three members of the Tableeghi Jamaat were killed in an attack outside a mosque in North Nazimabad on Tuesday hours after a Shia scholar was gunned down along with his security guard in ambush on their car on University Road.

Police investigators believed the murders of prominent people from different schools of thought were not carried out on sectarian grounds but were part of an organised campaign by an unnamed ‘third force’.

Here we go...bring in the dancing zaid hamied.

Paul · Post by **Paul** » 06 Dec 2013 22:46

CRamS wrote:SSridhar boss, always need to turn to you, like Indian cricket team used to turn to Sachin paaJi , for finer points. Except for probably MMS types, the dominant thinking among India's strategic elite is that Siachen needs to be part of a comprehensive J&K settlement, most probably along the lines of LoC = IB. Thats why they recommend not dealing with Siachen in isolation as TSP demands. However, for TSP, Siachen is a perpetual anal pain. My understanding is that Siachen remains a lesion in TSP's backside because it reminds them of another humiliation at the hands of Indian army, and they want to remove that sore, and then deal with J&K where they believe they are on a winning wicket. Is my understanding correct? If not, what is it about Siachen that TSP is so obsessed about?

Pakis thinking they are winning in J&K again? on what grounds...... Is this thinking based on sound logic or is it wishful thinking like in 2001 just cuz' ABV invited Mush for breakfast to Agra....or is it MMS's lackadaisical performance that gives them that feel good sense.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 06 Dec 2013 22:56

Paul,

Its a combination of factors: 1. KM hatred of India/Hindus, 2) pigLeTs and their political cohorts, 3) general Indian apathy, 4) nukes, 5) "international opinion" read US mischief, 6) WKK and "secular" perverts in India. All of these factors favor TSP.

Of course, India has the biggest trump card, territory, means to defend it, legal (instrument of ascension), and above all, historical.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 06 Dec 2013 23:22

SSridhar wrote:anupmisra, how can you forget the most important event of 1965 ? The Djinns held green nets and captured all bombs falling down from the IAF bombers, bundled them up and threw them into the Arabian Sea. Blessed are those who saw the operation in bewilderment in front of their very eyes. AoA. I am getting goosebumps even as I write this. Verily, AoA.

Its not the whole story. Then A Kaffir Smart Bengali officer noticed the green nets in sky capturing Bombs. The he came up with the idea of attaching battery operated scissors and shears on the Bombs to cut through the net. This how few bombs escape and fell on LaHolepur Pakjab.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 07 Dec 2013 02:40

Pak DNA Mathc With 1/4 of Father

No, not a ‘lost friend’
Sham Sham Achmed

A chapter in his book entitled “Pakistan: The Lost Friend” gave an incisive account of how Washington’s total insensitivity to its close ally and partner’s legitimate security concerns vis-a-vis India had generated a sense of alienation among the people of Pakistan. While deploring Washington’s nearsighted policies, Middleton presciently called Pakistan the ‘pattern’ for Asian nations of the future, independent, tough and opportunistic. In his view, “Pakistan’s geographical situation and a dozen other considerations make her virtually important to peace in the whole of Asia and the world at large”. This old book on ‘America’s stakes in Asia’ may have ended up in trash, but Pakistan as a fiercely independent country has rarely disappeared for any length of time from America’s strategic radar screen. No, Pakistan is not a lost friend. For over 65 years now, it has loomed large in one form or another, either as a staunch ally, or a troublesome friend, or even a threat. Now, for the first time, it is all of these things. The war on terror may have provided the rationale for the ongoing unpalatable US ‘engagement’ with Pakistan, but it neither limits the relationship’s scope nor exhausts the challenges it faces.
It has, indeed, been a curious, if not enigmatic, relationship. It never had any conflict of interest, yet it also never developed a genuine mutuality of interests beyond self-serving expediencies, with each side always aiming at different goals and objectives to be derived from their relationship, which has been without a larger conceptual framework and a shared vision beyond each side’s narrowly based and vaguely defined issue-specific priorities. For Pakistan, the issues of security and survival in a turbulent and hostile regional environment were the overriding policy factors in its relations with Washington. US policy goals in Pakistan, on the other hand, have traditionally been rooted in its own regional and global interests. Unfortunately, besides a persistent trust deficit, in recent years, the two countries have had no control over the growing list of irritants some of which could have easily been avoided if both sides were guided by the concept of mutuality in their relationship. But let us be honest. The problem is not the relationship. The problem is its poor and short-sighted management on both sides. For Washington, it has remained an issue-specific, transactional relationship. They give us errands and we get paid like in World's oldest profession.
Since our independence, Washington has been pumping money like hell into our coffers as compensation, not reward, for the assorted ‘errands’ we have been running on its behalf, first in the Cold War, then in the Afghan-Soviet War, and lately as its non-Nato ally in the war on terror. Since 2001 alone, it gave us more than $15 billion in addition to the annual aid package of $1.5 billion under the Enhanced Partnership with Pakistan Act of 2009 for five years with an appropriate ‘performance-based’ military assistance. Other than some palatial farmhouses in Chak Shahzad and elsewhere, there is not a single university or hospital built with US assistance anywhere in Pakistan. ( Not One Since 47 , just changing of names of Institutions build by Hindus, Sikhs and Brit)) One has yet to see any visible people-specific projects in any part of this country that could be attributed to US assistance. Ironically, each ‘engagement’ period in this relationship coincided with a military or military-controlled government in Pakistan and a Republican administration in Washington. Most of the ‘estrangement’ phases of the US-Pakistan relationship saw a Democrat administration in Washington and a politically vulnerable elected government in Pakistan.
From being a major power in South Asia always equated with India, Pakistan today is bracketed with Afghanistan in terms of its outlook, role and relevance. We are seen both as the problem and the key to its solution. No wonder, we are also being treated both as a target and a partner while fighting a common enemy. It is time to correct this approach. The US-Pakistan relationship must not be all about any particular incident or an individual. It is an important equation and must be kept immune to isolated irritants. The objective must be not to weaken this relationship but to strengthen it by infusing in it greater political, economic and strategic content.In his November 2007 address at the New Hampshire Institute of Politics, Joe Biden had admitted that “beyond the current crisis lurks a far deeper problem in this relationship which is largely transactional and this transaction isn’t working for either party”. From the US perspective, according to him, Pakistan despite receiving billions of dollars never delivered on combating extremism. From Pakistan’s perspective, he said, America is an unreliable ally, which has only bolstered its corrupt rulers.

Peregrine · Post by **Peregrine** » 07 Dec 2013 03:23

Pakistan's "Booming" Economy :

1. Reserves dip : Govt struggles to win $500m oil financing

ISLAMABAD : With just $3 billion in hand that can finance imports for only three weeks, Pakistan has been struggling to secure a $500 million oil financing facility in an effort to keep cars running on roads, as reduced gas supplies for transport vehicles are likely to increase the demand for fuel imports.

2. Money laundering : London police arrest 2 MQM associates

LONDON: The Metropolitan Police have arrested two people from West London in relation to a money laundering case involving the Muttahida Quami Movement (MQM), Express News reported on Friday.

3. Budgetary support : Money supply rising to meet govt’s borrowing needs

Cheers

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 07 Dec 2013 09:02

vishvak wrote:That siachen itch of pakis makes no sense to anyone out of pakis.

Since pakis want friendly relations with India, shouldn't pakis withdraw paki troops from Balochistan?

Or withdraw northern areas including Khunjerab pass and hand it over to India.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 07 Dec 2013 15:22

Jhujar wrote:Pak DNA Mathc With 1/4 of Father
Sham Sham Achmed
. . . It never had any conflict of interest, yet it also never developed a genuine mutuality of interests beyond self-serving expediencies, with each side always aiming at different goals and objectives to be derived from their relationship, . . .

He is getting it, with a little more effort, he will understand. If somebody pushes [into] him a little harder, he will realize it quickly. That is the exact same relationship between a w***e and her client.

Shamshad Ahmed saheb, you have adorned high posts in GoP. You are erudite. Make me proud of my prediction about you. Fill up the asterisks above and voila, enlightenment will dawn on you. Mash'a Alla'h .

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 07 Dec 2013 17:28

From the land of perpetual bad news comes this gem which will certainly raise the dying hopes and falling aspirations of a people used to failures. Don't laugh (or snigger) but 'Slummabad will finally have a dinosaur park

Yes, you heard right. However, good things take time, as always in pakiland.

novel recreational facility to residents of Islamabad purchased 24 models of dinosaurs at cost of Rs39.93 Million in 2009

These models of dinosaurs were different in size. Unfortunately proper venue of their installation could not be located.

Why? Did they try looking in the PA HQ or the senate?

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 07 Dec 2013 18:16

An American hurting H&D of Pakisatan on Reddit

'Muslim Patrol' jailed for harassing couple holding hands and men drinking in a bid to enforce Sharia law in East London

Fine, I'll paraphrase what I've heard from the Syrians who I'm friends with told me. Basically they said, "Pakistanis who enter the ME are usually extremely violent, stupid, and they often immigrate in mass droves to places like the U.A.E. and hurt Arabs who are also looking for job opportunities in their own countries." TLDR: If you think Western Europe has to deal with annoying Muslims as immigrants, the Middle East literally deals with the worst of the worst.

Lilo · Post by **Lilo** » 07 Dec 2013 18:41

jamwal wrote:An American hurting H&D of Pakisatan on Reddit

'Muslim Patrol' jailed for harassing couple holding hands and men drinking in a bid to enforce Sharia law in East London

Fine, I'll paraphrase what I've heard from the Syrians who I'm friends with told me. Basically they said, "Pakistanis who enter the ME are usually extremely violent, stupid, and they often immigrate in mass droves to places like the U.A.E. and hurt Arabs who are also looking for job opportunities in their own countries." TLDR: If you think Western Europe has to deal with annoying Muslims as immigrants, the Middle East literally deals with the worst of the worst.

^
Suarly the descendants of four fathers must be welcome in each of their Fatherland's hain ji?
Unless each father now fears that they onlee passed on the worst of their genes into their Paki mongrel pups.

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 07 Dec 2013 20:25

So few icelands of peace are forming in fourfather lands too. Shouldn't fourfathers be singing peons for the beloved pakis and not differentiate between good Arab fourfather and bad paki

What happened to terror has no religion, or that mob patrol has no religion, etcetera on sharia-compliant peacelands of fourfathers. You don't say you can't take pakistaniyat out of a paki in peacelands of fourfathers.

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 07 Dec 2013 23:04

The retards arrested are African and Caucasians. But they are disciples of a Paki hate preacher Chaudhary.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 08 Dec 2013 17:27

CRamS wrote: Except for probably MMS types, the dominant thinking among India's strategic elite is that Siachen needs to be part of a comprehensive J&K settlement, most probably along the lines of LoC = IB. Thats why they recommend not dealing with Siachen in isolation as TSP demands. However, for TSP, Siachen is a perpetual anal pain. My understanding is that Siachen remains a lesion in TSP's backside because it reminds them of another humiliation at the hands of Indian army, and they want to remove that sore, and then deal with J&K where they believe they are on a winning wicket. Is my understanding correct? If not, what is it about Siachen that TSP is so obsessed about?

*Long Post*
CRS, You are absolutely correct about obsession [with 'parity with India'] and the Pakistani Army's desire to avenge. I am not going to say anything new that we all do not know already. I will draw the larger canvas and link it to Siachen. IMHO, it is very simple, as always everything is. Underlying all words and deeds by Pakistan is its obsession. What is its obsession ? 'Parity' with India.

What is Pakistan's 'parity obsession' with India ? Now, that question has evolved over the decades. Initially, in pre-Independence India though, Jinnah wanted himself to be treated as equal to Gandhi. He did not like a competitor emerging suddenly on the INC scene from a far away South Africa and literally pulling the rug from under his feet in the second decade of the previous century just as he was emerging as a shining star under the tutelage of Tilak. Sulking, he slowly withdrew from the scene and retired to London. Later events transpired to catapult him to the leadership of All India Muslim League and bring him back to India. He wanted to be treated ‘on par’ with Gandhi, even if not by the entire India, at least by his Muslim co-religionists. He did two things to level the playing field between himself and Gandhi, one, to call himself the ‘sole spokesman of the Muslims’ and two to relegate Gandhi as the ‘sole spokesman of only the Hindus’. Through the self-assigned roles for himself and his arch rival, even though both designations were so untrue, he was satisfied that he had achieved ‘parity’ with Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi.

Jinnah never let go thereafter of this obsession with ‘parity’ between himself and Gandhi which was later extended to between AIML and INC, Muslims and Hindus and finally Pakistan and India. He spent so much energy during the Indian Independence struggle on these ‘parity’ issues that he and his AIML colleagues never bothered to define the future for their Pakistan. This has led to the pitiable state of the nation that we see in Pakistan today.

The followers of Jinnah have simply carried the same ‘parity obsession’ forward. As new situations emerged, they tried to achieve new parities. Thus it was that alliances with other nations were formed, India-phobic foreign policy was devised etc. Thus it was that while Jinnah, Liaqat Ali Khan and ramrod-straight Hollywood hero Field Marshal Ayub Khan wooed the Americans by painting a picture of how Godless communists will be fiercely resisted by the Believer Pakistanis, Pakistan also ended up on lap of the Godless Communist Chinese itself. All these for what ? That obsession with India.

The cataclysmic events of mid-December 1971 turned Pakistan upside down, especially the Pakistani Army. While 1947-48 wars were rather a stalemate, they at least held on to some enemy land, a 1965 saw India coming menacingly to the gates of Lahore, but 1971 was a massive defeat. One of the worst in the annals of History of War, make no mistake. No Army can remain unmoved by the magnitude of such a defeat. More normal nation-states would have ordered a review of their policies, even if it were late by two decades, and come to a conclusion that there was no point in persisting with the ruinous obsession. Not the Islamic Republic of Pakistan. Instead, it moved the bar much higher. From India-centric Islam, it moved to the larger worldview of ummah. The context of Islam was switched ‘officially’ within Pakistan from an India-centred relatively milder version to a West-Asia centred extremist version. Already, there had been very high-levels of contact between Maududi, and his JI with the Egyptian Brotherhood and their leaders; but, that was a private affair. Z.A. Bhutto gave the official stamp of approval when he launched his nuclear weapons project with the bank-rolling by such rabid states as Libya and Saudi Arabia. The Afghan Jihad, the happenstance Presidency by Gen. Zia-ul-Haq and the Khomeini revolution in Iran further moved Pakistan’s Muslim context towards the worldwide Sunni Islamist extremist context. Thus, Pakistan became a confirmed theocratic state, a far cry from even the weak August 11, 1947 formulation of Jinnah. Since then it has been shamelessly seeking 'approval' from the West Asian states for its Islamist policies. That is where the 'parity obsession' has led Pakistan led to.

Again, why did Pakistan switch the context to West-Asian Islamism ? Obsession with India. After 1971, Pakistan was convinced that conventional 'parity' was never going to happen at all and went all out for nukes with the help of her West Asian fundamentalist ruler friends. The desire to acquire nuclear weapons by Pakistan was never to deter India, but to use them against us at a convenient point. Again, this move was considered necessary by Pakistan for its ambition to achieve 'parity' with India. Of course, until such time when it can physically lob a few nukes our way, Pakistan would use the nuclear threat to hoist terrorism on us and simultaneously deter us. Lowering threshold for use of nuclear weapons, employment of TNWs, quest for SSNs, borrowed spy satellites are all centred only against India for the parity project.

The 'parity obsession' has taken Pakistan to the depths of deprivation but, it feels it is a fair price to pay. From the threat of Khrushchev to 'obliterate Peshawar' to giving asylum to the internationally reviled Osama bin Laden in a perfidious manner with wars and skirmishes with India as well as genocides of its own people and many other such things thrown in between, the 'parity obsession' has seen Pakistan go haywire, but Pakistan is not giving up on parity.

The massive defeat in 1971 and the biggest surrender in annals of war history of 93000 soldiers surrendering have only sharpened the parity obsession. No parity has been achieved so far by Pakistan in this case. Like the Kargil of 1999, the Pakistani Army decided to spring a surprise on India by occupying Siachen in c. 1983 but India beat Pakistan to it. The on-going jihad in Afghanistan and the necessity of the Americans to humour Pakistan might have been deemed helpful for their Siachen project by the Pakistanis. Pakistan did not give up its dream of Siachen for decades thereafter even at enormous cost to its men. The rabid jihadi Maj. Gen. Zaheerul Islam Abbassi, who had been expelled from India as Pakistan's Military Attache and who later tried to topple Ms. Benazir Bhutto, sacrificed dozens of his men in a foolish and ill-conceived attempt to climb the Saltoro. Brig. Musharraf also met with a similar result in his attempts. There have been many failed attempts and the Pakistani Army knows that it has zero chance of ever dislodging the Indian Army. The event in 1971 and the very next major attempt against India at Siachen, both having ended in massive failures, would be rankling any Army, leave alone a Believer army which sees the Indian Army as a kafir army worthy of being destroyed in the Way of Allah. The Gyari incident last year was very major and that is when Pakistan gave up, IMO, all ambitions of taking on the Indian Army *militarily* on the Saltoro. But, Pakistan is determined to wrest Siachen from India through other means. The presence of the PLA in Baltistan allows them the freedom to imagine that somehow in collusion with them they would be able to take Siachen surreptitiously one day or the other once the Indian Army is withdrawn under the rubric of a deceptive 'Peace Park' or whatever. A sort of 'parity' would then be established, the Pakistani Army feels.

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 08 Dec 2013 18:21

Wonder why such posts don't come up in media. The parity/balance may get pakis to spit in the air, but from Indian standpoint:1) this parity/balance idea is completely arbitrary for Indian viewpoints on this are taken for granted/ignored 2) has any individuals agreed to such thereby giving facade of chaltaa he? 3) 'international opinon' and policies in Indian subcontinent by USA etc - again ignoring totally Indian viewpoints while making it look civilized and accepted behavior.

This arbitrary idea of parity/balance is no way beneficial to India, other than reducing Indian prowess and preparedness w.r.t. this arbitrary reference idea(?!?!-totally worthless and makes no sense). So this would be sold as blackmail tactic indirectly.

This arbitrary idea in Indian subcontinent or selling such idea outside paki is uncivilized to Indians and such ideas should be totally ignored. We got to increase our own prowess and not buy such arbitrary ideas at cost of reduce our own benefits and power under arbitrary ideas.

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 08 Dec 2013 19:33

SSridhar wrote:What is its obsession ? 'Parity' with India. What is Pakistan's 'parity obsession' with India ?

Sridhar,

This may not be the right place to discuss this "obsession", nay "extreme fixation", and please feel free to move this to another appropriate thread. But, you bring up certain points that are worth archiving. This paki fetish for things "Indian" and their single-minded drive to seek recognition by the larger world as "equal" inheritors on Indian/Hindu accomplishments speaks for itself. Mohammad was fixated on it as well, calling it's domination his last purpose. Anyhow, in today's context, this mania takes another turn. Indians (and by extension, Hindus) have built for themselves a cache of global goodwill, respect, honor, and awe. Surely, the converts want a piece that. After all, they are currently seen as logical extensions (or culmination) of global "goodwill" the civilized world has for their co-religionists in the war against terror.

In military terms, this parity is somewhat illusive. It is not the old "equal-equal" that the pakis hope to get. I doubt if they can afford this equal military status in the next hundred years, given the state of their economy and their being today. However, this clamor for parity is all about an "equivalence" of capabilities and might.

Therefore, for the pakis, a 1000-aircraft Indian air-force with fourth generation aircrafts begets a 500-aircraft paki airforce fourth generation aircrafts (I don't know, pick a number). Same for their navy and army. The recent periods in which their focus is diverted to the Afghan border and the situation in their own backyard, they have demanded parity. A game changer, if you will, which will resume their "parity". This demand for "drone technology" is one such game changer. Theother one is the demand for the same (or similar or equivalent) nuclear accord.

ABV tried to replace the age-old paki obsessions with the promise in LaWhore (I know, its wrong) "we have no interest in your lands". This did not go down too well with the real powers in pakiland. The generals would have nothing to live for if their political leaders had accepted this assurance. Anytime the political powers have seemingly accepted this assurance, there has been a coup.

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 08 Dec 2013 19:50

Pakis have spit venom on Hindus for more than 60 years now and Hinduism has been hated for centuries now. At the same time obsession to hijack Hindu traditions and civilization and make it look as history at the cost of Hindus is barbaric.

Indians need to think very well and seriously to reject this barbarism and paki circus of hijacking credit of peace & progress; and present them paki selves as more civilized (

) than Hindus at every opportunity and claim/propaganda.

akashganga · Post by **akashganga** » 08 Dec 2013 20:17

vishvak wrote:Pakis have spit venom on Hindus for more than 60 years now and Hinduism has been hated for centuries now. At the same time obsession to hijack Hindu traditions and civilization and make it look as history at the cost of Hindus is barbaric.

I have noticed that islamists from all over the indian subcontinent are trying hard to hijack the indic/hindu traditions and civilization as their own. That is a pity as their masters in arabia have long term goal of wiping out all traces of indic traditions and reprogram the population with arab/islamism. I have even noticed this among minority christians of the subcontinent. We indics/hindus should get inspiration from jews who rejected both christ (who was from a jewish family) /christianity, and islam and retained their ancient tradition and culture. Any religion based on a single individual and a single book cannot represent truth. In the end truth alone triumphs.

Peregrine · Post by **Peregrine** » 08 Dec 2013 20:54

Dar said IMF HAD AGREED TO ALL Pakistani Conditions!

‘Poor negotiation’ : Recent IMF loan deal will hurt us in the future, say experts
Cheers

Peregrine · Post by **Peregrine** » 08 Dec 2013 21:13

Pakistan, India should discuss Kashmir directly : US

WASHINGTON : The United States has ruled out any mediation on the Kashmir dispute, saying the issue needs to be discussed directly between India and Pakistan.

The US believes India and Pakistan ‘need to keep building a better relationship’ and ‘work together’ on issues like Kashmir, said US State Department spokesperson Marie Harf.

“We’ve been very clear that this is an issue we think needs to be discussed directly between Pakistan and India,” she said at a news briefing on Saturday.

The State Department also urged Islamabad and New Delhi to keep working for improvement in their bilateral relations.

“Well, we’ve always said that we believe they [Pakistan and India] need to keep building a better relationship, they need to work together on these issues, and certainly we hope they will do so,” Harf said when asked to assess the current state of Pakistan-India relations in the US perspective.

When asked about Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif’s supposed remarks that the Kashmir dispute could trigger a fourth war between India and Pakistan, the spokesperson replied: “I didn’t actually see those comments, so I don’t want to respond to comments I haven’t seen.”

Cheers

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 08 Dec 2013 21:38

Peregrine,

Can't expect DDM to show some brains, and a better question to have asked him are: What is US position on 26/11 where 6 Americans were killed and HafeezPig roams right under the nose of TSPA just like OBL was. In other words, frame the question in a US-centric way so he cannot come up with the usual crap about both India & TSP being its munnas and should make piss.

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 08 Dec 2013 23:33

So, this is what "normal" life in bakistan has come down to when the apologists in bakiland explain away the definition of the term "cracker-blast". I know, we too have wondered on this forum if there is a Sivakasi unit in that beknighted land that has gone rogue (or in baki speak - "rouge"). One correspondent at "Daan" took upon herself to explain the meaning of a "cracker", a term which the officials in the land use to describe low intensity blasts, and how to build one in your kitchen. Baki kids: don't try this at home without adult supervision.

Explosive expose: Cracking the ‘cracker’

This misleading term is used so often that one may start imagining there’s some rogue fireworks maker on a rampage across Karachi.

It is in fact something of an improvised ‘desi’ hand grenade, a cross, perhaps a hand grenade and a large fire cracker.

it is a sphere packed with aluminum powder

A cracker is an IED, but every IED is not a cracker.

Typical crackers... are made with tennis balls.

And, the good motormama goes on to give every red-blooded paki the blueprint to make a "cracker":

cut open a tennis ball, stuff it with aluminum powder and wrap it in tape. The rubber vessel makes for the container and provides friction so when the cracker is thrown somewhere it immediately explodes due to impact

300 grams of explosives

pipe bombs: The makers stuff explosives inside a piece of PVC pipe, seal the ends and then attach a fuse. Usually around a kilo of explosive material is used in them and that’s enough to damage the railway tracks

But, a word of caution, dear baki-lurks:

There’s also no real standardisation at work here

When the purpose is to cause serious damage, they fill it with shrapnel or ball-bearings which is quite dangerous even for those standing at a distance as these metal bits fly through the air, injuring all in the blast radius

IEDs are made by amateurs

After all, pakis are professionals. Unbelievable.

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 09 Dec 2013 00:20

It may be that India Pakistan dynamics are in fact only superficially secondary to Hindu Muslim history and differences.

The paradigm followed by Pakistan is the tribal affiliation exclusionary model. This is the very same as all primitive societies- from the Amazonian jungle tribes to present day Germany. It is a deliberate and calibrated protocol for state building. The problem for Pakistan is not that India chose the pluralist/inclusivity model for state building (note not nation building), but that India has so convincingly outclassed Pakistan in everything (cricket, the quality of jet fighters, an absurd metric of nationhood no doubt; higher education emigrant success etc) that pakistan's model is in danger of collapse unless another existential threat is found or manufactured.

Fortunately, Pakistan possess an endless supply of grievances that outrage the Sunni majority. Unless Pakistan discards its nation building approach it will remain mired in poverty, ignorance, religious violence, superstition. Deliciously, discarding the model will be the first step to dissolution of this criminal enterprise and the entrenched privileges of those who directly sponsor and benefit from a society built on hate.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 09 Dec 2013 01:03

anupmisra wrote:After all, pakis are professionals. Unbelievable.

They were already professional in the oldest profession and will do the same in IED field. PakIEDstan or Leader of IEDUmmah or land of IED Mahdi or new Paki dogma called IEDslaam?