Indo-UK News and Discussion - April 2013

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Philip
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Re: Indo-UK News and Discussion - April 2013

Post by Philip »

Tony Blair and long time bum-chum Rupert Murdoch,the "Digger" from Oz,have fallen out as the Digger is pissed off with Blair's friendship with ex-spouse Wendi Dung,oops!....Deng.BLiar,who benefited enormously from the Digger's media support during his reign as Britain's PM is now in the doghouse.Let's see if the Digger is now going to take BLiar to the sh*house by his media empire.

Relations between Tony Blair and Rupert Murdoch 'collapse' after claims of meetings with ex-wife Wendi Deng

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 60921.html
To a tabloid connoisseur the story had everything: celebrities, money, politics and more than a whiff of scandal.

It was, without doubt, the kind of tale that Rupert Murdoch, the famously hands-on proprietor of The Sun, would have wanted his newspaper to have had first. Apart from one small problem: the story was about him.

Today, what had been political gossip for some time, was splashed across the front page of The Mail on Sunday under the headline “Murdoch’s feud with Blair over Wendi”.

The paper reported that relations between Mr Murdoch and Tony Blair had “collapsed” because of Mr Blair’s close friendship with the media mogul’s ex-wife, Wendi Deng.

It claimed Mr Blair and Ms Deng had stayed overnight at Mr Murdoch’s mansion in California on two occasions in without his knowledge. And it added that Mr Blair and Ms Deng had “multiple encounters” of which Mr Murdoch was unaware in both London and New York.

While the paper stressed it was making “no suggestion” of any impropriety by the former prime minister or Ms Deng it nevertheless quoted a friend of Mr Murdoch saying “Rupert Murdoch will have nothing more to do with Tony Blair. Not ever.”

If so, it would be a remarkable end to a remarkable friendship which, over the years, has had very real impact on the political process in the UK. And oddly one that also started with sexual innuendo. When Mr Blair shrugged off criticism from his own party and travelled halfway around the world to woo Murdoch at a News Corporation summit in Australia in July 1995 the magnate introduced Mr Blair to his staff with the words: “If the British press is to be believed, today is all part of a Blair-Murdoch flirtation.”

He then added: “If that flirtation is ever consummated, I suspect we will end up making love like two porcupines – very carefully.”

Over the years, much to the unease of many of the left, they were more passionate than that. The Sun backed Labour in every election campaign Mr Blair fought – and while not always uncritical – his papers were none the less supportive of the New Labour project. Mr Blair claimed, to some incredulity, when he gave evidence to the Leveson Inquiry that when he was Prime Minister the relationship was always “professional” rather than a personal friendship. “It was a relationship about power,” he said. “I find these relationships are not personal; they are working [relationships], to me.” But he went on to add: “After I left office I got to know him. Now it’s different. It’s not the same.” He also admitted he had become godfather to Murdoch and Deng’s daughter Grace in 2010.

Mr Blair’s friends told The Mail on Sunday that the relationship between him and Ms Deng was “entirely innocent and above board”. Mr Blair’s office has also categorically denied an affair. A spokesman for Mr Murdoch declined to comment, as did Ms Deng’s spokesman.
JE Menon
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Re: Indo-UK News and Discussion - April 2013

Post by JE Menon »

Looks like Blair effed them both.
Haresh
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Re: Indo-UK News and Discussion - April 2013

Post by Haresh »

JE Menon wrote:Looks like Blair effed them both
Why not? he effed the entire country and everyone here!!!!! :D
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Re: Indo-UK News and Discussion - April 2013

Post by Neela »

Dont fogget he helped F Iraq too.
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Re: Indo-UK News and Discussion - April 2013

Post by Shanmukh »

This is probably old news for those in the know, but I just saw this bit on ToI.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/worl ... 538045.cms.

Indian revolutionary held slaves (all for the good cause of the revolution, of course). Does anyone have more info on this?
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Re: Indo-UK News and Discussion - April 2013

Post by Lalmohan »

dude has been running a hippy commune and leading the revolution for some time
his kick (like many of his ilk) is to build a fanbase of women and have absolute power over them
has been in trouble with the law over the years, but no one spotted what they were up to
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Re: Indo-UK News and Discussion - April 2013

Post by member_19686 »

Revealed: How British Empire’s dirty secrets went up in smoke in the colonies

CAHAL MILMO Friday 29 November 2013

In April 1957, five unmarked lorries left the British High Commission in Kuala Lumpur and drove to a Royal Navy base in Singapore with their cargo of files detailing the secrets of Britain’s rule in Malaya. Their destination was, in the words of one official, a “splendid incinerator”.

This “discreet” mission in the closing days of British rule over what became Malaysia was one of hundreds of similar operations. As the sun finally set on the Empire, diplomats scurried to repatriate or destroy hundreds of thousands “dirty” documents containing evidence that London had decided should never see the light of day. Some 50 years later, the sheer scale of the operation to hide the secrets of British rule overseas – including details of atrocities committed during the Mau Mau rebellion in Kenya – is revealed in documents released today by the National Archives in Kew, west London.

The so-called “migrated archive” details the extraordinary lengths to which the Colonial Office went to withhold information from its former subjects in at least 23 countries and territories in the 1950s and 1960s.

Among the documents is a memo from London that required all secret documents held abroad to be vetted by a Special Branch or MI5 liaison officer to ensure that any papers which might “embarrass” Britain or show “racial prejudice or religious bias” were destroyed or sent home.


The ramifications of the operation to conceal the resulting archive of 8,800 files – a closely guarded Whitehall secret until the Government recently lost high-profile court cases – are still being felt in compensation claims for victims of atrocities committed under British rule from Kenya to Malaya.

Relatives of 24 Malayan rubber plantation workers allegedly murdered by British soldiers in the Malayan village of Batang Kali in 1948 returned to the Court of Appeal this week to try to overturn a ruling that the British government cannot be held responsible for the massacre.

Most of the records of the original investigation into the killings were destroyed, most likely during the eight-month period that included the sending of the lorries to Singapore.

A memo recording the destruction operation in 1957 notes that the MI5 liaison officer overseeing the operation believed that as a result “the risk of compromise and embarrassment [to Britain] is slight”.

John Halford, of the law firm Bindmans, which is representing the Batang Kali relatives and victims, told The Independent:

“British officials through the years have been desperate to consign the Batang Kali atrocity to history, despite those who were there as children still being very much alive and driven to seek justice.”

Known in several former colonies as “Operation Legacy”, Whitehall set out a list of the types of material it wanted removed, including anything which “might embarrass members of the police, military forces, public servants (such as police agents or informers)”. Once “dirty” documents had been removed the remaining “clean” material was passed to a new strata of administrators overseeing independence processes who were deliberately not told about the sifting process.

It also ordered the destruction or removal of “all papers which are likely to be interpreted, either reasonably or by malice, as indicating racial prejudice or bias”.

Under the rules, all material marked “Top Secret” or “Secret” was either sent back to Britain via the RAF or the navy, or destroyed either by burning or “placed in well-weighted crates and sunk in deep and current free water at the maximum practicable distance from shore”.

Among the documents is a note that officials should carefully control any bonfires of secrets and avoid a situation similar to Indian in 1947 when the local press was filled with reports about the “pall of smoke” which fell over Delhi at the end of the Raj as British officials burnt their papers.

The files show that in the months before Kenya gained independence in December 1963, some 307 boxes of material were sent back to Britain.

The evidence remained hidden for five decades until court cases brought on behalf of victims of brutality forced its disclosure last year and a subsequent £20m pay out and apology from the Foreign Secretary, William Hague, this summer.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/ho ... 71217.html
Note the comments of the Brits on the article.

Remember certain Indian coolies claim that only the Germans & Japanese were very bad & evil fellows.
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Re: Indo-UK News and Discussion - April 2013

Post by Shanmukh »

Surasena wrote: Note the comments of the Brits on the article.

Remember certain Indian coolies claim that only the Germans & Japanese were very bad & evil fellows.
Shrug - it is a trend I have noticed amongst the British these days. All the old racists and imperialists are all slowly coming out of their closets. I suppose that the collapse of the British economy makes it nice to be nostalgic about kicking the brown/black people, and lording it over the world. The bottomline is that they still have not got over the fact that they are not a world beating power anymore. There is a desperate desire to pretend that Britain still matters.

The other line taken by the imperialists is `we were good imperialists, compared to the evil imperialists of Germany/France/Japan. The truth is that the British were the masters of all the techniques used by the others. There is almost nothing that the others did that the British did not do, often on a greater scale. That is why Hitler's plan for Russia was based on the British empire in India. But it is all conveniently forgotten.
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Re: Indo-UK News and Discussion - April 2013

Post by Vipul »

Britain burnt 'embarrassing' documents of colonial crimes.

LONDON: British officials burned and dumped documents from colonies in the final years of the empire in a systematic effort to hide their "dirty" secrets, according to files declassified on Friday.

Among the newly released files was a note warning authorities to be careful to avoid a situation similar to India in 1947, when the local press was filled with reports about the "pall of smoke" over Delhi at the very end of the British Raj as officials burnt documents before leaving.

Under " Operation Legacy", officials in Kenya, Uganda, Malaysia, Tanzania, Jamaica and other former British colonial territories were briefed on how to dispose of documents that "might embarrass Her Majesty's government".

The 50-year-old documents that were finally transferred from the UK Foreign Office to the National Archive in a so-called "migrated archive" show the extraordinary lengths to which the Colonial Office went to withhold information from its former subjects in at least 23 countries and territories in the 1950s and 1960s.

A Colonial Office telegram of 3 May 1961 stated the general guidance for keeping papers out of the hands of newly elected independent governments.

Items should be disposed of if they "might embarrass members of the police, military forces, public servants or others eg police informers; might compromise sources of intelligence" — or might be used "unethically" by incoming ministers.

Among the documents was a memo from London that required all secret documents held abroad to be vetted by a special branch or MI5 liaison officer to ensure that any papers which show "racial prejudice or religious bias" were destroyed or sent home.

The documents also include "destruction certificates" sent to London by colonial officials as proof that they were performing their duties, and letters and memoranda that showed that some were struggling to complete their huge task before colonies gained independence.

Officials in more than one colony warned London that they feared they would be "celebrating Independence Day with smoke".

According to analysts, an elaborate and at times confusing classification system was introduced to protect papers that were to be destroyed or shipped to the UK.

Officials were often granted or refused security clearance on the grounds of ethnicity. Documents marked 'Guard', for instance, could be disclosed to non-British officials as long as if they were from the Old Commonwealth - Australia, New Zealand, South Africa or Canada.

Those classified as 'Watch' and stamped with a red letter W, were to be removed from the country or destroyed. The marking 'DG' was said to be an abbreviation of deputy governor, but in fact was a protective code word to indicate that papers so marked were for sight by "British officers of European descent only".

The British government agreed earlier this year to pay USD 23 million in compensation to more than 5,200 elderly Kenyans who were tortured and abused during the 1950s Mau Mau uprising against colonial rule.

The files released on Friday are the final batch of a collection whose existence was only revealed by the Foreign Office in January 2011 as part of the Kenyan action.
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Re: Indo-UK News and Discussion - April 2013

Post by vishvak »

Wasn't UK at forefront of industrialization with tech like printing press etc. This destruction of documents is another part only of civilizing heathens, pagaans, barbarians, etcetera etcetera in general with aspects like

"pall of smoke" .. at the very end of the British Raj as officials burnt documents

" Operation Legacy :rotfl: ", officials in Kenya, Uganda, Malaysia, Tanzania, Jamaica and other former British colonial territories were briefed on how to dispose of documents that "might embarrass Her Majesty's government".

"migrated archive" show the extraordinary lengths .. to withhold information

general guidance for keeping papers out of the hands of newly elected independent governments

disposed of if they "might embarrass ..."

vetted by a special branch or MI5 liaison officer to ensure that any papers which show "racial prejudice or religious bias" were destroyed or sent home.

"destruction certificates" :rotfl:

Officials in more than one colony warned London that they feared they would be "celebrating Independence Day with smoke". :rotfl:

Guard', for instance, could be disclosed to non-British officials as long as if they were from the Old Commonwealth - Australia, New Zealand, South Africa or Canada. :)

marked were for sight by "British officers of European descent only". :rotfl:

=========
Doesn't the last one mean that officers of European descent wouldn't mind considering issues that may be totally unacceptable to normal officers otherwise?
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Re: Indo-UK News and Discussion - April 2013

Post by Lilo »

^^ Which precisely implies that any historical narrative (previously created or currently being created) by white sahibs like Darrallympell , Nial Ferguson echoed by the resident brown sahibs(many parade as nehruvian Marxists) like Guha,romila thapar etc all of whose "research" ultimately bases itself on British India records are worth no more than toilet paper is it ?

Further the burden of proof is on the Briturds to prove them using non briturd sources onlee when ever nativist historians steeped in the philosophical outlook of their own lands challenge them. In case they can't do that their narrative has no legitimacy left whatsoever and has to be replaced by the new one.

When will MSM start highlight ing this fact and when will our ncert books see the benefit of these new self acknowledged "revelations" of the racial and religious colour percolating their colonial deeds by the briturds hain ji?
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Re: Indo-UK News and Discussion - April 2013

Post by svinayak »

Lilo wrote:
When will MSM start highlight ing this fact and when will our ncert books see the benefit of these new self acknowledged "revelations" of the racial and religious colour percolating their colonial deeds by the briturds hain ji?
Indian MSM is a joint project with the colonialists.
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Re: Indo-UK News and Discussion - April 2013

Post by eklavya »

Acharya wrote:
Lilo wrote:
When will MSM start highlight ing this fact and when will our ncert books see the benefit of these new self acknowledged "revelations" of the racial and religious colour percolating their colonial deeds by the briturds hain ji?
Indian MSM is a joint project with the colonialists.
The project managers must be asleep or incompetent, or double-agents, or double-bluffers, or masters of disguise, because the story posted by Vipul above is from the The Times of India. :)
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Re: Indo-UK News and Discussion - April 2013

Post by KrishnaK »

What's MSM ?
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Re: Indo-UK News and Discussion - April 2013

Post by eklavya »

Main Stream Media
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Re: Indo-UK News and Discussion - April 2013

Post by brihaspati »

vishvak wrote:Wasn't UK at forefront of industrialization with tech like printing press etc. This destruction of documents is another part only of civilizing heathens, pagaans, barbarians, etcetera etcetera in general with aspects like
[....]
Guard', for instance, could be disclosed to non-British officials as long as if they were from the Old Commonwealth - Australia, New Zealand, South Africa or Canada. :)

marked were for sight by "British officers of European descent only". :rotfl:

=========
Doesn't the last one mean that officers of European descent wouldn't mind considering issues that may be totally unacceptable to normal officers otherwise?
Alternatively it might simply mean that non-European descent is not civilizationally matured enough to handle such civilizationally necessary stuff. Also Brit functionaries always operated within the constraints of the law as per their faithful supporters. So it is difficult to understand what would be so embarrassing that was so perfectly legal as to colonial operational "facts"! Why would they have to hide their legal actions?

As per the judicial illumination of the Arushi case - claim of destruction of evidence - is sufficient proof of guilt. So is that logic applicable to the Brits?
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Re: Indo-UK News and Discussion - April 2013

Post by Philip »

One must understand that the British worked on two fronts.The first,very public one was meant for the natives,hoi polloi and nation in general.Stiff upper lip,play the game with a "straight bat",reputation of British justice and transgressions of this rule generally found the perpetrator,including British colonial officers being hauled over the coals.However there was a deeply concealed secret establishment cadre that was tasked with the job of achieving results and the "means justifying the ends".They most often operated without the knowledge of the general cadre of civil servants,"the heaven born",barring those of the highest rank and favour.In N.Ireland we've just had the sensational exposes that secret British army death squads eliminated innocent unarmed Irish republicans who were merely suspected of being IRA members or sympathisers.

Some famous cases involving the shadowy establishment include the alleged assassination of Princess Diana,allegedly by a secret SAS hit squad,as it would've been intolerable for Diana to merry Dodi Fayed and have children by him,and for the future king of England to have Muslim step brothers and sisters! Acclaimed author Patricia Cornwell is now to reveal in her latest book new evidence that Jack the Ripper was connected to the royals.Dr.Gull,the queen's physician and Walter Sickert the famous painter are the prime conspirators who allegedly bumped off the Whitechapel ladies of the night (all close friends) who knew the details of the secret wedding between the Duke of Clarence (Victoria's grandson) and a Catholic shop girl who worked below Sickert's studio,who even had the Duke's child.They were supposedly trying to extort money for their silence and were thus silenced forever.One sensational allegation is that the duke did not die an early death to illness,but was so unfit for royal duties that his death was faked and he was secretly packed off to the home of a loyal Scottish noblerman (Bowes-Lyon family) to live out his days as an eccentric recluse of a relative.The nobleman was promised in return that one of his daughters would marry a prince,which did happen,and she became queen when Edward abdicated and his brother became king.She was better known as the "Queen Mother" who lived to a ripe old age and had an enormous influence over the royal family.

Wherever the British were colonial rulers,evidence is now emerging of the enormous human rights crimes that were committed in those days.What our present day rulers have to remember is that the same mentality exists with the same secret establishment beneath the bonhomie that often exists on the surface.
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Re: Indo-UK News and Discussion - April 2013

Post by kish »

Briton continue to suffer from its own creation, pakisatan that is!!!

Karma is a b!tch, it has come back to haunt racist brits. A white girl has been 'used' by 2 pakis, one of them murdered her later.

Britain's first white honour killing: Teenager brutally murdered by her Muslim lover after exposing their relationship to his family
Laura Wilson was just 17-years-old when she was stabbed to death next to a canal in Rotherham, South Yorkshire, in 2010.

This wasn't a mugging gone wrong, or a case of being in the wrong place at the wrong time. In fact, the mother-of-one was the victim of Britain's first white honour killing. Her death was premeditated murder, plotted and committed by the boyfriend she was madly in love with.

Laura's crime was to bring dishonour on her Muslim lover Ashtiaq Ashgar, 21, who is now serving a life sentence for the brutal murder. In 2008, the couple began an intense relationship at school when Laura was just 15, and Ashtiaq, 16. Her sister, Sarah, reveals on tonight's episode of Britain's Darkest Taboos on Crime & Investigation Network: 'She loved him. She worshipped the ground he walked on, she really did. She would have done anything for him.' Ashtiaq came from a traditional Muslim family who were planning an arranged marriage for their son with a girl from Pakistan. They would have been horrified to learn he was dating a white girl so he made Laura keep their relationship a secret.

Unbeknown to his family, he lived a double life where he drank, smoked cannabis, carried weapons and had numerous relationship with women, including Laura.When Laura found out that he has been seeing other girls, they broke up and she slept with this married friend, 22-year-old Ishaq 'Zac' Hussein, to make him jealous. Only 16, she fell pregnant as a result of the fling and had a daughter, Alicia. Zac refused to acknowledge he was the father. After Alicia is born, Laura and Ashtiaq rekindled their relationship but he insisted it must continue to be a secret. But while Laura was very much in love, her mother, Maggie, believes Ashtiaq was just using Laura for sex and treated her badly.

She said: 'I heard a phone conversation between Laura and Ashtiaq, Laura telling him how much he loved him and he was just so nasty. You could hear Laura crying in the background. He was saying just how much he hated her and that he'd got another girl, and he wasn't interested in her and she's shouting back "I love ya, I love ya…". He used Laura I think at the end.'

Laura soon became sick of being Ashtiaq secret and on October 6, 2010, fuelled by alcohol, she and her sister made the fatal mistake of revealing all to his family. They knocked on his mother's door and told her what was going on. Sarah recalls: 'Laura told her that she wanted to marry him, but his mother got aggressive and hit her with a shoe, calling her "a dirty white b****".'(Ijjlam is peaceful onlee)

The whole time Ashtiaq stood behind his mother 'acting sheepish'. When sentenced, Ashgar 'showed no remorse', he was just upset at the amount of jail time he received. The public episode would have been deeply shameful and embarrassing to him. On a roll, Laura and Sarah also visited Zac's family to reveal how he is the father of her baby. Maggie recalls: 'She said "I am sick of her being a secret" as she had been told not to mention about Alicia to any of the family. So she told them but they just didn’t want to know.'

Maggie added that Laura's relations with Ashtiaq and Zac had 'fetched shame on their family… she had to be stopped.' In the days following Sarah and Laura turning up at their houses, an angry Ashtiaq sent Zac a text message saying: 'I'm gonna send that b***** to Hell.' He also said he wanted to make 'beans on toast' of her, which is a phrase that means to spill blood. He asked Laura to meet him at the canal one evening and it's there that he murdered her. When Laura did not return home that evening, Maggie said she 'just knew' something terrible had happened.

Meanwhile, Ashtiaq was trying to cover his tracks by texting Laura's friend asking if she had 'seen' her. Two days later, Laura's body was found in the canal. She had more than 40 stab wounds, most of those to the head, and some were defence wounds. Maggie had to go identify her daughter. SHe said: 'I went over and kissed her and I put my arms around her and I just sobbed.'
Sarah was overwhelmed with guilt. She said: 'If it was going to be anyone it should have been me. It was my choice to go and knock on Ashtiaq's door, it was my choice to go and knock on Zac's door. She had everything to live for.' Police charged Ashtiaq and Zac with murder - describing the case as Britain's first white honour based killing. Both men pleaded not guilty.

On May 2011 at Ashtiaq's trial, the court heard how after stabbing Laura, he threw her into the canal but she kept fighting for her life. A pathologist report found that the stab wounds to the head were actually done to keep her under the water. On June 1 Ashtiaq changed his plea to guilty in the hope of a reduced sentence, as the evidence was stacking up against him. On December 21 the judge sentenced 18-year-old Ashtiaq to 17-and-a-half years imprisonment for Laura's murder. 'He showed no remorse, just upset at the amount of time he got in jail,' says Maggie. Meanwhile, following a retrial Zac was acquitted of murder. Ashtiaq is currently serving a life sentence and will be eligible for parole in 2029 when he's 34-years-old.

Sarah said she believed his punishment was not enough, adding: 'He's going to be out in 2029… he can still get out and get married and have kids and have a good life. My sister can't.' Maggie and Sarah are now raising Laura's daughter, Alicia, and this keeps them going. Maggie said: 'I need to keep strong for Alicia. I have got to make sure she has a good upbringing, good schooling. Keep her safe.'
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Re: Indo-UK News and Discussion - April 2013

Post by Philip »

If Scotland leaves, will we be left with FUK?
Charles Moore 7 December 2013 18:09

In Whitehall, there is a phrase for the entity which would be left if Scotland were to vote Yes to independence next year. The acronym is rUK, which stands for ‘the rest of the United Kingdom’.

This device of referring to a country’s altered state in its name has a precedent. After Macedonia broke away from Yugoslavia in 1991, it could only prevent Greece from blocking its UN entry by being admitted as the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia (FYROM).

Obviously, it would be embarrassing for the Former UK (FUK) to highlight its initials, but the nomenclature is a real problem. The reduced entity could not accurately be called Great Britain, and ‘The United Kingdom of England, Wales and Northern Ireland’ is also inaccurate (since there is no Welsh or Northern Irish kingdom united with that of England). We are getting into a pickle.

Gove This is an extract from Charles Moore’s Spectator’s Notes in the latest issue of the Spectator.

Click here to read for free with a trial of The Spectator app for iPad and iPhone. You can also subscribe with a free trial on the Kindle Fire.
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Re: Indo-UK News and Discussion - April 2013

Post by Rahul M »

if you want to see how post-imperium angst looks like, try these (from a brit mil forum)

http://forum.keypublishing.com/showthre ... fece-Force
http://forum.keypublishing.com/showthre ... dependence
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Re: Indo-UK News and Discussion - April 2013

Post by vishvak »

It is still not decided anything about nukes stored in Scotland, with shipbuilding yards nearby. Part of strategic depth of UK. Believe it or not only.
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Re: Indo-UK News and Discussion - April 2013

Post by vish_mulay »

Some links about British minority ethnic students out performing white students. Churchill must to rolling in his grave!

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-de ... e15792740/
Let’s face it: Britain has an ethnic problem. Its patchwork of peoples, once the envy of the world, has become frayed, its harmony devolving into anger and xenophobia. And, we should be honest, the problem is rooted in one ethnic group – one large but troubled people who are failing to integrate into modern postindustrial society.
http://www.economist.com/blogs/graphicd ... ly-chart-8
Image

http://capitalismmagazine.com/2013/12/l ... ks-common/
These white students in England come from the same race that produced Shakespeare and the great scientist Sir Isaac Newton, among other world class intellects over the centuries. But today many young whites in England are barely literate, and have trouble with simple arithmetic. Nor are these white students the victims of racial discrimination, much less the descendants of slaves.
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Re: Indo-UK News and Discussion - April 2013

Post by vishvak »

However racist the chart appears, isn't it an issue that black African (ie African) or black Caribbean students aren't improving post 2010-2011. What could it be that caused decrease in performance- should be matter of concern for all.
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Re: Indo-UK News and Discussion - April 2013

Post by Lalmohan »

the dip in black african is minor - they are very focused as a community on their kids education, although the recently arrived somalis will have skewed the data

the carribean population is the most concerning, partly that is due to social deprivation and a culture of being tough guys and gangstas that gets in the way, applies equally to mixed white-carribean

lately the greens have been pushing their kids through school much more earnestly, though i think the effects may be regional - not sure that yorkshiristan is doing so well
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Re: Indo-UK News and Discussion - April 2013

Post by nawabs »

Kuldip Singh Brar’s attackers sentenced by British court

http://www.livemint.com/Politics/rEA6Q4 ... y-Bri.html
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Re: Indo-UK News and Discussion - April 2013

Post by Haresh »

Can anyone offer me some advice.

I wish to apply for a PIO card.

My father was born in India (Punjab) and held Indian citizenship.
He became a British citizen and renounced his Indian passport.

My mother is still an Indian citizen.

After the death of my father there was a huge family rift and I now have no contact with my mother. :(

I have no documents re: my father.

How do I prove my father once held Indian citizenship??
Can I get some sort of affadavit from a temple in the UK?
Cosmo_R
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Re: Indo-UK News and Discussion - April 2013

Post by Cosmo_R »

@Haresh ^^^

The logical starting point is this:

My father was born in India (Punjab) and held Indian citizenship.
He became a British citizen and renounced his Indian passport.

The UK naturalization service will have records that prove your father's previous citizenship. I am sure you can obtain these documents. The documents you get probably will also reference your mother. Once you get them, have them notarized and go through the PIO process which should be along the lines below:

The standard requirements (US citizens in this case) are:

Those eligible to apply for a PIO card:
Any persons of Indian origin who holds a passport of any other country (with certain exceptions) can apply for a PIO card if they:

Have held an Indian passport at any time, or
Have parents, grandparents or great grandparents who were born and permanently reside in India as defined in the Government of India Act, 1935, or any other territory that became part of India thereafter, or
Are the spouse of a citizen of India or a person of Indian origin as defined by the criteria listed above.
Non US passport holders who hold a temporary visa such as B1/B2 are not eligible.

You may be ineligible to apply for a PIO card if you, your spouse, parents, grandparents or great grandparents have ever held citizenship of Afghanistan, Bangladesh, Bhutan, China, Iran, Nepal, Pakistan or Sri Lanka."

-----------------------------

Good luck
Haresh
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Re: Indo-UK News and Discussion - April 2013

Post by Haresh »

Many Thanks Cosmo,

I will follow that up.

Incidently, what is the difference between a PIO card and a OCI card?
Does one offer an advantage over the other?

Thanks for your help :)
Cosmo_R
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Re: Indo-UK News and Discussion - April 2013

Post by Cosmo_R »

OCI = Overseas Citizen of India. PIO = Person of Indian Origin who has non Indian Citizenship.

You are a UK citizen so the PIO card is the one you want.
Haresh
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Re: Indo-UK News and Discussion - April 2013

Post by Haresh »

Cosmo,

Thanks for clearing that up.

I have just made some enquiries here, the organisation I contacted was the Indian Workers Association.

What they have advised is that documents from the UK authorities would not be acceptable.
I either need a copy of my fathers birth certificate or proof of "Nativity". I don't know what form this would take.

Would we have to go to my fathers village in Punjab? who would we contact there?
My father died five years ago at about the age of 75 years. Who would have those documents?
Prem
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Re: Indo-UK News and Discussion - April 2013

Post by Prem »

Haresh wrote:Cosmo,

Thanks for clearing that up.IWould we have to go to my fathers village in Punjab? who would we contact there?My father died five years ago at about the age of 75 years. Who would have those documents?
Talk to the Sarpanch of the Pind to get all the doucments from Tehsil/ Disrtict. Schools also keep old records.
Cosmo_R
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Re: Indo-UK News and Discussion - April 2013

Post by Cosmo_R »

@Haresh ^^^: I think Jhujar's suggestion is probably the best course.

I must confess I am surprised about the UK documents. I would guess somewhere in there is a photocopy of your Father's Indian passport.

Added later. The documents from the UK authorities may not be acceptable evidence of your father's Indian citizenship. However, they will contain enough data to allow you to go to the Indian authorities for the originals. For example, if you get a passport photocopy, it will allow you to reference the number, date, place of issue etc to present to Indian authorities who can then also probably give a copy his birth certificate etc which you can then trace to place of issue or whatever.

I have learned however, nothing works in practice with GoI and it's multi-armed entities. So you mileage may vary.
Last edited by Cosmo_R on 12 Dec 2013 00:42, edited 1 time in total.
chaanakya
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Re: Indo-UK News and Discussion - April 2013

Post by chaanakya »

Haresh wrote:Can anyone offer me some advice.

I wish to apply for a PIO card.

My father was born in India (Punjab) and held Indian citizenship.
He became a British citizen and renounced his Indian passport.

My mother is still an Indian citizen.

After the death of my father there was a huge family rift and I now have no contact with my mother. :(

I have no documents re: my father.

How do I prove my father once held Indian citizenship??
Can I get some sort of affadavit from a temple in the UK?

Write to District Magistrate giving details of your father and address asking for residence or birth certificate or even death certificate. Long way but you will get reply. Perhaps you can ask him online through district website. Better still get hold of phone number and call him before writing.
JE Menon
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Re: Indo-UK News and Discussion - April 2013

Post by JE Menon »

^^ almost certainly...

You can also probably get OCI if you apply, and it gives you all rights except to vote and own agricultural land....
Cosmo_R
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Re: Indo-UK News and Discussion - April 2013

Post by Cosmo_R »

JE Menon wrote:^^ almost certainly...

You can also probably get OCI if you apply, and it gives you all rights except to vote and own agricultural land....
He would have to become a citizen of India to get an Overseas Citizen of India card.
JwalaMukhi
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Re: Indo-UK News and Discussion - April 2013

Post by JwalaMukhi »

In short OCI is like permanent life long visa with very little restraint (life long permanent resident). PIO is shorter term and must be renewed every so often with greater restrictions. PIO also means staying beyond 6 months at every entry into the country require police registration and other assorted babucracy dealings.

http://www.visa.blsindia-usa.com/newOciAdult.php

Basic Information for New OCI Card Adult

OCI and Renunciation can be Applied together!

Please select this service if you would like to apply for an OCI card as an adult and you do not hold a PIO card.

A New OCI card for an applicant who DOES NOT hold a PIO card is given to a non-Indian national who:

Was eligible to become a citizen of India on January 26, 1950 or later, or

Was a citizen of India on, or at any time after, January 26, 1950, or

Belonged to a territory that became part of India after August 15, 1947, or

Is a child or grandchild of a person who meets any of the criteria listed above.

Non US passport holders who hold a temporary visa such as B1/B2 are not eligible.

Any one who is or has ever been a citizen of Pakistan or Bangladesh is not eligible for OCI status.

Your OCI application will not be processed without all items listed below. If all items are not provided, your application will be returned to you in approximately 10 business days, and the service fee of $4.70 will apply along with applicable shipping and handling costs. Documents should be provided in the same order as they appear on this checklist.
Neshant
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Re: Indo-UK News and Discussion - April 2013

Post by Neshant »

Cosmo_R wrote: He would have to become a citizen of India to get an Overseas Citizen of India card.
No he would not.

In fact, you have to surrender your Indian Citizenship to get OCI.

You get a piece of paper from the Indian Consulate saying that you have given up your Indian citizenship when you surrender your Indian passport to them.

Then you become eligible for OCI.

When you get your OCI, it looks like a little passport. But it is not. Its just a travel document for visa-free entry into India and the right to work there. You have to present it to the customs official along with a valid OCI stamp in your foreign passport to enter India. You cannot enter India on your OCI little "passport" alone as it is NOT a passport.
Cosmo_R
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Re: Indo-UK News and Discussion - April 2013

Post by Cosmo_R »

Neshant wrote:
No he would not.

In fact, you have to surrender your Indian Citizenship to get OCI.

You get a piece of paper from the Indian Consulate saying that you have given up your Indian citizenship when you surrender your Indian passport to them.

Then you become eligible for OCI.

When you get your OCI, it looks like a little passport. But it is not. Its just a travel document for visa-free entry into India and the right to work there. You have to present it to the customs official along with a valid OCI stamp in your foreign passport to enter India. You cannot enter India on your OCI little "passport" alone as it is NOT a passport.
You are correct. The confusion comes from the grant of a 'citizenship' that does not a make you a citizen.

http://www.immihelp.com/nri/overseascitizenshipindia/

The ambiguity stems from the use of the word 'citizen' alternating with 'citizenship' in OCI.
Karan M
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Re: Indo-UK News and Discussion - April 2013

Post by Karan M »

Rahul M wrote:if you want to see how post-imperium angst looks like, try these (from a brit mil forum)

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http://forum.keypublishing.com/showthre ... dependence
so when are wales and islamic republic of bradford seceding. the UK should make sure HR of minorities are respected because after all UK is a nuclear armed nation and world community would not want a flashpoint to develop. :wink:
member_19686
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Re: Indo-UK News and Discussion - April 2013

Post by member_19686 »

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