Statewide and National runup to 2014 General elections

Chinmayanand · Post by **Chinmayanand** » 10 Dec 2013 14:46

Here is what should happen in Delhi and expose Hazrat Kejariwal.
Congress should give its letter of unconditional support to AAP to the Lt. Governor and ask him to call the AAP to form the govt. When the voting happens in House, Congress can vote for Hazrat Kejriwal and prove his majority .I think Congress can force AAP to form the govt. and fulfill its agenda within three months.

If AAP runs away , they have no moral right to contest for election.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 10 Dec 2013 14:52

Chinmayanand wrote:Here is what should happen in Delhi and expose Hazrat Kejariwal.
Congress should give its letter of unconditional support to AAP to the Lt. Governor and ask him to call the AAP to form the govt. When the voting happens in House, Congress can vote for Hazrat Kejriwal and prove his majority .I think Congress can force AAP to form the govt. and fulfill its agenda within three months.

If AAP runs away , they have no moral right to contest for election.

BJP should attempt to form the govt, fail honorably and put the congis and the AAP squarely in the hot seat.

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 10 Dec 2013 15:15

Rahul Mehta wrote:Delhi Assembly has 70 MLAs. AAP has 28 MLAs and BJP has 31 MLAs. BJP should ask its 4 MLAs to resign, so now AAP has 28 MLAs, BJP has 27 MLAs and so AAP is largest party. And BJP should promise to abstain. That way AAP can have its CM. In fact, I would say, BJP should ask 15 of its MLAs to resign. That way now Delhi Assembly has 70 - 15 = 55 MLAs, and so AAP with 28 MLAs has clear majority !!

IMO this is necessary to save India in Loksabha-may-2014 elections. It is necessary to show that AK = AAP have no will and/or ability to govern , and their only goal is voting cutting. And only way it can be proved is by making way clear for AAP in delhi Assembly.

Once AK becomes CM, it will become clear to whole nation that AK is pro-Bangladeshi, he opposes Right to Recall Janlokayukt clauses, he opposes RTR-Delhi-Mayor , his promise to deliver 700 liters of water for free was bluff, his promise to reduce electricity unit rate by 25% and yet have 24 hrs electricity was another bluff, he supports hiding the fact that Hindu population has decreased from 82% in 2001 to below 75% in 2011 till loksabha elections end and so forth. IOW, once AK becomes CM, within 3 months, whole nation will be able to see that AK = RaGa with better IQ, and AAP = Congress3.

All in all, Dr Congress did 1000 operations with 800 failures. Dr BJP did 1000 operations and had 600 failures, with Dr NaMo having least failure rate say 30%. And AK has failure score of 0 !! Because Dr AK never did any operations in his life !!! And paid-media projected Dr AK has "best doctor as he has zero failure rate" !!!

And now only way to show that AK will have failure rate of 1000 out of 1000 is to let him run the Delhi state by asking 15 BJP MLAs to resign. IMO, no other option is left to expose him in 4 months. Within 4 months, AK will make such a mess, that he will get zero votes across India in Loksabha-may-2014 elections.

wish i could circulate this around, if there is a suggestion site for bjp pls do post your views there

Virendra · Post by **Virendra** » 10 Dec 2013 15:16

M Joshi wrote:Actually Anna dissing NAMO is not that bad of a thing IMO. 50% of people in Delhi who voted for AAP and also want NAMO at the Centre will have to make a choice now. Either NAMO's BJP or AAP's Kejri.
AAP folks till now have resisted from taking on NAMO directly for the fear of losing votes. If a "Gandhi" from their side will attack NAMO it's only going to hurt them more than anything. NAMO has withstood attacks from all quarters till now & this simpleton with small world-view will be no challenge to him. Hardcore AAP folks will be behind this guy no matter what, but people with dual interests in BJP & AAP will have to draw the line now.

OTOH if re-elctions are going to happen in Delhi, then one thing that is of biggest potent danger to the Delhi BJP is theCongress vote-bank. Congress won 8 seats & got around 20-25% vote share. I fear that in a case of re-election, it is going to be direct fight between AAP & BJP. In that case what will matter most is how this Congi votebank splits up. And to me at least it seems that this vote bank, which includes sizeable minority votes will go heavily towards AAP to defeat BJP. Thus I re-iterate again that BJP should bring it's hihgly motivated cadre from Rajasthan & MP to Delhi in case of re-elections to pump up its existing cadre & visit each & every home to de-brainwash the delusional folks of Delhi.

Joshi ji,

A lot of our first-time, over-enthusiastic and nostalgic voters are naive and get excited very easily. They do not have a developed political aptitude. Many of them would fool themselves into idealist wonderlands. This category overlaps with the WKK and Aman ki Tamasha types.
Problem is, unlike past elections, the polling turnout in semifinal elections have shown that the number of such voters would be quite good in the finals 2014. I have firm belief in their pathological mis-judgement.

Regards,
Virendra

Virendra · Post by **Virendra** » 10 Dec 2013 15:19

Rahul Mehta wrote:Delhi Assembly has 70 MLAs. AAP has 28 MLAs and BJP has 31 MLAs. BJP should ask its 4 MLAs to resign, so now AAP has 28 MLAs, BJP has 27 MLAs and so AAP is largest party. And BJP should promise to abstain. That way AAP can have its CM. In fact, I would say, BJP should ask 15 of its MLAs to resign. That way now Delhi Assembly has 70 - 15 = 55 MLAs, and so AAP with 28 MLAs has clear majority !!

IMO this is necessary to save India in Loksabha-may-2014 elections. It is necessary to show that AK = AAP have no will and/or ability to govern , and their only goal is voting cutting. And only way it can be proved is by making way clear for AAP in delhi Assembly.

Once AK becomes CM, it will become clear to whole nation that AK is pro-Bangladeshi, he opposes Right to Recall Janlokayukt clauses, he opposes RTR-Delhi-Mayor , his promise to deliver 700 liters of water for free was bluff, his promise to reduce electricity unit rate by 25% and yet have 24 hrs electricity was another bluff, he supports hiding the fact that Hindu population has decreased from 82% in 2001 to below 75% in 2011 till loksabha elections end and so forth. IOW, once AK becomes CM, within 3 months, whole nation will be able to see that AK = RaGa with better IQ, and AAP = Congress3.

All in all, Dr Congress did 1000 operations with 800 failures. Dr BJP did 1000 operations and had 600 failures, with Dr NaMo having least failure rate say 30%. And AK has failure score of 0 !! Because Dr AK never did any operations in his life !!! And paid-media projected Dr AK has "best doctor as he has zero failure rate" !!!

And now only way to show that AK will have failure rate of 1000 out of 1000 is to let him run the Delhi state by asking 15 BJP MLAs to resign. IMO, no other option is left to expose him in 4 months. Within 4 months, AK will make such a mess, that he will get zero votes across India in Loksabha-may-2014 elections.

+1. I want the BJP to do this. Is anyone saffron listening ?

kapilrdave · Post by **kapilrdave** » 10 Dec 2013 15:29

Rahul M wrote:kapil, by your exacting standards there is precisely 0 worthy human being in India.

as I am trying to point out,
a) that standard does not exist in real life
b) everyone that doesn't match up to your arbitrary standard does not automatically become a crook
c) you need to cut some slack to people for honest mistakes. blame them for what mistakes they committed and no more. don't blame them for acts of omission or commission you think they committed pursuant to some motives you think they have

I am pointing this out because I know the amount of khujli he caused in cong circles (irrespective of what opinion polls might say. they said a lot in 2009 and 2004 too, none of which worked) and the immense pressure that the govt in turn put on the agencies. for a certain amount of time this was comparable to what they devoted to modi.

these are facts I am aware of, not opinions, not conjectures. and that makes me sanguine about why you are wrong about AH. irrespective of what newspaper articles you present, like I said earlier, I know what I know.
my last post on this.

Rahul da, we have seen AH's antics in the past and we are seeing it in last few days.
See how AH changes his colors like a chameleon.

1. The janlokpal agitation was propped up by RSS but when he started getting popularity in media, knowing media's nature he distanced himself from RSS.

2. He kept promising that he does not support creating a political party during janlokpal. Then kejriwal created his own party but he kept mum.

3. Kejriwal in his delhi campaign says that the janlokpal agitation was 'hindu majority' agitation so he has to approach muslims to which AH keeps silence.

4. A couple of days before the election AH says he has nothing to do with Kejriwal and he doesn't have his regards.

5. On the day of results AH praises kejri and has good wishes for him.

6. And today he bashes modi even though there is no corruption case in his 10 year rule and even though modi's ideas regarding removing corruption are far more practical (and applied) than his own.

Now why did he do #5 and #6? That is because he himself is going on a new fast from today. He wants some limelight for himself. Most likely he want's kejri's support for his fast. He wants to encash the popularity of kejri, just like kejri did to him. I never said he is a crook. I was being charitable by calling him a useful idiot. But after seeing his latest antics I'm starting to believe that he is a crook.

Regarding allowing anti nationals like PB and agnivesh to lead his agitation, there is a reason I asked you the question that would you allow such people around you. The fact is that if you are in public life, if you are an activist, you are expected to behave responsibility and you will be judged by the kind of company you keep. Anna is no nuewbie in this field. He is there for decades and he is bound to know the ideology of other activitsts. Even if he doesn't, he must have common sense to check background of people anyhow - besides PB and agnivesh are well known anti nationals. I'm sure if you started an agitation you would be extremely careful about people around you.

I will try to explain it using an example. See this picture.

Everyone except the Rahul Bose are known anti nationals in this photo. Now what was RB doing with them? We don't even bother to find that out because no one cares of him as long as he does what he does i.e. shoot films. But tomorrow if he starts a NGO (I don't know if he already runs any NGO) or some agitation, everyone will dig into his background and check how is he is associated to TT & co. That is why you have to be careful about your company in public life. Anna is in public life for decades. He is smart enough to know this. In fact he did show the smartness by distancing himself from RSS. He leaned towards naxalites to get more attention. Now he is changing his stand desperately to come back again in limelight. It is clear as daylight. My guess is that someone has convinced him to try and puncture modi's wave. How and for what? I don't know.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 10 Dec 2013 15:38

chetak wrote:BJP should attempt to form the govt, fail honorably and put the congis and the AAP squarely in the hot seat.

If BJP tries that now after all the games that have been played by both sides, AAP will walk out during trust vote allowing BJP to win. Then not allow ONE single work to be done by the BJP till Lok Sabha and run a high decibel MSM supported campaign during Lok sabha on non-performance of the BJP. Do not even consider splitting the AAP.

If BJP resign in the middle citing non-cooperation, AAP will put the blame of running the Assembly and the Gov on BJP, citing the election results and its position on the issue stated clearly after the election results. It will also brand BJP power hungry in trying to grab power when it did not have the mandate. At worst it will look entirely the fault of BJP's lust for power, at best the blame will be divided between BJP and AAP.

Overall, given the clearly stated positions of BJP and AAP as of now, the risk is far higher for the BJP than the potential returns.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 10 Dec 2013 15:39

kapil, I've already made my points and have nothing more to add. in a nutshell,
>> it was never my contention that AH is a clean pabitra tulsi leaf, he did and continues to do many dodgy things
>> in public movements, *everyone* takes shortcuts, by taking help of useful but iffy people. even bjp/modi is looking towards marandi and yeddy, both known corrupt netas. that alone is not enough to judge. the principle of lesser evil and practicality applies. often you can't afford to ignore help from shady quarters. kindly understand this.
by your standard, bjp == cong
>> that does not mean he was an INC plant or was co-opted by them.
he wasn't. that's it !

vina · Post by **vina** » 10 Dec 2013 15:40

Rahul Mehta wrote:Delhi Assembly has 70 MLAs. AAP has 28 MLAs and BJP has 31 MLAs. BJP should ask its 4 MLAs to resign, so now AAP has 28 MLAs, BJP has 27 MLAs and so AAP is largest party. And BJP should promise to abstain. That way AAP can have its CM. In fact, I would say, BJP should ask 15 of its MLAs to resign. That way now Delhi Assembly has 70 - 15 = 55 MLAs, and so AAP with 28 MLAs has clear majority !!

Mehtaji . Brilliant. Truly Chankian. Someone should propose this to the BJP leadership. Let some 15 BJP MLAs resign and give the AAP a shot at power and let the people see for themselves about how "Imaandaar" their economics is.

Gosh. This surely comes from the left field. Yes, let the BJP not just say we wont form govt , and Cong should support AAP. Let AAP get the seat and then expose them hollow and go hammer and tongs at them.

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 10 Dec 2013 15:45

dont you think they would have considered this ???? AAP would probably do the same

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 10 Dec 2013 15:46

Yes pehle AAP .. pehle AAP will be repeated again.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 10 Dec 2013 15:47

congis are making noises they would extend outside support to AAP.

member_20317 · Post by **member_20317** » 10 Dec 2013 15:47

If anyone saffron was listening then BRF would have been their skunkworks.

What Rahul Mehta ji has suggested (i believe in jest and is actually worth a lighter moment) while being smart is very dangerous because it can be shown to the people that BJP is abdicating. BJP further cannot claim that AAP and Congress are poaching because AAP has already pre-empted BJP on that. The public will cry foul.

The gentle challenges is IMO the best way to challenge. Against Congress the exhibition of anger and frustration could have been justified but against AAP it will backfire.

I was trying to understand what kind of emotional connect is present between AK-47 and his supporters. These guys are very emotional and have already made up their minds that corruption is the root cause of all evil in India and that more inspector raj will ensure that no corruption is tolerated. Coincidently some of hte supporters I speak with just throw off the idea of subsidies like they own the treasury. What has been claimed was that AAP will reduce electricity cost by half after an audit of all Discoms. They never can figure out that you do not approach an audit with pre-conceived notions like the auditee is some chor. The very first thing that is taught to auditors is that 'Auditors are watchdogs and not blood hounds'. What if there are legal covenants that despite the increase in possibility of discounts the Discoms may actually be entitled vide some part of agreement o do that. Besides who will bear the cost of 20000 MW installed but unused capacity if not the society that decided for it.

One of the members above has pointed out how the molestion charge could be a trumped up charge. And the lay AAP supporter is raising this in news sites and elsewhere. Reality is what the Congressman has said is - "I'm not sure whether the accused was with Koli as I wasn't there. People are telling me he was with Koli," Dhingan said. That is a very true statement of fact and has been reported all across the media since yesterday night. And the internal lokpal has already decried it as a conspiracy. My take is that it is a hyped up charge but one that actually contains a kernel of truth in it. But these AAP walas will never see anything wrong in this.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 10 Dec 2013 15:55

Dole-nomics: Why AAP is headed down the same hole as Sonia’s NAC

The Aam Aadmi Party (AAP) wants to change the “system” using honesty and probity as its calling cards. However, while it can impact short-term politics by the power of example and idealism, it cannot really change the system on the basis of good intentions alone. In fact, a large chunk of its policies will end up increasing the potential for corruption, not reduce it. This is exactly why the Congress government, advised by a dole-oriented National Advisory Council under Sonia Gandhi, is sinking in corruption and price-rise. Does Arvind Kejriwal want to repeat a bad experiment? An honestly executed bad idea is still a bad idea.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 10 Dec 2013 15:58

pankajs wrote:
chetak wrote:BJP should attempt to form the govt, fail honorably and put the congis and the AAP squarely in the hot seat.
If BJP tries that now after all the games that have been played by both sides, AAP will walk out during trust vote allowing BJP to win. Then not allow ONE single work to be done by the BJP till Lok Sabha and run a high decibel MSM supported campaign during Lok sabha on non-performance of the BJP. Do not even consider splitting the AAP.

If BJP resign in the middle citing non-cooperation, AAP will put the blame of running the Assembly and the Gov on BJP, citing the election results and its position on the issue stated clearly after the election results. It will also brand BJP power hungry in trying to grab power when it did not have the mandate. At worst it will look entirely the fault of BJP's lust for power, at best the blame will be divided between BJP and AAP.

Overall, given the clearly stated positions of BJP and AAP as of now, the risk is far higher for the BJP than the potential returns.

Sirjee,

Not such a bad thing.

If the BJP passes the floor test or is made to pass, then they have a clear run for six months during which no other no trust motion can be brought .

They are through to the 2014 elections and let whatever happens happen then.

vina · Post by **vina** » 10 Dec 2013 16:00

krishnan wrote:dont you think they would have considered this ???? AAP would probably do the same

That they have said so anyways. Elections are due whenever, because no govt formation is possible with this assembly. You can sell it whichever way you want as a lot of R&D and "Tyaag" , "Pyaar for Logoan" , Dilli ke liye Sarkar Chahiye.. etc etc.. Jod Thod nahi karenge, yehi, ek maatra upay hai /whatever, shed lachrymose glycerine tears on TV. rrNDTV and Boorkha Aunty go into orgasmic rapture, SoreDesai and that Sogo-shreekah go ape nuts , all nice TV drama and a giant circus and Kejriwal can't pull out of it without a clear H&D blow and massive credibility damage. That will rule him out for the next round. Give him the poisoned chalice and dare him to drink.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 10 Dec 2013 16:19

ChandraV wrote:
This will not do. We need to fight such things with all our might. It does not matter if you support or oppose AAP. There are some things that just should not be encouraged. Just imagine, a woman makes a statement about you, and you are in the slammer immediately, your life turned upside down. You get out only after a great deal of mental, physical and financial harassment. And then your name is tarnished for good. .

Jyoti Case aka Nirbhaya
Intern Vs Former Justice
Journalist Vs TT
and host of rape related crimes in between.

If AAP came on the promise of probity in public life , this was the last thing expected. If AAP is different party then why they celebrated their victory in traditional goon way like all other parties do. By bursting crackers, taking out victory procession , boozing and breaking bottles on the street and of course entering someone's house and molesting women. That's common behaviour. What's so different about it. MLA or no MLA , he can not get the benefit of doubt. Victor always try to humiliate vanquished by doing such antiques. Of course the MLA himself may not be involved in molestation but Law must take its own course. If he has to be arrested then it should not matter if he is from Tehelka or from AAP.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 10 Dec 2013 16:24

Anna Hazare has started his Fast unto Death for Jan Lok Pal bill.
He is upto his tricks again he has no other work:-- comment by SHQ

panduranghari · Post by **panduranghari** » 10 Dec 2013 16:28

AAp should either form govt or let there be re elections. I hope BJP dont give AAptards the permit to tell voters elsewhere look we will be responsible opposition unlike BJP and Congress have been. This gives them the right to call congress=BJP.

The longer this drags on, who wins?

Atri · Post by **Atri** » 10 Dec 2013 16:34

https://app.box.com/s/754opixup99hfi3v2slu

Happened to read the manifesto of AAP. Somethings are really interesting and I find myself agreeing with - The bit about gram-sabha and giving more power to villages and localities.

Upon closer rethink I found that Modi too speaks of similar federalization of India thereby giving more power to the state governments after creating smaller states. This is basically line of thought of Deendayal Upadhyay and Mahatma Gandhi and Vedas themselves. Why is not this part being highlighted by BJP in their campaign. In principle, it is very dharmik point. Small gram-sabhas and locality sabhas (of 200 house-holds, for example) should be given authority to manage their locality on their own. I have been saying in dracination dhaga for years now and elsewhere before that. Heck, DDU has been saying it for 50 years. Any criticisms?

AAP screws up elsewhere - urdu schools etc, thereby revealing his sickular credentials.

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 10 Dec 2013 16:43

wasnt that what Gram panchayat was about ????

Atri · Post by **Atri** » 10 Dec 2013 16:50

not enough power to them. panchayati raj not implemented completely in India. hence the "luteynization" of polity. all state capitals and district head-quarters have become semi "lutyen-dilli" zone.

had spoken of panchakroshi idea on deracination dhaga years ago, precisely out of this necessity.

panchayat and gram-sabha with complete authority to take decisions about village has been our tradition since Rigveda.. why not implement it now, is beyond me. DDUpadhyay said about it, nanaji deshmukh tried to implement it. BJP should try and do that in their states. OR does it require central legislation?

archan · Post by **archan** » 10 Dec 2013 16:59

"Complete authority to take decisions about the village" - does that include legal/criminal matters?

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 10 Dec 2013 17:02

archan, the main problem is that it's only state govt and a couple of central schemes which co-opt gram sabhas in decision making process, even there they don't usually call the shots in most programs. most major schemes, including central ones spend grant amount through the IAS led system. the IAS/state civil service machinery retains most of the power in terms of finances, who are as you are aware not accountable to the public while the panchayats are starved of power and responsibility.

Atri · Post by **Atri** » 10 Dec 2013 17:06

archan wrote:"Complete authority to take decisions about the village" - does that include legal/criminal matters?

No archan ji.. its mostly administrative/executive matters.

I, for that matter, won't mind villages settling their civil-disputes by Panchayat-type courts. We used to do that for thousands of years anyways. An elected "panchayat" should be given limited legislative powers as well.

of course, criminal matters, we have IPC and other codes for that. that need not be granted to anyone except state-assemblies, parliament or higher courts.

To start another debate, I am also beginning to question the validity of English common-law that we follow. Why should courts have authority to make laws? legislative branch of government should solely be in hands of elected representative..

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 10 Dec 2013 17:10

courts don't actually make laws. what they do is interpret them which has the force of law on subordinate courts. I find nothing illogical in this system. only through court decisions can you have a large enough body of regulations to cover most eventualities.
laws can't and shouldn't cover all possible eventualities in that fashion.

Atri · Post by **Atri** » 10 Dec 2013 17:16

yes, but isn't it against our concept of Sapeksha-dharma? A legal precedent for one case, making it binding for all courts, makes it relatively absolute-dharma.

A legal precedent enforced by talwar judgement case, for example, makes it binding for all courts below to take notice of it. If another case which looks similar (but may not be similar) is wrapped up using this precedent, it becomes but rigid IMO. yes, that would mean more laws by parliament, which is also another pain in the musharraf. Simply too many laws would be eventuality.

too many laws
vs
too many interpretations of relatively small number of laws

is the choice, it seems.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 10 Dec 2013 17:34

That is ever present danger with any laws. To wit 498A. There are specific legislations which have potential for misuse but still enacted as the social evil they try to prevent is far greater and rampant so as not to give any benefit of doubt to alleged perpetrators.

Koli himself may not be involved. But he is in politics and will have to take some brunt of it. His conduct should have been above suspicion at all times. AAP can not claim any leeway in this regard. They are not GOD.

archan · Post by **archan** » 10 Dec 2013 17:35

Yes, gotta be careful of the "he called me a (that word for dalits)", or "I saw him desecrating the Quran" or "I am a witness that he insulted the Prophet" with no other evidence, the person is arrested and automatically assumed to be guilty.

member_20317 · Post by **member_20317** » 10 Dec 2013 17:37

Atri wrote:https://app.box.com/s/754opixup99hfi3v2slu

Happened to read the manifesto of AAP. Somethings are really interesting and I find myself agreeing with - The bit about gram-sabha and giving more power to villages and localities.

Upon closer rethink I found that Modi too speaks of similar federalization of India thereby giving more power to the state governments after creating smaller states. This is basically line of thought of Deendayal Upadhyay and Mahatma Gandhi and Vedas themselves. Why is not this part being highlighted by BJP in their campaign. In principle, it is very dharmik point. Small gram-sabhas and locality sabhas (of 200 house-holds, for example) should be given authority to manage their locality on their own. I have been saying in dracination dhaga for years now and elsewhere before that. Heck, DDU has been saying it for 50 years. Any criticisms?

AAP screws up elsewhere - urdu schools etc, thereby revealing his sickular credentials.

Atri garu, the devil lies in the details. That is why our ancestors said let the man do his work instead of mesmerizing him with the other guys work. I was trying to figure out the JLP Bill. There are so many variants that any sane man would have his head spinning in a few minutes. In principle JLP is good. It gives you an American type DA system with any active guy doing this and that. But what actually comes out of the fluff is a dangerous business.

Anyhow all this is only for show. For all we know Kejriwal will have a nukkad sabha in jantar-mantar tomorrow where his enthusiastic supporters will beseech him to save delhi from constitutional lawlessness. His highness the Kejriwal will then allow Congress to support him from outside 'unconditionally

'. And Sonia Gandhi will thank Kejriwal for saving Delhi from the evil within Congress. Rahul Gandhi will ask Anna ji and Kejriwal to unite for the betterment of the whole country to roll out the 'experiment' just in time for the GE-14.

Bichitra phal enough

Takes a ka_ina to know a kam_,a.

member_20317 · Post by **member_20317** » 10 Dec 2013 17:54

Atri wrote:yes, but isn't it against our concept of Sapeksha-dharma? A legal precedent for one case, making it binding for all courts, makes it relatively absolute-dharma.

A legal precedent enforced by talwar judgement case, for example, makes it binding for all courts below to take notice of it. If another case which looks similar (but may not be similar) is wrapped up using this precedent, it becomes but rigid IMO. yes, that would mean more laws by parliament, which is also another pain in the musharraf. Simply too many laws would be eventuality.

too many laws
vs
too many interpretations of relatively small number of laws

is the choice, it seems.

Legal precedent is a pretty reasonable dharmsangat doctrine. It serves the purpose well that people in similar situations are asked to bear similar responsibilities and people in different situations are not forced into a responsibility of conduct that is not in compliance with the conduct matrix acceptable to the public at large.

Also.

The choice IMO is between : Law and Justice both in the question of law usually dealt with at the highest level as well as at the transactional level between the people. Will try to elaborate at an opportune time but please do give a thought to it in this manner too.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 10 Dec 2013 18:04

atri ji, precedent applies only when the legal factors are same in essentials for both cases. if the contexts are similar why would it be against sapekhsha dharma ? the whole point of legality in any country is to draw common threads from similar incidents. I am sure you don't want judges to act like little despots and judge on the basis of their whim ?

the concept of court of record is to promote consistency in the legal system. far from creating a multitude of laws this system actually prevents the need for creating a multitude of laws. unless you have a better system in mind this is the best we can think of at the moment.

the talwar case is hardly an indictment of this system. firstly, CBI courts are not very high up on the seniority pole. secondly, even if this case is used as precedent in lower courts, so would a gazillion other good judgement cases. the problem is with ensuring better legal procedure.

Rahul Mehta · Post by **Rahul Mehta** » 10 Dec 2013 18:45

My post on Delhi Assembly elections and its impact on NaMo becoming PM --- http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 7#p1555587

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 10 Dec 2013 18:52

aap's maturity showing by not supporting bjp.. sheesh! wtf do they want after not securing even a largest vote party? the problems of being tech guy? i thought, if they had anything constructive, they would participate in a clean democracy.. well, a repoll should end their journey.

modi should list out the plans now. mr oppty knocking on the dilli doors for 2/3rds majority.

Rahul Mehta · Post by **Rahul Mehta** » 10 Dec 2013 19:06

Rahul Mehta wrote:Delhi Assembly has 70 MLAs. AAP has 28 MLAs and BJP has 31 MLAs. BJP should ask its 4 MLAs to resign, so now AAP has 28 MLAs, BJP has 27 MLAs and so AAP is largest party. And BJP should promise to abstain. That way AAP can have its CM. In fact, I would say, BJP should ask 15 of its MLAs to resign. That way now Delhi Assembly has 70 - 15 = 55 MLAs, and so AAP with 28 MLAs has clear majority !!

krishnan wrote:dont you think they would have considered this ???? AAP would probably do the same

If BJP gives away 15 seats, then BJP can say "AAP has unvialble philosophy, and we want to convince voters that he is bluffing by giving AAP a chance", in good proper language. Whereas , if AAP MLAs resign, then they will appear as "running away from field" and that their whole promise of "brave new world was fake". BJP has Gujarat, MP etc to show. One state less is no loss for BJP. But AK has nothing real to show. So if AK walks away from first oppurtunity given to him, then it will prove that he himself has no faith in his theory. And that will ensure he gets zero votes in may-2014 elections.

BJP challenges AAP to form government, fulfil 'unrealistic promises'
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/new ... 140945.cms

AK will refuse to accept the challenge and cite a valid cause "see , BJP\Congress will not let us run Govt by creating onstacles at every stage in Assembly as we will depend on them for majority". But if 15 BJP MLAs resign, then AAP will have 28/55 majority, and then AK will be left with no excuse. And within 2 months after AK forms govt, almost each Minister will go corrupt by busload. Forget BJP Ministers, these AAPians will put Congress to shame. And thus AK will get zero middle class votes in loksabha-may-2014.

Virendra · Post by **Virendra** » 10 Dec 2013 19:15

BJP challenges AAP to form government, fulfil 'unrealistic promises'
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/new ... 140945.cms

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 10 Dec 2013 19:16

Any anarchist should not be given any elbow room to play selectively.

The only way these pseudo leftists are able to do anything is pseudo secularism, otherwise it becomes battle of proving selectively secular first to be called secular enough by pseudo leftists and media fecade.

In an independent country that shouldn't be an option .

archan · Post by **archan** » 10 Dec 2013 19:19

What happens to a constituency if a MLA resigns?

Dilbu · Post by **Dilbu** » 10 Dec 2013 19:20

As the resident anti jinx witch doctor I think there should be regular anti jinx bhajan for the next 6 months in this dhaga to ward off evil. So if you find me doing

once in a while in this dhaga out of sync with the rest of the posts, admins pliss not to baarish hellphyrr on me.
BJP will lose onlee.

NaMo will lose onlee.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 10 Dec 2013 19:20

by-poll will be scheduled.