Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 11 Dec 2013 21:24

And also removing big bureaucratic apparatus attached to it for collection. Saves more money. But how do we get it to save it?

Atri · Post by **Atri** » 11 Dec 2013 21:25

chaanakya wrote:
Narayana Rao wrote:GATKARI ANNOUNCED BJP VISION 2025 MAY PROPOSE REMOVAL OF INCOME TAX, SALES TAX, EXCISE TAX.

1 OR 2 % BANKING TRANSACTION TAX WITH 1000 AND 500 NOTES ABOLISHED.

BYE
BYE
Mafia, khejiri, trs, sp/bsp, dmk, tmc, jdu, bjd, and the rest of gangs.
So what will b e the source of revenue? Expenditure Tax?

http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 94#p632894

Please go through this post made long long ago in galaxy far far away.

1-2% transaction tax on every transaction routed through bank above an particular amount (say Rs 2000 or 5000). Couple that wil removal of 1000 and 500 rupee note (I advocate removal of 100 rupee note as well), people are going to find it extremely cumbersome to do cash transactions. All other taxes (except for import-export related tax) are removed. much less babudom.. No IT dept, no IRS..

India will have to absorb the shock of digesting all the fake 1000 and 500 rupee notes which are now in circulation. But once that is done, it will be easier.

Zee news reporting it here now - http://zeenews.india.com/news/nation/bj ... 96098.html

If they declare this, that will really up the ante.. haha, dienasty will scramble to do something about the money parked elsewhere.

Atri · Post by **Atri** » 11 Dec 2013 21:28

chaanakya wrote:And also removing big bureaucratic apparatus attached to it for collection. Saves more money. But how do we get it to save it?

banking on inherent Yindoo trait saar - save OR invest for rainy day is teaching since vedic times.

read about it more here - http://www.arthakranti.org/proposal

Was fortunate to meet this rishi like man - Anil Bokil of Aurangabad, Maharashtra.

Spoke so clearly about three purusharthas and ways of achieving them.

heard similar thoughts by Anil Bokil and later in totally different context from Parag tope in his ORL.

The Purushartha trayi - Dharma-Artha-Kaama: Bokil speaks for ways of living principled-prosperous-peaceful life. Parag Tope ji speaks of judicial freedom, economic freedom, personal freedom in his ORL.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 11 Dec 2013 21:29

disha wrote:^^ If that is the case, GREAT NEWS.

Removal of Sales Tax and Excise Tax is the biggest step. It will take away 90% of the mafia. <- I am all for it. Sales/VAT should just go away.

Of course, if doing away with IT and just doing banking transaction - and generating enough revenues - that will be the biggest thing!

I think just the opposite. Work should not be taxed. The more one works and earns, the more, in fact all, he should keep.

What should be raised is Sales Tax. All consumption should be taxed, except the essentials for survival. Healthy economy and thus sales is a byproduct of state's work in ensuring social peace and stability and providing common infrastructure. Use of the market needs to be taxed.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 11 Dec 2013 21:30

wow is this serious? or a rumor at this time?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 11 Dec 2013 21:32

I bet RVaidya is behind that tax and demonitization bomb!

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 11 Dec 2013 21:36

Consumption tax or transaction tax is not a new idea. PC also toyed with it and reflected in Share transaction Tax. But he could not remove income tax etc. This works on a different paradigm and hopefully BJP would have worked out all details before announcing it. May be Dr J. Bhagawati can help.

Atri · Post by **Atri** » 11 Dec 2013 21:38

ramana wrote:I bet RVaidya is behind that tax and demonitization bomb!

No.. It is Anil Bokil of Aurangabad.. He has been saying this for 7 years now. Heck I have been saying it here for past 4-5 years.. LKA did not agree to bring this in 2009. He then joined Rajiv Dikshit who later introduced him to Ramdev baba, S.Gurumurthy. Parallel, he met Bhagwat of sangh.

Moment ramdev baba started speaking of removal of higher denomination notes, I knew Bokil has implanted his ideas.

I personally, upon interaction with him, rate him at par with Rajiv Malhotra. What RM is for Dharma, Bokil is for Artha.

Bharatiya Janata Party favours abolition of income, sales, excise tax

New Delhi: BJP on Wednesday favoured abolition of income, sales and excise tax and the party may include it in its vision document to be unveiled ahead of General elections next year.

Former BJP president Nitin Gadkari, who is in-charge of preparing the party's vision document 'India Vision 2025', said that the party was presently deliberating the matter.

"We were talking about tax and although we have not decided as yet but a good presentation came before us. There is a suggestion of complete abolition of Income, Sales and Excise tax," he said, addressing a function on political agenda of political parties.

He said that the total revenue of the country is Rs 14 lakh crore and 1.5 lakh bank branches are operating in the country presently.

"If we abolish these taxes and if we apply around 1 or 1.5 per cent of expenditure or transaction tax, then we will get revenue to the tune of around Rs 40,000 lakh crore. So those 3.5 lakh people who are using becons of various colours now, they will not be required anymore as no tribunals or commissioners will be required," he said.

"So I think along with transparency, there should be time bound result oriented administration coupled with right way of economic reforms and if it so happens, then the 1.5 lakh banks operating now will become 10 lakhs. There is another suggestion of doing away with Rs 500 and Rs 1000 notes..We are deliberating on these proposals as we want transperancy..." Gadkari said.

He said that he has interacted with 400-450 people already and the document is expected to come out in a month's time.

They are still not committing to this idea, for some reasons. It is not finalized, but they are thinking over it.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 11 Dec 2013 21:46

It is better than halving the electricity bill in Delhi.

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 11 Dec 2013 21:51

Do you know that Nithin Gatkari is the one who implemented Zero based budget for MH state long back? He is quit capable man.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 11 Dec 2013 21:52

Goes well the fact of these govt dept being dens of corruption. A good posting in it, sales or excise commissioner
is the dream of officers. Posh house, gold 2kg, plots fall like raindrops.

Atri · Post by **Atri** » 11 Dec 2013 21:54

here is his latest video.. explains economics and arthakranti proposal in very simple words..

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 11 Dec 2013 21:55

Atri wrote:
ramana wrote:I bet RVaidya is behind that tax and demonitization bomb!
No.. It is Anil Bokil of Aurangabad.. He has been saying this for 7 years now. Heck I have been saying it here for past 4-5 years.. LKA did not agree to bring this in 2009. He then joined Rajiv Dikshit who later introduced him to Ramdev baba, S.Gurumurthy. Parallel, he met Bhagwat of sangh.

Moment ramdev baba started speaking of removal of higher denomination notes, I knew Bokil has implanted his ideas.

I personally, upon interaction with him, rate him at par with Rajiv Malhotra. What RM is for Dharma, Bokil is for Artha.

Bharatiya Janata Party favours abolition of income, sales, excise tax

New Delhi: BJP on Wednesday favoured abolition of income, sales and excise tax and the party may include it in its vision document to be unveiled ahead of General elections next year.

Former BJP president Nitin Gadkari, who is in-charge of preparing the party's vision document 'India Vision 2025', said that the party was presently deliberating the matter.

"We were talking about tax and although we have not decided as yet but a good presentation came before us. There is a suggestion of complete abolition of Income, Sales and Excise tax," he said, addressing a function on political agenda of political parties.

He said that the total revenue of the country is Rs 14 lakh crore and 1.5 lakh bank branches are operating in the country presently.

"If we abolish these taxes and if we apply around 1 or 1.5 per cent of expenditure or transaction tax, then we will get revenue to the tune of around Rs 40,000 lakh crore. So those 3.5 lakh people who are using becons of various colours now, they will not be required anymore as no tribunals or commissioners will be required," he said.

"So I think along with transparency, there should be time bound result oriented administration coupled with right way of economic reforms and if it so happens, then the 1.5 lakh banks operating now will become 10 lakhs. There is another suggestion of doing away with Rs 500 and Rs 1000 notes..We are deliberating on these proposals as we want transperancy..." Gadkari said.

He said that he has interacted with 400-450 people already and the document is expected to come out in a month's time.
They are still not committing to this idea, for some reasons. It is not finalized, but they are thinking over it.

This is the arthkranthi tax collection scheme. I feel it will be a game changer if implemented properly.

member_20317 · Post by **member_20317** » 11 Dec 2013 21:58

Atri garu, arthakranti site has no contact details for Anil Bokil but has a long list of even more unknown set of people. I had not read these proposals but could be something. I was under the belief that the Arthkranti was some sort of book. Thanks for the link though.

And I doubt if there would be any shock in absorbing the initial shock of digesting all the fake 1000 and 500 rupee notes. The shock has already been taken full up.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 11 Dec 2013 22:11

http://www.arthakranti.org/proposal/individual-benefits

simple explanation.

i would like to have more details on the people behind this scheme and proper case studies on:
1. implementation plan and how it would be rolled out.
2. effect on various parts of economy (some detailed number crunching)
3. timeframe

i personally dont like the anything above rs 50 be e-commerce. its impractical.
i spend 150-200 rs in autos on one way from time to time. each auto will require an e-reader or a central system to collect payments.
similarly, how will my colleagues who smoke pay for their cig packets at local tin dabba shops (giving an example of a practical issue)..

the amount has to be higher. say rs 500.

and also, how will corporate india respond. too disruptive?

also powerful people. many bigwigs have stake in parallel system and would be loath to give up their autonomy for a belief in govt system.

Atri · Post by **Atri** » 11 Dec 2013 22:15

Karan ji,

Anything above 2000 Rupees will be e-commerce.. not 50 rupees. below this amount (2000 is an arbitrary figure), cash transaction allowed.

above that amount, 2% transaction tax.

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 11 Dec 2013 22:43

Chances are it will be some variation of the present arthakranti scheme. Either way it will be 100X better than the tax scheme that India has now. Modi is probably using schemes like this to rope in national and international business houses.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 11 Dec 2013 22:49

atri ji thanks, 2000 rs is good enough.

another issue, i guess, is what corporate india thinks of it. that will probably also impact BJP response. be very hard to implement this idea if market is against it.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 11 Dec 2013 22:50

this also has the potential to KILL that stasi/KGB jan lokpal idea dead.

hate the idea of any additional agency deciding how much folks should be paying etc based on some committee of their "civil society" betters.

this might also just destroy the entire parallel economy.

how will people escape tax or do stuff in black, if higher currency notes are stopped.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 11 Dec 2013 23:09

Arjun wrote: An elaboration of my views out here, in case it is of interest: http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 4#p1555464

In my opinion your words are really elitist, and displays disdain for humans in general.

I can argue with a Mullah, EJ, a Paki better than my parents. I can argue with a Hindu priest better than them. I can equally converse with an atheist, theist and agnostic or even the Dharmic better then them. I can use logic and rational language better than them. They are more superstitious than me. I can be discerning and see the schemes of politicians, bureaucrats, diplomats and countries. Heck, I can create conspiracy theories too from thin air or based on flimsy grounds

But in no way do I have a low opinion of them, because I understand their point of view. They are what they are, because of their time and circumstances. And they are better than me in so many ways. And they vote for BJP

Now consider millions of such parents in India, who are products of their time, place and circumstances. To you what seems a rational argument might not sound a rational argument from their perspective of fears and desires. And India is filled with billions of such people. If you cannot understand them, then how are you going to effect a change? Brute Force? Or by ridiculing and insulting them? Not my way. Sure there are people whom we would want label morons and idiots. But thinking low of the bulk?

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 11 Dec 2013 23:12

Atri: I have not seen the video yet. So pardon me for asking a simple question. Even Kautilya prescribes taxes as revenues. So by abolishing taxes (or the majority of them), how does a state/country get revenues?

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 11 Dec 2013 23:14

Karan M wrote:this also has the potential to KILL that stasi/KGB jan lokpal idea dead.

hate the idea of any additional agency deciding how much folks should be paying etc based on some committee of their "civil society" betters.

this might also just destroy the entire parallel economy.

how will people escape tax or do stuff in black, if higher currency notes are stopped.

I agree. There is no need for this jan lokpal bill. If we implement a proper taxation scheme, reform our banking and judicial sector, and reform our intelligence there will be minimal incentive for corruption. The problem is these topi and jaru buffoons cant do any real thinking. They just do what congress does which is to create another agency.

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 11 Dec 2013 23:15

SwamyG wrote:Atri: I have not seen the video yet. So pardon me for asking a simple question. Even Kautilya prescribes taxes as revenues. So by abolishing taxes (or the majority of them), how does a state/country get revenues?

Bank transaction tax.

http://www.arthakranti.org/proposal

VikramS · Post by **VikramS** » 12 Dec 2013 00:02

Gold will become the currency for black market transactions. Much heavier to carry than notes, but still more compact. But this is about high rollers, not the aam-admi.

But this is the right step to end counterfeiting, and foreign disruption in Indian economy.

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 12 Dec 2013 00:06

VikramS wrote:Gold will become the currency for black market transactions. Much heavier to carry than notes, but still more compact. But this is about high rollers, not the aam-admi.

But this is the right step to end counterfeiting, and foreign disruption in Indian economy.

How? Where is the need for black money transactions when there is effective financial monitoring, boost in savings rate, and effectively almost no taxes? This is about the aam-admi.

KLP Dubey · Post by **KLP Dubey** » 12 Dec 2013 00:06

Karan M wrote:Kejriwal has several friends, many of them in the US, who all contribute and give him Rs.25,000 every month for a living so that he can continue his fight against corruption.

“Rest of the expense is borne by my wife, who is an additional commissioner in income-tax department. I have no other source of income and I do not take any money from Indian Against Corruption,” Kejriwal said. He and his wife Sunita have two children—daughter Harshita and son Pulkit.

In other words, a freeloader. Mooching off friends and family for his personal existence, and mooching on public money for running in elections, training in civil services etc, and giving nothing in return except promises of free bijli and paani.

I thought this thread is on the topic of Mr Modi versus the "dynasty". It seems discussion of Kejriwal and AAP has hijacked the thread under the pretext that AAP is a "Congress B-team" (it is not). It is simply a bunch of buffoons who have no idea what they are doing. These guys are obsessed with Lokpal as if it will solve the problem of corruption. Why not then create other equally necessary "pals" like Dharampal, Seemapal, Nadipal, Vayupal? The responsible citizens of Dilli should bring a lawsuit against these jokers for wastage of public money and time.

Corruption can only be solved through a combination of strengthening the existing institutions and more importantly changing the mindset of the Indians based upon awareness of our indigenous ethics. Only one party is capable of doing so, and no prizes for guessing which one.

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 12 Dec 2013 00:57

once you agree on the basic concept of 'those who can afford more, should pay more', then there is no other way than to have a slab based income tax regime. removing that wholesale and making it a sales tax regime would put more burden on those who make less.

it is not easy to define what is a 'basic necessity' and what is a 'luxury' item as that can quickly become a very subjective argument. for ex, beer is a basic necessity to me.

of course if you are from the pov of 'taxation is theft' and 'everyone on their own and i pay my way and only my way' then that is a different argument to have.

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 12 Dec 2013 01:06

Removing Income Tax completely is a bad idea. Indirect taxes like Sales Tax hurt the poor and middle class a lot more than the rich. You can't increase them beyond a point. "Transaction tax" sounds good in theory. But considering the fact that most transactions in India are still made in Cash, one wonders how effective it will be. It will drive even more people towards making the transactions in black instead of white to escape the tax. Merely removing high denomination notes will not curb this.

These radical schemes are best left for much later when we have run out of all other ideas. Right now, the BJP just needs to concentrate on improving infrastructure to reduce supply side bottlenecks, incentivising exporters, reducing red tape to make it easy to start and grow a business in the country, etc. And also roll back the wanton spending schemes that the NAC loonies came up with.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 12 Dec 2013 01:13

Nitish kumar should read this......

Demise of the Third Front mirage

Rashmikant Patel 11 Dec 2013

The complete routing of the Indian National Congress (INC) in the four State Assembly elections kept everyone so engaged and so thrilled that everyone missed to notice an important message buried in the election result. It is the elimination of the so-called Third Front parties. My statement might look surprising given the spectacular entry to Indian politics by Aam Adami Party, which became a big story that even downplayed the great BJP victory in other States. Seeing a party that can pose a challenge to the BJP, the enthusiast and opportunist Nitish Kumar declared that whenever people are given options other than the BJP or the Congress, they choose the third option. Sharad Pawar was not far behind praising the newcomer in a quick hurry to keep remaining in power after seeing the decimation of the Congress.

Nitish and Mulayam would easily try to highlight and mislead the nation by such wrong analogy that suits their purpose. The truth is that barring the Aam Adami Party, all other parties have been reduced to almost nothing. This includes the BSP that normally bags 10 to 15 per cent votes in many States. Both the BJP and the Congress seem to have missed this excellent outcome that actually shut the door of so-called Third Front that keeps appearing during elections. Let us look it by numbers in terms of seats. The others down by two seats in Delhi, nine seats in Madhya Pradesh, 14 seats in Rajashtan and one seat in Chhattisgarh. The BSP alone lost nine seats and now, have just four seats as compared to 13 seats it had earlier. Similar to what Sheila Dikshit has faced in New Delhi. The vote share shows even bigger consolidations towards national parties.

In Chattisgarh, both the BJP and the Congress gained two per cent and three per cent votes respectively, and the others got five per cent less votes. In Rajasthan, the BJP had 12 per cent positive vote swing, but interestingly most of those swing votes came from the others and not from the Congress. The Congress has just lost three per cent votes, whereas the others lost three per cent votes. In Madhya Pradesh, both the BJP and the Congress added significant amount of votes at the cost of others. The BJP got eight per cent more votes and the Congress got five per cent more votes. The others lost 13 per cent of the votes to the BJP and the Congress.

The exception, of course is, Delhi Assembly. The Congress lost whopping 35 per cent of the vote share to the BJP and the AAP. Here too, the others lost two per cent of the votes like other States. Modi baiters and BJP baiters are ready to embrace AAP wholeheartedly with a hope of emergence of a Third Front. The key thing that Nitish and others are missing is that the votes for AAP are not for third option, they are the votes for a different kind of politics that the AAP has presented. It doesn’t mean that at other places people will choose regional parties. The AAP is an unconventional party and there is no way the voters would like to waste vote on opportunist and traditional parties like JD(U) which are worse than the Congress in terms of misgovernance and corruption.

What is the reason behind this complete elimination of other parties? Mostly, it should be attributed to one person – Narendra Modi. The emergence of Narendra Modi at the national politics and the resulting high-level excitement across the country and seeing the election as a direct fight between two principal parties is one of key reasons. Narendra Modi’s huge rallies are making it even more obvious to the people across the country. The TV studios are adding the fuel to by having debates around Narendra Modi every now and then making it as Narendra Modi verses others fight nationwide. The role of social media is also instrumental for such a great awareness. It is also important to note that all the three States – MP, Rajasthan and Chhatisgarh – are having significant rural population. This is an indication that even at the remotest place of India the reach of TV and the social media is quite significant and they are now more aware of national issues and do vote accordingly.

It is quite evident that the voters of India have rejected the regional players even in the State elections. The general election is known to have more inclination of voters toward the national parties, so the vote per cent for only national parties – the BJP and the Congress is expected to go up and it will be a clear mandate in the favour of the BJP considering the momentum across the country. For regional parties to retain even their existing vote base is going to be an up-hill task. In the coming days, many would rush to ally with the BJP before it is too late.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 12 Dec 2013 01:27

nachiket wrote:Removing Income Tax completely is a bad idea. Indirect taxes like Sales Tax hurt the poor and middle class a lot more than the rich.

Lets take a case of Rs 10L salary.
Well even a flat rate of 2% on (Say) 10L (assuming entire salary is spent) is still better than 30% on 10L as current as taxes, and only 7L available for spending.

Sales tax might need to be exempt for those below a certain earning limit perhaps, but right now if they purchase white goods/services, they are still paying (hidden) taxes anyhow..

This proposal would do three things:

1. Raise savings (since more money is available). Banks need less bailout from Gubermint
2. Raise consumption (since more money is available)
3. Increase tax base across country to all those who currently avoid paying taxes (disproportionate burden is from salaried employees aka middle class, who have TDS). But of course, the numbers have to rise to make up and exceed the ~28% difference from existing base.

Downside
1. More spending power --> inflation in prices of existing goods and services. That can't be helped.
2. More investment in spending methods/payment channels. Can't happen overnight.

You can't increase them beyond a point. "Transaction tax" sounds good in theory. But considering the fact that most transactions in India are still made in Cash, one wonders how effective it will be.

So it will have to move to cards/e-commerce.

It will drive even more people towards making the transactions in black instead of white to escape the tax. Merely removing high denomination notes will not curb this.

But how will they pay? They will have to register transactions above a certain point, and what will they barter with?

These radical schemes are best left for much later when we have run out of all other ideas. Right now, the BJP just needs to concentrate on improving infrastructure to reduce supply side bottlenecks, incentivising exporters, reducing red tape to make it easy to start and grow a business in the country, etc. And also roll back the wanton spending schemes that the NAC loonies came up with.

Agree that iterative schemes are safe.

But can't see the radical downside to the above proposal.

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 12 Dec 2013 02:17

Karanji,

you're forgetting that with a more business friendly environment you will have more competitors in the market. This will help drive down costs mitigating the inflation effect.

Shanmukh · Post by **Shanmukh** » 12 Dec 2013 02:22

Modi's view and what it means to the Delhi elites

http://www.niticentral.com/2013/12/11/w ... 67614.html

M R Venkatesh is a rather incisive writer.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 12 Dec 2013 03:11

^wow! that is a fantastic article

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 12 Dec 2013 03:35

RoyG wrote:Karanji,

you're forgetting that with a more business friendly environment you will have more competitors in the market. This will help drive down costs mitigating the inflation effect.

yaar i onlee see prices rising every time i eat out or buy something. no dropping onlee despite many options.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 12 Dec 2013 03:37

nageshks wrote:Modi's view and what it means to the Delhi elites

http://www.niticentral.com/2013/12/11/w ... 67614.html

M R Venkatesh is a rather incisive writer.

Scary article but based on everything of what we have seen, probably pretty close to reality in several ways.

The home page of the India International Centre (IIC) website declares: “Considered one of the country’s premier cultural institutions, the India International Centre is a non-Government institution widely regarded as a place where statesmen, diplomats, policy-makers, intellectuals, scientists, jurists, writers, artists and members of civil society meet to initiate the exchange of new ideas and knowledge in the spirit of international cooperation.”

compare with:

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/tejpa ... -/1200045/

Called 'Prufrock', the club, in Tejpal's own words, aims to be "a vibrant cultural space, where a highly accomplished, eclectic community of select urban Indians can meet and engage in an atmosphere of great intimacy with eminent people who make and shape the world".
"All this over fine drinks and exquisite cuisines created by a celebrity chef," Tejpal said in an email invitation to prospective members.

IIC = Govt Prufrock.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 12 Dec 2013 03:46

>>The present Life Trustees are: Professor M.G.K. Menon, Dr. Kapila Vatsyayan, Shri Soli J. Sorabjee, Shri N.N. Vohra and Justice B.N. Srikrishna. Each Trustee is an eminent authority in his/her field, bringing years of experience to the governing of the Centre. Every two years, two Trustees are elected in addition to the Life Trustees, to the Board.

Check this out, this is probably the birthplace of committees to beat committees. Check out the folks
http://www.iicdelhi.nic.in/?q=node/71

Pretty swank, (cue vina unhappy at dilli billis)

http://www.iicdelhi.nic.in/?q=node/219
http://www.iicdelhi.nic.in/?q=node/55

Naaice...paid for by junta tax onlee? MNREGA for poor, IIC for disbursers.

disha · Post by **disha** » 12 Dec 2013 04:12

Karan M wrote: Naaice...paid for by junta tax onlee? MNREGA for poor, IIC for disbursers.

Paid by the natives, for the natives - a self flagellation going on today:

12 December 2013 At 18:30 SEMINAR HALL II & III, KAMALADEVI COMPLEX
An Unequal Nation: Citizenship and Democracy in India
Speaker: Shri Harsh Mander, social worker and writer...

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 12 Dec 2013 04:17

Rahul M wrote:<wikilink to Jana gaNa mana snipped>

Here is an extract from Wiki

wikipedia wrote: Moreover, Tagore was hailed as a patriot who wrote other songs too apart from "Jana gana Mana" lionizing the Indian independence movement.He renounced his knighthood in protest against the 1919 Jallianwala Bagh Massacre. The Knighthood i.e. the title of 'Sir' was conferred on him by the same King George V after receiving the Nobel Prize in Literature for "Gitanjali" from the government of Sweden. Two of Tagore's more politically charged compositions, "Chitto Jetha Bhayshunyo" ("Where the Mind is Without Fear" :Gitanjali Poem#35) and "Ekla Chalo Re" ("If They Answer Not to Thy Call, Walk Alone"), gained mass appeal, with the latter favoured by Gandhi and Nettie.

Who is Nettie? Is it Netaji SCB's name but got vandalized by some [white] paki? If somebody can verify, I will correct it.

Also, I will verify reports of the events from other Indian newspapers of Dec 28, 1911. It would be nice to go to our excellent news paper library which is supposed to be largest newspaper library in the world. A decade back, when they still had the hard copies in the stacks, I was able to hold in my hand the very first edition of The Times (of London). But now most are digitized images and can be viewed with limited searching capability on a Microfilm reader attached to a large screen. Anybody has a list of newspapers to look into?

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 12 Dec 2013 04:33

Karan M

Look at the membership rules - need two current members to recommend blah blah blah. Looks like a brown sahib setup in the mold of "... and Indians not allowed" of yore.

http://www.iicdelhi.nic.in/?q=node/101

ashashi · Post by **ashashi** » 12 Dec 2013 06:10

Thanks Atri for the video.
Proposal has many valid points, but.....

it may not be practical in the long run. In USA for example, we pay about 1/3rd of the earning in various income taxes. And on top of that, we pay about 5-7% sales taxes. For someone living on pay check to pay check, the total itaxes amount to about 40%. If USA moves to transaction tax system, the tax revenues would drop significantly, since there is virtually no parallel economy here which would bring in additional revenue base.

The initial implementation would give the Indian economy a big boost because the black money would be converted into white. But, once the standard of living and the economy catches up to the new reality, the proposed 2% transaction taxes would be insufficient to support the national and local budgets. It might have to be increased to much higher figure depending upon how much expenditures the govt. takes on. 10%-15% transaction tax may not be unrealistic. Once we get to that stage, money lending becomes an unprofitable business. Supposed, I need to borrow Rs. 20,000 for immediate expenses which will be paid off in installments in 3-4 months. Now, I have to pay the transaction tax of say 10% to borrow and another 10% transaction tax when I repay the money, in addition to the interest rate. Suddenly, Kabuliwala becomes an attractive option.